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Speaker 1: On this episode of newch World, American K to twelve

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Speaker 1: education appears to be developing a teacher morale crash. Recent

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Speaker 1: surveys have revealed that the appeal of the teaching profession

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Speaker 1: and job satisfaction of teachers has been declining for years.

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Speaker 1: Stagnant wages, a higher cost of post secondary education, and

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Speaker 1: the lack of job security are some of the factors

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Speaker 1: that have likely contributed to the decline of teacher satisfaction.

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Speaker 1: According to the most recent teacher survey by ed Choice

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Speaker 1: Mourning consult only thirty nine percent of teachers fee OK

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Speaker 1: to twelve educations on the right track in their local

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Speaker 1: school district. In addition, only fifteen percent of teachers said

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Speaker 1: they would recommend the teaching profession to friends and family members.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the issues teachers are facing

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Speaker 1: right now and why are they feeling so burned out?

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Speaker 1: Here to discuss the result also their recent survey. I

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Speaker 1: am really pleased to welcome my guest, Robert en Low,

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Speaker 1: President and CEO of ED Choice. Robert, welcome and thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining me on News World.

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Speaker 2: Mister speaker, thank you very much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Can you briefly talk about ED Choice and your mission.

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Speaker 2: Sure, ed Choice is the legacy foundation of Milton and

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Speaker 2: Rose Friedman. We started out as the Milton and Rose

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Speaker 2: Friedman Foundation. Many of your listeners, I assume, will know

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Speaker 2: who Milton Friedman the economist is. Our job is very simple.

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Speaker 2: We fight to advocate for policies where every child can

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Speaker 2: get every dollar to go to every learning opportunity in America.

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Speaker 2: We want full and universal school choice and we've been

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Speaker 2: the leading organization doing that since nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 1: I should say this with anybody who does not know.

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Speaker 1: Milton Friedman was maybe the most influential economists in the

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Speaker 1: United States in the last two generations, and did a

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Speaker 1: series with his wife called Free to Choose, which was

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Speaker 1: on television, which had a remarkable impact. People like Ronald

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Speaker 1: Reagan really resonated with the concept of freedom, which was

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Speaker 1: at the heart of what Milton was all about. So

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Speaker 1: school choice was one example of his overall commitment to

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Speaker 1: maximizing freedom and giving people the greatest range of choices.

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Speaker 1: So talk about different kinds of school choice and the

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Speaker 1: kind of school choice that ED Choice supports.

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Speaker 2: Sure, you know, when we started in nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 2: just by way of growth, there were six school choice

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Speaker 2: programs operating in six states. Now there are eighty three

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Speaker 2: school choice programs operating in thirty three states in the

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Speaker 2: district of Columbia and Puerto Rico, serving now over a

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Speaker 2: million students. So this is amazing growth. In the last

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Speaker 2: twenty five years and the last four years you've seen

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Speaker 2: the most amazing growth. And what we mean by school choice.

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Speaker 2: There are different mechanisms for school choice. There are school vouchers,

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Speaker 2: there's tax credit programs. There's now education savings account programs.

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Speaker 2: Let me make sure your listeners know the difference. A

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Speaker 2: school voucher program is very simple. The money set aside

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Speaker 2: for your child goes to the private school of choice.

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Speaker 2: A charter school is very much the same. A parent

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Speaker 2: chooses a charter school and the money goes there. A

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Speaker 2: tax credit program is you divert your tax resources to

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Speaker 2: education and the government gives it back to you. And

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Speaker 2: then the new programs called education savings accounts. This is

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Speaker 2: what happens since the pandemic. It's not just about getting

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Speaker 2: money to go to a private school. It's about getting

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Speaker 2: moneyes to families who can customize their education. They're called

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Speaker 2: education savings accounts. So if I want to go part

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Speaker 2: time to a private school because they have a great

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Speaker 2: math program, but I need a tutor for science, I

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Speaker 2: can do that. If I want to go to part

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Speaker 2: time to a charter school because they have a great

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Speaker 2: stem program, I can do that and supplement it with

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Speaker 2: other tutors or other curriculums. So education savings are basically

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Speaker 2: a way to get money in the hands of parents

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Speaker 2: who can customize their child's education. And then since twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 2: eleven states have passed universal educational savings acount programs, which.

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Speaker 1: Is really just an extraordinary change from thirty years ago.

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Speaker 2: Oh, dramatic change. And now we're looking at the fact

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Speaker 2: that thirty six percent of all Americans are now eligible

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Speaker 2: to receive a scholarship to go to the school or

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Speaker 2: learning opportunity to their choice. Just imagine that twenty years

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Speaker 2: ago you couldn't say that at all, and charter schools

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Speaker 2: were barely off the ground. So we really have created

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Speaker 2: a set of learning opportunities that Milton Friedman would be

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Speaker 2: happy about it. You know.

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Speaker 1: One of the major arguments against school choice on both

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Speaker 1: side of the teachers' union and the traditional bureaucracy is

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Speaker 1: that it would take money away from public education what

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Speaker 1: actually does happen.

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Speaker 2: So what happens in school choice programs is the exact

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Speaker 2: same thing that happens when you pick up and move

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Speaker 2: a house from one public school district to another public

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Speaker 2: school district. The money follows you in this case instead

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Speaker 2: of to the school district of your choice, to the

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Speaker 2: school or learning opportunity of your choice. So think about this.

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Speaker 2: Whenever my friends in the traditional schools or public school

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Speaker 2: say you're draining money, I said, well, if I'm draining money,

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Speaker 2: then anyone who moves public schools is draining money, right,

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Speaker 2: because the money follows kids, and that's what we're looking for,

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Speaker 2: funding kids and not systems. So that's what happens in

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Speaker 2: public schools, and that's what we want to happen to

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Speaker 2: all schooling opportunities. And since in the private school choice

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Speaker 2: world the money is never equal to what the total

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Speaker 2: amount is spent on a child, it cannot cost the

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Speaker 2: state money. Right, So if I'm in a public school

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Speaker 2: and it costs in my home state fifteen thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: for a third grader to go to elementary school here,

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Speaker 2: and in a charter school they get eight thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: and on the school voucher program, they get six thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: Somehow that child is worth nine thousand dollars less going

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Speaker 2: into a private school same child though, So there's just

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Speaker 2: no way it can take money away. But we understand

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Speaker 2: that those folks who oppose school choice really think all

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Speaker 2: the dollars should just stay in government run schools.

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Speaker 1: I noticed that you've done two different surveys, one with

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Speaker 1: teenagers and one with CADA twelve educators on their views

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Speaker 1: and education. Why did you pick those two groups?

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Speaker 2: Just so happened in speaker genger to at the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the pandemic in February twenty twenty, we decided to

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Speaker 2: launch a polling project every month with Morning consult So

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Speaker 2: we've been polling adults and then at the various stages

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Speaker 2: teenagers and teachers every month since twenty twenty, so we

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Speaker 2: have long term data on what the public thinks. And

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Speaker 2: then we've done four teacher polls and three teen polls.

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Speaker 2: And what we're finding on the teen one is the

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Speaker 2: one that bothers me the most. Teens are really not

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Speaker 2: in a good place in schooling right. Our polling found

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Speaker 2: that teens don't feel safe at school, their classes are

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Speaker 2: regularly disrupted. They feel that social media is having a

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Speaker 2: terrible impact on their lives. Absenteeism is a huge issue here.

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Speaker 2: We all know this. They're bored to death. But thirty

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Speaker 2: percent of all teams think school is a waste of time, right.

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Speaker 2: A quarter of all teams say that they have no

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Speaker 2: plans after school. This is a problem, and teens are

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Speaker 2: saying it themselves. They're saying it to us that they

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Speaker 2: don't feel that schooling is what they want. And then

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Speaker 2: you add to that this teacher morale crash, which is

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Speaker 2: worse than it was last year when we did this poll.

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Speaker 2: You use some of the numbers, but nineteen percent of

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Speaker 2: the teachers now say it's going in the right direction nationally.

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Speaker 2: That was thirty five percent a year ago, which is

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Speaker 2: still low. So now you've seen a major crash and

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Speaker 2: the fact that teachers just don't think it's going the

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Speaker 2: right way. And that's because they're seeing the fact that

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Speaker 2: kids are absent. They're seeing all of the modifications with

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Speaker 2: the regulations, they're seeing all of the complications that come

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Speaker 2: in from top down bureaucracy, and they're doing a bunch

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Speaker 2: of catchup work on COVID and they're not able to

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Speaker 2: catch up. So it's a huge problem and teachers are

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Speaker 2: really frustrated, and there are tons of challenges. Positive side, though,

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Speaker 2: mister speaker, seventy percent of teachers that we pulled support

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Speaker 2: education save the accounts. They want something different, They want

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Speaker 2: to get out of the classroom and try something new.

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Speaker 1: One of the competitions has made life so much different

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Speaker 1: is social media and cell phones. And yet in your poll,

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Speaker 1: thirty two percent of teens believe children should be at

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Speaker 1: least thirteen and another thirty five percent believe they should

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Speaker 1: be at least fourteen years old. So that means that

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Speaker 1: sixty seven percent, two out of every three teenagers believe

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Speaker 1: there should be limits to younger people having access. On

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Speaker 1: March twenty fifth, Governor Ron DeSantis signed Florida's HB three.

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Speaker 1: The law requires that social media platforms prohibit users under

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Speaker 1: fourteen years old from creating accounts and requires these platforms

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Speaker 1: to obtain parental consent for account registrants who are fourteen

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Speaker 1: or fifteen years old. Is in year sense that we

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Speaker 1: need some kind of serious effort to restrict very young

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Speaker 1: people from having these kind of social media capabilities.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely need to be very cognitive of the impact

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Speaker 2: of social media on kids younger than thirteen or fourteen.

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Speaker 2: And look, if teenagers at that level are saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: it's bad for kids younger than this, then they're onto something.

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Speaker 2: And if you dig in the data a little bit

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Speaker 2: more than that. First of all, seventy four percent say

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Speaker 2: they're using social media often, very often, or extremely often,

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Speaker 2: so they know it's there, and they also know one

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Speaker 2: are the negative things. Forty percent of the teens that

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Speaker 2: we polled said that the social media has a negative

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Speaker 2: impact on their mental health and their self confidence. This

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Speaker 2: is not good, right, So they know it, and so

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Speaker 2: we just need to be careful of it, particularly under

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Speaker 2: a certain age. And I love that the teenagers kind

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Speaker 2: of set your bar for you thirteen or fourteen, they've

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Speaker 2: already told you they've self policed it, right.

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Speaker 1: These numbers from your poll were a big surprise to

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Speaker 1: me that the very people are telling us that they

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Speaker 1: need some kind of limitations on their behavior.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think they want to limit themselves. Whether they

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Speaker 2: want to be imposed on them that's obviously another question. Right.

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Speaker 2: So they see the negativity and they understand how it

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Speaker 2: shouldn't go down. Forether thn thirteen. They definitely see that.

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Speaker 1: It's clear that different schools are going in different directions

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Speaker 1: trying to deal with cell phones. What do you see

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Speaker 1: as some of the strategies that schools are using to

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Speaker 1: try to get control of the cell phones.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's all sorts of different strategies, as you know.

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Speaker 2: So you could, as we heard, limit the Wi Fi

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Speaker 2: in the school. You could put them in the cell

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Speaker 2: phone bags. You could do a whole bunch of different things.

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Speaker 2: You could say they can't bring them in. If you

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Speaker 2: look at our pole though the teens are okay with

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Speaker 2: having their cell phones in class. Part of my argument

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Speaker 2: would be, if you're really going to be smart about it,

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Speaker 2: I think you need to be thoughtful about how to

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Speaker 2: integrate in a way where the kids cannot feel like

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Speaker 2: something's being taken away from them, but also be safe

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Speaker 2: and have an experience with it. So again, I was

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Speaker 2: just at this one school this morning that was integrating

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Speaker 2: technology and movement in a way that was really cool.

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Speaker 2: They were standing up and using the technologies to do

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Speaker 2: movement in math. At the same time, you've got to

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Speaker 2: figure out a way to integrate it. I think if

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Speaker 2: you restricted to nothing, I think is the teenagers were rebel.

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Speaker 2: I think you and I can remember those days, mister

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Speaker 2: speaker of rebelling when you were young. Schools are doing

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Speaker 2: all sorts of different things. Safety of the kids is

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Speaker 2: the most important. But I think if they're going to

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Speaker 2: use cell phones, teenagers want them. They like them, even

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Speaker 2: though they know that negative impact on them. So we've

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Speaker 2: got to figure out a way to integrate them in

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Speaker 2: a meaningful way. As what I would.

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Speaker 1: Say teenagers in your survey, seventy percent said they said

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Speaker 1: all or most of their classmates are bored in school.

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Speaker 1: Only nineteen percent say that most classmates want to be

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Speaker 1: in school. Nearly three and fourteen said their classmates were

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Speaker 1: bored in class. Fifteen percent of their teens said none

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Speaker 1: of their classmates want to be in school none. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't that suggest do we need to profoundly rethink how

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Speaker 1: these schools work.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And in fact, one of the best things

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Speaker 2: I saw in the poll that we did was that

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Speaker 2: I think it was sixty one percent of all teenagers

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Speaker 2: would be okay with learning outside of the classroom building

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Speaker 2: one or more days a week. So they want a

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Speaker 2: hybrid environment. They're telling you right now, they want something different, right,

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Speaker 2: Their plan is something different and they definitely want to

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Speaker 2: do it. And so it's very interesting how we're seeing

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Speaker 2: teenagers saying, give me something different, do something different for me.

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Speaker 1: I think your survey two out of three teens felt

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Speaker 1: the school is boring. Thirty percent see it as a

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Speaker 1: waste of time. Only forty one percent said they like

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Speaker 1: going to school. And I'd be curious for how many

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Speaker 1: of those. That's because that's where their social life is

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Speaker 1: and who they have loved. And interestingly, teachers tend to

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Speaker 1: underestimate how many of their students are bored. Nineteen percent

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Speaker 1: of the teachers think the students are bored versus seventy percent.

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Speaker 1: Where does your program come down on the whole idea

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Speaker 1: of homeschooling.

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Speaker 2: We welcome all types of schooling, right, and so we

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Speaker 2: actually just funded something called the Homeschool Hub at Johns

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Speaker 2: Hopkins University try and better track and understand homeschooling usage

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Speaker 2: and policy. It's grown so much since the pandemic, and

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Speaker 2: in fact, one of the most important things we've learned

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Speaker 2: since the pandemic is the largest growth in homeschooling is

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Speaker 2: among black single mothers, and that's because they're seeing it's

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Speaker 2: a way to take back the power over educating their kids.

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Speaker 2: They're doing it in record numbers, and they're doing it

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Speaker 2: in ways that are like little villages, right, They're coming together.

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Speaker 2: They're building these little hybrid communities and micro school communities

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Speaker 2: and homeschooling co ops, and it's an amazing, exciting time

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Speaker 2: for homeschooling. So, look, we're agnosticus to school type, but

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Speaker 2: we're not agnostics where the funding can go and how

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Speaker 2: parent and choose right. So we just don't want the

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Speaker 2: system to keep being the way it is, and we

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Speaker 2: think the system has been funded in a way that

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Speaker 2: is negative to kids. And ultimately we won't change this

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Speaker 2: and make this a dynamic, sort of competitive educational system

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Speaker 2: until we can get many, many more options on the

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Speaker 2: plates of kids. And you've seen these kids trying stuff already.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you look at Providence Coast Array. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you know this high school. It's a high

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Speaker 2: school that basically has kids for four days a week

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Speaker 2: and the other day they all go to work. They

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Speaker 2: get a job, and they go to work, and then

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Speaker 2: they can build these internships with these companies that then

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Speaker 2: help them through college and then they have a job

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Speaker 2: after college, and so there's all sorts of different models

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Speaker 2: that could be tried that we're not seeing tried unfortunately

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Speaker 2: in our traditional school system.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's really striking to me is

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Speaker 1: the number of young people who say that social media

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Speaker 1: leads to more bullying, that it increases their mental health concerns.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it strikes me that these are really serious challenges.

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Speaker 2: Yep. And the team said this, right. So if you

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Speaker 2: look at the team poll, they say bullying and classroom

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Speaker 2: disruptions are the biggest thing they see, and in fact,

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Speaker 2: they're very unhappy at their schools because their schools are

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Speaker 2: not dealing with classroom disruptions very well, particularly in middle school.

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Speaker 2: It's rough out there in middle school. If you looked

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Speaker 2: at our pole, sixty five percent of them are seeing

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Speaker 2: classroom disruptions on a regular basis of student violent behavior.

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Speaker 2: It's not good in middle school right now, and so

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Speaker 2: something needs to change, which is another reason why I

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Speaker 2: think universal school choice has been so successful in the

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Speaker 2: last five years.

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Speaker 1: In your judgment, are we seeing more disruption and more

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Speaker 1: bullying than used to be historically normal.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question, and I'm not sure I know

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Speaker 2: all the academic answer that I certainly think we're seeing

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Speaker 2: more disruptions. Mister speaker, I think there's definitely more disruptions

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Speaker 2: because you're not seeing classrooms organized in the way they

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Speaker 2: used to be. As to bullying, I think there's more

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Speaker 2: bullying based on the data I've seen. I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 2: We went to school at a different time when bullying

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Speaker 2: probably wasn't as well noticed and documented as it is now,

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Speaker 2: which is a good thing that has noticed. But I

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Speaker 2: would say, ultimately, what I think is happening here is

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Speaker 2: disruption is significant and serious and worse than it used

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Speaker 2: to be. Classroom disruptions. We just had an experience in

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Speaker 2: Indianapolis where a young special needs kid in first grade

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Speaker 2: was beaten up by another young kid and the teacher

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Speaker 2: stood by and said get them. This stuff is happening,

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Speaker 2: and it's happening in an ongoing way, and it's not

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Speaker 2: a very good thing.

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Speaker 1: And why is it not policed and repressed?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it is. But as you know, the teachers'

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Speaker 2: unions have a lockstep on how the organization of schooling works.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is markets one oh one. When you

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Speaker 2: create monopolies. Their entire job is to ensure that the

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Speaker 2: system maintains its status quo as opposed to work on

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Speaker 2: what really customers and students need. And so I think

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Speaker 2: one of the things the pandemic has done is really

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Speaker 2: shifted how schools are going to have to respond, and

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Speaker 2: I think public schools are having a hard time catching up.

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Speaker 2: Think about it this way. Prior to the pandemic, most

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Speaker 2: families had the same cultural experience of education. We went

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Speaker 2: to school, we had a teacher in front of our classroom.

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Speaker 2: It's what we learned the pandemic. All of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: everyone became a teacher. Everyone looked over the back of

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Speaker 2: their kids, over the school zoom, and they saw what

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Speaker 2: was going on. And there was a different common cultural experience.

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Speaker 2: And that has been leading to this massive change in

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Speaker 2: school choice. And that's one of the reasons why we've

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Speaker 2: seen it growing so much. And so that along with

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Speaker 2: the constant disruption in schools, the constant mental health issues,

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Speaker 2: because I don't think schools are able to handle it. Again,

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Speaker 2: I was at this school turning point here in Indianapolis,

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Speaker 2: serving mostly low income kids on the voucher program, and

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Speaker 2: they had no disruption. They are the same kids that

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Speaker 2: would go to a traditional school system, but there was

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Speaker 2: no disruption, and as the families want a faith based environment,

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Speaker 2: a small environment, environment where they can feel they have control,

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Speaker 2: and that's what they get when they had school choice.

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Speaker 1: Part of this process, it seems to me, is sorting

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Speaker 1: out how to improve the existing schools, figuring out how

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Speaker 1: to create competitive schools, and in some cases shaping the

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Speaker 1: education around the individual rather than having an individual have

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Speaker 1: to be shaped around the education. Given the years you've

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Speaker 1: put into this, are you optimistic that we're migrating in

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Speaker 1: the right direction.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm very optimistic that the policy is migrating in

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Speaker 2: the right direction. I'm not so sure about the implementation yet.

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Speaker 2: We've definitely gotten to the tip of the iceberg, and

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Speaker 2: now it's all the work that we need to do

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Speaker 2: to build the rest of it out. I've been saying

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Speaker 2: this a lot recently. If in the next twenty years,

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Speaker 2: if we look back on all the policy change that's

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Speaker 2: happened in the last ten years, and schooling is being

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Speaker 2: delivered in the same way, with kids sitting in front

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Speaker 2: of a teacher, in front of some kind of a board,

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Speaker 2: then we have failed. Right. We're trying here to disrupt

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Speaker 2: the way delivery of education happens, and you have to

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Speaker 2: do that in a meaningful way. And if you look

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Speaker 2: at every other industry that you've been part of, and

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Speaker 2: I've been part of over the years, you know, could

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Speaker 2: you imagine if we delivered cell phones the way they

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Speaker 2: came out at the beginning. Everyone needs to have access

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Speaker 2: to a common cell phone. And as that giant cell

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Speaker 2: phone at the beginning right where you'd have to carry

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Speaker 2: it around on your shoulder, or the old boomboxes that

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Speaker 2: were huge. I mean, technology advances things, and so I

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Speaker 2: think if we haven't used technology and we haven't used

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Speaker 2: the competitive juices to change how we deliver education, I

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Speaker 2: think we're in real trouble. And part of the challenge

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Speaker 2: to the school choice movement is to not get satisfied

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Speaker 2: with everyone is now free to choose. So like in

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Speaker 2: a state like Arkansas, everyone can choose, that's great. Now

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Speaker 2: they need to be choosing every option and they need

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Speaker 2: to have all the money set aside for them. So

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Speaker 2: you look like a state like Utah, fantastic program they

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Speaker 2: have there every eligible and they can choose all these

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Speaker 2: cool options, but they only allocated eighty million dollars for it.

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Speaker 2: That's not nearly enough, right, and so you have to

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Speaker 2: think about how a competitive marketplace works. And so I'm excited,

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Speaker 2: but the biggest work is in front of us to

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Speaker 2: make sure that we don't mess up the implementation.

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Speaker 1: There's a cultural part of this. That is you can

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Speaker 1: talk about a school choice, and you can talk about homeschooling,

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Speaker 1: but athletics in some ways is the glue that holds

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Speaker 1: together the schools we become a country, and we see

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Speaker 1: this also in our television viewing where sports. If you're

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Speaker 1: going to play on the football team or the soccer

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Speaker 1: team or what have you, you're going to be at

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Speaker 1: the school. That's still a huge factor in keeping people,

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Speaker 1: whether they're learning anything or not, they're socially engaged.

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Speaker 2: I joke that when I get done with taking on

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Speaker 2: the teachers, who knows, I'm going to take on a

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Speaker 2: harder job, which is the high school athletic associations around

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Speaker 2: the country. And the reality of it is, yes, high

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Speaker 2: school athletics has been important for a long time. That's changing, right.

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Speaker 2: People are unbundling their education. If you look at their athletics.

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Speaker 2: A lot of families are doing travel baseball, they're doing

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Speaker 2: travel soccer, they're doing club level programs. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of change that's happening right now, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: a good thing. The more you get to that kind

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Speaker 2: of club level sports, the more you get to community

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Speaker 2: based sports as opposed to school based sports. One of

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Speaker 2: the great things is now homeschoolers can create their own

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Speaker 2: teams or joined to other teams, and so there's bills

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Speaker 2: out there to try and unbundle the athletics, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's the right step in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: In a way, it has all become an industrial system. Now,

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Speaker 1: do you start playing junior or high football so you

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Speaker 1: can play high school football, so you can play college football,

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Speaker 1: so you can be one of the handful of people

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Speaker 1: who make the NFL or the NBA or whatever, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to I really like you out then participate because

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Speaker 1: it's physically good.

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Speaker 2: Correct if you look at the serious club sports. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you start AAU basketball when you're in elementary school if

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Speaker 2: you're good, and so there is a different level that's

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Speaker 2: starting to happen. Ultimately, I think what's beginning to happen

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Speaker 2: though we talk about cultural shifts, we know from the

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Speaker 2: data that the more parents choose the more they start

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Speaker 2: to choose wisely, and the more they choose for the

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Speaker 2: right reasons or the more comfortable they get. The power

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Speaker 2: of choice is a really big deal. So once you

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Speaker 2: help them have that choice and then they start exercising

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Speaker 2: that choice, they go from saying things like I want

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Speaker 2: a good school to what tests are you taking? When

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Speaker 2: are you taking? What's your curriculum? And how are you

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Speaker 2: doing it right? And so as you become a more frankly,

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Speaker 2: a more savvy customer, that's more savvy consumer. As you

427
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Speaker 2: have more choices, you recognize your money follows you, right,

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Speaker 2: you begin to have more power. And I think the

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Speaker 2: same thing would happen with athletics down the road. But

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Speaker 2: unbundling is the future, mister speaker.

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Speaker 1: Are you seeing the rise of information systems that help

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Speaker 1: people sort out which school might be best or which

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Speaker 1: approach might be best for their child?

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Speaker 2: Very early, we're beginning to see this. I love that

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Speaker 2: you bring this up. So, as you know, a market

436
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 2: has three things that are required. It requires demand customers

437
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: that had power to pay. It requires an unbundled supply

438
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 2: and unbridled supply, and it requires good information. We're just

439
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 2: getting to beginning the work on the unbundled supply and

440
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 2: the unbundled information. We're just getting there. There are some

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00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: places out there, like matched or Great Schools, but we're

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00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: just in the nascent stages of that. There's some navigator

443
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: programs for parents that are beginning families. Empower is a

444
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: great one, Love your School, which we've been very supportive of.

445
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: There are some growing ones, but it's a long way

446
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 2: off from being the kind of mature information that we need.

447
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Speaker 2: The one thing we got to be careful is we

448
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: don't want to centralize it, right. I think the charter

449
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 2: sector centralized all this, and I think has become a

450
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: problem when they do that.

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Speaker 1: The only way you centralize it is to have government

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Speaker 1: do it, and if government does it, it won't work, correct,

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Speaker 1: because what you need is a consumer oriented, constantly evolving system,

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00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 1: almost anathetical to the way bureaucracies function.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, which is why I'm excited about education savings

456
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 2: counts in general. Because they can unbundle sort of learning

457
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: from a building. It does create the opportunities for these

458
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 2: kind of proper feedback loops.

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Speaker 1: When you look around the country, what states do you

460
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: think are the most advanced in developing this future education system.

461
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: Florida, Arizona, New Hampshire, Indiana, Arkansas, and then a bunch

462
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: of other ones are starting to grow. So Iowa is

463
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: beginning its process, but it's still just private schools. But

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00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: I think if you look at Florida, Arizona, Indiana, and

465
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: Arkansas and a few others, you're going to see real

466
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: growth down the road. Indiana now it's a voucher program,

467
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 2: but we have an ESSA program as well. Over seventy

468
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: five thousand kids are on the program already, which is

469
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: six point eight percent of the student population. Florida now

470
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 2: has ten percent of the kids are more on the

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00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: choice program. You're really seeing market penetration in states like Arizona, Florida, Indiana,

472
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: and soon to be Arkansas down the road. So it's

473
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: exciting when you look at Florida and you see the

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00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: charts of twenty years ago the percentage of kids that

475
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: were compelled to go to public schools versus the percentage

476
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 2: of kids now compelled to go and all the options

477
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: they have. It's gone from ninety percent to fifty four percent.

478
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 2: And so you're seeing massive change in the marketplace and

479
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: that's great.

480
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it sentially that Jeb Bush was one

481
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: of the great unsung heroes of this whole movement, and

482
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: he carried Florida further faster than any other state in

483
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: the country.

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00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: I think Governor Bush, just like Governor Daniels, sort of

485
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: took those major steps forward, and I think we learned

486
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: from them. I think the challenge we have going forward

487
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 2: in this movement is not letting this sort of idea

488
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 2: of government bureaucratic accountability get in the way of unbundled choice. Right.

489
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: So this is a real challenge because we have people

490
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 2: who want to say, oh, we have to know how

491
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: every single dollar is spent, we have to know how

492
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: everything is done. And while that is true in the

493
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: education Safty account program, for example, in Arizona, I can

494
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 2: tell you where every single dollar goes at every single

495
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: minute of every single day. You may not like where

496
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: it goes, but I can tell you where it goes.

497
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 2: You cannot say that of any of our traditional school systems.

498
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: We've got to be very careful to impose an accountability

499
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: system of the public school sector onto a competitive sector,

500
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: and that would be a real problem if we do that.

501
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: So, if you are a parent and you're really concerned

502
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: about your child and you're really not convinced that they're

503
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: in the right place. Where are the kind of resources

504
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: you could go to to learn what your choices are

505
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: at a practical, real level.

506
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: That's a great question. So many states to have school

507
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 2: choice have state based groups that offer a bunch of information.

508
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: But frankly, come to EdChoice dot org. We have something

509
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: called school choice in your state. It goes over every

510
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 2: single program in America, and if you send us an email,

511
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,679
Speaker 2: we'll connect you with the people on the ground that

512
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 2: can help you with that information. So ed choice dot

513
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: org school choice in your state, we have that information

514
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 2: ready to go.

515
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 1: You really are at the cutting edge, and what you're

516
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: doing with ed choice seems to me is central to

517
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: the survival of the country. I mean, if we don't

518
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: fix education, we're not going to be able to compete

519
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: with anybody, and we're not going to have citizens capable

520
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: of being a really functional citizen and a free society.

521
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: I mean, Jefferson warned that there's never been a people

522
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: who were ignorant and free and that it's impossible.

523
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rose Friedman said it best for me. She said,

524
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: if you have a nation that can't read, can't write,

525
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 2: can't compute, doesn't understand history. Who's going to govern the

526
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 2: affairs of our country?

527
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: We really have both a national security interest, in economic

528
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: interest and a fundamental patriotic interest in getting our systems

529
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: to work. And the work you're doing, Robert, is a

530
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: significant part of that. I want to thank you for

531
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: joining me. Your ED Choice Morning Consult Surveyors also can

532
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: be found on your website at EdChoice dot org, and

533
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: I encourage policymakers, school board members, parents and students to

534
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: check it out. I think they'll find it fascinating and

535
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: it will open up their minds to other possibilities. But

536
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: thank you very much for being our guests.

537
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: Thank you for having mister speaker.

538
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guests, Robert Enlow. You can review

539
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: the results of the ED Choice Morning Consult Teacher survey

540
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: on our show page at Newtsworld dot com. Newsworld is

541
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 1: produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer

542
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: is Guarnsey Slow. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork

543
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks

544
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: to the team at ginglishtree sixty. If you've been enjoying Newsworld,

545
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate

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Speaker 1: us with five stars and give us a review so

547
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: others can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners

548
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: of news World consign up for my three freeweekly columns

549
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: at ginglish three sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Ginglish.

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00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: This is Newtsworld