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Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright Side, it's

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Speaker 1: Wellness Wednesday, and we're going on a journey to joy

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Speaker 1: and self discovery with Laura McCowan. She's the author of

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Speaker 1: We Are the Luckiest and Push Off From here. Laura's

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Speaker 1: joining The bright Side to show us how her path

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Speaker 1: to sobriety led her back to herself, and she's offering

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Speaker 1: us all tips on how to remove the roadblocks that

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Speaker 1: are keeping us from living our best lives. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: August seventh. I'm Simone Boyce.

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Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from

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Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to

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Speaker 2: share women's stories, to laugh, learn and brighten your day.

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Speaker 2: Today's Wellness Wednesday is presented by Coligard. Okay, So, when

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Speaker 2: Simone and I started creating The bright Side with our

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Speaker 2: production team, one of the goals that we had was

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Speaker 2: to set out to produce a show that shared women

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Speaker 2: stories from all over the globe, different walks of life.

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Speaker 2: And when I think about why, I guess I can

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Speaker 2: only answer personally, and for me, it's that women's stories

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Speaker 2: have guided me my entire life.

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Speaker 3: When I was at some of my saddest moments.

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Speaker 2: Other women's stories comforted me, and when I was at

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Speaker 2: my highest moments, they guided me too. If you need

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Speaker 2: to figure out how to get an agent, it's in

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Speaker 2: a woman's memoir. If you need to learn how someone

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Speaker 2: else got through divorce, it's in a woman's memoir. Our stories,

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Speaker 2: as unique as they are, are so universal too. And

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Speaker 2: so today we have the opportunity to hear a story

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Speaker 2: that we haven't covered yet on the show, a story

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Speaker 2: about addiction and sobriety.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a first for us, and we are

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Speaker 1: thrilled that Laura McCallan is the one to kick off

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Speaker 1: this conversation and share her story. Because Laura talks so

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Speaker 1: openly about her struggles with alcohol and her path to sobriety,

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Speaker 1: and now hundreds of thousands of people both online and

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Speaker 1: in bookstores, turned to her on their own recovery journeys.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, she founded The Luckiest Club. It's an

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Speaker 1: online global sobriety support group where she helps users navigate

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Speaker 1: their new lives and answers questions like will sobriety end

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Speaker 1: my relationship?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: She's put a lot of that wisdom down on the page.

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Speaker 1: She's the best selling writer of two books, We Are

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Speaker 1: the Luckiest, The Surprising Magic of a Sober Life, and

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Speaker 1: push off from here. Nine essential truths to get you

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Speaker 1: through sobriety and everything else. Don't worry, we are going

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Speaker 1: to be covering those truths with Laura today. And on

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Speaker 1: top of all that, she teaches a course called the

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Speaker 1: Bigger Yes, she's got retreats. It's all an invitation to

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Speaker 1: help us choose our own potential, and she's here with

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Speaker 1: us now. Laura McCowan, Welcome to the bright Side.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks for having me. We're happy to have

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Speaker 3: you here.

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Speaker 2: And Laura, you have a really big anniversary coming up.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be ten years sober in September. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that's got to feel pretty amazing. Congratulate, Thank you. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's wild. If you can take us back. I have

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Speaker 2: something I call PSA pre self actualization. I went through it,

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Speaker 2: I'd say about five years ago. I committed to going

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Speaker 2: to therapy pretty regularly. I read a bajillion books. You

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Speaker 2: had a moment of PSA pre self actualization one night,

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Speaker 2: and I'm wondering if you can take us back to

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Speaker 2: that night that set you on a path to sobriety.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 4: So in July of twenty thirteen, I was at my

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Speaker 4: brother's wedding and my daughter was four years old at

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Speaker 4: the time, and she was the flower girl in the wedding.

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Speaker 4: I had separated from my husband at that time, we'd

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Speaker 4: been separated for a year, so it's just me and

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Speaker 4: her going to the wedding, And that night I drank

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Speaker 4: too much and blacked out and left my daughter alone

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Speaker 4: in a hotel room overnight and didn't discover that till

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Speaker 4: the morning, until I received texts from my family members,

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Speaker 4: my mom and my brother.

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Speaker 3: My daughter had luckily made it back to them.

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Speaker 4: But that was the most terrific morning of my life

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Speaker 4: for sure. And until then I had had a lot

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Speaker 4: of consequences for my drinking, but I really still thought

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Speaker 4: nothing bad would happen to her, like I wouldn't put

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Speaker 4: her in danger, and I did, because that's how it goes.

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Speaker 3: There are no things that won't happen.

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Speaker 4: So it was a wake up call, of course, and

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Speaker 4: because my family was aware of it, I couldn't just

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Speaker 4: hide like I had so many other things. I couldn't

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Speaker 4: just forget about it or sweep it under the rug,

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Speaker 4: and I started a week later. I went to my

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Speaker 4: first twelve Step meeting in Boston, and I didn't get

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Speaker 4: sober until a year later. It was really hard to

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Speaker 4: pull myself into sobriety and so PSA time. Is interesting

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Speaker 4: because it does don't happen all at once, right, It's

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Speaker 4: a journey.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's a lifelong journey, to be honest,

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Speaker 2: The more I know, the more I realize I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Much at all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think when you recount that story, for

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Speaker 2: anyone listening who doesn't know about the rest of it yet,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty guttural, like it's hard to listen to when

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Speaker 2: you recount the story.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel?

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Speaker 4: That's a great question. I have talked about it so

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Speaker 4: much because that's what I learned in recovery, is that

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Speaker 4: there are no secrets anymore. All the parts of my

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Speaker 4: history and all the parts of me belong. It doesn't

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Speaker 4: feel good to talk about it, but I don't feel

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Speaker 4: the shame that I felt at that time.

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Speaker 3: It took something like that to get me to wake up.

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Speaker 4: As horrific as that was, I am equally as grateful, Laura.

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Speaker 1: We all will go through extreme challenges in this life,

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Speaker 1: and for some of us, our worst nights are going

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Speaker 1: to happen in private. Maybe it's a breakup, maybe it's

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Speaker 1: a really difficult conversation. But for you, the worst night

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Speaker 1: and morning of your life happened publicly in front of

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Speaker 1: your friends, in front of your family at this wedding,

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Speaker 1: and of course in front of your four year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: who is greatly impacted by it, and so thinking about

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Speaker 1: how confronting that must have been, like you couldn't hide anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I also know that as a mother, there is

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Speaker 1: a really big difference between shame and a mother's shame.

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Speaker 3: For us, it just hits a little bit different.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, mom shame is like acidic and it just goes

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Speaker 4: to the core of everything we think we know about

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Speaker 4: what good people do and don't do. And when it

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Speaker 4: comes to addiction, I have always said there is a

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Speaker 4: special vitriol for mothers who drink. It goes against everything

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Speaker 4: that we've been told. It is true about what love

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Speaker 4: is and what mothers are supposed to be able to do,

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Speaker 4: and we never let mothers off the hook. But man,

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Speaker 4: if you are a mom who happens to fall into addiction,

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Speaker 4: it kills people because the shame is intolerable and you

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Speaker 4: get it from not only the inside, but the outside too.

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Speaker 4: There's really no compassion coming your way except from other

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Speaker 4: mothers who have been there. I mean, I had to

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Speaker 4: dissociate from the full experience of that for a while

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Speaker 4: until I was able to handle it, because if I

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Speaker 4: would have allowed myself to feel that in my body,

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't have been able to continue on. And in

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Speaker 4: that meantime, I was met by other women who told

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Speaker 4: me that, yeah, yeah, I've done that too.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing how shame becomes less potent whenever you're in

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Speaker 1: a healthy community and a community that you see yourself in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is life saving, Berne Brown says. And I

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Speaker 4: always think of this. If you put shame in a

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Speaker 4: Petrie dish, it require three things to go out of control,

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Speaker 4: and that silent, secrecy, and judgment. And so when you

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Speaker 4: are in community, it alleviates the shame.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the most courageous parts of healing

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Speaker 1: is actually doing nothing at all or acquires nothing from us.

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Speaker 1: It's sitting with the emotions instead of running from them

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Speaker 1: and trying to numb them and cover them up. And

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Speaker 1: I think if we're all being honest like that, is

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Speaker 1: it can be a big motivator for drinking, for any

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Speaker 1: kind of substance. So when you pulled the alcohol away,

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Speaker 1: when you took it away, what did you discover when

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Speaker 1: you finally stopped running and had to sit with what

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Speaker 1: you were running from.

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Speaker 4: So the first thing I noticed is my feelings were

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Speaker 4: really uncomfortable. There's a saying that they come out sideways

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Speaker 4: when you're newly sober, and so I had a lot

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Speaker 4: of rage. For me, drinking was a way to swallow

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Speaker 4: anger and discomfort, and so a lot of things that

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Speaker 4: I hadn't been able to or chose not to put

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Speaker 4: a voice to prior to stopping drinking started to come out.

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Speaker 4: I started to get really angry about alcohol culture because

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Speaker 4: even though I was the one who with the quote

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Speaker 4: unquote problem, everyone around me drank a lot, and if

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Speaker 4: they didn't drink a lot, they were running in other ways.

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Speaker 4: And there was this profound unfairness that I felt. But

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Speaker 4: then there's also grief giving up alcohol. There's a grief

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Speaker 4: period that you go through if you let go of that,

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Speaker 4: because it's an identity, and it's also who get defines

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Speaker 4: who you hang out with, how you connect with people,

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Speaker 4: how you socialize, how you prioritize your time. For a

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Speaker 4: lot lot of people, it's connected to intimacy with.

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Speaker 3: Their partner or dating.

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Speaker 4: It's connected to celebrations, it's connected to how you mourn.

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Speaker 4: Really touches so much. So many areas of our lives

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Speaker 4: that are about connection. So that was a lot of

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Speaker 4: what I went through is just this sadness, like where

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Speaker 4: do I belong now? Who will want me?

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Speaker 2: Will I be boring when you talk about the alcohol culture. Personally,

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Speaker 2: I dealt with an eating disorder in seventh and eighth

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Speaker 2: grade and to this day, however, many twenty something years later,

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Speaker 2: when people talk about food in a certain way, I

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Speaker 2: feel stuff come up in me. I think it lives

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Speaker 2: within you forever, and you just learn to live with

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Speaker 2: it in a different way. I heard Glennon Doyle say

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Speaker 2: something one time that I've never forgotten and I don't

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Speaker 2: quite understand. I'm wondering if you can kind of expound

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Speaker 2: on it for me.

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Speaker 3: She said that people who.

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Speaker 2: Have attended AA are the only honest people she's ever met.

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Speaker 2: Was that your experience and what did she mean by that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: What she meant and what my experience has been is

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Speaker 4: most of the time when we're walking around in the world,

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Speaker 4: we're not really telling the truth about what's going on

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Speaker 4: inside of us. There's a culture of secret keeping. Appearances

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Speaker 4: must be upheld. The way we measure success is by

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Speaker 4: a lot of outward measures. And the thing why I

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Speaker 4: say we are the luckiest when it comes to addiction,

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Speaker 4: which sounds like a bumper sticker, but it isn't. It's

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Speaker 4: because when you come up against something like addiction, it

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Speaker 4: brings you to your knees and it forces you to

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Speaker 4: stop lying. So when you walk into an AA meeting

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Speaker 4: for the first time, it is the most bizarre thing

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Speaker 4: because pele are just casually talking about the worst moments

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Speaker 4: of their lives and the hardest things they've ever been through,

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Speaker 4: and that's the norm.

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Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break, but we'll be

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Speaker 2: right back with Laura McCollen. And we're back with Laura McCallen.

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Speaker 1: I think we can all benefit from the principles that

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Speaker 1: have guided your recovery. And that's exactly what you're doing

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Speaker 1: through this class that you teach called the Bigger Yes.

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Speaker 1: So how does the Bigger Yes offer all of us

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Speaker 1: an invitation?

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Speaker 3: Laura?

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Speaker 4: So the Bigger Yes came to me in early sobriety,

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Speaker 4: because I felt like all this potential that I had

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Speaker 4: when I was drinking, that was hidden when I was

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Speaker 4: drinking and that I was tamping down, started to come

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Speaker 4: forward when I got sober. And for me, it was writing.

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Speaker 4: I had always wanted to write, and it was something

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Speaker 4: I wanted more than drinking, which there weren't many things.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lesson about delayed gratification in there too,

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Speaker 1: because the smaller, easier yes is drinking, but the bigger

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Speaker 1: yes that requires you to delay those desires in the

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Speaker 1: moment is writing.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's the short game versus the long game. And

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Speaker 4: the short game drinking is always going to be good,

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Speaker 4: and it's even going to be actually fun for most

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Speaker 4: of us and not have huge consequences. But what does

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Speaker 4: it mean if you are Let's just use drinking as

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Speaker 4: an example, but it could be anything. It could be

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Speaker 4: scrolling on your phone endlessly or whatever. You feel good

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Speaker 4: in the short term, but in the long term you

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Speaker 4: don't get to play that long game because you're.

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Speaker 3: Not available for it.

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Speaker 4: Right And the quote that turned it around for me,

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Speaker 4: I was in this book shop after I had gone

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Speaker 4: to this like yoga workshop and I was twenty days sober, terrified,

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Speaker 4: out of my mind, and I picked up this book

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Speaker 4: called The Great Work of Your Life by Stephen Cope

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Speaker 4: and open to this page, and on the page was

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Speaker 4: a quote by the Gospel of Thomas. It said, if

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Speaker 4: you bring forth what is within you, what you bring

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Speaker 4: forth will save you. And if you do not bring

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Speaker 4: forth what is within you, what you do not bring

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Speaker 4: forth will destroy you. And that was it for me.

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Speaker 4: It was like, Yeah, this unused potential that we each

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Speaker 4: have is not benign. When we don't live into that,

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Speaker 4: it turns into something dark, and it looks like depression.

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Speaker 3: It looks like despair. It looks like.

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Speaker 4: We know we know inside when we are not living

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Speaker 4: the way that we could. And what I mean by

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Speaker 4: that is not like, oh, you could be making more

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Speaker 4: money or you could be having this very outwardly important

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Speaker 4: job in the world.

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Speaker 3: It's really just internal. It's being who you actually are. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a ligne.

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Speaker 4: It's integrity, yes, and telling the truth about who you

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Speaker 4: actually are. And see what happens when you start doing

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Speaker 4: that living into that.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the three most common regrets that people

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Speaker 2: share at their end of life, meaning that they didn't

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Speaker 2: live the truth of who they are. They lived for

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Speaker 2: other people, for their parents, for their husband or wife, etc. Now,

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Speaker 2: talking to you today, Laura, I can tell that truth

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Speaker 2: and untruth. It's almost like an image for me with

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Speaker 2: the scales. That's how important it is to you. I

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Speaker 2: can tell. And you have a book called Push Off

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Speaker 2: from Here, Nine Essential Truths to get you through sobriety

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Speaker 2: and everything else. Can you share those nine truths and

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Speaker 2: how you came up with them?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I got sober in twenty fourteen. In twenty

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Speaker 4: sixteen and seventeen, I had been writing on a blog

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Speaker 4: mostly for all those years. I also did a podcast

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Speaker 4: about sobriety. So I had started to build a little

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Speaker 4: bit of a following. And I would get letters from

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Speaker 4: people who are either struggling with addiction or you know,

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Speaker 4: someone they knew was or something. And I got a

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Speaker 4: letter from this sister who her sister was struggling with alcohol,

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Speaker 4: and she was in that place where people go when

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Speaker 4: someone they love is caught an addiction. She was angry

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Speaker 4: and scared and sad and frustrated, and of course wanted

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Speaker 4: to help her sister but didn't know how. So she

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Speaker 4: wrote me this long letter and said what should I

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Speaker 4: say to her? And I wrote her a long letter back,

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Speaker 4: and I said, if all of that is too much,

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Speaker 4: just give her this list. And the list was the

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Speaker 4: nine things that ended up being pushed off from here.

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Speaker 4: And number one is it's not your fault. Two is

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Speaker 4: your responsibility? Three is it's unfair that this is your thing?

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Speaker 4: But four this is your thing. Five this will never

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Speaker 4: stop being your thing until you face it.

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Speaker 3: Six you can't do it alone. Seven only you can

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 4: Eight I love you, and nine I will never stop

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Speaker 4: reminding you of these things.

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Speaker 3: And that was in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 4: In twenty twenty, when I published Well We Are the Luckiest,

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Speaker 4: my first book, that was the epigraph to the book,

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Speaker 4: the little quote that appears in the very beginning, and

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Speaker 4: people gravitated towards that. There was like a whole book

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Speaker 4: to read, but people would often want to interview if

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Speaker 4: you me or talk to me about those nine things.

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Speaker 4: And so when I founded a sobriety support community in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty, I made those sort of our are sort

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Speaker 4: of backbone, and we read them at the end of

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Speaker 4: every meeting.

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Speaker 2: I hear you saying that other people gravitated towards them,

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Speaker 2: and they meant a lot to other people in the community.

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Speaker 2: But as you spoke them, you started breathing differently, and

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Speaker 2: I could tell they mean a lot to you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they do.

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Speaker 4: It was I have gone back to them again and

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Speaker 4: again and again for different things. You know, I'm six

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Speaker 4: months out of an engagement, ending a four your relationship,

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Speaker 4: and facing a whole new era of you know what

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Speaker 4: my thing is right now?

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Speaker 3: So I have leaned on them again and again myself

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Speaker 3: because it doesn't end. You know.

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Speaker 4: It was alcohol, and then it was then it was

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Speaker 4: other things, and it will always be that way, you know.

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Speaker 4: So there are nine things that I think we never

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Speaker 4: stop leaning on and learning, and their paradoxical. You can't

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Speaker 4: do it alone. Only you can do it. It's not your fault,

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Speaker 4: it is your response. It's kind of everything I know

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Speaker 4: about what we have to hold simultaneously when we go

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Speaker 4: through change.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry that you're going through change again. It's really frickin' hard,

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Speaker 2: it is.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: It's time for another short break, but don't go anywhere

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Speaker 1: because we'll be right back with Laura mcowan.

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Speaker 3: And we're back with Laura mcowan. I have a personal

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Speaker 3: question for you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's more asking for a friend.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: Everybody in my life tells me I need to do

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Speaker 2: two things meditate and journal. Okay, I don't do either

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Speaker 2: of those things. I have like gems in my notepad.

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Speaker 2: You say that journaling can be a really powerful tool

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Speaker 2: for people in recovery as well as people that are

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Speaker 2: looking for that bigger Yes, what am I missing out on?

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the journey?

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, yeah, So I don't like saying that. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's that this is the thing that will work for everybody.

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Speaker 4: Nothing is like that. But there are a few things

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Speaker 4: that I feel like can benefit a lot of people,

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Speaker 4: most people, and journaling is one of them. And this

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Speaker 4: is why when we journal, and especially if we're writing

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Speaker 4: on paper versus typing, because it's more embodied and it

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Speaker 4: utilizes a different part of our brain. We are bringing

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Speaker 4: what is unconscious into consciousness. And it's an accessible, anytime, anywhere,

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Speaker 4: any day type of thing.

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Speaker 3: You can do. It's free, which is one of the

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Speaker 3: things I like.

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Speaker 4: It's like you don't have to have resources to pull

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Speaker 4: out a pen and paper and so many of the

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Speaker 4: things that we the wellness bullshit that we say people

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Speaker 4: have to do is not accessible totally. So I think

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Speaker 4: of journaling as this like conversation between me and maybe

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Speaker 4: my higher self, me and wisdom whatever. It's not necessarily

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Speaker 4: a higher power thing, but it's like a conversation. Sometimes

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Speaker 4: I'm listening, sometimes I'm asking, Sometimes I'm just documenting things

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Speaker 4: to get them out of my body. So one of

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Speaker 4: the things that I think is so enormous, and it's

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Speaker 4: part of push off from here, is that our bodies

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Speaker 4: have to be included in our healing and in our process,

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Speaker 4: in our day to day feeling and processing of emotions,

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Speaker 4: and we neglect that. And so writing is an embodiment

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Speaker 4: practice too. It's not really it's a mind thing, but

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Speaker 4: it's so much more of an embodiment thing. And so

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Speaker 4: you get that going to it brings the body in.

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Speaker 2: Are there any other tools that you found really helpful

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Speaker 2: for you in a journey of self discovery?

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Speaker 1: Time and again, for me, a.

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Speaker 4: Movement is like the number one, And I think part

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Speaker 4: of that is just because because I have a lot

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Speaker 4: of energy, like anxiety, just energy in my body that

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Speaker 4: has to move and so physical. I don't even want

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Speaker 4: to call it exercise because that sounds unappealing to so

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Speaker 4: many people.

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Speaker 3: But just movement walking.

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Speaker 4: I have been in this season of my life lifting

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Speaker 4: heavy things like you.

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Speaker 3: I never thought that I would want to do that.

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Speaker 4: I was always a runner, and oh my god, it

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Speaker 4: is just it is everything for my brain. So for me,

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Speaker 4: that has been a constant tool and mainstay of my

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Speaker 4: mental health. Really, I'm a sort of spotty meditator, so

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Speaker 4: I can't I would.

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Speaker 3: Love to say, yeah, meditation, but I go in and

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Speaker 3: out of.

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Speaker 4: It, and I think, again, it's one of those things

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Speaker 4: that depending on the type of person you are, like

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Speaker 4: sometimes a lot of times my exercise, my movement is

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Speaker 4: the meditation. Right, those are the big things, and then

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Speaker 4: the other I was a huge thing that I find

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Speaker 4: very annoying because I am not a joiner and I

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Speaker 4: just still want to think that I can do things alone.

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Speaker 3: Is community and being with people.

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Speaker 4: Really connection with other people, and allowing myself to not

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Speaker 4: be a teacher and a leader in a space and

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Speaker 4: just be a person.

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Speaker 1: Laura, congratulations again on such a huge achievement. Your sobriety

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Speaker 1: journey is very inspiring, and thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us on the bright side and sharing your story.

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Speaker 3: Oh thank you Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Laura mcowan is the author of We Are the Luckiest

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Speaker 2: and Push off from here.

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Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're talking Modern Manners

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Speaker 1: with etiquette expert Sarah Jane Hoe.

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Speaker 2: follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok.

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00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok.

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Speaker 3: That's ro b A. Y See you tomorrow, folks. Keep

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00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 3: looking on the bright side.