1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy. 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 2: The process of therapy is kind of like looking in 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 2: a mirror somebody sitting across from you and helping you 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: see what you can't see about yourself. 5 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 3: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 3: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 4: If you can die before you die, then you can 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 4: really live. 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: There's a wisdom at death's door. 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: I thought I was insane. 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I didn't know what to do because there 14 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: was no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I 15 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: feel like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And 17 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others, 19 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to you need therapy. Okay, 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: So I'm here today with our returning returning, returning permanent guest. 21 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: You're a permanent guest, Tarah. Welcome. How are you doing? 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: I'm doing well. So we have a couple things we're 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: going to chat with you guys about, and two of 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: them have nothing to do with each other, so we'll 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: just get to that later. But we want to start 26 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: talking about you know, Tara and I started this recurring series, Yes, 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: the series called The Difference Between where we will talk 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: about something that is related to mental health or therapy 29 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: and then look at how it has kind of been 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: misshapen through is that a word? It is? Shape? Okay, 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: misshapen through pop culture in the world, and then talk 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: about the difference between how people are seeing it and 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: how it's talked about now versus what the true inherent 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: meaning is. And you know, something that we haven't talked about, 35 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: which seems a little like we're backtracking, is we haven't 36 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: actually talked about what is therapy versus what we are 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: saying it is on the TikTok and the Instagram and 38 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 1: all of that. So, yeah, movies, TV shows, which I'm 39 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: not going to give a spoiler. I'm gonna try not to, 40 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: but just in case I do, this is my warning 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: that I have no idea what's about to come out 42 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: of my mouth. But there's a new show called Shrinking, 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: and I've watched all the update episodes. I think there's four. 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: I think ye Apple Apple TV. You've watched three. Yes, 45 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: And I've got to say it's a good show, right, 46 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: It's a great show. 47 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: It's great TV Starcast, it's great TV. 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: You're great. I'm gonna ask you what your initial response 49 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: was when you were watching it. But when I was 50 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: watching it, you know, shrinking. It's about therapists. And I 51 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: was sitting there watching the show about this therapist who 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: lacks many important boundaries between him and his client clients, 53 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,119 Speaker 1: and I had some moments where I was like, dang, 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: that was smart, and then I like a couple of 55 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: seconds that I'm like, stop it, No, that's not smart. 56 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: We can't do that. And I kept having this experience 57 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: of like almost like a longing to be able to 58 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 1: do some of these things, because in the moment they 59 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: seem pretty cool and like, oh, that's that was actually 60 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: really creative idea to get that client out of their 61 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: comfort zone or out of their box and kind of whatever. 62 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: But then as you keep watching the show, you're reminded 63 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: why we do have certain boundaries, and this is a 64 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: TV show, so they can curate how they want things 65 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: to go, so they might be doing something that's really 66 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: kind of dangerous, but they can like make it work 67 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: just right. So when you were watching it, what did 68 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: you think? 69 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 4: I mean, I had a lot of those same reactions 70 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 4: where I was like, Okay, yeah, be a real person, right, Yeah, 71 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 4: as a therapist, sit in front of this person, like 72 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 4: you're a real person, and you're like I can't take this, 73 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 4: Like this is so bad. What's going like? You keep 74 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 4: doing the same thing. You've got to stop doing the 75 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 4: same thing or whatever. And then also just this awareness 76 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 4: of like absolutely not that, like I know why, I 77 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 4: know why immediately we don't do those things. 78 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: This is where there might be a spoiler, So if 79 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: you haven't watched the show yet, I don't think it's 80 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: really giving anything away. But there's this there's a couple 81 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: of clients that it follows, and we've all, well most 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: therapists I think I have, and I'm pretty sure you have. 83 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: I've had clients where we just want to be like, 84 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, just do this and everything will be better. Yeah, 85 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever actually done that. Yeah, And 86 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: in this show, he has the therapist has a breaking 87 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: point where he's just and it has to do with 88 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: his own stuff and his own stressors in life. What's 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: funny is you see the immediate response is that it 90 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: made everything better. And then as the show goes on, 91 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: more information is revealed, and you'll see why we don't 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: tell people what to do. You've had clients where you've 93 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: wanted to do that, and so what keeps you from 94 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: just being like, oh, my gosh, have you seen because 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: I said so, it's a movie with Yeah, it was 96 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: like years ago. It was very old, not very old, 97 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,799 Speaker 1: but it's old. Diane Keaton or yes, yes, yes, yeah, 98 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: and Lorlai Gilmour. I don't know what her name is 99 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: her real name. So she's a therapist and she has 100 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: a client that is like talking about I think it 101 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: must be suicide, and she has a breaking point. I 102 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: think she needs to like get somewhere or something. I 103 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: don't know, but she looks at the client she said, 104 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,279 Speaker 1: you've been talking about this. You've been talking about killing 105 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: yourself for years in my office, So either do it 106 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: or don't something like that. It was something along the 107 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: lines of that, and in the moment, if you're watching that, 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you know, she's telling him like it 109 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: is and he's getting some tough love and hopefully that 110 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: will make him better. And in the show, I think 111 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: it does like make him better, but you can't say that. 112 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: I would never say that to somebody. But it's interesting 113 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: because in the movie, again it works out because they 114 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: can curate it to work out, and those aren't real 115 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: people with real life circumstances and real stressors, and there's 116 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: not a real story behind why he might be feeling 117 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: that that you're connected to. So I just wanted to 118 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: start before we get into like what we think therapy 119 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: is versus what it is. We can start with what 120 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: it's not according to TV shows, Are there any shows 121 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: that you think portray it? 122 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 4: Well, there's maybe a couple of things I've seen, like 123 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 4: in the middle midst of a show, you know, not 124 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 4: where it was about therapy, but where someone went and 125 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 4: there were a couple of obscure parts where it wasn't 126 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 4: the whole part of the movie or the show, but 127 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 4: it happened in the midst of it, and I thought, oh, 128 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 4: they did a pretty decent job maybe with this particular moment. 129 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 4: I mean, actually, there's that show Jenny and George on Netflix. 130 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: I've never seen. 131 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 4: Oh, it's just a silly, little dramedy teen family situation. 132 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 4: But the girl, she's like fifteen or something. She's self 133 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 4: harming and she goes to therapy, and I actually think 134 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 4: her therapist is a pretty good accurate representation. And there's 135 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 4: even a moment where her mom like shows up the 136 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 4: therapist that know her mom was coming, and she says 137 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 4: in front of the mom to her, that's not how 138 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 4: this works. This is her time to the client who's 139 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: an adolescent, you know. And I just think she does 140 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 4: a great job. She's pretty accurate. It's like basic kind 141 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 4: of talk therapy stuff. But that's like one scene where 142 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, Okay, this is a good way 143 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 4: of handling this moment, you know. But there's a lot 144 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: that are weird and yeah, or. 145 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: It's like oversimplified, yes, and in shrinking what is interesting. 146 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: And I would love to hear people's interpretation that are 147 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: watching this, whether you guys are are just normal folk 148 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: not therapists professionally, or whether a therapist and what comes up. 149 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: But it's interesting because they have three therapists in this show, 150 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: and one of them is like very like buy the book, 151 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: very boundaried, very like regulated, no emotion, like the blank slate, 152 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: and then there's the one that has no regulation, and 153 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: then I don't really know much about the other one. 154 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 4: We haven't seen her as a therapist. We've only seen 155 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 4: her as like my human. 156 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: Which she seems cool. But I think that's really interesting 157 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: because it's like there are these two ways to be 158 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: like over the top, like no boundaries, like you don't 159 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of thought about what your behaviors are 160 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: and how they're gonna impact your clients, versus I have 161 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: every single wall up that I could put up as 162 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: a therapist, and I'm using them all at once. 163 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 4: One of the things I think that comes up in 164 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 4: TV and also just maybe in people's sort of stereotypical 165 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 4: view of what happens in therapy is the therapist sit 166 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 4: across from me, nods, says mmm, makes little noises, and 167 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 4: then ask me what I feel about everything. 168 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: I say, how did that make you feel? Exactly? 169 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 4: And that's it. They don't ever tell me anything. They 170 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 4: don't ever you know, no information, right, They just that's 171 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: all that's happening the whole time. And I think that 172 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 4: that's what I would say, that's not what therapy is. Also, 173 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 4: maybe a good caveat or disclaimer would be this may 174 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 4: be what some some of the things we say that 175 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: is not what therapy is supposed to be, might be 176 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 4: what some therapists are doing. 177 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: And wait, that's what my therapist does. 178 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it might be what is happening. Hopefully that's 179 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 4: not the only thing that's happening. I mean, maybe that's 180 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 4: what we're saying right now. And if it is, then 181 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 4: I think there's some skills. 182 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: Lacking have you had, because I've had clients that have 183 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: come to me and I'm like, I always ask about 184 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: their previous therapy and what they liked, what they didn't like, 185 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of what I hear what people don't 186 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: like is I just felt like my therapist just sat 187 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: there and she didn't really or he didn't really say anything, 188 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: and I'm looking for a little bit more information, like 189 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: I just want some help, I want some guidance sometimes 190 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: and it was just like if I wasn't talking, they 191 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: would just like stare at me. And I wonder if 192 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: that is a product of how therapy just is. It's 193 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: always evolving. And when I was in school, we were 194 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: taught very basic skills, and I went into being a 195 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: therapist with those very basic skills and if you don't 196 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: know anything different, how are you gonna do anything different? 197 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: But what was helpful for me as a therapist in 198 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: training is I got to see other therapists not be 199 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: that way. So I got to see therapists you self disclosure. 200 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: I got to see therapists ask questions, which is something 201 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: that some people are like, don't you shouldn't be asking questions. 202 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: And it's like, well, sometimes that's helpful, and so I 203 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: got to see that and so that then I got 204 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: to weave things together. But I think some people don't. 205 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: It's like that's what they're taught. Paraphrase, repeat back. Yeah. 206 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 4: I mean there's probably a million reasons like why people 207 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 4: have you know, a very specific or a more monolithic 208 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 4: set of skills, And that's again, that's not wrong. Actually, 209 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 4: I think a lot of people would go into a 210 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:07,079 Speaker 4: therapy experience and just have them you know, being attentive, 211 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: reflecting back and saying how do you feel, and would 212 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 4: get a lot out of that because you feel very 213 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 4: seen and someone is just with you without needing anything 214 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 4: from you. Like those two things are very powerful for 215 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 4: human beings to experience. And so I think again, like 216 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 4: it worked because it was giving people that thing that 217 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 4: you need. And you know, I think there's always been 218 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 4: people who were probably pushing the envelope on development and 219 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 4: trying to do in different things. And you know, just 220 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 4: like everything, just like all sciences and medicine and everything, 221 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 4: it's grown and it's evolved, and we see that there's 222 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 4: a lot of different ways to do it, and so 223 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 4: I do think it is growing with the times sort 224 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 4: of thing where that is different than what it was. 225 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, what I want to do is I want to 226 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: read some of these responses that I got, because I 227 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: think what you just said was there's more more than 228 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: one way to be a therapist, and there's more than 229 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: one way to experience therapy. People go to therapy for 230 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: more than one thing, and so that's going to then 231 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: have impact on how a therapist might show up. And 232 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be just this one extreme or 233 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: the other. It's allowed to be a lot of combinations 234 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: of both of those things inter woven plus other things. 235 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll just say off top, like some of the 236 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 4: what I when I think about what is what I 237 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 4: would like for therapy to not be or what I 238 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 4: don't think therapy is in my experiences it's not someone 239 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 4: just asking you how you feel all the time. It's 240 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 4: not someone giving you the answers, giving you advice or 241 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 4: telling you what to do with your problems. And it's 242 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 4: also not just someone to talk to. 243 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: Can I add one, Yeah, it's not just somebody to 244 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: make you feel better, because I think that's a part 245 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: that like my therapist is such a blah blah blah. 246 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: I went to go feel better about this thing, and 247 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: they if you don't get the feedback that, it's like 248 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: not what is it? That was that movie called the 249 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: documentary that Jonah Hill did stut Okay, So I didn't 250 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: watch the whole thing, which I will. I do need 251 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: to finish it. I got a little bored, you know 252 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: sometimes when see that's why shrinking such a good show, 253 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: because real therapy is not that interesting all the time, 254 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: all the time. It was not your therapy session. But 255 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: I sometimes I get overstimulated with that. I like to 256 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: like actually not be watching a documentary on something that 257 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: I do all day. It's like, idn't want to watch 258 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: a documentary on like dinosaurs or something. Well not really, 259 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. I do so So 260 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,559 Speaker 1: anyway he said in there, I gotta make sure I 261 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: say this right. He said. It's very interesting because therapists 262 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: aren't going to just tell you what to do. They 263 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: don't give you advice. But it's weird because we go 264 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: to our friends and we get advice, and we go 265 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: to therapist and they, I don't know, help us figure 266 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 1: it out. And you want it to be the opposite, 267 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: Like you want to like go to your friends and 268 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: should just be able to like speak freely. But I 269 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: think that's important to note that, like a therapist isn't 270 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: there to tell you what to do, but they're also 271 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: not there just to make you feel better. And that's 272 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: good to have that understanding all those things that you 273 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: said before you go into an experience of therapy. So 274 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to read these things that you guys said. 275 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: I asked on Instagram, like how what do you think 276 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: therapy is? How would you define it? If you were 277 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: like telling a friend that had never been before or 278 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: never heard of it before, what would you say? And 279 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: I got some interesting, some funny responses, So I'm going 280 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: to read some. Some of them are kind of similar, 281 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: so I won't read them all. One of my favorite 282 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: ones was a response I didn't know you could do this, 283 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: but this person just sent me a song and they 284 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: sent me Man in the Mirror, I'm Michael Jackson, which 285 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: I was like, that's pretty creative. And that same person 286 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: also said it's your safe space, which I like. One 287 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: person said, talking to someone about all the weird stuff 288 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: going on in your head and why it's going on, 289 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: a safe, caring, non judgmental space where all feelings are 290 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: welcomed to be explored. And then that same person was like, 291 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: there's actually not enough space in here to tell you 292 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: what I really want to say. So I'm sure that 293 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: person had to like condense that a place to help 294 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: and give you tools to make sense of chaos and 295 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: confusion that can give you hope where you can share 296 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: emotions with a neutral, andsightful human to help process plus heal. 297 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: I really like when people say, like to help process, 298 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: I'm not processing for you, I'm helping kind of guide that, 299 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: two people said. One person gave more detail on this, 300 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: but I don't watch Desperate Housewives. Desperate Housewives, that's the 301 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: that's different than Real Housewives. Okay, Desert Houses that show 302 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: that was on a long time ago. Did you watch that? 303 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: No? 304 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: Okay, well, apparently One of the characters said, therapy is 305 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: like a talk show where I'm the guest and the 306 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: only topic is me, which is like kind of right, 307 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: that's great, that's hilarious, a safe space to get all 308 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: your stuff out. This person said validation and a little 309 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: and little tidbits of feedback that make you say, wow, 310 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: what do you think about that? Like therapy being a 311 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: place to be validated? Is that fit well? 312 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 4: I think validation might be understood in some different ways, 313 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 4: or it can mean different things, Like your experience of 314 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: something is always valid because it is your experience. What 315 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 4: you do with it is a different story, I think, right, 316 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 4: Like your behavior isn't always valid. My behavior isn't always valid. 317 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: What's happening internally in my experience of something? Sure, it's valid, 318 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 4: it's my experience. 319 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: It's valid enough for me to be with it, to 320 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: dig into it. Can't like you're not having that experience. 321 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: I literally am that's right, that's right. 322 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 4: So I think about it just as valid, not necessarily right. 323 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 4: The way we think about things being right or wrong. 324 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: I say a lot of times like, yeah, that is 325 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: totally valid, one hundred percent, But that doesn't lead to justification. 326 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: Those things can be a little different. They can both 327 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: be true but also can be different. Somebody else said, 328 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: a place to sort, de escalate, and find clarity. A 329 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: place where you can learn coping strategies for the struggles 330 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: in your life. A space to hold a space to 331 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: hold space for whatever you were feeling a need in 332 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: that moment, an unbiased opinion about how to best process 333 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: life and experiences. You got some good answers. You guys 334 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: are so smart. I really want to find one that 335 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's not right. So I was thinking, okay. 336 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: So I recently had a little debate with a friend 337 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: of mine because he said I forgot what pole i'd 338 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: put up. Oh, I put up a pole on Instagram 339 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: that was like, I was watching Parks and rec and 340 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: I have never watched it before. I'm new to it, 341 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: and I love New Girls. I put a pole and 342 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: I was like, you can only save one, and you 343 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: had to pick one, and it was way skewed towards 344 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: New Girl. And my friend was like, well, that's because 345 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: your followers are biased, because the people that follow you 346 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: are people that are going to be more like you. 347 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: And I was like that's not true, which like, is 348 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: the algorithm is that what she's saying, Well, well maybe, 349 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: but really they I think they were saying, like, if 350 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: people follow you, they're more likely to have your opinion 351 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 1: because they're following you because they like something about you, 352 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: or you were like them like I don't have a 353 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: lot of I don't have a lot of men follow me, 354 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: or my following isn't highly into sports, like they might 355 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: be into sports, but I'm not a sports person, so 356 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: people aren't following me that for that. So I put 357 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: all these other polls up and you guys might have 358 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: noticed this if you followed me. But I had some 359 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: random polls one night and it was just to test 360 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: that out. It was like would you rather go to 361 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: the mountains or an all inclusive resort or something like that, 362 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: or a beer or wine or there's another one, and 363 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: all of them were like highly favored one way or 364 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: the other. And I was just thinking in my head, 365 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: this doesn't mean anything, This doesn't confirm your opinion. But 366 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: it does. And so that why I think maybe a 367 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: lot of the people that are following me have real 368 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: experiences with therapists. You guys might listen to the podcast, 369 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: so you have more understanding that. So maybe I should 370 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: widen my search. I need to go stawn the street 371 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: and ask people what they think it is, because don't 372 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: you think a lot of people really would be like, 373 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: it's a place to get advice, tell you what to do. 374 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 4: I know a lot of people who have never been 375 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 4: to therapy, and that is I'm pretty sure what they 376 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 4: think it is advice or just someone to talk to. 377 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 4: And they're like, I already talked to people. 378 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: What am I going to get out of therapy that 379 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 1: I can't get from a friend or the whole I 380 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: don't really need therapy. I'm not having an extreme mental 381 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: health crisis. 382 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 4: Yes, I'm mostly okay. It's like I need to be 383 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 4: having a heart attack before I got the doctor's sort 384 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 4: of mentality. 385 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: Yes, very interesting. So we're going to play you two 386 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: clips of therapists that are not Tara or I explaining 387 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: their idea, an interpretation of what therapy is and what 388 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: the process of therapy is. One is much more detailed 389 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: than the other, which I really like because they can 390 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: be detailed and it can be really simple depending on 391 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: how you really want to cut it up. So let's 392 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: start the longer one. 393 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 394 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is Hannah Owens, who has been on the 395 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 4: podcast before She's a therapist in Nashville. 396 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: Therapy is the brave step of saying I need help, 397 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 2: and then the process of therapy is kind of like 398 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: looking in a mirror somebody sitting across from you and 399 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: helping you see what you can't see about yourself, or 400 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: helping clean the mirror so that you can see yourself 401 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: more clearly, whether that's understanding and processing emotions or negative 402 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: thoughts or relationships. And therapy can include healing things from 403 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 2: the past, adjusting or changing things in the present, giving 404 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 2: you skills to manage the stress or the symptoms that 405 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: you have, and you can work on all sorts of 406 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 2: things from how do I deal with my anxiety when 407 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 2: it comes up to how do I have healthy relationships? 408 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: To what are my values? How do I connect spiritually? 409 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: Who am I? All of those things can be addressed 410 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 2: in therapy in the process of having someone come alongside 411 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: you and getting to know yourself and identifying what steps 412 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 2: you need to take to become more of who you are. 413 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: I really liked when she said clean the mirror. It's 414 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: like a mirror and then sometimes we help you clean 415 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: the mirror. 416 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: That's good. 417 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, we have used that in our group before, Hannah 418 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 4: and I that in an experiential too, where you know, 419 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 4: life is happening to all of us, and life the 420 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 4: thing that's reflecting back to ourselves through relationships, through experiences, 421 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 4: we start to make interpretations about ourselves based on what's 422 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 4: happening out there. Right, So, like you know, my parents 423 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 4: never come to my game, that's a thing out there, 424 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 4: a mirror. I see myself through that. What do I 425 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 4: see about myself in that action? I see that I'm 426 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 4: not very important or I'm not supported or so on 427 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 4: my mirror, I start to see that kind of stuff 428 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 4: about myself. I'm not important. And so when you come 429 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 4: to therapy you try to find where did that actually 430 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 4: come from? What is the truth about that experience, and 431 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 4: how can we start to write a more clear truth 432 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 4: that isn't necessarily something that is negative meaning about you? 433 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 4: So yeah, I love that one too. It's a great image. 434 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: I was talking to a newer client recently and I 435 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: talk about stories, cut or metaphors a lot, and it 436 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: is so like that metaphor of what therapy is is 437 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: so powerful that just giving a definition of the actual 438 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: thing it doesn't get as deep. 439 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 4: You know, for sure, Well, essentially that's attachment theory, right, yes, 440 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 4: but if we were to read the definition of attachment. 441 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: What uh huh and that I like that because yeah, 442 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,239 Speaker 1: those the words that are in a definition don't have 443 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: as much of a landing a soft landing as Oh 444 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: I know what that means in the experience of looking 445 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: in a mirror, and I know that different mirrors can 446 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: do this and that. Wow. Yeah, yeah, I love them. Interesting. Okay, 447 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: let's listen to the other one. 448 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 4: So this is Amandamorrow who's also a therapist. 449 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: That we know. 450 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 5: Therapy is the process of using a single person or 451 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 5: a group to work through events, feelings, beliefs, values in 452 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 5: a person's life that is either holding them back or 453 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 5: helping to move them forward. 454 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: Much more simple. Yeah, so yeah, I like both of those. 455 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: They essentially are saying very similar things, one with different 456 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: just different language. Yeah, I wrote one. Okay, let's hear it. 457 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: It's also I tried to. 458 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 4: I was like, if I were to make this really succinct, 459 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 4: if I were to have to like not ramble on 460 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 4: about it for five sentences, what would I say? 461 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because I think was that hard? 462 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 4: I mean, I yeah, I had it was hard. 463 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: If you know me, then yes, But. 464 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 4: I think part of where I went with it was 465 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 4: also some of what brought this up for me, which 466 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 4: was what did people actually think I'm doing? You know, 467 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 4: I wasn't also thinking like what am I experiencing as 468 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 4: the client? But like what do people think I'm doing 469 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 4: in the room? Because if people just think I'm sitting 470 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 4: there asking people how they feel, like, I'm insulted. 471 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: If people just think of like only I mean, like 472 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: random people in the world, I'm a therapist, what do 473 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: people think you? Yeah? Well, what okay, before you say that, 474 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: let's talk about this. When you tell somebody you're a therapist, 475 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: what's the response you get? Usually? 476 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 4: Oh wow, isn't that hard? Yep, that's a big one. 477 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: There's how do you leave it? 478 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 4: Like don't you think of more about people and worry 479 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 4: about people all the time? Those are two big ones. 480 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: One that bothers me is oh, I bet you're just 481 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: psychoanalyzing everything that we're Oh yes, that's the third. Yes, 482 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: like psychoanalyzing me right now? You're right, I'm just all 483 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: over the place of judging you and trying to figure 484 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: out how I can, like, you know, get in there 485 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: and tell you that everything you're doing wrong when really 486 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: it's I'm just being a person. Yes, that's right, But 487 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times when I think about 488 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: what people think I'm doing, it is like, oh, you 489 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: must just sit there and listen to people talk about 490 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: hard stuff all day and you just like rub them 491 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 1: on the back and pat them on the leg. And 492 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: I'm like, little, do you know? We really aren't supposed 493 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: touch our clients, right, But yeah, so what did you 494 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: end up writing? 495 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 4: I wrote it kind of in the perspective of what 496 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 4: is the therapist. 497 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: Rather than like what is therapy? Which I think speaks 498 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: to both. 499 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 4: So the therapist is a person with specific skills help 500 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 4: a person think and feel and find their way through 501 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 4: experiences in life that a person can't seem to find 502 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 4: their way through on their own with their own best efforts. 503 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to start with the first sentence. Was 504 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: that one sentence? Yeah? Okay, so I got to start 505 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: with the first long one. A therapist a person with 506 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: specific skills. Yes, I like that. I feel like because 507 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: a therapist is not just somebody who, like you know, 508 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: likes to listen and I had to learn how to 509 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: be a therapist. It wasn't like I want to be one, 510 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: so I'm going to just go to the school, get 511 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: the certificate, and then be It's like, now you learn 512 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: skills that are specific to then do what a therapist does. 513 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: That's why a therapist and a coach are also different, 514 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: and your friend and your friends are different any but 515 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: everybody's different. And then read the second half that. 516 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 4: Helps a person think, feel and find their way through 517 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 4: experience is that they haven't been able to find their 518 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 4: way through with their own best efforts. 519 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: Okay, I love that we're helping somebody do all these things, 520 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: so we're not doing it for them. We're not telling 521 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: them exactly what to do. We're helping them do these 522 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: things that they might have tried to do on their own, 523 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: but some of the things that nobody can do completely 524 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: on their own. That were so it's not even about 525 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: the lack of ability per person. I like that. Yeah, 526 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: you know when you said, I wrote it from the 527 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: perspective of what somebody thinks I'm doing versus what a 528 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: client thinks I'm doing. I think I get more. I 529 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: don't know if concerned is the right word, but I 530 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: think more about what a client thinks I'm supposed to 531 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,959 Speaker 1: do than what a random person thinks I'm doing, because 532 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I don't really know what you do 533 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 1: at work either, and I have respect for that. There 534 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: is probably some skill involved. Like Patrick, who's an accountant, 535 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: I don't understand anything he talks about, and maybe I 536 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: could understand it better. I probably should listen to him 537 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: with a more open ear. So I'm less concerned about 538 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, just because I don't find myself 539 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: as concerned with that stuff. But I am more concerned 540 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: with when somebody walks into my office, what are they 541 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: expecting of me? Versus like, what am I actually here 542 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: to give them? And I think that it is worth 543 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: having this conversation just so people who go to therapy know, 544 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: Like when I go into therapy, if I am getting 545 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: somebody who's just like here, one, two, three steps, go 546 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: do them and come back, you might not be getting therapy. 547 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: You might just be getting like some I don't know, 548 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: i'd call that advice. Yeah, it's just like advice some coaching. 549 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: I think coaching is very different than therapy. Yeah. 550 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was thinking about this as we were talking, 551 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 4: and you were you were saying about the shrinking thing 552 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 4: to come back to that, Why wouldn't I, you know, 553 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 4: as a therapist engage in some of those like lack 554 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 4: of boundary things like you know, just telling a person, look, 555 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 4: you just need to break up with that person, they're 556 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 4: an asshole, or let me go help you with this 557 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 4: ex situation that you're really scared about. Let me go 558 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 4: go with you, and I'm gonna help you, and then 559 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 4: we're gonna debrief. And one of the biggest reasons that 560 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 4: I'm thinking of right now that I wouldn't do that 561 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 4: is because the reason therapy is so effective for people 562 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 4: to really be able to drop into themselves is because 563 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 4: they are not it's not a mutual relationship, whereas I 564 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 4: don't bring any of me into the room that isn't 565 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 4: my professional self, Like I'm a person that all the 566 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 4: rest of the people in my life that I'm in 567 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 4: personal relationships with know a whole bunch of what's going 568 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 4: on inside about my life and my feelings about my things. 569 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: And what makes. 570 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 4: Therapy such a fulfilling and like life giving and energy 571 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 4: filling experience for clients is they don't have to hold 572 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 4: that for me at all. And if I start to 573 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 4: do some of those things. I've tipped those skills into 574 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 4: varying degrees. If I start to move myself as a person, 575 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 4: not a professional, because my personal self might say to 576 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 4: someone that guy's an asshole. 577 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: I wish you would leave him. Yes, as a. 578 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 4: Person, I would feel that way, and I might say 579 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 4: that to a friend. 580 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: But that's my. 581 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 4: Shit, really, really, that's mine, And until you get there 582 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 4: in yourself. I can invite that for you. I can 583 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 4: give permission for you to do that. I can try 584 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 4: to move blocks out of the way that we might find. 585 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 4: But that's mine and I can't just hand it to you. 586 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's you getting the client to a place 587 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: that you think they would want to be, which is 588 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: we can't. I don't know that. I was talking recently 589 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: to somebody about a relationship, and and you know so 590 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: many so often people are like, should I break up 591 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: with them? Should I not? Should I do this? And 592 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: it's okay, Well, let's talk about me telling you yes 593 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: or no would be my again, personal idea of what 594 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: would bring you the most happiness. But that is that 595 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: I'm seeing that through my lens of what would bring 596 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: me the most happiness. Yes, And so if I said yeah, 597 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: you should. I don't know if that's actually what you're 598 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: being in your body and you as a person, who 599 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: you are and the things that come with you, If 600 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,479 Speaker 1: that actually would bring you that happiness, it would make 601 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: me happier. But we're not talking about my relationships, right, 602 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: and so it's a very interesting and like I'm not 603 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,719 Speaker 1: always the best at it. Sometimes I have to be 604 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 1: like WHOA, maybe you shouldn't have said that, or maybe 605 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: like hmm, you gave too much, or I mean, I'm 606 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: constantly making sure that I am staying in the lines 607 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: that I want to stay in and when I don't. 608 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: What's really nice is we have this thing called repair, 609 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: well we can apologize to our clients and say like, hey, 610 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: I messed up. I realized that this was not about whatever. 611 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 1: But with like stuff like self disclosure and sharing something, 612 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: I find myself as a very relational therapist. But I'm 613 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: not telling you so much about, you know, the conversation 614 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: my boyfriend and I had the night before about our 615 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: future plans, because like that's weighing on me. I'm probably 616 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: not going to tell you the conversation I had about 617 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: future with my boyfriend at all, but I think sometimes 618 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: that can get confusing where we want to relate, and 619 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: that's why a lot of times clients they want to 620 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: be like, how are you, like, what's going on? Like, 621 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: and I'll just be like, I'm good, let's get into it. Yeah, 622 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: I feel like we only talk about me. It's like, well, 623 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: because if I told you what's going on in my life, 624 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: you probably would be sitting here thinking about how I'm 625 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: thinking about you versus which they're already doing that anyway, Yeah, 626 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: or my life instead of your life, yes, yeah, be 627 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: worried about me, yeah, and how I'm feeling. And if 628 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: I told you, like, let's say I had a fight 629 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: with my boyfriend and I moved out and all this stuff, 630 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: which he would be moving out because I own this house. 631 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: But still then they would be like, oh my gosh, 632 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 1: do you need to take the day off. I do 633 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: not want my clients worrying about how I'm doing. I'm 634 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: good and I will go take care of myself. 635 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean self disclosure and transparency stuff is where 636 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 4: it gets really. That's where the Harrison Ford versus yes, Jason. 637 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: What's this thing? Gets blurred? Like there that's the. 638 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 4: In between, you know, and I am definitely not a 639 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 4: therapist who doesn't ever self disclose, and I am one 640 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 4: who does that with a lot of thought and intention 641 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 4: and so. 642 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: And every client is getting something different based on that client. 643 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: That's right. That I think is what's really important is 644 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: that I might look really rigid to one client. I 645 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: might look more like a Harrison Ford to one client. 646 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: Other client might be like, oh, I would say, she's 647 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: more like Jason Siegel. And that has a lot to 648 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: do with our ability to make judgments, clinical judgments based 649 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,719 Speaker 1: on what the client's needs, which goes back to I 650 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: don't know if this was one of the first conversations 651 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: we had, but we had a conversation about that post 652 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: that a therapist had put up about if your therapist 653 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: won't tell you their political views, Dear God. That really 654 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: boiled my blood. And part of that is because we 655 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: have the ability to make clinical judgments based on the 656 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: skills that we have, that's right. That's right. 657 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 4: It's my job to manage those parts of myself enough 658 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 4: to where everything I'm doing is working in the best 659 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 4: interest of you and your needs. Yeah, so there's a 660 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 4: lot of, you know, things that we have to navigate 661 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 4: through and around to do that, but it's our job 662 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 4: to do that very thoughtfully and carefully. And you know, 663 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 4: I might sometimes to certain clients using that scenario of 664 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 4: you know, just leave him, he's an asshole. I might 665 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 4: sometimes instead say something like, I am feeling so sad 666 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,399 Speaker 4: that you were talk to like that, because like you're 667 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 4: a really incredible human being. 668 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's like that. 669 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 4: There is I'm a human right and you can I'm 670 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 4: with you, And there is a bit of like, I 671 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 4: just shared something about my own feeling, but it was 672 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 4: in reference to you, and it was in the context 673 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 4: of we have a relationship. It's an a casional one, 674 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 4: but I still care about it. I can speak about 675 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 4: our relationship professionally in that kind of way that is 676 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 4: also intimate and meaningful. 677 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: So there's way I like that. I really like that 678 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: you just said that, because I, yeah, I don't want, 679 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: especially if there's therapists out there listening, like you're allowed 680 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: to share what comes up for you in that space, 681 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: but you're not sharing. Oh that makes me sad because 682 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: it reminds me of that this one time that this 683 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: person did this to me, and I just want you 684 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: to stand up for yourself so you're not feeling what 685 00:35:53,320 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: I felt back then. That's very different. Okay, now we're 686 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: going to switch gears. I told you one of the 687 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: things we were going to talk about has nothing to 688 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: do with what we just talked about, and it is 689 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: something that came up for me at work this week. 690 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: Because you will see on Instagram, Pinterest, TikTok, Facebook, these 691 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: quotes or these I mean, you'll even hear it. There's 692 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's podcasts just about this topic. You'll hear 693 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 1: people talk about boundaries and how no is a complete sentence, 694 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: and I do not think that always applies, which to 695 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: some people might be a hot take. Oh yes it is. No, 696 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: it's a complete sentence. You don't ever have to explain yourself. 697 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 1: So what comes up for you when I say that? 698 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you know, it's the just the always 699 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 4: never thing. This is what we get in trouble with 700 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 4: with throwing sentences out there like that. That's like, okay, 701 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 4: I want you know, we want to grab people's attention 702 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 4: and give them permission for a thing that is not 703 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 4: commonly talked about or said in such a way, but 704 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 4: it often leaves out that gray of it can be 705 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 4: a complete sentence, and there's a lot of things that 706 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 4: I would want to share more about. 707 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would, Yes, I would change this quote, and 708 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: I would say no is a complete sentence, and sometimes 709 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: it's kind to give more information. Yes, wordy, it's not 710 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: as catchy. It's not catchy. It's not as catchy. That's 711 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: not going to be the SoundBite that somebody's like, Ooh, 712 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: I can't wait to listen to that podcast because I 713 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: just said no, Sometimes it is a complete sentence, and 714 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: sometimes you need more information to be kind like it. 715 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's mind blowing. That came up for 716 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: me because I was talking with somebody who's more of 717 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: a people pleaser and they couldn't wrap their mind around 718 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: like I can't just if my friend's coming to me 719 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: needing something and I really don't have the capacity for it. 720 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: I just can't find myself just saying no, I don't 721 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: have time for you, or just no, hey can I 722 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: come over? I need to talk No. And I'm like, well, 723 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: because you would never say that, like you having boundaries 724 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: and you allowing yourself to take care of yourself doesn't 725 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: have to sound like that, Like what is another way 726 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: you can say like I don't have the space for that. 727 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you could say I don't have the space 728 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: for that right now. But you said something earlier when 729 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: I I was talking about that and you said, well, 730 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,280 Speaker 1: because that's rude. Yeah. 731 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, like I will wants to ask me, tell me, 732 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 4: asked me, and I'll just say it and. 733 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,879 Speaker 1: We'll let people know why. Okay, Yeah, guys, write down 734 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: your notes of what your observations are in this interaction. 735 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: So I'm having a really hard day. Can I come over? No? 736 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 4: No, it's a complete sentence, even before they finish theirs. 737 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: That's that's the hot take on. 738 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can say no before they act. But yeah, 739 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: I feel as a friend, I will say I just 740 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 3: felt really shut down. I'm very confused because one you 741 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 3: didn't even get to hear me out. 742 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't. Yeah, I'm I'm sitting here being 743 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: very confused and a little bit hurt. 744 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 4: I would say that this is not really a thing 745 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 4: that makes sense in intimate relationships. I think it makes 746 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 4: sense in dysfunctional relationships, in very boundaried relationships, and maybe 747 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 4: even like non personal like sort of professional like. It 748 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 4: doesn't feel like it makes sense in an intimate relate, 749 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 4: like an emotionally intimate, close and connected relationship. I think 750 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 4: you get to a point where you trust someone so 751 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 4: much where you can just say no. Like I've have 752 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 4: been with my partner for thirteen years, there's a lot 753 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 4: of stuff I can just be like no, and it's 754 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 4: not taken very personal at all because we know each 755 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 4: other and we know a whole bunch about everything that's 756 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 4: going on behind most of those no's, and so yeah, 757 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 4: but in intimacy, but I would say so much more. 758 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, like you talking to your 759 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: partner about that, like asking a question, They're going to 760 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: know also what's really going on in your life? Probably, 761 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, in some of these friendships it's I might say, 762 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: let's say a boss set emails me, can you stay 763 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: after work tomorrow and do blah blah blah. No, you 764 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,439 Speaker 1: don't have to give your boss an explanation of why 765 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: you cannot work overtime. You can just say no. Right, 766 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: But when your friend is having a moment and they're like, 767 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: do you have a second and you really don't, it 768 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,760 Speaker 1: might be really helpful to that friend, who you usually 769 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: are very available for, to hear why all of a 770 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: sudden you don't have time for them. 771 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 4: And I think this is where people probably get caught up, 772 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 4: is then what right? Then they go into an over 773 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 4: justification or they say, you know, instead of saying no, 774 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 4: they're like, well, I wish I could, but or I 775 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 4: don't know. 776 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: I have all this da da da da, I could 777 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: switch some things around, but met right now it's not 778 00:40:58,880 --> 00:40:59,439 Speaker 1: looking good. 779 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 4: It's that kind of in between of like I'm not 780 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 4: actually giving my answer directly. I'm not saying I can't 781 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 4: do that for you right now at all, because I'm 782 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 4: kind of avoiding it. I'm being a little bit passive 783 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 4: with how I'm saying. I'm busy, I have this, I 784 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,320 Speaker 4: have that I'll try and then I never get around 785 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 4: to it, and so I think it's not going in 786 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,439 Speaker 4: either direction. It's more of the middle line, you know, 787 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 4: of some people. 788 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,720 Speaker 1: Are like, wait, so can you or can you not? Yeah, yeah, 789 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 1: that's right. But it could be something like if I like, 790 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: what's a better way for me to ask, Hey, do 791 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,799 Speaker 1: you have time after we record this? I really have 792 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: something I need to talk about and I'm feeling really lost. 793 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 4: I don't have time today. I'm really sorry that I 794 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,879 Speaker 4: won't be able to sit with you for a little 795 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 4: bit longer to talk about that, I might say something 796 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 4: like I have an appointment right after this that I 797 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 4: have to make. I have had a really difficult day 798 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 4: at work and it kind of zapped my energy, so 799 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 4: I don't think i'll be able to show up very 800 00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 4: well for you. And then the great thing to throw 801 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 4: on the end of any now is can we find 802 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 4: another time? 803 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: Now? 804 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 4: That's if you if I want yeah, yeah, and I 805 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 4: actually do want to. 806 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that because I was thinking I would 807 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: say something like, I, I mean, I have an appointment 808 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 1: after this. I don't have the space. I'm so sorry 809 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 1: that you're going through that, and that can literally be it. Yeah, 810 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,919 Speaker 1: like I don't have the time. I wish I could 811 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: help you, because I think I mean, I'm not lying 812 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: in that if I had an appointment after this and 813 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: I couldn't, I wish I could be there for you 814 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: have an appointment. I'm really sorry you're going through that, 815 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: and thanks for even sharing what you did share. It 816 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: doesn't just have to be like no, I can't, I 817 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: gotta go, and then you run out the door. Yeah. 818 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: The reason I said, like, if you want to is 819 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: sometimes we say like, oh I can't, but but maybe 820 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: I can squeeze you in it this time. It's like 821 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: if you can't, you can't, And it's okay to say 822 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: that it's okay to disappoint somebody else. That's not what 823 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about. What I'm really talking about is like 824 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: we need to think about the people that were in 825 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: relationships with about like I mean that treat other people 826 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: how you want to be treated. I don't want you 827 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: to not let me finish my sentence, so I'm probably 828 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: gonna finish. I'm gonna let you finish your sentence, and 829 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a human being back to you. 830 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 4: I mean, I would even say it's okay for other 831 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 4: people to be disappointed, rather than it's okay for me 832 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 4: to disappoint them. 833 00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:25,439 Speaker 1: That's a little therapist, okay, because I didn't do anything wrong, right, 834 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: So I don't have to take ownership over their experience 835 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: of it. 836 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 4: It's just the reality of the situation. They have a 837 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 4: need I can't meet it. That probably does leave them 838 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 4: feeling like there's a loss of some kind. 839 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: And that's okay, And that's not my job. That's not 840 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: on me. 841 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's nice when I can, it's not my responsibility 842 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 4: when I can't. 843 00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: I like that, Actually it does tie in with what 844 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: we were talking about too, of just talking about boundaries. 845 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: Of our boundaries don't always have to be so rigid 846 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: or so diffuse where we're either like not able to 847 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: give an answer or we are just cutting people off 848 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: and leaving our relationships very dry. There is always a nice, gray, 849 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: nuanced middle ground. And those boundaries are going to be 850 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 1: different with different people, just like they're different with different clients. 851 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, and to Q in back the what is therapy? Actually, 852 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 4: it's this. It's when we're in it, when you're in 853 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,520 Speaker 4: your life circumstance and you have only talked about these, 854 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 4: had these kind of conversations a certain kind of way, 855 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 4: or seen it demonstrate a certain kind of way. So 856 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 4: much of what I do with people a lot of 857 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,879 Speaker 4: times is just like give different words to that kind 858 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,879 Speaker 4: of conversation, Like instead of just saying no, I don't 859 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 4: have the energy for you right now, which can feel 860 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 4: abrasive for someone who's especially like kind of codependent or 861 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,879 Speaker 4: caring or nurturing, to say just like helping them like. 862 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 1: What about this word? Or well, what is really going on? 863 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 2: Why? 864 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: And that's also there. What would it be like to 865 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,920 Speaker 1: say it this way? Would that feel like you. I 866 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: like that because one of the things that I think 867 00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: therapy is is it helps people come back to the 868 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: true version of who they are versus who they think 869 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: other people expect them to be, or who the world 870 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: has taught them that they need to be. And that 871 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: hits on that like, if the world expects me to 872 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: always be available, then I'm always available, but that's not 873 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: me and that doesn't feel like me. But also being 874 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: abrasive and cutting people off also doesn't feel like me. 875 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,279 Speaker 1: So therapy helps you get to a place where you 876 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: can respond in a way that allows you to be 877 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: you the most you way. And that is one of 878 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: the reasons why we cannot tell you what to say. 879 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we can give you like ideas. I mean 880 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 4: that too makes me think of just asking like, well, 881 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 4: what is it, what's going on? Why can't you do it? 882 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 4: Like letting a person actually investigate why don't you want 883 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 4: to go to Christmas with your so and so, Like 884 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 4: get underneath just the reactive part of it to the 885 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 4: truth about why it matters to you or what's happening 886 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,319 Speaker 4: for you, and then you want to say more than 887 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 4: just no, because if these are people that are intimate relationships, 888 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 4: you would want to share what you know about yourself 889 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 4: with them, to say, oh, here's actually what's happening for 890 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 4: me in this. So no, I can't go in that 891 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 4: space with you. It's like, that's also why you know 892 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 4: I would want to say more than just no, because 893 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 4: I want people. 894 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: To know me. Yeah, I will say if you told 895 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,759 Speaker 1: me that you had had a really taxing time at 896 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 1: work or something along those lines, I think that also 897 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 1: gives that when you said like, I can be disappointed, 898 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,800 Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean you're disappointed me. I, because of 899 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,919 Speaker 1: who I am, might receive that differently than somebody else. 900 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: I'd be like, thank god she told me that, because 901 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: I want somebody who is able to be there with 902 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: me in XYZ, And I'm glad she didn't do something 903 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: because she felt obligated versus somebody you might be like, 904 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 1: I'm a burden to you, which you don't get to decide. 905 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,160 Speaker 1: If you're a burden to somebody, they get to decide that, 906 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: and you didn't say that. So anyway, I like that, 907 00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,440 Speaker 1: and I'm glad that actually full circle came together. If 908 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,600 Speaker 1: you have any questions, feedback thoughts, send them our way. 909 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: If you want to give us your interpretation of therapy 910 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: after listening to this episode. We'd also like that I 911 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: like hearing from you guys. You can follow the podcast 912 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,320 Speaker 1: at You Need Therapy Podcast and on Instagram me at 913 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 1: cat dot Defata. Tara does not want you to follow 914 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 1: her because she doesn't have a public Instagram account, but 915 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: it's not because she doesn't like you. No. I like 916 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,879 Speaker 1: you all. I like you all even though I don't 917 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: know you, and that's going to do it. I'll be 918 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: back on Wednesday for couch Talks and I hope you 919 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 1: have the day, the moment, the hour, the second that 920 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 1: you need to have. 921 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 4: Hye bye,