Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Pete Buddh Judge, and this is the deciding decade.
Speaker 1: As someone who became very politically engaged in college, I've
Speaker 1: been thinking about how different it might be for young
Speaker 1: people growing up in the Trump era who were interested
Speaker 1: in civic engagement. I think about my own experience during
Speaker 1: the Bush era. It didn't feel like the world was
Speaker 1: on fire in the same way it does today, but
Speaker 1: at the time I did viscerally feel what was going
Speaker 1: on with our international relations, are economy, and worried about
Speaker 1: what our future would look like. What does it look
Speaker 1: like today for young people who are watching the profound
Speaker 1: dysfunction in our highest office. I'm particularly curious about what
Speaker 1: the landscape looks like to those who have participated in
Speaker 1: or been shaped by the enormous wave of protests and
Speaker 1: grassroots activism that's taken place over the last few months.
Speaker 1: Does that push them towards or away from government? Or
Speaker 1: do they think about it in a different way? Hireland
Speaker 1: Today is the second of our sub series of brief
Speaker 1: episodes where we are featuring young next generation leaders who
Speaker 1: are not only going to play key roles in shaping
Speaker 1: the decade ahead, but already making a big impact through
Speaker 1: their activism today. Reneo Tero was featured in Boys State,
Speaker 1: a documentary that follows the Texas teenagers who attend the
Speaker 1: American Legions annual Boys State Conference, a program that teaches
Speaker 1: young men about government through a week long simulation of
Speaker 1: electoral politics. It was filmed in two thousand eighteen, when
Speaker 1: Renee was in high school, and it's worth noting that
Speaker 1: a year later, nineteen, he placed first in extemporaneous speaking
Speaker 1: at the National Speech and Debate Association's National Tournament, becoming
Speaker 1: his school district's first national champion and the first African
Speaker 1: American to win the title. And the speech that got
Speaker 1: him that title was entitled should political leaders focus first
Speaker 1: on political empowerment or economic equality? Which is one of
Speaker 1: the things I'm looking forward to talking to him about.
Speaker 1: Renee is now a student at the University of Texas Austin,
Speaker 1: where he has double majoring in International relations and Black Studies.
Speaker 1: He's an undergraduate research fellow at UT Center for the
Speaker 1: Study of Racing Democracy and on UT Speech Team. Really
Speaker 1: great to see you and thanks for taking time to
Speaker 1: get together. Thank you so much. So, you know, like
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans, I got to know you through
Speaker 1: this film Boy State, which follows you and in a
Speaker 1: number of other young men through this this leadership program
Speaker 1: in Texas, and you stand out from the beginning. And
Speaker 1: one of the reasons you stand out is you're clearly
Speaker 1: different from a lot of the people around you, and
Speaker 1: you own that and you live into that. But that
Speaker 1: also makes it complicated. Can you just talk about what
Speaker 1: it felt like? You're in this world of students from
Speaker 1: all over Texas, pretty conservative group, overwhelmingly white group. You
Speaker 1: wouldn't be there if you were not a talented, ambitious
Speaker 1: young man. What was going through your mind as you
Speaker 1: first started getting to know the people who are going
Speaker 1: to be your peers for that week. Well, I will
Speaker 1: say that everything about the entire experience was just a
Speaker 1: pleasant little surprise for me because I didn't do any
Speaker 1: research at idea what was going on. I guess my
Speaker 1: initial feelings were, of course, very anxious. Uh My mother
Speaker 1: was very much, so vocal about the fact that I
Speaker 1: was different and that they could possibly lead to some complications.
Speaker 1: And I was a d percent prepare just you know,
Speaker 1: shut up and you stick it throughout the entire week.
Speaker 1: But I think it was by the time that I
Speaker 1: realized that, you know, I couldn't couldn't stand to hear
Speaker 1: somebody lies in the speeches, and um, there was a
Speaker 1: camera that that kind of emboldened me to take the
Speaker 1: step that I did to realize that, okay, cool, this
Speaker 1: difference makes me, uh stand out, but now it's a
Speaker 1: perfect opportunity for me to weaponize it. And what did
Speaker 1: that mean in you're okay, So what do you mean
Speaker 1: to weaponize your difference? And who are you weaponizing it against?
Speaker 1: And who you're weaponizing it for the best part about
Speaker 1: difference is that you stick out like a sore thoumb
Speaker 1: You're going to draw attention to you either way. So
Speaker 1: you just depends on how you're going to draw that
Speaker 1: attention to yourself. I always find that being a black
Speaker 1: and queer person that you know, they always are gonna
Speaker 1: watch you twice as hard, which means that they're listening
Speaker 1: to what you're saying regardless. And so I get I
Speaker 1: delivered a speech that was very true to my heart,
Speaker 1: and I tried to I tried to weaponize my difference
Speaker 1: in the sense that I argue for by pars and ship,
Speaker 1: I argue for this desire to you know, follow the
Speaker 1: other side, using kind of what they didn't expect out
Speaker 1: of me to get the rise out of the audience.
Speaker 1: Interesting and you can see, I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: things that makes the film so dynamic is watching you
Speaker 1: have this effect on your audience. I can see in
Speaker 1: your eyes that you're realizing the effect that your power
Speaker 1: is having on you write your ability to guide an
Speaker 1: audience to a certain place. I'm wondering what you take
Speaker 1: from that experience, you know, I'm almost thinking of some
Speaker 1: of these like a sci fi plot where somebody lives,
Speaker 1: you know, a decade and an alternate reality, and then
Speaker 1: they come right back to where they were, right Like,
Speaker 1: all of this plays out over the course of a week,
Speaker 1: this dramatic set of experiences. You become the state party chair,
Speaker 1: which is a very important role in this simulation. I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you, I'm watching you and your peers that
Speaker 1: I feel is invested and you're simulated elections as I
Speaker 1: did in real ones that I've been involved in, and
Speaker 1: then a week later you back to your life. Did
Speaker 1: it change you? Absolutely? Um? I walked into boys State
Speaker 1: wanted to be a senator. I thought that was the
Speaker 1: perfect you know, retirement plan. You know, I didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: have to go to school for a particular thing. Um.
Speaker 1: And I hear the pension is great, um. And so
Speaker 1: that was kind of what was motivating me when I
Speaker 1: went to Boys State and I actually ran for the Senate.
Speaker 1: I lost my very first few elections, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of where I ended up in the position where I
Speaker 1: was doing state party chair, and my entire plans changed.
Speaker 1: My view of politics changed because I prepared to engage
Speaker 1: it from Congress. Now I was dealing with the nitty
Speaker 1: gritty electoral stuff. It was kind of humbling experience. I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed the fact that I was responsible for so much,
Speaker 1: but it also made me realize what that power could do.
Speaker 1: There's a whole bunch of seventeen year old boys, and
Speaker 1: I saw them replicate some of the same dirty electoral
Speaker 1: and racist tactics that we have seen play out on
Speaker 1: the screen for years. I mean, why wouldn't they the
Speaker 1: seventeen they haven't had any other political experience, But now
Speaker 1: that politics is frame from outside of this realm of respectability,
Speaker 1: to this um one on one mud slinging show, they
Speaker 1: were able to reproduce that, and I realized that is
Speaker 1: the inevitable future I was going to face in politics.
Speaker 1: So I had to find a way to engage politics
Speaker 1: from a third party perspective, something separate from electoral politics,
Speaker 1: but away that I could still act on my passion.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of people, especially people are
Speaker 1: involved in politics, who see a leader of your capacity
Speaker 1: emerging and being shaped, hope very much that you would
Speaker 1: run for office. But you're saying no, that you walked
Speaker 1: away with out of this program which is designed to
Speaker 1: make you want to be more involved in politics. Right?
Speaker 1: Can you walk us through that distinction? What's the difference
Speaker 1: between walking away from the world walking away from involvement,
Speaker 1: which I think it sounds like you're not doing. But
Speaker 1: how can how can you walk away from a political
Speaker 1: process that's such an important part of how the world
Speaker 1: is shaped? You know? For one, I think we do
Speaker 1: this unfair thing where reframe civic engagement through just getting
Speaker 1: out to the polls politics, and that completely ignores another
Speaker 1: very important part of the functioning system. I call it
Speaker 1: the knowledge gap, because you can't ask me to advocate
Speaker 1: for people to get out to the polls when we
Speaker 1: have long waiting lines. Are you're asking me to tell
Speaker 1: the single mother of multiple children, that she shouldn't work
Speaker 1: and that she shouldn't be voting and that she's wrong
Speaker 1: for not doing so. And that was something that I
Speaker 1: was trying to, you know, conflict I was trying to
Speaker 1: I was trying to understand. I was like, did I
Speaker 1: have to stay within this voting realm? And so for me,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what it would look like to be
Speaker 1: involved without engaging in electoral politics until about a few
Speaker 1: months ago. I've been engaging with protests, you know, and actively.
Speaker 1: I've seen that protest turnover to some resolutions within our
Speaker 1: city to defund the police, a necessary step. So for me,
Speaker 1: I feel like involvement now is taking a look at
Speaker 1: the system, understanding what is fundamentally flawed with it, and
Speaker 1: then protesting, engaging in some form of civic responsibility because
Speaker 1: now you have the responsibility and the power to fix it.
Speaker 1: But how do you get that power if it's not
Speaker 1: through the polls? Well, what's your kind of theory of change?
Speaker 1: My theory of change right now is uh, I guess
Speaker 1: shock at all when these demonstrations for major change is
Speaker 1: happening every single time, you know, we're telling you what
Speaker 1: needs to happen. And so I'm just trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what kind of demonstrations are visceral enough for the
Speaker 1: public to recognize that. H So you're an undergraduate. I'm
Speaker 1: teaching undergraduates right now for the first time, and it
Speaker 1: is fascinating for me, although it entails something I don't
Speaker 1: like doing, which is acknowledging that I'm no longer the
Speaker 1: same generation as college students. But there's almost exactly twenty
Speaker 1: years between me and you and most of the students
Speaker 1: that I encounter. And so I think back to when
Speaker 1: I was in college, and at the time, especially pre
Speaker 1: nine eleven, the dominant mood for my generation of young people,
Speaker 1: I think was irony. We we built up irony as
Speaker 1: a kind of defense because if you seem totally sincere
Speaker 1: and committed to anything, whether it was a political agenda
Speaker 1: or just a belief or an idea, it made you
Speaker 1: vulnerable to being made fun of or to being disappointed,
Speaker 1: and so people developed these layers of irony. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: just also part of being young. But what I sense
Speaker 1: in your generation of students is that there's a kind
Speaker 1: of earnestness compared to when I was a student, and
Speaker 1: also at the same time, a kind of cynicism, And
Speaker 1: you write in this very powerful New York Times op
Speaker 1: ed about your experience, you describe yourself as as cynical
Speaker 1: in many ways. You said, I've own increasingly cynical about
Speaker 1: this system itself. And yet what you're describing is definitely
Speaker 1: not walking away from from everything. So how do you
Speaker 1: make sure the cynicism doesn't mean just giving up on
Speaker 1: the systems that that clearly need to change and won't
Speaker 1: change on their own. I will that feelings say that
Speaker 1: our generation is more cynical and definitely much more earnest
Speaker 1: because we're now inheriting a country at a very strange time.
Speaker 1: We are not like previous generations where we have twenty
Speaker 1: forty years before behind us that allows us to understand
Speaker 1: that this system, you know, could work for us. We
Speaker 1: don't have that. We've only seen failure. Additionally, I do
Speaker 1: believe that my cynicism is what fuels me, and I
Speaker 1: think it's because we have a toxic view of the
Speaker 1: word cynic. We believe that cynic stops just in the
Speaker 1: thought space. I think negatively about something, so I'm going
Speaker 1: to do nothing about it. That's completely wrong. You just
Speaker 1: need to have I guess enough criticism built up within
Speaker 1: you to realize that's what's going to motivate me to
Speaker 1: actually makes them real change. And so I kind of
Speaker 1: see this thing where we believe that patriotism and cynicism
Speaker 1: have to be devoid from one another. But if you
Speaker 1: know that this great thing that you love so much has,
Speaker 1: you know, a fatal flaw, wouldn't you raise a stink
Speaker 1: enough to make people want to fix it. So cynicism
Speaker 1: is nothing to be scared at all. Interesting, It's just
Speaker 1: a very natural first step to the consciousness of the public.
Speaker 1: So now this makes me curious about what you mean
Speaker 1: when you say patriotism. It sounds like you're not talking
Speaker 1: about nationalism. You're talking about something you might identify with,
Speaker 1: even though you're very clear eyed about the weaknesses and
Speaker 1: the flaws of the system. So what does it mean
Speaker 1: to you to be patriotic? Oh, to be a patriot
Speaker 1: means to love the country, and with love comes accountability.
Speaker 1: Patriotism was reframed after nine eleven to being that the
Speaker 1: United States is some actor that isn't culpable for any
Speaker 1: of its actions because it's always actively defending us. But
Speaker 1: with that kind of toxic mentality. You never understand the
Speaker 1: ways that America can hurt people, and therefore we kind
Speaker 1: of get stuck up in our own enamored relationship with
Speaker 1: this country that we don't wish to see it any better.
Speaker 1: Patriotism also requires civic engagement and people over country. For
Speaker 1: you to love something so much but never act upon
Speaker 1: that love makes me wonder is that actual love. It's
Speaker 1: kind of like what my mama always said. If it's not,
Speaker 1: love is lust, and patriotism is like a lust for
Speaker 1: this country, and cynicism is a love for it. So
Speaker 1: how hopeful are you about the possibility of people to change?
Speaker 1: This isn't just about beating people, but there's also some
Speaker 1: folks you're never going to reach. I think about this
Speaker 1: when I go on Fox News rightly, So, so, how
Speaker 1: do your debat or right? And part of debate is
Speaker 1: about winning, but part of real debate it's about persuasion.
Speaker 1: How do you square that in your account of where
Speaker 1: we're heading? So I think the best way I think
Speaker 1: that I can incorporate this idea where you know, people
Speaker 1: who aren't necessarily as progressive existing in a space where
Speaker 1: we desperately need some major change, because like we have
Speaker 1: to remember that people change and it's up to the
Speaker 1: institution to react and in order to do that. I
Speaker 1: think elections, if for this one, is like pretty interesting
Speaker 1: because it's kind of like this idea that we are
Speaker 1: choosing who we want to pressure, and an election allows
Speaker 1: for the democratic process for everyone to first have that opinion.
Speaker 1: And then when you allow the pressure to uh to
Speaker 1: enter in for you know, necessary change, um like abolished
Speaker 1: eyes or to protect black and brown bodies in the
Speaker 1: streets from police executions, is when we start to see
Speaker 1: the special interests of the community play through. And it's
Speaker 1: kind of this this concept of the beloved community. You're right,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not so much about defeating one another or
Speaker 1: reaching one another, but rather protecting and nurturing your ideology.
Speaker 1: I believe that it's up to communities of color, where
Speaker 1: they oftentimes you know, are having are being gaslighted about
Speaker 1: the situation that they are in. It is up to
Speaker 1: them to you know, advocate into and too and have
Speaker 1: a voice. In doing so, they are creating community connections
Speaker 1: within one another, which ultimately is just better for the
Speaker 1: future of the advocacy of that space. And then they're
Speaker 1: also humanizing the struggle and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of this idea of what we need to
Speaker 1: change and what we need to fix, we keep so
Speaker 1: much in this abstract thought space that we forget that
Speaker 1: there's a very human need for it at the end
Speaker 1: of the day. So ultimately we just need to amplify
Speaker 1: the fact that there's a human need for it. So
Speaker 1: what's going on with your peers? I mean, do you
Speaker 1: do feel like your generation is going to be more
Speaker 1: active or do you feel like I know, I always
Speaker 1: felt like I was kind of a minority in terms
Speaker 1: of interest in politics and public affairs and civic things.
Speaker 1: It wasn't exactly cool. Your generation seems to be kind
Speaker 1: of more active and engaged, But maybe that's from the
Speaker 1: outside looking in. How would you describe it, and how
Speaker 1: does it feel on campus and with people you spend
Speaker 1: time with. Maybe you're right, maybe it's just on the
Speaker 1: outside looking get. I think the brilliant thing about social
Speaker 1: media is that it connects so many of us to
Speaker 1: have very important conversations and discourse. But oftentimes social media
Speaker 1: looks like a final resting round for a lot of folks. Activism,
Speaker 1: you know, performative stuff Like I was very upset a
Speaker 1: few months ago when the Blackout Tuesday, and I saw
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people like do it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, you realized the whole point of Blackout Tuesday
Speaker 1: was to clog the feed so there wasn't any information
Speaker 1: about Black Lives matter. But you have your head so
Speaker 1: wrapped up, and what can I do performatively? You don't
Speaker 1: think completely through your actions. So what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: with my peers, I do feel as if there's a
Speaker 1: major sense of engagement. However, I do not think they're
Speaker 1: listening to the right voices because the Internet creates such
Speaker 1: a fantastic echo chamber because if you spoken to one
Speaker 1: black person, we would have told you why you should
Speaker 1: have not engaged in the Blackout Tuesday post. So so
Speaker 1: in that let's take up the topic of well intentioned
Speaker 1: white progressive because you know, I think part of what's
Speaker 1: given the people a lot of hope in especially the
Speaker 1: response to the murder of George Floyd, is that this
Speaker 1: has been a very multi racial response and awakening. But
Speaker 1: of course the experience of this activism is radically different
Speaker 1: if you're actually black or a person of color, then
Speaker 1: if you're a white American trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: to be an ally how do you kind of resolve
Speaker 1: or navigate these tensions among your own peers. It's it's
Speaker 1: it really just feels like the main disconnect between you know,
Speaker 1: everyone is just the knowledge gap is that the violence
Speaker 1: and oppression that people experience is very much so preferential
Speaker 1: and like to the individual right, like the experience of
Speaker 1: queer folks is not going to be the experience of
Speaker 1: black folks, especially black queer folks. Again, you may understand that,
Speaker 1: like we all live and leave leave different lives, but
Speaker 1: I don't think people genuinely internalize that. You genuinely cannot
Speaker 1: understand why I face the things I do and how
Speaker 1: I feel about the things that I do in my
Speaker 1: perception about that. And I think that is of such
Speaker 1: a major um step is just internalizing that difference, also
Speaker 1: having real empathy for um, you know, the communities. Is
Speaker 1: it because you don't believe us when we are talking
Speaker 1: about how to solve our oppression. Is it because there's
Speaker 1: something about me that isn't you know, convincing is or
Speaker 1: is it because you're trying to preserve your comfort? Either way,
Speaker 1: those are your three choices. The only way that I
Speaker 1: think you're acting on empathy is when we begin to
Speaker 1: see true change. The other thing I really want to
Speaker 1: ask you about is your perspective on what success looks
Speaker 1: like in the medium term. Like this decade is clearly
Speaker 1: going to decide so much for our country. So a
Speaker 1: decade from now, you're approaching the age of thirty and
Speaker 1: we're looking back on the ties. What would have to
Speaker 1: happen for us to be able to say that the
Speaker 1: ties got us toward where our country needs to go,
Speaker 1: and what would be the work remaining to be done.
Speaker 1: I think the one tangible marker I think of success
Speaker 1: for is that we've abolished a two party system and
Speaker 1: it made it impossible the campaign under a binary well
Speaker 1: and replaced it with lud maybe parliamentary system. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, require coalitions because we got to start
Speaker 1: reminding like he's not like about this election. Guess this
Speaker 1: election stocks it feels really bad right now, but this
Speaker 1: is a great opportunity for us to remind our politicians
Speaker 1: that they have to earn our vote again. And because
Speaker 1: if we have coal missions and if we are electing
Speaker 1: representatives to then grant our head of state the power
Speaker 1: it's a clear reminder that we are putting you in
Speaker 1: this job. Wait, just like Marvin Gay's dad, I brought
Speaker 1: you into this world and I can take you out.
Speaker 1: I get how difficult it is to expect optimism from
Speaker 1: a generation that has grown up with some of the
Speaker 1: greatest struggles in our modern history. The post nine eleven Wars,
Speaker 1: the two tho eight crash and its aftermath, the Trump presidency,
Speaker 1: climate change, you name it. I remember the sense of
Speaker 1: hope that came for so many my age with the
Speaker 1: two thousand election and President Obama, and then the dramatic
Speaker 1: gains and setbacks that followed. But Renee speaks for many
Speaker 1: his age who reached voting age during the Trump era
Speaker 1: and feel that they have seen only failure from policymakers
Speaker 1: in charge of trying to make their lives better. I'm
Speaker 1: glad to see that for someone like Renee, naive optimism
Speaker 1: is out of the question, but so is dison agement.
Speaker 1: And I'm glad to see his generation insisting on being heard.
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