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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcasts, where we

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Speaker 1: focus on all things mental health, personal development, and all

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Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best

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Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To find more information

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Speaker 1: and to get resources, visit the website at Therapy for

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Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com. And while I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, welcome to Session five

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Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcasts. I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: tuning in for another episode and really appreciate all the

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Speaker 1: conversations I've been having with you over on social media.

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Speaker 1: It's been really cool to see how you're taking in

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Speaker 1: the information and sharing it with your circles, So please

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Speaker 1: keep it up and remember to use the hashtag TBG

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Speaker 1: in session. So today we have another on the Couch episode,

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Speaker 1: and I think you'll enjoy this episode just as much

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Speaker 1: as you enjoyed the Being Mary Jane episode. So today

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Speaker 1: you'll be hearing the conversation I had with licensed independent

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Speaker 1: clinical social worker Jehan Met June Johan is the owner

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Speaker 1: of the Fulfillment Project in Washington, d C. And she

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Speaker 1: is passionate about working with women who want to do

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Speaker 1: the following things. Find relief from depression, anxiety, and past trauma.

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Speaker 1: Learn how to relax and cope with stress, identify blind

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Speaker 1: spots in relationships, gain clarity about career, passion and purpose,

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Speaker 1: and cultivate self acceptance and self compassion. Johan earned her

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Speaker 1: Bachelors of a Science degree and family studies at the

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Speaker 1: University of Maryland College Park, and then earned her Masters

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Speaker 1: of Social Work at Howard University. So Johanna and I

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Speaker 1: talked about a bit of a throwback character UM. So

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Speaker 1: we talk about Joan Carol Clayton, and those of you

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Speaker 1: who are Girlfriends fans will recognize her. So if you

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Speaker 1: have not caught up with Girlfriends, or if you're a

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Speaker 1: little young and weren't um of age to be watching

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Speaker 1: Girlfriends when it was on the c W, you can

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Speaker 1: still catch it until some of the episodes are on

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Speaker 1: YouTube and then I believe seasons two through eight or

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Speaker 1: on an app called c W the seed UM and

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Speaker 1: all this information will be included in the show notes

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Speaker 1: so that you know where to find it. UM. But

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Speaker 1: it was really a stellar series and really UM you know,

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Speaker 1: like was one of those things where you got all

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Speaker 1: your girls together and everybody sat together and watched Girlfriends.

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Speaker 1: So I think you'll really enjoy this episode. So Johanna

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Speaker 1: and I talked about a couple of different things. We

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Speaker 1: talked about some expectations of what our lives should look like,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about the use of art therapy when

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Speaker 1: working with clients. We also talked about some of the

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Speaker 1: difficulties we have as women about saying no and setting

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Speaker 1: boundaries and one of the main struggles that Joan had,

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Speaker 1: which was this pressure to um have your life look

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Speaker 1: a certain way by the age of thirty. So I

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Speaker 1: definitely think you'll enjoy this conversation and I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to hearing your feedback after you listen. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us today, John, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: So tell us which character you are going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about today. So I'll be talking about Joan from Girlfriends,

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Speaker 1: which was a TV show I want to say in

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Speaker 1: the early two thousand's centered around UM for women of

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Speaker 1: color in Los Angeles, and they're all kind of in

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Speaker 1: there like late twenties and everyone you know at different

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Speaker 1: phases in their lives and own is a lawyer. She's

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Speaker 1: really smart, she's a leader, she's one of those people

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Speaker 1: who looks really good on paper. Is a very good friend,

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Speaker 1: but she's like a go to person for her friends

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Speaker 1: to like fix their problems, build them out. And on

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Speaker 1: top of that, she feels like she needs to be

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Speaker 1: married by age thirty. Oh okay, okay, Yeah, she's got

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Speaker 1: a lot on her plate, right right, So tell us

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Speaker 1: what are some of the things she's struggling with that

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Speaker 1: you think might lead her to therapy. So she's tired

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Speaker 1: of being, you know, that go to for her friends.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's tired of bailing her friends out. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, she struggles with finding time for herself and

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Speaker 1: really has problems with setting healthy boundaries and being as

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Speaker 1: being able to assert herself effectively and communicate what her

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Speaker 1: needs are, particularly in relationships, so not only with friends,

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Speaker 1: but within romantic relationships. Um. And So she's feels like

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Speaker 1: she's kind of hitting a wall in terms of people

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Speaker 1: meeting where meeting her where she is, and she feels

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Speaker 1: like she has to settle for what she has got you. So,

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Speaker 1: how often would you say you see someone like Joan

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Speaker 1: in your current practice? So I see this type of

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Speaker 1: client very frequently. Um. I am based in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: So you know, DC culture has kind of conditioned people

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Speaker 1: to be very career driven and always be looking for

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Speaker 1: their next move and be in a relationship just have

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Speaker 1: like every uh checkbox marked off career family relationship, like

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Speaker 1: everything has to be perfect, and that can create a

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Speaker 1: lot of pressure on someone and can be you know,

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Speaker 1: very intimidating and unfortunately, it can turn into kind of

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Speaker 1: a comparison game where always looking to someone else to see, okay,

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Speaker 1: like they feel they seem like they've got it together.

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Speaker 1: Why don't I have it together? What's wrong with me?

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Speaker 1: And the expectation is that you can't feel and you

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Speaker 1: know you have to be uh you know, seeing it

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Speaker 1: as worthy in someone else's eyes. Okay. So that definitely

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Speaker 1: is something very interesting. I think we want to touch

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Speaker 1: on more. UM. So you're kind of also alluding to

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Speaker 1: like this fullmal culture, like fear of missing out. So

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Speaker 1: so talk with me a little bit about what that

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Speaker 1: might look like, UM, in your practice. So if someone

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Speaker 1: was coming in and kind of doing all of this

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Speaker 1: constant comparison and things what kinds of things would you

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Speaker 1: do with them in therapy? So I think part of

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Speaker 1: it is, UM, you know, when we're looking to other

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Speaker 1: people to dictate how we should be, we don't really

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Speaker 1: have a very strong sense of self. We don't know,

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Speaker 1: we're not very clear on you know, what is how

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Speaker 1: do we identify? Like how do we show up in

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Speaker 1: the world? Who are we like? You know, what are

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Speaker 1: our values, our beliefs, our interests? You know, what are

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Speaker 1: the things that like, um, make us curious and you know,

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Speaker 1: inspire us and give us hope because we're like so

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Speaker 1: busy looking at people's Instagram feeds and you know which

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Speaker 1: is all very you know, glossy and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: picture perfect and so that UM, it's like a never

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Speaker 1: ending game. So UM being clear about getting clear about

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Speaker 1: you know, who you are and who is the person

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Speaker 1: that you want to be and and learning to accept,

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Speaker 1: um the person that you are, and like learning how

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Speaker 1: to be your own friend, to enjoy your own company, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, to feel strong about what you believe in,

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Speaker 1: what you value, and you know, learning how to UM

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Speaker 1: let that person show up in relationships instead of the

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Speaker 1: person that you think should show up got you? So

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Speaker 1: what are some exercises that you might use in therapy

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Speaker 1: to help them to kind of get closer to this goal.

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Speaker 1: So I love to use art. I think art is

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Speaker 1: like a great modality because it taps into kind of

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Speaker 1: your unconscious feelings. It's all very intuitive, and that's the

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Speaker 1: thing that you know, people who are struggling to be

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Speaker 1: themselves are not using their intuition UM. And so it's

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Speaker 1: being able to tap into that kind of inner wisdom

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Speaker 1: that we all that we all possess, and art is

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Speaker 1: a great way to experiment with that. You know, kids

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Speaker 1: are you know always you know, down to color and

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Speaker 1: you know, experiment with paint, and that speaks to their

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Speaker 1: you know just you know spontaneity and natural you know

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Speaker 1: freedom and just you know, not caring and so being

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Speaker 1: able to let go of like social constructs and you know,

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Speaker 1: things that limit us. UM. So I love to use

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Speaker 1: art UM. And then you know, I'm definitely someone who

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Speaker 1: UM likes to use body based interventions UM. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people are disconnected from their bodies and live in

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Speaker 1: their heads, and so being able to tune in to

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Speaker 1: your body and and and be able to sense like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: how does my body feel like? You know, when I'm

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Speaker 1: in um, you know, overwhelmed, like what's going on in

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Speaker 1: my body and figuring out, Okay, if I feel the sensation,

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Speaker 1: what does this sensation need? What is it trying to

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Speaker 1: tell me? Or um, get my attention around and being

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Speaker 1: able to listen to that and say, okay, any rest

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Speaker 1: or you know, I'm feeling anxious like I need to

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Speaker 1: ground myself. So you know, that's another part of my

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Speaker 1: work with clients is being able to incorporate mindfulness and

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Speaker 1: being able to cultivate their ability to be present UM

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Speaker 1: in the present moment UM. And I do that through

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Speaker 1: breathing exercises, grounding techniques, UM, and just being able to

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Speaker 1: tap in UM to your wisdom of thin. Wow, that

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Speaker 1: sounds really powerful and wonderful. So I'm wondering, UM, from

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Speaker 1: your experience, how easy is it to kind of get

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Speaker 1: some of your black women clients to participate in those

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Speaker 1: kinds of like body intuitive exercises and things like that.

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Speaker 1: So UM, I think it all starts with the relationship

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Speaker 1: UM that we have with one another. And I think

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Speaker 1: you know something that I always tell people is that

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Speaker 1: we heal in relationships. So you know, I may be

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Speaker 1: your therapist, but this is this is a healing uh

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Speaker 1: you know relationship where you can practice you know, being

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Speaker 1: yourself and letting go of you know, things that hold

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Speaker 1: you back and um, so being able to like developed

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Speaker 1: that rapport with that person and you know, just being

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Speaker 1: able to feel comfortable and establishing a sense of trust

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Speaker 1: and safety. And so when there's safety, people are able

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Speaker 1: to kind of let their guard down, let their walls down, um,

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Speaker 1: and be able to kind of be more experience experimental

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Speaker 1: and be more kind of flexible, um and willing to

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Speaker 1: try new things. Got you, got you? Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: definitely thinking, um, you know, because you talked a little

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Speaker 1: bit about the DC culture right which I'm thinking, um,

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Speaker 1: really requires people to kind of always be on you

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Speaker 1: can always be operating at you know, tip top shape,

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Speaker 1: and some of the things that you're mentioning trying to

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Speaker 1: do in therapy would require them to really come out

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Speaker 1: of that mode exactly. So sometimes it's just focusing on

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Speaker 1: the breath, you know, just pausing for a minute and

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Speaker 1: just you know, listening to the sound of your breath.

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Speaker 1: You know, is does it feel constricted? Is it shallow?

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Speaker 1: And what is that telling us um? And you know

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Speaker 1: the you know, breath is life. So UM, I think

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Speaker 1: people are able to kind of make that connection that Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I am really anxious and you know I'm not breathing

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Speaker 1: and I really need to focus on this UM to

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Speaker 1: better experience life. So you also mentioned, UM that Joan

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Speaker 1: could use a lot of help around boundary setting. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: So talk to us about what that would look like

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Speaker 1: in therapy. How would you help her tos at better boundaries? Sure?

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Speaker 1: So um, looking at you know, what's okay and what's

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Speaker 1: not okay? Like what is your yes and what is

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Speaker 1: your no? And um? You know, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people have a negative connotation with the word no.

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Speaker 1: So looking at okay, what words, images, feelings, symbols, um,

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Speaker 1: maybe memories that you associate with the word no. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes people will come up with, you know, things in

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Speaker 1: their childhood, maybe thinks something memory that they had UM

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Speaker 1: in a you know, dating scenario and you know, the

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Speaker 1: resulting feeling was like, you know, negative, and so they

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Speaker 1: now feel afraid to say no to people. So looking

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Speaker 1: at like how do they view the words no and yes?

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Speaker 1: And you know, looking at okay, how does that impact

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Speaker 1: their ability to set appropriate boundaries and like getting clear

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Speaker 1: on what is there no, Like, are there things that

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Speaker 1: you've been wanting to say no to but fear that

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Speaker 1: people will abadden you or reject you because you'll say no? So, like,

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Speaker 1: what do they see as the repercussions or the consequences

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Speaker 1: of saying no and saying yes? And being able to

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Speaker 1: kind of get a really end of picture of what

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Speaker 1: that really means to them um and um. You know,

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Speaker 1: once they have that clear picture, you know, they're able

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Speaker 1: to be aware of, you know, why they're having certain

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Speaker 1: feelings or why they're feeling pressured to say yes when

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Speaker 1: they really don't want to say yes. Um, And how

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Speaker 1: that can create you know, a whole host of of

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Speaker 1: feelings like resentment and exhaustion um, and how that's really

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Speaker 1: impacting you know, their self care and you know also

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Speaker 1: there um, they're self worth you know if I say

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Speaker 1: no or this person value me? Um, well this person

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Speaker 1: liked me? Um And really determining, Okay, what's most important here? Um.

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Speaker 1: So being able to look at what people's you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: priorities are and what's really most important in those moments. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do think that's important to look at and I

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Speaker 1: often hear with some of my clients the idea that, um,

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Speaker 1: seeing no means that I'm going to be hurting somebody's feelings, right, yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Are there other other issues that have come up around

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned? Fear of abandonment and fear of not

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Speaker 1: being liked? Are there other reasons people give you for

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Speaker 1: being afraid to say no? Those are the top ones.

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Speaker 1: I mean I think, Um, you know, some people fear that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll lose my job if I say no. So

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Speaker 1: it's like, okay, you know if I say no, well

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Speaker 1: this person you know view me. Uh, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: not being a team player. Um, because I want to

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Speaker 1: be up for a promotion and if I say no,

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Speaker 1: I may not get that promotion. So um, you know

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Speaker 1: it does have that. There are some real fears around

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Speaker 1: the world. No, Um, but I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: kind of really like, you know, dissect that and really

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Speaker 1: look at Okay, um, what does this really mean for

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Speaker 1: you in your life? So the other thing you mentioned

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Speaker 1: related to Joan was this pressure that she feels to

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Speaker 1: be married by the age of thirty. Yes, yes, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. There's something about like when for a lot

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Speaker 1: of women, you know, when they're in high school. It

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Speaker 1: sounds it feels like, you know, they imagine, you know,

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Speaker 1: their future lives and it's you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people say, oh, I'll be married by age and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll have kids at this age, and so they've like

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Speaker 1: scripted their entire lives and and and it doesn't include

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Speaker 1: any kind of adversity or challenges, like everything's going to

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Speaker 1: be good. So there's all these like very like rigid

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Speaker 1: expectations of how their life it's supposed to go. And

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Speaker 1: so when it doesn't UM, when that expectation is not met,

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Speaker 1: then anxiety ensues and it's like, I'm not needing my timeline.

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to be married by you know this date,

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Speaker 1: it's not happened. What's so something must be wrong with me? UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know a lot of that is UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: societal UM constructs that kind of help inform people. And

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Speaker 1: you know, also you know, social media UM is also

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Speaker 1: not helpful. You know, I think a lot of my clients,

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Speaker 1: you know, will scroll through scroll through their Facebook feed

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Speaker 1: and see like all these like ring in summer weddings

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Speaker 1: coming up, and you know they internalize that is well

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Speaker 1: why don't I have that? And why am I not

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Speaker 1: getting married? Um, and internalize that as something deficient with

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Speaker 1: themselves and um, thinking that a partner is is like

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Speaker 1: the marker of you know success and you know life success,

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Speaker 1: and that a partner will then make them happy and

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Speaker 1: fulfill their needs like they can't um separate like Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is my relationship and this is me. It's like

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Speaker 1: all one and the same. I can't be happy until

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Speaker 1: if and when I get married and have kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and have the house you know with the dog. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's this um kind of you know, dependent relationships.

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Speaker 1: My happiness depends upon if I achieve X, y and z.

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Speaker 1: When happiness is is attainable and in any moment um

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Speaker 1: and not in these kind of like status um status

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Speaker 1: is that people put out there. Yeah, that definitely is

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Speaker 1: a big thing to try to break through. I mean

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Speaker 1: the societal constructs that have been developed for us around

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Speaker 1: marriage kind of being the ultimate goal, and no matter

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Speaker 1: how much success you've had academically or career wise, it

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Speaker 1: really kind of boils down to like okay, when is

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Speaker 1: she going to be married with some kids kind of

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Speaker 1: things um, and and a lot of times that really

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Speaker 1: starts with family, UM, and so it's a long held belief.

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Speaker 1: So so what kinds of strategies would you even be

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Speaker 1: able to use to kind of chip away at some

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Speaker 1: of that in there? So I think you know you

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Speaker 1: mentioned a really great, UM, really important part of this

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Speaker 1: is family. And you know, families, UM are where we learn, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, what we value and what our beliefs are.

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Speaker 1: So looking at the family of origins, you know, what

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Speaker 1: did that your family value growing up? And you know

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Speaker 1: what beliefs you know we're um, you know, promoted within

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Speaker 1: your in your family. And are those beliefs and values

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Speaker 1: something that you want to carry on into your life

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Speaker 1: or something? Or or are some of those beliefs and

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Speaker 1: values uh that something that you want to leave behind? UM?

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Speaker 1: So looking at that and like, okay, what are my uh,

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Speaker 1: what are my core beliefs? So you can kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, split that into you positive core beliefs and

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Speaker 1: negative core beliefs and look at, okay, which ones you

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Speaker 1: know do the negative outweigh the positive? UM? And looking

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Speaker 1: at okay, how does that? How do these beliefs impact

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Speaker 1: my self esteem and my self worth and how I

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Speaker 1: see myself? UM? And how others see me as well.

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Speaker 1: And so you know that's you know, take some processing

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Speaker 1: and you know, just some dissecting. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's a really important lesson absolutely. And you also mentioned, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of springing summer wedding season. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that definitely was a prominent theme on Girlfriends. Right, So

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Speaker 1: when Tony got engaged and prepared for the wedding, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Joan really had a very difficult time like that and

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Speaker 1: it caused a lot of friction in their relationship. So

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Speaker 1: can you talk maybe a little bit about what that

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Speaker 1: might look like if you have like some jealousy around

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Speaker 1: a friend who seems like she's kind of having all

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Speaker 1: the things that you'd like to have, and how you

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Speaker 1: might manage that. Yeah. I think the first way to

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Speaker 1: kind of deal with that is having self compassion for

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Speaker 1: yourself and saying to yourself, Okay, this is a difficult

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Speaker 1: this is a difficult moment for me, um, and this

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Speaker 1: is difficult for these reasons, UM, and identifying you know,

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Speaker 1: your feelings associated with that. Um. You know, so if

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Speaker 1: you're feeling jealous, okay, so if someone's feeling jealous, um,

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Speaker 1: there's an unmet need there. UM. Jealousy is a feeling

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Speaker 1: UM when a need is UH, when a need is

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Speaker 1: not being fulfilled. Right, So what need UM is needing

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Speaker 1: to be met? So for someone who's jealous, that need

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Speaker 1: might be UM, a relationship or closeness or intimacy or UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, understanding UM. You know, it could be a

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Speaker 1: number of things, and being able to look at, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are my feelings and needs in this moment and

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Speaker 1: being able to you know, get clear on that UM.

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Speaker 1: Being able to be aware of your thoughts and feelings

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Speaker 1: so that you know you're not UM putting you know,

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Speaker 1: your negative feelings, and being triggered onto your friend UM.

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Speaker 1: And that's where you know, this is where self compassion

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Speaker 1: really plays a really big role UM, because it's hard.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it can be really triggering when you see

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Speaker 1: someone you know finding the very thing that you want

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Speaker 1: in your life UM and being having to accept that Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't have that right now, but it's not something

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Speaker 1: that I won't ever have, you know, until being able

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Speaker 1: to UM positively affirm yourself and you know, speak intentionally

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Speaker 1: and affirmatively about the things that you do want in

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Speaker 1: your life. I really like that because I think the self, compassion, peace.

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Speaker 1: We often miss, um and we don't want to sit

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Speaker 1: with the fact that it can be a very difficult time,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I feel like there is already like

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Speaker 1: a lot of shame, Like, oh, I shouldn't feel jealous,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I should be happy for my friend,

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Speaker 1: but it's also okay for you to feel really sad

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Speaker 1: and disappointed what may not be happening for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing about shame is that you know,

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Speaker 1: it's often felt in secret, and so you know, you

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Speaker 1: if you acknowledge it, you know, and you bring light

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Speaker 1: to it, then you can actually heal it and overcome it.

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Speaker 1: So by you know, recognizing, okay, this is hard, Um,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, going to be a hard situation

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Speaker 1: for me to kind of get through. But knowing that, um,

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Speaker 1: that your feelings are normal and that it's okay that

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Speaker 1: you have those feelings and that you know, you not

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Speaker 1: judge yourself. UM, where we can be really hard on ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So UM, compassion you know is essential here. Yeah, absolutely

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Speaker 1: So are there other issues that you um saw Joanes

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Speaker 1: struggling with that you felt like you wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about. I think, UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, the boundaries is really big. I think, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, being able to tune into you're uh feelings

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Speaker 1: and needs UM. You know, relying on you know, your

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Speaker 1: inner wisdom or your intuition is really important. UM. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think for Joan, I think, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we all have like these kind of learned responses when

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Speaker 1: like things get overwhelming or we're stressed out. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking at Joan is maybe looking at Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are her coping skills that have worked for her

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Speaker 1: in the past, and being able to UM utilize that,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, kind of like putting together her

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Speaker 1: coping skills toolbox and being able to teach her new

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00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: coping skills that she can integrate. UM. You know, when

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Speaker 1: life gets hectic, you know there's there's life is full

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Speaker 1: of ups and downs and the front challenges, and the

396
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: more options she has to be able to respond to

397
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Speaker 1: those challenges, UM, the better she can bounce back and

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00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: be more resilient UM and feel you know, good about

399
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: herself and ability to handle and manage like you know,

400
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: life UM stressors. You bring up an interesting point about

401
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: the coping strategies because it seems like one of Jones's

402
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: coping strategies and probably in some ways in her life

403
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: this worked, and in some ways it probably was not

404
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: super effective. But she definitely was a bit of a

405
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: control freak. Yes, it seems like when she really got stressed,

406
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: she would really kind of threw herself into kind of

407
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: trying to take control over something else. So can you

408
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: talk about like how that might be effective but then

409
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: maybe not so effective? Yeah, I think you know, the

410
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Speaker 1: feeling of being out of control UM can be very

411
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Speaker 1: anxiety provoking for people, so, you know, trying to throw

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Speaker 1: themselves in being productive or maybe some you know, destructive

413
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: behaviors UM can take place. So looking at okay, what

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Speaker 1: behaviors like? So if if she's if she's engaging in destructing,

415
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Speaker 1: destructive behaviors or unhealthy behaviors, Okay, what function do these

416
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: behaviors serve for me? You know? Is this a way

417
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: for me to like mediate my anxiety UM and to

418
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Speaker 1: like self soothed myself um? And so if that's the case, Okay,

419
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm doing this in an attempt to soothe and mediate

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Speaker 1: my anxiety. What are some other alternative ways in which

421
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: I can mediate my anxiety? And so that's where, like

422
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: the other coping skills can come into But this all

423
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: has to start with, you know, observing and being a

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00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: witness to yourself and observing how you interact and these

425
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: types of situations and being been able to like pause

426
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Speaker 1: and say, Okay, I'm feeling anxious, I'm getting ready to

427
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: do this like not so great. Um behavior, Um, let

428
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,479
Speaker 1: me slow down, let me do some deep breathing, and

429
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Speaker 1: let me make a better choice here. I love that.

430
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: I love that. So you have already offered us so

431
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: many tips, but are there are there any other tips

432
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: that you might have for our listeners who may be

433
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: struggling with some of the same things that Joan struggled with.

434
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: I think it's always important. Uh, And this can and

435
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: anyone can do. This is just being able to tune

436
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: into your body. Tune into what is your body trying

437
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: to tell you. You know, how do you feel easically?

438
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, if we don't feel good physically,

439
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,479
Speaker 1: chances are we don't feel good emotionally. So you know,

440
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: looking at okay, what what is trying to get my attention?

441
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: You know, like just being in tune with your breath

442
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: and you know the signals that your body gives you um,

443
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: and being very attuned to that UM, I think, um,

444
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: you know, we have a tendency to push through things

445
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: and ignore you know, a little eggs and pains. But

446
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: those little eggs and pains are I have a lot

447
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: of information in them that that are really important for

448
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: us to know. So just listening um, so I think

449
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: you know, and and being curious about yourself, you know,

450
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: just um, having an attitude of curiosity about how you

451
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: interact with people, how do you talk to yourself, how

452
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: do you do with stress? Um? How do you care

453
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: for yourself? And you know, I think starting there, um

454
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: is a good step in the right direction. Got you,

455
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: got you? So are there any resources that you might

456
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: suggest for our listeners, Any books that you love to

457
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: kind of refer to our websites? Yes, so, UM, I

458
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: love all of Bernie Brown's books, The Gifts of Imperfection,

459
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: Rising Strong. UM. I also really love Kristin Neff's book

460
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: called Self Compassion, which I think we all really need. Um.

461
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: You know, the world is full of snap judgments and um,

462
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: you know, harsh criticism for people, and so just being

463
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: able to look at you know, how do you talk

464
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: to yourself? Is really port and UM. And another one

465
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: of my favorites UM is Radical Acceptance by Tara Brock UM.

466
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: She UM has a wealth of resources on her website,

467
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: which is Tara Brock dot com, and she has meditations

468
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: and lectures UM in addition to the books that she's

469
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: written UM and I on my website have a list

470
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: of you know, book recommendations UM that people can look at. UM.

471
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: I've recently have gotten really into podcasts, I want to say,

472
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. So UM. I really

473
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: like The Relationship a live podcast UM. It's hosted by

474
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: Neil Satin and he interviews a lot of UM therapists

475
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: and relationship experts UM. You know about a whole host

476
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: of topics from emotional manipulation UM you know to like

477
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: how to build better communication with your partner. UM. I

478
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: think that's a great UH podcast to check out. Another

479
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: great podcast UM actually UM that kind of targets women

480
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: of color is called Black Girl and Own UM and

481
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: that's O M like the Yoga own UM. That's a

482
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: really great UM podcast. They also have a website with

483
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: a lot of great resources and UH women and Women

484
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: in Depth UM, and that's hosted by Laura's Yatto. She's

485
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: another UM therapist based out of Las Vegas, and she

486
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: also interviews a lot of of therapists and other UM

487
00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: you know, you know, helping professionals regarding topic related to

488
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: women's I think those three podcasts aren't really great to

489
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: check out, UM. Yeah, And I mean I think, uh,

490
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: you know, just being able to UM, just being able

491
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: to be open um to the different resources out there

492
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: is really great. And looking at like what's going on

493
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 1: in your local community and what workshops might be available

494
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: UM is a great way to kind of get involved

495
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: in touch upon some subjects that you might be curious about,

496
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: maybe before you you UM go into therapy, or you

497
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: know you're thinking about therapy. UM. I think these podcasts

498
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: are are great ways to start that process. Those are

499
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: some amazing resources, John, and I had not heard about

500
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: a lot of those, so I have to check those

501
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: out myself. Yeah. I really enjoyed them. And these will

502
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: all be included in the show notes, so you don't

503
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: have to worry about trying to write all of this down.

504
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: If you're listening, UM, I'll include all of these in

505
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: the show notes. So tell us a little bit more

506
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: about your work. I think that you have a pretty

507
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: amazing website, and I think that your practice is a

508
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: very cool thing. Um. So your practice is called the

509
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: Fulfillment Project. So can you tell us a little bit

510
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: more about your practice and where we can find you

511
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 1: all across social media? Sure? So, UM, I started the

512
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: Fulfillment Project um uh for two reasons. One for myself

513
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: because I was searching for fulfillment in my own life

514
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be able to UM, to be

515
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: able to give that to other people, to help people

516
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: find their own mice. Fulfillment and fulfillment can come through

517
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: many different ways, but I think the UM the most

518
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: important ways to come your own your own fulfillment, you know,

519
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: being happy with yourself um. And so uh, my work

520
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: revolves around working with women uh and mostly in their twenties, thirties,

521
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: and forties, and you know, working through all of the

522
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: issues that we've kind of touched upon today, you know,

523
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, building a strong sense of self and purpose um,

524
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: looking at the things that you value and looking at

525
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 1: your belief systems, you know, looking at the things that

526
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: are blocking you, um from change. UM. And I mean

527
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: when I talk about change, positive change and um, you

528
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: know doing that through you know, building uh relationships, like

529
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: building a good relationship with each other so that you

530
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: can transform your relationship with yourself and then in turn

531
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: transform your relationships with the people in your life. So,

532
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, I, as I think I mentioned before, I

533
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: use ART, I use cognitive behavior therapy. I use some

534
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: elements of you know, somebody based interventions and um, you

535
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: know enjoy also using um, you know, any kinds of

536
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: means in which you know, you express yourself and being

537
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: able to bring that into the therapy room and you know,

538
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: work through uh the things that are important to you wonderful.

539
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: And what about social media? I know a lot of

540
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: people will want to kind of look you up after

541
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: they hear this, So where can we find you on

542
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 1: social media? So uh on social media, I have uh

543
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook pages under it's just the Fulfillment Project.

544
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: And I have a Twitter account and that's at Life

545
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: Points blog and yeah, that's all of my that's yeah,

546
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: there's so many ways you can't get in with me

547
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: perfect and I will include those in the show notes

548
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: as well. Well. Thank you so much to Han. This

549
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: has definitely been an excellent conversation. I think that our

550
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: listeners will be able to get a lot of great

551
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: information about what you share today, so I really appreciate that.

552
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. You're very welcome. So, as

553
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: you heard, Johanna and I had a great conversation about

554
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: a lot of the issues that Joan struggled with, which

555
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: are some of the same issues that a lot of

556
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: black women are still struggling with. I'd love to hear

557
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: your feedback about the episode. Let us know what you thought.

558
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: Remember to find us on social media where on Instagram

559
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: and Facebook at Therapy for Black Girls, and you can

560
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at Therapy for the Number four

561
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: p Girls. And if you have any questions or feedback,

562
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: you can also send us an email at podcast at

563
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Looking forward to continue

564
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: in this conversation with you real soon. Take care,