1 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. As we 2 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: record this episode, there are currently fifty states in the Union. 3 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 1: Only fifty. Feels like there'd be more. It feels like 4 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: there should be more. And it's strange when we think 5 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: about how recently some of those states were added, you know, 6 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: like in our earlier podcast about Vermont, when we talked 7 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: about the former Kingdom of Hawaii. That's right. I think 8 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: wasn't it only in the fifties that those two were added? 9 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: I think Alaska and Hawaii were the last two by 10 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: the way, Yes, who are you man? Are? Oh? That's right, 11 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm Ben and we are joined, of course, with our 12 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram hahai. I think was in um 13 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: when was it? Specifically? It was in the fifties. It 14 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: looks like it's fifty nine here. According to my handy 15 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 1: dandy research materials, Alaska and Hawaii were given statehood in 16 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: that same year. But we've got sixty years in the interim, 17 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: and and I haven't heard about any new states in 18 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: a minute. My last time I checked, I don't know 19 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: about you back. Yeah, it's a it's kind of a bummer, right, 20 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: because how exciting and strange. It must have been to 21 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: be alive at a time when an extra star too 22 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: was added to the flag. That's nuts. Yeah, I'd just 23 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: be irritated for all those people that have the flags 24 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: with the fifty stars and get at the flag. Now 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: the guy who owns the flag factor and you're the 26 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: woman who owns the flag factor doesn't seem tenable. Actually, 27 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: remember in a recent episode we had about Vermont, The 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: question I think I posed was how do you succeed? Exactly? Like, 29 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: what's the process for that? Is it even possible? And 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: we kind of came to the conclusion that yes, in 31 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: theory it's possible, but it doesn't really happen that way, right, No, 32 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's it's easy to propose the intention to succeed, 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: but it's difficult to succeed successfully. You are, that was 34 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: King My Man was tough. Are we also going to 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: get to check off a bunch of state episodes and 36 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: one go in this episode today? Holy smokes, do you 37 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: think it counts for I don't know it does. Because 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: our rules were going to be that they had to 39 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: be focused on one a little cheap to do it 40 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: this way, and they also have to be real States 41 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: spoiler to anyone who didn't read the title of today's episode. 42 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: Today we are exploring states that were almost states or 43 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: proposed ghost states. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, just how 44 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: about this the United States that never were there? We go, 45 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: that's good. That's got a touch of poetry to it. 46 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, we along with some help from 47 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: our fantastic research associate Christopher Hasciotis of Louis Louis fame. 48 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: Does he have a sound effect yet? Maybe it's maybe 49 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: it's Louis Louis, I don't know. Whatever, man, let's leave 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: it the casey, but I think he needs one. And 51 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: now Pronto agreed. We found We started digging into this, 52 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: and we thought maybe we would find one or two 53 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: proposed states that for one reason or another didn't work out. 54 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: Not the case. The case. We found so many, so 55 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: many in fact, that we cannot We cannot do them 56 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: all justice in a single episode, or we might just 57 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: brush over them because they have a fun name. Some 58 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: of the stories behind these are a little drier than others, 59 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: and some of them are, you know what we would 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: consider the caliber of ridiculousness that we strive for on 61 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: this show every week. Yes, so what do you want 62 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: to kick off with first? No, I think it's fine 63 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: for us to sort of jump around here. Yeah, I 64 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: think so too. Across style criss cross will make you 65 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: want to jump around the line. I think in honor 66 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: of our dear friend F. Scott Benjamin, we should go 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: with Scott. Yes, it is true Scott. That was the 68 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: name of a state. The full name, I believe was 69 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: the Free and Independent State of Scott. Is that correct? 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: I think it such sounds like a pleasant place to live. 71 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm filtering that through the lens of 72 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin, who can do no wrong. If he was 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: a state, I would live there. Yeah. I would have 74 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: loved to be in that Scott state of mind. Yeah. 75 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: The state of Scott got its namesake from Scott County, Tennessee, 76 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: because the county itself, I believe, decided to seceed from 77 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Tennessee in protest of Tennessee seceding from the United States. 78 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: The problem here is that they can that county government 79 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: unilaterally we succeed. It's not as if the rest of 80 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: Tennessee was on board with it and they wanted to 81 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: become an uncleaved community of the Union. But oddly enough, 82 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: it kind of sort of technically a little bit succeeded 83 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: for a while, succeeded, well, I guess maybe kind of. 84 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: We don't want to We don't want to confuse anybody, 85 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: the least of all me, because I get confused. I 86 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: get words mixed up with Yeah, but this is the 87 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: Civil War and the free and independent State of Scott 88 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: It sounds so so nice. It wasn't again founded during 89 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: the Civil War because Scott County wasn't down with Tennessee 90 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: joining the Confederacy, or they had no interest in joining 91 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: what's called the Confederate States of America, which for some 92 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: reason I never thought of it in those terms, but 93 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: obviously that makes sense. It's the states that wanted to 94 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: succeede from the Union and form their own country and 95 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: did and did unrecognized, but they did form a very 96 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: short lived eight eight six. That's right, you're talking about 97 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: the s Yeah, yeah, So Scott County was not down 98 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: with that because people most people that lived there were 99 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: not plantation holders, were slave owners, and they had the 100 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: majority um interest here, and so they just weren't down 101 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: with joining it, and so they wanted to remain a 102 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: Union state, which is like anomalous in a state like Tennessee, 103 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: which would have been firmly as a whole pro Confederacy, right. 104 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's weird because it's relatively rare for us 105 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: to see entirely, entirely unanimous decisions. That's true. It's like 106 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: with the Maryland episode, where I assumed Maryland was going 107 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: to be more like New York or more like you know, 108 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: the North and be pro union, but in fact they 109 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: were kind of in the middle where there was a 110 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: contingent on both sides. But that's true everywhere. We start 111 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: to think geographically in terms of like everyone is a 112 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: certain way, and then we know that's not the case. 113 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: But one thing that the people of Scott County it 114 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: seems pretty unanimous on, was that they were again it. 115 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: They were not having it. On June eighth, eighteen sixty one, 116 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: they decide that they are going to succede. But then 117 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: a really fascinating thing happens because they made a proclamation 118 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: to the government of the state saying, yo, this is 119 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: what we're doing. We're out. And what did Tennessee do? Nothing? Nothing? 120 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: They ignored it. They when we say ignored, we have 121 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: to underline the incredible extreme to which they ignored this. 122 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: Not only did they not object, they didn't respond at all. 123 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: They were busy in the Civil War. And also, you 124 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: know this, this should be said, the state of Scott, 125 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: Scott County. It's like right on the northern border of 126 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: modern day Tennessee. That's mountain country. And it wasn't it 127 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: wasn't a real hot spot for the battles of the 128 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: Civil War. So it would have largely remained kind of 129 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: an unnoticed that's own little enclave, right, little island in 130 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: the stream. But man, you would think, okay, okay, they 131 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: would ignore it for until the war settled down, right, 132 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: like by eight seventy No, no, not the case, right 133 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: nineteen hundred. I think we gotta keep prices right in 134 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: this one. Alright, we're playing games here. It was six 135 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: we're right, yeah, Like that was like I was born in. 136 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: So there was this forgotten lost state of Scott, the independent, 137 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: the free and independence state of Scott, which sounds delightful, um, 138 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: But it's funny too because they actually had to request 139 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: of Tennessee to be readmitted, right, yes, and they held 140 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: a h This has such a nice ending. The State 141 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: of Tennessee even held a little party a little shin 142 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: dig welcoming Scott back into the state of Tennessee. The 143 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: thing is, though, like it goes both ways, because not 144 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: only did Tennessee not acknowledge them, it didn't really grant 145 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: them their state hood. So was it ever really a state? No, 146 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: it's just the proclamation just stayed on the books. But 147 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: think about it would be very difficult to enforce that 148 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: because to be your own state you have to have 149 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: all this infrastructure and legislature that not only did they 150 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: not have what was probably uncalled for given the population 151 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: and what kind of population do you think we're talking. Yeah, 152 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: as of two thousand and ten, the population of modern 153 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: day Scott County is twenty two thousand people. It surely 154 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: would have been less in the civil ward. Yes, certainly. 155 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: That is the story of Scott County, which I thought 156 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: was a really nice one. Yeah, a k a. The 157 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: the Free and Independent State of Scott just no formerly 158 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: known as the Free and Independent State of Scott. And 159 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: you can tell that we just fell in love with 160 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: saying that name. But that's far from the only state 161 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: we found. There were a couple that really caught your 162 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: interests to that you you were sending me some stuff 163 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: about off air, Yeah, think mainly there's a lot of 164 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: fun things about this one. But the first one for 165 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: me is the fact that the name as spelled not 166 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: You're never gonna say it right unless you read somewhere 167 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: and how to say it right. Um, So I'm gonna 168 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: say it how it looks on paper, and then I'm 169 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: gonna backtrack and find the pronunciation and say, I actually 170 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: swopos to pronounce it, but on paper it looks like 171 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: absaroka yep, but I believe it's abs sorca ab sorca 172 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: abs sorca. So like you know, if you're looking at pronunciation, 173 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: guys like ab lowerks dash capital sort for the for 174 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: the emphasis and then uh absorca um. And this revolves 175 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: around New Deal politics. What's new deal politics? Then New 176 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: Deal politics. It's it's an umbrella term that describes a 177 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: series of different programs and public works policies, and then 178 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: also financial reforms that occurred from three to nineteen thirty six. 179 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: Very dr yeah, very popular with the poor and disenfranchise, 180 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: largely unpopular with the wealthy and delete yeah. It's sort 181 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: of smacks of like socialism in a way, Like I 182 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: think it gets a bad rapper people sort of use 183 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: the the S word when describing it that they're you know, 184 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: trying to abuse it. Right. So, this particular state that 185 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: Never was revolves around New Deal politics and the fine 186 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: people of South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming. Right. So, Um, 187 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: there's a place called Sheridan, Wyoming. And back in nineteen 188 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: thirty nine, on the cusp of World War Two, you 189 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: had a state that was largely unconcerned or unaffected by 190 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: these New Deal policies that were being put in place. 191 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: And that's because they were an agrarian community. They they 192 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: you know, actually, the way it's described in this incredible 193 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: article from the New York Times called a state that 194 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: never was in Wyoming, Um, they grew grass, which sounds 195 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: really boring. Do you watch it grow like livestock? One 196 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: would have me exactly. They are described as having a 197 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: grass culture. Um. And there's a quote in this article 198 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: from a guy named Ken Kerns, who is a rancher 199 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: lived most of his life in this area, and he 200 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 1: said the grass culture people who make a living from 201 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: growing grass or from the animals that eat the grass. 202 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: And that was what the idea behind this Obsorca community 203 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: would be so you know, the folks of Wyoming, Um, 204 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: there were there's obviously two sides of this. There's a 205 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: more grarian side, and then you've got the southern part 206 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: where you've got the railroad and that's where like the 207 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: seat of government was, and apparently that's still You've got 208 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: the other side that would have been more republican. And 209 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: then the side that I'm talking about with the you know, 210 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: the city centers and the more um the equivalent of 211 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: an urban center in Wyoming, which isn't gonna be the 212 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: same as you know, Atlanta or New York or Los Angeles. 213 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: And those left wing liberals are controlling. They are a 214 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: lot of the states economy. They are. But apparently the 215 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: other folks and the other part of the country had 216 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: been more typically Republican and they felt like FDR maybe 217 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: could offer them something because, like you said, Ben, the 218 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: depression had hit everyone and there was concern for what 219 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: what are we gonna do to help, you know, make 220 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: lemons into lemonade? So what happened? Can you take us 221 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: back to the explosive tipping point moment in Sheridan, Wyoming, Yeah, 222 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: I can. Um. Here is this guy by the name 223 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 1: of A. R. Swickerd um and he uh had had 224 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: a career in baseball. Um, I don't know if he 225 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: was in like the farm leagues or I don't think 226 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: he was in the majors, but i've i've i've read 227 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: him describes there's not a whole heck of a lot 228 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: about this guy. But he also was something called a 229 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: street commissioner. You know what the street commissioner has been? Yeah, man, 230 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: they commissioned streets. Okay, well it's it's like a you know, 231 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: this is conjecture. If you are a street commissioner, please 232 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: write in and tell us about your day to day job. 233 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: From what our understanding. From my understand, at least, a 234 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,119 Speaker 1: street commissioner is kind of a manager of municipal affairs 235 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: to some degree, right, I know, that's very vague. Yeah, 236 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: I've got here on a kind of a career site. 237 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: A job as a street commissioner falls under the broader 238 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: career category of general and operations managers. Still vague. Sort 239 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: of a city planner, I think, maybe kind of type 240 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: city official exactly. So, this guy SWICKERD SWICKERD SWAGGERD Jimmy 241 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: swagger SWICKERD A R. SWICKERD. Former baseball player former street commissioner. 242 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: Now we know a little bit what that is. Um. 243 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: He was kind of fed up with the way the 244 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: money that was coming into improvement projects that the New 245 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: Deal supported, like infrastructure and generated jobs by doing these 246 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: big infrastructure improvements, whether it was roadways or railroads or 247 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: anything like that. And that kind of infrastructure in Wyoming 248 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: was on the other side went to the fat cat 249 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: fat cats exactly. And it just there was a sense 250 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: that the working types, like the you know, the rangers, 251 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: that weren't getting any of this cash. They weren't getting 252 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: any benefit from this New Deal stuff, so they were 253 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: like what gives And this guy Swickert was able to 254 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: kind of key in on that and start this movement. Right. Yeah, 255 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: he appointed himself governor. Uh. He said that this area 256 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: parts of Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming a really strange 257 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: selection of the parts, but it makes sense politically, politically 258 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: and also in terms of like the the agg focus 259 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: the demographics. So he declared Sheridan, Wyoming, the capital of 260 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: Absoroka and s it's weird, it's it's counter into it. 261 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: I keep I keep squeezing that second. Oh well, it did. 262 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: Like in the New York Times article, at the very first, 263 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: very first first PARAGRAPHIC gives it to you in full 264 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: parentheses with the ab Sorca. And it is an Indian term, 265 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: Native American term from tribe right, meaning children of the 266 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: large beaked bird. So he just says, I'm governor. Now 267 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: Sheridan is the capital. Come to me, people of this 268 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: new state and tell me your grievances. And they did. 269 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: They did, and it, um it started to pick up 270 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: a little steam, right. But you know, like things tend 271 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: to do with these high minded pie in the sky, 272 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, protesting kind of situations. It didn't quite work 273 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: out the way he was planning. They got license plates 274 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: though they had a beauty pageant. They had some stuff 275 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: going on. Did you say beauty pageant? Already bade beauty 276 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: page This is this is the this is the great work, 277 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: as we I think described in a previous episode. Um 278 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: and yeah, but miss miss Absorca of nine would apparently 279 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: be the last. But they did host a diplomatic visit 280 00:16:54,680 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: from the King of Norway, classic supporter Sorka. Now, according 281 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: to history, and it's interesting because this name Swiacker didn't 282 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: just make it up. It is the name of a 283 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: pre existing mountain range and one of the main reasons 284 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: that we know about this today is due to, oddly enough, 285 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 1: the New Deal, the Federal Writers Project, which was part 286 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: of the FDR programs. That's right, But when when did 287 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: this all fall apart? They never got approval or what 288 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: do you call it? They didn't submit it to Congress, 289 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: the citizens. It was very much a grassroots movement, because 290 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: there was a grass culture talked about earlier. So that story, 291 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: I I don't know, I find it inspiring. The determination, ambition, 292 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: and sense of grandiosity it takes to one day get 293 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: up and say, you know what, here's a new thing. 294 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: I'm the governor. Oh, here's a good little little bit 295 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: to wrap this one up on Um. A couple of 296 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: quotes from Swicker and that really show that he had 297 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: some he had some cones, he had he had some swagger. Um, 298 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: he said, of of this effort, of this potential agglomerating 299 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: of of these territories into a new state, he said, Um, 300 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: when this thing was really starting to heat up, had 301 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: some real legs and some hot movement was getting some 302 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: press coverage. He said, we will make our own laws, 303 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: just like the Wyoming legislators do. In the big hotel 304 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: at Cheyenne, Right, uh, he said, I told the governor 305 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: of our sister state to the south of Buffalo that 306 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: we had no warlike designs and that the rumors we 307 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: might succeed by force were erroneous. We ab absor Absorodin's 308 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: Abstodins does stay sick here in the article. So maybe 309 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: that's a misspeak. Um, But we are a peace loving lot, 310 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: and while we think that we really need the state 311 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: of Absorca, we are not inclined to revolution, right, so 312 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: we're not going to go into a state of war 313 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: over this now because they didn't have an army, it 314 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: would have been a fool's errand my friend, yeah, but 315 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: this is only one example, right. We again, as we 316 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: said at the top, which now in retrospect, I think 317 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: it was prescient and smart of us to put this in. 318 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: As we said at the top, we can't do all 319 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: of the would be states justice, But what do you say, 320 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: toll we we spend some time running through some of 321 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: the high points. It'll be a test of our brevity. 322 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: What's your favorite? On a personal level, I and I 323 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: think a lot of you can agree with me out here. 324 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: The would be state of superior It was a movement 325 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: that began in eighteen fifty eight to make Michigan's Upper 326 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: Peninsula a different state. And the reason I think that's 327 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: interesting is because growing up, like many kids in the US, 328 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: I kept thinking, why are these two masses of land? 329 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: They're completely separate. Why are they one state? It utterly 330 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: makes sense because even the people that live there talk 331 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: about the UP, you know, and the is there a 332 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: lower peninsula per Penincila? Yeah, the up Upper Peninsula? But 333 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: what what do they call the other one? They call 334 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: it that, that's just the LPs LP were not Michigan 335 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: or when Michiganders. Those are people who look at Michigan 336 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: but no. And and and also like it's proximity to Canada 337 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: is really interesting, and it totally when you look at 338 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: it on the map, the UP as they call it, 339 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: does have its own distincts look and borders. Yeah, and 340 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: this state again, this proposal was put on ice because 341 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: of the Civil War. Other people tried to propose the 342 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: same thing in eight and even as recently as nineteen 343 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: sixty two, when the Macinac Bridge was open and connected 344 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: the peninsula to the rest of Michigan, people said, okay, 345 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: it can be one state. What about you what's something 346 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: really stood out to you? Well, last thing, though, is 347 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: with that one? Is it? It's come up multiple times, 348 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: and a big part of why it was considered viable 349 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: was because the Upper Peninsula was a huge supplier of 350 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: copper in the eighteen sixties. But then, of course, like 351 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: like you said, the Civil War kind of ground things 352 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: to a hall. But the conversation did come up a 353 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: few other times. Um, I am a fan of tex Lahoma. 354 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: Oh yes, uh, where the corn is as high as 355 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: a portmanteau's eye and the wind goes sweeping down the 356 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, something else some other portmant too. Yeah, 357 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: we have to find like three different geographically. We don't 358 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: have time. We're trying to laundry lit right into us 359 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: with your suggestions. Tell me a little bit about tex Lahoma, 360 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: my friend. Well, my friend, it's all about the the automobile. 361 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: Are you familiar with this innovation? Vaguely? I've heard good things. Yeah, 362 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: you're still driving the Monte Carlo. I do, I do 363 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: drive the Money Carlo. Well, Um, this is around World 364 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: War two, our pre world. It's just pre World War 365 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: two cars were hot commodity. Everybody had to have one. 366 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: But the road systems were pretty terrible right before the 367 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: Interstates constructed, before the New Deal we're talking about earlier, right, 368 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: big big change there. Um, so, especially in more rural parts. Um, like, 369 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: you have your Texas and your Oklahoma Northern and western respectively, 370 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: horrible horrible road conditions right, um, and no one was 371 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: doing anything about it. So there was this proposal to 372 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: combine these regions into Texahoma. Is that a portmanteau? Yeah? Yes, okay, 373 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: good good good good. Um So yeah, technically, if there 374 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: was this new state and they were able to control 375 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: their own interests, they would, in theory have the ability 376 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: to improve their their infrastructure, um, separate from the again, 377 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: the fat cats in Austin or Oklahoma City, those overfed 378 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 1: badgers in the in the big towns. Yeah, they felt 379 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: like they would be able to have better representation. Let's 380 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: local level. Well, there there's a problem, right, you could 381 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: see the need for local legislation. That all sounds well 382 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: and good, but the chief problem, at least according to 383 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: a pretty funny article we found on mental flaws called 384 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: law States Texlahoma, the chief problem was that the proposals 385 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: to split Texas would make the residents of the new 386 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: state no longer Texans, and that was a big problem 387 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: to the voting popular. It's not gonna fly a Texan. 388 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: That's a that's a badge of honor, right, my friend. 389 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: For that reason, people would say, well, we are you 390 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: know what, we want our own thing, but we still 391 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: want to be Texans. Yeah for sure. So okay, in 392 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: the interest of getting to an amazing segment we have 393 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: coming up, I just want to list off a few 394 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: more kind of silly names without giving you much of 395 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: anything on them, and you can go look up. Let's 396 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: go back and forth. Let's do it, all right, Uh, 397 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: desiret the Salt Lake City Basin mid eighteen forties, Church 398 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: of Latter Day Saints, Boom, and Nika Jack. I love that. 399 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: Just leave that, just just you know, do you do 400 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: your homework, Nika Jack. Transylvania true story, Yeah, the unofficial 401 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: fourteenth colony completely separated from Vlad the Impaler. And and 402 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: then the incredibly unpoetic name del Marva. Yeah, del Marva 403 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: just kind of kind of clunky, right, all right, listen, 404 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: we have squandered too much time, um, so much fun 405 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: stuff here. You should look some of these up for yourself. 406 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: But we do have one really really cool in my opinion, 407 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: and been a long time coming. Segment here the third 408 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: installment ever of extra credit. Yes, ridiculous Historians, it is 409 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: time for extra credit, where we go a little bit 410 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: above and beyond what you would see in a typical episode. Uh. 411 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: You see, folks, we're not just looking at these would 412 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: be states from an abstract perspective. We went out and 413 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: got ourselves somewhat of an expert. Fellow, ridiculous Historians, we 414 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: would like to introduce you to retired Colonel Gladwin Bolland, who, 415 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: among many achievements, uh, happens to be my dad. Okay, man, 416 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna like not even mention the 417 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: fact that he was your dad, and that would have 418 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: been a little strange, but I was gonna roll with it. Okay. 419 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 1: I thought we weren't going to mention that I was 420 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: a retired colonel, but well, you know, I'll go with both. Okay, 421 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: all right, Dad, Well I hope I haven't given away 422 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: too much of of your past adventures. But first, Nolan, 423 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: I would like to thank you so much for coming 424 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: onto the show. Now, our family is native to Tennessee, right, 425 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: that's correct, and we have we have a story in 426 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: Tennessee history about a state that almost existed and isn't 427 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: around today. Could you tell us a little bit about 428 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: this place. Well, it was called the state of Franklin, Uh, 429 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: and really existed from about seventeen ninety four to seventeen 430 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: ninety nine, about four and a half years. But before 431 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: we get started on that, let me say two historians 432 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: out there that might be listening in. Uh, look, if 433 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: I'll leave out something, trust me, You're right I did 434 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: because we couldn't possibly cover all you clearly never listened 435 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: to the show before this is m trust me. Everyone 436 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: understands that this is a convoluted miss. Also, Uh, if 437 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: you think that I didn't get something right, well that 438 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: depends on who you are, if you're a Tiptonite or 439 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: if you're a frank So I'm intrigued, So let me 440 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: say some more about that in a few minutes. But uh, 441 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: just suffice to say now that history is written by 442 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: who the winners. There's no clear winner here. There's also 443 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: no state of Franklin. That's right, that's right, but there 444 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: is a state of Tennessee. Now let me set the 445 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: stage here. Look, you know, we don't appreciate the world 446 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: we live in right now. Imagine if you lived in 447 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: a land where the government wasn't a clear thing. There 448 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: were multiple governments, some multiple people in charge who had 449 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: authority win and where, and there were lots of players. 450 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: There was the United States, Oh, but it really was 451 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: the first confederacy because it was organized then under the 452 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: Articles of Confederation. Then there was the state of North Carolina. 453 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: Then over the mountain lands there were the people called 454 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: the Tipton Knights, who followed a man named Tipton, oddly 455 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: enough in a sheriff named pew Uh. And then the 456 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: people who were called Frank's because they wanted the state 457 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: of Franklin. And they were led by a guy named 458 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: John Severe. So they're not called the Severians. That would 459 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: be pretty severe, now, wouldn't it. So anyhow, Uh, But 460 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: let's go back even further than that to UH seventy 461 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: is the Revolutionary War. And in the South uh the 462 00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: uh British forces didn't always use British forces. They used Tories. 463 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: There was a major who was given the order of 464 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: Major Fergusson got the order to organize a group of 465 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: Tories and to march through South Carolina into North Carolina. 466 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: A group of people came over to meet these guys 467 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: called the over the Mountain Men, which meant they lived 468 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 1: over the mountain from established North Carolina into the Free counties, 469 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: and they met Ferguson's people at the Battle of King's Mountain, 470 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: killed Ferguson and just whiped the slate clean, killed many 471 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: fellow American known as Tories, who of course supported the king. 472 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: That was the first time that North Carolina population really 473 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: understood that there were people living on the other side 474 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: of the Appalachian Mountains that were also North Carolina citizen. 475 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: Didn't have the Internet, you know, no intervet, nobody called 476 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: nobody road, you know. So that was the first time 477 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: that they even really realized there were people over there. 478 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: That's interesting concept, but until they makes sense. Yeah, they 479 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: were just that isolated. So it was the over the 480 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: Mountain Men that sort of introduced this land on the 481 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: other side of the mountain. Then after the war, four 482 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: US forms the Confederation and what is everybody doing there? 483 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: Being broke the war was expensive, so North Carolina said, hey, 484 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: tell you what, We'll give back all the land that's 485 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: on the other side of the mountains twenty nine million 486 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: acres and take that as our payment of our part 487 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: of the debt of the warden. Ok Okay, you know 488 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: what the United States did with that good deal? What 489 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: did they do? Nothing? They left it there, really, so 490 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: the people on the other side of the mountain were 491 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: getting nervous, right there was even tall so uh the 492 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: US might even sell it to Spain or France to 493 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: get the money. So I would they expected to have 494 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: done with it, Like you said, they did nothing with it. 495 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: What should they have done with it? Well, you know, 496 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: I didn't live there, so I don't know. But there 497 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: you go. There's some up there now, just to develop 498 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: it in some way, in some way. But the reason 499 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: the US didn't want to do anything with it they 500 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: thought the cost of governing that piece of land would 501 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: be more than it would be worth. There wasn't any 502 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: There wasn't any uh great, nobody had any great ideas 503 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: of what to do with that whind so they didn't 504 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: do anything about it. North Carolina took it back, okay, 505 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: in the same year. But you know what the people 506 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: that lived over there said, Gee, you know, we're not 507 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: some of them at least said we're not real comfortable 508 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: with this. They want to give us away? Then nobody 509 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: wants us. They want to sell it. Nobody wants us. 510 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: So what did they do? They did a while A 511 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: lot of people didn't know as they formed their own government. 512 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: Really okay, they said local representation is best, and so 513 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: in Jonesboro, the town of Jonesborough, they formed their own government. 514 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: Now forget the fact that two blocks down the road, 515 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: literally two blocks North Carolina had an administrative office to 516 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: run that area. And maybe it was a rough couple 517 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: of blocks. Yeah, I guess it was. But they also 518 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: drafted their own constitution, which had some good ideas like 519 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: no lawyers, no preachers, and no doctors could hold office. 520 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: Really interesting. Yeah, uh, it was never adopted by that 521 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: they drafted that constant. Yeah, well, you know, it was 522 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: a good idea. Isn't part of the story too, though, 523 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: that there was kind of a conspiracy where certain officials 524 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: like had something to gain by the sale of this land. 525 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: I was reading somewhere that when it was sold, it 526 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: was actually sold to high ranking members of the state 527 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: government and then given to the U. S Government with 528 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: the understanding that people would actually profit from it. There 529 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: was always a backdoor deal there, of course, And again 530 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: that's some of the details that I'm leaving out here 531 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: because even that story drills down a long way. In 532 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: seventeen five, this group did apply for statehood. The state 533 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: of Franklin applied for statehood. Would that be to the 534 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: federal government, not federal government, Confederated government, and the Confederated 535 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: government turned it down with only seven states approving. They 536 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: needed to thirds, and so technically I guess that would 537 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: have been about nine of the thirteen states would have 538 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: had to approve, but only seven approved, so they didn't. 539 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: They didn't get the statehood in seventeen eighty five. If 540 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: they had, they would have been the fourteenth state of 541 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: the Union, which is crazy because from what you're describing, 542 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: if we look at the math, that means is that 543 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: the state of Franklin was two votes away from existing. 544 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: That's correct at that point. And John Severe was really 545 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 1: disappointed with that, so he wrote a letter to who 546 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: Ben Franklin. Hey, Dr Franklin, Uh, could you use some 547 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: of your influence? And Franklin wrote back, and it's really 548 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: interesting with the language they used in those days, but 549 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: he basically said, look, I really appreciate it that she 550 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: names state after me, but I got no clue how 551 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: to help you out. So they were trying to appeal 552 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: to him with flattery by naming the state. Absolutely that 553 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: that was part of the play there. He did say, 554 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: if I think of anything that might help you out, 555 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: then yeah, I'll I'll holler back at you. Because he 556 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: was a man with a pretty high opinion of himself. 557 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: I bet I bet he could be applied with that 558 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,239 Speaker 1: kind of flattery. But if he didn't have anything to offer, 559 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: he didn't have any to offer. Well, you know, there 560 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: was the idea of how much political capital that was 561 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: going to cost him. I'm sure it was in his head. 562 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: So the country was just sort of drifting at that point, 563 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: particularly this over the Mountain people, and so they just 564 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: sort of kind of operated as their own independent government 565 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,760 Speaker 1: parallel to the North Carolina government. So just no one cared, 566 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: No one cared. But we had another one of those 567 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: in and the ones we were talking about earlier, where Scott, 568 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: I think it was independent independent state of Scott existed 569 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: for like a hundred and twenty seven years. Because it 570 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: was Tennessee as well, they didn't care. Nobody noticed, well 571 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: what happened here. They did move their state capital to Greenville. 572 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: The Franklin folks did, And the reason they did that 573 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: was because they finally decided that being two blocks down 574 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: from the North Carolina office was not that good a 575 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: deal with Jonesborough, so they moved to Franklin. But in 576 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: this all came to a head because John Severe was 577 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 1: forever in trouble. He wouldn't pay North Carolina taxes. So 578 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: this sheriff named Pugh seized his property uh on behalf 579 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: of North Carolina, which unfortunately included some slaves. John Severe 580 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: wanted that back. Uh. He organized an army and attacked 581 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: the uh Tipton Nights at Tipton's farm near Johnson City, 582 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: Tennessee and what it would become Johnson City, Tennessee. And 583 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: this battle went on for a raging ten minutes, about 584 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: a hundred guys against a hundred guys, of which three 585 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: Tipton Knights were killed. Uh Tipton wanted the head of 586 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: John Severe, or even better, the head of John Severe Jr. 587 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: All of who participated in that battle. Um. But what 588 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: happened is John Severe withdrew and the next year things 589 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: just drifted along. Next year, here come the Indians. Okay, 590 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: there was a guy named Dragon Canoe who was an 591 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: Indian chief that never agreed with anything with even with 592 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: the other uh Native Americans. The Cherokee were as segmented 593 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: as everybody else. But they started attacking the white settlements 594 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: and Severe needed help because his people were getting beat up. 595 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: Couldn't get any help from North Carolina. The United States 596 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: has broke. He asked Spain for loan. Then he asked 597 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: Spain to just take over the area, just running like 598 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: an unclave. That's right, It wasn't that kind of what 599 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: they were fearing in the first place, was like having 600 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: a foreign control over Yeah, this lands, absolutely, but you 601 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: know what they feared, Indians more, care the American natives more. 602 00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: When you first said the name of this this Native American, 603 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: I pictured dragon canoe like a like a dragon canoe. 604 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,799 Speaker 1: He was dragging the canoe very basically, yes, but at 605 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: any right, what ended up happening is that North Carolina 606 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: arrested John Severe for treason basically. Okay, I mean that's 607 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: probably what would happen if I or Noels successfully tried 608 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: to sell some piece of like if we tried to 609 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: sell Atlanta to uh listening to my country to I 610 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,879 Speaker 1: don't know Norway, whoever has the best offer. I don't 611 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: think the Norwegians would be pretty agreeable to do deal with. 612 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: They seemed pretty relatively chill. Nobody tell them about the 613 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: summer here. Well, there you go. At the end of 614 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: all of this push and shove, they couldn't really take 615 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: the head of John Severe. So you mean this figuratively 616 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,760 Speaker 1: or like they wanted that that his head the tip 617 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: Many of the tip to Nites wanted to hang him. Okay, 618 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: But what ended up is that North Carolina allowed John 619 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: Severe and the rest of the Franks to swear allegiance 620 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: to North Carolina. And that ended the state of Franklin, 621 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: but it didn't end the idea of a separate state. 622 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: And so down in Severe count what is now Severe County, 623 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,479 Speaker 1: they formed the Lesser Franklin government called Lesser Franklin, and 624 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: they did that strictly to campaign for a new state. 625 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: Oh wow. And so in the end, what North Carolina 626 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: accepted that Rhode Island approved the constitution in seventeen ninety. 627 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: So we went under the new constitution. Uh, and the 628 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: territory that would eventually be called Tennessee, and that's another 629 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: story we don't have time for became the sixteenth state. 630 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: So you're gonna ask me who was the fourteenth state, 631 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: a free republic called Vermont voted to join the Union. 632 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 1: That's right, we did an episode of OK and then 633 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: and then the fifteenth state was Kentucky, just because they 634 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: got their stuff together sooner. Now let me let me 635 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: close this out with just a few facts. Ben, you 636 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: don't know this, but you can be a member of 637 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: the First Families of Franklin. Oh cool? Wait, does that 638 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 1: like you personally been won? Get you it won't get 639 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: you a Hamburger anywhere, And get you a little certificate, 640 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: one of which your mom has because, uh, some of 641 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: your ancestors were lived in East Tennessee during the state 642 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: of Franklin. Can I also nominate friends and family for membership? 643 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: Not sure, I'm gonna write to him. No, only you 644 00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: want to be an honorary member of this I love honorary. 645 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,959 Speaker 1: Done well, they won't let me in because I'm I'm 646 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: a my loungeon. You know. We came in sevent hundred 647 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: to Newman's Ridge. Uh the over the Mountain Men that 648 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: I talked about. Who was among those? But one of 649 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: the commanders was a guy named John Severe The over 650 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: a Mountain Men. Another soldier in that group was John Crockett. 651 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: His son Davey is better known now. Also speaking better 652 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 1: known would be who's the best known, uh person from 653 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 1: Severe County? Not John Severe, as someone who the first 654 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: governor of Tennessee was Very few people would say John Severe, 655 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: but that is who it was. But if you were 656 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: to say Dolly Pardon, yes, Dolly Pardon grew up in 657 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: Severe County. Is a descendant of John Severe here and 658 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,200 Speaker 1: a member of the descendants of John Severe. And one 659 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:10,480 Speaker 1: last thing, John Severe did lose his head. Really in 660 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, my dad made a statue. My dad 661 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: was a sculptor. He made a ten ft marble statue 662 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: of John Severe. For the longest time it was in 663 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: a bank, but in the nineteen eighties that got moved 664 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: to the Knoxville, Tennessee World's Fair Park. During a University 665 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: of Tennessee pledge week, someone cut the head off of 666 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: John Severe. That's messed up. It's a one hundred thousand 667 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: dollar statue, but the head went missing. So how much 668 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: you thing the head would have been worth on its own, 669 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: who knows. But it's in some play in some fraternity 670 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: house probably, I guess. And nothing again along with some 671 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: Pilford like road sign. Yeah, it's probably out there, but uh, 672 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: you know, the Tipton Knights would be happy to hear. 673 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: Or that John Silvere fondly lost his head and what's that. 674 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: That's about all I got to say. Man, that's that 675 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 1: was plenty and all fascinating, and we are really grateful. 676 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,239 Speaker 1: I'm personally grateful for you coming and telling us the story. Yeah, 677 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. Dad. This 678 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 1: has been extra credit and that at the end of 679 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: the segment, but not the show. We hope you'll join 680 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: us next time for another episode of Ridiculous History. I'm 681 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: not even sure what we're doing yet. I think let's 682 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: just leave the teaser off this time and keep people's 683 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: imagination trying. Let's keep the mystery, you know. In the meantime, 684 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 1: we would like to hear from you. We want to 685 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: hear your stories about local states that never were in 686 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: your neck of the Global Woods. You can find us 687 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,359 Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Of course. If you want 688 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians who are, 689 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: in our collective opinion, the best part of the show, 690 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: visit us on Ridiculous Historians. I just send us a 691 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: request to join the group, and we will likely infirm 692 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: said request unless you are some sort of war criminal, right, right, right. 693 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,840 Speaker 1: And of course, as we like to say at the 694 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,760 Speaker 1: end of every episode, it's time to give some credit 695 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: and some thanks to super producer Casey Pegram, researcher Extraordinary 696 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: Christopher Hasciotis, Alex Williams, who composed our theme music. Ben, 697 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, Heyl. I'm so glad you brought this up. 698 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for being you, and and and thank you, 699 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: m thank what should I call you? Gladwin? Is that okay? 700 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: That works for me? Thank you Gladwin. Thanks for joining 701 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: us on the show today. Yeah, it was a lot 702 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: of fun and everybody will see you next time.