1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:21,556 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I want to let you know that Rick has 2 00:00:21,556 --> 00:00:25,596 Speaker 1: a new podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five 3 00:00:25,676 --> 00:00:28,556 Speaker 1: years of recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to 4 00:00:28,596 --> 00:00:31,716 Speaker 1: talk to more than just musicians, so on his new podcast, 5 00:00:31,836 --> 00:00:37,636 Speaker 1: he'll be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people, anyone 6 00:00:37,796 --> 00:00:40,876 Speaker 1: that Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe to 7 00:00:40,876 --> 00:00:46,036 Speaker 1: Tetragrammaton wherever you listen to podcasts. You Two's The Edge 8 00:00:46,076 --> 00:00:49,156 Speaker 1: is one of only a handful of guitarists as famous 9 00:00:49,196 --> 00:00:52,876 Speaker 1: as his band's frontman. The Edge and Bono have been 10 00:00:52,876 --> 00:00:56,316 Speaker 1: together as You two since their early days as teenagers 11 00:00:56,316 --> 00:00:59,876 Speaker 1: in Dublin. They started the band in nineteen seventy six, 12 00:00:59,956 --> 00:01:02,236 Speaker 1: and in the years since they've become one of the 13 00:01:02,356 --> 00:01:05,596 Speaker 1: biggest rock bands in the world, releasing a consistent stream 14 00:01:05,636 --> 00:01:11,236 Speaker 1: of hit records decade after decade or decade. Nearing their 15 00:01:11,476 --> 00:01:14,756 Speaker 1: fifty year anniversary as a band, You two just released 16 00:01:14,836 --> 00:01:19,556 Speaker 1: another album, Songs of Surrender. It's a forty track collection 17 00:01:19,756 --> 00:01:23,556 Speaker 1: of reimagined and stripped down songs that span the entirety 18 00:01:23,596 --> 00:01:27,276 Speaker 1: of You Two's catalog. The band is also preparing for 19 00:01:27,316 --> 00:01:30,396 Speaker 1: the Las Vegas residency that starts this fall at the 20 00:01:30,476 --> 00:01:35,076 Speaker 1: Venetians MSG sphere. On today's episode, Rick Rubin talks to 21 00:01:35,116 --> 00:01:38,916 Speaker 1: the Edge about his theory behind the band's longevity. Plus 22 00:01:38,916 --> 00:01:41,956 Speaker 1: he shares stories about writing YouTube classics like New Year's 23 00:01:42,076 --> 00:01:45,156 Speaker 1: Day and Where the Streets Have No Name. The Edge 24 00:01:45,196 --> 00:01:47,916 Speaker 1: also explains why Bono singing at the top of his 25 00:01:48,076 --> 00:01:54,476 Speaker 1: range can be a bit much. This is broken record 26 00:01:54,836 --> 00:01:58,796 Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's 27 00:01:58,876 --> 00:02:03,396 Speaker 1: Rick Ruben's conversation with The Edge. So, how the hell 28 00:02:03,436 --> 00:02:07,036 Speaker 1: are you, Rick? I'm feeling pretty good. How about you? Yeah, 29 00:02:07,156 --> 00:02:12,236 Speaker 1: I must say, cannot complain congratulations on the new album, 30 00:02:12,436 --> 00:02:18,316 Speaker 1: Thank You. It's radical, it's radical. It struck us that 31 00:02:18,676 --> 00:02:21,796 Speaker 1: there's very few acts you could do this, which is 32 00:02:22,796 --> 00:02:28,076 Speaker 1: have a serious look back at recorded work from earlier years, 33 00:02:28,476 --> 00:02:32,036 Speaker 1: because most groups are not around. You know that the 34 00:02:32,316 --> 00:02:34,996 Speaker 1: full members are not with us. So it was a 35 00:02:35,036 --> 00:02:37,476 Speaker 1: thrill not only to get to do it, but also 36 00:02:37,876 --> 00:02:40,556 Speaker 1: feeling like we're doing something, as you say, radical, something 37 00:02:40,556 --> 00:02:45,556 Speaker 1: that's never been done. Yes, it's beautiful, and it struck 38 00:02:45,596 --> 00:02:50,356 Speaker 1: me as it had an honesty about it that really 39 00:02:50,516 --> 00:02:54,396 Speaker 1: was touching. Yeah, and it felt like it was true 40 00:02:55,156 --> 00:03:00,716 Speaker 1: to you and it felt really refreshing. Yeah. Well, because 41 00:03:00,796 --> 00:03:03,756 Speaker 1: we had to move so fast and because we were 42 00:03:03,836 --> 00:03:06,796 Speaker 1: allowing the music to lead us. I think it's got 43 00:03:06,796 --> 00:03:09,476 Speaker 1: a kind of ease about it, you know. The the 44 00:03:09,596 --> 00:03:14,716 Speaker 1: songs just are you know, and they're different versions for sure, 45 00:03:14,836 --> 00:03:17,876 Speaker 1: and we've taken quite a few liberties, but the songs shine, 46 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:21,596 Speaker 1: and they shine because we've done a radical thing. We've 47 00:03:21,636 --> 00:03:25,636 Speaker 1: decided to really serve the voice and the lyrics and 48 00:03:26,076 --> 00:03:28,596 Speaker 1: get out of the way as much as possible, So 49 00:03:28,636 --> 00:03:33,236 Speaker 1: the arrangements are really sparse and very simple in most cases. 50 00:03:33,676 --> 00:03:36,796 Speaker 1: How did the idea come about to do this? It 51 00:03:36,876 --> 00:03:40,356 Speaker 1: was knocking around for a while because, as people who've 52 00:03:40,356 --> 00:03:43,596 Speaker 1: been to our shows will know, occasionally we would take 53 00:03:43,596 --> 00:03:45,556 Speaker 1: a song from an album that was a full band 54 00:03:45,596 --> 00:03:48,076 Speaker 1: arrangement that we'd strip it down and we'd play it. 55 00:03:48,916 --> 00:03:51,756 Speaker 1: Often it would just be binding myself and me on 56 00:03:51,836 --> 00:03:56,556 Speaker 1: acoustic guitar or possibly piano, and those versions sometimes became 57 00:03:56,636 --> 00:04:01,156 Speaker 1: the most iconic arrangements. I'm thinking of Staring at the 58 00:04:01,196 --> 00:04:07,316 Speaker 1: Sun or Ordinary Love or Every Breaking Way recently, so 59 00:04:07,396 --> 00:04:09,476 Speaker 1: there's always this thought, well, why don't we try that 60 00:04:09,516 --> 00:04:12,436 Speaker 1: with more of our songs to see where it leads us? 61 00:04:12,476 --> 00:04:17,236 Speaker 1: And then when the pandemic caused this lockdown. I'm one 62 00:04:17,236 --> 00:04:20,516 Speaker 1: of those people who works on music all the time, 63 00:04:20,916 --> 00:04:24,636 Speaker 1: but it seemed like the perfect moment to add into 64 00:04:24,956 --> 00:04:26,836 Speaker 1: what I would normally be doing, which is where coming 65 00:04:26,916 --> 00:04:30,636 Speaker 1: new stuff. To add in this other project is to 66 00:04:30,756 --> 00:04:35,596 Speaker 1: explore arrangement ideas for these songs. And so, with no pressure, 67 00:04:35,836 --> 00:04:39,436 Speaker 1: no expectation at sort of record company that there would 68 00:04:39,476 --> 00:04:42,836 Speaker 1: be a new YouTube record coming, we just started experimenting 69 00:04:42,876 --> 00:04:46,116 Speaker 1: and I would try a few arrangement ideas then bring 70 00:04:46,116 --> 00:04:49,796 Speaker 1: them to Bono and he would saying, see how it sounded, 71 00:04:50,596 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 1: and it just kind of grew, and the whole project 72 00:04:53,716 --> 00:04:58,156 Speaker 1: then developed its own momentum as we got deeper into 73 00:04:58,276 --> 00:05:01,596 Speaker 1: the material and the whole collection started to have its 74 00:05:01,636 --> 00:05:05,356 Speaker 1: own sort of personality. And the one thing that we 75 00:05:06,076 --> 00:05:08,876 Speaker 1: really wanted to try and do was bring an intimacy 76 00:05:08,956 --> 00:05:13,516 Speaker 1: to performances because as a young band particularly, we often 77 00:05:13,556 --> 00:05:16,876 Speaker 1: found ourselves with versions of our songs with Bono's singing 78 00:05:16,916 --> 00:05:19,676 Speaker 1: at the very top of his range, which is an 79 00:05:19,676 --> 00:05:22,396 Speaker 1: amazing sound. I mean, you know, the instrument of Bonnah 80 00:05:22,396 --> 00:05:26,676 Speaker 1: House is powerful, but it can be a little much, 81 00:05:26,956 --> 00:05:30,356 Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you're at home and you 82 00:05:30,396 --> 00:05:33,516 Speaker 1: want to chill. You know, it's like you don't necessarily 83 00:05:33,556 --> 00:05:37,116 Speaker 1: go to those early YouTube records because they're just so intense. 84 00:05:37,396 --> 00:05:41,996 Speaker 1: So we were we thought, well, with this distance of 85 00:05:42,036 --> 00:05:45,596 Speaker 1: experience and time, you know, going back to those early 86 00:05:45,836 --> 00:05:49,036 Speaker 1: versions and rearranging them so Bono's singing within his range 87 00:05:49,036 --> 00:05:52,436 Speaker 1: and he's got the dynamic opportunity to kind of add 88 00:05:52,516 --> 00:05:55,156 Speaker 1: light and shade. We just thought would be interesting, and 89 00:05:55,196 --> 00:05:58,316 Speaker 1: it turned out to be the kind of secret weapon 90 00:05:58,756 --> 00:06:03,836 Speaker 1: was intimacy. It became our kind of new punk rock. Yeah. No, 91 00:06:03,996 --> 00:06:06,556 Speaker 1: it's it's beautiful, and it's a beautiful idea. And I 92 00:06:06,596 --> 00:06:11,036 Speaker 1: think in some ways the extremes are always what's interesting. 93 00:06:11,276 --> 00:06:15,596 Speaker 1: So very loud is interesting, and in the same way, 94 00:06:16,036 --> 00:06:20,036 Speaker 1: very quiet interesting. I can remember when I first discovered 95 00:06:20,116 --> 00:06:24,196 Speaker 1: Eric Satia, and I was still relatively punk rocker at 96 00:06:24,196 --> 00:06:27,036 Speaker 1: the time, but something about this music spoke to me 97 00:06:27,076 --> 00:06:29,036 Speaker 1: in a way that other things didn't. And then I 98 00:06:29,076 --> 00:06:34,076 Speaker 1: remember visiting Ian McKay in Washington, DC, and I got 99 00:06:34,076 --> 00:06:36,636 Speaker 1: to his house and there was an Eric Sati album 100 00:06:37,116 --> 00:06:40,636 Speaker 1: sitting there. It's like something's going on. Something, It's like 101 00:06:40,676 --> 00:06:44,236 Speaker 1: there's something and it's those it's the edges, it's what's 102 00:06:44,316 --> 00:06:48,476 Speaker 1: interesting around the edges, and now you're experimenting on the 103 00:06:48,476 --> 00:06:50,676 Speaker 1: other side. And I love it. I love it, and 104 00:06:50,756 --> 00:06:53,636 Speaker 1: it feels maybe when I was saying the honesty of 105 00:06:53,676 --> 00:06:58,276 Speaker 1: it is, this feels more like what I imagine you 106 00:06:58,276 --> 00:07:01,756 Speaker 1: would put on and actually listen to in real life. 107 00:07:02,356 --> 00:07:04,756 Speaker 1: Well a lot of the time, that's true. I mean, 108 00:07:04,836 --> 00:07:06,636 Speaker 1: you know, you got to remember when we were kids, 109 00:07:07,036 --> 00:07:10,676 Speaker 1: putting on a record was an occasion, you know, because 110 00:07:11,876 --> 00:07:15,156 Speaker 1: there weren't that many records around, or interesting records, and 111 00:07:15,276 --> 00:07:17,836 Speaker 1: those that had them, you know, we would get to 112 00:07:17,876 --> 00:07:19,596 Speaker 1: know them so we could go over to their place 113 00:07:19,596 --> 00:07:23,956 Speaker 1: and listen. So putting on an album, you wouldn't have 114 00:07:24,076 --> 00:07:28,796 Speaker 1: music much of the time. You'd only have it when 115 00:07:28,796 --> 00:07:30,796 Speaker 1: you decided you were going to go and have a 116 00:07:30,836 --> 00:07:34,916 Speaker 1: record listening session or on radio, I guess. But today, 117 00:07:35,316 --> 00:07:39,076 Speaker 1: of course, speak up access to music at all times, 118 00:07:39,356 --> 00:07:44,516 Speaker 1: so music becomes the soundtrack to every part of your day. 119 00:07:44,676 --> 00:07:47,036 Speaker 1: And I think this is you know, there's a need 120 00:07:47,076 --> 00:07:49,636 Speaker 1: at times to have this kind of music that is 121 00:07:49,716 --> 00:07:53,436 Speaker 1: just with you, but in a softer, more intimate way. 122 00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:56,636 Speaker 1: When you were growing up, was their music playing in 123 00:07:56,676 --> 00:08:00,876 Speaker 1: your household or not so much? There was we had 124 00:08:00,876 --> 00:08:05,076 Speaker 1: a record player. My dad's record collection was mostly kind 125 00:08:05,116 --> 00:08:09,516 Speaker 1: of the classic crooners of the fifties, Franks and and 126 00:08:10,156 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 1: there was her Valpert, those sorts of records, a couple 127 00:08:13,756 --> 00:08:17,076 Speaker 1: of jazz records. But he was just that little bit 128 00:08:17,116 --> 00:08:19,516 Speaker 1: too old to really get rock and roll, so he 129 00:08:19,556 --> 00:08:23,396 Speaker 1: didn't have any not even a Beatles record. So when 130 00:08:23,476 --> 00:08:26,156 Speaker 1: my brother and I were, you know, young, like eight 131 00:08:26,276 --> 00:08:30,116 Speaker 1: nine years old, I remember we got a gift of 132 00:08:30,596 --> 00:08:34,796 Speaker 1: a five pound note for Christmas from one of our grandparents, 133 00:08:35,716 --> 00:08:38,436 Speaker 1: so we said, let's buy an album together, so we 134 00:08:38,556 --> 00:08:41,716 Speaker 1: bought Sergeant Peppers. We decided that was going to be 135 00:08:41,716 --> 00:08:44,836 Speaker 1: our joint purchase, and that was kind of the first 136 00:08:45,556 --> 00:08:50,436 Speaker 1: rock and roll album in our household. And then subsequently, 137 00:08:50,476 --> 00:08:54,276 Speaker 1: obviously as we got a little older and got more 138 00:08:54,796 --> 00:08:58,636 Speaker 1: gifts from our grandparents, those that record collection grew slowly. 139 00:08:58,996 --> 00:09:01,996 Speaker 1: But I mean, think about that, it was that rare. 140 00:09:02,596 --> 00:09:06,316 Speaker 1: You know, you find your friends who had these records 141 00:09:06,356 --> 00:09:10,596 Speaker 1: like led Zeppelin record or Dylan record or a Jimmy 142 00:09:10,676 --> 00:09:14,196 Speaker 1: Hendricks record, and you'd borrow them if you possibly could. 143 00:09:14,396 --> 00:09:17,156 Speaker 1: And now it's everywhere, and I don't know there's good 144 00:09:17,156 --> 00:09:21,396 Speaker 1: and bad to that, but I certainly enjoy having access 145 00:09:21,396 --> 00:09:24,236 Speaker 1: to everything and eric side to somebody. I love it too, 146 00:09:24,236 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 1: by the way, and I think your streaming numbers are 147 00:09:26,636 --> 00:09:31,916 Speaker 1: surprisingly high. Interesting. Interesting would you say, did you fall 148 00:09:31,956 --> 00:09:33,956 Speaker 1: in love with music at that time when when it 149 00:09:34,076 --> 00:09:37,436 Speaker 1: was shared with your brother and what Sergeant Pepper? Was 150 00:09:37,476 --> 00:09:40,836 Speaker 1: that sort of the beginning of your connection to music? 151 00:09:41,316 --> 00:09:44,236 Speaker 1: It was, And you know, we were our family was 152 00:09:44,316 --> 00:09:49,436 Speaker 1: from Wales, moved to Ireland, so you know, growing up, 153 00:09:49,756 --> 00:09:53,356 Speaker 1: you know, we all kind of made inroads into the 154 00:09:53,476 --> 00:09:56,516 Speaker 1: local social scene as kids, but there's always that little 155 00:09:56,556 --> 00:09:58,796 Speaker 1: sense of being an outsider. And I think music was 156 00:09:58,836 --> 00:10:01,636 Speaker 1: a great place to kind of go and and just 157 00:10:01,756 --> 00:10:05,476 Speaker 1: spend time. So yeah, it was a refuge for me definitely. 158 00:10:05,516 --> 00:10:08,996 Speaker 1: And I would listen to records, particular records that I loved. 159 00:10:09,116 --> 00:10:13,436 Speaker 1: I'd listen hundreds of times because they were rare and 160 00:10:13,556 --> 00:10:17,036 Speaker 1: I got to know every single nuance of those records. 161 00:10:17,796 --> 00:10:21,076 Speaker 1: And this was before you started playing, Is this correct? Yeah? 162 00:10:21,196 --> 00:10:23,676 Speaker 1: The first instrument I ever tried to play would have 163 00:10:23,676 --> 00:10:26,156 Speaker 1: been piano one It is probably about ten. Didn't go 164 00:10:26,676 --> 00:10:30,076 Speaker 1: so great because I had a very good ear, but 165 00:10:30,516 --> 00:10:33,916 Speaker 1: a kind of music dyslexia, so there's no chance I 166 00:10:33,956 --> 00:10:37,476 Speaker 1: was ever going to be able to read music nearly 167 00:10:37,476 --> 00:10:41,676 Speaker 1: as easily as hear it and copy. So my ear 168 00:10:41,876 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 1: kind of has been someways my greatest asset, but definitely 169 00:10:45,636 --> 00:10:51,596 Speaker 1: early on stopped me from understanding notation or really finding 170 00:10:51,636 --> 00:10:54,996 Speaker 1: my way into that because I just didn't get us. 171 00:10:56,116 --> 00:11:00,316 Speaker 1: I didn't like it. I understood then, probably around thirteen, 172 00:11:01,076 --> 00:11:04,156 Speaker 1: my brother was given a cheap, little acoustic guitar and 173 00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:08,036 Speaker 1: the two of us learned basic chords just open chords 174 00:11:08,036 --> 00:11:10,956 Speaker 1: is just so we could sing and play. And that 175 00:11:11,076 --> 00:11:13,916 Speaker 1: was the beginning of when I got really interested in 176 00:11:14,236 --> 00:11:17,636 Speaker 1: learning an instrument. And then would you play along with records? 177 00:11:17,636 --> 00:11:21,956 Speaker 1: At that time? I would, and not just records. I 178 00:11:21,956 --> 00:11:23,676 Speaker 1: mean it got to the point where I would play 179 00:11:23,716 --> 00:11:28,516 Speaker 1: along to the TV show that whatever we were. This 180 00:11:28,556 --> 00:11:30,636 Speaker 1: is a small family house, so we're all, you know, 181 00:11:30,716 --> 00:11:35,196 Speaker 1: in the TV room, and I can't stop myself picking 182 00:11:35,236 --> 00:11:37,396 Speaker 1: up the guitar and I'm just playing along, and I 183 00:11:37,436 --> 00:11:42,596 Speaker 1: remember getting pillows thrown at me to shut up. I 184 00:11:42,676 --> 00:11:47,116 Speaker 1: was just doing everyone's head in with this incessant guitar line. 185 00:11:47,516 --> 00:11:53,076 Speaker 1: But again, it's the ADHD whatever. Once I got into 186 00:11:53,116 --> 00:11:55,116 Speaker 1: the guitar, I really sort of did a deep dive 187 00:11:55,156 --> 00:11:58,436 Speaker 1: and Luckily early on there was there's a couple of 188 00:11:58,716 --> 00:12:02,556 Speaker 1: guitar players that I fell in love with, Rory Gallaher 189 00:12:02,836 --> 00:12:07,076 Speaker 1: very early on, being Irish, being you know, a great 190 00:12:07,156 --> 00:12:10,396 Speaker 1: guitar player, so I would play along to his records. 191 00:12:11,276 --> 00:12:13,756 Speaker 1: And then that was when I was probably about fifteen. 192 00:12:13,796 --> 00:12:18,876 Speaker 1: And then suddenly punk rock happens, and suddenly it's like 193 00:12:18,916 --> 00:12:23,156 Speaker 1: the Clash, the Jam, all these amazing groups in the 194 00:12:23,276 --> 00:12:28,516 Speaker 1: UK and Patti Smith and then television. So suddenly, as 195 00:12:28,556 --> 00:12:32,556 Speaker 1: a young guitar player, I'm getting all this sort of 196 00:12:32,596 --> 00:12:38,236 Speaker 1: incoming exposure to radically different kinds of guitar approaches, and 197 00:12:38,276 --> 00:12:41,316 Speaker 1: I was like, whoa. And that was a big inspiration, 198 00:12:41,356 --> 00:12:43,356 Speaker 1: not just what they were doing, but the sense that 199 00:12:43,396 --> 00:12:46,356 Speaker 1: they could do something different. You know, I sensed it 200 00:12:46,436 --> 00:12:49,916 Speaker 1: was not the same set of ideas as the sort 201 00:12:49,916 --> 00:12:54,636 Speaker 1: of white rock, which you know I found early on. 202 00:12:54,996 --> 00:12:58,676 Speaker 1: I liked Lizzie, but certain point it just seemed like 203 00:12:59,396 --> 00:13:02,316 Speaker 1: it didn't have much imagination. But this work, you know, 204 00:13:02,396 --> 00:13:06,116 Speaker 1: Patti Smith and television particularly, they were like, wow, that 205 00:13:06,276 --> 00:13:10,396 Speaker 1: is that's different, That's coming from other place. It opened 206 00:13:10,396 --> 00:13:12,876 Speaker 1: the door to possibilities, whether whether you were going to 207 00:13:12,956 --> 00:13:17,396 Speaker 1: go down the same path as them or not. It 208 00:13:17,596 --> 00:13:20,716 Speaker 1: showed there's another way, and there could be many other 209 00:13:20,756 --> 00:13:23,396 Speaker 1: ways as it turns out. Yeah, I mean I was. 210 00:13:23,716 --> 00:13:26,636 Speaker 1: I was so fortunate so that you know, people like 211 00:13:26,756 --> 00:13:30,916 Speaker 1: John Miguel from Magazine and Susan the Banshees, and there 212 00:13:30,996 --> 00:13:35,676 Speaker 1: was some great guitar players, just so many at that 213 00:13:35,796 --> 00:13:41,356 Speaker 1: moment that we're doing new things, and I was just 214 00:13:41,436 --> 00:13:45,036 Speaker 1: lapping it all up at all times. About how old 215 00:13:45,036 --> 00:13:50,076 Speaker 1: were you at that time? Well, this was seventy seven, 216 00:13:50,316 --> 00:13:53,596 Speaker 1: so I would have been seventy seven. I would have 217 00:13:53,596 --> 00:13:59,316 Speaker 1: been sixteen. Yeah, punk rock happened kind of just as 218 00:13:59,316 --> 00:14:02,276 Speaker 1: I was turning fifteen. Do you remember what the very 219 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:06,476 Speaker 1: first punk record you heard was. I think the first 220 00:14:06,516 --> 00:14:09,676 Speaker 1: punk song I heard was probably the Jazz on Top 221 00:14:09,716 --> 00:14:12,356 Speaker 1: of the Pumps. The Jam on Top of the Pops 222 00:14:12,436 --> 00:14:15,756 Speaker 1: was a moment because the sheer energy of it, you know, 223 00:14:15,836 --> 00:14:18,516 Speaker 1: and the fact that these guys were probably only about 224 00:14:18,556 --> 00:14:20,636 Speaker 1: three or four years older than us. It really felt 225 00:14:20,716 --> 00:14:25,916 Speaker 1: suddenly not only was it possible to write your own songs, 226 00:14:26,076 --> 00:14:29,636 Speaker 1: but actually get some notice. So that was a big 227 00:14:29,836 --> 00:14:31,836 Speaker 1: encouragement to us at that time because it was music 228 00:14:31,876 --> 00:14:34,316 Speaker 1: we could play. We love the Ramones for the same reason. 229 00:14:34,556 --> 00:14:38,556 Speaker 1: They were probably the first cover of something that was 230 00:14:39,196 --> 00:14:42,596 Speaker 1: from the punk kind of tradition, and we did a 231 00:14:42,596 --> 00:14:45,676 Speaker 1: bunch of Ramones songs. That was probably all we could 232 00:14:45,676 --> 00:14:49,276 Speaker 1: play at that point. I love the Ramones. That my 233 00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:51,556 Speaker 1: first experience of punk rock was the Ramans and it 234 00:14:51,876 --> 00:14:58,076 Speaker 1: changed my life. Yeah, they were real outliers. If you 235 00:14:58,196 --> 00:15:02,076 Speaker 1: think of how you connected to music, then how do 236 00:15:02,116 --> 00:15:07,076 Speaker 1: you say your relationship to music has changed since childhood? Well, 237 00:15:07,116 --> 00:15:10,076 Speaker 1: I think when you're a kid, you tend to sort 238 00:15:10,116 --> 00:15:13,876 Speaker 1: of have your real favorites and you you're not maybe 239 00:15:13,916 --> 00:15:18,076 Speaker 1: as curious about things outside of that genre of that form. 240 00:15:18,156 --> 00:15:21,596 Speaker 1: So we went through a whole phase where we absolutely 241 00:15:21,636 --> 00:15:25,116 Speaker 1: had no interest in the blues, no interest in really 242 00:15:25,116 --> 00:15:28,916 Speaker 1: an African American music, because that to us had been 243 00:15:29,356 --> 00:15:33,196 Speaker 1: as a sort of form, had been so strongly associated 244 00:15:33,196 --> 00:15:37,156 Speaker 1: with the music before punk rock. So we we would 245 00:15:37,196 --> 00:15:42,956 Speaker 1: have real prejudices against us copying any of those ideas 246 00:15:42,996 --> 00:15:46,916 Speaker 1: of forms. So certain guitar styles we just wouldn't we 247 00:15:46,916 --> 00:15:51,396 Speaker 1: wouldn't allow them in our music. Bending of notes, you know, 248 00:15:51,556 --> 00:15:53,676 Speaker 1: something as simple as that, we just weren't into it. 249 00:15:54,476 --> 00:15:59,636 Speaker 1: The third, which is in musical terms, the note that 250 00:15:59,716 --> 00:16:02,276 Speaker 1: gives you a major chord or a minor chord. We 251 00:16:02,276 --> 00:16:05,036 Speaker 1: wouldn't play thirds. We just wanted our music to be 252 00:16:05,356 --> 00:16:08,716 Speaker 1: very open and hard to pin down, so I would 253 00:16:08,716 --> 00:16:11,196 Speaker 1: plays that were just made of the root and the fifth, 254 00:16:11,756 --> 00:16:16,116 Speaker 1: which means it has no sex. It's it's in terms 255 00:16:16,116 --> 00:16:19,636 Speaker 1: of the chord gender. If you want. Today, I'm much 256 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:23,756 Speaker 1: more open, And I suppose where I'm at these days 257 00:16:24,036 --> 00:16:29,076 Speaker 1: is songs. You know, they seem to be an eternal thing. 258 00:16:29,076 --> 00:16:32,196 Speaker 1: If you hit on a song that is outside of 259 00:16:32,956 --> 00:16:36,436 Speaker 1: time in the sense of the moment in culture, you know, 260 00:16:36,476 --> 00:16:39,436 Speaker 1: if it's timeless, that's the highest goal. I think. So 261 00:16:40,116 --> 00:16:44,396 Speaker 1: therefore everybody from coal Porter and a bird backreck stuff. 262 00:16:44,396 --> 00:16:48,196 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have abba, you know, the bee jeans, I wouldn't. 263 00:16:48,196 --> 00:16:49,876 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have listened to any of that stuff when 264 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:52,836 Speaker 1: I was sixteen. But now I feel like there's a 265 00:16:52,836 --> 00:16:56,316 Speaker 1: lot there for me to learn. It's beautiful. Having a 266 00:16:56,356 --> 00:17:00,796 Speaker 1: parochial view of style early on can be really helpful 267 00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:05,036 Speaker 1: in terms of defining your sound, so it can work 268 00:17:05,076 --> 00:17:09,396 Speaker 1: to your advantage to see, I'm only going to play this, 269 00:17:09,596 --> 00:17:12,876 Speaker 1: I'm only going to do this. This is our sound, 270 00:17:13,036 --> 00:17:15,436 Speaker 1: and you define your sound and then when you break 271 00:17:15,556 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 1: free of that. It allows incredible growth and change over time. 272 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:25,596 Speaker 1: You're not starting with the palette of everything. You're starting 273 00:17:25,596 --> 00:17:28,076 Speaker 1: with a limited palette. But it was based on your taste. 274 00:17:28,156 --> 00:17:30,956 Speaker 1: It It was honest, you know, these are the things 275 00:17:30,956 --> 00:17:33,956 Speaker 1: I like. We're going to work within this framework, and 276 00:17:33,996 --> 00:17:37,796 Speaker 1: it's beautiful. And then finding ways now to say, okay, 277 00:17:37,836 --> 00:17:40,356 Speaker 1: now I like the things that I rejected, Then how 278 00:17:40,396 --> 00:17:44,876 Speaker 1: can these elements be integrated and still be true to 279 00:17:44,996 --> 00:17:48,516 Speaker 1: what it is that we do exactly? And limitations can 280 00:17:48,796 --> 00:17:55,236 Speaker 1: end up being really crucial defining characteristics. Sickly working with Brianino. 281 00:17:55,876 --> 00:18:00,556 Speaker 1: You know, Brian would have been a person who understood technology, 282 00:18:01,316 --> 00:18:05,116 Speaker 1: possibly more than he understood music, as in terms of 283 00:18:05,196 --> 00:18:09,756 Speaker 1: music theory. And we were working with Ryan and we 284 00:18:09,756 --> 00:18:12,276 Speaker 1: were at one point we were saying, you know, we're 285 00:18:12,316 --> 00:18:15,796 Speaker 1: not like virtuosos, you know, and he was going, well, 286 00:18:15,836 --> 00:18:18,516 Speaker 1: that's cool, you know, that's not important to think about 287 00:18:18,516 --> 00:18:21,556 Speaker 1: the velvet underground. I mean, these guys were they had 288 00:18:21,876 --> 00:18:26,796 Speaker 1: incredible intelligence and creativity. But you know, mo Tucker was, 289 00:18:27,316 --> 00:18:29,796 Speaker 1: you know, a drummer who played the songs, but she 290 00:18:29,596 --> 00:18:32,836 Speaker 1: was not one of the great drummers. And Lou was 291 00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:37,356 Speaker 1: a really decent guitar play. He's not Jimmy Hendrickson. We realized, 292 00:18:37,436 --> 00:18:41,676 Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know, those limitations can turn into strengths, 293 00:18:41,796 --> 00:18:45,476 Speaker 1: and that was a big insight in some ways. That's 294 00:18:45,516 --> 00:18:48,236 Speaker 1: what the punk rock revolution was about. Was and the 295 00:18:48,316 --> 00:18:51,516 Speaker 1: hip hop revolution as well, was it was taking the 296 00:18:51,636 --> 00:18:54,876 Speaker 1: music out of the conservatory and back to the streets, 297 00:18:54,876 --> 00:18:57,996 Speaker 1: and it was for everybody. Everyone who had a conception 298 00:18:58,276 --> 00:19:03,556 Speaker 1: or something to say could participate. Yeah, it democratized in 299 00:19:03,596 --> 00:19:06,556 Speaker 1: a way. That's amazing, because that was the problem with 300 00:19:06,676 --> 00:19:08,756 Speaker 1: music prior to punk was that it seemed so at 301 00:19:08,836 --> 00:19:12,556 Speaker 1: least it seemed like, you know, if you weren't a 302 00:19:12,676 --> 00:19:16,436 Speaker 1: virtuoso musician, then you didn't didn't get a chance to 303 00:19:16,476 --> 00:19:19,796 Speaker 1: get into playing live and making records. And also there 304 00:19:19,876 --> 00:19:23,356 Speaker 1: was that sense of the tablets of Stone descending from 305 00:19:23,396 --> 00:19:26,796 Speaker 1: on High to us mere immortals, and you know, that 306 00:19:27,156 --> 00:19:31,396 Speaker 1: got very boring and extremely pretentious around that time. And 307 00:19:31,476 --> 00:19:34,556 Speaker 1: so we were into even then, we were into the 308 00:19:34,596 --> 00:19:38,556 Speaker 1: bands that could put it together on a single three 309 00:19:38,596 --> 00:19:42,156 Speaker 1: and a half minute, forty five vinyl record. So the 310 00:19:42,236 --> 00:19:46,156 Speaker 1: Ramones could do that, the Kinks could do that, Iggy Pop, 311 00:19:46,196 --> 00:19:50,836 Speaker 1: and the Stones obviously, the Beatles and they were our 312 00:19:50,916 --> 00:19:54,676 Speaker 1: heroes for that reason. We just loved those rock and 313 00:19:54,796 --> 00:19:58,396 Speaker 1: roll forty fives. Did you watch The Top of the 314 00:19:58,436 --> 00:20:02,876 Speaker 1: Pops every week? Yeah, pretty much religiously. And then there 315 00:20:02,916 --> 00:20:04,876 Speaker 1: was one other show called The Old Grow Whistle Test 316 00:20:04,956 --> 00:20:08,476 Speaker 1: and that was the same. We would watch it every week. 317 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:12,956 Speaker 1: So told the Pops had pistols. On one occasion they 318 00:20:13,036 --> 00:20:15,996 Speaker 1: played pretty vacant and that was mind blowing. But the 319 00:20:16,036 --> 00:20:19,436 Speaker 1: Ogo whistle Test had all the touring acts, so the 320 00:20:19,556 --> 00:20:23,956 Speaker 1: Cramps were playing, you know, all that, so that was 321 00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:26,636 Speaker 1: a great one to catch and they would do in 322 00:20:26,676 --> 00:20:28,876 Speaker 1: that case, they do like two or three songs. They 323 00:20:28,876 --> 00:20:32,196 Speaker 1: wouldn't just do one. Great The Cramps was the first 324 00:20:32,316 --> 00:20:33,916 Speaker 1: punk rock show I got to see when I was 325 00:20:33,956 --> 00:20:37,556 Speaker 1: probably it was probably fifteen or sixteen, and it was 326 00:20:38,196 --> 00:20:43,356 Speaker 1: mind blowing. It changed my life forever. Amazing band. What 327 00:20:43,436 --> 00:20:45,036 Speaker 1: would have been the music that was playing on the 328 00:20:45,116 --> 00:20:48,916 Speaker 1: radio back when you're a kid, Well, I mean a 329 00:20:48,916 --> 00:20:51,236 Speaker 1: lot of it was was the pop music of the day, 330 00:20:51,236 --> 00:20:53,796 Speaker 1: and some of it was was actually really good, but 331 00:20:53,876 --> 00:20:55,916 Speaker 1: some of it was terrible. So when I was a 332 00:20:55,956 --> 00:20:58,796 Speaker 1: really young kid, there was a sort of glam explosion, 333 00:20:58,916 --> 00:21:03,116 Speaker 1: so it was everything from Bowie to Mark Bowland, Gary Glitter, 334 00:21:03,756 --> 00:21:08,036 Speaker 1: Alvin Stardust, all these artists from the UK who was 335 00:21:08,076 --> 00:21:12,116 Speaker 1: sort of right think the wave of this new Glam movement, 336 00:21:12,196 --> 00:21:16,596 Speaker 1: which I suppose was interesting because it brought androgyny into 337 00:21:16,756 --> 00:21:19,396 Speaker 1: rock and roll, you know, like I suppose Mick had 338 00:21:19,436 --> 00:21:22,756 Speaker 1: played around a bit with it, Mick Jagger, but Bowie 339 00:21:22,836 --> 00:21:25,116 Speaker 1: and Mark Bowland really kind of took it to the 340 00:21:25,156 --> 00:21:28,156 Speaker 1: next level. And you know, it was eyeliner, but it 341 00:21:28,236 --> 00:21:30,436 Speaker 1: was the music actually was a lot of it was 342 00:21:30,436 --> 00:21:34,276 Speaker 1: really good. And then Abbot, I guess would have been 343 00:21:34,476 --> 00:21:38,236 Speaker 1: huge at that time, but in terms of guitar music, 344 00:21:39,276 --> 00:21:41,196 Speaker 1: a lot of it didn't reach me, you know, and 345 00:21:41,236 --> 00:21:44,996 Speaker 1: I was such a Beatles fan. I really didn't like 346 00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:48,996 Speaker 1: the sort of progressive rock of that time. I quite 347 00:21:49,036 --> 00:21:51,076 Speaker 1: liked a band called Yes because I think that had 348 00:21:51,076 --> 00:21:53,676 Speaker 1: some good, good ideas, but a lot of it just 349 00:21:53,716 --> 00:21:57,116 Speaker 1: left me completely cold. So I was drawn to Alice 350 00:21:57,196 --> 00:22:03,036 Speaker 1: Cooper and Slade and these guitar bands that had tunes, 351 00:22:03,276 --> 00:22:06,076 Speaker 1: you know, that had some good songs. That was the 352 00:22:06,116 --> 00:22:09,756 Speaker 1: thing that was attracted me. Was you two your first band, 353 00:22:09,916 --> 00:22:13,276 Speaker 1: the first band you were in, Yeah, I mean we 354 00:22:13,276 --> 00:22:17,036 Speaker 1: were very early days. We called us Feedback and that 355 00:22:17,076 --> 00:22:19,116 Speaker 1: was when we were doing covers, and you know, we 356 00:22:19,116 --> 00:22:21,836 Speaker 1: were kids. And then when the punk thing happened, we 357 00:22:21,996 --> 00:22:23,836 Speaker 1: called ourselves the Hype for a while, and we were 358 00:22:23,876 --> 00:22:26,556 Speaker 1: starting to write our own songs, but still mostly doing covers. 359 00:22:26,996 --> 00:22:31,436 Speaker 1: And then you Two, when we really started to get 360 00:22:31,436 --> 00:22:34,636 Speaker 1: serious about our own songwriting, we called usselves you two 361 00:22:34,716 --> 00:22:37,156 Speaker 1: and that. Yeah, so, and how old were the members 362 00:22:37,156 --> 00:22:39,356 Speaker 1: of the band when you all met? We were all 363 00:22:39,396 --> 00:22:42,836 Speaker 1: in high school together, and so I would have been fifteen, 364 00:22:43,076 --> 00:22:47,196 Speaker 1: Larry would have been fifteen, Adam sixteen. And really when 365 00:22:47,356 --> 00:22:50,516 Speaker 1: when we got together, it was it was more about 366 00:22:50,676 --> 00:22:52,636 Speaker 1: just something fun to do on a Saturday, you know. 367 00:22:52,676 --> 00:22:57,636 Speaker 1: It wasn't knowing any idea of taking more seriously than that. 368 00:22:58,356 --> 00:23:03,476 Speaker 1: And we were kids, so the transcision from the hobby 369 00:23:03,876 --> 00:23:08,076 Speaker 1: to thinking, wow, we have something was a slow one, 370 00:23:08,156 --> 00:23:14,436 Speaker 1: but fun enough. The spark, that thing that you recognize 371 00:23:14,636 --> 00:23:18,356 Speaker 1: when you play with somebody else, that spark was there 372 00:23:18,436 --> 00:23:21,156 Speaker 1: quite early on, even as we were playing other people's material. 373 00:23:21,196 --> 00:23:25,116 Speaker 1: There was a chemistry there that we all recognized. And 374 00:23:25,276 --> 00:23:28,716 Speaker 1: the only band I think I've ever been in where 375 00:23:29,356 --> 00:23:32,316 Speaker 1: except for one, I got a gig with a country 376 00:23:32,316 --> 00:23:38,596 Speaker 1: band at age sixteen for one night and it was 377 00:23:38,756 --> 00:23:42,236 Speaker 1: a band called the Drifting Cowboys and we're basically doing 378 00:23:42,716 --> 00:23:47,076 Speaker 1: country songs and I got paid and that was that's 379 00:23:47,076 --> 00:23:51,516 Speaker 1: the first time I actually ever got paid to play guitar. Amazing. 380 00:23:53,156 --> 00:23:55,476 Speaker 1: We'll be back after a quick break with more from 381 00:23:55,556 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 1: Rick Rubin and The Edge. We're back with The Edge. 382 00:24:04,076 --> 00:24:08,556 Speaker 1: Did you ever feel connection to any traditional Irish music 383 00:24:08,716 --> 00:24:10,996 Speaker 1: just because such a big part of the Irish culture, 384 00:24:11,476 --> 00:24:14,916 Speaker 1: the folk songs and the traditional tunes. Was that in 385 00:24:14,956 --> 00:24:19,236 Speaker 1: your life at all? You know, I knew that it 386 00:24:19,316 --> 00:24:22,596 Speaker 1: was there, but you know, at that stage, I really 387 00:24:22,636 --> 00:24:26,076 Speaker 1: didn't find it interesting. I didn't find it engaging. I mean, 388 00:24:26,116 --> 00:24:30,076 Speaker 1: I suppose for us as kids in Dublin was in 389 00:24:30,116 --> 00:24:34,276 Speaker 1: those days and the sort of late seventies was quite 390 00:24:34,276 --> 00:24:39,476 Speaker 1: a gray place. There wasn't a huge amount going on. 391 00:24:39,676 --> 00:24:42,836 Speaker 1: So music was an escape, you know, it was it 392 00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:46,716 Speaker 1: was like a window to something else going on in 393 00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:49,356 Speaker 1: another part of the world. So the last thing we 394 00:24:49,396 --> 00:24:52,676 Speaker 1: wanted to do was listen to her, you know, traditional 395 00:24:52,676 --> 00:24:56,076 Speaker 1: Irish music, to be reminded of what we were very 396 00:24:56,116 --> 00:24:59,756 Speaker 1: well aware of every day, which was Ireland at that time. 397 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:03,076 Speaker 1: Now I look back and it's it's beautiful music. There's 398 00:25:03,116 --> 00:25:07,316 Speaker 1: actually a huge revival of folk and traditional music happening 399 00:25:07,396 --> 00:25:13,596 Speaker 1: right now in Ireland, and some great new groups langcom Ye, Vagabonds, 400 00:25:14,756 --> 00:25:19,676 Speaker 1: Lisa O'Neil. These are really regarded new folk and traditional artists, 401 00:25:20,036 --> 00:25:23,436 Speaker 1: but back then not really understood. Please feel free to 402 00:25:23,476 --> 00:25:25,356 Speaker 1: share any of the new ones that you like, just 403 00:25:25,396 --> 00:25:27,596 Speaker 1: because I like all kinds of music and I don't 404 00:25:27,596 --> 00:25:31,476 Speaker 1: know about this movement, so that's exciting. How did you 405 00:25:31,716 --> 00:25:35,516 Speaker 1: first connect with Eno, Well, we made our first few 406 00:25:35,556 --> 00:25:38,476 Speaker 1: records with Steve Lillywhite, and he had this idea in 407 00:25:38,516 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 1: his head that he would only do one album per artist. 408 00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:44,636 Speaker 1: That was this thought, but in our case, he broke 409 00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:46,516 Speaker 1: his rule and he actually did the first three you 410 00:25:46,676 --> 00:25:49,356 Speaker 1: tube records. But then we're coming up to recond number 411 00:25:49,396 --> 00:25:52,116 Speaker 1: four and even we are at this point going, let's 412 00:25:52,196 --> 00:25:55,756 Speaker 1: think of working with somebody new and fresh, just to 413 00:25:56,596 --> 00:26:00,276 Speaker 1: keep it interesting. So we were swapping ideas and names, 414 00:26:00,276 --> 00:26:02,756 Speaker 1: and I particularly loved Before and After Science, which is 415 00:26:02,916 --> 00:26:07,156 Speaker 1: Brian's solo album, and we all liked Talking Heads, and 416 00:26:07,236 --> 00:26:10,556 Speaker 1: we loved the work he's done with Bowie, so he 417 00:26:10,636 --> 00:26:12,436 Speaker 1: kind of bubbled up to the top of our list 418 00:26:12,516 --> 00:26:14,956 Speaker 1: of like, well, this guy, we'd love to work with 419 00:26:14,956 --> 00:26:17,956 Speaker 1: Brian if we could persuade him. So we kind of 420 00:26:17,956 --> 00:26:20,876 Speaker 1: mounted a little bit of a campaign and through management 421 00:26:20,876 --> 00:26:22,316 Speaker 1: we got in touch with him and we had a 422 00:26:22,396 --> 00:26:25,676 Speaker 1: meeting with him in London. Actually it was Dublin. He 423 00:26:25,716 --> 00:26:29,076 Speaker 1: came to Dublin and he said he came pretty much 424 00:26:29,516 --> 00:26:32,436 Speaker 1: with the idea that he was going to turn down 425 00:26:32,476 --> 00:26:37,116 Speaker 1: the offer. But in the course of our conversations, I 426 00:26:37,156 --> 00:26:39,036 Speaker 1: think we realized how much we had in common in 427 00:26:39,116 --> 00:26:41,916 Speaker 1: terms of the music we liked, but also our ambitions 428 00:26:41,996 --> 00:26:47,356 Speaker 1: for sonics and experimenting with sound. So he found himself 429 00:26:47,476 --> 00:26:49,156 Speaker 1: at the end of the trip going, I think I 430 00:26:49,196 --> 00:26:53,356 Speaker 1: want to work with these guys, and so he's slightly 431 00:26:53,356 --> 00:26:55,996 Speaker 1: hedging his bets. He'd decided he would bring his friend 432 00:26:56,076 --> 00:26:59,556 Speaker 1: from Canada, fellow called Danny Lanois, who at that point 433 00:26:59,556 --> 00:27:03,036 Speaker 1: had been on dozens of records as a kind of 434 00:27:03,756 --> 00:27:09,596 Speaker 1: producer but local to Canada. And we had some songs 435 00:27:09,916 --> 00:27:13,836 Speaker 1: pretty much in good shape, maybe without lyrics. But I 436 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:16,716 Speaker 1: remember a few days before, a week before Brian was 437 00:27:16,756 --> 00:27:18,996 Speaker 1: to arrive to start work, we had this sort of 438 00:27:19,756 --> 00:27:23,716 Speaker 1: crisis of confidence in material. So Steve Lilly might happen 439 00:27:23,756 --> 00:27:26,876 Speaker 1: to be in town, so we grabbed Steve and I said, look, 440 00:27:27,556 --> 00:27:30,956 Speaker 1: should we cancel the sessions. We're not sure we have anything. 441 00:27:31,276 --> 00:27:34,596 Speaker 1: He said, well, blame me what you got. So we 442 00:27:34,796 --> 00:27:37,436 Speaker 1: played him a version of Pride in the Name of 443 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:43,756 Speaker 1: Love and a sort of homecoming and Unforgettable Fire and 444 00:27:43,796 --> 00:27:46,156 Speaker 1: he said, m I think you guys are going to 445 00:27:46,236 --> 00:27:48,036 Speaker 1: be fine. I don't think you need to worry about 446 00:27:48,076 --> 00:27:51,476 Speaker 1: the songs. You got some good things here. So we 447 00:27:51,516 --> 00:27:54,196 Speaker 1: started working with Brian and Danny and we decided for 448 00:27:54,316 --> 00:27:57,596 Speaker 1: that album, rather than being in a recording studio with 449 00:27:58,156 --> 00:28:02,676 Speaker 1: the sort of limited acoustic properties, we rented Slain Castle, 450 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:08,876 Speaker 1: which is this sort of medieval castle north of Dublin City, 451 00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:13,316 Speaker 1: and what it had was these enormous rooms with the 452 00:28:13,356 --> 00:28:18,716 Speaker 1: possibility of recording, you know, in these spaces that would 453 00:28:18,836 --> 00:28:21,556 Speaker 1: add so much to the color and flavor of the music. 454 00:28:21,636 --> 00:28:26,036 Speaker 1: So we decamped to Slay Castle and had like, I 455 00:28:26,076 --> 00:28:29,156 Speaker 1: think it was six weeks, that's all we had. But 456 00:28:29,316 --> 00:28:32,596 Speaker 1: we had so much fun with Brian and Danny because 457 00:28:32,596 --> 00:28:36,716 Speaker 1: they both, I mean, as well as being incredible musicians, 458 00:28:37,076 --> 00:28:41,076 Speaker 1: they both shared so much of our kind of curiosity 459 00:28:41,156 --> 00:28:44,076 Speaker 1: about sound and it was just a pleasure to work 460 00:28:44,076 --> 00:28:46,476 Speaker 1: with them and I've obviously worked at them many times since. 461 00:28:47,196 --> 00:28:51,876 Speaker 1: That's fantastic. It's so nice when those those magic moments happen, 462 00:28:51,956 --> 00:28:54,316 Speaker 1: that you find a great collaborator and it just works 463 00:28:54,316 --> 00:28:55,756 Speaker 1: and you get to do it for a long period 464 00:28:55,796 --> 00:28:59,036 Speaker 1: of time. It's golden. Yeah. Yeah, And I mean I 465 00:28:59,076 --> 00:29:02,116 Speaker 1: would credit Brian and Danny with with, you know, really 466 00:29:02,116 --> 00:29:04,716 Speaker 1: bringing our music up at the level. You know, We'd 467 00:29:04,716 --> 00:29:08,316 Speaker 1: already had a bit of success on the War album, 468 00:29:08,396 --> 00:29:10,996 Speaker 1: so we were doing pretty well, but in terms of 469 00:29:11,036 --> 00:29:15,556 Speaker 1: the dimensionality and the kind of experimental qualities, they really 470 00:29:15,636 --> 00:29:18,996 Speaker 1: upped our game. This is a personal question. You could 471 00:29:19,036 --> 00:29:21,396 Speaker 1: answer it anyway you like, but tell me what you 472 00:29:21,436 --> 00:29:23,836 Speaker 1: think each band member. You can include yourself in this. 473 00:29:24,476 --> 00:29:29,116 Speaker 1: Each band member's biggest strengths and biggest weaknesses are and 474 00:29:29,156 --> 00:29:31,116 Speaker 1: this is only from your point of view. This is 475 00:29:31,116 --> 00:29:34,276 Speaker 1: not a broad view of how the world sees it, 476 00:29:34,396 --> 00:29:39,956 Speaker 1: just from your seat, right. Well, start with Adam Adams 477 00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:43,916 Speaker 1: probably are least conventional musician in the band, and that 478 00:29:44,516 --> 00:29:48,156 Speaker 1: his grasp of even the basic idea rules of music 479 00:29:48,276 --> 00:29:53,516 Speaker 1: is very tenuous. So Adam brings a kind of unorthodox 480 00:29:53,676 --> 00:29:57,756 Speaker 1: quality to our work, which is hugely important. So he 481 00:29:57,836 --> 00:30:01,956 Speaker 1: would often do something that no one else would ever 482 00:30:02,036 --> 00:30:05,396 Speaker 1: have thought of, and to him it's just as valid 483 00:30:05,396 --> 00:30:09,516 Speaker 1: as the things that most people would consider to be obvious. 484 00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:13,516 Speaker 1: To him, there's no difference. So that's a huge strength 485 00:30:13,796 --> 00:30:16,796 Speaker 1: to our band, and over the years there's a great 486 00:30:16,796 --> 00:30:19,476 Speaker 1: example of that with Bullet the Blue Sky. So that's 487 00:30:19,516 --> 00:30:22,636 Speaker 1: a that's a tune. We're in the studio demoing a 488 00:30:22,676 --> 00:30:24,676 Speaker 1: bunch of songs and I've been listening to this band 489 00:30:24,716 --> 00:30:27,796 Speaker 1: called The Fall, and I've been one of their songs 490 00:30:27,876 --> 00:30:31,796 Speaker 1: is this really jagged, cool sort of guitar part. So 491 00:30:31,876 --> 00:30:35,676 Speaker 1: I'm in I'm in the rehearsal space and I'm starting 492 00:30:35,716 --> 00:30:38,916 Speaker 1: to figure out this guitar part and I've got something 493 00:30:39,356 --> 00:30:42,756 Speaker 1: different but sort of in the same vein, and I'm 494 00:30:42,756 --> 00:30:45,876 Speaker 1: just playing this part and I see Adam and Larry 495 00:30:45,916 --> 00:30:47,796 Speaker 1: coming in because they've heard this, and I think this 496 00:30:47,876 --> 00:30:50,636 Speaker 1: is cool. So they join in, and I suddenly realized 497 00:30:50,676 --> 00:30:54,116 Speaker 1: they're playing it at in halftime, meaning I mean, here 498 00:30:54,196 --> 00:31:03,756 Speaker 1: is dadda and they so and I'm like looking at them, 499 00:31:03,756 --> 00:31:06,796 Speaker 1: going they just don't get it, you know, this is 500 00:31:07,356 --> 00:31:11,036 Speaker 1: what are they doing? So Adam comes up this incredible 501 00:31:11,036 --> 00:31:13,836 Speaker 1: bass part, but I'm I go back into the control 502 00:31:14,276 --> 00:31:16,836 Speaker 1: and Bona's in there, and I'm like, well that was 503 00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:20,556 Speaker 1: a bit of a mess, and Bonna's going, no, listen, 504 00:31:21,196 --> 00:31:24,036 Speaker 1: this is so cool. And I listened back, and sure enough, 505 00:31:24,796 --> 00:31:28,596 Speaker 1: the way they were hearing it, David a completely different twist, 506 00:31:29,236 --> 00:31:32,116 Speaker 1: and you know, we kept the bass part, we kept 507 00:31:32,116 --> 00:31:35,236 Speaker 1: the drum part, I changed some of the guitar and stuff. 508 00:31:35,236 --> 00:31:39,636 Speaker 1: But that was just an example where you really you 509 00:31:39,796 --> 00:31:44,716 Speaker 1: get great positives from differences of sensibility and how you 510 00:31:44,756 --> 00:31:47,396 Speaker 1: hear things. So that's Adam. I just have one quick 511 00:31:47,436 --> 00:31:51,756 Speaker 1: question about that, which is, from that moment, did it 512 00:31:51,876 --> 00:31:56,316 Speaker 1: then open your mind to possibilities in general? Like did 513 00:31:56,356 --> 00:32:01,876 Speaker 1: you become a different musician after that experience. Yes, I 514 00:32:01,916 --> 00:32:07,876 Speaker 1: mean I think that's all part of recognizing limitations as strengths, 515 00:32:08,276 --> 00:32:12,636 Speaker 1: and I think that whole album The Joshua Tree had 516 00:32:12,716 --> 00:32:16,156 Speaker 1: many examples of that. One of my favorite stories on 517 00:32:16,196 --> 00:32:19,196 Speaker 1: that front is another Adam's story. We were doing where 518 00:32:19,196 --> 00:32:22,556 Speaker 1: the Streets of No Name, and we played this take 519 00:32:23,236 --> 00:32:26,356 Speaker 1: and it had a great energy, really cool vibe. But 520 00:32:26,996 --> 00:32:30,036 Speaker 1: if you were to listen to the individual instruments, they 521 00:32:30,036 --> 00:32:34,116 Speaker 1: weren't particularly in time, you know, they'd be fairly substantial 522 00:32:34,476 --> 00:32:39,116 Speaker 1: sort of swings and periods where you know, there was 523 00:32:39,156 --> 00:32:42,996 Speaker 1: a lot of tension rather than everything being in the pocket, 524 00:32:42,996 --> 00:32:45,596 Speaker 1: you know, things were kind of struggling to stay in 525 00:32:45,636 --> 00:32:50,196 Speaker 1: the pocket. And I remember Adam actually got quite overwhelmed 526 00:32:50,236 --> 00:32:53,396 Speaker 1: at one point by the fact that we couldn't get 527 00:32:53,436 --> 00:32:56,956 Speaker 1: the perfect take. So we were working with this particular 528 00:32:57,036 --> 00:33:00,076 Speaker 1: version where the Streets of No Name, and eventually really 529 00:33:00,276 --> 00:33:03,276 Speaker 1: got something we were very happy with. But Steve Lillywhite 530 00:33:03,316 --> 00:33:05,156 Speaker 1: came in towards the end of the project to help 531 00:33:05,236 --> 00:33:08,156 Speaker 1: us mix the album to get these songs over the line, 532 00:33:08,636 --> 00:33:11,076 Speaker 1: and Dad and he sat him down. He said, look, Steve, 533 00:33:12,476 --> 00:33:16,556 Speaker 1: if you are mixing Streets, you should know that there's 534 00:33:16,636 --> 00:33:18,996 Speaker 1: one base part here, which was an overdub that we've 535 00:33:19,356 --> 00:33:22,876 Speaker 1: We've spent hours getting it perfectly in time. And then 536 00:33:22,916 --> 00:33:26,636 Speaker 1: there's the one that Adam played live, and every rough 537 00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:31,756 Speaker 1: mix that we've done with the overdub, we've all decided 538 00:33:31,796 --> 00:33:34,916 Speaker 1: it sounds terrible. The one with that tension in it 539 00:33:35,076 --> 00:33:37,956 Speaker 1: where it's out of time is the one to use. 540 00:33:38,116 --> 00:33:41,476 Speaker 1: So anyway, Steve starts his mix and he puts up 541 00:33:42,156 --> 00:33:44,756 Speaker 1: the floor base as we call it. Now He's going, 542 00:33:45,316 --> 00:33:47,956 Speaker 1: this is wildly out of time, I'm not using that, 543 00:33:48,276 --> 00:33:50,116 Speaker 1: so we put up the other one. It's like sitting 544 00:33:50,516 --> 00:33:53,276 Speaker 1: as it should in the pocket with the drums, and 545 00:33:53,756 --> 00:33:57,196 Speaker 1: he does his rough mix and he's getting close to 546 00:33:57,276 --> 00:33:59,996 Speaker 1: finished and he calls us all in and we come in. 547 00:34:00,036 --> 00:34:03,476 Speaker 1: Apparently I don't remember this, but he Steve does. We 548 00:34:03,516 --> 00:34:06,916 Speaker 1: all came in and we're going, oh, sounds terrible. What 549 00:34:06,996 --> 00:34:09,636 Speaker 1: have he done. It's like, this is an awful mix. 550 00:34:09,716 --> 00:34:13,796 Speaker 1: It's terrible, Steve, whatever you're doing, it's just not working. 551 00:34:13,916 --> 00:34:17,596 Speaker 1: So it's like taken aback. So he says, well, he 552 00:34:17,756 --> 00:34:21,076 Speaker 1: remembers this conversation with Danny. He swaps out the basses. 553 00:34:21,116 --> 00:34:25,036 Speaker 1: Well does this help? And we all went there. It is. 554 00:34:25,636 --> 00:34:30,516 Speaker 1: That's the mix mate. That sounds great, and that's what's 555 00:34:30,516 --> 00:34:34,756 Speaker 1: on the albums, so incredible. Again, the idea of what's 556 00:34:35,116 --> 00:34:39,636 Speaker 1: right and correct is often not right and correct. So 557 00:34:39,676 --> 00:34:42,516 Speaker 1: with Larry, I'd say Larry's great strength again as a 558 00:34:42,636 --> 00:34:46,236 Speaker 1: musician is Larry plays to the to the vocal. Larry 559 00:34:46,236 --> 00:34:48,636 Speaker 1: doesn't play to the guitar, he doesn't play to the bass. 560 00:34:49,316 --> 00:34:52,636 Speaker 1: Larry plays drums to the to the singer. Which is 561 00:34:52,676 --> 00:34:56,036 Speaker 1: why he's such a great drummer because all his nuances 562 00:34:56,276 --> 00:35:00,996 Speaker 1: and his inflections and the groove he's picking up from 563 00:35:00,996 --> 00:35:05,036 Speaker 1: the vocal. So when it's funny, when you listen to 564 00:35:05,076 --> 00:35:09,116 Speaker 1: the monitor mixes of the band, you get this inside. 565 00:35:09,436 --> 00:35:13,636 Speaker 1: So my monitor mix is basically a full blend of 566 00:35:13,676 --> 00:35:18,116 Speaker 1: everyone's instruments with the guitar and my voice slightly elevates it. 567 00:35:18,236 --> 00:35:21,436 Speaker 1: Follows is kind of the same, but with his voice 568 00:35:21,516 --> 00:35:26,196 Speaker 1: elevates it. Adam has mostly kicked drum and a little 569 00:35:26,196 --> 00:35:28,196 Speaker 1: bit of a voice and a little bit of guitar, 570 00:35:28,596 --> 00:35:32,476 Speaker 1: but really it's base and basin kickdrum, and then Larry 571 00:35:32,956 --> 00:35:37,636 Speaker 1: is drums and the voice and a mighty bit of guitar. 572 00:35:39,436 --> 00:35:43,116 Speaker 1: So that quality I think for a musician, that drummer, 573 00:35:43,196 --> 00:35:46,156 Speaker 1: he's just there with the voice the whole time. I 574 00:35:46,156 --> 00:35:51,396 Speaker 1: think that's why he's so good, beautiful. And then myself, 575 00:35:51,516 --> 00:35:54,876 Speaker 1: I'm my strength, I suppose would be my ear, my 576 00:35:54,996 --> 00:35:59,676 Speaker 1: musical ear. So to me music I feel it very viscerally. 577 00:35:59,916 --> 00:36:03,356 Speaker 1: You know, it's not intellectual to me, it's just it's 578 00:36:03,396 --> 00:36:06,636 Speaker 1: like in my gut is where I receive music. So 579 00:36:07,516 --> 00:36:12,316 Speaker 1: writing and for four is very instinctive rather than technical. 580 00:36:12,756 --> 00:36:14,916 Speaker 1: So that's the strength. The weakness I suppose would be 581 00:36:15,356 --> 00:36:20,836 Speaker 1: the exact thing, not technical. So sometimes you know, not 582 00:36:20,956 --> 00:36:24,676 Speaker 1: knowing as much theory as as I ought to leaves 583 00:36:24,756 --> 00:36:28,716 Speaker 1: you slightly a hostage to inspiration. You know, you're not 584 00:36:28,876 --> 00:36:32,116 Speaker 1: necessarily have the way to get out of a problem 585 00:36:32,676 --> 00:36:38,076 Speaker 1: using just plain old theory. With Barow, he's also incredibly 586 00:36:38,116 --> 00:36:44,636 Speaker 1: instinctive and will will find amazing melodic ideas. And again 587 00:36:44,676 --> 00:36:46,436 Speaker 1: I think it's to do with growing up as we 588 00:36:46,476 --> 00:36:50,116 Speaker 1: did on stage. This sort of innate understanding of what 589 00:36:50,716 --> 00:36:53,636 Speaker 1: a great melody is and what is going to reach 590 00:36:53,676 --> 00:36:57,716 Speaker 1: an audience means that you know, when he hits on something, 591 00:36:58,156 --> 00:37:00,996 Speaker 1: it's going to ring like a bell. It's like you 592 00:37:00,996 --> 00:37:05,516 Speaker 1: know that melodic idea is going to travel. It's got potency. 593 00:37:06,156 --> 00:37:09,356 Speaker 1: So that's his great talent, I think. I think the 594 00:37:09,356 --> 00:37:13,276 Speaker 1: other strength we have as a band is this sense 595 00:37:13,356 --> 00:37:18,596 Speaker 1: of trust and us all having a common goal that 596 00:37:18,796 --> 00:37:21,756 Speaker 1: binds us together. So we're all looking out for each 597 00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:24,876 Speaker 1: other's backs at all times, you know, So when when 598 00:37:24,956 --> 00:37:27,636 Speaker 1: Larry sits behind the drum kit to figure out a part, 599 00:37:28,236 --> 00:37:31,716 Speaker 1: we're kind of there to add commons, help whatever, And 600 00:37:31,756 --> 00:37:34,356 Speaker 1: the same with me Bo or Adam. It's like there's 601 00:37:35,036 --> 00:37:38,716 Speaker 1: there's three guys have your back when you're coming up 602 00:37:38,716 --> 00:37:42,076 Speaker 1: with your ideas, which I think is a huge strength. 603 00:37:42,756 --> 00:37:47,436 Speaker 1: You mentioned that music isn't intellectual to you, it's more instinctual, 604 00:37:48,076 --> 00:37:52,836 Speaker 1: and that plays well with the idea of the right 605 00:37:52,876 --> 00:37:57,676 Speaker 1: way would be the intellectual way. The instinctual way is 606 00:37:57,716 --> 00:37:59,556 Speaker 1: the one that just sounds good to you, you know, 607 00:37:59,596 --> 00:38:01,876 Speaker 1: the one that that feels good, doesn't have to follow 608 00:38:01,916 --> 00:38:04,076 Speaker 1: any rules. If it feels good to you, that's the 609 00:38:04,196 --> 00:38:09,076 Speaker 1: ultimate taste. Is I feel it, So it's good, doesn't 610 00:38:09,156 --> 00:38:10,996 Speaker 1: matter what the math of it is, and we don't 611 00:38:10,996 --> 00:38:13,556 Speaker 1: need to know the math of it. Yeah, And I 612 00:38:13,556 --> 00:38:16,236 Speaker 1: wanted to ask if you feel like that there's a 613 00:38:16,276 --> 00:38:21,356 Speaker 1: spiritual dimension to that. Yes, I mean whether you however 614 00:38:21,396 --> 00:38:24,996 Speaker 1: you describe spiritual, and there's so many different versions of that. 615 00:38:25,076 --> 00:38:28,156 Speaker 1: I do really believe that. I've been reading a great 616 00:38:28,156 --> 00:38:33,196 Speaker 1: book recently called Notes on Complexity. It's it's actually a 617 00:38:33,276 --> 00:38:38,436 Speaker 1: science book that explains the limitations of science. And what 618 00:38:38,556 --> 00:38:44,756 Speaker 1: it introduces is the idea that our insights as creators, 619 00:38:44,796 --> 00:38:51,036 Speaker 1: as inventors, as scientists often are outside of any kind 620 00:38:51,036 --> 00:38:55,916 Speaker 1: of explanation, any logic. They are the kind of leaps 621 00:38:56,036 --> 00:38:59,636 Speaker 1: of insights. And I think of songwriting that way, it's 622 00:38:59,676 --> 00:39:03,516 Speaker 1: like you get this vision in your mind's ear, you 623 00:39:03,636 --> 00:39:08,316 Speaker 1: hear like a complete song sometimes or when we're playing together, 624 00:39:08,756 --> 00:39:11,956 Speaker 1: you know, you just find you're reaching for notes, so 625 00:39:11,956 --> 00:39:15,516 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily know what the note is or why 626 00:39:15,556 --> 00:39:20,476 Speaker 1: you're going there, but it emotionally makes sense. So to me, 627 00:39:20,516 --> 00:39:24,036 Speaker 1: there's a sort of this consciousness in the small sea sense, 628 00:39:24,596 --> 00:39:28,396 Speaker 1: which is the individual consciousness, but there's also a kind 629 00:39:28,436 --> 00:39:34,556 Speaker 1: of collective consciousness, big sea consciousness, which we can access, 630 00:39:35,236 --> 00:39:38,636 Speaker 1: and it's when you access that that you're really kind 631 00:39:38,636 --> 00:39:42,116 Speaker 1: of you're not just being inspired. I think there's a 632 00:39:42,196 --> 00:39:46,236 Speaker 1: kind of a higher level again, where you can kind 633 00:39:46,276 --> 00:39:49,916 Speaker 1: of access things that you couldn't you couldn't normally do, 634 00:39:50,036 --> 00:39:52,556 Speaker 1: and you couldn't possibly explain how you got there, but 635 00:39:52,956 --> 00:39:56,836 Speaker 1: suddenly you've arrived. Some are very unique, and I think 636 00:39:56,836 --> 00:39:59,476 Speaker 1: that's true for some of the great breakthroughs in science 637 00:39:59,476 --> 00:40:03,396 Speaker 1: as well, like Einstein and his theory of relativity. He 638 00:40:03,436 --> 00:40:06,316 Speaker 1: didn't sit down with a slide rule and go, well, 639 00:40:06,556 --> 00:40:09,396 Speaker 1: that must mean such and such. He saw it does 640 00:40:09,436 --> 00:40:13,476 Speaker 1: a vision and then figured out the mathematics to make 641 00:40:13,556 --> 00:40:17,196 Speaker 1: sense of it afterwards. So I feel I think that's 642 00:40:17,316 --> 00:40:20,516 Speaker 1: the spiritual dimension and of course, I mean I do 643 00:40:20,596 --> 00:40:25,036 Speaker 1: have a faith, so I'm not saying that that's not 644 00:40:25,436 --> 00:40:29,156 Speaker 1: true for me, you know, the more specific faith in 645 00:40:29,276 --> 00:40:32,476 Speaker 1: existence of God. But I suppose I can see it 646 00:40:33,156 --> 00:40:36,156 Speaker 1: being true if you have no belief in God, if 647 00:40:36,196 --> 00:40:41,156 Speaker 1: you just see it as being open to to these 648 00:40:41,316 --> 00:40:47,036 Speaker 1: other levels of consciousness. Yes, and whatever creative energy brings 649 00:40:47,076 --> 00:40:49,756 Speaker 1: forth everything in on the planet. You know, there's some 650 00:40:50,236 --> 00:40:53,476 Speaker 1: there's something productive going on, because the trees are growing, 651 00:40:53,516 --> 00:40:57,556 Speaker 1: there's something happening, there's some energy. Well, I mean my 652 00:40:57,796 --> 00:41:00,236 Speaker 1: definition of God is the creative force of the energy, 653 00:41:00,316 --> 00:41:03,316 Speaker 1: you know, and of the universe, the creative energy of 654 00:41:03,316 --> 00:41:06,196 Speaker 1: the universe, because I mean, if you start looking at 655 00:41:06,236 --> 00:41:09,876 Speaker 1: the Big Bang and all the theories about this universe existing, 656 00:41:09,996 --> 00:41:15,276 Speaker 1: you realize it's a miraculous thing. There's no explanation for it. 657 00:41:15,316 --> 00:41:17,956 Speaker 1: I mean, it shouldn't exist. And the only way that 658 00:41:18,716 --> 00:41:23,556 Speaker 1: the cosmologists of today can sort of rationalize the mathematics 659 00:41:23,596 --> 00:41:28,316 Speaker 1: of the improbability of it is through the multiverse that 660 00:41:28,436 --> 00:41:31,756 Speaker 1: there are in fact an infinite number of universes. And 661 00:41:31,836 --> 00:41:36,916 Speaker 1: somebody was explaining how improbable it is that our planet 662 00:41:36,956 --> 00:41:40,276 Speaker 1: exists with life and sentient life. Instead, it'd be like 663 00:41:40,916 --> 00:41:44,836 Speaker 1: flying a plane at like ten thousand feet throwing random 664 00:41:44,916 --> 00:41:49,596 Speaker 1: letters out the window, and that a Shakespeare play is 665 00:41:49,636 --> 00:41:55,196 Speaker 1: formed on the ground. It's like beyond much too much. 666 00:41:55,676 --> 00:41:58,916 Speaker 1: So I'm I'm much more with the program of some 667 00:41:59,036 --> 00:42:03,076 Speaker 1: creative and energy whatever, whatever that is, whatever that is. 668 00:42:03,756 --> 00:42:07,316 Speaker 1: I just heard a story about Einstein's theory of relativity, 669 00:42:07,636 --> 00:42:10,876 Speaker 1: which was from the time that he presented it to 670 00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:15,156 Speaker 1: the people of the powers that be in the science community, 671 00:42:15,796 --> 00:42:19,596 Speaker 1: he was basically called a quack for twenty one years. 672 00:42:19,676 --> 00:42:25,076 Speaker 1: Took twenty one years until they finally recognized the theory 673 00:42:25,076 --> 00:42:27,356 Speaker 1: of relative For twenty one years, he was crazy and 674 00:42:27,396 --> 00:42:31,636 Speaker 1: it was impossible by the powers that be. Yeah, that 675 00:42:31,636 --> 00:42:35,476 Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me. It's such a radical idea, and yeah, 676 00:42:35,476 --> 00:42:38,556 Speaker 1: it turned everything on its head, but it turns out 677 00:42:38,596 --> 00:42:42,396 Speaker 1: to be absolutely on the money. Yeah, and then there's 678 00:42:42,396 --> 00:42:44,716 Speaker 1: a whole other this is interesting, you might like, there's 679 00:42:44,716 --> 00:42:50,556 Speaker 1: a whole group of other researchers called the Thunderbolt maybe 680 00:42:50,556 --> 00:42:55,036 Speaker 1: it's called the Thunderbolt Project who actually believe that Einstein 681 00:42:55,156 --> 00:42:58,796 Speaker 1: was wrong and that everything that has been built on 682 00:42:59,436 --> 00:43:03,916 Speaker 1: Einstein's philosophy, everything we think in physics is not true. 683 00:43:04,076 --> 00:43:07,596 Speaker 1: Based on that everything since then has been wrong, which 684 00:43:07,596 --> 00:43:10,476 Speaker 1: is again interesting. Again. I don't I don't have a 685 00:43:11,396 --> 00:43:13,596 Speaker 1: I don't have a horse in the race. But I 686 00:43:13,676 --> 00:43:16,236 Speaker 1: love that there are people thinking about it. It's like 687 00:43:16,916 --> 00:43:19,476 Speaker 1: maybe the thing that we thought was impossible as possible, 688 00:43:19,796 --> 00:43:21,636 Speaker 1: Maybe the thing that we're sure of is not the 689 00:43:21,716 --> 00:43:24,636 Speaker 1: way it is. It seems like a healthy outlook to 690 00:43:26,236 --> 00:43:31,516 Speaker 1: continue this creative unfolding. Well, I mean, every every scientific 691 00:43:31,556 --> 00:43:36,116 Speaker 1: idea is called a theory, yeah, because at any time 692 00:43:36,196 --> 00:43:39,636 Speaker 1: they could end up being proved to be incomplete or 693 00:43:39,756 --> 00:43:43,716 Speaker 1: inaccurate in some way. Newtonian physics was it for so 694 00:43:43,756 --> 00:43:48,796 Speaker 1: many centuries, and when relativity was first brought to the 695 00:43:48,836 --> 00:43:52,996 Speaker 1: public attention, it turned Newton's ideas on its head. So 696 00:43:53,476 --> 00:43:57,716 Speaker 1: it quite likely could happen again to Einstein's ideas. But 697 00:43:57,756 --> 00:44:01,476 Speaker 1: I think the scientific method is what's important that we 698 00:44:01,796 --> 00:44:04,836 Speaker 1: use for something as as important as science, that we 699 00:44:04,996 --> 00:44:09,356 Speaker 1: use that method. And I think you can't mix science 700 00:44:09,116 --> 00:44:15,676 Speaker 1: and faith. You can use inspiration from metaphysics if you 701 00:44:15,716 --> 00:44:19,236 Speaker 1: want to arrive at a new theory, but the actual 702 00:44:19,636 --> 00:44:22,356 Speaker 1: the proving out of that theory has to be methodical 703 00:44:22,436 --> 00:44:26,236 Speaker 1: and scientific, absolutely, and I think most scientists would probably 704 00:44:26,236 --> 00:44:29,356 Speaker 1: agree with that. I think so many scientists are are 705 00:44:29,476 --> 00:44:33,916 Speaker 1: spiritual beings and that's how they find their way into 706 00:44:33,956 --> 00:44:38,036 Speaker 1: the new ideas. It's not not at all uncommon. Yeah. 707 00:44:38,276 --> 00:44:41,756 Speaker 1: One of one of my friends is a particle physicist 708 00:44:41,836 --> 00:44:46,556 Speaker 1: and I guess cosmologist Brian Coxesnim. He works at certain 709 00:44:47,036 --> 00:44:51,956 Speaker 1: particle accelerator and he's also a great communicator on science. 710 00:44:51,956 --> 00:44:54,556 Speaker 1: So he does a lot of TV shows and actually 711 00:44:54,596 --> 00:44:58,956 Speaker 1: does live concerts, which is quite interesting to go and 712 00:44:58,996 --> 00:45:02,996 Speaker 1: see somebody lecturing about black hole theory to you know, 713 00:45:03,396 --> 00:45:08,596 Speaker 1: two thousand people. It's really I would recommend going to 714 00:45:08,596 --> 00:45:11,996 Speaker 1: one of the show. He is not an atheist, he's 715 00:45:11,996 --> 00:45:15,796 Speaker 1: an agnostic. But one of his friends is a bishop, 716 00:45:16,196 --> 00:45:22,676 Speaker 1: and they've sat on many occasions going over the differences 717 00:45:22,716 --> 00:45:27,196 Speaker 1: between the sort of belief systems. One is purely scientific 718 00:45:27,236 --> 00:45:31,876 Speaker 1: and one is theological, and they've decided this very little difference. 719 00:45:32,076 --> 00:45:36,516 Speaker 1: The only real difference is that the bishop believes that 720 00:45:37,476 --> 00:45:42,716 Speaker 1: the existence of God is eternal, omnipotent, and therefore truth 721 00:45:43,116 --> 00:45:48,916 Speaker 1: and you know, insight and understanding is both universal and omnipotent. 722 00:45:49,396 --> 00:45:52,956 Speaker 1: And what Brier would say is no, I think that 723 00:45:53,076 --> 00:45:57,596 Speaker 1: sort of insight and understanding is about human beings. Here 724 00:45:57,636 --> 00:46:01,356 Speaker 1: and now on planet Earth. So it didn't exist before us, 725 00:46:01,476 --> 00:46:04,876 Speaker 1: it won't exist after us unless some other life form 726 00:46:04,916 --> 00:46:09,196 Speaker 1: has developed this level of intexual development. But that's the 727 00:46:09,196 --> 00:46:12,356 Speaker 1: only difference. And I think that if you just approach 728 00:46:12,516 --> 00:46:16,836 Speaker 1: spirituality as like they're all truth seeking, that's what it is. Yes, 729 00:46:16,956 --> 00:46:19,676 Speaker 1: and we're all have a slightly different version of but 730 00:46:20,556 --> 00:46:23,356 Speaker 1: it's the same set of questions that we're all trying 731 00:46:23,396 --> 00:46:26,036 Speaker 1: to answer. Yeah, and they seem to get us to 732 00:46:26,076 --> 00:46:28,716 Speaker 1: the same place. Same true with all of the faiths, 733 00:46:28,836 --> 00:46:32,236 Speaker 1: or so many of the faiths seem to be many 734 00:46:32,316 --> 00:46:35,716 Speaker 1: streams leading to the same river, you know, the eternal 735 00:46:35,756 --> 00:46:39,316 Speaker 1: truths seem to be in all of them. Yeah, And 736 00:46:39,876 --> 00:46:44,036 Speaker 1: it's a different approach with science, it's it's much more methodical. 737 00:46:44,436 --> 00:46:48,396 Speaker 1: But I think it was Carl Sagan who said that 738 00:46:48,476 --> 00:46:52,916 Speaker 1: he put forward the idea that humanity is the means 739 00:46:52,916 --> 00:47:00,116 Speaker 1: by which the universe understands itself. Without humanity, it's there. Yes, 740 00:47:00,716 --> 00:47:03,676 Speaker 1: there is no understanding of it, or appreciation of it 741 00:47:03,756 --> 00:47:06,556 Speaker 1: or celebration of it. Yes. Well, there's a great gift 742 00:47:07,196 --> 00:47:11,236 Speaker 1: that we have and a certain responsibility. We're going to 743 00:47:11,276 --> 00:47:13,196 Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll be back with 744 00:47:13,236 --> 00:47:20,716 Speaker 1: the Rest of Rix Conversation with the Edge. We're back 745 00:47:20,716 --> 00:47:24,196 Speaker 1: with the Rest of Rix Conversation with the Edge. How 746 00:47:24,236 --> 00:47:26,676 Speaker 1: do you think your band has managed to stay together 747 00:47:27,236 --> 00:47:30,036 Speaker 1: all of these years when it seems like practically none 748 00:47:30,036 --> 00:47:33,556 Speaker 1: of your contemporaries have been able to do that. You know, 749 00:47:33,596 --> 00:47:36,556 Speaker 1: we do it because we love it, and we do 750 00:47:36,596 --> 00:47:40,476 Speaker 1: it because we love working with each other. And you know, 751 00:47:40,556 --> 00:47:43,236 Speaker 1: there's been times where we haven't loved the idea of 752 00:47:43,236 --> 00:47:45,636 Speaker 1: working with each other and being together, and you know, 753 00:47:45,676 --> 00:47:47,836 Speaker 1: so we have to give each other time, you know, 754 00:47:48,116 --> 00:47:52,556 Speaker 1: time off, time to be away. But bottom line, I 755 00:47:52,556 --> 00:47:55,596 Speaker 1: think it's because we all know instinctively that we shine 756 00:47:56,356 --> 00:47:59,516 Speaker 1: individually the brightest when we're in this collective. So the 757 00:47:59,596 --> 00:48:02,756 Speaker 1: collective works for us beautiful, and it works for all 758 00:48:02,796 --> 00:48:05,156 Speaker 1: of us because we're not really in competition if you 759 00:48:05,236 --> 00:48:07,396 Speaker 1: think about it, you know, it's like think about say 760 00:48:07,436 --> 00:48:12,036 Speaker 1: the Beatles. You know, you've got three lead singers and 761 00:48:12,236 --> 00:48:16,596 Speaker 1: three great songwriters who are trying to get their song 762 00:48:16,676 --> 00:48:19,356 Speaker 1: on the album. You know, the case of George, he 763 00:48:19,476 --> 00:48:22,556 Speaker 1: had a harder time than Paul and John, but they're 764 00:48:22,556 --> 00:48:25,556 Speaker 1: amazing talents, all of them. And you could make the 765 00:48:25,676 --> 00:48:29,836 Speaker 1: argument probably for any one of their songs, Well maybe 766 00:48:29,876 --> 00:48:31,516 Speaker 1: one of the other guys should have sung the lead 767 00:48:31,516 --> 00:48:33,836 Speaker 1: on this. So in our band, it's not like that 768 00:48:33,916 --> 00:48:36,716 Speaker 1: we each have our own area of expertise, you know. 769 00:48:36,796 --> 00:48:40,836 Speaker 1: With me, it's sort of compositional responsibilities. That's what I do. 770 00:48:40,876 --> 00:48:46,956 Speaker 1: I'm the lead composer. Bono's melodically responsible and lyrically responsible. 771 00:48:46,996 --> 00:48:50,556 Speaker 1: Adam and Larry are there as part of making our 772 00:48:50,676 --> 00:48:55,956 Speaker 1: music unique and different. And Larry's a better drummer because 773 00:48:55,996 --> 00:48:58,956 Speaker 1: he's playing with me and Adam. And I'm a better 774 00:48:58,956 --> 00:49:02,916 Speaker 1: guitar player because I'm playing with Larry and Adam and Adams. 775 00:49:03,036 --> 00:49:05,556 Speaker 1: You know, the bass player is because Larry and me 776 00:49:05,716 --> 00:49:10,316 Speaker 1: and Bono. So I think in that way it's a reliance, 777 00:49:10,396 --> 00:49:13,196 Speaker 1: but it's a trust as well that works. There's a 778 00:49:13,396 --> 00:49:18,316 Speaker 1: great another book, please, Robert Axelrod. I think it's called 779 00:49:18,356 --> 00:49:22,716 Speaker 1: Evolution of Cooperation, and it's a great analysis of how 780 00:49:22,756 --> 00:49:26,996 Speaker 1: cooperation works in nature and how it's not exclusive to humans, 781 00:49:27,436 --> 00:49:30,316 Speaker 1: and that the basis of it is that if you're 782 00:49:30,316 --> 00:49:34,116 Speaker 1: in a cooperative relationship, that means you're better off than 783 00:49:34,196 --> 00:49:37,836 Speaker 1: being on your own. Yes, the minute it stops being that. 784 00:49:37,996 --> 00:49:41,956 Speaker 1: In other words, for anyone's being exploited, then it's going 785 00:49:41,996 --> 00:49:44,316 Speaker 1: to fall apart, but it just so happens. Over the years, 786 00:49:44,956 --> 00:49:49,756 Speaker 1: we understand one thing, which is human nature. Everybody is 787 00:49:49,796 --> 00:49:53,116 Speaker 1: going to always overestimate their own importance and value in 788 00:49:53,156 --> 00:49:57,956 Speaker 1: a given relationship, as they also underestimate everyone else's. And 789 00:49:58,116 --> 00:50:01,596 Speaker 1: if you can keep that in your mind, yes, you know, 790 00:50:01,796 --> 00:50:04,716 Speaker 1: it sort of tempers your ego and you just go, oh, well, 791 00:50:05,156 --> 00:50:07,436 Speaker 1: that was something I did that was great, but it 792 00:50:07,436 --> 00:50:10,596 Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for these guys. Absolutely, 793 00:50:11,316 --> 00:50:15,956 Speaker 1: let's talk more about composition. Is there a particular way 794 00:50:16,076 --> 00:50:18,916 Speaker 1: that it happens for you or does it happen in 795 00:50:18,956 --> 00:50:23,716 Speaker 1: different ways. I think that the most important tool to 796 00:50:24,316 --> 00:50:28,356 Speaker 1: good composition is recognition that you've got something really good. 797 00:50:28,476 --> 00:50:32,796 Speaker 1: And the enemy of getting to something really good is 798 00:50:32,836 --> 00:50:38,356 Speaker 1: not something bad, but something that's just good, yes, and 799 00:50:38,516 --> 00:50:43,596 Speaker 1: something that's kind of almost it. Yes, I can really 800 00:50:44,236 --> 00:50:46,396 Speaker 1: fool you and waste a lot of your time and 801 00:50:46,436 --> 00:50:49,916 Speaker 1: a lot of anguish. And so I think there's been 802 00:50:49,956 --> 00:50:53,436 Speaker 1: times where we're as a band are more attuned and 803 00:50:53,996 --> 00:50:58,076 Speaker 1: less attuned, and so records can take longer if you're 804 00:50:58,116 --> 00:51:01,676 Speaker 1: not as a tune, not because you're not writing good stuff, 805 00:51:01,676 --> 00:51:05,116 Speaker 1: but the stuff you're you believe is it. You know, 806 00:51:05,196 --> 00:51:07,436 Speaker 1: it turns out not to be as good as you think, 807 00:51:07,716 --> 00:51:11,836 Speaker 1: So that's I would say that the most important quality 808 00:51:12,276 --> 00:51:16,436 Speaker 1: is almost what you reject, and knowing to keep rejecting 809 00:51:16,636 --> 00:51:20,916 Speaker 1: until you start to get to something really great. It's confounding, 810 00:51:20,996 --> 00:51:23,716 Speaker 1: you know. It's because you can be waiting around. You know, 811 00:51:23,796 --> 00:51:25,956 Speaker 1: you might have something that you know there's an element 812 00:51:25,996 --> 00:51:30,276 Speaker 1: there that's really special, but getting to the finished song 813 00:51:30,476 --> 00:51:33,436 Speaker 1: can take a long time. Do you always write with 814 00:51:33,476 --> 00:51:35,716 Speaker 1: a project in mind or do you just write on 815 00:51:35,756 --> 00:51:39,596 Speaker 1: a regular basis. I just write. I just write on 816 00:51:39,676 --> 00:51:43,556 Speaker 1: a regular basis. And you know, early early days, I'd 817 00:51:43,636 --> 00:51:46,356 Speaker 1: work with four track set machines and I'd like have 818 00:51:46,516 --> 00:51:50,196 Speaker 1: drum machines and keyboards and bass guitars and guitars and 819 00:51:51,076 --> 00:51:54,356 Speaker 1: try and build up tracks that way. These days it's 820 00:51:54,396 --> 00:51:58,676 Speaker 1: all on the laptop. And was garage band. Now it's logic. 821 00:51:58,876 --> 00:52:03,636 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's basically the same, searching for a collision 822 00:52:03,636 --> 00:52:08,756 Speaker 1: of melody and chords that tells you there's something special 823 00:52:08,756 --> 00:52:12,516 Speaker 1: going on here. And often I'm hearing it, you know, 824 00:52:12,596 --> 00:52:15,396 Speaker 1: I'm playing some chords that I'm using and I'm hearing 825 00:52:15,396 --> 00:52:19,916 Speaker 1: something Bona's doing and something that's it something great here, Now, 826 00:52:20,196 --> 00:52:22,676 Speaker 1: where's this leading us? And so you're trying in a 827 00:52:22,716 --> 00:52:27,076 Speaker 1: way to take that little moment of inspiration and follow 828 00:52:27,116 --> 00:52:32,436 Speaker 1: it through to where it naturally wants to go. And 829 00:52:32,516 --> 00:52:36,716 Speaker 1: the frustrating thing is sometimes you just can't find that way, 830 00:52:36,796 --> 00:52:40,236 Speaker 1: and it can you have many full stones occasion, and 831 00:52:40,236 --> 00:52:44,556 Speaker 1: then sometimes the song is there from the beginning, almost instantaneously. 832 00:52:45,236 --> 00:52:47,156 Speaker 1: Would you say that in the early days it was 833 00:52:47,276 --> 00:52:49,476 Speaker 1: more of a being in the room with the band 834 00:52:49,556 --> 00:52:52,396 Speaker 1: playing off of each other to find it, and now 835 00:52:52,436 --> 00:52:55,636 Speaker 1: it's more finding it yourself and then bringing it to 836 00:52:55,676 --> 00:52:58,236 Speaker 1: the band just by the nature of everybody living in 837 00:52:58,236 --> 00:53:02,676 Speaker 1: different places. Yeah, that's definitely true. But I think what 838 00:53:03,636 --> 00:53:07,516 Speaker 1: happened in that earlier process of kind of being in 839 00:53:07,516 --> 00:53:10,116 Speaker 1: the rehearsal room and trying to figure something out, it 840 00:53:10,276 --> 00:53:15,516 Speaker 1: sort of gives you a much smaller palette of possibilities 841 00:53:16,316 --> 00:53:19,876 Speaker 1: because you're kind of you can only move when you're 842 00:53:19,916 --> 00:53:23,316 Speaker 1: moving as a group, and sometimes that's magical. I mean, 843 00:53:23,356 --> 00:53:28,836 Speaker 1: I remember with Adam, the two of us just improvising together, 844 00:53:29,276 --> 00:53:35,116 Speaker 1: and this whole song Into the Heart came together, which 845 00:53:35,196 --> 00:53:38,036 Speaker 1: is on our first album. It was basically the two 846 00:53:38,076 --> 00:53:40,756 Speaker 1: of us in rehearsal and just just really like in 847 00:53:40,836 --> 00:53:44,876 Speaker 1: a kind of duet and me responding to things that 848 00:53:44,916 --> 00:53:47,316 Speaker 1: Adam is doing on the bass and him doing the 849 00:53:47,316 --> 00:53:49,196 Speaker 1: same as I would play something on the guitar you 850 00:53:49,236 --> 00:53:53,556 Speaker 1: would change, and that when it works is magical. But 851 00:53:53,676 --> 00:53:59,076 Speaker 1: it's it's extremely rare, and what actually happens most is, 852 00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:03,476 Speaker 1: you know, you'll get some simple idea. You know that 853 00:54:03,476 --> 00:54:06,516 Speaker 1: that idea will not go anywhere until somebody sits down 854 00:54:06,516 --> 00:54:11,036 Speaker 1: and starts to work on a new new section. Tell 855 00:54:11,076 --> 00:54:13,476 Speaker 1: me about playing with Adam, because that's a that's a 856 00:54:13,556 --> 00:54:19,956 Speaker 1: real thing. Yeah, he's such a unique musician and for 857 00:54:20,156 --> 00:54:25,036 Speaker 1: all of the lack of theory, he has a feel 858 00:54:25,356 --> 00:54:30,036 Speaker 1: that's incredible. When he plays it always feels good. Even 859 00:54:30,036 --> 00:54:33,476 Speaker 1: if the note's wrong, that's something that can be repaired 860 00:54:33,556 --> 00:54:37,396 Speaker 1: or whatever, but the feeling of it, the groove of 861 00:54:37,436 --> 00:54:42,756 Speaker 1: it is always cool. Yeah, always, yeah. I mean a 862 00:54:42,796 --> 00:54:45,276 Speaker 1: good example of being New Year'sday. So you know, we're 863 00:54:45,316 --> 00:54:48,236 Speaker 1: in rehearsal or maybe in the sound check and it 864 00:54:48,316 --> 00:54:51,756 Speaker 1: suddenly starts doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo 865 00:54:51,756 --> 00:54:54,316 Speaker 1: doo doo doo doo doom doo doo doo doo doo 866 00:54:54,356 --> 00:54:58,676 Speaker 1: doo doo. We're like, whoa, dude, that's amazing. So we 867 00:54:58,796 --> 00:55:01,996 Speaker 1: kick that around for But that's it. That's all we have, 868 00:55:02,196 --> 00:55:06,396 Speaker 1: you know, is his first part. So the next stage 869 00:55:06,396 --> 00:55:11,516 Speaker 1: of that was me sitting with the piano and going, Okay, 870 00:55:11,676 --> 00:55:15,756 Speaker 1: where's this taking us and figuring out the next part 871 00:55:15,836 --> 00:55:19,756 Speaker 1: of the music. And I didn't really have melodic ideas 872 00:55:19,836 --> 00:55:22,596 Speaker 1: per se, but I knew, I just knew instinctively has 873 00:55:22,676 --> 00:55:27,356 Speaker 1: to go here. So that's an example of that song 874 00:55:27,356 --> 00:55:30,676 Speaker 1: wouldn't exist without Adam, but it wouldn't have been a 875 00:55:30,716 --> 00:55:35,156 Speaker 1: song without the compositional work that had to happen after 876 00:55:35,196 --> 00:55:39,156 Speaker 1: the fact. So that's why it really works for us 877 00:55:39,196 --> 00:55:43,796 Speaker 1: being a group and with Adam. As I say, with 878 00:55:44,316 --> 00:55:48,556 Speaker 1: where the streets of her name, what's technically correct, it's 879 00:55:48,596 --> 00:55:53,316 Speaker 1: not really here nor there? Really, Yeah, let's talk about 880 00:55:53,356 --> 00:55:56,716 Speaker 1: walk On and tell me what you remember about the 881 00:55:56,756 --> 00:55:59,476 Speaker 1: origination of walk On and the writing of it. In 882 00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:01,956 Speaker 1: the development of that song, it's one of my very favorites. 883 00:56:02,716 --> 00:56:06,796 Speaker 1: I think what started was a set of chords in 884 00:56:06,876 --> 00:56:10,596 Speaker 1: an idea that I had worked up at home and 885 00:56:11,156 --> 00:56:14,596 Speaker 1: brought it to the sessions and everyone thought it was 886 00:56:14,796 --> 00:56:17,276 Speaker 1: really promising, so we started working on it as a band, 887 00:56:17,956 --> 00:56:21,716 Speaker 1: did a couple of versions, and then we like this 888 00:56:21,876 --> 00:56:25,476 Speaker 1: particular take, so we started working on it and Bono 889 00:56:25,596 --> 00:56:30,676 Speaker 1: was working on melodic ideas and we kicked around for 890 00:56:30,716 --> 00:56:33,356 Speaker 1: a while, but it didn't seem to come good. It 891 00:56:33,516 --> 00:56:38,556 Speaker 1: just was something was not working. So I think at 892 00:56:38,556 --> 00:56:42,836 Speaker 1: one point Brian said, where did these chords come from? 893 00:56:42,956 --> 00:56:45,796 Speaker 1: I said, well, I worked on them at home, and 894 00:56:46,316 --> 00:56:50,676 Speaker 1: he said, I think that's the problem. So I took 895 00:56:50,716 --> 00:56:52,756 Speaker 1: that and I went, now, I could I could have 896 00:56:52,756 --> 00:56:56,036 Speaker 1: been insulted, but in fact I just want I think 897 00:56:56,036 --> 00:56:59,796 Speaker 1: he's absolutely right. I think there's a flaw in this 898 00:56:59,956 --> 00:57:03,676 Speaker 1: course sequence. So I went away and worked and came 899 00:57:03,716 --> 00:57:06,636 Speaker 1: back said, okay, let's try this, and it was not 900 00:57:06,756 --> 00:57:11,116 Speaker 1: radically different, but it was actually a different chord progression, 901 00:57:11,596 --> 00:57:14,956 Speaker 1: and the song just almost wrote itself after that, and 902 00:57:15,436 --> 00:57:19,196 Speaker 1: we all got involved in sort of throwing ideas for 903 00:57:20,156 --> 00:57:25,196 Speaker 1: different sections melodically. But again, once you got the log 904 00:57:25,276 --> 00:57:29,236 Speaker 1: jam out of the way, it's just the thing really 905 00:57:29,276 --> 00:57:33,236 Speaker 1: sort of almost wrote itself. So so lyrically, walk On, 906 00:57:33,956 --> 00:57:38,556 Speaker 1: Walk On, that was a big breakthrough. That came as 907 00:57:38,556 --> 00:57:41,436 Speaker 1: a result of this change of the chords, and we 908 00:57:41,436 --> 00:57:44,676 Speaker 1: were at that time very inspired by the leader of 909 00:57:44,716 --> 00:57:48,396 Speaker 1: the Democratic movement in mymar who had been under house 910 00:57:48,476 --> 00:57:50,716 Speaker 1: arrest for a number of years, and we had just 911 00:57:50,756 --> 00:57:55,236 Speaker 1: received the freedom of Dublin City, a great honor, and 912 00:57:55,436 --> 00:57:59,716 Speaker 1: she had been honored at the same ceremony. Her son 913 00:57:59,756 --> 00:58:01,876 Speaker 1: came along to accept on her behalf because she was 914 00:58:01,876 --> 00:58:05,236 Speaker 1: in jail. So that was the first time we really 915 00:58:05,276 --> 00:58:09,036 Speaker 1: became aware of her story. So that's just a great 916 00:58:09,196 --> 00:58:15,036 Speaker 1: example of something that's almost good, that's almost being your enemy. 917 00:58:15,436 --> 00:58:18,476 Speaker 1: And we did waste we probably wasted in hours trying 918 00:58:18,516 --> 00:58:21,716 Speaker 1: to make this first version work. The other thing about 919 00:58:21,756 --> 00:58:23,956 Speaker 1: it that has so much power, and I think it's 920 00:58:23,996 --> 00:58:27,676 Speaker 1: different than other YouTube songs, is that it continues to unfold. 921 00:58:27,716 --> 00:58:31,036 Speaker 1: It's got the home section kind of late late in 922 00:58:31,076 --> 00:58:33,556 Speaker 1: the song, when it feels like the song would be ending, 923 00:58:34,236 --> 00:58:38,356 Speaker 1: we have this beautiful bridge and then there's the all 924 00:58:38,516 --> 00:58:40,636 Speaker 1: the all that you repeat, all that You is at 925 00:58:40,636 --> 00:58:44,516 Speaker 1: the end. It really takes us on a journey. Yeah 926 00:58:44,756 --> 00:58:47,236 Speaker 1: that most songs, don't, you know. Most songs are three 927 00:58:47,236 --> 00:58:49,116 Speaker 1: and a half minutes or four minutes, But this one 928 00:58:49,236 --> 00:58:53,756 Speaker 1: feels like it goes the extra two extra levels of 929 00:58:54,436 --> 00:58:59,396 Speaker 1: taking us on this adventure. Yeah, and I think those 930 00:58:59,436 --> 00:59:03,716 Speaker 1: different sections we're all attempts to solve the songwriting problem. 931 00:59:03,756 --> 00:59:07,436 Speaker 1: And then we had this collection of great moments, so 932 00:59:07,476 --> 00:59:10,076 Speaker 1: the real challenge is trying to sew it all together 933 00:59:10,116 --> 00:59:13,436 Speaker 1: in this sort of coherent way. It was arranging and 934 00:59:13,476 --> 00:59:16,796 Speaker 1: it was it was sort of a dynamic journey that 935 00:59:16,836 --> 00:59:19,916 Speaker 1: we had to establish. And then the most recent version, 936 00:59:19,916 --> 00:59:23,276 Speaker 1: which is on the Songs of Surrender collection, Bonno and 937 00:59:23,356 --> 00:59:25,956 Speaker 1: I had done a very stripped down version of the 938 00:59:25,996 --> 00:59:29,796 Speaker 1: song on an Irish TV show. We thought, well, let's 939 00:59:29,836 --> 00:59:34,516 Speaker 1: try let's try walk on at this particular show. What's 940 00:59:34,556 --> 00:59:36,716 Speaker 1: the minimum version we can do. It's like it came 941 00:59:36,796 --> 00:59:40,676 Speaker 1: up with this acoustic part which only hints at the chords, 942 00:59:40,956 --> 00:59:44,516 Speaker 1: but just enough so the melody makes sense. So then 943 00:59:44,556 --> 00:59:48,036 Speaker 1: we took that and we were recording it for the 944 00:59:48,076 --> 00:59:53,276 Speaker 1: Songs of Surrender project. And almost that day or a 945 00:59:53,276 --> 00:59:56,476 Speaker 1: few days before, we first heard about the Russian invasion 946 00:59:56,516 --> 01:00:01,476 Speaker 1: of Ukraine. And Bonno had actually met President Zelenski at 947 01:00:01,756 --> 01:00:04,276 Speaker 1: at an event like a couple of years before, so 948 01:00:04,356 --> 01:00:06,316 Speaker 1: he had actually had a chance to get to know 949 01:00:06,356 --> 01:00:09,956 Speaker 1: him a little bit, and he knew that he was 950 01:00:10,516 --> 01:00:13,516 Speaker 1: before becoming a politician, had been an actor and a 951 01:00:13,916 --> 01:00:16,916 Speaker 1: stand up comic. In fact, he did apparently he did 952 01:00:17,036 --> 01:00:22,276 Speaker 1: a open mic session in Drahada in the late nineties, 953 01:00:22,436 --> 01:00:26,596 Speaker 1: you know. So it's like we were so struck by 954 01:00:26,636 --> 01:00:30,716 Speaker 1: the sense that the person standing up to this bully, 955 01:00:31,236 --> 01:00:35,956 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin and and kind of protecting the idea of 956 01:00:35,996 --> 01:00:41,516 Speaker 1: democracy against the threat of a totalitarian ideology was a 957 01:00:41,556 --> 01:00:45,596 Speaker 1: stand up comic, a guy who is the least likely person. 958 01:00:46,116 --> 01:00:49,236 Speaker 1: So that became the basis of a new set of 959 01:00:49,316 --> 01:00:52,076 Speaker 1: lyrics for a Walk On which we've put on this 960 01:00:52,156 --> 01:00:56,916 Speaker 1: new collection Beautiful. I think to end, I'm going to 961 01:00:57,076 --> 01:01:01,476 Speaker 1: play the new version of Every Breaking Wave, because it's 962 01:01:01,476 --> 01:01:04,156 Speaker 1: a song. It's a song I've loved. I loved the 963 01:01:04,196 --> 01:01:07,676 Speaker 1: original version, I love this version, and something about hearing 964 01:01:07,716 --> 01:01:11,796 Speaker 1: it in its intimate form really allows it to shine. 965 01:01:12,196 --> 01:01:14,796 Speaker 1: So I will play that. Thank you for that, and 966 01:01:14,836 --> 01:01:17,596 Speaker 1: we will listen and thank you for doing this today. 967 01:01:18,636 --> 01:01:21,436 Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure, Rick, and we'll definitely we 968 01:01:21,556 --> 01:01:45,996 Speaker 1: have to do this again. We will Every Breaking Way 969 01:01:46,996 --> 01:01:52,716 Speaker 1: on the Shore tails the next one. There'll be one more, 970 01:01:53,476 --> 01:02:00,596 Speaker 1: and every Gambler knows that's a loose is what you're 971 01:02:00,636 --> 01:02:09,396 Speaker 1: really Therefore, summer hours far listeness now I speak, came 972 01:02:09,636 --> 01:02:16,316 Speaker 1: to an answer phone like every father, all the breeze, 973 01:02:18,076 --> 01:02:28,716 Speaker 1: winter would leave it alone. If you go, if you 974 01:02:29,116 --> 01:02:38,196 Speaker 1: go your way? And I gom a wiser, always so 975 01:02:38,876 --> 01:02:46,676 Speaker 1: helpless against the time. Maybe every time of the boostream 976 01:02:46,956 --> 01:02:51,636 Speaker 1: knows that we're in love with the food. Are we 977 01:02:51,836 --> 01:02:58,396 Speaker 1: ready at you beswift off our feet and stop chasing 978 01:03:00,156 --> 01:03:14,196 Speaker 1: and breaking away? And every sale knows at the scene 979 01:03:16,156 --> 01:03:22,876 Speaker 1: is a friend made enemy, and every shipwreck so knows 980 01:03:22,996 --> 01:03:29,476 Speaker 1: what it is to live without into sea. I thought 981 01:03:29,556 --> 01:03:35,076 Speaker 1: I had the captain's voice, but it's hard to listen 982 01:03:36,236 --> 01:03:44,396 Speaker 1: while you preach, like every broken on the shore. This 983 01:03:44,756 --> 01:03:51,076 Speaker 1: is as far as I could read. If you go, 984 01:03:54,516 --> 01:04:04,356 Speaker 1: if you go in a coma, Are we soul always 985 01:04:04,396 --> 01:04:10,676 Speaker 1: so help us against the tide? Baby ever t on 986 01:04:11,196 --> 01:04:16,596 Speaker 1: the street and knows that we're in love with truth? 987 01:04:17,556 --> 01:04:23,156 Speaker 1: Are we ready to the swifts off our feet and 988 01:04:23,436 --> 01:04:41,756 Speaker 1: stop chasing breaking the sea knows other rocks trying his nosing. 989 01:04:42,596 --> 01:04:47,276 Speaker 1: You know the hottest see place yours has been. We 990 01:04:47,556 --> 01:04:51,756 Speaker 1: know that the fitter we sorely and before we pick it, 991 01:04:52,756 --> 01:05:04,756 Speaker 1: before we begin if you go, if you got, are 992 01:05:04,836 --> 01:05:14,596 Speaker 1: we soon? Are we shook handless against her time? Even 993 01:05:14,596 --> 01:05:22,916 Speaker 1: every dog on the street knows they're wearing life? Are 994 01:05:23,036 --> 01:05:29,236 Speaker 1: we read it to be? Swift? Feet can't stop you 995 01:05:29,516 --> 01:06:11,036 Speaker 1: saying breaking a breaking way, re breaking? We were breaking breaking. 996 01:06:35,636 --> 01:06:38,316 Speaker 1: Thanks to the Edge for catching up with Rick YouTube's 997 01:06:38,356 --> 01:06:41,916 Speaker 1: new album, Songs of Surrender is out now. We can 998 01:06:41,996 --> 01:06:44,316 Speaker 1: hear all of our favorite YouTube songs on our playlist 999 01:06:44,316 --> 01:06:47,876 Speaker 1: at broken Record podcast dot com. Can subscribe to our 1000 01:06:47,876 --> 01:06:51,476 Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, 1001 01:06:51,596 --> 01:06:54,756 Speaker 1: where you can find all of our new episodes. You 1002 01:06:54,796 --> 01:06:58,516 Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record 1003 01:06:58,596 --> 01:07:02,396 Speaker 1: is produced with Helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Naladay, and 1004 01:07:02,676 --> 01:07:06,956 Speaker 1: Eric Samer. Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is 1005 01:07:06,956 --> 01:07:09,756 Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show 1006 01:07:09,796 --> 01:07:13,836 Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin 1007 01:07:13,876 --> 01:07:17,236 Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an 1008 01:07:17,276 --> 01:07:20,396 Speaker 1: uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. 1009 01:07:20,796 --> 01:07:24,236 Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if 1010 01:07:24,236 --> 01:07:26,436 Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share, rate and 1011 01:07:26,476 --> 01:07:29,556 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast app. Our theme musics by 1012 01:07:29,596 --> 01:07:31,676 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rischman,