Speaker 1: Pushkin Khila Holt. Welcome to the.
Speaker 2: Studio, Jonathan Goldstein, Thank you for welcoming me to the studio.
Speaker 1: Getting a little bit of sarcasm.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for welcoming me.
Speaker 1: Today, we're going to be listening to an episode that
Speaker 1: originally ran Oh boy, like what seven years ago?
Speaker 2: We're in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, so, oh my eight years ago.
Speaker 2: It's a fan favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's one of my favorites too.
Speaker 2: There's something I still quote from it, which is I
Speaker 2: think she explains in the episode when she says Pearl,
Speaker 2: I still think of Pearl to this day.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Rose has had an impact on me.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure she's gonna have an impact on our listeners.
Speaker 2: I'm sure she is.
Speaker 1: Rose has an impact wherever she goes. And if you
Speaker 1: stick around at the end of the episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to catch up with present day Rose and see where
Speaker 1: she is all these years later, what she's up to.
Speaker 1: Enjoy everybody, But don't start licking your chops quite yet.
Speaker 1: That's disgusting. Who wants to do about chops before you
Speaker 1: start enjoying. We are going to start off with a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors.
Speaker 4: Hey, how are you.
Speaker 1: I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not?
Speaker 4: No? I think didn't you try to Facebook friend me?
Speaker 5: I don't think I responded.
Speaker 1: Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even
Speaker 1: friend me?
Speaker 3: Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.
Speaker 1: No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows
Speaker 1: we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's
Speaker 1: friend each other at the exact same.
Speaker 4: Time each other, because I have to go to work
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 1: Can't you take the computer with you.
Speaker 4: I'm stepping out the door now and I have to
Speaker 4: get on my bicycles.
Speaker 1: Bounce on the handlebars, and then you could we could
Speaker 1: we could facebook. Don't you think that's a good idea? If, like,
Speaker 1: if we both friend each other at the same time? No,
Speaker 1: why not?
Speaker 4: One?
Speaker 1: Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful
Speaker 1: from Dimlet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight.
Speaker 1: Today's episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had
Speaker 1: their first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser
Speaker 1: known fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked
Speaker 1: out their original drummer, Pete Best. The Beatles had their
Speaker 1: manager do the job. The lads just don't want you
Speaker 1: in the band anymore, he said.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.
Speaker 1: Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't
Speaker 1: funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a
Speaker 1: long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends
Speaker 1: had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.
Speaker 1: Obla de oh bla da, life went on. That's what happens.
Speaker 1: People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs, and eventually
Speaker 1: they stopped searching for the reason why most people do anyway.
Speaker 4: So I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.
Speaker 4: I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two
Speaker 4: thousand and one.
Speaker 1: This is Rose and the school she was entering was
Speaker 1: the University of North Florida, and it's like.
Speaker 4: A beachy community. I was like a cool surfer chick.
Speaker 4: I dreve like an old Volvo that was covered in
Speaker 4: like band stickers.
Speaker 1: Rose was a rebel, And if all the teen movies
Speaker 1: I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about
Speaker 1: campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular kids,
Speaker 1: and at the University of North Florida. Nobody was more
Speaker 1: popular than the sorority girls.
Speaker 4: Well, you like walk through school and they're set up
Speaker 4: there and they're like along the sidewalks and they're like,
Speaker 4: are you interested in enjoying a sorority? And I would
Speaker 4: just like blow by on my skateboard and be like no,
Speaker 4: I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.
Speaker 1: With with with sorority life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities
Speaker 4: and like the cool kids and their pop callers, Like,
Speaker 4: I didn't think that was for me. So the summer
Speaker 4: after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I
Speaker 4: start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm
Speaker 4: making friends with all these people in the Greek community
Speaker 4: and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're
Speaker 4: not weird. I started to dress like them, I started
Speaker 4: to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.
Speaker 4: And the fall of my junior year, I rushed and
Speaker 4: I got a bid from Alpha Kai and I joined.
Speaker 1: Sorry, the name of the sorority.
Speaker 4: Was, it's called Alpha chi Omega.
Speaker 1: Alpha chi Omega.
Speaker 4: And we were the Theta Sigma chapter Stata sigma chapter
Speaker 4: theta with the thh. So it was the Theta sigma
Speaker 4: chapter of Alpha ky Omega, and it was at unf sororities.
Speaker 1: It was a new and exciting world with such a
Speaker 1: rich history. It turns out that Condoleeza, Rice Enron Whistleblow,
Speaker 1: or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on
Speaker 1: Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Kai and had
Speaker 1: taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened
Speaker 1: avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a
Speaker 1: part of Alpha chi Omega Theta sigma chapter.
Speaker 4: We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, We wear pearls,
Speaker 4: we know our manners.
Speaker 1: You know, like that, did they use the word classy.
Speaker 4: You're not being classy?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely. And they had like all these weird acronyms, like
Speaker 4: if someone came up to you and whispered in your
Speaker 4: ear pearl, it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl,
Speaker 4: please engage in acts resembling a lady.
Speaker 1: So if someone says pearl in your that would mean
Speaker 1: you would begin.
Speaker 4: To It would mean like, let's say I'm doing a
Speaker 4: keg stand at a party and another sister is there.
Speaker 4: Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,
Speaker 4: because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,
Speaker 4: she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper
Speaker 4: in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,
Speaker 4: you're right, thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 1: Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,
Speaker 1: building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to
Speaker 1: toe in scarlet red and olive green the Alpha Kaya
Speaker 1: Omega colors. And while she'd never seen herself being cut
Speaker 1: out for all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing
Speaker 1: was it actually made her really happy.
Speaker 4: I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I
Speaker 4: got really into it and just walking around school now
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody
Speaker 4: knows you, and now you're in on the inside jokes,
Speaker 4: like I felt like I belonged, Like I went from
Speaker 4: being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the bubbly participant.
Speaker 1: Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,
Speaker 1: watching The Bachelor. One weekend, they all ran a campus
Speaker 1: charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss.
Speaker 4: And I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired
Speaker 4: after that five K and I'm having a lot of
Speaker 4: trouble sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.
Speaker 1: Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was
Speaker 1: feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went
Speaker 1: to see a doctor.
Speaker 4: And I said, could you take a look at my neck, like,
Speaker 4: I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who
Speaker 4: was treating me that day just like looked at me
Speaker 4: in horror and was like, you have to go to
Speaker 4: radiation right now. And I was like, I have to
Speaker 4: make an appointment, and she was like, no, I'm calling
Speaker 4: the second floor and you're gonna go get a CT
Speaker 4: scan right now. So it was crazy. They called it
Speaker 4: nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge, pronounced lymph notes
Speaker 4: all over my body. You could take one look at
Speaker 4: me and it looked like my neck and chest were
Speaker 4: just full of golf balls, like something was wrong. By
Speaker 4: the time we started testing and staging, I mean I
Speaker 4: was a stage three. This is like big cake cancer,
Speaker 4: This is like shave your head, Rose, like you've got
Speaker 4: real cancer. So I think around May I started chemo.
Speaker 1: Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.
Speaker 1: Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The
Speaker 1: one bright note throughout was the support she got from
Speaker 1: her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville
Speaker 1: Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the
Speaker 1: quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha
Speaker 1: Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to
Speaker 1: Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge
Speaker 1: of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she
Speaker 1: kept up with her work.
Speaker 4: And new girls are coming through and they have to
Speaker 4: decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha
Speaker 4: Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.
Speaker 4: Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority
Speaker 4: with the cancer girl, and we're saving her life.
Speaker 1: And that was something that they led with. That was
Speaker 1: actually something that was made explicit.
Speaker 4: Oh, I got up there with my bald head and
Speaker 4: gave a speech and cried every time about how my
Speaker 4: sisters were saving my life.
Speaker 1: Rose was lucky by the spring of her senior year,
Speaker 1: her cancer went into remission for the first time in
Speaker 1: more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.
Speaker 4: I just had a lot of fun that sematter. My
Speaker 4: hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my
Speaker 4: energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person.
Speaker 4: And like, now I'm not just going to a party
Speaker 4: to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of
Speaker 4: the house, like now I want to party, Like now
Speaker 4: I want to have fun. So I did. I felt
Speaker 4: like I deserved it.
Speaker 1: Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,
Speaker 1: Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which met in
Speaker 1: an old auditorium on campus.
Speaker 4: And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,
Speaker 4: can you stay after We need to talk to you.
Speaker 4: So they clear everybody out and now it's just like
Speaker 4: five or six women and me, and they're like all right, Rose,
Speaker 4: Like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to
Speaker 4: ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,
Speaker 4: we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I
Speaker 4: thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,
Speaker 4: you're asking me to step down as VP recruitment, Like
Speaker 4: the new girls love me. I'm great with the new girls.
Speaker 4: Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: we want you to resign from the organization. We want
Speaker 4: you to resign from Alpha Kai and I lost it.
Speaker 4: It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up
Speaker 4: with you, and like you get that cold feeling in
Speaker 4: your chest and you know that someone's about to look
Speaker 4: at you and say, like this isn't working.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It was like that times one hundred, Like now a
Speaker 4: hundred of my friends were all breaking up with me
Speaker 4: in a very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming,
Speaker 4: and I just kept saying, why, what do you mean
Speaker 4: you want me out? And this is when they just
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, it was like these women I'd
Speaker 4: known for years, they were strangers and there was no compassion,
Speaker 4: there was no kindness. It was you know what you did, Rose,
Speaker 4: you know what you did? And I was like, no, no,
Speaker 4: you have to tell me what did I do? Did
Speaker 4: something bad happen? Rose? We're not getting into it. You
Speaker 4: know what you did? And I'm just like, no, no,
Speaker 4: I don't know what I did. And at this point
Speaker 4: I am so distraught. I think I'm like hyperventilating and crying.
Speaker 4: I think I'm ugly crying. I think like snaw is
Speaker 4: just bubbling out of my nose and I don't have
Speaker 4: the wherewithal to demand answers. And I'm like, so that's it,
Speaker 4: We're done here. You want me out? And they're like, yeah,
Speaker 4: as of tonight, you are no longer affiliated with Alpha Kyomega.
Speaker 1: She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,
Speaker 1: She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and
Speaker 1: no one would tell her why.
Speaker 4: No one has ever told me?
Speaker 1: And did you ever pursue it further?
Speaker 4: God, yes, for years? Like, hey guys, it's been five
Speaker 4: years since we graduated college. I know this is kind
Speaker 4: of weird, but I still think about it. Does anyone
Speaker 4: want to tell me? I've like done the thing on
Speaker 4: Facebook where I've like made the big Facebook post where
Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, does everyone remember when Rose got
Speaker 4: kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you or anyone you
Speaker 4: know has any information, like I'm still dying to know.
Speaker 4: And then like dozens of my friends are like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm following this post. What was it?
Speaker 1: What was it?
Speaker 4: And still to this day, no answers and like you're
Speaker 4: racking your brain. I'm like, did I get black out
Speaker 4: drunk and sleep with someone's boyfriend?
Speaker 1: Did you ever see any other of the sisters get
Speaker 1: kicked out?
Speaker 3: No? No?
Speaker 4: And that's the thing is like, okay, let's not mince
Speaker 4: words here, like was Rosea party girl? Yes? Were there
Speaker 4: girls who were way worse than me?
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: And did they get kicked out?
Speaker 6: Never?
Speaker 1: Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes?
Speaker 1: Does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And with Jonathan
Speaker 1: quit before solving it. Never. Rose's college memories have all
Speaker 1: been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, But
Speaker 1: her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.
Speaker 1: They had to be past the college drama. So after
Speaker 1: Rose and I part I begin reaching out to them
Speaker 1: for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. I've
Speaker 1: been trying to get in touch Anita. I was trying
Speaker 1: to reach you there. Zoe, this is Jonathan Goldstein. We'll
Speaker 1: speak soon, Claire. I phone them in their cars.
Speaker 4: Hi, Hey, I want to say I've got my daughter
Speaker 4: walking into ballet class.
Speaker 1: Short. No, of course, I phone them in their homes.
Speaker 1: Do you have a minute to speak.
Speaker 4: I do, I have a toddler.
Speaker 1: To say, you know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, hy on.
Speaker 4: Sugar, because she just stole the bag of jellying. But yes, no,
Speaker 4: I cannot pick you up. I'm not picking you up. No,
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: But not one of Rosa's ex sorority sisters can tell
Speaker 1: me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,
Speaker 1: it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.
Speaker 1: There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but
Speaker 1: only a handful had been in the room when Rose
Speaker 1: was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.
Speaker 1: When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to
Speaker 1: call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,
Speaker 1: this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some
Speaker 1: time ago.
Speaker 4: Hello.
Speaker 1: I call back, and Amber apologizes for our being disconnected,
Speaker 1: but when I ask her why Rose was kicked out again,
Speaker 1: the line goes dead. This is odd odter Still is
Speaker 1: a conversation with an Alpha Kai sister a year younger
Speaker 1: than Rose. She says she inherited all the disciplinary documents
Speaker 1: from Rose's year, but that one file was missing, the
Speaker 1: one detailing why Rose had been kicked out. Things were
Speaker 1: beginning to feel Kolludi. Hello, oh hey Rose, Hi. I
Speaker 1: call Rose to update her, but it seems she's already
Speaker 1: gotten wind of my doings.
Speaker 4: So I think you must have been reaching out to
Speaker 4: a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 1: Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy
Speaker 1: snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly, a consensus was reached
Speaker 1: shut this guy out.
Speaker 4: Just the way that some of the girls were replying
Speaker 4: in the thread, it just felt like twelve years hadn't
Speaker 4: even passed.
Speaker 1: And how do you mean?
Speaker 4: It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like
Speaker 4: mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this
Speaker 4: whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.
Speaker 4: And then everyone just started to follow in line and
Speaker 4: be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not gonna
Speaker 4: call them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have to go over
Speaker 1: their heads.
Speaker 3: How Alpha ky Omega Headquarters This is season.
Speaker 1: The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick
Speaker 1: building at the end of a long tree lined cool
Speaker 1: de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ky
Speaker 1: Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,
Speaker 1: it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,
Speaker 1: the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.
Speaker 1: Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that
Speaker 1: comes up sometimes where people want to know why they
Speaker 1: might have been kicked out of a so or Is
Speaker 1: this unconnon?
Speaker 3: I would think most people would know why?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened in her case? This?
Speaker 4: This is a.
Speaker 1: Woman by the name of Rose Shapiro.
Speaker 3: And how do you spell her last name Shapiro?
Speaker 1: I think it's must be spelled s h A s
Speaker 1: H no s h A P s and Peter I
Speaker 1: R O H.
Speaker 5: Are you yeah?
Speaker 3: I did find her in here?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 4: Does it?
Speaker 1: Does it say anything with alongside her name?
Speaker 3: I'm just looking at a status So you're.
Speaker 1: So then there is some information alongside her name.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything
Speaker 3: about this. Remember, I wouldn't know her at all. And
Speaker 3: you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.
Speaker 1: Would if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would
Speaker 1: she be able to find out the information?
Speaker 3: I would think so sure.
Speaker 1: Mm hm, Well we'll just have to see. After the break,
Speaker 1: a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.
Speaker 3: Hey, Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.
Speaker 1: It going good? You ready to get some answers? I
Speaker 1: tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and
Speaker 1: we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll
Speaker 1: call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 4: All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna call right now, Alpha Kyle Mega Headquarters
Speaker 3: this season.
Speaker 4: Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.
Speaker 1: And lying on my stomach on the floor of the
Speaker 1: darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular
Speaker 1: girl as I play with the phone cord and silently
Speaker 1: nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.
Speaker 4: Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of
Speaker 4: Alpha ky Omega that Saya Sigma chapter.
Speaker 3: Okay, and what's your name?
Speaker 4: Rose Shapiro?
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, I'm gonna give you the Mendy tar water.
Speaker 4: Okay, before you transfer, I did have just one more
Speaker 4: question for you. Is there any way that you can
Speaker 4: just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as
Speaker 4: a member in good standing or as a former member?
Speaker 4: Is there even is there anyone?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it says that you're not
Speaker 3: in good standing. I wish I could help you, but
Speaker 3: I don't know that obviously. Here Mendy is out this afternoon,
Speaker 3: but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we leave a message
Speaker 3: with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you should do that.
Speaker 1: Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When
Speaker 1: she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.
Speaker 1: Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving
Speaker 1: voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the
Speaker 1: pan while listening in for emotionals.
Speaker 3: Okay, you're on Rose at the tone, Please record your message, Hei, Mandy,
Speaker 3: my name.
Speaker 1: Is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off to other
Speaker 1: people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.
Speaker 3: Let's try Gina. Hold on. Then someone named Eliza Eliza
Speaker 3: Paine is not available to take your call. Please leave
Speaker 3: a message after the tone.
Speaker 4: Hi Eliza, this is Rose Shapiro. Trying you again.
Speaker 1: One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,
Speaker 1: has been disappeared, possibly for saying too much.
Speaker 3: O Comega headquarters.
Speaker 4: This is Cynthia or.
Speaker 1: Susan had the day off.
Speaker 4: Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a
Speaker 4: former member.
Speaker 1: Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.
Speaker 4: Hi, Miny, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.
Speaker 1: In the end, after months of phone calls, Rose finally
Speaker 1: hears back from Alpha coy Omega headquarters. They pass along
Speaker 1: a single document, a letter did April twenty first, two
Speaker 1: thousand and five. The letter is brief, plainly stating that
Speaker 1: Rose Shapiro resigned from Alpha Kyomega of her own accord.
Speaker 1: They have no other information to share. We know now
Speaker 1: definitely that the only way that we're going to get
Speaker 1: anywhere with this is actually by finding a sorority girl
Speaker 1: who was there and willing to talk.
Speaker 4: Ah.
Speaker 1: Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to
Speaker 1: drop everything for one of my updates, now she was
Speaker 1: sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 4: I'm cutting potatoes, Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to
Speaker 4: make some mashed potatoes.
Speaker 1: Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.
Speaker 1: Recorded fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What
Speaker 1: are you cleaning out your fridge?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: I'm done.
Speaker 1: I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.
Speaker 1: But a couple of weeks later, I get a call
Speaker 1: from one of Rose's ex sorority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,
Speaker 1: Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the months
Speaker 1: she thought about it and had a change of heart.
Speaker 1: I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.
Speaker 1: As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.
Speaker 4: Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.
Speaker 1: All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.
Speaker 1: She was one of the six girls in the room
Speaker 1: who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,
Speaker 1: Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,
Speaker 1: and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,
Speaker 1: singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose
Speaker 1: at legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that
Speaker 1: since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us,
Speaker 1: she might be our last chance to get an answer,
Speaker 1: So during the conversation, we'd need to tread lightly, and
Speaker 1: I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.
Speaker 1: The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,
Speaker 1: plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for
Speaker 1: Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her
Speaker 1: for years? Why did you kick me out? So I
Speaker 1: decide that a code word is in order, a word
Speaker 1: I can use to signal to Rose that the time
Speaker 1: is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.
Speaker 1: Dinner party going too late and I want people out
Speaker 1: of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,
Speaker 1: and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word
Speaker 1: band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line
Speaker 1: while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,
Speaker 1: I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,
Speaker 1: and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been
Speaker 1: well worth it.
Speaker 4: Okay, what's the code We're going.
Speaker 1: To be so okay? So I I was thinking maybe
Speaker 1: medicine balls.
Speaker 4: No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code
Speaker 1: words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet, ou de toilette.
Speaker 1: That's very Canadian about How about if I were to
Speaker 1: say without a do or a don't? Is that something
Speaker 1: that people say, Oh, I'd say. Well, for the better
Speaker 1: part of an hour, Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes,
Speaker 1: we have no tomatoes, boy, or my dog's barking. Some
Speaker 1: people call me Maurice. Finally Rose is satisfied. How about
Speaker 1: I say, and so it goes. That's what I'll show
Speaker 1: and so it goes, and so it goes. Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: writing that down. So that's gonna be our code word. Okay,
Speaker 1: So when I say and so it goes, you're gonna say,
Speaker 1: you know, Tricia, like what just what happened? We had
Speaker 1: a plan, we had a code word. It was time
Speaker 1: for another word from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey,
Speaker 1: so I have I have Rose on the on the line.
Speaker 1: I think you guys can hear each other.
Speaker 2: Rose.
Speaker 3: Hi. Hi.
Speaker 1: It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia
Speaker 1: catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big
Speaker 1: talent show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member,
Speaker 1: and they were like, we've.
Speaker 5: Never done this before, but here you go.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did
Speaker 4: die for best New Member.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,
Speaker 1: and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after
Speaker 1: Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different
Speaker 1: person and started to veer onto what Tricia calls a
Speaker 1: bad past.
Speaker 5: I think you got angry, and not at certain people,
Speaker 5: but just that like the situation at life.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.
Speaker 5: It's not like you were like pushing people down or
Speaker 5: plunging them in the face. To me, I think that
Speaker 5: what I perceived was like partying with frattorney, like drinking
Speaker 5: a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like two
Speaker 5: big metal fingers up. That's just like yo, no one's
Speaker 5: gonna tell me what to do or how to live
Speaker 5: my life.
Speaker 4: I just have a perception of myself that's like, oh
Speaker 4: I be cancer, Like all bets are off, man, Like
Speaker 4: now I get to do what I want, like I
Speaker 4: did my time, Like now I'm like like if I
Speaker 4: want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to
Speaker 4: be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just beat cancer.
Speaker 4: Like like I think was there was you were.
Speaker 1: Separating, the conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence
Speaker 1: to battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate
Speaker 1: any further, something needed to be said. I think and
Speaker 1: and so and so it goes.
Speaker 4: I think that.
Speaker 1: Just Rose got the memo and was back on point.
Speaker 4: I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know
Speaker 4: if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,
Speaker 4: like I had no idea was coming.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could
Speaker 5: give you like a list of like this is what
Speaker 5: it was, this is what it was, this is what
Speaker 5: it was. I honestly like, can't.
Speaker 1: I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why
Speaker 1: she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants
Speaker 1: to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk
Speaker 1: about it, can't get into it.
Speaker 5: Like I wish I could give you a specific sentence
Speaker 5: of like at this Monty who said this, does that
Speaker 5: make sense?
Speaker 3: Like I don't know it.
Speaker 1: Wasn't making sense to me, and I worried that it
Speaker 1: wasn't making sense to Rose either, So I try to
Speaker 1: clarify literally, like, I'm not sure whether it's a matter
Speaker 1: of like you do know, but you feel an obligation
Speaker 1: to kind of hold the secrets of the story all
Speaker 1: these years later, Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Or yeah, no, I I and and maybe like I
Speaker 5: would say.
Speaker 1: No, like was there some kind of oath or something
Speaker 1: like that, or was it because you don't remember.
Speaker 5: Well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath. Everything
Speaker 5: that happens in here stays in here. And so there
Speaker 5: was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece to those meetings.
Speaker 1: I get the feeling that Tricia and the rest of
Speaker 1: her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets
Speaker 1: and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.
Speaker 5: This is I think the hardest thing was to think
Speaker 5: of the health of the chapter as a whole, and
Speaker 5: how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts
Speaker 5: like one or two people.
Speaker 1: By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.
Speaker 1: So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back
Speaker 1: in with her about how she felt the call went.
Speaker 4: I think it sounds like she has some memories, but
Speaker 4: she's not sure where she picked them up or who
Speaker 4: she's betraying. If she talked about them, She's always going
Speaker 4: to believe and everyone else in that room is always
Speaker 4: going to believe that there was something about my behavior
Speaker 4: that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority. And
Speaker 4: I mean, she almost called me a cancer. She almost
Speaker 4: said like for the health of the organization, I had
Speaker 4: to be removed. I don't think Truce is a bad person.
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a
Speaker 4: cool girl. But ultimately, what I got from her is
Speaker 4: that she doesn't think kicking me out with a mistake.
Speaker 1: For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,
Speaker 1: anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I
Speaker 1: phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people
Speaker 1: who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long
Speaker 1: shot they might have heard something. And then one day
Speaker 1: I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's
Speaker 1: college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when
Speaker 1: we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that
Speaker 1: seemed too strange to be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 4: Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.
Speaker 4: Drive through right now, real quick.
Speaker 1: Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with
Speaker 1: her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned
Speaker 1: up Rick. Okay, and one of the things though, that
Speaker 1: he shared with me and I wonder, I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like you must know this though we've not ever
Speaker 1: talked about it, is the fact that he was also
Speaker 1: kicked out of his fraternity.
Speaker 3: Holy shit, wait what yeah?
Speaker 1: Like at the time, he was also kicked out of
Speaker 1: his fraternity.
Speaker 4: Of k kicked out Rick neatering ouse.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the
Speaker 1: same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 1: Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked
Speaker 1: out in years, and he never got an answer as
Speaker 1: to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,
Speaker 1: one that explains why both of them got kicked out.
Speaker 1: I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good
Speaker 1: idea for her and Rick to talk.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we should make that happen. Hey, Jonathan, how are
Speaker 4: you good.
Speaker 1: I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you
Speaker 1: guys hear each other?
Speaker 3: Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1: Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting
Speaker 1: in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long
Speaker 1: after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.
Speaker 1: The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the
Speaker 1: first time they've talked about and kicked out. Right away,
Speaker 1: they start trading stories.
Speaker 7: Mine was just a phone call, and it was a
Speaker 7: phone call from one of our brothers that was founding father, Chaz,
Speaker 7: and just basically said, hey, you're you're done here.
Speaker 4: That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.
Speaker 4: That's so insane.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them
Speaker 1: talk about old times, eventually winding their way back to
Speaker 1: the days when they were a couple. When Rose was
Speaker 1: diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.
Speaker 1: He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After
Speaker 1: the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,
Speaker 1: Rick was the one waiting at home to look after
Speaker 1: her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember
Speaker 1: being were you scared at any point?
Speaker 6: Rick?
Speaker 1: Like, do you fear that like Rose was gonna die.
Speaker 7: Of course.
Speaker 8: I mean, you hear the word cancer and that that's
Speaker 8: obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.
Speaker 8: You know, we had been dating for a little bit,
Speaker 8: but it wasn't a great length of time before this
Speaker 8: even happened. So you know, you take those feelings that
Speaker 8: you have for somebody and I mean, you're still developing
Speaker 8: a relationship and then all of a sudden I go
Speaker 8: through and like, hey, you know you have cancer.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.
Speaker 4: It's terrifying. And I was like bald and my skin
Speaker 4: was turning gray, and like there he was like going
Speaker 4: to functions with me and being my boyfriend. And I
Speaker 4: remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo. I
Speaker 4: am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we go
Speaker 4: down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because it's
Speaker 4: right around my birthday. It's the beginning of July. And
Speaker 4: then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and the
Speaker 4: temperature dropped like a crazy amount. It downpours, We get
Speaker 4: completely soaked, and now there's like chemo, Rose is freezing.
Speaker 4: I have no immune system I'm just like teeth chattering.
Speaker 4: And so Rick took me over to the vendor area
Speaker 4: and he bought me this like had to tell windbreaker
Speaker 4: outfit of Darryl Earnhardt, juice. Do you remember that? I
Speaker 4: do you look?
Speaker 7: You look like you pretty much belong.
Speaker 3: With that fan base.
Speaker 4: I looked like a twelve year old boy who was
Speaker 4: sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friend.
Speaker 1: In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after
Speaker 1: her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,
Speaker 1: and although Rick was sad, he understood it.
Speaker 6: Rose needed to have some time to be able to
Speaker 6: go and experience life.
Speaker 7: And so when that took place, her and I split,
Speaker 7: and a.
Speaker 6: Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you
Speaker 6: split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to
Speaker 6: go and kind of live her life. Well that's kind
Speaker 6: of a shit way of doing it, because I mean, hell,
Speaker 6: didn't you take care of her?
Speaker 7: Yeah, But I mean she's got she's got to figure
Speaker 7: herself out. We both got it, but we got it,
Speaker 7: and nobody else really understood.
Speaker 1: Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after
Speaker 1: he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends
Speaker 1: were mad at Rose and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,
Speaker 1: and each side started rumors about the other, and in
Speaker 1: that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.
Speaker 1: It was like the breakup version of the Gift of
Speaker 1: the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory
Speaker 1: seems to click for Rose.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I
Speaker 4: am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought
Speaker 4: that maybe I had done him wrong or something could
Speaker 4: have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt
Speaker 4: like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up
Speaker 9: to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,
Speaker 9: going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,
Speaker 9: and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.
Speaker 9: Her was cheating on you for you know, the two
Speaker 9: months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap
Speaker 9: You remember Trip, Oh yeah, he was the one kick
Speaker 9: comes by my apartment one time.
Speaker 7: He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She
Speaker 7: was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on the.
Speaker 1: Stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a lot
Speaker 1: of Ros's sorority sisters were beginning to think about her
Speaker 1: after her cancer went into remission, that she was too wild,
Speaker 1: too much of a partier. But how do you kick
Speaker 1: out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority. It's
Speaker 1: a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,
Speaker 1: if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through
Speaker 1: her illness. These rumors must have been just what the
Speaker 1: sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral
Speaker 1: high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's
Speaker 1: sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick
Speaker 1: saw the experience as having changed her back to the
Speaker 1: person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.
Speaker 6: So when she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,
Speaker 6: Thank Really, you're.
Speaker 9: Gonna You're gonna go that route because that's that's not her.
Speaker 1: Rose. Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best. So
Speaker 1: I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.
Speaker 1: I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard
Speaker 1: for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.
Speaker 1: But how lately, looking at old photos of the band
Speaker 1: with Pete Best hunched in the background. It all seems
Speaker 1: a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs
Speaker 1: of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,
Speaker 1: Like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,
Speaker 1: And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why
Speaker 1: was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he
Speaker 1: just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle.
Speaker 4: I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I
Speaker 4: think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.
Speaker 4: I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put
Speaker 4: into words or a definition what made them similar and
Speaker 4: made me different, But I just know that I was different.
Speaker 3: Rose.
Speaker 1: Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,
Speaker 1: that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?
Speaker 4: God?
Speaker 1: Probably.
Speaker 4: I think I was doing a really good job of
Speaker 4: trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: my best behavior, but I think that like the real
Speaker 4: me just kept like cracking out, and then once once
Speaker 4: after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, uh,
Speaker 4: let's not put on airs anymore. Like I am who
Speaker 4: I am, and I was trying really hard to like
Speaker 4: cram myself into that mold, and it just wasn't fitting,
Speaker 4: Like it just wasn't working.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I think, like in having spoken to quite
Speaker 1: a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none
Speaker 1: of them sound like you. No, and I mean that.
Speaker 1: I mean that in a nice way.
Speaker 4: No, I'm totally down with that. Like I'm a fucking
Speaker 4: maniac and that's who I am, and I've come to
Speaker 4: fully embrace that right now, Like I'm really cool with
Speaker 4: who I am.
Speaker 1: Well you know, I'm I'm I'm uh, I'm cool with
Speaker 1: who you are. Also, thank you. Years after getting kicked
Speaker 1: out of the Beatles, Pete Best said he was still
Speaker 1: hopeful that maybe one day he'd find out why. Maybe
Speaker 1: I'll run into Paul, he said, and we can talk
Speaker 1: about it. If decades from now, Rose should run into
Speaker 1: one of her sorority sisters, I hope she won't need
Speaker 1: to talk about anything other than the weather or what
Speaker 1: she's making for supper, and then she could say or
Speaker 1: goodbyes and get back to chopping, banking and basically being
Speaker 1: the maniac that she is.
Speaker 3: Now that the furnitures returned to it's goodwill, Now that
Speaker 3: the last month's rent is scheming with.
Speaker 1: The damage to po take this moment to sell.
Speaker 4: If we meant it, if we talk, we felt around
Speaker 4: for far.
Speaker 2: From things that accidentally.
Speaker 3: Rose.
Speaker 4: Yes, Hi, Hi, there's a siren going back.
Speaker 1: I know there's always there's always so much going on
Speaker 1: in your life. Let me start with the question that
Speaker 1: probably everyone is curious about. Have you, in the intervening
Speaker 1: years have you run into any of your sorority sisters.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: It was kind of a secret wish, like maybe someone
Speaker 4: will hear the podcast and they'll finally fess up to
Speaker 4: what was going on. Yeah, but I haven't like bumped
Speaker 4: into one in town who told me like, oh, this
Speaker 4: is what happened.
Speaker 1: It was also uh, as the kids would say, sus
Speaker 1: it's a it's.
Speaker 4: A very insular world. And I think the biggest takeaway
Speaker 4: I have from that whole sorority debacle is that, for
Speaker 4: whatever reason, I didn't assimilate, And instead of being frustrated
Speaker 4: by that, I've now kind of carried it like a
Speaker 4: badge of honor. I'm not putting any energy trying to
Speaker 4: fit a square peg into a round hoole these days.
Speaker 1: Do you feel as though you've put something to rest?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it feels it feels very far away.
Speaker 1: Now, what do you think that owes to maturity?
Speaker 4: Distance?
Speaker 3: Time?
Speaker 1: Time is the great interlock? Hutter? Absolutely, I could have
Speaker 1: just stayed out of the way, basically, and just let
Speaker 1: nature take its course, and it would have been just
Speaker 1: as successful.
Speaker 4: I would have got here on my own.
Speaker 1: What are you drinking there?
Speaker 4: Some mint tea little herbal tea in the afternoon.
Speaker 1: Wow, you've really become so mature.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've mellowed out a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, can I ask you a question? Does Rose
Speaker 1: still refer to herself and the third person.
Speaker 4: Jonathan?
Speaker 2: Not as much?
Speaker 1: Not as much.
Speaker 4: I gotta admit I should bring it back.
Speaker 1: Rose should Yeah?
Speaker 4: Rose likes this suggestion.
Speaker 1: There we go. How did that feel?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 4: A little uncomfortable?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with another Encore presentation and
Speaker 1: along with it, another update from our guest.