1
00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

2
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:09,400
Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

3
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,399
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

4
00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

5
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,279
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

6
00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by the twenty twenty three National

7
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 2: Dear Association Deer Manager of the Year, Doug Durrean, to

8
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,239
Speaker 2: discuss a more holistic approach to managing wildlife habitat for

9
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:46,279
Speaker 2: deer and other critics. All right, welcome back to the

10
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 2: Wired Done podcast, brought to you by First Light and

11
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 2: their Camo for Conservation initiative, which supports the National Deer Association.

12
00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,680
Speaker 2: But today's episode is with the recipient of an award

13
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 2: from the NBA just recently. It is my friend, mister

14
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 2: Doug duran He is a land consultant. He is a

15
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 2: well known modern philosopher of the hunting and conservation world.

16
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 2: I'd say he's a really good guy. He's a wise

17
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 2: man and a friend, and he today is joining me

18
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 2: to do two things. Number One, we're gonna chat a

19
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,640
Speaker 2: little bit about the hunt that I share with him.

20
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,960
Speaker 2: This past season in September, as he gave me access

21
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,280
Speaker 2: to a nearby farm through his Sharing the Land program

22
00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,479
Speaker 2: on which I was able to hunt killed a really

23
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,759
Speaker 2: nice buck and a dough out there back in September.

24
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,319
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about that hunt a little bit.

25
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about his Sharing the Land program,

26
00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,840
Speaker 2: which helps connect landowners with access seekers, folks who want

27
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 2: to get out there and find a place like can hunt.

28
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 2: He's got a really cool way to help people do that.

29
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,280
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about that, and then we're

30
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 2: going to spend the bulk of our time together talking

31
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 2: through Doug's approach to managing wildlife habitat, managing is private property,

32
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: managing the during family farm in a way that's good

33
00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,440
Speaker 2: for deer. It's good for deer hunting, but it's also

34
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,079
Speaker 2: good for the rest of the ecosystem. We talk about

35
00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,839
Speaker 2: this biotic focus, the larger biotic community, the larger ecosystem,

36
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 2: and how we can do things that are good for

37
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,919
Speaker 2: our hunting but also good for everything else out there.

38
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,239
Speaker 2: This is the theme I talked a pretty good amount

39
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,720
Speaker 2: back during the Back forty Project for those of you

40
00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,400
Speaker 2: who remember that show in that time period, but I

41
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,520
Speaker 2: want to bring it back to the table here today

42
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 2: because we are kicking off a month long series on

43
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 2: habitat work, and one of the themes I want to

44
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 2: continue to return to is how we can utilize the

45
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 2: properties that we manage not just for shooting deer, but

46
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,360
Speaker 2: also to make sure that everything else around us is

47
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 2: flourishing too, because all of these things are connected. So

48
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 2: the fate of the birds and the bees and the

49
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 2: rabbits and the soil and all that stuff is intricately

50
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,919
Speaker 2: intertwined with the white tailed deer and all the other

51
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 2: things that we care about, you know obviously as hunters.

52
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 2: So what we're gonna try to explore here today with

53
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 2: Doug and probably in some of the other conversations this

54
00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,800
Speaker 2: month is how we can do these kinds of projects

55
00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,359
Speaker 2: in ways that help our hunting and everything else and

56
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:24,839
Speaker 2: it all circles back. So that's the plan today, That's

57
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 2: the conversation we're going to have. We're gonna have some

58
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 2: other folks this month that are more tactic focused. We're

59
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,519
Speaker 2: going to talk to some people that are going to be,

60
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 2: you know, talking through how to strategically place or create

61
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,280
Speaker 2: food plots or strategically create betting improvements or different ways

62
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,520
Speaker 2: we can funnel deer through a landscape the way we want.

63
00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 2: But that's that's not today. Today, we're going to take

64
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 2: a kind of thirty thousand foot over you. We're gonna

65
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 2: step back, and we are going to look at you know,

66
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 2: how can we approach this habitat management way with a

67
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,520
Speaker 2: little bit more diverse viewpoint? I suppose so, as I mentioned,

68
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,640
Speaker 2: the first part of the conversation is a little bit

69
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 2: more hunt focused as far as our story and my

70
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 2: experience with Doug. If you just want to get right

71
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 2: to the habitat conversation, fast forward, maybe about thirty ish minutes,

72
00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,880
Speaker 2: that's about when we get into the habitat dialogue. I

73
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,480
Speaker 2: think it's some good ideas. There's gonna be some good

74
00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,360
Speaker 2: ideas for us all to ponder. There are some good

75
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,720
Speaker 2: questions to think about, and hopefully this will leave you

76
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 2: with a few new ideas, maybe a new way of

77
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,160
Speaker 2: looking at things, and some inspiration to get out there

78
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 2: and get to work on your own back forty if

79
00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 2: you have one, or volunteer on a friend's property, or

80
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 2: volunteer in public land, any way that you can get

81
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 2: out there and get your hands dirty. Improving habitat for critters.

82
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 2: It's fun, it helps, it makes a difference, and I've

83
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,479
Speaker 2: certainly seen the positive benefits in my own life. So

84
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 2: that's my pitch today. Hope you guys enjoyed the episode.

85
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 2: Thanks for being here. Now let's get to my chat

86
00:04:52,720 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 2: with mister Doug durrec All right here with me now

87
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 2: on the line is my pal, mister Doug Duran. Welcome

88
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,159
Speaker 2: back to the show. Doug.

89
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me Mark. This is fantastic, great

90
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:10,720
Speaker 3: to catch up.

91
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,599
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure and I love any excuse to

92
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 2: get to chat with you more, but today is extra special.

93
00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 2: I've got to embarrass you by talking about in front

94
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 2: of you the fact that you are not only famous

95
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,240
Speaker 2: now but award winning. You are the famous and award

96
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:39,359
Speaker 2: winning National Dear Association Dear Manager of the Year now, Doug, congratulations.

97
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 3: Thank you, Mark, and congratulations to you. I can turn

98
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 3: that right around on you to and being appointed to

99
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,039
Speaker 3: the board of Directors for NBA, And it's great that

100
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 3: we're both involved with the organization and it's really I

101
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 3: think it's been really gratifying to see how the organization

102
00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 3: has evolved, and I think by awarding me, uh, in

103
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,919
Speaker 3: my efforts this this award, it's maybe a you know,

104
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,080
Speaker 3: they're they're really highlighting the kind of stuff that we've

105
00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,640
Speaker 3: been working on, and I think that's the most important thing, right,

106
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,600
Speaker 3: the ideas that we've that I've been working on a

107
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 3: group of people that I've been working on it with

108
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 3: and you know, and how that impacts the bigger conservation

109
00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 3: community and and deer and deer hunting. So yeah, thank you.

110
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,040
Speaker 3: But it's that that's the cool part about it about

111
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,600
Speaker 3: it for me, is that it's highlighting all these ideas

112
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 3: and and uh and other folks that are working with me.

113
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a great example of

114
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,040
Speaker 2: NDA putting their money where their mouth is kind of

115
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 2: and and showcasing someone who's you know, doing the work

116
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,240
Speaker 2: that that we want to be doing and talking about

117
00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 2: and using your platform. And it's and it's not just

118
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 2: about killing a big giant buck, right, It's it's really

119
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 2: about the bigger picture kind of things, which we'll be

120
00:06:58,600 --> 00:06:59,599
Speaker 2: talking a lot about today.

121
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,080
Speaker 3: So it's sure, yeah, great and maybe slightly controversial. I mean,

122
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,719
Speaker 3: I wouldn't I wouldn't shy away from the fact that

123
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,320
Speaker 3: there are times when I say things that are in

124
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,800
Speaker 3: stand for things that there might be people in our

125
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 3: community that would have a little bit of issue with.

126
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 3: And but I think that I think that not only NDA,

127
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 3: but you know, guys like you and I can have

128
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 3: these conversations and sort of thinking evolves over time and

129
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,000
Speaker 3: and so that's, uh, that's part of it as well.

130
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's well deserved. So I'm happy for you.

131
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: I'm glad you got that recognition. I'm glad that people

132
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 2: are seeing you know. I don't think there's many people

133
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,280
Speaker 2: who have not yet been exposed to you and what

134
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 2: you're doing. But if this is an opportunity for more

135
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,040
Speaker 2: people to be exposed to that, I'm very glad for that.

136
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 2: So so that being said, then I want to rewind

137
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 2: the clock maybe four months now, four or five, four

138
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 2: months something like that, back to September when you were

139
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,480
Speaker 2: so gracious as to have me out to your farmhouse

140
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 2: to spend some time hunting in your neck of the woods.

141
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 2: We didn't get to do a podcast right after that.

142
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 2: I did a show with Tony talking about the story

143
00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,440
Speaker 2: from my perspective. But today, what I was hoping to do,

144
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,280
Speaker 2: if you think this is a decent idea, I was

145
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,240
Speaker 2: hoping to spend a little time kind of getting your

146
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,040
Speaker 2: your perspective on my time there and my hunt there.

147
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about how I

148
00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 2: got access in your program that I kind of got

149
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 2: to trial run, and then I want to talk about

150
00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 2: a little bit of what you alluded to there second ago,

151
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,040
Speaker 2: which is kind of what you and your property has

152
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 2: come to represent or stand for in the deer hunting community.

153
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 2: So that's that's my framework. I just want to make

154
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,719
Speaker 2: sure you know I prepared for this, Doug. And with

155
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 2: that said, I came, I hunted, We spent some time together,

156
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,680
Speaker 2: we had some great conversations, and then before you knew it,

157
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,320
Speaker 2: I was gone. What did you think about our time together?

158
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 2: What did you think about what was your perspective on

159
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 2: the hunt? The story?

160
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 3: Well, I have to say that one of the things

161
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 3: I like about you and people that I become friends

162
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 3: with and stay friends with, it's almost as if the

163
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,959
Speaker 3: conversation never ends, right. It's like, sure, there's segments to it,

164
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 3: but I felt like when you pulled in, you and

165
00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,160
Speaker 3: Lauren pulled in, and we had done some preliminary discussions,

166
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,360
Speaker 3: but you guys pulled in, and you know, I'd worked

167
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 3: with Lauren before, certainly have been hanging around with you

168
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 3: long enough, and it was just like we just picked

169
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 3: up kind of where we left off. Yeah that the

170
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 3: same birds under the saddles are still there, but the

171
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 3: good fun part of it was still there. And the

172
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,680
Speaker 3: real disc ushians that we've had about deer hunting and

173
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 3: conservation and land management and and philosophy and all of that,

174
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 3: we just picked it up. So from my perspective, we

175
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 3: had a bit of an outline. I mean, it was heck,

176
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,040
Speaker 3: it was that you got here on the opening weekend

177
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 3: of the bow season, which I think was like the

178
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 3: fifteenth or sixteenth of September this year. Nobody hunts here

179
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 3: that early, which was a really interesting thing for me,

180
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,000
Speaker 3: you know know, and then I'm not a bow hunter, uh,

181
00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 3: to kind of see how that was going to play out.

182
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,360
Speaker 3: Honestly as a little like, I hope this works out

183
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,160
Speaker 3: pretty well, because I know there's always a little bit

184
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 3: of pressure to to produce and you know, and especially

185
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 3: here at the Durham Farm, where it seems like every

186
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,840
Speaker 3: time cameras show up that we have great success and

187
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,160
Speaker 3: great fun and all of that, and but that's it's

188
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 3: almost like how times you how many times you do something,

189
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 3: you still get that feeling in the pit of your stomach, right,

190
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,079
Speaker 3: And that's one of the cool things about hunting. So

191
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,440
Speaker 3: what I thought was most interesting about it was that

192
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,000
Speaker 3: you and I had some exchanges. We went back and

193
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 3: forth on with some onyx maps, and you know, I

194
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 3: pointed out a couple of things, and you asked some

195
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 3: really good questions about what's going on up there. And

196
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 3: I should point out the folks that because of some

197
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 3: arrangements that I have with bow hunters. With with some

198
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 3: bow hunters, I didn't want to hunt have you hunt

199
00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,440
Speaker 3: the farm, but I have I managed the property next

200
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,960
Speaker 3: door and have the hunting rights for it as well,

201
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,720
Speaker 3: so I was able to give you access to that.

202
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 3: And my friend who who's a part of that program

203
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,880
Speaker 3: with me over there, Chip Bird, also was gracious enough

204
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,080
Speaker 3: to say, heck, yeah, I have Mark he can hunt

205
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 3: over there. And so we don't know that property that well.

206
00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,839
Speaker 3: I know this place like the back of my hand,

207
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 3: so that time of the year, a bowhunter taking the

208
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 3: thoughts and the stuff that I have noticed. Having that

209
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 3: exchange and then you pulling in and we had a

210
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 3: really good conversation about where you're gonna hunt, how you're

211
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 3: gonna hunt, and well it all worked out pretty well.

212
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 3: So from that standpoint, it was a really cool It

213
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 3: was a really cool beginning to it and then sort

214
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 3: of the setup and it wasn't anything different than I

215
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,679
Speaker 3: would I do, like with my bow hunter guys who

216
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 3: come here the short standards as I like to call them,

217
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,719
Speaker 3: those guys, you know, they come and they ask a

218
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,439
Speaker 3: lot of questions and then they go out and kind

219
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 3: of do things on their own. You kind of went,

220
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 3: you went a little bit different than that. Really, you

221
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,920
Speaker 3: really were interested in what my perspective was on it all,

222
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 3: and I guess you were most interested in the local

223
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 3: knowledge there, and there's nobody more local than me. So

224
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,600
Speaker 3: I thought it was we had great fun, We have

225
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,520
Speaker 3: good you have good success. I thought we had great fun.

226
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't argue with that at all. It was

227
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,960
Speaker 2: a it was a really good time. And I do

228
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,240
Speaker 2: think that, you know when when whenever I go to

229
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,560
Speaker 2: hunt a new place, the fun of it is putting

230
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 2: this puzzle together. Right, You've got like a blank slate

231
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,560
Speaker 2: and you're slowly trying to put things together, and so

232
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,880
Speaker 2: you arrive to a brand new place like this and

233
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, I've been able to look at the

234
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 2: maps online and I've got all these ideas and I

235
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 2: have assumptions, but then coming in it's like, hey, you know,

236
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,599
Speaker 2: if you have the opportunity to like fact check a

237
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 2: little bit, why not. So so yeah, some of the

238
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,240
Speaker 2: most valuable time spent. There's two things that were the

239
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 2: most important for me. One was when I got is

240
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,080
Speaker 2: from a hunting perspective to clarify. One when we arrived

241
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 2: there and we've got that big map on the wall

242
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,559
Speaker 2: of farmhouse and I was like, hey, Doug, let's talk

243
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,120
Speaker 2: about the map. And I was like, here are the

244
00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 2: things that I was looking at, and I was thinking

245
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,439
Speaker 2: and and is that right? Is this really what this

246
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,200
Speaker 2: thing is? Or is this really what I think it is?

247
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:04,440
Speaker 3: Here?

248
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,560
Speaker 2: And you're like, oh yeah, that thing's this thing. You're like,

249
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,760
Speaker 2: oh no, not that that And then you or one

250
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 2: of your buddies there mentioned, oh yeah, I'm down in

251
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,160
Speaker 2: that spot. I was pointing at this drainage and they're like, yeah,

252
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 2: down that drainage, there's apple trees. And when I heard that,

253
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 2: that was like whoa. That was like such a key

254
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 2: little thing that I would not have known from just

255
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 2: looking at the maps, right. But as soon as I

256
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 2: heard that, I knew, like, okay, we got zero in

257
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,280
Speaker 2: on that and pay attention to that. So that was

258
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 2: number one. And then the second thing, you know, the

259
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 2: first night I rushed into it, I was I was

260
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 2: over excited and I wanted to hunt, and I thought, okay,

261
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,600
Speaker 2: I can hunt based off of just what I think

262
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,960
Speaker 2: is there on the map. And so I went. And

263
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 2: you know, as you know, that first night, it was

264
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 2: different than I expected. Where I went, it didn't work

265
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 2: out the way I thought. I couldn't see what I

266
00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 2: was hoping i'd be able to see. I was assuming

267
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,560
Speaker 2: i'd be all to see a lot and learn a lot,

268
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 2: and I just didn't put myself on the right spot.

269
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 2: So that next morning, you know, I told you just like, hey,

270
00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 2: you know what, I don't think I should hunt tomorrow morning.

271
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 2: Think I need to like lay eyes on a few

272
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 2: more things. And and you know, we talked about the

273
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 2: fact that you drive around on your side by side

274
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,120
Speaker 2: a lot, and I thought, you know, I wonder if

275
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,840
Speaker 2: I could just tag along with you as you drive

276
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 2: around to you know, pretend like you're doing your farm chores,

277
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 2: and I could see a couple of these things, like

278
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,400
Speaker 2: with my own eyes and maybe actually set up a stand,

279
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 2: you know, without the deer noticing anything's different than Doug

280
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 2: doing his normal stuff. And and so that was that

281
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 2: was key because that was what allowed me to go

282
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 2: and see that apple tree spot that seemed so intriguing

283
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 2: and then be able to confirm like, oh, yes, this

284
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,560
Speaker 2: is exactly what I hoped, and then be able to

285
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 2: get in there and get set up in the right

286
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:42,320
Speaker 2: spot with you know, the cover of the UTV being there.

287
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,600
Speaker 2: You know, if if I try to go in there

288
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 2: without that, you know, those bucks might have been bedded

289
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,920
Speaker 2: nearby and spooked out of there, and maybe they wouldn't

290
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 2: have moved through in daylight two days later, the dough

291
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,880
Speaker 2: might have spooked worse and not have been there the

292
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:58,880
Speaker 2: next day. So so those two things were huge, and uh,

293
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 2: you know, wouldn't have beenossible if I didn't have your

294
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 2: local knowledge and your amazing chauffeuring skills there on the

295
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,000
Speaker 2: side by side. So thank you for that.

296
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the old canam comes in handy, and you

297
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,880
Speaker 3: know it's a that a that was an interesting little

298
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 3: drive and I'm glad we were ready, right, I mean,

299
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 3: part of it was Okay, I'll just take you by here,

300
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 3: and you're like, no, no, I think i'd like to

301
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 3: be ready to go and maybe set up, because why

302
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 3: you drive by there twice? Right? So we went by

303
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,560
Speaker 3: and I kind of went there's the apple tree, and

304
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,560
Speaker 3: what about that walnut tree over there? And I don't

305
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 3: know it was thirty five or forty yard distance, but

306
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:43,240
Speaker 3: a farm road that goes up through there that gets

307
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,360
Speaker 3: traveled a lot. So we went past it. I slowed down.

308
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 3: You kind of looked at both and I remember your

309
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 3: eyes kind of like this. I like the looks of this.

310
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,280
Speaker 3: We went up past, like I would often do, just

311
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 3: checking on things. I turned around, came back down. I

312
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 3: never shut it, can am off. I just sat there.

313
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 3: Lauren stood up in the back. You hopped out, and

314
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 3: I'm just observing you this whole time, because you know,

315
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm taking lessons from the master, and watched you go

316
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,960
Speaker 3: over there. SA same look when you're up in the tree.

317
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 3: You got up in there and you looked over and

318
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 3: your eyes were really big, like this is really nice.

319
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 3: If you remember, there's the cornfield that we drove up

320
00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,199
Speaker 3: through that that road comes up through. There's water and

321
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 3: tag alders down on that bottom, which comes into play later,

322
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 3: of course, and then betting area up above, and gee,

323
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,119
Speaker 3: you know, it's just there's just so much about the

324
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 3: terrain of that property was so cool. And I don't know, Mark,

325
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 3: were you in there ten minutes? It seemed like you

326
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:46,400
Speaker 3: got in and out of there.

327
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 2: You had to get set up. Yeah, it was something

328
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 2: like that was pretty quick. I just I remember getting

329
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,479
Speaker 2: in there, getting my sticks and saddle platform up there.

330
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,640
Speaker 2: I trimmed a couple of branches confirmed range on where

331
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 2: I thought deer might come through, and then it was

332
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 2: slip right out to walk my exact path back in,

333
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 2: so I didn't lay any more scent than I had to.

334
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,280
Speaker 2: I noticed that, and off we went.

335
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was and I mean it was a slick setup.

336
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 3: And then you left it alone until the next morning,

337
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 3: as I recall. Yeah, and then and you parked over

338
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 3: by the buildings, walked in on that road where again

339
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 3: there had already been that the tractor and the ATV

340
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 3: and the farmer goes up to the ridge over there.

341
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,160
Speaker 3: All that activity had been there. So you guys really

342
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 3: were able to make a pretty stealthy entry there.

343
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, worked out, worked up very very well. Even

344
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be good, but I

345
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 2: could not have predicted that it could have been that good, right,

346
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 2: two days in a row, two deer, I mean, it was,

347
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 2: it was. It was the dream scenario. It's everything that

348
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: you hope for. But you know, nine times out of

349
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,320
Speaker 2: ten when you find a spot that you think will

350
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,400
Speaker 2: be great, you know, nine point nine times at ten,

351
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,359
Speaker 2: even the best spots don't actually work out, right, So

352
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 2: it really really worked out.

353
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 3: You know. I know you've told the story when you

354
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,840
Speaker 3: were talking with Tony that so that first morning you

355
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 3: killed that dough and you knew you had killed her,

356
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 3: but being the ethical hunter that you are, you gave

357
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 3: it an hour before you went after and she went

358
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 3: right into those tag holders down there in the bottom.

359
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 3: And you know, I remember marketing it on Onyx and

360
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 3: looking at it and everything, and that deer wasn't that

361
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 3: dear wasn't one hundred yards from where you shot it? Yeah,

362
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 3: I mean pretty much straight to the west. And when

363
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 3: we're getting that call from you, gee, this is really strange,

364
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 3: and you are describing what happened to me, he said, Well,

365
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 3: I already took the head off of it because it's

366
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 3: clearly the deer that I shot, but it's half eaten.

367
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 3: And what an interesting thing when folks get a chance

368
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 3: to see this whole thing. When with with the the

369
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 3: episode that you put out, I'd asked him to look

370
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 3: at bobcat activity. Since then, there was a whole kind

371
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,199
Speaker 3: of speculation, Right, we have a neighbor who's got a

372
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 3: beer on it. Yeah, And I remember Ronella was like,

373
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: as a coyo, you know, so, yeah, this doesn't look

374
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 3: like what a coyo does at all. And there's a

375
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 3: bear in the area, so maybe that. But that thing

376
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 3: had to be right on top of it, right, I mean,

377
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 3: it had to run by it and smell it. But

378
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 3: then recently I've seen some studies and some work done

379
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 3: on bobcats, and I remember how it had to hide,

380
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 3: peeled back and it it's like it removed the back

381
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 3: strap and clean that was taking the meat between the

382
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,360
Speaker 3: ribs hadn't really actually the rear end hardly at all

383
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 3: like a coyot typically would. To see all that was

384
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 3: just I was just fascinating to me, and I know

385
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,159
Speaker 3: to you. We speculated about a lot. I actually got

386
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 3: a lot of questions about it. And then putting the

387
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 3: trail camera up and getting nothing.

388
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: That was the most surprising. I couldn't believe that something

389
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: else didn't come to get get a piece of it too.

390
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 3: Well, the kyote went by and kind of gave it

391
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 3: a glance like this, and that was it.

392
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 2: Really weird.

393
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 3: Vultures and a hawk And then after about a week

394
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 3: a grinner apossum got in there and he worked on

395
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 3: it for a while. But yeah, it was pretty, Uh,

396
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 3: it was really interesting. The whole thing was really interesting.

397
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: There was something foreboating about it when we got there

398
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:43,959
Speaker 3: and looked at it.

399
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like the rest of the wildlife in

400
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 2: the area kind of felt the same way, apparently because

401
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 2: they steered clear. There was something something not quite right. Well,

402
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: it would have been interesting, you know, if that was

403
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: a diseased deer, you could have wondered, like, I, can

404
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,720
Speaker 2: they sense something here? But she wasn't. She was not

405
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 2: CWD positive, So it wasn't like there was some kind

406
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: of problem that, you know, a predator could possibly somehow sense,

407
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: you know, I don't. I don't know if that's a thing,

408
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't know what. I have no explanation

409
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,480
Speaker 2: except it was interesting.

410
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 3: And for me from my management perspective, not only from

411
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 3: my deer herd, but also from the disease issues and

412
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 3: all those concerns that I have. Here was a six

413
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 3: to eight year old dough. She was a big old girl.

414
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 3: Obviously we didn't I guess you didn't. There was really

415
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 3: nothing there at salvage after it had been everything that

416
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 3: I'd been done to it. But that she was CWD

417
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 3: wasn't detected was a little bit of a surprise because

418
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 3: it seems like with older deer were getting more of that.

419
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 3: But uh, but not and uh yeah, the whole the

420
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: whole event with that dough was just really uh, it

421
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: was just really interesting. It's it's been on my mind

422
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: ever since. It's just so.

423
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was it was bad luck, bad luck that

424
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: a predator got her so quickly, but on the flip side,

425
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 2: very good luck. And that I killed two mature deer

426
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 2: in your area, that six to eight year old dough

427
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: and then probably a four year old buck and both

428
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: were CWD negative or not positive, I guess as the result.

429
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 2: So so yeah, that was that was lucky and I've

430
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: been happily eating that buck, being very thankful it wasn't positive,

431
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: So that was that worked out? Well? Yeah, So, so

432
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: you talked about the fact that right you have this

433
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: permission next to your farm and you were able to

434
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: grant that to me, and we talked, you know, this

435
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 2: summer about me coming up and hunting with you, and

436
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: we talked about, yo, well maybe I could get you

437
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: access to this property next to us. And then you

438
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: had the idea like, Hey, if you want to hunt here,

439
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 2: why don't we treat it just like anyone else else

440
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 2: in the Sharing the Land program that you run, Doug,

441
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 2: And why don't you run through that process and we

442
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: can kind of, you know, show you what this is like.

443
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: And it gives us a great opportunity to talk about

444
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 2: a little bit And that's what I want to do

445
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: here now, Doug. Is for people that don't know about

446
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: Sharing the Land, Can you give us a rundown of

447
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 2: what the program is? What could someone expect if they

448
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: wanted to get involved in this like I was able to.

449
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 3: So Sharing the Land is a private land access initiative

450
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 3: that myself and a group of other people started a

451
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: few years ago and I've been sort of experimenting with

452
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: and now it's become you know, now it's a real thing.

453
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 3: And it's a it's a cooperator's network in which we

454
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: connect the access seekers and private landowners to the purpose

455
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: of providing conservation cooperation on properties and in exchange for access,

456
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 3: so that access seeker is spending some time helping the

457
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: conservation on a property and in return they get access

458
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: to it in whatever way they work out with the landowner.

459
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: And in some cases it's it's you know, wide open access,

460
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 3: and in other cases it might be very limited. The real

461
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: theme of it is is that people are providing that

462
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: they're they're providing conservation benefits to either that land or

463
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: somewhere else. So one of the questions I first started

464
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: asking people when I when I started thinking about this

465
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: was what's your contribution to conservation? And really it started

466
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: with with me with a guy who had been volunteering

467
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 3: for some of our local conservation programs. Seeing a young

468
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 3: guy and conversation with him. One day, he had told

469
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: me that he lost his his turkey hunting access and

470
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 3: I was like, well, what season do you have and

471
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: he said, well, you know, told me what season. I

472
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: was like, I don't think I have anybody hunting the

473
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 3: farm that weekend or that week So if you don't

474
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 3: find another place, let me know and we'll be able

475
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 3: to work something out on the farm. And he goes, well,

476
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 3: that's very nice of you guys, like, look, man, you're

477
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: volunteering to do this conservation work for the community, not

478
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 3: necessarily on my farm, but for the community. So that

479
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 3: was sort of what motivated me. So sharing theland dot

480
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 3: com is where you go to do it, and there's

481
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: an opportunity for access seekers, which we have a lot of.

482
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 3: And I will tell people right now that Cal and

483
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 3: I did a podcast when we was here recently for

484
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: the deer season and poiwe has just got hundreds of

485
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 3: access seekers and two landowners signed up. So as you

486
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: might imagine, we have a lot of supply on the

487
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, a lot of demand on the access seeker side,

488
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,959
Speaker 3: but less supply. So we're approaching a thousand access seekers

489
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: who have filled out conservation resumes, and these are folks

490
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 3: from all over the country and we have only but

491
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: still a lot I think thirty properties in different parts

492
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: of the country. Interestingly, I get a lot of requests

493
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 3: to hunt here and then we have at there's another

494
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: property that's not far from here that we're just started

495
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 3: getting access to and as you might imagine, landowners are

496
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: a little they like slow walk this in. Access seekers

497
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 3: are like heck, yeah, let's go, and you know, landowners like, well,

498
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 3: let's we'll see how this all works out. So well,

499
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 3: you can understand that a landowner would be a little cautious, right,

500
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: I mean, this is their place, this is their thing,

501
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 3: this is their property. So there's been a lot of

502
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 3: interest from landowners and then they it sort of takes

503
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 3: there's a number of steps we kind of have to

504
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 3: go through with them for them to really embrace this idea.

505
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 3: But the conservation resumes are really important. The fact that

506
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: these access seekers are you know, I mean it's a resume,

507
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: just like if you're applying for a job. And so

508
00:27:53,960 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: with this idea that we're connecting people put your best

509
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: went forward as and not you know, filling them full

510
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 3: of blowny or anything, but that that an access seekert

511
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 3: really has some uh something to offer. And you know,

512
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 3: we've had landowners who are looking for very specific things

513
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: like I need a carpenter or I need a somebody

514
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: helping me with prescribe fire and those sort of things.

515
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 3: And so of course that kind of thing is in

516
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 3: higher demand than somebody goes, oh, I can come and

517
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 3: help you fixed fence or rock roll a ployer or something.

518
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: Pick rock. You can always pick rock. That So when

519
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 3: I when people ask me, well, what can I do

520
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: to make myself more attractive to a landowner, I was like, well,

521
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 3: develop your conservation resume, join an organization like a like

522
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: a Pheasants Forever, or go to you know, university extension classes.

523
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: Go to these landowner days where landowners are learning about

524
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: land management, and go there and learn the same things

525
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 3: that they are in. Gee, you might even meet a

526
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: landowner there. The idea, of course, is that we're trying

527
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: to be a meeting place and a connector. But what

528
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: we really want to do first and foremost is to

529
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 3: highlight these stories and put examples out there, and we've

530
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: been doing that. We recently filmed some stuff with on

531
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 3: X down and we went to a place down in

532
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: Iowa and a farm where it's actually a native seed

533
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: company who became both a sponsor of sharing the land

534
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: but then also became a participating farm. And we had

535
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: about a half a dozen people who came out there

536
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: and who helped for a day of you know, on

537
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 3: a native seed farm, there's a lot of manual work

538
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 3: and some of it was like digging plants undesirables out

539
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 3: of a particular field, and then we were doing hand

540
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: stripping and that kind of stuff. And then we went

541
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 3: back and we filmed the day of hunting as well.

542
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 3: So they are real, you know, great arrangement there, and

543
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: it worked out really well on both sides at a

544
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 3: blast we went pheasant hunting. We've also there's there's these

545
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: properties in North Dakota that I was talking to you

546
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: about that where they're doing shelter belts and removing wire,

547
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 3: but then also doing plant other kinds of plantings. And

548
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: and then the exchange was they got to come back

549
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 3: pretty much whenever they wanted, as long as they contacted

550
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: the landowner to upland bird hunt. One of those landowners

551
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: just contacted me and said that he is also now

552
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: interested in limited deer hunting because they're deer hunters. And

553
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: you know, it's sort of like with me, I'm not one.

554
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 3: I have this arrangement with these bow hunters for the farm,

555
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: and I have the well's lease arrangement that I have

556
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 3: next door. It's a management at Lisa was sort of

557
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 3: a hybrid. I helped manage the property and or you

558
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: were able to hunt. So bow hunting's kind of out here.

559
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 3: And then the opening weekend of gun hunting, my brother

560
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: and my nephews and well, we had a We always

561
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: have something going on, it seems like with with you know, Medior.

562
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 3: This year we had a thing with Canam. But then

563
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: the rest of the season, the people who were my

564
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 3: who are my conservation cooperators, access seekers had access to

565
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 3: come in and then gee, the the later bo seasons,

566
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: the dough Derby antlerless hunt, and then the holiday hunt,

567
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: and we did squirrel hunting, we did we've we've done

568
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 3: some foraging, we've done uh man, we just had days

569
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: where people got to come here and shoot and you know,

570
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: just a lot of different things that you can you

571
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: can think of. So what I asked landowners to do

572
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: is to think about what it is that they do

573
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: on their property and then what are some of the

574
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: other possibilities, and we list some other possibilities so you

575
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 3: don't have to give up you know, one hundred percent access.

576
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: It's sort of like, you know, it's almost like you

577
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: have a menu of things that that won this this

578
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: is the menu of things I need help with and

579
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 3: then here on the other side is the menu of

580
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 3: things that I'm willing to provide access for. And then

581
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: we what we do when these things come in is

582
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: we try to match them up. And really what we

583
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: do is send the most likely conservation resumes to the

584
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: landowner and then they take kind of ticket from there.

585
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 3: There's an agreement involved, and there's you know, there's insurance

586
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: involved there. They can the landowners wonder about reliability, and

587
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 3: there's an insurance policy that they are the access seekers

588
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 3: can get and so we've kind of kind of run

589
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: through every you know, issue that we can so if

590
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 3: people are interested in it, and boy, this twenty twenty

591
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: four is the Year of the Landowner. We're going to

592
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: be doing a bunch of recruitment of landowners. I'm going

593
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: to a thing this Saturday where there's a bunch of

594
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 3: landowners who were presenting. Following Saturday, I'm going to another one.

595
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: I'm out at pheasant Fest then after that. So we're

596
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: really going to try to recruit more landowners because, as

597
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: I said, we have plenty of demand and not enough supply,

598
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: and especially in areas where you could imagine one of

599
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 3: the things we did last year also working with the

600
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: National Dear Association and with Pheasants forever. Is that we

601
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: did a learn to hunt in the early season, during

602
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 3: the bow season. Because it was DNR sanctioned, we did it.

603
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: We were able to do a gun hunt in September.

604
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: It was the weekend after you were here, I think.

605
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: And man, we had you know, we had fifteen properties.

606
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 3: It was almost like fifteen hundred acres as it all

607
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 3: adds up, and twenty two new hunters, twenty two mentors,

608
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: and some of those mentors were the landowners. So they took,

609
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: you know, folks out and these are guys, who are

610
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: you interested in big giant bucks? But they also understand that,

611
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 3: holy moly, I got a andlerless concern here, management concern.

612
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: So all of these things kind of come together. We

613
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 3: can introduce people to hunting, get them out there early

614
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: in the season before the best bow hunting is going

615
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 3: going on. And we had a real successful hunt. I

616
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 3: think we took twelve or fourteen deer. We had. We

617
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 3: did a butchering demonstration and he heck, even one of

618
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 3: the landowners because it was sanctioned and as a result,

619
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 3: if the landowners said it was okay, they could shoot

620
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 3: a buck. And so he's sitting there in the blind

621
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: with one of these hunters and his buck comes out,

622
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: and the access or the learn to hunter was like,

623
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 3: you know, wow, that's really cool to see it. He goes,

624
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: you want to shoot it? So can you imagine? I mean,

625
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 3: the landowner got so wrapped up and so interested in this,

626
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: and I don't know, had the bigger smile that hunter

627
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: or the land So that that whole thing of where

628
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 3: you're getting something out of it, I get so much

629
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: out of it. I mean, you and I had a

630
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 3: blast together. But it's not that much. It's no different

631
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 3: really when I have my my cooperator's access seekers come

632
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 3: and we do things together, and it's just if it

633
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. And that's one of

634
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 3: the things I keep telling the landowners. It's really nice

635
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: to do this, and it's really fun to do it.

636
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: And then you talk to the access seekers on the

637
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 3: other hand, you know with the same idea that this

638
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 3: needs to be beneficial to the land It needs to

639
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 3: be beneficial to the land owner, and it should be fun.

640
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: And let's talk about what it's like to be a

641
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 3: good guest. And you could do a you could do

642
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 3: a seminar and what it's like to be a good guest.

643
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 3: You really could. You're a great guy to have around.

644
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thanks for saying that. Yeah, you make a

645
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: good point that actually wouldn't be a bad podcast actually

646
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: either like an episode just talking about how to be

647
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: a good guest or how to be a good hunter

648
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 2: on somebody else's land, right, I mean, there's some certain etiquette,

649
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: there's a certain set of things that can help you

650
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: maintain access and permission by doing the right things, by

651
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: helping out, by creating relationships, all those different types of things.

652
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes we assume like, oh, it's just obvious, but not always.

653
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: So that's more than just a compliment, which I thank

654
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: you for, but also a good idea. So yeah, something

655
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: to think about, Doug with with this, Like you're talking

656
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 2: about this menu of different ideas, and you mentioned the

657
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: menu could apply both for the access seeker and the

658
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: access provider, right, So the access seeker they can have

659
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: a menu of things that they can add to their

660
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: conservation resume, all these different skill sets or experiences. But

661
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 2: then on the flip side, for the landowners, there's always

662
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 2: something more you could do, right, And and that's kind

663
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 2: of where I want to push you a little bit

664
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: or or points you, I guess because you are someone

665
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: in the deer hunting world. Now that you are the

666
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 2: NDA Deer Manager of the Year, you have you have

667
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 2: now the authority, Yeah, you have the you know, the

668
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: authority and the title to speak to, to speak to

669
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: a little bit of how unique your own personal menu

670
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: has been compared to some others in the deer hunting world.

671
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: And this is something that I think, you know, Steve's

672
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 2: giving you an opportunity to talk about. So people I

673
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: think are well aware of the fact that you manage

674
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: your property a little bit differently than the typical property

675
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 2: we're going to see on the Outdoor Channel or something

676
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: like that. Right, you have gone to great lengths over

677
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: the years to manage the Duran family farm in a

678
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: more holistic way with a more of an ecosystem focus

679
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:35,879
Speaker 2: versus just a make big deer focus. And that's kind

680
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: of where I want to spend a little more time here,

681
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 2: because we've talked around the edges of this over the years,

682
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: but we've never really dove dove deep into it. So

683
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: I'm curious, first, what was the impetus for that with you,

684
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 2: Like how did that philosophy get into get under your

685
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: skin and become the way you want to do this?

686
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: Because I know, like you had a journey when it

687
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: came to really focusing on big giant bucks and then

688
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: you've you've kind of traveled along a slightly different route

689
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 2: over the years. But also when it comes to just

690
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: like how you worked with the land, was that from

691
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: an early age or early in your management kind of

692
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: journey that hey, I want to do this a different

693
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 2: kind of way or at first where you just thinking, man,

694
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,439
Speaker 2: I want big deer and this is how we're gonna

695
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 2: do it. Can you just give me a little insight

696
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: into how this came to be where we are.

697
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 3: Sure? So you know, you know the long story about

698
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: the farm being in the family for so long. We're

699
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 3: in our one hundred and twenty first year now, and

700
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 3: it was it was never about This wasn't a property

701
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 3: that was ever The primary reason for it was to

702
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 3: have for hunting. My great grandparents bought this property for

703
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: the timber and they were they had a sawmill and

704
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 3: they managed the woods. I you know, I don't know,

705
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: I can't I can't say. Oh, and here's how they

706
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 3: managed it exactly I can tell you what the results were.

707
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 3: I don't know what their intentions were at the time

708
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: because it was one hundred and twenty years ago. I

709
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: never met those people, but I can tell you that

710
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: I cut my great grandfather's trees a few years ago,

711
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 3: right because it was there. Some of those trees were

712
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 3: it was their time to go. I did speak with

713
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: my grandfather a lot a bit about it. He died

714
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 3: when I was eighteen, and he also had sawmills. So

715
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 3: it was first and foremost a place that was producing

716
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: timber for saw mill production. And then this farm, you know,

717
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: quintessential Wisconsin dairy farm. You know, the red barn, the

718
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 3: white house, the white milk house. It looks like the

719
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 3: Wisconsin license plate was carved out of it. And of

720
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: the four hundred acres, you know, one hundred acres tillable,

721
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 3: sixty acres of pasture, two hundred and forty acres of woods.

722
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 3: So from that perspective, when I was as a kid,

723
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: we it was a farm, and we went out to

724
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: the farm to work. I grew up in town two

725
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: miles away, you know, I didn't didn't grow up in

726
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 3: this house, and so hunting was something I was squirreling,

727
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 3: rabbit hunting and that kind of stuff. I mean, this

728
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: is you know, the early nineteen seventies, and you know,

729
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 3: my buddies and I went squirrel hunting and rabbit hunting

730
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 3: and stuff. But when you came time to go deer hunting,

731
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: we actually went up north, which is a whole other

732
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 3: We could have a whole discussion of what was going

733
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: on in northern Wisconsin right now, but we went up

734
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: Worth a few years because that's what my dad did,

735
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 3: you know, after World War Two, because that's where the

736
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: deer were, and so it wasn't really a consideration. But

737
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 3: but then by the time in the I guess the

738
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: first year I deer hunting was nineteen seventy one. Boy

739
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 3: does that make me feel old. But by the mid

740
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 3: by the time I was getting through high school, we

741
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 3: were deer hunting around here because gee, there were deer

742
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 3: around But it was never about oh, when we're going

743
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: deer hunting, you know, like or we're going deer hunting

744
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 3: for big giant bucks. She just went out. You had

745
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 3: an antler, he had one buck tag and in those days,

746
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: four people had to apply to get to maybe get

747
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 3: a dough tag. That's how few deer there were, but

748
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: they the Department Natural Resources, are trying to do so.

749
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 3: It was it was about farming, you know, if I

750
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: say it was a yardstick, and still to this day

751
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: it may seem a little different now, but you know,

752
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: if the farm is a yardstick. Hunting was in those

753
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 3: days maybe three or four inches. Now now it's maybe

754
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 3: a foot, you know, but it's still about these other

755
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 3: specifically about deer hunting. Though. When my younger brother Matthew,

756
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: my late brother Matthew coming up on or just past them,

757
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 3: sorry is the twenty eighth anniversary of his death, he

758
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: was he was, he was into it. The rest of

759
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 3: us kind of left the area, and matt was the one,

760
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 3: he was the youngest of all of us, and he said, yeah,

761
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 3: I want to stay around here. He became an electrician

762
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: and he lived here in the farmhouse, and he was

763
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 3: a bow hunter him and I know you'd have got

764
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 3: along great with him. Ironically enough, he's exactly he would

765
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 3: have been exactly Steve's agent and U. But he also

766
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 3: gun hunted and he fished and they small game hunted

767
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 3: all that. And he's really the first one who said

768
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 3: to me, you know what we gotta let some of

769
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 3: these little bucks go and see what happens. And you know,

770
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: that was thirty five years ago, and so that kind

771
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 3: of stuff was happening. I remember, Oh there was some

772
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 3: noise about, but I mean a big giant buck in

773
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 3: those days was you know, a two year old. And

774
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: so yeah, thats changed quite a bit, and and we

775
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: certainly had the potential for all that. And every once

776
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: in a while, some big ol' hog haud get killed

777
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: and it would just be like, where did that thing come?

778
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 3: As you get that up north and oh, no, I

779
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 3: got it, you know, domind Hawkins crit or something. People

780
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: just were surprised by that. And so all of that,

781
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, is evolved. That evolved, and Matt sort of

782
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 3: got me thinking about it, and we'd agreed that we

783
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 3: were going to start doing that, and then unfortunately he

784
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 3: died in a car accident right down here in the highway,

785
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 3: and uh, I sort of took that idea. And you

786
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 3: always get a little emotional when I start thinking about

787
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 3: him and talking about him, especially especially this time of

788
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 3: the year. But took that idea. He said one time

789
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 3: when I killed this deer, that that was the best

790
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: buck I killed my life. Up to that time. He goes, oh, yeah,

791
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 3: but he'd have been a nice buck next year, and

792
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 3: and I'm like, what do you mean that? That was

793
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 3: his point, right, It's like, you know, like the deer

794
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: you see behind me. Then we didn't have that kind

795
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 3: of thing are out here then? And uh so that's

796
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: kind of what Guy's going in sort of in his memory,

797
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: maybe even in his honor, you know. That we started

798
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 3: doing a little more of that, and I got a

799
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 3: little wrapped up in the idea of let him go

800
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: so he can grow and U and then our neighbor

801
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 3: killed on agg tags killed like twenty four antler, this

802
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: deer one winner. And the next year it was like bucks.

803
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 3: You know, I like to think I pay attention. And

804
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 3: I looked at that and went, well, that's pretty cool.

805
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 3: We needed to kill more antler this year. So that

806
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 3: was twenty five years ago. We started killing more antler

807
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: this year. From a habitat perspective, we were just managing

808
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 3: our forests for our woods in a managed forest kind

809
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: of way. You know, we were doing it was a

810
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: productive forest kind of way. And boy, I learned pretty

811
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 3: quickly that if if you're doing good forest management, you're

812
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: probably doing good habitat management as well. You know that

813
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 3: you're you're you're creating edge and you're getting younger successional

814
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: for uts, and gee, why isn't why aren't those We

815
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: don't see as many deer hanging out in those big

816
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 3: trees most of the year except for that time when

817
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 3: the you know, like in the white oaks start dropping

818
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: their acorns and then they're in there like crazy, you know,

819
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 3: and all of that kind of stuff starts happening. So

820
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 3: you know, you think about that, and I mean, ultimately

821
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 3: we were we were managing this property sort of in

822
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 3: the traditional way of my great grandparents and grandparents, and

823
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: and then what of the things that my dad taught me.

824
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: And then we started getting foresters involved because I you know,

825
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 3: I mean I have a bit of a conservation background

826
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: and horticulture background, but it's like I learned a long

827
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 3: time ago that you don't have to be the smartest

828
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: guy in the room. You need to find the smartest

829
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 3: guy in the room, right, or the smartest guy about

830
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: or a smart person about that subject that work with

831
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 3: a whole lot of different foresters out here now and

832
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 3: biologists and you know, I you know, looking for that.

833
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 3: So we did the let him go so he can

834
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: grow kind of thing for a while and killed more

835
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 3: more does and then you know, twenty two years ago

836
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 3: now CWD showed up sixty miles to the south of

837
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: US and we were immediately in the CWD management z owner

838
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: the herd reduction zone is what they actually called. And

839
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: it kind of made sense to me from an animal

840
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: husbandry standpoint, right that you that that if you have

841
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: a bunch of animals crowded together, they're more apt to

842
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 3: get if there's a disease and more apt to spread

843
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: it around. So that was it sort of made sense

844
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: to me. And it also gee, when we were killing

845
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 3: more deer, especially our antler. This year, we're getting bigger bucks.

846
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 3: So all these things were going together. We're doing this

847
00:46:55,719 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 3: forestry work, and I started putting food plots in, thinking

848
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: that was cool and being a farm kid. You know,

849
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 3: I got a tractor, I got a disc, I got

850
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: a seat planner, I've got all this stuff, and it

851
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 3: was interesting to do that. But then I ended up

852
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 3: sort of seeing the I don't know the folly in it,

853
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 3: but sort of the it wasn't multi dimensional enough, right,

854
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 3: I mean, you and I have have this joke of

855
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: course when I say food plots in farm country like

856
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 3: taking sand to the beach, and it is a little

857
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: bit like that. I mean, I go out for a

858
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 3: drive this even after we're done, and I'll see a

859
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 3: hundred year on a drive and they're gonna be just

860
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 3: out on fields. So why would I go and put

861
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 3: more of that in? What is it that they what

862
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 3: is it that they need? And what can I do

863
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 3: for the whole the entire biotic community. And you know,

864
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: I was read Leopold when I was in high school

865
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 3: and certainly was influenced by him then and as I've

866
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 3: gotten older, So one thing I'll warny you about is

867
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 3: as you get older, he become more philosophical. And when

868
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: we were doing the let him go so he can

869
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 3: grow in management here the nice buck next year management,

870
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 3: we talked, you know, we talked about I didn't it

871
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: was pretty loose. I mean, you had to wear sombrero

872
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 3: if shot too small of a buck. You know, it

873
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 3: wasn't like, oh, this was like we were finding people

874
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,399
Speaker 3: or yelling at people or anything like that. And when

875
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 3: it was younger hunters and when it was newer hunters

876
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 3: and that kind of stuff, it's like, go ahead and

877
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 3: shoot a deer that you're going to be happy with.

878
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 3: Let's get some deer under your belt. Then my nephews

879
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 3: and my daughter, you know, all of that was happening,

880
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 3: and then I had a kind of an incident with

881
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 3: a family friend who you know, made a really egregious area.

882
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 3: He shot a real tiny buck fifty yards from him,

883
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: and you know, I kind of barked at him about it,

884
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 3: and he felt bad about it, and I felt bad

885
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 3: about it. I was like, you know, I don't want

886
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 3: to do that anymore. I don't want to manage people

887
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 3: or have people wondering if that's going to be big enough.

888
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 3: Britney Brothers, who was in an episode that we filmed here,

889
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: apologized for shooting and she had full permission. She never

890
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 3: shot a gear before and she goes shot a little

891
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 3: one and I'm like, okay, I never want to hear

892
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 3: that again. So I'm not saying that you have to

893
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 3: shoot the first buck that comes by, but you can

894
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 3: shoot the first buck that comes by if you want to,

895
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 3: Like you did you shot the first buck that came by?

896
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 2: I guess, well, I suppose that's true. The first buck

897
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 2: I had, the first buck I had been shooting range

898
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 2: was was a shooter. But I want to I want

899
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 2: to clarify something, which is you had this trajectory, you

900
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: had like a deer management trajectory and a habitat management path.

901
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: Like there's the two parallel things, right, and your your

902
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 2: deer management decisions have changed right as you went from

903
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: you guys are shooting anything to then let them go,

904
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 2: let them grow. And now more recently that's changed because

905
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: of CWD and you know, getting more folks involved. But

906
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 2: the habitat side of things and let them go, let

907
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 2: them grow. What am I trying to say here? Managing

908
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: for what's right for the landscape, or what's right for

909
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 2: the larger ecosystem, or what's right for the forest, what's

910
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: right by what Leopold might say, like that does not

911
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: have to be mutually exclusive from somebody wanting to practice

912
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 2: let them go, let them grow. I want better deer

913
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 2: hunting too, right. I think when I look at what

914
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 2: you have there, I think what I'm getting at here

915
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,280
Speaker 2: is when I look at your situation, you are someone

916
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 2: who said that I want to manage my landscape for

917
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 2: the health of the ecosystem, not just big deer, but

918
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 2: the product of you managing your landscape for the health

919
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: of the ecosystem is that you do have great deer

920
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 2: hunting and you do have big giant bucks. So I

921
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: guess what I'm trying to say those things doesn't have

922
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 2: to be an either or decision for someone listening. It

923
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 2: can be a yes and type situation. Right, I think

924
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 2: you are living improve for that.

925
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 3: You're exactly right, and living proof is you know. I

926
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 3: guess that's one of the things that the benefit of

927
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: time and age really is. I talked to folks all

928
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 3: the time who ask me about sort of shortening the

929
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 3: learning curve on, you know, on improving their property. My

930
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 3: question is is who do you want to improve it for?

931
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 3: And they're like, well, for deer, And I'm like, well,

932
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 3: you know, the most part deerre going to live real

933
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 3: well around here, no matter what I mean this and

934
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 3: this is you know, this bigger southwest Wisconsin area. But

935
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 3: you're exactly right, those things are not mutually exclusive. We

936
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 3: can do we can do what's best for the biotic

937
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 3: community as a whole. You know, Leopold said that whole

938
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 3: thing about a thing is right when I actually wrote

939
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: it down. A thing is right when it tends to

940
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 3: preserve the integrity, stability, and beauty, which I thought was

941
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: an interesting word for him to have in there, the

942
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,839
Speaker 3: beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it

943
00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: tends otherwise. So what's the biotic community, right? It's not deer,

944
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 3: it's not turkeys alone. It's all of these other things.

945
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 3: But like I said about forest management, like managing our woods, well,

946
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 3: gee uh, one of the smartestportishers that I've worked with,

947
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 3: who's not even a deer hunter, asked me after we

948
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 3: did some work, well, you know, how's this affecting your

949
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 3: deer hunting? And I said, it seems to be better,

950
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: and he goes, yeah, isn't that interesting? Good forest management

951
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: is good deer habitat management. And then again, just making

952
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 3: a vague reference to what's going on in northern Wisconsin,

953
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 3: part of what the habitat part of one of the

954
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: issues they have up there's a habitat issue. It's just

955
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: it's a degraded habitat and you know, maybe some overmature timber,

956
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 3: but when you look at a piece of property like ours,

957
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 3: and you know, and I didn't get we've spent a

958
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 3: little time out here, but you know, we've got some

959
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 3: brand new woods starting over where we did the shelter

960
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 3: would harvest, and you know, one hundred years from now,

961
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 3: by god, there's going to be a big oak trees

962
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 3: up there again. And the next whatever how many generations

963
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: that is frum now they're going to be cutting great

964
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: Grandpa's trees too, and only this time it'll be dugably

965
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 3: great Branda, right. And then we have areas that we

966
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 3: you know, we're just letting it go, sort of a

967
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 3: legacy area. There's big, old, giant oaks in there, and

968
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: we're in this wonderful position because of that two hundred

969
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 3: and forty acres, eleven different stands of timber where we

970
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 3: can do that. And I don't take that lightly, but

971
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 3: every decision I make about the management of this property

972
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 3: is done thoughtfully and with the advice and help of experts,

973
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 3: and then it all gets held up to the mirror

974
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 3: of it's not ours, it's just our turn that we're doing.

975
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 3: We're planning and implementing today something that's honoring the past

976
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 3: and doing the best we can for the future, for

977
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 3: the present and the future. And I think philosophically that's working.

978
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 3: I know, the philosophically is working really well for us,

979
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 3: and I think that that was what Leopold was getting at.

980
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 3: I mean, just stealing all this stuff from Leopold, you know,

981
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,880
Speaker 3: the land ethic, that idea, that and I've been there

982
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 3: with the land ethic the reason he evolved into that.

983
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: And he died when he was younger than me. He

984
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 3: was sixty two. He had evolved and he talks about

985
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: that in the Sand County Almanac about this isn't this

986
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 3: is the land ethic is something that he came to

987
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 3: over time. And I think that the lesson of Leopold

988
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 3: is maybe we can get that land ethics. We can

989
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 3: rather than it being the the result of a lifetime,

990
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 3: that those lessons can be learned that and even the

991
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 3: lessons need to be learned over time, I guess, but philosophically,

992
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 3: you can develop a philosophy pretty early on. And it's

993
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 3: been really gratifying that it's in our just our turn

994
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 3: has been has resonated with people because it's pretty straightforward, right,

995
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: I mean, Okay, it makes sense to me, and so

996
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 3: is this a good thing to do for now in

997
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 3: the future. Man, I've done plenty of things in my life,

998
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 3: not just on this farm, but it all seemed like

999
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 3: a good idea at the time, and maybe they didn't

1000
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 3: work out that well. And we certainly had some of

1001
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 3: that in conservation as well. It's really interesting when you

1002
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 3: start to read Leopold's notes on Vacation. I was reading

1003
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 3: a collection of essays that hadn't really been published, most

1004
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 3: of it hadn't been published before that, and you know,

1005
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 3: he was really into upland game birds, and which was

1006
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 3: kind of interesting because it was like peasants. You know,

1007
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 3: there's in the natives, of course, but pheasants are an

1008
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 3: exotic but he liked hunting pheasants. And the cool thing

1009
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 3: about that was is that the habitat that he was

1010
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,279
Speaker 3: concerned about and was creating was for more than that

1011
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 3: one particular species. And that's what I find to be

1012
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 3: really interesting that if you can work on a property

1013
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 3: and do conservation on a property that is thoughtful and

1014
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 3: looking forward, doing the best we can now for the future,

1015
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: learning from the past, the diversity that can happen has

1016
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 3: a lot more impact than managing for one particular species.

1017
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 2: And it's not even just because it's the right thing

1018
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 2: to do, but it's also it practically leads to better

1019
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 2: results too. So by that I mean like everything in

1020
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 2: the ecosystem is connected, right.

1021
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: So.

1022
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: What you do impacts the bugs, which impacts the birds,

1023
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 2: which impacts the plants, which impacts the deer. And what

1024
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 2: you do with the deer impacts the vegetation, which impacts

1025
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: the small mammals, which every little you know. I think

1026
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 2: it's mirror who said that you pull one thread in

1027
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 2: the world and everything else is connected. And so I

1028
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 2: think that it's having that kind of multi species or

1029
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 2: bigger picture set of goals, like managing for the community,

1030
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: not the individual. It leads to better results for your

1031
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 2: deer hunting or whatever it is, your focus on your pheasants, whatever.

1032
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 2: And I think there's this this opportunity though, because people

1033
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 2: listening to this podcast want quality deer hunting, right, That's

1034
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: what I've always wanted, and so I've always looked at

1035
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 2: what can you do to get better deer hunting? And

1036
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 2: so often what we realize, though you brought this up earlier,

1037
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 2: is that our deer situation most cases is like the

1038
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 2: least of our problems in the area. Right. Deer do

1039
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 2: pretty darn well and a lot of habitat types around today.

1040
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: They are incredible survivors. They're overpopulated in many places, But

1041
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 2: all around them are all these other animals, all these

1042
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 2: different insects, birds, game birds, songbirds, you name it, amphibians,

1043
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 2: all sorts of other critters that are rapidly disappearing population

1044
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 2: declines fifty sixty seventy eighty percent, even common critters around me,

1045
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: I mean around you, like we are, everything around deer

1046
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: are kind of in crisis mode, unbeknownst to a lot

1047
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 2: of us. And then deer just kind of standing there

1048
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:32,439
Speaker 2: as the bathtub are draining around them. And so I'm

1049
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 2: increasingly realizing that if we, as folks who care so

1050
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: much about deer, if we don't plug the hole in

1051
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,680
Speaker 2: that bathtub, because the whole thing is falling down around deer,

1052
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: eventually it will impact deer and the thing that we

1053
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 2: first and foremost care about or brought us to this table.

1054
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: And so it would behoove us to start doing some

1055
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 2: things to help the rest of that system, to keep

1056
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: the thing that we originally loved around too. And I

1057
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 2: think we've got a huge opportunity to do that. And

1058
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 2: it's not it's not just altruistically, it's also self serving,

1059
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 2: Like if you want to enjoy the thing you love,

1060
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 2: we probably have to look beyond just how do we

1061
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,439
Speaker 2: grow bigger deer? How do I get the best food

1062
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: plot or the best tree stand location? Right?

1063
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: But yeah, I couldn't agree with anymore. That's been the

1064
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 3: interesting thing to me about all of this. You know,

1065
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 3: it's like the accolade, like the deer manager thing, trying

1066
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 3: to do the right thing for the entire community biotic

1067
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 3: community ends up being the right thing and best thing

1068
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: for the thing that we are most in the case

1069
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 3: of people who are most interested in deer hunting. So

1070
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 3: then what happens Then what happens when that thing that

1071
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 3: you are most desirous of deer becomes a detriment to

1072
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 3: the rest of the biotic communit And that's what we

1073
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 3: have in southwest Wisconsin. And it's becoming a detriment to itself.

1074
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 3: And this is where I get into arguments with people,

1075
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 3: or people take offense at some of the things that

1076
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 3: I you know, but other people, you know, the offense.

1077
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 3: Why do you want to kill all the deer? I

1078
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 3: don't want to kill all the dear You know. What

1079
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 3: I want is I want healthy deer. I want a

1080
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 3: smaller population. I want a healthy population, and I want

1081
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: a healthy ecosystem. Those things can all happen at the

1082
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 3: same time, but here's what we need to do to

1083
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 3: do it. Unfortunately, there's a lot of discussion these days

1084
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 3: about box biology, you know, like out west or up

1085
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 3: out west. I guess with the hunting lions all that stuff,

1086
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 3: and then in northern Wisconsin people just want to kill wolves.

1087
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 3: Big wolves are cool. I think they belong in the landscape.

1088
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 3: I think we need to manage them, and I think

1089
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 3: it's really unfortunate that we're not getting to manage them.

1090
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 3: But one of the things that I've noticed is that

1091
01:00:54,560 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 3: about about a lot of folks, but particularly about deer hunters,

1092
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 3: is that they want to project more than they want

1093
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 3: to go. What what is it that I can do better?

1094
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 3: Looking in the mirror is kind of a tough thing.

1095
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 3: I had this conversation with a neighbor about you know,

1096
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 3: it's just not like it used to be. You know,

1097
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:15,919
Speaker 3: I've been hunting on that same stump for twenty years,

1098
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 3: and I'm like, you got to move stumps, man, But

1099
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 3: it's you know that they're not if they're not evolving,

1100
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 3: and he thinks it's well, it's because this or that

1101
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 3: is happening, and It's like, there's all of these things

1102
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 3: that are happening happening around you, but the one thing

1103
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 3: that you can really impact is what your behavior is.

1104
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 3: It didn't that doesn't work anymore, Let's do that at

1105
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 3: U school like that. No, it goes like this. You

1106
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 3: know that that is really one of the things. But

1107
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 3: people calling for science based management, you know of wolves

1108
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 3: of bears, of cougars, whatever, what about science based management

1109
01:01:54,560 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 3: of deer. If we were following science based management and

1110
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 3: white tail deer in southwest Wisconsin, we would have still

1111
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 3: have earn a buck. We'd have I would think that

1112
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 3: we would have an earlier done season. We don't start

1113
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 3: deer hunting until the week before the Saturday before Thanksgiving.

1114
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 3: And the reasons for that are they're political. Right now,

1115
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 3: We've got politicians want them being involved with the deer

1116
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 3: hunting up north and we're going to They want to

1117
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 3: outlaw killing does for the next four years. The biologists

1118
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 3: are all like, that's that's not that's not the problem.

1119
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 3: If the problem is I'm not seeing the problem, you know,

1120
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: And then you have these politicians have these public hearings

1121
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 3: and people are hollering about the deer hunting is no

1122
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 3: good anymore. It's like, well, what are all the reasons

1123
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 3: for that? And what they look at is wolves or

1124
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 3: we're killing too many doughs or you know, and rather

1125
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 3: than one specific thing, there are all these it's multi

1126
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 3: layer and that's where the scientists, where the biologists come in.

1127
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 3: Let's talking to a dear friend of mine who's a

1128
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 3: dealer wildlife biologist yesterday, and one of the interesting things

1129
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:20,920
Speaker 3: that he has said to me in the past. He

1130
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: didn't say it yesterday, but one of the things that

1131
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 3: he said was, you know, it's really hard to being

1132
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 3: a deer biologist because I thought that our job was

1133
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 3: to manage and the resource for the benefit of the

1134
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:39,919
Speaker 3: people of Wisconsin. It seems like, because of the way

1135
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 3: the system has worked and the politics and whatnot that

1136
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 3: are involved, is that what we're really managing, or being

1137
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 3: allowed to manage because of the laws that have been changed,

1138
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 3: is just the deer hunting experience. And people don't seem

1139
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 3: to think we're doing a very good job of that.

1140
01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't know, man, I think you

1141
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 3: do a hell of a job of it. Part that

1142
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 3: is because we're looking in the mirror and here and

1143
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 3: doing it you know, we've had an incredibly successful year

1144
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 3: this past year, and we've had, you know, in terms

1145
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 3: of just numbers of deer killed killed, forty seven deer

1146
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:18,800
Speaker 3: on this six hundred acres this past season. So six

1147
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 3: hundred acres is less than a square mile, and this

1148
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 3: certainly is an all habitat. But and people will say

1149
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 3: to me, I can't believe that. You think there's sixty

1150
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 3: five deer per square mile of habitat in this county.

1151
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 3: And I was like, I think there's more, because that's

1152
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 3: I mean, that's kind of the number that gets banteed above, right,

1153
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 3: So I actually think there's more because over the past

1154
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 3: five years now, we've averaged almost forty deer a season

1155
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 3: that we've killed, so two thirds of the deer. And

1156
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 3: I've got trail cameras out right now and we'll fly

1157
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 3: a drona on that and those numbers are still way up.

1158
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 3: Part of it is, of course, that neighbors are not.

1159
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 3: There's you know, a bunch of different variables in it,

1160
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 3: and a big part of it is is quite honestly,

1161
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 3: the six hundred acres is freaking deer habitat.

1162
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 2: Great habitat.

1163
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 3: They might be going out and in the winter time

1164
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 3: and spending time in those you know, those fields and stuff.

1165
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 3: But they are living here, and so I'm not you know,

1166
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 3: I'm not taking sand to the beach. I'm not putting

1167
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 3: food plots in. I'm doing habitat improvements. Sure, I'm overseating

1168
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 3: trails with with with clover and doing those sort of things,

1169
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 3: but we're we're we're doing it on a high level.

1170
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 3: And then we're also really taking that deer herd down.

1171
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 3: And look what we did this year. You got a

1172
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 3: four year old, cal got a five year old, We

1173
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 3: got three, you know, we had four or three year olds.

1174
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 3: We killed some younger bucks. Also. I still got really

1175
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 3: nice deer on camera. I mean, like I didn't send

1176
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 3: them to you because you might have been hey, you know,

1177
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 3: little late season. I actually did welcome a couple of

1178
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 3: my operators that come in late season hunt. They never

1179
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 3: got a shot tomorrow, I think it's the last day,

1180
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 3: but they saw some of those deer. My neighbor shot

1181
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 3: a five year old buck that, unfortunately that I had

1182
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 3: on camera a bunch of times. Unfortunately, he was CWD

1183
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 3: positive and he was starting to show the signs. My

1184
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,439
Speaker 3: other neighbor got a five or six year old buck.

1185
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 3: He doesn't test, so we don't know, but that deer

1186
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 3: was definitely in decline his antlers the year before. I

1187
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 3: think even sent you a picture, big giant buck, big

1188
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 3: drop time on him, cal and I saw him the

1189
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 3: night before opening day, and then the neighbor shot him

1190
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 3: the next morning, and see and the other way there

1191
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 3: was another one. So really, you start to take these

1192
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 3: overlapping areas here and we're killing a half a dozen

1193
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 3: big mature deer and there's still some left. And the

1194
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 3: guys over to Durant Farmer, we're just laying them down.

1195
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,520
Speaker 3: And I've got some other neighbors now they're doing the

1196
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 3: same thing. You know. I mean when I say neighbors,

1197
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 3: they're not necessarily touching this. But you know, a half

1198
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 3: a mile away property another half a mile away, we're

1199
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 3: not going to run out of white tail deer from

1200
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 3: killing them with with guns and boats or cars. But

1201
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 3: the impact that that the disease is having is is concerning.

1202
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 3: So again it's sort of balance and all that stuff.

1203
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 2: You keep on bringing up the food plots thing, bringing

1204
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 2: sand of the beach, right, so I gotta I gotta

1205
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 2: do my pushback on that to you and see.

1206
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 3: It to the bait.

1207
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a bite on a bite. So so you

1208
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 2: and me had this debate when I was down there visiting,

1209
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,040
Speaker 2: and I understand your take. Your take is that there's

1210
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 2: food all over the place, so why are you putting

1211
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 2: more food out there? Right? And my rebuttal to that

1212
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: was twofold. It was one part which was, well, yes,

1213
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 2: but with a food plot, you can be more strategic

1214
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: with it in ways can help you actually shooting deer,

1215
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 2: you know, hunting, putting the plots where you want them, better,

1216
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: positioning or designing the food plot to give you a

1217
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 2: better shot opportunity. With a bow, you can plant something

1218
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 2: that's unique compared to what's on all the farm fields

1219
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 2: around you. So you can be the ice cream shop

1220
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 2: in the in the neighborhood and draw deer in because

1221
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 2: of that, et cetera, et cetera. So there's all these

1222
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 2: hunting things and you kind of rolled your eyes and said, yeah, whatever,

1223
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 2: you weren't impressed with that. I stand by it for

1224
01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 2: folks who for folks, for folks who especially bow hunting,

1225
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 2: you know, want to increase their opportunities. There's there's a

1226
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 2: reason there. But I think my best argument, which I'm

1227
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 2: curious if you have done some more thinking, and I

1228
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 2: think I'm wrong on this, But my best rebuttal to

1229
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:51,879
Speaker 2: you on this is that I think that food plots

1230
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 2: are a great entry way. They're a great entry drug,

1231
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 2: you could say, into the conservation wildlife habitat world, in

1232
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 2: that they are usually the first thing that a deer

1233
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 2: hunter tries when they're thinking about trying to improve habitat

1234
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 2: because it's the sexiest thing, because it seems to be

1235
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 2: the thing that is most you could be the most impactful.

1236
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 2: So it's a thing that everybody talks about and everyone

1237
01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 2: sees like, oh, wow, so and so has food plots

1238
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 2: and they kill deer, and so I'm going to try it.

1239
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 2: And so my argument is that that is not a

1240
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 2: bad thing. That is a good thing, and that people

1241
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: see a food plot on TV and they say, oh,

1242
01:09:33,400 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 2: I want to try that because it might make my

1243
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 2: deer hunting better. I say all that because if that

1244
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: person goes and buys a buck on the bag food plot, seed,

1245
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 2: whatever it is, and they plant a little food plot,

1246
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 2: I recognize that is not the end all be all

1247
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 2: of improving wildlife habitat or helping your deer population, but

1248
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 2: I think it's a really good way for people to

1249
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 2: dip their toes in the water. And then all of

1250
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: a sudden realize like, oh wow, I this food plot thing,

1251
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 2: and I learned that I have to pay attention to

1252
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 2: soil quality. Hmm, what new rabbit hole might that they

1253
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 2: take me down? Or Hm, I'm doing this food plot thing,

1254
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, I'm realizing like, I'm spraying

1255
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 2: this roundup stuff. How does this kill everything? What does

1256
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: this do? And maybe you read an article about it

1257
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 2: and then you realize like, oh, yikes, there's this thing

1258
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 2: called spray drift and it's killing all the milkweed around

1259
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 2: here and that's why I don't see butterflies anymore. Or

1260
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 2: maybe you do this food plot thing and you realize like,

1261
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 2: oh wow, when I cleared out this little patch of

1262
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 2: forest to get the food plot in, not only are

1263
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 2: the deer feeding on the little clover patch I planted,

1264
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,519
Speaker 2: but actually there's a ten yard strip of just weeds

1265
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 2: and stuff that are grown around it, and there's all

1266
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 2: these flowers in and out, and now there's all these

1267
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:43,240
Speaker 2: bugs in there, and the deer feed on that too,

1268
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 2: So maybe there's something to this, like early secessional habitat,

1269
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,160
Speaker 2: and maybe I should read more about this. And if

1270
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,000
Speaker 2: that person who at first was just interested in planning

1271
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: a food plot to kill more deer, if you give

1272
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 2: that person the opportunity to do that, not all, but

1273
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 2: many people I think end up in their own little way,

1274
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 2: having conversations with themselves or their hunting buddies or their family,

1275
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 2: kind of like what we're having here today, in which

1276
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 2: they realize there's more to it. And if you have

1277
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 2: that opportunity to start realizing that there's more to it,

1278
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 2: then you have an opportunity for more people to start

1279
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: thinking about managing their timber, for more people to start

1280
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 2: thinking about early secessional habitat. There's more opportunity for people

1281
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 2: to maybe think about, hey man, not only can I

1282
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:30,920
Speaker 2: improve this place for deer, but I could also make

1283
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: it better for the birds and the bugs and the

1284
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 2: water quality. And none of that happens on my mind

1285
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 2: unless that person. I'm not saying this is the only interway,

1286
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 2: but I think it is one common enterway into that world.

1287
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 2: So that is my argument to you, mister Doug Darren,

1288
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: for why food plots aren't so bad.

1289
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 3: What do you say, Well, what I'm not saying that

1290
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 3: they're bad. What I'm saying is my response to that

1291
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 3: is that you're saying that it's introduction to conservation, and

1292
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 3: it sounds to me like it's an introduction to farming

1293
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 3: because that's what they're doing, right, I mean, or gardening.

1294
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:13,600
Speaker 3: I mean, it's what you're doing. You're putting in a

1295
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 3: little garden for the year. So that's something that's you know,

1296
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 3: it's very it's very specific. So rather than an introduction

1297
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 3: of conservation, it's it's an introduction to farming. If you're

1298
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 3: gonna introduce somebody to conservation, let's introduce the conservation. And

1299
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:31,679
Speaker 3: it's it's not if you're gonna put that energy in,

1300
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 3: Let's put that energy into simple habitat improvements, feather edging.

1301
01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying you can't do food or that

1302
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 3: it's a bad idea. I'm just saying that I think

1303
01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:51,200
Speaker 3: that it's it's over focused on And the other part

1304
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 3: of that is what kind of a food plot and

1305
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 3: if you are going out and you're tilling it up

1306
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 3: every year in your spraining and you're doing the I

1307
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 3: mean all of that, right, I mean, because you know

1308
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 3: when you do you you watch a food plot video

1309
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,800
Speaker 3: or go to a food plot seminar. They're talking about

1310
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 3: they're talking about spraying, they're talking about pH or the soil,

1311
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:17,719
Speaker 3: they're talking about fertilizing, they're talking about farming. And I'm farming,

1312
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 3: you know, or at least it was that's what that is.

1313
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:26,120
Speaker 3: That's farming. But at the same time, I work with

1314
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:28,120
Speaker 3: a do some work with a seed company feeing of

1315
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 3: our sponsors, Hoxy Native Seeds, And before I started working

1316
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 3: with those guys, I went on their website and you know,

1317
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 3: let's kind of see stuff that they have because Noxy

1318
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 3: Native seeds. And then I saw food plots and I went, Okay,

1319
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,120
Speaker 3: I guess I'm gonna have to take a look at

1320
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,439
Speaker 3: what they're recommending for food plots. And maybe they're in

1321
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 3: the grassica business or corn and beans business too. And

1322
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 3: I went on there and their food plots were one

1323
01:13:56,439 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 3: native perennial and they were formulated for different species. I

1324
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,480
Speaker 3: was like, that's a food plot I can get behind.

1325
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 3: I have giant food plots out here, it's called CRP.

1326
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 3: I have prairie strips in there, and those prairie strips

1327
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 3: are not providing corner beans. They can get and they're

1328
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 3: not GMO corner beans either, which is what most food

1329
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 3: plot corner beans are. Right, it's round up ready and

1330
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:34,759
Speaker 3: there's raying round up. I've had many discussions with guys

1331
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 3: about food plots who you know, They're like, my food

1332
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 3: plot's kind of dirty. I'm like, so what yah, you know,

1333
01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 3: it's a lot. It's like I was thinking about going

1334
01:14:42,360 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 3: redwock ready, so I thought maybe I go and sprayed again.

1335
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 3: And I'm like, that's what I mean. It's an introduction

1336
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 3: into farming. And man Like, sometimes I feel like I'm

1337
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,760
Speaker 3: that guy at the AA meeting, Like I used to

1338
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:55,240
Speaker 3: be way in the big giant bucks and I used

1339
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 3: to be way into food plots. But I guess I'm

1340
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 3: still into both of those things. But I just evolved,

1341
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 3: you know, over time, and I and and I just

1342
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 3: I and maybe everybody's got to involve and maybe I'm

1343
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 3: just like trying to, you know, push people along to

1344
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 3: learn things faster than I did. That let's worry about

1345
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 3: the habitat. Let's worry about if you want to do

1346
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,679
Speaker 3: something rather than keeping that in CRP or or in field,

1347
01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 3: put it in uh CRP and have a nice mixture

1348
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:31,600
Speaker 3: in there. That's going to be providing food and habitat

1349
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 3: to more than just white tailed deer and or wild turkeys. Yeah,

1350
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 3: as soon as we're getting Now, we had a bunch

1351
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:40,320
Speaker 3: of snow here, but now it's clearing off, and I'll

1352
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 3: look on the side hill over here tonight where a

1353
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 3: crp is, and there's a bunch of forbes in there.

1354
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 3: There deer out there scratching and stuff that's scratching it,

1355
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 3: just like they will in a in a cornfield or

1356
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 3: a beanfield for the leftover grain. So it's this we're

1357
01:15:54,880 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 3: we're we're accomplishing the same things without yearly inputs, you know,

1358
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 3: and all of that. And you've actually talked about the

1359
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,160
Speaker 3: hell when are we doing the back fourty? You talked

1360
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,120
Speaker 3: about that. So you don't disagree with me about this stuff.

1361
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 3: I just I would I would rather see people or

1362
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 3: I was maybe even rather is the wrong word. Maybe

1363
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 3: I would just challenge him because I don't want to

1364
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,760
Speaker 3: run somebody down from putting in, you know, food plot

1365
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 3: because I don't disagree with what you're saying. More I

1366
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 3: do disagree with who might chill you. But I'm but

1367
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 3: it's like my buddy Chip, you know, Chip, you met

1368
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:34,760
Speaker 3: Chip because what do you think I want to do

1369
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 3: down here, you know, on this and he's had the

1370
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 3: the Deer Management Assistant program. While I'll just come in

1371
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 3: and talk with him and he's like, oh, I was

1372
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 3: thinking about doing the food plot. Guy's kind of like

1373
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 3: it's all one big food plot. You got here already,

1374
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 3: and say, hey, feel why don't you let's think about

1375
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:55,519
Speaker 3: seeding into it? Well, but structure, and they started talking

1376
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 3: about this guy's Chip started talking about switchgrass and all

1377
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 3: that stuff, you know, borders and protection and all of that,

1378
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 3: and like seems like plant some trees or some native

1379
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 3: shrubs in that sort of thing would be a good

1380
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 3: thing too. I think for almost every annual food plot

1381
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,639
Speaker 3: kind of thing, you're going to find something that's perennial

1382
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:16,760
Speaker 3: that's going to do as good as that's native, that's

1383
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 3: going to do as good a job, or semi native

1384
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 3: even you know, like an apple trees and stuff, and

1385
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 3: we're gonna going to provide what it is that you're

1386
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,719
Speaker 3: looking for, and you're not going to have those constant

1387
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 3: you know.

1388
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the trick. I think the trick to

1389
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:34,720
Speaker 2: a lot of this is really is realizing that for

1390
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 2: people to for most folks, most of us, you and

1391
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 2: I in many cases, right for us to for us

1392
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 2: to put time, energy, money, whatever it is, into a thing,

1393
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:50,280
Speaker 2: into a project, into a property, it still has to

1394
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 2: satisfy like our our initial needs or wants out of it,

1395
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 2: like our selfish desires, which you have to look at that,

1396
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,320
Speaker 2: like the simple base and incentives. And for a lot

1397
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 2: of us, for a lot of folks, still it begins

1398
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 2: with I want to kill deer. I want to kill

1399
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 2: big deer, And it might stay that way for long,

1400
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:12,120
Speaker 2: for a long while. I think the trick is finding

1401
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 2: ways in which we can satisfy that based desire, like

1402
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:20,680
Speaker 2: that initial desire, while also expanding beyond that to satisfy

1403
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:24,000
Speaker 2: the rest, realizing that when we satisfy the rest, it

1404
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 2: comes back around and helps with that initial desire too.

1405
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:30,920
Speaker 2: There's some people who don't need that initial thing, who

1406
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:32,600
Speaker 2: just want to do the right thing for the ecosystem,

1407
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 2: and that's enough satisfaction. But it's not. No shame on

1408
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 2: anyone else who also like, Hey, I'm spending this money

1409
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:42,600
Speaker 2: because I really like big deer, and the rest of

1410
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 2: it's great too, and I want to help it, but

1411
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:45,760
Speaker 2: I still really want my big deal. That's okay too,

1412
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 2: And so I think the idea that I want to

1413
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 2: keep hammering is like both are possible. But to your point,

1414
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,120
Speaker 2: don't just get stuck in the original thing. It's a

1415
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 2: much larger universe. Explore those other things. Is there are

1416
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 2: better ways. There's always a better way, and if we

1417
01:19:03,080 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 2: can continue moving down that path towards a better way,

1418
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 2: it will help with the original thing. That's like my

1419
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 2: that's like my thesis coming out of this, and that

1420
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 2: I think is where more attention, to your point, more

1421
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 2: attention needs to be focused on that stuff, because there's

1422
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:21,439
Speaker 2: a lot of people talking about the obvious stuff, not

1423
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 2: as many people are talking about that next step.

1424
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's that's why I like to spend time

1425
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:34,560
Speaker 3: with ecologists, you know why. I'm a big supporter of

1426
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 3: pheasants forever. I'll be at peasant Fest coming up the

1427
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 3: first weekend in March, two falls. I'll be speaking actually

1428
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 3: five times my pitches in here now. And the part

1429
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:48,719
Speaker 3: of what we're gonna be I'm gonna be talking about

1430
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:50,760
Speaker 3: is this right, I'm meant to be balling people off

1431
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 3: doing food plots. But what's really interesting to me is

1432
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:59,680
Speaker 3: how even that you know that that Pheasants Forever is

1433
01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 3: that who started the Farm Build Biologists program, right, they

1434
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 3: pay for a portion of those salaries and all of

1435
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 3: that that happens, and we have farm build programs that

1436
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 3: are focusing on doing the best thing for the land.

1437
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 3: Last year I spoke at a landowner and operator forum

1438
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 3: and it was about essentially getting those people to talk.

1439
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,120
Speaker 3: And one of the things that another presenter talked about

1440
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 3: was red acres green acres, and so green acres are

1441
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,599
Speaker 3: is the best land, right is the land that's going

1442
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:41,280
Speaker 3: to be the most highly productive. Let's farm that. Let's

1443
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 3: not farm those red acres. So you might see a

1444
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 3: field and you know how you saw how the fields

1445
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 3: are around here, right where they're kind of go in

1446
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:50,200
Speaker 3: and out of these hillsides and into these wood edges

1447
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and you know you're losing the

1448
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 3: first twenty five feet to shade and to deer and

1449
01:20:59,439 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 3: to you know whatever, you know, the wildlife. Well, rather

1450
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:05,760
Speaker 3: than that being another twenty five feet a corner bean,

1451
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 3: so let's put that into twenty five feet of CRP

1452
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 3: or thirty feet of CRP. That's a perennial cover. That's

1453
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:17,680
Speaker 3: a better filter for runoff. That's a that's for carbon sequestering.

1454
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:23,040
Speaker 3: We're not ripping that soil up every year. And really

1455
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 3: interesting talking to a couple of guys who were doing that,

1456
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 3: and they were actually whether they're outfitters, and they were

1457
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:32,599
Speaker 3: leasing land from farm their farmer outfitters, so they were

1458
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:36,519
Speaker 3: commodity farmers and so they had their own farm, but

1459
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 3: then they were also leasing land from other other farmers

1460
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:40,519
Speaker 3: and they were showing them what they were doing on

1461
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 3: their property. They said, we will pay you whatever the

1462
01:21:43,080 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 3: rate is for the whole thing, you know, for all

1463
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 3: the x amount of acres that you guys are currently

1464
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:51,680
Speaker 3: being paid for. But what we'd like to do is

1465
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,839
Speaker 3: take the red acres and not put those inputs into

1466
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:59,599
Speaker 3: that area, put that into CRP, and if the CRP

1467
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:04,360
Speaker 3: had paid is less than what the base rental payment is,

1468
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 3: will make up the difference. So you get to see

1469
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 3: our payment and we'll say if it's one hundred and

1470
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 3: seventy five, and then we'll pay the other twenty five.

1471
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 3: If it's two hundred dollars an acre for everything else,

1472
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 3: and we'll put that in and we're not putting our

1473
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 3: inputs into marginal land. Then we're we're putting you know,

1474
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 3: we're focusing on the best land, and then we're creating

1475
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 3: that habitat and then as upland I think they're also

1476
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 3: doing deer deer outfitting. They were creating better habitat for

1477
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 3: not only the animals that they were that that was

1478
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 3: a part of their operation, but for everything. I was like,

1479
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 3: and these guys were young bucks like you, and I'm like,

1480
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,720
Speaker 3: holy moly, you guys are killing it. I mean, just

1481
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 3: from a thought process, right and and you know, here

1482
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 3: I'm sixty five, and what are you like twenty seven now?

1483
01:22:52,200 --> 01:23:08,720
Speaker 3: Or I just wasn't that far along in any of

1484
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 3: this as you are, and those guys were so so

1485
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,679
Speaker 3: I think that's great, you know, I think I think

1486
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,679
Speaker 3: that's kind of that's great. I also wasn't. I've always

1487
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 3: been kind of a casual hunter. You know. Ninety nine

1488
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 3: percent of the hunting that I've done in my life

1489
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 3: it's right out here. You know. A couple of couple

1490
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:31,320
Speaker 3: of trips that you know, end up on television and

1491
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 3: kind of looks like, WHOA, you can do that stuff

1492
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 3: all the time. No, I did it once, you know,

1493
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:41,640
Speaker 3: and it was a heck of a trip, you know,

1494
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 3: and so it's never. It's never. It was never my

1495
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 3: primary focus to begin with. I mean, I like killing

1496
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 3: big john bucks. You know there's a few on the

1497
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:52,639
Speaker 3: wall back there, putting that big fella right there.

1498
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and pretty good for a casual hunter done.

1499
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 3: But you know, it's so funny about that. I meant

1500
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,880
Speaker 3: to bring that up earlier that we'll just leave a

1501
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,120
Speaker 3: little bit. I meant to bring that up earlier where

1502
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 3: we were talking, to go all the way back to

1503
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 3: the beginning of what we talked about. That's exactly how

1504
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 3: I what you and I did that day when and

1505
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 3: you ended up killing that buck that's back over here

1506
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 3: on the on the table.

1507
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:17,600
Speaker 2: I should I getta turna turned the camera against so

1508
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:19,120
Speaker 2: they can see my beautiful deer back there.

1509
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:29,960
Speaker 3: Dad, I'll just pull it up here, pray not to

1510
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 3: break its nose off. Here's your here's your big giant buck.

1511
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:34,280
Speaker 2: Oh man, look at that. I got to figure out

1512
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:35,600
Speaker 2: a way to get back up there and grab that

1513
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 2: thing soon.

1514
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's that hole in it everything.

1515
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:39,559
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool.

1516
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's sitting right over there with Cols. You know,

1517
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 3: Cal killed a really nice one too. Yeah, But I

1518
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 3: did the same thing with that buck. With with with

1519
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 3: the standard, which this is smaller than I might add

1520
01:24:50,680 --> 01:24:51,559
Speaker 3: if we were going to compare.

1521
01:24:51,720 --> 01:24:56,040
Speaker 2: Thanks thanks for then by several orders of men too.

1522
01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:00,360
Speaker 3: But I did the same thing with that. You know,

1523
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 3: there was an area back there that I had spent

1524
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 3: this time in. I saw this deer. I figured him out.

1525
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 3: I went back to the tractor and was brush hooking

1526
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:13,000
Speaker 3: the edges like I always did, left the tractor running

1527
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,040
Speaker 3: and the thing is and I ran over and strapped

1528
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 3: to a climber to this elm tree that wasn't really

1529
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:20,800
Speaker 3: big enough to hold me. And two weeks later I

1530
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 3: crawled up in that thing. I had deer walked up

1531
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 3: the same spot and that's where I killed it. Yeah,

1532
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:26,960
Speaker 3: there was just the same Oh, and there was an

1533
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 3: apple tree there too, and it was it was the

1534
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 3: end of October, and in those days we could hunt

1535
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 3: at the end of October with rifle. So I shot

1536
01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,360
Speaker 3: him at thirty five yards with a rifle. Kind of

1537
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 3: felt bad about it. I was like, man killed him

1538
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:45,679
Speaker 3: with a boat, But then I probably just wounded him.

1539
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:51,080
Speaker 3: But it's that all of that is, you know, I

1540
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 3: get excited about it. I'm real interested in it. But

1541
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:55,559
Speaker 3: the thing that I'm real.

1542
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 1: Uh.

1543
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:58,679
Speaker 3: The thing that I like most about all of this

1544
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 3: is how much fun it is, for how interesting it is,

1545
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 3: and how it's just a part of conservation. Like I said,

1546
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 3: we went back to that yard stick thing right up

1547
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 3: the farm that if the farm's a yardstick used to

1548
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 3: be three or four inches. Hunting was something we got

1549
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 3: to do when we got the choice. N That's why

1550
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:19,760
Speaker 3: we were never bow hunters when it just I mean,

1551
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna be sitting in a tree first part

1552
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:25,600
Speaker 3: of we're picking corn stuff. Have time for that. And

1553
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:28,120
Speaker 3: one of these days I may get back out there

1554
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 3: with the boat. You've kind of inspired me.

1555
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to keep pushing you.

1556
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it'll be a crossbow. But yeah, uh so

1557
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:39,439
Speaker 3: I want to it's all a part of it. Yeah.

1558
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 2: So I want to assume let's assume that there is

1559
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:47,800
Speaker 2: at least one person listening to this, who's heard what

1560
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 2: you have to say and what I have to say,

1561
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,320
Speaker 2: and who thinks to themselves. Huh. You know, I've been

1562
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 2: dabbling with the food plots. I've been dabbling with deer

1563
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:58,880
Speaker 2: habitat improvement and trying to get better hunting. Some of

1564
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 2: these things that Mark and Doug have said makes some sense.

1565
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,960
Speaker 2: There's probably value in expanding my horizons of what I'm

1566
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:07,760
Speaker 2: looking at here, and maybe I can start trying to

1567
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:11,439
Speaker 2: do some things that help the larger biotic community. As

1568
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:15,160
Speaker 2: Leopold put it right. You know, I don't know where

1569
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:17,080
Speaker 2: I heard this first. I think it might have been

1570
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:19,960
Speaker 2: my friend Craig Doherty, but I heard this idea of

1571
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:25,000
Speaker 2: Leopold landscapes and that being like a land of property,

1572
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:27,720
Speaker 2: an area, a landscape managed in this kind of way

1573
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:29,080
Speaker 2: that we're talking about, with a little bit more of

1574
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 2: a holistic focus, with an ion doing what's right for

1575
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:35,880
Speaker 2: the whole ecosystem, for the biotic community. So this idea,

1576
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 2: if someone's listening and thinks themselves, yeah, you know what,

1577
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:41,519
Speaker 2: I want to try to shift my little back forward

1578
01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 2: into more of a Leopold landscape. What would be the

1579
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 2: guidelines or what would be a handful of principles or

1580
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,400
Speaker 2: guidelines to think about as someone embarks on that project,

1581
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:02,759
Speaker 2: either from your perspective, Doug, or what you think Leopold

1582
01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 2: would say if we wanted, if we wanted to look

1583
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 2: back at the original og of this idea, what do

1584
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 2: you think some of those things would be that that

1585
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 2: we could think about.

1586
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,519
Speaker 3: One of the first things I encourage any landowner to

1587
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:26,839
Speaker 3: do is to engage with their local conservation departments. And remember,

1588
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:28,760
Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time in Wisconsin, but as

1589
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:33,200
Speaker 3: I've expanded, my people have contacted me from all over

1590
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 3: the country about land management. One of the things that

1591
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 3: the number one thing I say is take advantage of

1592
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:42,360
Speaker 3: as many resources that are available to you as possible.

1593
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 3: Of course I'll tell them to read, you know, Sam

1594
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 3: County Almanac, or excuse me, some of these other writings

1595
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 3: of Leopold, but engaging with a local land conservation department

1596
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:57,000
Speaker 3: like we had in Wisconsin. We have them on the

1597
01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 3: county level, most you know, and most of the folks

1598
01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:03,840
Speaker 3: that we engage with whitetail deer hunters in the in

1599
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 3: the Midwest and the East. Almost every state has a

1600
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:10,240
Speaker 3: Department of Natural Resources, and they'll have like a forestry department.

1601
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:17,000
Speaker 3: Almost every state has a natural resource conservation service. And

1602
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:19,719
Speaker 3: there those are the farm that's where the farm build

1603
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:26,479
Speaker 3: biologists are. I think it's really important to engage with

1604
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:30,439
Speaker 3: those people. But and don't be intimidated by their job.

1605
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:33,480
Speaker 3: I mean, in a lot of their this is reservices

1606
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 3: to you. I mean it's your tax dollars at work.

1607
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:37,400
Speaker 3: Is that they'll come out and they'll spend some time

1608
01:29:37,439 --> 01:29:40,080
Speaker 3: with you learning about that. But I also think it's

1609
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:43,880
Speaker 3: important that you can meet try to meet people that

1610
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 3: are are are like minded, you know, engage with with

1611
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 3: the National Deer Association chapters, engage with Pheasants Forever chapters,

1612
01:29:56,360 --> 01:29:58,439
Speaker 3: woodland owner chapters. I mean, if you're a landowner, you

1613
01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 3: should be in Those are things that you should at

1614
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 3: least have a cursory knowledge of. And then and then

1615
01:30:03,439 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 3: you kind of go, yeah, I like the idea that.

1616
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:07,679
Speaker 3: I don't like that. I don't like the idea of that.

1617
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:12,439
Speaker 3: But some of the the I one of the things

1618
01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 3: that I tell people who contact me about land management

1619
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,760
Speaker 3: consulting or I ask them is to talk think about

1620
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 3: what their goals and objectives are. You know, they might say,

1621
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:25,400
Speaker 3: I'll want big giant bucks, and then my question usually

1622
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 3: is and is there anything else? Or why did you

1623
01:30:28,600 --> 01:30:31,880
Speaker 3: buy the property? The other thing is to get yourself

1624
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:34,559
Speaker 3: a I mean, Onyx is a wonderful tool, but get

1625
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 3: yourself a laminated aerial photograph of your property and look

1626
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:45,040
Speaker 3: at it from the five thousand foot view right, and

1627
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:47,560
Speaker 3: then just you can laminate anything. You can take a

1628
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:53,439
Speaker 3: erasable marker and mark on there and and think about

1629
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 3: the different things about that property. Just sort of take

1630
01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 3: take stock of what you have. You know, like this

1631
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 3: is where the water is. And then there's apps that

1632
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:17,120
Speaker 3: you can put on your phone. The plan identifying absolutely necessarily. Yeah,

1633
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:19,320
Speaker 3: seek is the one. Actually that I have an old

1634
01:31:19,360 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 3: man head. I was forgetting there for a second. Uh,

1635
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 3: And that's fantastic that you're learning on your own a

1636
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 3: lot of what these things are. You don't have to

1637
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:31,960
Speaker 3: be carrying a book around with you. You just tick

1638
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 3: a picture and that has been one of the most

1639
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 3: valuable tools for me. And then I have on X

1640
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 3: on my phone and I'm constantly I'm walking around. If

1641
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 3: I showed you my on X screen right now, I

1642
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 3: mean there's layers in there. But of all the properties

1643
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:48,040
Speaker 3: that I'm involved with, I've got all kinds of different notes.

1644
01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:50,200
Speaker 3: Some of it's deer hunting notes, some of it's turkey

1645
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:52,160
Speaker 3: hunting notes, some of it's trails and all of this.

1646
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:56,400
Speaker 3: But it's also cool stuff that I say, you take

1647
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:58,040
Speaker 3: a picture and you know, and that's what it is.

1648
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:03,600
Speaker 3: So you're gathering information about your property and then you know,

1649
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 3: learn about your your watershed. You know, I'm in the

1650
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:12,599
Speaker 3: in the Little Baraboo River watershed here and our crek,

1651
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:14,799
Speaker 3: our little trout stream here is unnamed, but it empties

1652
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 3: into McGlenn Creek. You know, know how everything is connected.

1653
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 3: Get involved with a you know, if there's a neighborhood

1654
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 3: organization like a you know, like an NDA chapter, that

1655
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,400
Speaker 3: might lead to a cooperative or something like that. Just

1656
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 3: kind of figure out who what your neighbors are like,

1657
01:32:31,439 --> 01:32:34,240
Speaker 3: and who your neighbors are is there are there things

1658
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:37,080
Speaker 3: that we can do together. That kind of goes back

1659
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 3: to some of that og farming stuff when I was

1660
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 3: a kid, when it came time to bail and hey,

1661
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:43,560
Speaker 3: i'll tell you part of the reason I got to

1662
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 3: hunt on other people's properties because when it came time

1663
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 3: to bail and hay and they need people stack in

1664
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 3: hand wagons areunloading them. Yeah, we got that call and

1665
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 3: b Barry just knew you had to be there for it, right.

1666
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 3: And it wasn't in exchange for it, because they've come

1667
01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 3: and help you with yours too. But that was that community,

1668
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:02,440
Speaker 3: that cooperation, that sort of thing, and I think that

1669
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 3: that's a great opportunity for fun, but it's also that

1670
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:13,360
Speaker 3: great opportunity for cooperation, for becoming neighbors, and you know,

1671
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 3: sort of everything's connected, and that's those connections I think

1672
01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:18,400
Speaker 3: are super important.

1673
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would you say would be like, I don't know,

1674
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 2: maybe your top two off the cuff two for kind

1675
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:29,720
Speaker 2: of projects. So when I say at two for I'm

1676
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 2: thinking of a project someone could do on the land

1677
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,200
Speaker 2: that is great for deer and deer hunting, but also

1678
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:40,160
Speaker 2: great for overall biodiversity or ecosystem health. Can you think

1679
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 2: of a couple of your top projects that would be

1680
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 2: good for both of those things that someone could be

1681
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 2: listening today and say, okay, if that's something I got

1682
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 2: to look into further that I could actually do put

1683
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,559
Speaker 2: on the ground this coming year. To two.

1684
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:58,240
Speaker 3: Sure, creating edge and feather edging, Like in our case,

1685
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 3: there's in a lot around here and guys that I know,

1686
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 3: people that I know that owned property, you know, for

1687
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,559
Speaker 3: recreation or hunting is yet you see a lot of

1688
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,680
Speaker 3: these hard edges right where the trees go straight up

1689
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:09,880
Speaker 3: and here's the edge of the field, and that's what

1690
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 3: it looks like and what we really want is more

1691
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:15,919
Speaker 3: of this. So feather edging is one of those things

1692
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 3: there you need to learn how you know what's good

1693
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 3: and what's bad, right, I mean good tree, good tree,

1694
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,000
Speaker 3: bad tree, good shrub bad shrub. But those are the

1695
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:28,600
Speaker 3: kinds of things that you're immediately creating habitat along a

1696
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 3: field edge, and especially if it's kind of a you know,

1697
01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:34,720
Speaker 3: it's not a productive field or I mean when I

1698
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:37,840
Speaker 3: say field, I mean openings. You know, that's one of

1699
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:43,840
Speaker 3: them specifically for deer. Were just in general.

1700
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:45,639
Speaker 2: Two first, so one that would be good for something

1701
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 2: that's good for deer and overall biodiversity or ecosystem health.

1702
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, so feather edging is one of them because

1703
01:34:53,160 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 3: that provides so much. It provides both for deer and

1704
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:01,960
Speaker 3: it also provides for everything. H and uh and that's

1705
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 3: really one. If you get the opportunity and you get

1706
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:09,479
Speaker 3: involved with conservation departments and nrcs, they get funding for

1707
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:15,000
Speaker 3: that too. So so uh so that's one of them.

1708
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:17,400
Speaker 3: I was gonna say food plots, but I can't say.

1709
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:23,479
Speaker 2: That you do your super diverse native seed food plot.

1710
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:24,160
Speaker 2: That'sud of cool.

1711
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, and that's that's actually what I'm uh, what

1712
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 3: I've got going on uh coming up this spring is

1713
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 3: we're doing a pollinator habitat part of the Conservation Stewardship Program.

1714
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 3: I've been involved with so many different things that the

1715
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:40,360
Speaker 3: CSP program is for for folks who've been involved with

1716
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 3: a bunch of different programs. So part of my agreement

1717
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,839
Speaker 3: this time around is I wanted to do these things anyway,

1718
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 3: but is to to do these the pollinator habitat and

1719
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 3: and you can look at what seed mixes are are

1720
01:35:56,640 --> 01:36:01,479
Speaker 3: part of that, uh, and the pollinators are interesting, but man,

1721
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 3: a lot of that stuff is grasses and forbs, and

1722
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 3: so it's not only just for pollinators, but it's for

1723
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:09,400
Speaker 3: you know, uh, it's for a lot of the bird

1724
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 3: the species. But then deer get in there and eat

1725
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:15,559
Speaker 3: that too, And it's great betting because there's gonna be

1726
01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 3: big grasses along with those forbes up to game birds

1727
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 3: utilize that kind of stuff. So yeah, the perennial U

1728
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:27,200
Speaker 3: the perennial food plot and in this case calling it

1729
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:33,920
Speaker 3: really what we're doing, which is the pollinator habitat and

1730
01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:36,720
Speaker 3: those are we're transitioning those too. That's I guess an

1731
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:40,879
Speaker 3: important point on ours is that we're there's a pollinator

1732
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 3: habitat that's being connected to another pollinator habitat there with

1733
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 3: we're feather edging all the way along the edge of

1734
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 3: the road that goes up to it, so there's almost

1735
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:54,120
Speaker 3: like this you know, connectivity. One other thing that I

1736
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 3: would mention that I did, it's coming up on ten

1737
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:59,040
Speaker 3: years ago now, was on a real steep slope back here.

1738
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:01,719
Speaker 3: I didn't think i'd ever planned another pine tree because

1739
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:05,800
Speaker 3: of some things, but we planted pines on some real

1740
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,640
Speaker 3: steep slopes back here as a part of our and

1741
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 3: as a part of a part of our plan. That

1742
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:15,320
Speaker 3: land that you know we've been farming, it was on

1743
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:17,720
Speaker 3: the side hill like this, and we planted trees and

1744
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 3: that we planned planted pines exclusively, and it formed a

1745
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:33,760
Speaker 3: It formed a you know, a connection wildlife connecting area.

1746
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:35,040
Speaker 3: And I thought, well, the deer were going to use

1747
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:37,639
Speaker 3: that a lot. But it's been amazing. I've had trail

1748
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:40,639
Speaker 3: camera back there. How other species are using that as well.

1749
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 3: And then of course there's thermal cover and all of

1750
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:48,000
Speaker 3: that as well. So I really want to see a

1751
01:37:48,160 --> 01:37:50,559
Speaker 3: more hardwoods planet in our area. Seems like we have

1752
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:53,240
Speaker 3: plenty of planes. But then I'm you know, contradicting myself,

1753
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:57,639
Speaker 3: and I planted for acres of four acres of of

1754
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 3: of pines back here on these hillside strips, and they

1755
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,720
Speaker 3: worked out really well for a lot of different species.

1756
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:03,919
Speaker 3: But dear love them.

1757
01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 2: It's great. That's three three good ones, Doug. So if

1758
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 2: I didn't have to, if I didn't have to go

1759
01:38:12,560 --> 01:38:14,799
Speaker 2: and make sure my son got picked up from school

1760
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:18,920
Speaker 2: at a relatively punctual time, I would say we could

1761
01:38:18,920 --> 01:38:21,759
Speaker 2: talk for another hour on this, But but we can't.

1762
01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:26,880
Speaker 2: So I guess I want to. I want to do

1763
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 2: this again in more detail, because there's still I'm diving

1764
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 2: deep into this world.

1765
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:32,160
Speaker 3: Doug.

1766
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:33,960
Speaker 2: You'd be you'd be happy to know that I'm going

1767
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 2: further and further down the trail in your footsteps, trying

1768
01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:42,639
Speaker 2: to find ways to to expand my habitat horizons and impact.

1769
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:47,720
Speaker 2: But since we can't do it right now, if I

1770
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:51,000
Speaker 2: wanted to, or if anybody else wanted to go more

1771
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 2: into these ideas, dive more into the stuff, could you

1772
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 2: give us some recommendations. Is there any of your own content,

1773
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:00,120
Speaker 2: of your own work that's out there right now that

1774
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:02,800
Speaker 2: you'd recommend we go see. I know there's some cool

1775
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,120
Speaker 2: short films that came out within the last year, So

1776
01:39:05,160 --> 01:39:08,000
Speaker 2: maybe that's something you want to plug, and then plug

1777
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:10,840
Speaker 2: anything else of your own as well as if there's

1778
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:14,400
Speaker 2: any other books or content from anyone else that you

1779
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:17,360
Speaker 2: think would be worth us checking out to get deeper

1780
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:20,559
Speaker 2: into this idea of you know, creating land or creating

1781
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 2: Leopold landscapes, this bigger picture kind of work.

1782
01:39:25,560 --> 01:39:29,280
Speaker 3: Sure, reach out to my friends at the Eldo Leopold Foundation.

1783
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 3: Go to their website, the Oldo Leo Foundation dot org.

1784
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 3: That's just a wealth of of Leopold stuff. I've been

1785
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:43,360
Speaker 3: writing and working with Uh Savage and we did Savage

1786
01:39:43,439 --> 01:39:48,160
Speaker 3: Arms Company and Onyx and in both of those I

1787
01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:50,920
Speaker 3: wrote some articles about you know, chronic wasting disease. In

1788
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 3: this year now coming up, I'm gonna be doing more

1789
01:39:53,960 --> 01:39:59,800
Speaker 3: work with Savage about about exactly this conversation right, the

1790
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,679
Speaker 3: pilosophical stuff. But if you go on to my website,

1791
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:07,240
Speaker 3: Doug Duram dot com. Oddly, you know, you can find

1792
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:11,200
Speaker 3: some of my content there. You go on Sharing the

1793
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:14,639
Speaker 3: Land and you can see some of the content there.

1794
01:40:16,479 --> 01:40:21,160
Speaker 3: We will be doing more about farm this year again,

1795
01:40:21,960 --> 01:40:26,240
Speaker 3: and Uh, there's some short stuff about about sharing the

1796
01:40:26,320 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 3: land that I think is real, is really important, and

1797
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:33,719
Speaker 3: so sharing the Land dot com, Doug Dura dot com.

1798
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:36,320
Speaker 3: You can just kind of dig around in there, and

1799
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:40,320
Speaker 3: I really encourage people to watch the video that's on

1800
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 3: Savage's website. It's actually part of their Serve the Land series.

1801
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:50,400
Speaker 3: It's twenty two minute video about Leopold and the Riley

1802
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 3: Game Cooperative and you can pretty much figure out I'm

1803
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 3: in it for like two seconds. But I was part

1804
01:40:58,040 --> 01:41:00,839
Speaker 3: of the production of the whole thing and put it together,

1805
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:06,200
Speaker 3: and I wrote about Leopold there and how he's influenced me.

1806
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:10,840
Speaker 3: But also that really introduces the idea and the thought process.

1807
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:15,200
Speaker 3: How too is one thing. How to think about it,

1808
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 3: I think is really you know, basic level developing a

1809
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 3: conservation philosophy. Think about that. What's my place in the world.

1810
01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:26,479
Speaker 3: So I know, I just threw all kinds of stuff

1811
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:28,360
Speaker 3: at you, but that's who I am.

1812
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:31,679
Speaker 2: I guess all good stuff, Doug, And we wouldn't expect

1813
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:35,559
Speaker 2: anything less. And I appreciate you. I appreciate you talking

1814
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:38,599
Speaker 2: about this with me, and hope we get a chance

1815
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:39,280
Speaker 2: to do it again soon.

1816
01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hope so too. So say hello to Everett

1817
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:51,120
Speaker 3: and Coley and and uh yeah, I hope to see

1818
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:53,840
Speaker 3: you guys again soon, and you know, thanks for the

1819
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:56,600
Speaker 3: involvement everything with you that you have been involved with.

1820
01:41:56,640 --> 01:41:59,639
Speaker 3: It was fun meeting up on that on that triple

1821
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:01,640
Speaker 3: the land at the back forty stuff I think was

1822
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:06,240
Speaker 3: really important to Yeah, man, I'm a big admirer of yours.

1823
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:09,840
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. And uh and thank you again for

1824
01:42:09,439 --> 01:42:12,040
Speaker 2: uh for sharing the land. It was was a heck

1825
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:13,560
Speaker 2: of an experience down there with you. I had so

1826
01:42:13,640 --> 01:42:16,799
Speaker 2: much fun and I can't wait to share that story

1827
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 2: with the rest of the world. I think folks will

1828
01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 2: enjoy it and I will always look back on that fondly.

1829
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:27,439
Speaker 3: So, uh, that's cool. And one last thing, Man knows

1830
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:31,880
Speaker 3: how to run a chance saw I was trusted, man,

1831
01:42:31,920 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 3: I was yeah, yeah, I was like, I was watching

1832
01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:36,800
Speaker 3: I'm in the skid steer, y'all see it. I was like, yeah,

1833
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:39,560
Speaker 3: Mark knows what he's doing. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

1834
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:41,639
Speaker 3: I was surprised by that, but I kind of was.

1835
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:44,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's an underhanded compliment or not, Doug,

1836
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna take it, all right, let's talk against

1837
01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:54,920
Speaker 2: So all right, thank you for listening. Hope you enjoyed

1838
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:58,599
Speaker 2: that one appreciate you being here and let's just send

1839
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:01,760
Speaker 2: it on out here quickly. Until next time, Thank you

1840
01:43:01,920 --> 01:43:03,679
Speaker 2: and stay wired.

1841
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 1: Tome mm HM