1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Tonight's classic episode takes us to France. To France at 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: the height of frenchness. You know what I mean, we're 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: talking Big Loui's. 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: Time totally also the home of some of my favorite 5 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: bands in the history of music, bands like Air Phoenix 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 2: and Daft Punk. Can you imagine growing up in a 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: place surrounded by the Palace of Versailles. I think it 8 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: would cause you to make some pretty interesting and fancy music. 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and neat lots of cake, right hmm yum. So 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 3: we're this place has a lot of history and a 11 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 3: lot of injustice that occurred around it, and you know, 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 3: let's say, pretty directly by the people who hung out 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 3: in it. So there's really no reason to think that 14 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 3: there aren't ghosts hanging around here somewhere. And that's what 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: this episode is about. 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: And with that, we've got I've got to give a 17 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: shout out to a phrase I learned because of a 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: Palace of Versailles story. Adieu from UFOs to psychic powers 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: want you to know. 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. 23 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 4: My name is Noam. 24 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super 25 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: producer Paul Decant. You are you? Thanks for tuning in? 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Should I say bonjour? This is stuff they don't want 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: you to know. We get so many suggestions via email, 28 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: via tweets, via strangers talking to us in the streets. 29 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: And this episode is based on a very old suggestion 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: that came in two thousand and ten. 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,639 Speaker 4: Maybe way back in twenty ten. The good old days. 32 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 4: Things were so simple then. 33 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Right, little did we know what twenty eighteen would bring. 34 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: And it's appropriate that we're looking into the past and 35 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: into the future and remarking on the passage of history 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: because today's episode concerns one of the most important historical 37 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: locations in France. Today. We are asking why people believe 38 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: the Palace of Versailles is haunted. 39 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 3: And if you don't know what the Palace of Versailles is, 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 3: it is the or. It was the seat of royal 41 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 3: power in France for many, many years. But it didn't 42 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: just start off that way. 43 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: No, No, it started off actually in a very difficult way. 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: In fifteen seventy five, there was a fellow named Albert 45 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: de Gandhi Geo and d I, who was a member 46 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: of the Court of Henry the Second. He purchased this signori, 47 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: or the lordship over this village called Versailles, sorry, purchased, Yeah, 48 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: he just bought it. He bought the town. 49 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: He got the sign insoid that's Italian. 50 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: That's fine, it doesn't matter. Okay, it's early, all right, 51 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 4: Actually it's eleven. 52 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 1: It's kind of early for us. We're night out. That's 53 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: true yet, and you are correct. He did have an 54 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: Italian background, which at that time came with some stereotypes. 55 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 4: Yes, it did, that's right. Yeah. The French looked down 56 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 4: on the Italians as being sort of shifty, uh, not layabouts, 57 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 4: but more manipulative, kind of Machiavelian creepers. 58 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: I guess right, Yes, schemers. That was the stereotype they 59 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: were lavering under. But de Gandhi had done quite well 60 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: and was well regarded in the court. He also clearly 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: had some juice, He had some scratch, he had some 62 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: some cash, so he yes, he purchased the lordship over 63 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: this town, about fifteen miles southwest ish of Paris. The 64 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: population was in a very bad way, or in a 65 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: tail spin. They have been damaged by one hundred years 66 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: wars and the plagues and all in all, this series 67 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: of tragedies for the village of Versailles means it's a 68 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: great buy for Albert to Gandhi. 69 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, sort of like the banks swooping in after 70 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 4: the housing collapse or whatever, and like, you know, just 71 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 4: buying up underwater properties and stuff, you. 72 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 3: Know, quite similar, very gross. 73 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's a good business move. 74 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. 75 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: So you know, kingships change over time, as they do. 76 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: As the old man dies, somebody new comes in, and 77 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: it's usually blood related, almost always blood related. So in 78 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 3: the early sixteen hundreds, Gandhi invited the new King Louis 79 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: the thirteenth to Versailles on hunting trips. Because you know, 80 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 3: you've got this beautiful area, this land that you've purchased, 81 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 3: you invite the king down to do a little hunting. 82 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: Hey, you're always in court, why don't come out to 83 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: my place. We down some peasants wars maybe and we can. 84 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm thinking fox, that's what I'm picturing, with their 85 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 4: pack of hounds chasing down the sly little fox. 86 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's all kinds of wildlife there. It was largely 87 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 3: just untouched land. 88 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 4: That's true. 89 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: And these are going to be hunting parties. Yeah, this 90 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: means it's not just these two fellows on horseback with 91 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: some dogs or with some bows and arrows. They have 92 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: a bunch of people who are doing the actual work. 93 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, well they kind of watch. Maybe, I don't know 94 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 3: who knows who's to say. Actually, there are probably historians 95 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 3: that will say exactly how much Louis the thirteenth got 96 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: down with the hunting. But either way, he loved doing it. 97 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. He loved the place so much that in sixteen 98 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: twenty three he had a hunting lodge built nearby. And 99 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: for him, this was a modest, a modest structure. 100 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. I was built out of bricks and you know, 101 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 3: would stuff that the common man would use. But that's 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: all they needed. They just needed a place to take 103 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 3: shelter so they could stay the night there or whatever 104 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: and they'd go hunting the next day. 105 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 4: So then eight years later Louis obtained the Signiory of 106 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 4: Versailles from the Gandhi family and began to make enlargements 107 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 4: to this hunting chateau. He continued to expand the structure 108 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 4: until his death in sixteen forty three, at which time 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 4: the real big player in this story comes along. His son, 110 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 4: Louis the fourteenth, aka the Sun King, came along and 111 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 4: he was a huge fan of the location as well. 112 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: Yes, the Sun King, the one that your history books 113 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: rightly associate with the practice called absolute monarchy. 114 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 3: Yes, he loved centralized government. He was all about it, 115 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 3: and he thought the king is the center. Everything else 116 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: moves out from there. 117 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: Right, hence the Sun King right, as Noel has pointed out, 118 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: And it's true, he expanded Versailles at a massive rate, 119 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: and this is where it moved from a pretentious royal 120 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: chateau to a palace, in fact, by some measures, the 121 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: largest palace in the world. And there's a side note 122 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: here that I want to put in just for all 123 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: of you listening who have an interest in the bizarre 124 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: nature of royal day to day life. While we were 125 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: researching this episode, I found something that has nothing to 126 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: do with whether or not Versaia is haunted. It is 127 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: the ceremony that the king had his rising and sleeping ceremony. Yes, 128 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: it is bizarre and so over the top. 129 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you want to go down a rabbit hole, 130 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: look up Marie Antoinette the waking ceremony. It is one 131 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: of the strangest things. 132 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: People would pay to talk to these folks as they 133 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: were waking up, to like put their clothes on for 134 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: them to address them, and then they were paid to 135 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: do the same thing as they were going to sleep. 136 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: And the one thing, at least in Louie's case, that 137 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: keeps popping up is the fact that they're the actual 138 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: place where they slept amid these ostentatious, opulent chambers. The 139 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: actual place was separated from the rest of the room 140 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: by this tiny decorative balustrade. And they kept using the 141 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: phrase decorative balustrade. Yeah, I looked it up. It's just cartoonish. 142 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 4: What is a balustrade. 143 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: It's it looks like a banister, That's what I. 144 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 4: Was kind of picture. 145 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's just a gilded Bannis fancy banister. 146 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 1: It's a fancy that's what they should call it. 147 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: Uh. 148 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: I think we should write to the editors and ask 149 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: them to change that. 150 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,680 Speaker 3: I agree to a fancy ben yes. 151 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 4: So, speaking of fancy, though, Louis was himself quite fancy right, 152 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 4: he was responsible for a lot of the trends in 153 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 4: clothing and coiffery. It kind of permeated out of France 154 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 4: and into the rest of Europe. Right, Yeah, Yeah, he 155 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 4: was a trendssetter who was also he was also easily angered, 156 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 4: and angering him was bad. But without going too far 157 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 4: into Louis, we can say that his call it his ego, 158 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 4: call it his philosophy of what a government should be symbolically, 159 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 4: whatever the motivation, it resulted in this gigantic, monstrous compound. 160 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: And this place is huge. We have stats about the 161 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: palace itself. It has seven hundred rooms that are spread 162 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: over more than seven hundred thousand square feet. 163 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's stinking giant. And that's just the palace itself. 164 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 3: If you look at the surrounding area of the palace 165 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 3: that is considered Versailles still or the Palace of Versais grounds, 166 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: you're covering over two thousand acres and that's about eighty 167 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: seven almost eighty eight million square feet good golly. 168 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 169 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 3: And this also includes two hundred and thirty acres of gardens, 170 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 3: again massive, and inside these gardens you'll find two hundred 171 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 3: and ten thousand flowers and two hundred thousand trees that 172 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 3: are annually planted there. Those numbers are astounding. 173 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: And they're very into fountains. It must have been a 174 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: different time, you know, the era of construction, because gardens 175 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: must have been i'm going to say more popular overall 176 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: than they are today. 177 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 3: You know. 178 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: Also, the fountains themselves are a work of art. This 179 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: makes the Palace of Versailles officially the world's largest royal 180 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: domain in terms of sheer area, and it also has 181 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: a lot of notable features. 182 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we're all big fans of the Hall 183 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 4: of me which has seventeen giant mirrored arches opposite seventeen windows. 184 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 4: Each one of the arches contains twenty one mirrors, which 185 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 4: makes a massive three hundred and fifty seven total as 186 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 4: the hall is two hundred thirty nine point five feet long, 187 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 4: thirty four point four feet wide, and forty point four 188 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 4: feet high. 189 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 3: Yes, a cavern, Yeah, it's a cavern that you walk 190 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 3: down that has a light coming in on this on 191 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 3: to your right. Let's say you're walking this way to 192 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 3: your right, and then on the left you got the 193 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 3: mirrors reflecting the light and these chandeliers, these opulent, insane chandeliers, 194 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: and above the chandeliers are these paintings on the ceiling. 195 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 3: It's just I mean it's incredible, but it's also one 196 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 3: of those things like how much money. 197 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 4: Can we spend? And then you know why, sure, weren't 198 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 4: weren't peasants starving in the streets? 199 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: Yes, and on special occasions, while the same peasants were starving, 200 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: they would light around twenty thousand candle at night to 201 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 1: have the same sort of phenomenon occur. It seems like 202 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: one of those things is difficult to imagine until you 203 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: actually visit. Yes, it kind of makes me think of 204 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: that movie The Florida Project. Have you guys seen this yet, 205 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: only in that it's about. 206 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 4: These very poor areas around Disney World and these really 207 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 4: kind of like shoddy hotels where families rent them by 208 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 4: the week because otherwise they wouldn't be able to pass 209 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,319 Speaker 4: a credit check. But they're all like things like the 210 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 4: Magical Castle and like Future Land, but they're all just 211 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 4: completely kind of poor facsimiles of Disney stuff. And then 212 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 4: you know, every night Disney World shoots off this insane, 213 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 4: ostentatious firework display and it becomes this thing you're just 214 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 4: kind of living in the shadow of, and you sort 215 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 4: of like take it for granted, and it's like, well, 216 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 4: we're never gonna get to go there, but here it is, 217 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 4: and you just sort of almost like forget about it. 218 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 4: I don't know, you know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah, 219 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: people that like, here's this thing that's just we're living 220 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 4: in it's shadow, but we're never going to understand that 221 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 4: kind of wealth or opulence and it's Is it depressing? 222 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 4: Is it a constant reminder? Are you just kind of 223 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 4: get used to it and just go on with your life. 224 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: I don't know. 225 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's stark inequality and very close association. 226 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 3: Well, and it means that rumor would spread a lot 227 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 3: because imagine all those people who live near it that 228 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 3: can never go there, and you can only imagine what 229 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 3: the royal family does up there in the dark. 230 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 4: Spoiler alert, weird stuff. 231 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, are they hunting animals or are they hunting men? 232 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 3: The greatest game? 233 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: Right? 234 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: Right? 235 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: Who is that iced tea ice cube? 236 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 4: One of the one of the ice is I think 237 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 4: it was tea. 238 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: It was tea iced ty And we won't explain that reference. 239 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: If you don't get it, you're going to have a 240 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: great time this weekend googling this. Over the years, Versai 241 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: has also been home to not one, not two, not three, 242 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: but five chapels, and they have a royal opera house, 243 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: ye in there. It's just an opera house. It's made 244 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: out of wood. 245 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 4: I think they actually still host some fully produced opera 246 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 4: performances there. And you can obviously buy tickets to tour 247 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 4: the Palace of Versailles and the opera houses included as 248 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 4: part of that. 249 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: And let's return to the history here. 250 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 3: Sure, let's jump forward almost a century to seventeen fifty eight. 251 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: This is when the next king, Louis the fifteenth, he 252 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 3: had another chateau constructed inside the gardens themselves, remember that 253 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty acres. He called it the Petit Trianon, 254 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: and it kind of mirrored the larger triannon that existed 255 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: in the palace itself already, and it was just meant 256 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 3: to be another royal residence on the grounds. It was 257 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 3: supposed to be able to house the king if the 258 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: king was in town, as well as the king's entourage, 259 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 3: so enough rooms to house a small group of people. Then, 260 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: when this king, Louis the fifteenth, died of the pox 261 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: in seventeen seventy four, the crown was passed down to 262 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 3: yet another Louis, this time the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette. 263 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: And did she later enter into possession of this petit triannon. 264 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 3: Yes, it was given to her by the king, and 265 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 3: she really took it as her own. She made all 266 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: kinds of additions and alterations to the surrounding structure and 267 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: to the petit trianon itself, and she spent a ton 268 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: of her time there, like inside the. 269 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 1: Petit trannon, balustrades galore, yes, all over the place. And then, 270 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: of course we must mention that the Palace of Versailles 271 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: itself had a close brush with death due to the 272 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: French Revolution. In seventeen eighty nine. The Revolution forced Louis 273 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: the sixteenth to leave Versailles for Paris. 274 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 4: Do those revolutionaries have no appreciation for fine things? What's 275 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 4: wrong with them? Come on? 276 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: The French Revolution is this startling chapter in history that 277 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: I think more people should know more about. One of 278 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: my favorite parts of it. It's a weird sentence to 279 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: say one of my favorite parts of the French Revolution, 280 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: but one of my favorite parts was the effort to 281 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: remake the calendar, to create a different calendar entirely. 282 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 4: Absolutely, there's so many nuances to the whole thing that 283 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 4: you don't get in the broad strokes kind of high 284 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 4: school education version of it, all right, or in limits 285 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 4: or oblem. 286 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 3: Right right right. 287 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: The palace would never again be home to French royalty, 288 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: and in the nineteenth century eighteen thirty seven specifically, it 289 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: became the Museum of the History of France. Today, it's 290 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: one of the most visited sites in the country up 291 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: there with you know, approximately the other one in the 292 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: Eiffel Tower right. And in the centuries between its construction 293 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: and the modern day, it's been host to numerous storied 294 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: visitors and residents. Some rumor has it never left oo, 295 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: so is. 296 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 4: It about to get crazy? 297 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 3: Yes? Right after this quick break, here's. 298 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: Where it gets crazy. In the past as well as 299 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: in the modern age, multiple visitors have reported otherworldly or 300 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: to their mind inexplicable phenomena at the palace. They've alleged, 301 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: to put a fine point on it, that they've seen ghost. 302 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, specifically King Louis, the sixteenth, the fourteenth, and the thirteenth. 303 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 3: All of these these kings have been seen roaming the 304 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 3: halls of the palace itself or in a hunting party. 305 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: That never ends, the great hunt. Yes, yes, yes, yeah, 306 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: And we clearly just established earlier in the show that 307 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: we think they were recreationally hunting people. 308 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 3: Hey, hey, we never said that. Yeah, it was just 309 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 3: you know, we hinted at it was thrown out ideas here. 310 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: Dennis Reynolds would say, it was the implication. 311 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: It's correct. 312 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: There are other ghosts that are rumored to haunt the 313 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: grounds Marie Antoinette, of course. And then there are a 314 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: ghost of visitors such as Benjamin Franklin, whom friends and 315 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: neighbors you may recall from an earlier episode. 316 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, he liked to hang around there. 317 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: Yes, Benjamin Franklin, probably not a serial killer. 318 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 4: Probably not, but definitely a philandering francophile. 319 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: Yes. Indeed, indeed there's no proof of these ghosts, of course, 320 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: but from a tourism perspective, a good ghost story is 321 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 1: great for business, and these are just oddly enough, and 322 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: the Kings would be very insulted to hear this. They're 323 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: just the also rans and the stories of hauntings of Versailles. 324 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: When most people mention ghost or paranormal activity in Versailles, 325 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: they're thinking of a singular strange afternoon that occurred around 326 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: one hundred and seventeen years ago. This August. Was it 327 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: a wrinkle in time, a fold in death. It starts 328 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: with two teachers who traveled there from England on August tenth, 329 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: nineteen oh one. 330 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: These two academics were Anne Moberly and Eleanor Jordain, and 331 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: these were the principal and vice principal of Saint Hugh's 332 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 3: College in Oxford, and they were in France on vacation 333 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: and they wanted to go visit Versailles, as you do 334 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 3: because most people when you're in there France, go to 335 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 3: Versailles if you can. And after touring the palace, they 336 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 3: went on search in the nearby gardens of the petit Ryana, 337 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: remember the one with Marie Antoinette. Well, they noticed that 338 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 3: things seemed a bit off somehow. The further that they 339 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: traveled that they kept going and things are feeling strange. 340 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: And again this is a huge area, right They passed 341 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: a deserted farmhouse, they noticed an old plow lined by 342 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 1: the side of the road, and they both claimed they 343 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: began to feel strange, as if some sort of emotional 344 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: oppression was occurring. They got a bad vibe. 345 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 3: And this is something we here with ghost encounters or 346 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 3: stories of ghosts. Encounters throughout the centuries that there's an 347 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: overwhelming feeling of dread that occurs before you see or 348 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 3: hear anything. 349 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: And they started to see other people they saw, according 350 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: to their reports, they saw two men dressed in long 351 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: grayish green coats with small, three cornered hats passing by, 352 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: and they asked the men the way to the Petit Triaden, 353 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: and they were pointed toward a path that was directly 354 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: in front of them. They walked on. 355 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 5: They came to a gazebo shaded by trees. The dark 356 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 5: mood hung even heavier over them. Here in this shady grove, 357 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 5: everything was very, very still, and all of a sudden, 358 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 5: a repulsive, foul looking gentleman, his face pitted with small pox, 359 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 5: was standing by the gazebo, and he stared direly unpleasantly 360 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 5: at the onlookers. 361 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: And just then someone came rushing up behind them and 362 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: warned them that they were going the wrong way. They 363 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: were told to cross a small bridge, and when they did, 364 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: they arrived at what they assumed to be the Petit Trianon, 365 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: where they found a woman sitting on a stool sketching. Yeah. 366 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 3: They said that she wore an old fashioned dress. She 367 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: was covered with a pale green scarf, and all of 368 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: a sudden, that gloom came back over them, that intense, sad, 369 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: disturbing feeling. 370 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 4: Suddenly, a footman came rushing out of a nearby building, 371 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 4: slamming the door behind himself. The footman told them that 372 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 4: the entrance to the Petit channel was on the other 373 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 4: side of the building, and so they walked around the 374 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 4: house where they found a wedding party waiting to tour 375 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 4: the rooms. 376 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 3: And at that point they're encountering other human beings that 377 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 3: they can confirm our human beings, and the dark mood lifts, 378 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 3: and nothing else unusual happens to them. 379 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: In fact, they didn't talk about it for a long time. Later, 380 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: so the story goes, they realized that people they'd encountered 381 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: were dressed in garb from approximately seventeen eighty nine. They 382 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 1: also found that some of the buildings they had passed 383 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: existed in seventeen eighty nine, but not in the present day. Again, 384 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: that's nineteen oh one, So from what they believed and 385 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: what later came to be known as the Moberly Jordain incident, 386 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: they somehow they thought had traveled one hundred and twelve 387 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: years into the past, or seen things that happened one 388 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve years ago, only to be rescued by 389 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: the tour guide who was leading that wedding party in 390 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: nineteen oh one. 391 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 4: I want to see a dramatization of this. Yeah, like 392 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 4: you know, a reenactment. This is a cool scenario. 393 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they were just experiencing the flat circle, 394 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 3: you guys. I think that's what happened. 395 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: Quite possibly, right, Well, we'll see. Within months of their 396 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: encounter again August tenth, nineteen oh one, they I published 397 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: an account of this in a book called An Adventure. 398 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: It's very important to note they used pseudonyms, they did 399 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: not use their real names. Their experience became known as 400 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: the Versailles time slip, which sounds cool, the Ghost of Triannon, 401 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: or of course, the Moberly Jordainane incident. 402 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 3: There are alarms going off in my head about this already, 403 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 3: just because of the garb what went down at the 404 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: Palace of Versailles, the smallpox epidemics that were, you know, 405 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 3: ravaging France around the time that they allegedly went back 406 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 3: to I feel like there are signs pointing to maybe 407 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,719 Speaker 3: an explanation that would be less otherworldly. 408 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, so what happened? 409 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: Nowadays? There are several popular theories. We'll go ahead and 410 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: say the first two that everyone thinks of. Did these 411 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: people travel in time or did they have what would 412 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: be a retrocognitive experience the opposite of precognition, right, or 413 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: did they just happen to see a bunch of ghosts? 414 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: And if so, there's an interesting debate there what would 415 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: the difference be. What's the difference between them traveling in 416 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: time and them seeing a bunch of ghosts? 417 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 4: Well, it's certainly hard to explain away given that they 418 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 4: had a shared experience, whatever might have happened. So that's 419 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 4: you know, that's how I see it. 420 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: That's a great point. There were the popular mundane theories 421 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: as well, right, But the primary thing is, yeah, a 422 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: shared experience. It wasn't one person saying, who's that dude 423 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: with a weird hat? What's wrong with that guy's face? 424 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, because even if they were both like tripping their 425 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 4: butts off on some sort of psychedelic they're not gonna 426 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 4: see the same thing. They might just you know, have 427 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 4: a weird freakout at Versailles, but they're not gonna see 428 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 4: the same dude in the green coat and the woman 429 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 4: sketching with the you know, the veil or whatever, the 430 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 4: green scarf. 431 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: Right, Well, but what if they did have some wine 432 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 3: and they were walking the grounds and then they came 433 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: across something that was real that they both saw that 434 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 3: maybe they just didn't know what was happening or understand. 435 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 4: Perhaps a historical reenactment of some kind. 436 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: Yes, that's what I'm thinking. 437 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: That's one of the theories. One is that the teachers 438 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: accidentally crashed an historical reenactment. 439 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 3: Yes, a woman named Joan Evans, who was Jordaine's literary executor. 440 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 3: She wrote in a nineteen seventy six article for Encounter 441 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 3: magazine in which she argued that the two women had 442 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 3: simply walked unknowingly into this historical reenactment where you know, 443 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 3: there are people dressed in seventeen late seventeen hundred's garb 444 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 3: and even with perhaps face paint of smallpox, and they're 445 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: all just you know, going around in the period attire 446 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 3: because they're waiting for the performance. 447 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 4: It's like backstage, it's like Disney rules. Man, you never 448 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 4: let them see you with your head off, you know, 449 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 4: you always you don't unless you're on and like in 450 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 4: the game, you don't let people walk up on you 451 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 4: just doing your thing. 452 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing they were. They were just wandering 453 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 3: about through the gardens and trying to find the Petit 454 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 3: trianon and perhaps all these other people are just getting ready. 455 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 4: And you think maybe they were drunk too. 456 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm just saying, if you're a little 457 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 3: bit tipsy and you see something like that in you're 458 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 3: feeling that gloom or whatever it was that they're feeling, 459 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 3: perhaps everything became a little more sinister or strange than 460 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 3: it truly was. 461 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: Well, okay, okay, just saying okay, But here's the thing. 462 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: Evans is seeking a way to defend this explanation, right 463 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: without attacking the protagonist or the people who believe this happened. 464 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: She researched re enactments, but she didn't find any events 465 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: that would have been happening in nineteen oh one. So 466 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: if that is the explanation, then it was some sort 467 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: of underground historical reenactment, which I guess people do. I 468 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: would love to accidentally walk into one with you guys, 469 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: but they're not. They're not that common, right. 470 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, here's my theory. Part of the wedding that 471 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 3: was going on was the reenactment. The reenactment and the 472 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: wedding were tied together, the one that they crashed from earlier, 473 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 3: because it was just around the corner to enter the 474 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 3: Petita and on. I think it was all part of 475 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 3: one just opulent wedding party. 476 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: There's another theory. Did you hear this? When this also 477 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: comes from Evans. She based it on a nineteen sixty 478 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: five biography of a French artist named Robert de Montescuele. 479 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: The biography, by an author named Philip Julian, noted that 480 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: this artist had lived in a house in Versailles and 481 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: was noted for his performances that were called tableaux vivant, 482 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: in which a Parisian men performed the roles of both 483 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: men and women, kind of in Shakespeare's style, and Evans 484 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: says that maybe Moberly and Jordayne were encountering some performance 485 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: like this. We should also add, after they were speaking 486 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: to each other about this incident, they both became convinced 487 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: that the woman they saw sketching outside of the Petit 488 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: Trannon was Marian's. Whenette either alive one hundred and twelve 489 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: years ago or dead and ghost sketching, which is, you know, 490 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: obviously their version of ghostwriting. 491 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 3: The whip, ghost sketching the horse. 492 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 4: Right, exactly good. 493 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: There's a problem, though, there's no evidence indicating this artist 494 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: would have thrown an event in nineteen oh one, and 495 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: ever since her article, this theory had been reported and 496 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: re reported as one of the most likely explanations for 497 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: the Versailles timesl but again no hard proof. 498 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wonder it does make sense that an 499 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 3: historical reenactment of that sort would be written down somewhere 500 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 3: in some record, because there's a budget associated with it, 501 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 3: and anytime there's money associated, it probably got written down. 502 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 3: Unless it was like a black market recreation, it's like. 503 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: A black bag operation y the government of France. 504 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 3: Or maybe it's just in you know, the father of 505 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 3: the bride's records somewhere that he paid for it. 506 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: Really pushing this wedding party. So there's there's another there's 507 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: another aspect here, and it goes back to a point 508 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: where we had established earlier. It's that they experienced this together. 509 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: They had a shared call it a delusion if you will, 510 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 1: but they had this shared experience. Where does that lead us. 511 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: We'll find out after a word from our sponsor, and 512 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: we're back. 513 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 4: So another potential explanation for this phenomenon is that these 514 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 4: teachers shared a delusion, which is kind of the sticking 515 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 4: point for me. 516 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 3: If it wasn't. 517 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 4: An incident of drunkenly stumbling into a historical reenactment, there's 518 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 4: definitely a shared delusion going on here. If it's not, 519 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 4: you know, actually physically seeing ghosts and this is cool. 520 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 4: This is something that's called a folly adieu or madness 521 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 4: of two. And you've probably heard this term before. I 522 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 4: am connected with stories of identical twins who for some 523 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 4: reason go insane at the same time, such as Ursula 524 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 4: and Sabina Erickson. 525 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 3: I argue that they didn't go mad. I still think 526 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 3: they're like secret spies or something. 527 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: Well, this is interesting. You often will hear about the 528 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: madness of two, or it could be a followed dedois 529 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: about this in terms of twins, one twin goes crazy. 530 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: There's there are a couple of cases in the United 531 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: Kingdom that involve this sort of this sort of emotional 532 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 1: contagion spreading. And when we hear descriptions of someone saying, oh, 533 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: we both felt a palpable mood. We have to remember 534 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: that the majority of our in person communication is nonverbal. 535 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: So if someone is indicating that they're feeling a mood 536 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: and you are sympathetic with them, close with them, they're 537 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: a friend to colleague, a neighbor, a family member, then 538 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,719 Speaker 1: you will unconsciously pick up on those cues, and if 539 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: you like them, you will unconsciously start practicing something called mirroring, 540 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,239 Speaker 1: which is when you subtly mimic the sales folks are 541 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: doing this to you all the time, before and after 542 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: you listen to this show, where I'll subtly mimic maybe 543 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: the placement of your arms or the placement of your legs, 544 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 1: or start nodding when they ask a question. This stuff, all, 545 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: this whole quiverfull of strange nonverbal arrows. They can affect people, 546 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: whether or not they're twins. And in this case, I 547 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: would agree that there's some sand to it, although it 548 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,239 Speaker 1: does sound weird because usually if we think about as 549 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: shared delusion, we imagine, you know, kids one upping each other, 550 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: backing each other up when they're telling crazy stories, and 551 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: they all know on some level it's not true, but 552 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: they want to participate. So how could two people really 553 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: believe this? The problem with this theory, which seems really 554 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: solid in my opinion, is that it comes from kind 555 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: of a screwed up place. The scuttle button about Mobley 556 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: and Jordain was that they weren't just two colleagues who 557 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: taught closely to get and took vacations. According to at 558 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: least one former student, they were romantically involved and had 559 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: a long term open relationship where they were known to 560 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: pursue other teachers and students as well. And this comes 561 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: from a book in nineteen fifty seven by a former 562 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: student named Lucille Eyermonger, who wrote a critique of their 563 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: book An Adventure in her own work called Ghost of Versailles, 564 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: Miss Moberly and Miss Jordain and their Adventure a Critical Study. 565 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 3: Wow a word for a title there, but it gets 566 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 3: across exactly what it is. So Ayremonger delved into the 567 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 3: nature of their relationship the two women and basically concluded 568 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 3: that their adventure was this folly adieu yep. 569 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: And. 570 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: They had been so you know. She suggests that they 571 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 3: had been so distracted by their relationship and by their 572 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 3: time that they were spending together and again, I'm gonna 573 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 3: insert maybe some wine there, that they merely misinterpreted ordinary 574 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 3: people and objects to be things from that time period 575 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 3: seventeen eighty nine, and they became so obsessed with proving 576 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 3: their story and kind of retelling their story that it 577 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 3: grew and grew over time that they even convinced themselves 578 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: of the reality of this ghostly encounter. 579 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 4: But do we have any reports of them doing historical 580 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 4: reenactments at the Palace of Versailles during this time period. 581 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 3: No? 582 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, hmmm, that's it. You know, this seems like a 583 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 4: little bit odd to have done in the early nineteen hundred. 584 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. Okay, So let's imagine the Colosseum, 585 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 3: the Greek Colosseum. Okay, that entire thing was based or 586 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 3: at least it became in the end historical reenactments of 587 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 3: war battles things like that. I mean, I think this 588 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 3: is a celebrating the past, especially victories or something good 589 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 3: or a previous king. 590 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 4: Oh, that's true. I guess I'm just thinking of that 591 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,479 Speaker 4: as being more of a touristy thing that you would 592 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 4: do like at a you know, like stone mountain. Yeah, 593 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 4: like you have like you know, civil war reenactments and 594 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 4: stuff that seems like a much more of a modern construct. 595 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: But no call assumes a good point. 596 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 4: It is a very good point. 597 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: I have a life hacked for everyone listening. It is 598 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: relatively unethical and is not particularly good. Oh, there is 599 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: no recognized statute on the amount of time that needs 600 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: to elapse between reenactments. That's true. We all have sort 601 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: of a rough spider sense about it. You know, if 602 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: you don't feel like changing your clothes, just tell people 603 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: the next day that you're doing a reenactment. I think, 604 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: I think you can get away with it once. 605 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 4: I'm going to use that, but I've got to keep 606 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 4: it in my back pocket for when I'm really funky. 607 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: It's just between it's just between us super producer Paul, 608 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: and millions of people. Yeah, so don't tell anyone folks. 609 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: Everybody use it once, and. 610 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,720 Speaker 3: I would say, be be excruciatingly specific about the time period. 611 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: Lecture people about little known facts heard the day before. So, 612 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: aside from the excellent point that that there's no evidence 613 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: of an historical reenactment occurring, we do know that there 614 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: are factors that cast doubt on the truth of the 615 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,919 Speaker 1: couple's claims. That come from the skeptic side. So first, 616 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: England Society for Psychical Research found that the teachers originally 617 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: did not think anything was wrong. Originally they thought they 618 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: just had a great afternoon touring Versailles and they got 619 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: lost for a second. 620 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 4: These were some kookie ladies. I was gonna throw that 621 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 4: at on out there. 622 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: They didn't think anything was strange until as much as 623 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: three months later when they compared notes and one of 624 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: them not both of them said hey, do you remember 625 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: the thing? 626 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember the smallpox face, guy weird and the footman. 627 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: And they republished the story multiple times, and each time 628 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: they republished it, the story. 629 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 4: Seemed to expand and it caused a stir, didn't it. 630 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: It absolutely did, because you know, Versailles already has this 631 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,800 Speaker 1: iconic image. People want to see mystery. They know great 632 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: historical events transpired, So this sounds like a likely candidate 633 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: for something extraordinary to occur. The author of this study 634 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: for the Society, a guy named W. H. Salter, pointed 635 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: out that the embellished versions of the tale published in 636 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: later editions were also written much later than the couple 637 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: had originally claimed, maybe as long as five years afterwards. 638 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: Only after they have made several return trips to Versailles. 639 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 3: And there's another thing here. Both of the authors of 640 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 3: the original tale were prone to hallucinations. One of them, Moverlely, 641 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 3: was prone to hallucinations both audio and vision since childhood. 642 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 3: And there's a person here writing Terry Castle that says 643 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 3: quote as a child, she had heard the words pinnacled reality. 644 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 3: As she stared at the spires of Winchester Cathedral. She 645 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 3: had seen two strange birds with dazzling white feathers and 646 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 3: immense wings fly over the cathedral into the west. In 647 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 3: Cambridge in nineteen thirteen, she saw a procession of medieval monks, 648 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 3: and at the Louver in nineteen fourteen she saw a 649 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 3: man six or seven feet high in a crown and 650 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 3: togelike dress, whom she at first took to be Charlemagne, 651 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 3: but later decided it was an apparition of the Roman 652 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 3: emperor Constantine. So wough, perhaps she actually has some form 653 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 3: of the second site. Maybe she truly is seeing historical 654 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,360 Speaker 3: figures throughout the past and all that circle has opened 655 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 3: up to her. 656 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 4: What's that syndrome you have where you get overcome with 657 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 4: great works of art? 658 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: You're talking about not just a garden variety epiphany, something 659 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: that stays with you. 660 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, the Stendell syndrome, it's like a reverie that you 661 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:11,160 Speaker 4: experience that's very all encompassing, borderline debilitating when you are 662 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 4: in the presence of great art. I just think it's 663 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 4: really fascinating, Matt, that all of these times that she 664 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 4: had these hallucinations, she was either at some sort of 665 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 4: historic site or an amazing art museum. I'm just wondering 666 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 4: if there's a connection there, because it seems like, you know, 667 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 4: and I could see what you're saying too about the 668 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 4: second site. Surely you know, at these these historic locations 669 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 4: where you know, many many events have occurred and historic 670 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 4: figures have trod upon these hallowed grounds. You know, I 671 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 4: could see that as being a potential thing too. But 672 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 4: I'm wondering if her hallucinations weren't triggered by these breathtaking sites. 673 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: You know, that's a really good question, and I'm tempted 674 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: to agree. But what this does prove is that the 675 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: teach are not or were not purposely misleading folks. They 676 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 1: weren't themselves being hucksters or trying to sell a book. Yeah, 677 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: they were selling a book there, right, they were, but 678 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,439 Speaker 1: they weren't. They weren't attempting to purposely mislead people, which 679 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: I think is a huge difference, because it sounds as 680 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: if they genuinely believed in the veracity of their story, 681 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: despite the fact that it was changing and expanding, right, 682 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: And part of the reason why it seems contradictory first 683 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: to say, well, how could they both believe this thing 684 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: is true and expand upon it at the same time. 685 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is that memory is tricky, deceitful, treacherous, and. 686 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 4: Will betray you. 687 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: Every time you remember something, you're just remembering the last 688 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: time you remembered it, which we've mentioned on this show before. 689 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: That's why as human's age, earlier memories take on this 690 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: strange feeling, Right, with this encapsulated tone. You might remember 691 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: just a snapshot from a time when you were four 692 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: and you burned your hand or something, but that probably 693 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,439 Speaker 1: happened in a very different way. You've just been accreting 694 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: these new interpretations of it. So at this point there 695 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 1: is no proof of ghostly activity in Versailles. However, the 696 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: two teachers captured the public imagination, and this book sold 697 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: like gangbusters. Multiple issues multiple languages. You can go to 698 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 1: Versailles to day and if you wish attempt to take 699 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: the path that they took. You will likely not see 700 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: Mary Antoinette, but if you do, please let us know. 701 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 3: And if you do happen to snap a picture of 702 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 3: any ghost, any apparition as some time time, slip, whatever 703 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 3: it is, send it to us. On Twitter, we are 704 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 3: conspiracy stuff, and on Facebook we are the same. You 705 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 3: can find our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy. 706 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 3: Post a picture there. Maybe if you just go on 707 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 3: a trip, tell everybody in that community about it. I'm 708 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 3: sure people will want to talk about this. We want 709 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 3: to talk about it too, if you want to listen 710 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 3: to it. And that's the end of this classic episode. 711 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 3: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 712 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 3: you can get into contact with us in a number 713 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 3: of different ways. One of the best is to give 714 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 3: us a call. Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. 715 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 3: If you don't want to do that, you can send 716 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 3: us a good old fashioned email. 717 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,399 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 718 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 719 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 720 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 3: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.