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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic Production I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: We were in enormous early out of the gate financial difficulty.

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Speaker 1: The company who I promised I was going to get

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Speaker 1: their money back to they were now concerned that they

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Speaker 1: weren't going to get their money back. So they called

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Speaker 1: me down with an ultimatum, Bill, if you don't eliminate

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Speaker 1: tons of jobs, we're gonna have to call in the

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Speaker 1: loan and close you down. And I took a pair

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Speaker 1: of keys out of my pocket and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: here are the keys to the company. Because you asked

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Speaker 1: me to cut my staff and half. We're the close

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Speaker 1: the company down anyway, So what do you want to do.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know whether they were gonna accept my bluff.

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Speaker 1: They handed me the keys back and they said, Bill,

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Speaker 1: will give you another year. Then I slowly started to

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Speaker 1: turn the company around. Welcome. I'm Bob Pittman, and this

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Speaker 1: is Math and Magics Worries from the Frontiers and Marketing,

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Speaker 1: where we dig into those two pillars of successful marketing

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Speaker 1: that are at the cornerstone of all great business successes.

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Speaker 1: We explored this essential combination from many angles. On this episode.

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Speaker 1: We're looking at building and evolving and never getting left behind.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is Bill Koenigsberg, the founder and CEO of

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Speaker 1: Horizon Media. Bill was a budding tennis star who got

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Speaker 1: sidelined by an injury and moved into advertising at an

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Speaker 1: early age and quite successfully. By his mid thirties, he

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Speaker 1: had founded Horizon Media, which grew to be the largest

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Speaker 1: independent agency in the US and an agency that leads,

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Speaker 1: not follows, the new trends, ideas and opportunities. Horizon did

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Speaker 1: not get successful by being like everyone else. Bill is

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Speaker 1: known for his drive to succeed for his clients and

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Speaker 1: his interest in making Horizon a remarkably attractive place to work.

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Speaker 1: He's wildly generous too, always helping others and embracing important causes.

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Speaker 1: He's had many honors, including induction into both the Advertising

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame and the Broadcasting and Cable Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 1: and the Best Story. Taylor Swift debuted her nine nine

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Speaker 1: album in a small performance on top of this building

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Speaker 1: with the Empire State Buildings lights synchronized her music in

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Speaker 1: the background. That's typical Bill, Bill. Welcome, Thank you, Bob,

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Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to be here. We're gonna jump into

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Speaker 1: you and sixty seconds Okay, here we go. Do you

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Speaker 1: prefer New York City or Miami, New York City, mc

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Speaker 1: and roll or Federal mac and row, Instagram or Twitter, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: call or text? Call, chocolate or Vanilla, Big Chocolate Guy,

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Speaker 1: Network or cable Cable? Cats or dogs. That's a toss up.

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Speaker 1: We have both radio or TV. Oh come on, think

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Speaker 1: about where you are right now. Got to be radio,

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Speaker 1: of course, of course, right answered, Ding, ding Ding, It's

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Speaker 1: about to get harder. Smartest person you know, Bob Pittman'

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Speaker 1: right childhood hero, Clark Kent, first job teaching tennis. Favorite

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Speaker 1: TV show, Friends, favorite TV show as a kid, The Monkeys,

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Speaker 1: all time favorite TV commercial. I love the mean Joe

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Speaker 1: Green commercial and obviously all the Geico commercials. Last Vacation, Barbados,

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Speaker 1: Secret talent, opera singer, historical idol Einstein, first concert, Grateful Dead,

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Speaker 1: greatest tennis player of all time? Rod Labor. Favorite food?

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Speaker 1: I'm a big pizza guy. What's something we might be

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Speaker 1: surprised to learn about you? Complete fear of failure? What's

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Speaker 1: something you can't live without? My friends? If you could

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Speaker 1: have one superpower, what would it be? Reading minds? I'm

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Speaker 1: reading yours right now Let's start with you pre Taylor Swift,

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Speaker 1: pre pit ball, and even pre Miami and Horizon. Let's

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Speaker 1: go all the way back to you as a kid

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Speaker 1: born the day before Christmas nineteen fifty five. You grew

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Speaker 1: up in Long Beach, Long Island, right outside of New

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Speaker 1: York City. Can you paint the picture of those times

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Speaker 1: in the world you grew up in? Born in New

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Speaker 1: York City, moved out to Long Island when I was

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Speaker 1: really young, probably three years old. I loved living in

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Speaker 1: the suburbs, lived by the beach and a beautiful suburb,

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Speaker 1: beautiful environment but also a rainbow environment. Long Beach was

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Speaker 1: a very diverse city. Understanding how to get along with

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Speaker 1: different walks of life and different people, I think carried

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Speaker 1: through with men is something that helped shape met today.

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Speaker 1: But early on I was a TV junkie, loved watching television,

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Speaker 1: loved watching commercials. And I was very fortunate because early

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Speaker 1: on in my life I kind of knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: to get involved in advertising. And very few people know

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Speaker 1: their passion early in life, and some people, by the way,

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Speaker 1: never find their passion. So for me finding it early

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Speaker 1: in life was pretty cool, And obviously that's been part

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Speaker 1: of my journey for the last forty years, where you

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Speaker 1: one of the first families to get a color TV

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Speaker 1: or one of the last one. We were probably one

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Speaker 1: of the last. My dad rarely ever repaired anything. The

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Speaker 1: shag rugs from the sixties are still in my mom's

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Speaker 1: living room, so now collector's items. By the way, we

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Speaker 1: were late adopters in terms of all new technology. I

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Speaker 1: think they just recently got rid of the rotary phones.

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Speaker 1: It still work, they do. Your dad ran a business.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that had an influence on you as

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Speaker 1: a business owner? So my dad had his own business.

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Speaker 1: He was in the home heating oil business. I think

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Speaker 1: it did have an influence on me because he always

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Speaker 1: told me that you had a lot less security when

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Speaker 1: you were working for somebody else, being in control of

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Speaker 1: your own destiny, good or bad. At least you were

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Speaker 1: in control of your own destiny. So I think that

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Speaker 1: shaped me a little bit from an entrepreneurial perspective. Do

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Speaker 1: you ever go to work with him? Early on his

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Speaker 1: facilities were up in the Bronx. He delivered home heating

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Speaker 1: to a lot of buildings in the city. My job

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Speaker 1: whenever I went to work with him when I was

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Speaker 1: nine or ten or eleven years old was to these

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Speaker 1: white index cards and customers would fill out their name

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Speaker 1: and their address and what kind of fuel are they needed?

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Speaker 1: And I remember sitting there for hours stamping these cards

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Speaker 1: pre internet, pre internet. Pretty probably Zero's copying machine too.

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Speaker 1: Talk about your first job. You mentioned it was giving

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Speaker 1: tennis lessons. Yeah. Other than early early jobs washing cars

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Speaker 1: and delivering newspapers around the neighborhood, my first real job

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Speaker 1: was managing a tennis court facility and teaching tennis. I

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Speaker 1: was about thirteen at the time. It sounds like the

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Speaker 1: right age to be a manager. Yeah, interesting enough. The

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Speaker 1: gentleman who owned the tennis courts had an older son

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Speaker 1: who unfortunately was mentally challenged. Part of my job was

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Speaker 1: to watch over him a little bit. He would book

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Speaker 1: the courts for whoever would call. So nine o'clock on

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Speaker 1: a Saturday morning, we have two courts. Fifteen people would

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Speaker 1: show up because he overbooked the courts, so I'd have

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Speaker 1: to go sort everything out. So that was an interesting

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Speaker 1: early lesson for me in conflict management. The second piece

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Speaker 1: there that I learned very early on was an advertising lesson.

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Speaker 1: There was a restaurant right down the block from the

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Speaker 1: tennis courts. I wasn't making a lot of money, and

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Speaker 1: I made a deal with the restaurant down the street

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Speaker 1: that I put signage on the tennis courts for them

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Speaker 1: in return for them giving me lunch every day. You

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Speaker 1: started the first barterhouse forget Pepper Tanner. That's correct, exactly. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did. So when did you start playing tennis and

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Speaker 1: how how did you go on that trajectory? Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: my dad was a big tennis player. He grew up

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Speaker 1: playing tennis, and I started playing tennis very early on,

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Speaker 1: when I was probably six or seven years old. It

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Speaker 1: was very competitive. I ended up winning the New York

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Speaker 1: State doubles. I trained with Harry Hoptman, with people like

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Speaker 1: John McEnroe and Eric from I went down to University

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Speaker 1: Miami with the aspirations to become a professional tennis player.

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Speaker 1: In Miami was one of the meccas of the world

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Speaker 1: back then for tennis, or Mecca for fun, Mecca for everything.

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Speaker 1: So mecca for fun, Mecca for tennis, Mecca for the beach. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was great. I did something really stupid in college.

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Speaker 1: I was late for class in my sophomore year and

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Speaker 1: in the dorm there were these stair whales and landings

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Speaker 1: and about ten steps and landings, and I decided, since

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Speaker 1: I was late for class, I could not have to

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Speaker 1: take the stairs. I could jump from one landing to

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Speaker 1: the next, and of course I landed on the side

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Speaker 1: of my ankle broke it about two places, torn ligaments.

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Speaker 1: I ended up in a wheelchair for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: You lose at least a half a step, and at

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Speaker 1: that level you just can't play competitively. So that destroyed

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Speaker 1: my tennis career. So I understand that Miami, you did

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Speaker 1: your first ad campaign and got interested in advertising, and

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Speaker 1: tell us a second, Oh my god, how do you

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Speaker 1: know that? You know you're doing a lot of great

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Speaker 1: research In the marketing major, they put together teams where

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Speaker 1: you would compete against other schools. I was part of

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Speaker 1: the team that competed for the statewide competition and the

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Speaker 1: first campaign we ever did was for the American Heart

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Speaker 1: Association and the tagline was learned to Live. We ended

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Speaker 1: up winning the competition and it was a great experience

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Speaker 1: about understanding how to pull off an advertising campaign. I also,

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Speaker 1: through that marketing group, had to do a campaign launching

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Speaker 1: a brand new product, and I still remember to this day.

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Speaker 1: The product I launched was country Star Rano La Bar.

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Speaker 1: I wrote my first jingle with actually a guy that

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Speaker 1: ended up playing with Bob Dylan. Name is J. J. Jackson.

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Speaker 1: May have heard of him. He ended up writing my

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Speaker 1: first jingle Country Country, Country Country Sarganola Bar Morning, noon

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Speaker 1: and nighttime. It's the best by far, cat. You can

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Speaker 1: take that for free. So you had this great transformation

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Speaker 1: of Miami, and you're a big supporter of University of Miami.

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Speaker 1: Something clearly changed you there. How did that school change you?

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Speaker 1: And what course did it put you on? What college

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Speaker 1: taught me and what Miami taught me was one, how

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Speaker 1: to get along socially with people. Number two, how to

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Speaker 1: think and immersing myself in the marketing area there at

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Speaker 1: the school just reinforced my passion that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go into the marketing world. The school gave me a good,

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Speaker 1: warm feeling that I could accomplish things, maybe a little

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Speaker 1: bit like you, Bob. When I'm interested in something, I

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Speaker 1: jump into the deep end of the pool and I

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Speaker 1: go all in. When I'm not, I can't give it

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Speaker 1: the time of day. So I had some really awful

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Speaker 1: grades in college, but the marketing class. I did really

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Speaker 1: well in that, and that was my passion. Everyone has

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Speaker 1: a breaking into the business story, what was yours? So

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Speaker 1: actually mine was really difficult, you know. I tried to

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Speaker 1: break in. This was in the late seventies. The idols

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Speaker 1: of the industry. The gods were j Walter Thompson and

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Speaker 1: Young and Rubican and Ogilvie and Mayther and Wells Rich

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Speaker 1: and Green and Madison Avenue and the days of Madmen.

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Speaker 1: And I remember getting out of school and I came

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Speaker 1: back to New York and I would go into the

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Speaker 1: city on Monday and I would drop my resume off

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Speaker 1: at all of these advertising agents. Is Tuesday, I would

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Speaker 1: go home and I would call up these agencies to

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Speaker 1: see if I can get an appointment and come in Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: Had come back into the city and for six months

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Speaker 1: I couldn't get a job at one of the big agencies.

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Speaker 1: In account management. They wanted you back then to have

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Speaker 1: an m b A. And I didn't go from my

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Speaker 1: m b A and creative. They wanted you to have

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Speaker 1: a portfolio and some background. I didn't have that, and

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Speaker 1: I hated math. So I didn't want to go into media,

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Speaker 1: believe or not. Hated math. So literally I couldn't get

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Speaker 1: a job. And then one day, through some connection that

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Speaker 1: I had through my sister, sister's boyfriend's brother. Now you

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Speaker 1: got it, my sister's boyfriend's brother, he was working for

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Speaker 1: one of these very early media only agencies, like a

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Speaker 1: media buying service. They even heard of them. The company

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Speaker 1: was E. L. A or ed Lee Boff at the time.

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Speaker 1: And I went in for the interview and literally they

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Speaker 1: hired me that day and wanted me to start that afternoon.

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Speaker 1: And that's what happened. Did you start that afternoon? I did,

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Speaker 1: And I figured that I get my foot in the

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Speaker 1: door and I would work for a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: proved myself, and then I go to a real agency

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Speaker 1: and get a real job. At that point in time,

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Speaker 1: media buying services were starting to take share away from

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Speaker 1: the traditional agencies and the company was growing. And as

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Speaker 1: you know, I ended up being with them for about

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Speaker 1: seven years and grew really really quickly with that company

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Speaker 1: and look out a lot of responsibility at a very

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Speaker 1: early age, as the advent of the media buying service

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Speaker 1: was starting to come into its own in the United States.

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Speaker 1: By age you were vice president director of Broadcasting, managing

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Speaker 1: a team of a hundred and fifty people. How did

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Speaker 1: you manage them? And did you learn anything from managing

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Speaker 1: older people as a kid that shaped your management style.

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Speaker 1: I was managing a lot of people older than me, also,

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Speaker 1: by the way, making a lot more money than me

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Speaker 1: and had a lot more perks than I did. But

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Speaker 1: I was thankful for the responsibility that I was given.

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Speaker 1: It was all about being authentic with them and gaining

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Speaker 1: their respect and trust. I was a quick study and

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Speaker 1: I knew what I was doing. But I was also

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Speaker 1: a team player in playing tennis growing up, doubles is

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Speaker 1: a team, but I also was on a big baseball

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Speaker 1: player if I played a lot of team sports, and

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Speaker 1: for me, it was about managing a team and we

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Speaker 1: were all in this together. Early on, I learned from

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Speaker 1: a management perspective that if you don't get everybody moving

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Speaker 1: in the same direction, I don't care how smart y are,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna foul. What did you know about media that

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Speaker 1: got you such a big job for someone your age?

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Speaker 1: Early on? Didn't know anything about media. But when I

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Speaker 1: joined the company, there was another young assistant who I

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Speaker 1: didn't like at all. He was always trying to show

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Speaker 1: how much smarter he was than everybody else. He was

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Speaker 1: always rubbing up against the senior leadership at the company,

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Speaker 1: and it really annoyed me because I knew I was

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Speaker 1: smarter than this guy, but he was getting everybody's attention

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Speaker 1: because of the way he behaved. And from my competitive

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Speaker 1: sports days, I wasn't gonna lose, so he actually, this

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Speaker 1: guy actually drove me to become better and better and better,

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Speaker 1: and it created this competition between the two of us.

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Speaker 1: Just like I was playing a tennis match. He'd like,

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Speaker 1: go a quarter of a mile. I'd go a half

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Speaker 1: a mile. He'd go a mile. I'd go two miles.

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Speaker 1: And that taught me about getting ahead and getting noticed

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Speaker 1: and really standing out. And I was gonna let this

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Speaker 1: guy beat me, stay in touch with him. Are there

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Speaker 1: any foundations of media that you've discovered way back of

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Speaker 1: them that you still use today. Yeah. The power of

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Speaker 1: audio and the power of TV works to drive Brandon

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Speaker 1: works to drive a business outcome. For years ago, people

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Speaker 1: were coming to us for positive business outcomes, and that's

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Speaker 1: the same thing they do today. And it's interesting forty

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Speaker 1: years later if you think about everything that is transpired,

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Speaker 1: But you know what, audio and TV still work even

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Speaker 1: though the advent of all the new media that's out there,

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Speaker 1: the tried and true of forty years ago is still

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Speaker 1: the tried and true today. Remember reaching frequency. It's funny

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Speaker 1: how it still works. I also think that the iagination

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Speaker 1: of the mind of what audio can do, it is

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Speaker 1: probably more important today than ever before. And I actually

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Speaker 1: think we're seeing a resurgence. I know we're seeing a

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Speaker 1: resurgence which is going to benefit all the audio players

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Speaker 1: out there. Audio is the new media and it's the future.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing it extremely extremely bright. You know that's on

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Speaker 1: what you're doing over at I Heeart as well. Well.

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Speaker 1: You know it's interesting for us. I've spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time, as you know, the TV. You know, if

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Speaker 1: I want engagement, I try and get some emotional attachment

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Speaker 1: to something. As soon as you cast it and show

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Speaker 1: a picture, you lose everybody. So sometimes their instances were

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Speaker 1: actually not having a picture allows us to have much

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Speaker 1: deeper engagement. And I know you know that, and I've

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Speaker 1: used it very well. You were doing so well back

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Speaker 1: here at the l A. Why'd you leave? It's a

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Speaker 1: fascinating story and I owe my entire success in my

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Speaker 1: career to a car. If it wasn't for a car,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be where I am today. So back then,

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Speaker 1: the Madmen days, having a company car was like the thing.

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Speaker 1: And at the right old age of nine, I was

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Speaker 1: promised a company car. All the senior executives who were

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Speaker 1: older than me had company cars. They came in one

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Speaker 1: day they said, Bill, you're getting a company car. I

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Speaker 1: went out and shopped, looked all around, found the perfect car.

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Speaker 1: It was one of the early BMW's and I went

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Speaker 1: to the president. I said, here are the paper is

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Speaker 1: gonna get him signed? I want to get my car.

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Speaker 1: And a few days went by, and then a few

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Speaker 1: weeks went by. He wasn't signing the papers. He comes

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Speaker 1: in my office one day and he says, Bill, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I can't get you the car. The guy's name was

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Speaker 1: A I said, hey, have you told me I was

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Speaker 1: getting this car. Here's a picture of the car. Here's

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Speaker 1: the leather of the car. Smell it. Here's the sample

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Speaker 1: of the keys. It's ready for me to go. He says,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The board want to prove it. I said,

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Speaker 1: the board, but you told me I was getting this.

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Speaker 1: So I was devastated. And you know, sometimes in life,

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Speaker 1: you think the really bad things happened to you, and

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Speaker 1: you don't realize in later in life that if that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, something really good would happened. Lesson. So I

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Speaker 1: get a call the next day from a headhunter and

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Speaker 1: I was never gonna leave company. And then next day

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Speaker 1: was never going to leave this company. And Hannah said,

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Speaker 1: there's a media agency that's having trouble. They want to

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Speaker 1: open up a New York office. They want to interview you.

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Speaker 1: Someone on the interview and the interview went well, and

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Speaker 1: I asked him do I get a car? They said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you do? You do get a car. I said great,

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Speaker 1: I left and I took the job and I got

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Speaker 1: the car. Now fast forward thirty years later, the guy

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Speaker 1: who renegged on the car calls me and he says, Bill,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen you in twenty years. I hear you're

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Speaker 1: doing unbelievable. You've built this amazing company. I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: ive and I out all to you. He goes, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean? I said, yeah, if this is all

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Speaker 1: because of you, he says, Bill, I knew I was

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Speaker 1: a good mentor, and I knew I told you. I said, no,

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Speaker 1: I has nothing to do with you, being a mentor

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Speaker 1: or nothing to do with you taught me. Had you

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Speaker 1: never renegged on the car, I never would have left

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Speaker 1: the company that gave me the opportunity to form Horizon.

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much for reneggating on the car.

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Speaker 1: Just hold on a second, because you've got so much

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Speaker 1: more to talk about. We'll be back after a quick break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to math and Magic. We're here with Bill Konigsberg.

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Speaker 1: You jumped to Media General. I think it was as

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Speaker 1: a senior VP. Now we get to the really good story.

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Speaker 1: In nine, Media General fought off a very tough hostel

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Speaker 1: takeover attempt and decided to unload their media services business.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you did this, but we're gonna

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Speaker 1: get into it. You convinced Media General to sell it

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Speaker 1: to you and loan you all the money to buy it.

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Speaker 1: But I think everyone listening wants to know how on

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Speaker 1: earth did you do that. Someone made a run at

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Speaker 1: the company. They're publicly held, and they fought off the

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Speaker 1: hostile takeover, and finding off the hostile takeover, they agreed

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Speaker 1: to get rid of some of their ancillary businesses. Media

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Speaker 1: General owned TV stations, newspapers, magazines, cable systems, and they

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Speaker 1: thought they can get into the other side of the business.

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Speaker 1: Coast media agencies were starting to become the flavor of

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Speaker 1: the month. Holding companies were starting to break off in

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Speaker 1: form their met agencies as well, and they actually first

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Speaker 1: wanted me to try to sell this small little agency

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Speaker 1: to one of the holding companies. And I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to do that. Remember my dad told me, don't go

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Speaker 1: work for somebody else. So I wanted to take it over,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't have any money. They made me go

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Speaker 1: the rounds and go talk to a lot of the

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Speaker 1: holding companies and I went and talk to the big

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Speaker 1: guys and some other players, and it was one player

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Speaker 1: that was very, very interested, and I knew I never

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Speaker 1: wanted to work for this guy. So I went to

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Speaker 1: them and I said, you know what, I don't think

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Speaker 1: any of these guys are the right partners. I don't

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Speaker 1: think that you're going to maximize the value of this asset,

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Speaker 1: even though it's not worth a lot right now. Let

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Speaker 1: me buy it, sell me the company. Not only will

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Speaker 1: I get you a good return on that investment, but

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Speaker 1: they had a bunch of contingent liabilities, and when they

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Speaker 1: were trying to sell to somebody else. Those other parties

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Speaker 1: didn't want to inherit those contingent liabilities, so would it

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Speaker 1: cost them money. So I said, I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: you your money back. I'm going to take care of

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Speaker 1: your contingent liabilities. Lend me the money and let me

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Speaker 1: take over this company. They went to the board a

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Speaker 1: great gentleman, but Jim Lennon, Jim convinced the board to

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Speaker 1: go ahead. He had faith in me, and I was

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Speaker 1: going to take care of these contingent liabilities. And they

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Speaker 1: loaned me eleven million dollars at an exorbitant interest rate

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Speaker 1: to buy the company back from them and give me

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Speaker 1: some working capital. And that's how I started Horizon Media.

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Speaker 1: So there are two guys affected your life. One didn't

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Speaker 1: get your car and the other soldier of the agency

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Speaker 1: for exactly so the agency it was. And of course

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Speaker 1: my timing was just perfect because the world hit a recession.

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Speaker 1: We had a really, really, really rough start. We had

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Speaker 1: clients that went belly up, didn't pay me. We were

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Speaker 1: in enormous early out of the gate financial difficulty. And

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't astute financially back then, you know the

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Speaker 1: term ignorances list. I didn't realize how much trouble I

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Speaker 1: was in. If I had known then what I know now,

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Speaker 1: I would have handed back the keys and said there's

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Speaker 1: no way we could survive. But because us I was ignorant,

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Speaker 1: I just figured out how to kind of keep the

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Speaker 1: place going. And the check had to come in today

402
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Speaker 1: to make payroll tomorrow. And the company, who I promised

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Speaker 1: I was going to get their money back to they

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00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,640
Speaker 1: were now concerned that they weren't going to get their

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Speaker 1: money back, and they had threatened to close me down,

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Speaker 1: and they wanted me to completely eliminate tons of jobs.

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Speaker 1: And I know if I had done that, there's no

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Speaker 1: way the company was going to survive. So they called

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Speaker 1: me down with an ultimatum that said, Bill, if you

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Speaker 1: don't do this, we're gonna have to call in the

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Speaker 1: loan and close you down. And I said, well, I

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Speaker 1: might as well just do this, and I took a

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Speaker 1: pair of keys out of my pocket. I went across

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Speaker 1: the table on a handed them the keys, and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: here are the keys to the company. Because you've asked

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Speaker 1: me to cut my staff and half going to close

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Speaker 1: the company down anyway, So what do you want to do.

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Speaker 1: I took a big gamble, and I didn't know whether

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Speaker 1: they were gonna accept my bluff. They handed me the

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Speaker 1: keys back and they said, Bill will give you another year.

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Speaker 1: But we got to see some traction here, and I

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00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: slowly started to turn the company around. We've never heard

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Speaker 1: that story, and I had that with m TV. Threw

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Speaker 1: Lewis came in to head up the Warner MX joint

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Speaker 1: venture which owned them TV at the time, and he'd

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Speaker 1: come from Reagan's White House and he had been in

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Speaker 1: the Transportation secretary who had fired all the air traffic controllers.

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Speaker 1: So he walks in, knows nothing about MTV, doesn't know

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Speaker 1: who Mick Jaggers, doesn't know who the rolling Stones are,

430
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 1: and he says, look, if you can't get this thing

431
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: to break even by the end of the year, was

432
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: shutting you down just a matter of fact, Bye bye,

433
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 1: so of us that year of well, I gotta cut everything.

434
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: How can I do it cheaper? I can we don

435
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: we get another advertiser. And by the way, we like

436
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 1: you survived and hit it. But it's sometimes those wake

437
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: up calls really make it work harder. Do you think

438
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: that kind of pressure it puts you under? Two save

439
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:46,479
Speaker 1: the company taught you something about clients, about managing about cost.

440
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: When you really believe in something, fight as hard as

441
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: you possibly can for it. It taught me about survival.

442
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: It taught me about how to keep employees motivated when

443
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: things were not going well. It taught me about perseverance,

444
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,919
Speaker 1: not taking no for an answer. But it also taught

445
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: me about being incredibly humble. Unless you feel the lows

446
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: of the business, you're never gonna appreciate the highs anywhere

447
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 1: near as much as you can if it comes easy

448
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: to you, and I believe that nothing comes easier. I mean,

449
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: look what you've done, at my heart, from when you

450
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: first started here, and the struggles that you went through

451
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: with the organization and the reord and how you've struggled

452
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 1: early on what you believed in what you were doing

453
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: and having that belief and being able to have people

454
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: follow you with that vision and with that belief and

455
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: earning their trust is golden. And I think those early

456
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 1: days taught me so much about survival. Let me ask

457
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: you a question. You own the business. You were the

458
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: CEO buck Stop there. Do you think that causes a

459
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: much different thought process than if you were the executive

460
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 1: ice president of something at a really big holding company.

461
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: Would you think this trained you for something that others

462
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: can't get if there only investment is a paycheck. When

463
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 1: you have no net under you, and you're the owner,

464
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: and you're the CEO of a company, and you've got

465
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: so many people relying on you, I have the responsibility

466
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: of not just employees, but their families and their kids.

467
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: You know, I feel I have the responsibility for five

468
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: to ten people being a CEO and an owner. I

469
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: think bear is an enormous, bigger responsibility because there is

470
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: no one else to blame. You can't blame the shareholders,

471
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 1: you can't blame the stock market. It's taught me about

472
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: having a responsibility to everyone. Let's talk about that as

473
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: it relates to clients. Do you think that kind of

474
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: deep level of responsibility is a competitive advantage for you

475
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: when you're talking to clients and talking about clients and

476
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: being responsible for their business. I started a company thirty

477
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: years ago. It couldn't pay anybody any money, and I

478
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: smothered them in culture and love and inspiration, built a

479
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: culture of businesses personal and that DNA has been in

480
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: my company for the past thirty years. That manifests itself

481
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: with my client relationships. I think the clients feel different.

482
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: They feel that attention, they feel that inspiration, they feel

483
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: like new clients every day. It's more about the mantra

484
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: and the ethos of how I built the company that

485
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: I think makes our client relationships so strong. They know

486
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: that the buck stops with me. I don't have to

487
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 1: go through a board, I don't have to go through committees,

488
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: I don't have to check off a dozen different boxes.

489
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: And I think I can move faster and make smarter

490
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 1: decisions because of that non publicly held position that our

491
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: company has. They're talking to the guy that makes the decision.

492
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: You feel those decisions, you feel the emotion in your actions.

493
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: That's always been my way, and I think my clients

494
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 1: feel that I am beholden only to them. I'm not

495
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: beholding the shareholders. I'm holding to my employees and I'm

496
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: holding to them. If I make my employees happy, my

497
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: it's gonna be happy. If I make my clients happy,

498
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 1: my employees are gonna be happy. And I think my

499
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: clients recognize that the air is clearer at a place

500
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: like mine, and they can see the way decisions are made.

501
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: And I think that makes a big difference that. Just recently,

502
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: we had an experience where a client called us and said, look,

503
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: here's what I want to do, and we were told

504
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: you can't do it, but my partner, Rich Brestler, says,

505
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: we can. We'll do it. We make the rules, and

506
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,239
Speaker 1: I suspect in your place, you're able to do that

507
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: on steroids. The rules don't get in the way of

508
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. And should you have a rule

509
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: which is a conflict of doing the right thing, you

510
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: just change the rule. Yeah, the rulemaking sometimes becomes quite

511
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 1: interesting and quite fun because you do have the flexibility

512
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: of doing whatever you want to do. And sometimes that

513
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: flexibility is the greatest asset in the world. And sometimes

514
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: that flexibility, believe or not, just a little bit of

515
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: a curse because why can't you do it? You got

516
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: the flexibility, you have to go anywhere. Well, because it

517
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. I suspect it encourages radical honesty

518
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: because you can't hide behind something, you can't be s

519
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: someone You really actually have to confront the truth and

520
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: have the real discussion with them. Yeah, I mean we

521
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: built the company on authenticity and sincerity. Diversity inclusion, go

522
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 1: back to the early ten years the first ten years

523
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: I was a student. I was just student in the industry.

524
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: I was taking playbooks out of my competitors what they

525
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 1: were doing right and what they were doing wrong. I

526
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: was just learning. I think the second ten was more

527
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: about starting to write my own playbook a little bit.

528
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: And I feel when now writing the book and leading

529
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: the industry, you're smaller than the big agency holding companies,

530
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 1: yet you continue to win big new clients and help

531
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: your existing clients improve the performance through media. And I

532
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: was going to ask you what your different chadeer is,

533
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: but I think you just told me that. Is there

534
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: anything you would add to that? Well, when you say

535
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: smaller than the holding companies, yes, the holding companies as

536
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: a whole their global entities, But when you break down

537
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: the pond that I compete in, which mostly is the

538
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: U S landscape. In two thousand and nineteen, we were

539
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: ranked the second largest media agency in the US among

540
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: all of the holding company media agencies. I hope that

541
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: in two thousand and twenty we're gonna be ranked number

542
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: one in the US. And when you think about the

543
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: fact that I'm competing against the giants of the industry,

544
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: that's very smart people A Little Old Horizon could end

545
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: up being ranked the largest media agency in the US.

546
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: That is a testament to my people, to our smarts,

547
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: to our dedication, to my clients, to everything that we've

548
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 1: invested back in the business. And it's about one percent

549
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: incrementality every single day. If you can make a one

550
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: percent improvement every day, you know what kind of improvement

551
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: that is After three five days, it's a pretty good improvement.

552
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: So let me ask you one more management question. You

553
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: are not only a great manager, entrepreneur, business owner, but

554
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: you're also a professional. I mean, you understand media and

555
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: media buying. You're not some manager managing those professionals. What

556
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: happens when you have one of your really great people

557
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: at one point of view and you have another, and

558
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: you've got all the votes and they've got one vote.

559
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: Maybe how do you deal with it? First of all,

560
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: I love sparring. I'm saying endearingly. I want people that

561
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: are going to make me feel uncomfortable. One of my

562
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: mantras around the agency is that I'm not feeling uncomfortable

563
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: enough these days. I am flexible, and I'm teachable, and

564
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: I am bendable. And if you ever get to a

565
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: point where you don't think you're teachable, You're in trouble.

566
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: And if you ever get to a point where you

567
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: think you arrived, you're going to get run over. And

568
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 1: I want to hire the smartest people around me who

569
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: can make me smarter and make me think differently. I

570
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: stand very strong on my opinions, and if someone is

571
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: strong enough to convince me that I'm wrong, I will

572
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: absolutely change what they have to convince you. You're not

573
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: gonna roll over and say I'm gon let you do

574
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: the wrong thing, to let you do it. And as

575
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: a leader, and you know this, Bob, sometimes because you

576
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: have such a big rear view mirror and you've seen

577
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: every single problem a lot of times, you will make

578
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: a decision just based on that experience, quickly and firmly,

579
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: before someone has an opportunity to tell you their different

580
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: point of view. And I try to be very sensitive

581
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: to that. Even though I think I know the answer

582
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: going in, you still have to open up your mind.

583
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: I was in a meeting two days ago that I

584
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: was not very happy about because someone was making me

585
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: feel very uncomfortable with what they were presenting to me.

586
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: And then I had to remember I had asked my

587
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: people to make me feel uncomfortable, and I had to say,

588
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: you know what, even though this is a surprise to me,

589
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: and even though you're asking this from me, it's making

590
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: me feel really uncomfortable. And that's what I've asked you

591
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: to do. I appreciate you doing that, and I'm going

592
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: to trust you. We talked about culture and overused word,

593
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: but in your place, I know your company and I've

594
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: walked through your space. You really do live the culture.

595
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: How do you define the culture? At Verizon, work and

596
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: outside of work are becoming intermingled together in today's seven world.

597
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: So we believe in what we call the third bucket.

598
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: Get your salary, a bunch of people get bonuses, and

599
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: we probably have over a hundred different extracurricular activities that

600
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: fall into third bucket. That's about traveling to a foreign

601
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: country and helping people who are less privileged than you are.

602
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: It's about building homes in different places. It's about a

603
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: limitless advancement program for women. It's about Upstart You and

604
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: entrepreneurial program for people who want to start their own businesses.

605
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: It's about having six or seven different diversity inclusion groups

606
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: within my organization who can meet as a community. It's

607
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: about treating our people with respect, it's about giving people

608
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: a voice, it's about giving back. We built that culture

609
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: over the last thirty years, and that culture is the

610
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: heartbeat of our company. I think people feel that employees.

611
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: Every month, I write an anniversary note to every single employee,

612
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: and that's about a commitment to our people and that

613
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: you matter as a person. Wow, that's impressive. So tell

614
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: us a little bit, because I know what relates to

615
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: your culture. About your physical space, the physical workspace you

616
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: have for those people who have not seen it, such

617
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: special space with this great outdoor rooftop. We started out

618
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: with the Taylor Swift story, but the key to it

619
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: was your unique space. Talk a little bit about how

620
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: you imagined that space and what you intended for it

621
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: to do for the company. Early on in my journey,

622
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: I was worried about survival, but I couldn't afford a

623
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: great work environment. I actually didn't think it was important,

624
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: believe it or not. In two thousand and eight and

625
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, when the world started fall apart,

626
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: my leases were coming up and I was in four

627
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: buildings in New York City, and I started to feel

628
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: that environment started to me in a hell of a

629
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: lot more to people and how people wanted to work.

630
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: From a community perspective, I could have renewed my leases

631
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: in three or four different buildings in the city. And

632
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: we decided to look around and Tribeca was not what

633
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: Tribeca is today, and we found this amazing, beautiful old building.

634
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: But then I got the price tag of what it

635
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: was going to cost to completely renovate and build the

636
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: Office of the future. It was a thirty million dollar investment,

637
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: and I decided to take the plunge. That was another

638
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: big fork in the road, and we built out offices

639
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 1: with beautiful terraces and a theater and a health center

640
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: and a big gym and a yoga studio and sleep

641
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: pods and meditation rooms and open space and I want

642
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: everybody to enjoy the view and see the sunsets and

643
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: have the light. That's the environment that we created. And

644
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, Bob had paid off tenfold

645
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: from a retention perspective, from a new business perspective, from

646
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: attracting new employees into our space to someone like Taylor

647
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: Swift wanting to do a concert up there, to film

648
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: companies left and right coming in and wanting to film

649
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 1: in our space, commercial production in our space. It was

650
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: one of the best decisions I ever made. And never

651
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: realized how big the company was because we were in

652
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: four buildings in New York City and really not so

653
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: pretty space. And one Saturday I walked in and I'm

654
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: walking around this space and I'm going, holy sh it,

655
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: look the size of this company, because we were never

656
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: all in one space. And it was an amazing epiphany

657
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: for me, and it scared me a little bit about

658
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 1: how big we had become. And the thought process all

659
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: along was to build a home, not an office, but

660
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: to build a home, and I think that's what it's become.

661
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: You really do invest in people. You invest in bringing

662
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 1: the best out in people. You run probably the best

663
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 1: summer intern program I've seen. Talk a little bit about

664
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: what the thought was behind it and what the key

665
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: elements of it are. I never had the benefit of

666
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: being part of an intern program growing up. I wanted

667
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: to build the best intern program that ever existed so

668
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: we could attract the best and the brightest back into

669
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: our company. So the philosophy was there, if you're gonna

670
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: do something, go the extra mile and build out the

671
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: best you possibly can there are probably a thousand that apply,

672
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 1: and the number gets bigger and bigger and bigger. Forty

673
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: actually make the intern program. These forty kids in college.

674
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: How many followers they have on their own social feeds

675
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: to these days? If ozans of followers. So the first

676
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: person I asked when I go into the room and

677
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: I talked to them beginning this summer, and I say

678
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: how many people am I talking to? And they call

679
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: around the room out there's fortio. No no, no, no,

680
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: no no, I'm not talking to forty people. I'm talking

681
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: to thirty thousand people. Because of all of your connections

682
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: and all of your social influence, and if you have

683
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: a good experience here, you're gonna tell everybody about it,

684
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: and they're gonna tell people about it. So to me,

685
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: it's about the multiplier effect of understanding the impact you

686
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: have on one individual and the impact that that can

687
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: have in the multiple other individuals that that person is

688
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: connected to. So let me talk about me. DA data

689
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: came along, Digital came along. I was at a o

690
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: L in the nineties when we've sort of introduced to

691
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: all this, it's gone to crazy extent of the data

692
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: we now available on the customers and attached the media.

693
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: Most people sort of looked at it as a silo. Okay,

694
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 1: and there's radio and TV, and then there's a digital

695
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: and data. You're one of the first people to say,

696
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I know radio and TV are effective,

697
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: that data actually is going to change how I use them.

698
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: How did you come about that sort of thought process

699
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: of doing it a little differently? Thirty years ago I

700
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: started the company, clients came to me for positive business outcomes,

701
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: and today that's the same thing. The differences is today

702
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: we can prove positive business outcomes by the use of data.

703
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: When you think about the consumer journey, every brand, every

704
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: category has a different type of consumer journey. Data is

705
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: leading us every step of the way in terms of

706
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: how we interact, where we interact, the type of interaction,

707
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 1: the type of content that needs to be produced. Data

708
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: is at the epicenter of what we do. It informs

709
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: every decision we make, and now it's all interconnected. And

710
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: you don't own a data company. We don't. We believe

711
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: that you can rent an enormous amount of data today

712
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: as opposed to being beholden by owning your own data.

713
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: A day to solutions group that is taking in data

714
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: from dozens of different platforms. TransUnion is one of them

715
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: that has a database of over three hundred million individual

716
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: I d s. So we're a big believer in the

717
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: democracy of data and taking in data solution inputs from

718
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: dozens of different places to help us inform the decisions

719
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: that we have to make. Data at behalf of our clients.

720
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: I want to talk a second about you. You have

721
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: used your brains, power, connections, finances to help others that

722
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: you have shared the Fora's helping the industry. You've helped

723
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: university remind me a lot of helping kids who might

724
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: like to be like you. City Harvest Center on Addiction,

725
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: the Rise and Back Foundation role boards you sit on,

726
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: and indeed, a few years back at Week and their

727
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: Profile of the Givers listed you as one of the

728
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: top ten from the world of media, marketing, entertainment. What's

729
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: your philosophy on that giving back is part of life

730
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: and we teach it early on at our company. We

731
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: have her Rise and give Us Back where people can

732
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: get involved in dozens of different philanthropic causes that are

733
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: near and dear to them. I've built my company on

734
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: brand purpose and now many companies are leaning into brand purpose.

735
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: I also feel that I'm so blessed to have grown

736
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: up in this industry in terms of what I've been

737
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: able to create. That you always have to give back,

738
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: and that's been in my d N A early on

739
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: so many causes that I'm involved in the City of Harvest,

740
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: feeding the less fortunate here in New York City, Centers

741
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: for Addiction in terms of the ridiculous opioid crisis we

742
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: have in this country today and what's that doing to

743
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: the future generation? Two dozens of other charities that we

744
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: support and pro bone a work that we handle, including

745
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: organizations like the Michael J. Fox Foundation, And I go

746
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: to sleep at night every single night knowing that I'm

747
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: helping a lot of people less fortunate, and I want

748
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: everybody in my company to think that way as well,

749
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: and if they don't, they are not at the right company.

750
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: Let's lose some advice here before we leave. What advice

751
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: would you give to somebody more to get into advertising?

752
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: Call me, what advice would you give to your twenty

753
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: one year old self if you could make sure that

754
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: you enjoy the passage of time. That was actually a

755
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: line into James Teller's song He said, the secret to

756
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: life is enjoying the passage of time. In those early days,

757
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: I sacrificed a lot to build what I built, and

758
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people ask me sometimes with the sacrifice

759
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: worth it? And I still come to the same conclusion

760
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: that I think it was. But I think I missed

761
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: out a lot. So what you're saying is if you'd

762
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: known you were going to be successful, you wouldn't have

763
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: worked so hard. That's absolutely correct. Here's the hard one.

764
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to other agencies? You know,

765
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: we have a problem right now in this industry, Bob.

766
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: There's a problem with diversity. There's a problem with bringing

767
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: talent into our industry. I kind of feel like it's

768
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: ground Hugs day. There's a problem, I don't think with

769
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: my company, but with client trust in the industry. There's

770
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: a problem with the way the dynamics of the industry

771
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 1: are working. From a financial perspective, we need to continue

772
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: to prove our value to marketers as an industry. We

773
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: need to bring the best and the brightest into this industry,

774
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: and I think that is one of the biggest possible

775
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: pitfalls that we are facing as an industry. We can't

776
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: lose out to Facebook and Google and Amazon and those

777
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: other players. We need to have the best talent, So

778
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: as we wrap up, we always give a shout out

779
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: to the best and math and magic, to those from

780
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: the analytical side and from those that are wildly creative.

781
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: The showman of the business. Who gets your shout out

782
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 1: as the greatest math person, the greatest math person? Oh

783
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: my god, that analytical thinker. I gotta come back down

784
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: that one, Bob. That's a tough one. It will give

785
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: you a buy on that one by now. And how

786
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: about the person well on the magic person put personality

787
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 1: aside from an inventive perspective, Steve Jobs. He's gotten it

788
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: a couple of times already. Bill, you are an inspiration

789
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: to all of us in marketing and advertising. Thanks for

790
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: being here today. I love Thank you, Bob. Here's a

791
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: few things I've picked up in my conversation with Bill. One,

792
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 1: don't back down when you know what's right for your

793
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: company's future. When Bill's financiers wanted him to fire half

794
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: his staff, he stood his ground and ultimately came out

795
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: on top. Two. Being the owner and CEO allows you

796
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: to make decisions quickly and efficiently, but it also means

797
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: you have to invite your employees to challenge you so

798
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: you don't get tunnel vision three. Physical space can not

799
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: only define your workplace culture, it can determine your business future.

800
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: When Bill made a big investment in new offices, his

801
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: company thrived. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it

802
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to Math

803
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This show

804
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger

805
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent. Just no small feat.

806
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: Nikki Eatre for pulling research Bill plaques, and Michael Asar

807
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: for their recording helped our editor Ryan Murdoch, of course,

808
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango, and everyone who helped

809
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: bring this show to your ears. Until next time,