WEBVTT - Why Kate Bush’s “Running Up That Hill” Is a Timeless Synth-Goth Anthem 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.760 Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:08.360 Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:09.280 Spanis and. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.680 I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.320 greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:20.120 And this week's song a classic we both love Running 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.320 Up That Hill by Kate Bush. 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:24.760 So this song made its debut on the twenty twenty 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.080 one list, became in at number sixty, which is like 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.040 a massive debut for the song, and I mean, I 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.560 think there's so so many reasons we can get into 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.239 and again, this song making on the list came a 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.120 full year before end up charting again and went to 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:40.800 number one in the UK and a bunch of other 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.200 countries around the world, and number three in the US. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.120 We could start with the fact that even a year 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.800 before we kind of saw this resurgence, the song was 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.919 already kind of for voters of this list in their 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.360 consciousness as one of the greatest songs of all time. So, Rob, 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:56.960 what do you think was sort of leading up to 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.440 that voting that was kind of inspiring people to reconsider 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:02.840 Running Up That Hill as like one of the greatest songs. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.199 Kate Bush like an artist, certainly an artist never chased 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.080 after conventional pop fame at the time, Yet her mystique 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.520 just grows and grows. Artists just take more and more 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.400 inspiration from her. Running Up That Hill was already a 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.080 huge thing on social media, like long before it blew 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.640 up on Stranger Things. It was just one of those 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:25.720 songs where the mystique just builds and just keeps making 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:27.679 new believers wherever it goes. 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.160 What do you remember, Like your reaction to hearing Kate 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.080 Bush for the first time was like what made her 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.120 stand out to you? And or maybe you made you 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:38.399 fall in love with her music right away. 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:43.520 She was so wild, imaginative. She had that bowie thing 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.360 that I really loved. She was huge in the early 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.360 eighties when she was first making synthesizer stuff after being 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.600 very piano based in the seventies, so she seemed like 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:56.400 a new wave artist, but she also had this progue past, 0:01:56.840 --> 0:01:59.200 and she had all these weird like folk music elements, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.360 and she just made the weirdest damn records. And the 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.360 way you could tell that she was really schooled in 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:08.519 that sort of seventies British glam rock. Obviously very Bowie, 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.520 obviously very Roxy music, very very very Elton. She did 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:14.679 the best Elton cover of all time with her version 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.440 of rocket Man, where she's just seeing I'm not the 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.440 man they think I am an I mean, it's like, Wow, no, Kate, 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.920 you are not. You're not like you are not what 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:26.679 anybody thinks. She was just so deeply versed in the 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.160 music she loves, but so original in every move she makes. 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:35.079 Yeah, and just like there's so much theatricality to not 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.520 only her performances of course, and like the way that 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:39.840 she presents it, because she is someone who is very 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.040 conceptual with how she envisions her performances, her videos and 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.320 how they kind of are translating in the songs, Like 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.919 she has like this really great kind of artistic mind 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.120 in so many ways. But like the songs too, are 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.520 such great narratives of course, Like Wearing Up that Hill 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.079 is this amazing sort of song about like a man 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:58.640 and woman and kind of wanting to be able to 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.639 like understand each other better and like make that deal 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.080 with God and like understand kind of the other person's 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.760 perspective inside, and like there's just like so much of 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.280 this drama to the song that comes through both in 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.680 the production. Of course, she is from Hounds of Love 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:14.720 in nineteen eighty five. She produced the album herself, Like 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.760 she wrote this song by It's just just Kate, you know, 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.680 and like she's kind of has this incredibly just like 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.760 theatrical kind of vision of every narrative in her songs. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.200 It's amazing. How did this song hit you as a 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.600 teenage fan who was just like discovering her music. 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:34.120 Yeah, I was so obsessed with this song, but I 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.640 remember I owned it pretty early, and like I just 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.440 I was like absolutely transfixed by It's like such a 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.600 hypnotic song. I won't totally realize I've had it on 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:43.960 for as long as I've had it on, you know, 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:45.920 if I just kind of like let it play. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:46.600 Same thing with the. 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.600 Full album, Like I feel like that album is constantly 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.320 on repeat. But with Running at That Hill especially, like 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:54.440 and I'm not paying attention and I put just that 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:59.040 song on two hours go by, and I'm like still here, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.600 maybe to it one more time. There is such like 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:04.840 just the way the production is so driving and kind 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:08.560 of really gives you that sense of urgency that she's 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.480 singing about. And it's kind of like desperation, and like 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.520 just the way that she's singing it, Like I don't know, 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:17.480 there's like so much like weird like vocal inflections that 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.320 she does, especially when she sings like made a deal 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:21.919 with God and like you know, like just like the 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:23.560 way it kind of goes a little bit lower and 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.520 like a little like I don't know, She's just like 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.200 does all these weird things with her voice that you 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:28.680 always kind of unlock each time. 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:30.640 What's a song you can listen to your whole life 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.599 without figuring it out? Yeah, there's so much, Like you said, 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.400 there's so much mystery and enigma in it. And it's 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.960 weld that this is her most famous song. It's it's 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.120 her pop song. It's the one that actually was a 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.280 top forty hit in the US. Just kind of mind blowing, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.400 let alone that it was a top forty hit. Then 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.880 almost forty years later, this is Kate Bush at her 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.719 most accessible, straight down the middle pop and it's still 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:54.839 so insanely weird. 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.000 Yeah, And it's one of my favorite songs to see 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.640 people karaoke because every time I've seen friends before Stranger's 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:02.520 perform and I feel like they always do something like 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:04.960 really fun vocally with it, like they all kind of 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.200 everyone sort of has like some weird intonation of the song. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.960 They really love the way that she sings a certain 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.440 word and always try to mimic it, like it's it's 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.240 kind of like that like kind of way like Shallow 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:16.960 by Late Gaga, Like everyone kind of has like a 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.039 one note that they love that they really need to 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.120 hit every time they do it. So I've always really 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:27.400 loved that about this song. And I mean with the 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.240 resurgences that we've seen with this particular song, I mean 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.279 there's so many I mean, Kate Bush's discography is so 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.839 incredible and we've seen it have such an influence on 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:38.240 so many artists, And there are so many songs that 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.160 have had great covers. Of course the Maxwell cover of 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.560 this woman's work, and you know, there's just like so 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.080 many incredible versions of her music over the years. But 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.200 for some reason, people keep coming back to this song 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.760 in particular. What do you think it is about raining 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.919 up that hill that keeps drawing new generations in or 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.400 finding new ways of being used in media. 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.400 Well, it's such a expand song. It is such a 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.200 rhythmic song. It's the one that you could pick it 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:05.800 out that if there was a song on Hounds of 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:07.480 Love that was going to be a top forty hit, 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.520 it would be this one. And yet everybody, like you said, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.440 everybody hears something different in it, Like everybody karaoke is 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.960 a different intonation in it. It means something different to everyone. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.720 It's a constant enigma. I heard it Halloween at like 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:25.040 four in the morning in a sleazy goth club in 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.520 San Francisco, the Cat Club, and it was like on 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.000 the floor, and it was like really funny to hear 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.960 it in that context. Yet everybody is like communing to 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.560 this like deeply weird song from forty years ago, and 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.280 it fits anywhere you hear it. Yeah, something I was 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.599 wondering what your thoughts about. But it seems like the 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.719 Kate Bush resurgence that you were talking about of recent 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:53.320 years kind of simultaneous with the Stevie Nicks. You can't 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.359 call it resurgence because she never went away, but the 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:00.560 really like huge boom in the Stevie Nicks steep, especially 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:04.039 among younger people hearing her for the first time. I 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.400 wonder how connected they are, because they certainly have a 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.920 lot in common as artists and in terms of their sensibilities. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.200 They both have such and it's the same thing that 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.880 we talked about like the Stevie and Dreams episode, is 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.640 that they just have really distinct senses of self and 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.520 style in terms of how they present themselves that is 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.480 like so emblematic of a certain style of music a 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.360 certain era, but also doesn't feel tied to that era. 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.120 There's that same timelessness with Kate's presentation of self but 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.440 also her own music, Like they've never like neither of 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:42.000 them have been on trend, you know, like neither of 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.960 them have been sort of like had that desire to 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.760 go with what was happening culturally at that moment, and 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.320 that's why they were successful with their music for so 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.640 long and why their music continues to be successful. I 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.320 mean even yeah, there was a two year difference between 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.360 that Dreams moment and I guess really a year and 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.800 a half difference between the dream Women in late twenty 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:05.480 twenty and like the summer of twenty twenty two Running 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.840 Up that Hill resurgence, and like those songs could come 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.280 out at any time, Like there's nothing about Running Up That 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.720 Hill that sounds like ninet eighty five, Like I guess, 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.120 like the sense, Yes, but like there are so many 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.320 artists that are kind of the daughters of Kate Bush, 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.440 daughters and sons of Kate Bush, that I feel like 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.880 if they released this song today, if they were the 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:29.520 ones that had written this, it would be just as successful. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:30.240 Yeah. 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.480 The affinities between that moment, like you said, the huge 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:38.040 like dreams going viral and not just running up that hill, 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.240 but the whole sort of explosion in Kate bush obsession 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.600 as artists, as performers. There's something kind of drag about 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.200 them both, like they're over the top presentation of femininity 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.560 and that they're both definitely of their own sensibility. I 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.200 mean you said, like neither seems like from any particular 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.160 time or trend, and they seem almost like the more 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.400 determined to be in a late nineteenth century gothic novel 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:09.280 than anything happening in rock and roll in the twentieth century. Yeah, 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.640 and yet that's a way that they mark their independence, 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.600 as you know, female artists calling their own shots. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.240 Yeah, and even just like to think about the way 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.959 those two songs broke through everything, and especially ranat that 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.880 Hill because Ryant that hill was on This is season 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.480 four of Stranger Things that show has been big since 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.240 the first season. It's a massive show, and they have 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.679 a really great music supervisor who uses incredible music from 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.960 the era. But for some reason, more than any other 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.199 song that's been used, this one not only like charted 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.720 and had a moment and became big. It topped the charts. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:43.120 It was on the radio like it was back on 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.079 the radio being played alongside you know, artists in their 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.760 twenties who were having massive hits. You know, it's like 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.080 artists that weren't even born when the song came out. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.040 Do you watch Are You a Stranger Things Fan? 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:54.560 Yeah? 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.040 Yeah, I thought that scene was so such a great 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.720 use of it because I think people were also loving 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.679 the that you know, there's a scene of Sadie Singh's 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:07.640 character is being like possessed by something demic gorgan I 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.839 don't know. She put the headphones in her ear because 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.719 this is a song that's been like really centering for her. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.880 While she's greeting her brother, her body's like rising and 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:17.880 ranging up that hill is playing, and it's like I 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:19.520 think also everyone was just like kind of how it 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.000 feels to listen to the song. It's kind of like 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.320 a great sort of representation of like I'm like sort 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.240 of just like ascending in the air listening to Kate 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.800 Bush and her deal with God. Like it's you know, 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.800 perfect image to go with the song and also really 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:38.840 touching and beautiful and emotional scene that was done very 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.360 effectively in this you know, horror show. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:45.160 Yeah, it really kind of captured the emotional power of 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.480 the song in really like a beautiful and admid sort 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.679 of way. And yet there are songs in TV shows 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.320 every single week. Yeah, Stranger Things has done this with 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.640 many songs. Lots of songs get used in a clever 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:00.200 way and people think, ah, that's great, they don't go 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.400 to the top ten. And it was just such a 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.160 strange thing to happen because that basically never happens. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:13.360 That strange thing, strange stranger Yes, I walked into that one, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.400 but yeah, I have this really specific, vivid memory being 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.680 in a cab and they've got Z one hundred on 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.000 the top forty station and it was literally it was 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.440 like good as hell into like running up that hill 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.400 into as it was, and. 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.640 It was like, yeah, this is what pop music is 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.800 right now? Yeah, is this k Bush song that's nearly 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.880 forty years old and yet doesn't fit in now, doesn't 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.160 sound conventional or conformist to anything now, still not in 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.120 touch with any trend. Yeah, as you said, just as 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.439 it wasn't in the eighties. And it's weird that the 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.599 song that is so unique and never fades into the background, 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:56.920 but it always, it always finds a life wherever it 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:58.400 is and whenever it is. What are some of the 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.400 other k Bush songs that are huge for you? 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.960 Prownz of Love is like one of my favorite albums 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.959 of all time. I think, like back to front to 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.920 back perfect And I remember kind of having this moment 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.200 where I was just like, I was like, huh, what 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.040 is this song? I was like, this is the most 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.760 beautiful song I've ever heard in my entire life. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.000 Well, it's wild because she has that whole really strange 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.640 origin story where she's, you know, this rustic, reclusive English 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.800 teenager and a tape of her songs gets to, of 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.920 all people, David Gilmour and Pink Floyd, and he makes 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:41.240 this career happen for her in the seventies and she's 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.240 totally unlike anything else that is happening in British pop 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.600 or British rock or anywhere on the planet in the seventies, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.160 and then in the early ladies she gets into that 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.640 fairlight synthesizer and you know, Babushka is one of the 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.120 first songs to come out of that. But certainly Breathing 0:12:56.400 --> 0:13:00.720 such a pivotal single for her, and suddenly she could 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:04.400 make all these incredibly weird sounds happen herself. Also, some 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.000 things so touching about, like her making all this music 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:11.880 with her brother, Yeah, Patty and you know, very reclusive brother, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.199 like didn't want any share of the spotlight anymore than 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.960 she did. Very much like the sort of Billy and 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.240 Phineas of their day. You know this like really like 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:24.080 brilliant like brother sister duo creating these like totally bizarre 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:24.640 pop songs. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:26.320 Yeah, I feel like I don't know that much about 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.040 her and her brother. How much should they work on? 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.600 Sort of in the early early days of her career, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:31.640 he was. 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.360 Like older and had more studio savvy, kind of like 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.800 Phineas that way, But it was always her vision, her songs, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.880 her voice. Such a fantastic sort of partnership. She has 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.560 always her entire career been very particular about who she 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:51.959 works with and very loyal with people who she thrives 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.960 working with Yeah, but it's it's so fascinating to see 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:58.280 that she's had so many different sort of careers. 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.160 Yeah, And I'm curiously what you think about the people 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:06.600 who are very clearly inspired by or influenced by Kate 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.120 Bush and you both Kate Bush Like, I feel like 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:09.840 the first one that always comes to mind to me. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.800 First two people are like Tory Amos and Yorke even 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.320 thinking about like, I don't know if Billy Billy Eilish 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.280 has ever spoken explicitly about her, but you can so 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.640 see a through line from Kate Bush to her and 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.200 where they have this like such a perfect image of 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.240 how to match the visual with their music and also 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.560 just being really kind of creative with their own storytelling 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:31.120 in that way. 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:34.920 Well, Prince Like certainly like comes to the top of 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.680 the list for me in terms of an artists who's 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.359 very much contemporary with her. They both put out their albums, 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.320 their first albums around the same time when they were 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.120 very very very young, still in their teens. They sort 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:50.840 of had simultaneous careers, both doing absolutely the opposite of 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.640 what anybody wanted to like. Certainly, whatever the record company 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:57.320 hoped their next album was this one was going to 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.800 be the opposite. I think that that was a way 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:03.400 that they certainly like On Prince's part, he certainly like 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.120 felt that affinity with Kate Bush and like wrote a 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.600 beautiful song about her. Was always she was like Joni 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.120 Mitchell for him in terms of an artist who is 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.080 a true original, who was always going their own way 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.800 and making a different album every time. Taylor Swift is 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:24.120 also another one who she's a big about Cape Bush fan, 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.320 and you could definitely see that influence in her work 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.200 of just doing something different every time. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.280 Yeah, especially the kind of the more sort of like 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:35.239 Victorian type of like like a style of like songwriting, 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.240 sort of aesthetic influence that Taylor kind of has, and 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.840 you know, especially like folk or and evermore albums and 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.960 here and there across her discography. But though specifically you 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.800 can kind of see that like connection be the loudest on. 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.960 There totally totally. Reputation is very much like that. It's 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.280 sort of like the that was the dark Kate Bush album. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.320 That was the one where her English record company was like, Okay, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.240 she had a good run, she's done. Now she's gone 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.400 off the deep end and she's made this album full 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.560 of you know, rage and like homicidal angst and playing 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.640 all these different characters like and very much the same 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.640 kind of heavy synth, industrial ish kind of thing that 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.120 Taylor was doing on Reputation. Yeah, and of course like 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.400 Outcast and you know, yeah, Big Boys tribute to her 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:25.440 so incredibly moving and evocative. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.040 Yeah, and I mean you can so sense that kind 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.760 of I don't know, that that freedom that they're inspired 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.960 by in Kate Bush again, that production, that sort of 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.800 like weird melody changes and kind of the storytelling like 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.320 all that is so much in Outcast music. And yeah, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.120 I'm obsessed with every time Big Boy talks about Kate Bush, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.080 just because he's such like a like such a huge 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.160 fan of it, of her, And I've dreamed of a 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.600 a Kate Bush Big Boy moment. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.000 I feel I feel like it'll happen. It'll be the 0:16:56.120 --> 0:17:00.880 equemini of like you're the one who would know which 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:02.880 which which those two artists were signed. 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.520 But yeah, I think we need the We need them to. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.159 I need her to invite Big Boy to the castle. 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:18.719 You know, he brings out I think also like to 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.800 a point that you're bringing up much earlier about you know, 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.359 just the way that she writes about grief. There is 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.320 so much influence on goth music and on kind of 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.840 like the way that kind of like post punk and 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:34.200 new wave developed and dark wave developed in after she debuted, 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.200 Like I think, I feel like I don't know, maybe 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.919 I just haven't seen as much of this discussion of 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.120 her kind of influence on sort of that hol astatic 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:43.840 on that on the music scene and all that with 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.160 goth music. But I feel like there's so much Kate 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.480 Bush in the way that that sort of continued to 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:49.399 develop over the years. 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.480 Absolutely, I think you're on ndred percent right about that. Yeah, 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.080 And definitely her interest in that sort of goth obsession 0:17:56.280 --> 0:18:01.119 with the eighteen eighties eighteen nineties, you know, English people 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.879 with consumption, you know, like in rooms with tendrils of 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.240 ivy like surrounding them. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:06.720 You know. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.600 She she had a great song about hammer horror movies, 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.320 you know, like that is her sensibility and that's that's 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:13.280 where goth comes from. 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.520 Yeah, Like there's so much of that, like depeche Mode 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.280 Kate Bush kind of through line there too. 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:20.880 Do you think she'll she'll make music again. 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.600 I don't think so. I think she's retired. I think 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.960 she is, she's chilling now. She seems like she's always 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.000 been very shy and very like just reclusive. So I 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:32.120 feel like she's done the thing. She's seen immense success. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:33.240 I think she's done. 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.359 What about you, I think you're right, But you know, 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:36.879 you never know when she's going to come back. She 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.640 seemed done for so many years, and then she came 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.359 back more or less out of nowhere with Ariel and 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.880 it's like, oh, Kate Bush feels like making another album, Yes, 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.200 please keep doing this a lot, and it's like no, 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.679 she just like she just does it when she feels 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:52.760 like it. So I feel like it'll be like you know, 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.560 David Bowie in his last years, or like Leonard Cohen 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.960 in his last years, where you know, occasionally they'll come 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.240 out of the garden. Oh, by the way, I've got 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:02.280 a few new songs for you. 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:02.800 Yeah. 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.840 You know, she just wanted to create music and release 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.520 things and not have to like leave her home. She 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.360 could do that if she wanted to do, and kind 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.760 of have that privacy still that she really wants, and 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.000 also itch that whatever like creative thing that she may 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.520 have in the future, which I mean I welcome. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:25.600 Whenever I think your prediction about her big boy like 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:31.000 making the great the goth progue album of. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.120 The Yeah, let's get some Mandre three thousand flute on there. 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.359 Let's you know, let's do all we're there, Yes, Yeah, 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.680 let's just get them all there. And after the break, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:46.040 we'll be joined by Rolling Stone Deputy music editor Julisa Lopez. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.320 We are joined now by Rolling Stone Deputy music editor 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:51.240 ju Lisa Lopez. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.160 Thank you so much, thanks for having me guys greatly here. 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.080 So we're gonna we're gonna make a deal with God. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:01.960 And do you remember the first time you heard Kate 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:02.840 Bush or this song. 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.040