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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brasso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: At ninety seven years old, former President Jimmy Carter is

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Speaker 1: stepping into a legal fight that puts his landmark Conservation

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Speaker 1: Act in jeopardy. In a Nilka, the Alaska National Interest

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Speaker 1: Lands Conservation Act established more than a hundred sixty two

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Speaker 1: thousand square miles of national park lands in the state,

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Speaker 1: and more than thirty years later, Carter remembered how difficult

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Speaker 1: it was to get the law passed. Well, it was

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Speaker 1: a hard ball of four years time I proposals, and

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Speaker 1: at the time environmentalists applauded the law, but many Alaskans

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Speaker 1: did not. Protection reminds all the people there because they

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Speaker 1: were so curious we had passed were and so they

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Speaker 1: had a one of those things where you throw baseballs

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Speaker 1: and the picture one of them on the other and

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Speaker 1: nobody were to throw in bibleball. In March, a three

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Speaker 1: judge panel of the Ninth Circuit upheld a Trump era

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Speaker 1: land swap that would allow the tiny isolated town of

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Speaker 1: King Cove to build a road through the Ismbek National

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Refuge, which more than two hundred species from brown

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Speaker 1: bears to Pacific salmon call home. In a rare move

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Speaker 1: for a former president, Carter found a brief supporting conservationist

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Speaker 1: requests for the full Circuit to re hear the case, saying,

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Speaker 1: unless reversed, it would open tens of millions of acres

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Speaker 1: of public lands for adverse to development, joining me as

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Speaker 1: environmental law professor Pat Parento of the Vermont Law School,

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Speaker 1: that it's not often that a former president puts himself

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Speaker 1: in the middle of a legal battle. The reason Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Carter waited in I was in d C during the

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Speaker 1: debate on what we call a nilk of the Alaska

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Speaker 1: Lands Bill, which Jimmy Carter famously signed, saving over a

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Speaker 1: hundred million acres of pristine wilderness in Alaska. And this

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Speaker 1: road was part of the deal. So the deal and

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Speaker 1: a nilka was you were going to put this road

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Speaker 1: through the Tongas national for us. So that's why Carter

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Speaker 1: waghed in and say, wait a minute, you're renegging on

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Speaker 1: the agreement that we reached way back in what nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, not seventy nine. So this was part of

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Speaker 1: the grand compromise on the Alaska Lands Bill, and that's

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Speaker 1: why he weighed in the way he did. Do you

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Speaker 1: agree with the argument that if this ruling is allowed

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Speaker 1: to stand, then future secretaries of the Interior, future administrations

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Speaker 1: could use this as a precedent to start carving up

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Speaker 1: the land. You know, it creates a loophole, and you

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Speaker 1: have to look at every instance of can you use

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Speaker 1: the loophole to do something that wasn't anticipated by the agreement?

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Speaker 1: You know, in each case is different, But yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: any time you go back and revisit what I think

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Speaker 1: it's fair to say that there was an agreement at

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Speaker 1: that time that the Tongus was going to be left intact.

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Speaker 1: It's the largest, by the way, the largest carbon forest

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Speaker 1: in North America. It's that kind of really unique resource.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, anytime you know, you can revisit a deal

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Speaker 1: and open it up for further discussion, that raises the

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Speaker 1: question of whether any deal is ever sacristact. It seems

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Speaker 1: like it would be something the Ninth Circuit would take

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Speaker 1: on bank since it was a two to one decision. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was kind of out there from the academic analysis,

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Speaker 1: you know, the people that study that particular road project

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Speaker 1: and its history have that the ninthir could should In fact,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole group of law professors. I want them

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Speaker 1: signed an amicust brief saying you really should take another

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Speaker 1: look at this because it goes against the deal that

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Speaker 1: was cut back in the seventies. Tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about why you think the ruling of the

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Speaker 1: three judge panel was not correct. But they didn't give

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Speaker 1: it really any difference to the original agreement that this

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Speaker 1: forest was not going to be opened up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: anytime you put a major road into a forest, you

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Speaker 1: change it forever. I mean you get all kinds of

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Speaker 1: traffic and all the activities that are associated with that.

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Speaker 1: You know, roads introduced invasive species. There's all kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that happened. You know, you access remote areas where

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Speaker 1: they're grizzly bears and wolves, and then there's poaching, and

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Speaker 1: so there's all kinds of negative consequences from roads. It

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Speaker 1: isn't just the road itself, it's what the road brings

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Speaker 1: into the forest. I will say that the native corporations

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Speaker 1: that want this road, they have a legitimate argument that

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Speaker 1: they will do certain kinds of economic incentives as part

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Speaker 1: of the Anelka deal back in the seventies. I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure they got everything that they were entitled to. But

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Speaker 1: whether or not this road is really going to make

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Speaker 1: the big difference for them or not is also in dispute.

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Speaker 1: A better outcome would be look at what these communities

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Speaker 1: that live in this forest area needs for economic development

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Speaker 1: and provide it, but don't necessarily conclude a road is

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Speaker 1: the answer to every question. Well, we'll see if the

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Speaker 1: full Ninth Circuit takes the case. Pat, I want to

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Speaker 1: turn now to another long running environmental dispute in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: that concerning Bristol Bay. The Biden administration has taken a

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Speaker 1: major legal step to protect the Bristol Bay Watershed, one

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Speaker 1: of the world's most important salmon fisheries US depth that

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Speaker 1: will likely mean the end of a controversial mining project.

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Speaker 1: Pat tell us about the environmental importance of Bristol Bay.

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Speaker 1: It's the most pristine salmon watershed, certainly in the United

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Speaker 1: States or the North American Connent. You could even argue

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Speaker 1: in the world. It supplies of the stock salmon, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the most prized commercial and recreational species

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Speaker 1: of salmon. So I mean, it's just unmatched. There's really

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Speaker 1: only one ecosystem like this of its kind. Enter Pebble

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Speaker 1: Mind project. What is it and why has it been

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Speaker 1: so controversial for decades? I guess well, it's a major

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Speaker 1: deposit of copper, silver and other metals that, of course

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Speaker 1: are much in demand, and of course copper is a

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Speaker 1: key element of batteries which we need for electric vehicles.

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Speaker 1: So one of the arguments in favor of the Mind

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Speaker 1: has been, you know, if by And is serious about

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Speaker 1: moving us in the direction of electric vehicles, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: need more copper. And the response to that, I think

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Speaker 1: has been, well, there's a lot of copper in the world,

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Speaker 1: but there's only one Bristol Bay watershed. But it's an

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Speaker 1: enormous economic resource. The extraction process is pretty dramatic. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know this is this is open pit, very deep

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Speaker 1: excavation in an area where there's literally pristine, no roads,

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Speaker 1: no support facilities. You'd have to do all that. You

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Speaker 1: have to build railroad, you'd have to build highways, you

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Speaker 1: have to build jetports to get people in and out,

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Speaker 1: helicopter pads and so forth. So it's a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: That's why it's that's so controversial, and the Pebble Mind

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Speaker 1: Partnership has been fighting it for I don't know two

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Speaker 1: decades now, and they show no signs of giving up.

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Speaker 1: They're threatening to go to court. There's no surprise there.

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Speaker 1: So you know, whenever there's that much money, billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars at stake, you're going to see controversy. There's an

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Speaker 1: opposition from a lot of diverse groups, from Alaska Native communities,

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Speaker 1: from environmentalists, from the fishing industry. It was abandoned under

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Speaker 1: President Obama. Why are there still a fight about it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Obama exercised what was called a preemptive veto under section

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Speaker 1: four oh four C of the Clean Water Act, which meant, um,

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Speaker 1: the Obama administration actually got out in front of the

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Speaker 1: permit process for the mine, and there hadn't even been

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Speaker 1: a final mining plan proposed by the company. So there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of litigation over while you jumped the

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Speaker 1: gun here Obama and the courts began to you know, intervene,

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Speaker 1: and they said you violated something called the Federal Advisory

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Speaker 1: Committee Act so forth. So it was tangled up in

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Speaker 1: litigation right from the get go. And then of course

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration came in and announced that they were

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Speaker 1: withdrawing the the to, but then it reversed its position

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Speaker 1: famously when Don Trump Jr. Who likes to fish in

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Speaker 1: Bristol Bay Watershed, said no, no, no, this is a

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Speaker 1: really important resource dat you should not let this mind

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Speaker 1: be built. So then the Trump administration reversed its position,

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Speaker 1: which actually then led the Corps of Engineers to deny

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Speaker 1: a permit for the mine, and then enter the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: which now, of course, is finally decided we're simply going

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Speaker 1: to designate the Bristol Bay Watershed as off limits to

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Speaker 1: not just mining, but to the kind of dredging and

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Speaker 1: filling activity that any kind of mining project would require.

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Speaker 1: Over two thousand acres of wetlands would have to be

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Speaker 1: destroyed for starters to conduct this mining. So so that's

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Speaker 1: where we are today. The Biden administration has said, we've

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Speaker 1: seen your plan, and we're saying no to your plan,

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Speaker 1: and we're basically saying no to any other kind of

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Speaker 1: plan like it in this watershed. And what legal authority

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Speaker 1: are they using. They're using Section four oh four C

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Speaker 1: of the Clean Water Act, which Congress added in nine

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Speaker 1: two as a check on the Core of Engineers authority

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Speaker 1: to permit activities that involved disposals of dredge and film

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Speaker 1: material into the waters of the United States. There's only

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Speaker 1: been of these four O four C vetos issued by

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Speaker 1: e p A over the years, so it's very rarely employed.

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Speaker 1: I was actually involved in one of them in New England,

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Speaker 1: involving a veto over a proposed mall development by the

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Speaker 1: Pyramid Mall Company of New York in a place called Attleborough, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: So it's a rare form of e p A authority.

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Speaker 1: But the courts have upheld it over and over again,

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Speaker 1: and they've said e p A can use it either

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Speaker 1: before there's a permit issued, or after a permit is issued,

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Speaker 1: or even some times years after a permit is issued

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Speaker 1: if there's still ongoing harm. And e p A is

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Speaker 1: the one who determines is the level of harm to fisheries,

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Speaker 1: for example, unacceptable. That's the way the law defines it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, have said it's really up to e p

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Speaker 1: A to decide what is and isn't acceptable impact on

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Speaker 1: fishery resources. And in the case of Bristol Bay, e

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Speaker 1: p A has said the kind of impact you're talking

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Speaker 1: about with this massive mind is unacceptable. Are they accepting

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Speaker 1: public comments at this point, Yes, it's still a proposed

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Speaker 1: action not final yet, so it's not even subject to

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit yet. And as you mentioned, the comments are

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Speaker 1: are coming in. I think probably you could say overwhelmingly

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Speaker 1: in support of the veto, but not not universal. You know,

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Speaker 1: the congressional delegation in Alaska has always been split. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're caught between the mining company, you know, that want

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Speaker 1: to extract this valuable resource and put some people to work,

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Speaker 1: whether their Alaskans or not, and the fishery interest in

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Speaker 1: the native corporations, the people in Alaska that are very,

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Speaker 1: very heavily dependent on the Bristol Bay resource. So you know,

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Speaker 1: the politics of this are really tricky for Senator Murkowski

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Speaker 1: for example, and you know she's come out and said, well,

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Speaker 1: we should have really strict limits on whether there should

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Speaker 1: be mining. And I'm not in favor of just any

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Speaker 1: kind of mining, but maybe there's some kind of mining

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Speaker 1: that could be done. So that's the nature of the

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Speaker 1: politics of the issue right now. So those comments are

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Speaker 1: coming in. The comment period will close in a month

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Speaker 1: or so, and then E p A will issue a

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Speaker 1: final decision. The final decision is going to be a

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Speaker 1: veto or a prohibition on the mining, and then there'll

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Speaker 1: be litigation over it. So as far as litigation, I mean,

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Speaker 1: both federal and state agencies have found that this would

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Speaker 1: mean irreparable harm to the ecosystem. What does the mining company,

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Speaker 1: you know, Pebble mind project they suit based on what

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Speaker 1: what would their arguments be? Well, their legal arguments are

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Speaker 1: going to be very difficult, frankly, because there's a Fourth

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Speaker 1: Circuit decision, and that's a conservative circuit in which the

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Speaker 1: court ruled the Congress has really vestedt e p A

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Speaker 1: with the final word on whether something is acceptable or

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Speaker 1: not under this four oh four c veto power. So

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Speaker 1: that stands right now as the president on this. So

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Speaker 1: you know, for the mining company to argue this is

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Speaker 1: a valuable resource, it will employ a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: it will send revenues to to the Alaska state government.

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Speaker 1: You know, those are all policy arguments, and those are

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Speaker 1: the kinds of arguments they're making now. But when it

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Speaker 1: comes to whether e p A has the authority to

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Speaker 1: do what it's doing, very limited review, particularly in the

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Speaker 1: Ninth Circuit of course, which is where this will go.

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Speaker 1: As we always like to say these days, all bets

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Speaker 1: are off if and when the case gets to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, that may be a different you know venue

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Speaker 1: there in a different way of looking at the law,

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Speaker 1: but right now the state of the law is strongly

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Speaker 1: an e PA's favor of saying, given the unique, valuable

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Speaker 1: nature of this watershed and the tremendous impacts that a

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Speaker 1: huge copper mind would have on it, it's up to

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Speaker 1: e p A to decide this is just too much,

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Speaker 1: too great an impact, and we're going to use the

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Speaker 1: authority Congress gave us to say. So. Does it make

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Speaker 1: a difference that the Pebble Mind Project is a Canadian

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Speaker 1: owned company? Not really. There's no bias either in favor

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Speaker 1: of US companies or against non US companies, so the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's it's Canadian owned doesn't make a difference.

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Speaker 1: There's another big copper mine in Arizona that hut Bay

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Speaker 1: is a Canadian company that wants to mine copper in

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Speaker 1: the Santa Rita Mountains of Arizona. So no, those Canadian

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Speaker 1: companies are entitled to come to the United States, acquire

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Speaker 1: ownership in these resources, and then apply for permits. They're

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Speaker 1: subject to US law, of course, but they're entitled to

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Speaker 1: do that. After this litigation over the proposed rule. Once

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Speaker 1: the rule becomes final, you'd think that that would be

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Speaker 1: the end. But this doesn't ever seem to end, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as long as that valuable deposit is there,

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find. You know, these these mining

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Speaker 1: companies play the long game. If they lose this round,

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Speaker 1: they won't necessarily quit or go away forever. They'll wait

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Speaker 1: for another administration to come to power perhaps and come

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Speaker 1: back with maybe a modified proposals that has perhaps greater

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Speaker 1: political support than this one. So no, I like to

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Speaker 1: say it's never over. You know, you're you're very used

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Speaker 1: to say it ain't over till it's over. I add

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Speaker 1: add to that, it's these environmental battles. They'd literally go

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Speaker 1: on forever. As long as there's this valuable deposit just

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Speaker 1: sitting there, and as long as there's a demand as

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Speaker 1: there is for these minerals, you're going to see people

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Speaker 1: trying to mine it. Thanks so much, Pat. That's environmental

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Speaker 1: law professor Pat Parento of the Vermont Law School. It

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Speaker 1: was a controversial referendum, but could it be the start

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Speaker 1: of a trend with a broader backlash for progressive district attorneys.

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Speaker 1: San Francisco residents voted to recall Chessa Boudin, a progressive

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Speaker 1: district attorney who sought to reform the city's criminal justice system,

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Speaker 1: but met fierce opposition from critics who painted him as

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Speaker 1: too soft on crime in a city that's been plagued

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Speaker 1: by hate crimes against Asian Americans, drug use on the streets, homelessness, shoplifting,

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Speaker 1: car break ins. It was a heated campaign that divided

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Speaker 1: Democrats over crime, leasing, and public safety reform. In a

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Speaker 1: concession speech, Boudin pointed to voter frustration. Voters were not

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Speaker 1: asked to choose between criminal justice reform and something else.

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Speaker 1: They were given an opportunity to voice their frustration and

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Speaker 1: their outrage, and they took that opportunity. And I want

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Speaker 1: to be very clear about what happened tonight. The right

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Speaker 1: wing billionaires outspent us three to one. They exploited an

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Speaker 1: environment in which people are appropriately upset. Now the focus

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Speaker 1: is turning to l A County's progressive d A, Charles Gascon,

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Speaker 1: who is also trying to reform criminal justice and is

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Speaker 1: at odds with law enforcement. A recall effort is underway

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Speaker 1: for Gascon as well. Joining me is David Lee, the

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Speaker 1: executive director of the Chinese American Voters Education Committee and

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Speaker 1: a lecturer in political science at San Francisco State University,

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Speaker 1: David what does it take to get a referendum like

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Speaker 1: this on the ballot in San Francisco? Thousands signatures were

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Speaker 1: needed to be gathered to place the ballot measure on

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Speaker 1: the San Francisco ballot. There were two separate efforts. One

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Speaker 1: of the effort failed and then the second effort succeeded.

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Speaker 1: You know, San Francisco is considered a liberal city, supportive

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Speaker 1: of reforms, and he was obviously elected. What happened? San

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Speaker 1: Francisco voters are well known for being progressive of supporters

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Speaker 1: of progressive causes of reform of particularly criminal justice reform. However,

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Speaker 1: the pandemic really changed the political environment in the city.

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Speaker 1: Um namely, crime has been on everybody's mind to be

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Speaker 1: replaced social justice and many of the progressive concerns as

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Speaker 1: a top concern of voters, and voters are telling us

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Speaker 1: in poll after poll, during and after the height of

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Speaker 1: the pandemic that crime was a number one concern And

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Speaker 1: that is the market change in uh San Francisco voter

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Speaker 1: attitudes brought on by rising anti Asian hate crimes that

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Speaker 1: have been seen on social media widely brought on by

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Speaker 1: the explosive growth of the homeless encampments, open drug dealing

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Speaker 1: that had taken over the Tenderloin neighborhood in the heart

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco's downtown area, by very highly publicized criminal

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Speaker 1: events that were captured on video, such as the looting

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Speaker 1: of stores in Union Square that was widely circulated and

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Speaker 1: in fact the nationally televised, and which created this sense

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Speaker 1: amongst the electorate that crime was out of control in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco and they couldnot feel People did not feel

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Speaker 1: safe in their own homes, and that was particularly true

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Speaker 1: of Asian Americans who have seen all through the pandemic

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Speaker 1: arise in anti Asian hate and crimes targeted at Asian Americans. So,

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Speaker 1: to answer your question, the voter attitudes have changed dramatically

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic. Did he refuse to prosecute certain crimes?

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Speaker 1: I mean, was his tenure one that possibly lead to

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Speaker 1: more crime? Or was he unfairly blamed for the spike

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Speaker 1: in crime? Well, I think all of the above. I

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Speaker 1: think also the above has happened in this case where

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Speaker 1: absolutely a case can be made that Chester Boudine was

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Speaker 1: unfairly blamed for many of the failures in our criminal

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Speaker 1: justice system and in crime prevention that that voters were

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Speaker 1: angry about, particularly in the Asian American community. Given that

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system is more than one man or

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Speaker 1: one office. It is the courts, it's the Sancisco Police Department,

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Speaker 1: it is the mayor. There are many components to the

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Speaker 1: criminal justice system. And I think a case can be made,

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Speaker 1: and we shall see in the next six months whether

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Speaker 1: it was unfair to blame all these ills on one person.

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Speaker 1: We were going to have a new district attorney in

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Speaker 1: very short order appointed by Mayor San Francisco, and we

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Speaker 1: will see in the next six months if there's going

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Speaker 1: to be any change in what the voters are seeing.

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Speaker 1: So Number one, yes, a case can be made that

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Speaker 1: he was unfairly targeted. However, it is also true that

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Speaker 1: there have been very high profile cases where Chester Budin's

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Speaker 1: office was seen as failing to act, particularly in the

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Speaker 1: cases of anti Asian hate and of failure to punish

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Speaker 1: or to hold responsible accountable criminals who committed atrocious acts

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Speaker 1: against Asian Americans. UH. And I think a recent story

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Speaker 1: in the San Francisco Standards showed that he had failed

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Speaker 1: to charge the majority, the vast majority of anti Asian

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Speaker 1: hate cases with actually hate crime, which I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of Asian Americans were pretty compounded by, why wasn't

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Speaker 1: this done? I mean, it's pretty surprising after only a

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Speaker 1: few years in office that six of voters voted to

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Speaker 1: recall him, and you also had the recall last year

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Speaker 1: for the governor of California. Are these recalls the work

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Speaker 1: of a particular conservative group, you know, targeting liberals? I

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Speaker 1: think it's unrelated. First of all, the recall of the

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Speaker 1: governor was a statewide effort completely different and separate from

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Speaker 1: what we saw with the recall effort against Chester Boudins.

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Speaker 1: Different players. Chester Boudin's recall was largely local in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: heavily supported by the Asian American community, whereas the statewide

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Speaker 1: recall against the governor was driven by other actors and

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Speaker 1: other players and other issues, and I think it would

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Speaker 1: be incorrect to say that they were part of the

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Speaker 1: same force. I would say, however, that the recall against

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Speaker 1: Chester Boodin was very much, very similar to the recall

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Speaker 1: of three San Francisco school board members, which took place

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Speaker 1: just a few months ago in February, where three sitting

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Speaker 1: school board members were recalled through a petition process largely

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Speaker 1: driven and supported by the Asian American community. Asian American

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Speaker 1: voters voted at a much higher rate in that election

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Speaker 1: than the city as a whole, and there was a

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Speaker 1: concerted effort to get out and turn out Asian American

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Speaker 1: voters for the recall those school board members. And we're

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Speaker 1: looking at the data today it looked like many of

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Speaker 1: those same voters, those same precincts came out and voted

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Speaker 1: in favor of the recall of CHESSA. Boudine. But I

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Speaker 1: think is a closer linkage between those two recall local

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Speaker 1: recall efforts then the gooperdatorial recall that happened last year.

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Speaker 1: Why were the school board members recalled? The three school

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Speaker 1: board members were recalled because of what many Asian American

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Speaker 1: voters felt was a failure of the school board to

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Speaker 1: act on reopening the schools and getting students back into classrooms.

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Speaker 1: And then very much so the loal the case of

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Speaker 1: low admissions where uh local high school is our high achieving,

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Speaker 1: very well known performance academic performance high school in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: and the school board change the admissions process to no

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Speaker 1: longer require admissions test, and that caused great segments of

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Speaker 1: the Asian Americans community to rise up and to demand

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Speaker 1: a recall of the school board members. So Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: voters advanced a billionaire Rick Caruso to a runoff from

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Speaker 1: may or after he made public safety a central part

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Speaker 1: of his campaign. So are we seeing this as a

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Speaker 1: broader narrative safety? I think crime has risen to the

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Speaker 1: top of voter concerns. I think that is happening in

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Speaker 1: Democratic strongholds like UH, Los Angeles and San Francisco. I

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Speaker 1: think is demonstrates really a mood of anger and of

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Speaker 1: urgency that voters are demanding from their city officials, from

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Speaker 1: their officials, their leadership, to do something about crime and homelessness,

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Speaker 1: which is closely linked to how how voters feel about crime.

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Speaker 1: That those two issues need to be addressed, and voters

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Speaker 1: are tired of the excuses and they want change. There

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Speaker 1: is deep anger when you have to recall elections in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco three recalls if you include the governor recall

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Speaker 1: UH in just a matter of a few months. The

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Speaker 1: electorate is angry. That's why you have recall elections, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that there were two successful recalls in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco in a row in a matter of months, when

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Speaker 1: the previous twenty five or thirty years we never even

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Speaker 1: saw a recall make it onto the ballot, let alone.

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Speaker 1: When pass, I think speaks to the amount of anger

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Speaker 1: that voters are feeling, and that the failure of city

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Speaker 1: Hall and of our elected officials, UM and the political

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Speaker 1: establishments to listen to the concerns of everyday voters. And

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Speaker 1: that's what you what you saw in this recall. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've seen progressive prosecutors elected in cities like New York, Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: and Chicago. And I know that at least in New York,

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Speaker 1: where I live, there was a backlash from the very

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Speaker 1: beginning of Alvin Bragg's tenure over his policies to downgrade

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Speaker 1: or not prosecute certain crime. And you had recently the

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Speaker 1: Mayor Eric Adams saying that no one takes criminal justice seriously.

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Speaker 1: But of course in New York we don't have the

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Speaker 1: ability to recall a prosecutor. Well, and I will say

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Speaker 1: that in San Francisco, on the same ballot as the

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Speaker 1: recall of Chester Boudine, there was a ballot measure placed

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Speaker 1: on the on the ballot by the Border Supervisors members

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Speaker 1: of the Border Supervisors that would have changed the recall

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Speaker 1: process in San Francisco, that would have this allowed the

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Speaker 1: two recall how it been in place and it's failed. Sound.

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Speaker 1: The voters not only voted in favor of the recall

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Speaker 1: of the district attorney, they voted overwhelmingly against the ballot

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Speaker 1: measure that would have reformed the repall process, making it

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Speaker 1: impossible um for the two recalls that have happened to happen.

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Speaker 1: So I think voters are demanding that they have they

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Speaker 1: retained that power of recall and demanding the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: keep our politicians accountable for the d A. At least,

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Speaker 1: law and order is the definition to me of the

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Speaker 1: role of the d A. Do you think this is

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Speaker 1: the beginning of a backlash against progressive prosecutors. I think

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Speaker 1: it's the beginning of voters demanding accountability. Uh. And as

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Speaker 1: I've said, the district attorney, one person who was District

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Speaker 1: Attorney h Chester Boudine is now recall and voters are

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Speaker 1: are looking for improvement. If we do not see a

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Speaker 1: change in the next six months, don't be surprised if

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Speaker 1: voters will be looking at the mayor and at other

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Speaker 1: leaders at city Hall as of why changes did not happen,

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Speaker 1: especially since the mayor have picked the replacements for the

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Speaker 1: school boards and the district attorney. So now all eyes

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Speaker 1: are on the mayor and people who have voted. I

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Speaker 1: want accountability. I think that is the message that is

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Speaker 1: being sent loud and clear two elected officials all across

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Speaker 1: the country. Voters demand accountability in their elected leaders. Was

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Speaker 1: there tension or conflict between Boudin and the mayor, because

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Speaker 1: in New York there's definitely mentioned between Bragg and the mayor. Yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: there there is tension. There have been a publicly reported

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Speaker 1: stats between the two. But now he's been removed from office,

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Speaker 1: so and the mayor will appoint the replacement. So um,

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Speaker 1: if things don't change, the mayor will own criminal justice

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Speaker 1: reform in San Francisco and voters will be looking at

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Speaker 1: her for accountability. Any final thoughts well, I think also

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Speaker 1: I would say the other unique thing that happened in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco was the rise of Chinese and Asian American voters.

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Speaker 1: Chinese and Asian American voters in San Francisco have become

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Speaker 1: a political force in the last six months like I've

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Speaker 1: never seen it before. Not only are they reaching critical

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Speaker 1: master over of the registered voters and when they actually

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Speaker 1: turn out and vote, there as much as of all

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Speaker 1: votes cast, which really make a big difference in elections.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that the Democratic establishment and elected leadership

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Speaker 1: overwhelmingly opposed the recall of the district attorney, and yet

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Speaker 1: this constituency rose up and defeated the establishment and passed

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Speaker 1: the recall. I think is a wake up call for

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Speaker 1: the entire political establishment in San Francisco, and people are

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Speaker 1: paying attention now to Asian American voters. It is a

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Speaker 1: political earthquake in the city. Thanks David. That's David Lee,

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Speaker 1: executive director of the Chinese American Voters Education Committee. And

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Speaker 1: that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Lawn Show.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg