Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly
Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small
Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions
Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford,
Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or
Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you
Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is
Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with
Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me for session three ninety eight of the
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our
Speaker 1: conversation afterword from our sponsors.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 3: I'm doctor ke Hallman. I'm on a Therapy for Black
Speaker 3: Girls podcast.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 3: I'm in session discussing the myth of individual success and
Speaker 3: the transformative power of community.
Speaker 1: We've been fortunate to have such amazing guests on the show,
Speaker 1: which makes it all the more exciting when we get
Speaker 1: to have them return. Today, I'm rejoined by my dear friend,
Speaker 1: doctor Lakisha Hallman to discuss some of the themes in
Speaker 1: her new book, No One Is Self Made, from community
Speaker 1: care and entrepreneurship to the response and responsibility of small
Speaker 1: business owners in the wake of corporations repealing THEI we
Speaker 1: get into the idea of building out by first building within.
Speaker 1: As I reflect on the last ten years of my
Speaker 1: journey with Therapy for Black Girls, I'm especially proud of
Speaker 1: how it inextricably linked our show. Success has been with
Speaker 1: building community outside of the podcast, and I'm really excited
Speaker 1: for you to hear this incredible conversation. If something resonates
Speaker 1: with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with
Speaker 1: us on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session.
Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. So it is officially launch a week.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling?
Speaker 2: I feel good. I feel good. I am. I feel
Speaker 2: very grateful.
Speaker 3: I think that's like the overwhelming feeling I just had
Speaker 3: these moments.
Speaker 2: I'm be like, man, God, we did that good.
Speaker 1: So you helping the self care and all of the
Speaker 1: grounding and everything to get through this world. One week?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am.
Speaker 3: I had a great workout before sitting down with you,
Speaker 3: and then I'm gonna go for a walk a little
Speaker 3: bit later today. I think as long as I do
Speaker 3: those things and still have quiet time, I feel good.
Speaker 2: Good good. I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I figured you already had a put but I definitely
Speaker 1: wanted to check in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of moving directions. I
Speaker 3: have a whole tour line up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a lot to do within these next
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. So I am very honored to have
Speaker 1: one of my close friends, doctor Key Holman, joining us
Speaker 1: today just talk about the launch of her new book,
Speaker 1: No One Is Self Made. And so, doctor Key, I
Speaker 1: know a lot of the origin story behind the book
Speaker 1: and why it feels more urgent and more timely than
Speaker 1: ever now, but I'd love for you to share with
Speaker 1: our community, what was the really the impetus for writing
Speaker 1: No One Is Self Made?
Speaker 3: Before I answer that question, can I just say I'm
Speaker 3: so excited to be on Therapy for Black Girls a second.
Speaker 1: Time, second time visitor, second time.
Speaker 2: I'm so so excited.
Speaker 3: But answer the question around the origin story how we
Speaker 3: got here, Doctor Joy. I've wanted to write forever. One
Speaker 3: of my earliest childhood memories, maybe six or seven years old,
Speaker 3: I would tell my mom and sign her Mother's Day cards,
Speaker 3: her birthday cards, her future Author and my first time
Speaker 3: I remember doing that, I was maybe six or seven
Speaker 3: years old. So this has been like a dream of
Speaker 3: mine for the entirety of my life. And I think,
Speaker 3: what's so incredible about this time now? I couldn't have
Speaker 3: written this book ten years ago. I couldn't have written
Speaker 3: this book five years ago. This book is all about
Speaker 3: divine timing because it's all about building community. And I
Speaker 3: think we're in a place now where it's less about
Speaker 3: talking about community. I think we realize how much we
Speaker 3: needed and no one is self made is talking about
Speaker 3: how to be in community, because for me, community will
Speaker 3: be and always has been the thing to save us.
Speaker 1: So first of all, I didn't know that story until
Speaker 1: I read the book about you signing your cards is
Speaker 1: your Future Author? Was so sweet and so like I
Speaker 1: feel like manifesting, right, because that feels like very much
Speaker 1: a you, thing that you would have done at six
Speaker 1: years old. And I think we often think about community
Speaker 1: really in terms of like personal stuff, right, Like, so
Speaker 1: you think about your friendship circles, you think about like that.
Speaker 1: I think what is unique about the way that you
Speaker 1: talk about community is that you also talk about the
Speaker 1: impact it has in terms of entrepreneurship and the success
Speaker 1: of businesses. So can you talk a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the need for community, especially as it relates to
Speaker 1: economic success.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think the model for our community in particular,
Speaker 3: or in a group that's deemed as a minority, collective economics.
Speaker 3: Group economics is the way forward. As business owners, I
Speaker 3: can only imagine where I would be if I had
Speaker 3: the mindset that I have now.
Speaker 2: I knew to build in community, but I didn't.
Speaker 3: Necessarily know how to do so in twenty sixteen when
Speaker 3: I was building a village market, I didn't really understand
Speaker 3: the functioning. The functionings of success is contingent upon how
Speaker 3: having a clear vision and values aligned ecosystem, and so
Speaker 3: I think for entrepreneurs business owners, it's the model. It's
Speaker 3: the model of how do we pull our resources, our
Speaker 3: money together to go after bulk bides of inventory. How
Speaker 3: do we pull our money together to go after office space,
Speaker 3: warehouse space, How do we pull our money together to
Speaker 3: share a fractional COO, a fractional CPA, all these things.
Speaker 3: Because when you're first starting, you don't necessarily have the
Speaker 3: capital to afford all these things. But we can do it,
Speaker 3: and we can afford it together and beyond those tangible things,
Speaker 3: there's nothing like having an ecosystem, a community of people
Speaker 3: that understand what you are doing. So being in community
Speaker 3: with like minds and sharing your startup journeys, sharing the
Speaker 3: hard days, stressful days, it's nothing like it. It's a
Speaker 3: place of resolve and it's also a place of solution.
Speaker 3: I've been able to have many tough conversations with you
Speaker 3: about business, about oh, doctor Joy, this is going on,
Speaker 3: and we problem solve in real time together.
Speaker 2: That is what community is, and that is what I
Speaker 2: want us.
Speaker 3: To start building and thinking about and putting that as
Speaker 3: our framework on it as and how we build hmm.
Speaker 1: You know, I appreciate you bringing in that example because
Speaker 1: I'm remembering and reflecting on some of the very difficult
Speaker 1: conversations we've had about like what does this even mean?
Speaker 1: Like how do we find ourselves here? Like trying to
Speaker 1: do these big girl things as we sometimes call it.
Speaker 1: But I'm thinking about like when I first met you,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been having very open conversations with you
Speaker 1: about like finances and like, hey, I'm really struggling with
Speaker 1: this thing in my business, which is something that you
Speaker 1: address in no one is self made, right because in
Speaker 1: order to say hey, let's go have on a CFO
Speaker 1: or let's split a website design person, there's a level
Speaker 1: of honesty and like safety, I think that has to happen.
Speaker 1: So can you talk about how you get to that
Speaker 1: place right in business? Because these aren't necessarily people that
Speaker 1: you would have known from college, right, Like these are
Speaker 1: newer relationships, Like you're a newer friend to me, right,
Speaker 1: And so I think that there can be some heloitance
Speaker 1: to talk very honestly about numbers and like the intricacies
Speaker 1: of our business with people who may be fairly new
Speaker 1: to us.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and that's a great call out. So business relationships
Speaker 3: is like any other relationship. I don't think you come
Speaker 3: in on the first day making out the demands of
Speaker 3: what you want. I think is gradual over time. How
Speaker 3: trust is built. The way that we've been able to
Speaker 3: collaborate in business was not from the very first time
Speaker 3: we met. But we knew when we first met. I
Speaker 3: knew that there was something special about you and that
Speaker 3: you would be in my life, and I allow that
Speaker 3: to just happen organically. I think as we go into
Speaker 3: a community, one thing that we can control for is
Speaker 3: the intentions that we write or as you say, manifests.
Speaker 3: But we can be very intentional with the type of
Speaker 3: partners we want to attract, the type of people that
Speaker 3: we want to bring. Again to me, that is step
Speaker 3: one being able to identify the type of collaboration that
Speaker 3: we want to have, and then secondly going out and
Speaker 3: being in spaces of community of like minds. So it's
Speaker 3: not going to every entrepreneur event. It's going to entrepreneur
Speaker 3: events that speak to you. So I'm more of a
Speaker 3: holistic entrepreneur, so I need the wellness piece. I need
Speaker 3: that to be married with a conference that's also talking
Speaker 3: about scaling. The reason why that's important to me. I
Speaker 3: can imagine there's other people like me that's going to
Speaker 3: be in that space because we all decided to go
Speaker 3: to the same thing. And then thirdly, from reaching out
Speaker 3: to people and saying, hey, you know, I would love
Speaker 3: to cop on a zoom with you, learn more about
Speaker 3: you as a person and I share more about me
Speaker 3: than we began to form a relationship. I think what
Speaker 3: happens after that is that either the relationship catches own
Speaker 3: or it doesn't. But I do not believe that you
Speaker 3: jump into relationships saying let's go buy a building together.
Speaker 3: I think too soon, too soon. Vulnerability takes time, Trust
Speaker 3: takes time. What I tell entrepreneurs and folks like I
Speaker 3: was almost ten years ago, you don't have to knock
Speaker 3: it out of the park with your first experience. I
Speaker 3: think that we meet people and we say, I finally
Speaker 3: met doctor Joy. I gotta tell her everything I got
Speaker 3: to work with her today. I think we have to
Speaker 3: trust the evolution of relationships. I think we have to
Speaker 3: trust that if you build organically, if someone reaches out
Speaker 3: and talks to you from a real place, doctor Joy,
Speaker 3: of just recognizing the gifts that you have and telling
Speaker 3: you thank you for creating therapy for black girls, I
Speaker 3: believe that is a deeper way to start saying I
Speaker 3: see you in the ability of being seen. I think
Speaker 3: we get to see other people. I love more warm
Speaker 3: approaches rather than coming again hot with all these big
Speaker 3: demands of what we want from business partners.
Speaker 1: So you talk about in the book, like the importance
Speaker 1: of recognizing other people's gifts and like trying to kind
Speaker 1: of hire from within your village as much as possible.
Speaker 1: I feel like we've had other conversations not you and I,
Speaker 1: but me and other guests on the podcast, just about
Speaker 1: some of the difficulties with boundaries when like you blend relationships. Right,
Speaker 1: So your sister works in one of your businesses, you
Speaker 1: have another business with two of your really close friends,
Speaker 1: So you've really done the work of like multiple relationships
Speaker 1: with people in your life. Can you share some about
Speaker 1: how do you manage boundaries and like what kinds of
Speaker 1: maybe difficult conversations have you had to have with those
Speaker 1: people when you're extending a current relationship to from personal
Speaker 1: to now business first?
Speaker 2: Can we talk about boundaries?
Speaker 3: It's necessary in everything, and it's necessary and business is
Speaker 3: necessary when you are a leader in the world because
Speaker 3: so much is incoming and so much is outgoing. And
Speaker 3: so I've structured my life almost there's a fortress around
Speaker 3: me to make sure that my mental health is strong,
Speaker 3: my spiritual health is strong as well. But yes, I've
Speaker 3: been able to partner with two friends, Juel and Tracy,
Speaker 3: for our company three ten Studios. My sister, Yolanda is
Speaker 3: my operations manager for the village. None of these relationships
Speaker 3: were premature. What's so beautiful about Yolanda leading the way?
Speaker 3: Yolanda is an impeccable business woman. She is so skilled
Speaker 3: in the retail industry, and how that relationship happened, meaning
Speaker 3: she decided to come drain me on the mission.
Speaker 2: She was helping me interview people.
Speaker 3: And we couldn't find the right fit. And if y'all
Speaker 3: read the book, you're going to learn all about this.
Speaker 3: But we couldn't find the right fit. And it hit
Speaker 3: me one day, doctor Joyd. I was like, we're sitting
Speaker 3: and interviewing and a person I need is a person
Speaker 3: has always been consistent, honest, hardworking, shared within herself the
Speaker 3: same values that I have about treating people, and also
Speaker 3: has the experience to do what I'm striving to do.
Speaker 3: I didn't have to look anymore. I call Yolanda and
Speaker 3: I said, I think I've been looking for you.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 3: I think we've been interviewing people and we can't find
Speaker 3: anyone because it's you. And she made the decision in
Speaker 3: less than four to eight hours to uproot her life
Speaker 3: and moved to Georgia to be on this mission with me.
Speaker 3: And the level of trust that we have in each other,
Speaker 3: it is beyond the physical sisterhood of sharing parents. It
Speaker 3: is a sisterhood of what we are committed to and
Speaker 3: bringing forth in a community. So I didn't just get
Speaker 3: to hire a sibling. I got to be on a
Speaker 3: mission with one of the best in the industry who
Speaker 3: so happens to be my sister. And for Jewel and Tracy,
Speaker 3: we've been friends now for a number of years and
Speaker 3: this is our first time going on a venture together.
Speaker 3: Because the timing was perfect, we didn't even overthink investing
Speaker 3: in three ten together. Tracy found a building, reached out
Speaker 3: to Jewel, reached out to me. We met at our friends' venue.
Speaker 3: We sat there and we talked maybe two to three hours,
Speaker 3: and we made a decision that we were going to
Speaker 3: do it. It was much more than business. We all
Speaker 3: have respect for each other. So I think if you're
Speaker 3: going to bring a family member or a close friend on,
Speaker 3: you have to make sure that they have respect for
Speaker 3: you as the business woman that you are or the
Speaker 3: businessman that you are. For all our listeners, you have
Speaker 3: to have people that understand that you are on a
Speaker 3: mission and on a path, and they respect that you
Speaker 3: are the person that's appointed to do it. They're willing
Speaker 3: to work alongside you. I have a profound respect for Jule.
Speaker 3: I have a profound respect for Tracy and they share
Speaker 3: the same with me, And we knew that we could
Speaker 3: open three ten and do something and set a presidence
Speaker 3: of what it means to put your money together and
Speaker 3: physically go do something and not overthink it.
Speaker 2: But for me, the.
Speaker 3: Boundary always begins and ends with love and respect.
Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, we talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about like why it feels like your book
Speaker 1: is so important, especially in this time you and I
Speaker 1: have not had this conversation. I purposely not talk to
Speaker 1: you about this conversation because I wanted to save it
Speaker 1: for the podcast. But you know, in the past couple
Speaker 1: of weeks we have seen all of these rollbacks of
Speaker 1: DEI programs. Specifically, I think Target, right, so, I think
Speaker 1: Target has felt the most impactful in terms of the
Speaker 1: Black community because I think it, at least outwardly, there
Speaker 1: were such an incubator for new black businesses, right, Like
Speaker 1: I know they have like put on the map some
Speaker 1: of these brands that we all love now and like
Speaker 1: we love that we can find it in Target. And
Speaker 1: so lately I've been observing these conversations around like how
Speaker 1: do we continue to support like these small business owners
Speaker 1: if we make the choice not to support Target, And
Speaker 1: so it feels like there is not like confusion about
Speaker 1: whether we continue to support the business owners. It feels
Speaker 1: like the confusion is about how and what is most
Speaker 1: impactful to me. It feels like this is an inside
Speaker 1: versus outside conversation, though it's hard because there is no
Speaker 1: real place for an inside conversation. I feel like we
Speaker 1: are trying to muddle through it right, like we're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, like what is the best path forward?
Speaker 1: And this is how I feel like our books are
Speaker 1: in conversation with one another, because I do feel like
Speaker 1: there is a way for us to come to each
Speaker 1: other in love, even though this is a messy situation
Speaker 1: we're all trying to figure out, and I think sometimes
Speaker 1: that is lost. And so I would love to hear
Speaker 1: your thoughts about how do we move forward, because you
Speaker 1: know so much of your platform is like around collective economics,
Speaker 1: and it feels hard to do that when we can't
Speaker 1: really get on one accord about like what the path
Speaker 1: forward looks like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you for asking me that question.
Speaker 3: I share in the overwhelming feeling that I feel that
Speaker 3: many of us had with Target. We were like, oh no,
Speaker 3: not Target, not Target.
Speaker 2: Because yeah, not tar Jack, not tar Jay.
Speaker 3: But you landed on Why it mattered, it's because how
Speaker 3: they stood, it's how they stood out is the bold
Speaker 3: steps that they were taking to ensure that diversity, equity,
Speaker 3: and inclusion were power statements well, an affirmation of how
Speaker 3: they were going to coexist with us in the world.
Speaker 3: And for them to roll back that, it's like, auh,
Speaker 3: you were doing so well standing, why must you sit
Speaker 3: now when we need you to stand? And because of that,
Speaker 3: it left our community in a sense of discombobulation. Some
Speaker 3: felt in many feel Target would never get a dollar
Speaker 3: of mine again. Others may feel only black brands would
Speaker 3: get my money at Target. But I think what many
Speaker 3: people feel is a sense it's a betrayal, and either
Speaker 3: one of those solutions or how we decide to move
Speaker 3: is a sense of betrayal there because we expected better
Speaker 3: for a corporation that said they understood our value, and
Speaker 3: that is a betrayal, being a let down of values.
Speaker 3: I want to remind all the incredible listeners not everybody
Speaker 3: participated in the montgovernment bus boycott.
Speaker 2: I know it.
Speaker 3: It appeared like we were all on the same page.
Speaker 3: But we don't know what those closed door conversations were being.
Speaker 3: We don't know how many doors would slam, how many arguments,
Speaker 3: how many tough conversations.
Speaker 2: We don't know that.
Speaker 3: So what happens on social media we get to see
Speaker 3: it played out loud. We don't have the safety of
Speaker 3: privacy on social media because I do believe that people
Speaker 3: have to respectfully and can respectfully disagree with each other.
Speaker 3: But what broke my heart joy is that we began
Speaker 3: in this process to turn our folks on each other
Speaker 3: when the focus should have been solely on these corporations.
Speaker 3: We began to attack each other, and that is not
Speaker 3: the solved. We can respectfully disagree, but we have to
Speaker 3: remember that we are not each other's enemy. We are
Speaker 3: not the people that created this. So there is no
Speaker 3: time to then start to tear down your sister or
Speaker 3: your brother. We are one functioning body that may have
Speaker 3: different ideas on what the body needs, but we are
Speaker 3: one functioning body. So I have a great deal of
Speaker 3: respect and empathy that this has been a trying time.
Speaker 2: But I also want us to know that this.
Speaker 3: Is a trying time that we did not create in
Speaker 3: order to exist in this moment. And to survive this moment,
Speaker 3: we have to recenter our gaze not on each other,
Speaker 3: but on.
Speaker 2: Who was the steward of this discord.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't us. And so I write about the
Speaker 3: book the power of our Words. I write about the
Speaker 3: book and how that we must hold each other with
Speaker 3: delicate hands even if we disagree.
Speaker 2: Because that's okay.
Speaker 3: It's totally okay to disagree, but it's not okay for
Speaker 3: us to become harmful with our words and with our
Speaker 3: fingers towards each other.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, And I really appreciate you saying that, because
Speaker 1: it does feel like that is very much the function
Speaker 1: of white supremacy, right like that, now we are fighting
Speaker 1: with one another, and the onus is not on the
Speaker 1: corporations anymore, right like now, it is us figuring it
Speaker 1: out for ourselves. So I really appreciate that. I want
Speaker 1: to take a step back and think about where did
Speaker 1: this idea that we had to be self made even
Speaker 1: come from? Where did this idea of that's the only
Speaker 1: way that success looks is that you are self made
Speaker 1: and like nobody helped you to get there.
Speaker 3: I think our country unfortunately sits on the foundation of individualism,
Speaker 3: and I think if its seats in the roots of individualism,
Speaker 3: then you're going to have things like self made. And
Speaker 3: I would tell you in our own community, when we
Speaker 3: call each other self made, I think the only intention
Speaker 3: there is to say I'm proud of you. You did that,
Speaker 3: you made a way out of no way, as my
Speaker 3: grandma would say. I think that is what our intentions
Speaker 3: are in that. But I think as a culture, as
Speaker 3: a consciousness, we are communal people.
Speaker 2: So even on my.
Speaker 3: Best day in business, even with the release of no
Speaker 3: one is self made, even with sisterhood heels, there are
Speaker 3: many players that contributed to us being able to write books,
Speaker 3: to own businesses, to be leaders. When we champion self made,
Speaker 3: I believe we erase those people, and that is not
Speaker 3: our intention. I believe that we erase the players who
Speaker 3: were so influential on our journey. But I think we
Speaker 3: get in as a country and we're talking about business owners.
Speaker 3: I think self made comes from an individualistic mindset, and
Speaker 3: that individualistic mindset is causing peril in our community. We
Speaker 3: need to shout to the raptors that we are a
Speaker 3: village made, that I'm a reflection of a number of
Speaker 3: people who assisted in my greatness, and I'm not taken
Speaker 3: away from the level of self determination, self reliance it
Speaker 3: takes to achieve the things that we've achieved. You must
Speaker 3: answer the individual call in your life. But I also
Speaker 3: know that there are many people that assist us on
Speaker 3: our best day and also be there for us on
Speaker 3: our worst day. And that is what I'm hoping that
Speaker 3: our community get back to. We must return to community.
Speaker 3: Community is the only thing that would propel us forward,
Speaker 3: and we have to divorce divorced mindsets of individualism. We
Speaker 3: have to divorce constructs that have never pushed us forward
Speaker 3: but hold us back. It is not good enough for
Speaker 3: one of us to succeed. It is to our betterment
Speaker 3: that we have a functioning body that many of us
Speaker 3: are rising at the same time.
Speaker 2: And that's the story that we're telling.
Speaker 1: The other book, you talk about like six different rules
Speaker 1: that you feel like are important for a community to
Speaker 1: be successful or for a business to be successful, and
Speaker 1: I really love the breakdown of that. So would you
Speaker 1: talk about those six different types and how people might
Speaker 1: figure out like who they are within their own communities.
Speaker 3: I don't want to get too much away to our listeners,
Speaker 3: but I will say for people who feel they are builders.
Speaker 3: I wrote something for you, people who feel that they
Speaker 3: are those that can cast and see a vision into
Speaker 3: a future.
Speaker 2: Futurist, I wrote something for you in this book.
Speaker 3: The reason why I broke it and broke down these six
Speaker 3: functionings of a community because in order for us to
Speaker 3: build in community, we have to know where our gifts lie.
Speaker 3: In order for me to know that if I'm a
Speaker 3: futurist and a builder, and I need to make sure
Speaker 3: that I attract more cheerleaders, that I attract more observers, y'all,
Speaker 3: I'm giving y'all nuggets in a book, more observers in
Speaker 3: the village. You have to know what you possess in
Speaker 3: order to know what you need. And so I'm hoping
Speaker 3: as people come to that chapter, I hope that you
Speaker 3: also reminded that your gifts are powerful and needed. So,
Speaker 3: if you function as a cheerleader, you have power and
Speaker 3: being a cheerleader. If you're functioning as an observer, we
Speaker 3: need all your wisdom. If you're functioning as a futurist,
Speaker 3: make sure you're a partner with a builder so we
Speaker 3: can make sure those things that you're envision they actually
Speaker 3: come to be But the reason why doctor Jorye this
Speaker 3: chapter and breaking it down meant so much to me
Speaker 3: is because I meet people often that say, doctor Key,
Speaker 3: I don't even know where to start a doctor Key,
Speaker 3: I don't really know what gives the talents that I possess.
Speaker 3: I got six for you, and I bet they're somewhere
Speaker 3: in that six you will see yourself, and there's somewhere
Speaker 3: in your six you're going to see other people in
Speaker 3: your community.
Speaker 2: And as those people begin to come to your.
Speaker 3: Mind, I need you to write their names down, because
Speaker 3: you could be writing a blueprint for your team. You
Speaker 3: could be writing a blueprint for the community that you're
Speaker 3: going to foster and create.
Speaker 1: You talk about this, and I really appreciate that, because
Speaker 1: you're talk in the book about not really feeling afraid
Speaker 1: of the vision once you had it right. And I
Speaker 1: think that that is where a lot of us get stuck,
Speaker 1: that we kind of start thinking about something. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't even know where to start with this. This
Speaker 1: feels really scary. What would you tell people about pushing
Speaker 1: past any fear they have along that vision?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, listen, so many people have done things scared and
Speaker 3: they did it anyway. I will say this in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five. I need you to do it, afraid if
Speaker 3: you're consistently getting the vision and it keeps coming back
Speaker 3: to you and back to you. One of my favorite
Speaker 3: movies is The Color Purple, and I remember sug Avery
Speaker 3: talking about it. She can't sleep at night, and she
Speaker 3: wonders why, because God is trying to tell her something.
Speaker 3: If you are an entrepreneur and that vision keeps coming
Speaker 3: back to you and you can't sleep at night, it's
Speaker 3: because there is something for you to birth.
Speaker 2: It is something for you to do.
Speaker 3: Let you hear from me. You are capable of doing it.
Speaker 3: And there is no such thing as a perfect process.
Speaker 3: There are moments when you get full body yess and
Speaker 3: then the world be like, no, sit down, No, I
Speaker 3: need you to stand back up. I need you to
Speaker 3: stand back up because this is a critical time.
Speaker 2: For us to be alive.
Speaker 3: I think it is upon our destiny, doctor Joy, to
Speaker 3: be alive at such a time as this. And so
Speaker 3: if you are the person that nagging thing keeps coming
Speaker 3: in twenty five, in twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven,
Speaker 3: we need you to do it.
Speaker 2: This is such a time for us to be alive.
Speaker 3: But I am so inspired in fuol by it, So listeners,
Speaker 3: all the collective, I need you to build anyway.
Speaker 2: I need you to build anyway.
Speaker 1: One other thing that I was really inspired by in
Speaker 1: the book is that you are very transparent about mistakes
Speaker 1: that you have made along the way, right, And I
Speaker 1: think a lot of times people who are on the
Speaker 1: outside don't know that, like, of course you're humans or
Speaker 1: you're making mistakes. But I think sometimes we mask it
Speaker 1: really well, like people just don't know the inner workings.
Speaker 1: So what can you say that you've learned about making
Speaker 1: mistakes as entrepreneurs that you would maybe want other entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: to know.
Speaker 3: Yes, first, I'll say the reason why I wrote that
Speaker 3: chapter in such a way, with such level of vulnerability,
Speaker 3: because we need to start to humanize success. So when
Speaker 3: others have set back to what the perception of failures,
Speaker 3: you can say, oh wait, doctor Key had hard moments,
Speaker 3: doctor Joy had hard moments, and keep thinking of entrepreneurs
Speaker 3: because in our truth telling, we empower other people to
Speaker 3: be perfectly imperfect. So I wrote that chapter from an
Speaker 3: open space in my heart because I want people to
Speaker 3: see the human and the humanity and what it means
Speaker 3: to build something, and the hard stuff for me and
Speaker 3: those tough lessons I've learned the reason why I can
Speaker 3: get on here and talk to you about them now,
Speaker 3: doctor Joy. I just allowed them to empower me. I'm
Speaker 3: in a place in my life and my headset in
Speaker 3: mind space is that if I go through a hard moment,
Speaker 3: I just want to know the lesson. I want to
Speaker 3: know what is this moment trying to reveal to me
Speaker 3: about myself, less about people, but about me, Because I
Speaker 3: think as we get to know and understand ourselves more,
Speaker 3: we can better discern people. But we have to know
Speaker 3: and do and have a strong understanding of who we are.
Speaker 3: But I really take my lessons on my hard lessons
Speaker 3: on the chin, and sometimes I take my hard lessons
Speaker 3: in my prayer room, and sometimes I take my hard
Speaker 3: lessons to save spaces of my friend groups. And sometimes
Speaker 3: I take those hard lessons to my family and those
Speaker 3: who I know that I can confide in. But I
Speaker 3: don't allow those lessons to just sit. I apply them
Speaker 3: so I can ensure that I am building better and
Speaker 3: that I understand why I experienced it so I don't
Speaker 3: make the same mistake again. I just open myself for growth,
Speaker 3: I don't learn lessons and also have the perception that
Speaker 3: I've somehow I'm at the pinnacle and I never have
Speaker 3: a hard moment again. The other part about experiencing hard
Speaker 3: things is know that you can survive hard things. So
Speaker 3: every tough lesson, especially as I was writing that chapter,
Speaker 3: I remember in my draft stage, I told myself, and
Speaker 3: you survived it, and you are still here. You are
Speaker 3: here and you're even better. So for entrepreneurs and people
Speaker 3: change agents who are building and they you may be
Speaker 3: experienced in a very rough moment right now, you will
Speaker 3: survive it. And if you sit with the lesson and
Speaker 3: you ask the lesson, what are you trying to reveal
Speaker 3: in me? I believe that you will have some truths
Speaker 3: that's edifying to you to ensure that you're on a
Speaker 3: more focused and structured path.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that sets you apart
Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur and like the way that you have
Speaker 1: built your business and also the businesses that you have
Speaker 1: helped to build and help to set a path forward for,
Speaker 1: is that there has always been a very intentional focus
Speaker 1: on wellness and mental health. Why has that been important
Speaker 1: to you to be a cornerstone in so much of
Speaker 1: the work that you've done.
Speaker 3: Because that is the most important thing. I am not
Speaker 3: on a path, doctor Jordan. I want our people to
Speaker 3: be economically liberated. I want to be economically liberated, and
Speaker 3: I also think what should come before that, what should
Speaker 3: lead that charge, is making sure that we have peace
Speaker 3: in our soul, that our bodies are well, that our
Speaker 3: mindsets are well. That is the difference and the clear
Speaker 3: distinction of how I do and build all my work.
Speaker 3: I take this as a holistic approach. I do not
Speaker 3: want the wealth without the help.
Speaker 2: And if I have to.
Speaker 3: Make a conscious choice, Doctor Joy, if I got met
Speaker 3: with key, you can have health, you can have wealth.
Speaker 3: I'd be like Hollo wealth because I got to be
Speaker 3: here sound mind and sound body. I want to love
Speaker 3: the body that I'm in. I want to have peace
Speaker 3: in my mind. And for us to achieve economic liberation,
Speaker 3: for us to heal the collect the body, then healing
Speaker 3: has to be in the roots of what we are building.
Speaker 3: It's no time now to only focus on building businesses
Speaker 3: and scaling. You can't simply do that any longer. The
Speaker 3: time now is like, let me ensure that I an well,
Speaker 3: because if I one well, and I'm partnering with someone
Speaker 3: else will then we have an opportunity to do something transformative.
Speaker 3: It's no longer the time for just I'm just focusing
Speaker 3: on seven eight, nine figure companies. That is not our focus, y'all.
Speaker 3: That is not the mission. The mission is to be
Speaker 3: in well mind, body, spirit, and soil that would lead
Speaker 3: the type of entrepreneurs and founders and leaders. And the
Speaker 3: way that we would interact with those on our team,
Speaker 3: the way that we would position ourselves in community, the
Speaker 3: way that we will operate in the privileges that comes
Speaker 3: with success, the way that we would handle when hard
Speaker 3: moments come when you're successful, those hard moments when you
Speaker 3: grow and reach another stage nobody prepares you for. It's
Speaker 3: also hard. But if you've done the spiritual work, if
Speaker 3: you've done the mindset work, then you would have a
Speaker 3: spirit in a community. Then nothing would be able to
Speaker 3: break and shake.
Speaker 1: You one for my conversation after the break. So support
Speaker 1: is a verb is one of your most popular mantras,
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things that you say, and it's
Speaker 1: really permeated like your work with the village and comes
Speaker 1: through clear in the book. What does it look like
Speaker 1: to move towards a more active, kind of intentional mode
Speaker 1: of supporting one another versus maybe more passive.
Speaker 2: Great question. Listen, Michelle Obama.
Speaker 3: Our forever first Lady, said, it is the time to
Speaker 3: do something. Support is a verb, is about action, y'all.
Speaker 3: It is time for us to live a life where
Speaker 3: we are actually doing well. We're actually physically operating in
Speaker 3: a community that if you love black businesses, then you
Speaker 3: should be patronizing those businesses. If you are passionate about
Speaker 3: getting people registered to vote, then make sure that you're
Speaker 3: getting people registered. If you're passionate about helping people with
Speaker 3: their wellness, you need to make sure that your social
Speaker 3: media content is actually saying that in doing that. This
Speaker 3: is the time to be highly activated. I want us
Speaker 3: to have time to reflect. I want us there's power
Speaker 3: in stillness. But after we have been still, there's power
Speaker 3: in the way that we do things. Back to the
Speaker 3: question on wellness, When you take care of yourself, when
Speaker 3: the's time for you to activate, when it's time for
Speaker 3: you to do the way the force that you're going
Speaker 3: to be because of the way that you're operating, in
Speaker 3: the way that you're mobilizing. But this is a time
Speaker 3: of profound action. Nothing passive about this time that we're in. Now,
Speaker 3: we get to be transformative, and that is the pursuit
Speaker 3: I believe that we should all be on now.
Speaker 1: So I think in conjunction with our action, we know
Speaker 1: that there are some systemic beg briers that also need
Speaker 1: to change. What kinds of things would you lay out
Speaker 1: for people who to have a conversation with like their
Speaker 1: legislator or people who actually have the bower to change
Speaker 1: some of these systemic things? What kinds of changes would
Speaker 1: you like to see in the interest of black businesses?
Speaker 3: And I'll say this, doctor Joy, I write in the
Speaker 3: book a great deal of those systemic things. So I
Speaker 3: want the readers to know that I grounded this book
Speaker 3: and a great deal of research, because we're not writing
Speaker 3: from a place of with reality sitting on the other
Speaker 3: side of it.
Speaker 2: Reality is what it is.
Speaker 3: And so Number one, the way that we can advocate
Speaker 3: for black businesses in a black community is showing up
Speaker 3: for council meetings that we are aware of what's going on,
Speaker 3: or referendums and things that's on the ballot.
Speaker 2: All of that is awareness.
Speaker 3: The more we show up, the more that we can
Speaker 3: advocate for, because then people are not making decisions When
Speaker 3: our voice is not in a room, so many decisions,
Speaker 3: so many decisions are made for us because we simply
Speaker 3: would not show up. But as I see that there
Speaker 3: has been a lot of conversation on federal contracts and
Speaker 3: removing exclusion for minority owned businesses, we need to be
Speaker 3: fighting that. We need to be fighting against that. So
Speaker 3: much wealth in this country has been made due to
Speaker 3: federal contracts. So we need to be asking on the city, state,
Speaker 3: federal level, what are we doing about contracts, How are
Speaker 3: we going to ensure that they're equitable, and what does
Speaker 3: it mean to roll back the How does that impact
Speaker 3: my black business? How does that impact me? And what
Speaker 3: are you going to do about it? And so I
Speaker 3: think we have to be very clear on what we're
Speaker 3: fighting for. But you raise a good point. I do
Speaker 3: think it's time for us to get into our friends
Speaker 3: groups and grow that group and we start to think
Speaker 3: about what are our demains. As people are asking us
Speaker 3: to vote for them, then what do we want from them?
Speaker 3: If they want our vote and they will work for us,
Speaker 3: then what should they be working for. So our conversations
Speaker 3: have to start changing in our friend groups and in
Speaker 3: our community groups. We need to start thinking about the
Speaker 3: things that we want and it can't be the thing
Speaker 3: that will only benefit you. We're moving away from individualism.
Speaker 3: What is the thing that you may have a privilege
Speaker 3: and it doesn't even impact you, but you know that
Speaker 3: it impacts a number of people. That is what we
Speaker 3: need to be fighting for. And so doctor Dreward put
Speaker 3: the onus back on the community here. Our conversations with
Speaker 3: our friends need to evolve and we need to think
Speaker 3: about we can't only operate from the places of our privilege.
Speaker 3: Privilege gives you, even if you don't want it, a
Speaker 3: blind spot, that blind what have you advocating for things
Speaker 3: that only advance you but would impact the body? So
Speaker 3: we have to get away from our privileges and think
Speaker 3: about what is best for the body. That's what we
Speaker 3: need to operate and start asking and holding people accountable for.
Speaker 1: So, how do you pop that people engage with no
Speaker 1: one and self made? And what are maybe some of
Speaker 1: the major takeaways you'd hope they leave with.
Speaker 3: You know, doctor joy, I wrote this book and you
Speaker 3: read it. I wrote this book in a way that
Speaker 3: it is very conversational. I don't think that there is
Speaker 3: any space in this book that is hard to digest.
Speaker 3: I did that intentionally. So the first thing that I
Speaker 3: want the reader to feel is love. I wrote this
Speaker 3: book from a place of love for our community and
Speaker 3: my belief in what our community can achieve. I also
Speaker 3: wanted to write this book for people who feel extremely
Speaker 3: lonely and lost. I want this book to be your companion.
Speaker 3: You got my voice in your hair, you are not
Speaker 3: You got an advocate. I also want readers to take
Speaker 3: away from this book that they begin to identify and
Speaker 3: ask themselves from reflection questions. Every chapter ends with deep
Speaker 3: reflection questions that really moves you to action. Because by
Speaker 3: the time we make it to chapter eight, the way
Speaker 3: that you're thinking, the way that you're moving, I hope
Speaker 3: will change or evolve or being handsd. But what I'm
Speaker 3: hoping the biggest, biggest, biggest takeaway, Doctor Joy, I want
Speaker 3: the readers to know that the stuff that I'm talking
Speaker 3: about this is not something that can happen thirty forty
Speaker 3: years from now.
Speaker 2: It can happen now.
Speaker 3: It's just a sum of our daily choices that we
Speaker 3: can experience the warmth of our community now. It depends
Speaker 3: on how we decide to move. It depends on how
Speaker 3: the steps that we take to heal. And so this
Speaker 3: book for me is a love offering from the center
Speaker 3: place of my heart. I believe so much in our community.
Speaker 3: I see us, and I only leave inspire. I have
Speaker 3: goose bumps when I think about the goodness that we
Speaker 3: possess as a collective in what is possible if we
Speaker 3: operate as one moving body towards with the same values,
Speaker 3: in the same way that we decide this is the
Speaker 3: way we're gonna treat each other. This is the way
Speaker 3: that we're going to operate and take care of the body.
Speaker 3: When we build businesses, we're gonna make sure that we
Speaker 3: treat people well who decide to be on our team
Speaker 3: with us. All of that is a palm of our choices.
Speaker 1: I think that many people will leave very inspired and
Speaker 1: move to action, as you hope they will.
Speaker 2: They read it.
Speaker 1: So let us know where we can stay connected with you,
Speaker 1: and where can we get our copy of No One
Speaker 1: Is Self Made?
Speaker 3: No One Is Self Made is available everywhere books are sold,
Speaker 3: so all those major major retailers. I also want you
Speaker 3: to check with your local bookstores. Shout out to local
Speaker 3: but you can go to No One at Self Made
Speaker 3: dot com no Www, No One at Self Made dot Com.
Speaker 3: You can learn a little bit more about the book
Speaker 3: and you can purchase the book. Y'all purchase the book.
Speaker 3: If you want to join me on tour, it's laid
Speaker 3: out there. I hope to see you in real time.
Speaker 3: And if you want to keep up with me on
Speaker 3: social it's doctor Keith Hallman. I spend the most time
Speaker 3: on Instagram and a little time on LinkedIn, but I
Speaker 3: hope to be able to connect with you as you
Speaker 3: read the book and Doctor Joy, I wish I want
Speaker 3: to tell you thank you. Thank you for being my friend,
Speaker 3: thank you for being my sister. And when you all
Speaker 3: read the book you will see what I mean that
Speaker 3: Doctor Joy is is sisterhood and action. But you got
Speaker 3: to read the book to see what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Such a little call outs and E says there, But
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I appreciate you joining me and
Speaker 1: do hope again that people will go out and grab
Speaker 1: their copy of No One Is Self Made. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being here. I'm so glad Doctor Key was able
Speaker 1: to join me for this conversation to learn more about
Speaker 1: her or to grab a copy of No One Is
Speaker 1: Self Made. Check out the show notes at Therapy for
Speaker 1: Blackgirls dot com slash Session three ninety eight, and don't
Speaker 1: forget to text this episode to two of your girls
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Did you know?
Speaker 1: You can leave us a voicemail with your questions for
Speaker 1: the podcast. If you want to suggest other movies or
Speaker 1: books for us to review, or even give us thoughts
Speaker 1: around topics you'd like to hear discussed on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Drop us a message at Memo dot fm slash Therapy
Speaker 1: for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind.
Speaker 1: We might just answer your question on the podcast asked.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit
Speaker 1: our therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash directory.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Elise Ellis and Tyree Rush.
Speaker 1: Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much
Speaker 1: for joining me again this week. I look forward to
Speaker 1: continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,