WEBVTT - Lula Promises Vows To Challenge Corruption Conviction (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine a former president of a country found guilty of

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<v Speaker 1>corruption and money laundering, who remains one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>popular presidents in its history and as a strong contender

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<v Speaker 1>in the next presidential race, and the country's current president

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<v Speaker 1>has also been charged with corruption. It sounds like fiction,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's fact. The country is Brazil and its former president,

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<v Speaker 1>Luis and Nascio Lula da Silva, was found guilty in

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<v Speaker 1>the corruption probe known as car Wash and sentenced to

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<v Speaker 1>nine and a half years in prison. During a speech

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<v Speaker 1>in Salpolo yesterday, Lula blamed the media and prosecutors for

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<v Speaker 1>plotting against him and vowed to appeal. Joining us from

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<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg News Brazilia office is Raymond call it the

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<v Speaker 1>bureau chief. Ray tell us about the charges Lula was

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<v Speaker 1>convicted of. Yes, him, Essentially, he's being accused of having

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<v Speaker 1>taken bribes from construction companies, not in the form of cash,

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<v Speaker 1>but in the form of benefits. We're talking about real

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<v Speaker 1>estate to each side house and improvements up grades to

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<v Speaker 1>to that house. As he said, I mean, it's just huge.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a huge story that it's turned the country upside down.

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<v Speaker 1>This was a man who Barack Obama called the most

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<v Speaker 1>popular politician on earth, and here he is facing perhaps

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<v Speaker 1>as much as a decade in prison. He will, of

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<v Speaker 1>course still still appeal. Well, when he does appeal, he's

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<v Speaker 1>going to claim that his defense wasn't appropriately considered. Vote.

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<v Speaker 1>What's his defense to this, Well, it's basically on technical

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<v Speaker 1>grounds and some of the evidence that they've provided hasn't

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<v Speaker 1>been properly considered. Um, this is but but he's also

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time, he's it's a two pronged approach.

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<v Speaker 1>At the same time, he's claiming that this is some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of political persecution, that the reason that he's being

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<v Speaker 1>charged and sentenced is because he's, you know, still leading

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<v Speaker 1>in the polls. He could come back. He often used

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<v Speaker 1>uses this this idea that you know, he was the

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<v Speaker 1>first working class president and Brazil's establishment, the elite doesn't want, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, another another labor leader in office. Again. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>that has been his line, judging by sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>turnout in the streets the last couple of days, and

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<v Speaker 1>not too many people are buying that line. H. We

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<v Speaker 1>stuff to see their demonstrations planned for for the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>of this month, But so far, um, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>hardcore little supporters aren't aren't to be seen. Ray. He

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<v Speaker 1>can't run if he's if his conviction is upheld, But

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<v Speaker 1>can he run while he's awaiting appeal. That's an excellent question,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's some some technicalities there that that we need.

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<v Speaker 1>According to the law, he needs to be convicted in

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<v Speaker 1>a second by the appeals court. In other words, it

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<v Speaker 1>needs that this ruling needs to be upheld. Now he

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<v Speaker 1>could until then he runs. What what happens if if

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<v Speaker 1>he if he is barred during the process. There's all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of potential legal loopholes here in gray areas that

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<v Speaker 1>aren't entirely clear. Um. The only thing we know so

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<v Speaker 1>far is that if the ruling is upheld, he definitely

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<v Speaker 1>can't run well. And the current Prime Minister is also

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<v Speaker 1>facing the prospect of corruption charges, isn't that right? The

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<v Speaker 1>current president, yes, Michelle Tamer is also is also facing

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<v Speaker 1>the charges that there's Now the difference here is um

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<v Speaker 1>that that his child depends on approval by by Congress.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not actually judges who decide the fate of

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<v Speaker 1>Michelle Tamer the current president, but politicians where he still

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<v Speaker 1>has a majority. So that's one if you would like

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<v Speaker 1>to say one of the flaws of the system. Um

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<v Speaker 1>that if you have enough political support, you may not

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<v Speaker 1>have to face justice. Ray, As you mentioned, Lula is

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<v Speaker 1>an iconic political figure in Brazil and he had a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of support. Why and it seemed to be support

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<v Speaker 1>even during the case. Why do you think that the

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<v Speaker 1>verdict by a judge, not by a jury changed so

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<v Speaker 1>many of his supporters of means that they're not out

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<v Speaker 1>there supporting him. Now, Well, look, I mean there a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of theories about this, and and one goes as

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<v Speaker 1>such that while things are doing well, um, politicians are

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<v Speaker 1>can get away with more. In other words, during the

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<v Speaker 1>past decades of this huge commodity boom, Lula was you know,

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<v Speaker 1>was credited with putting Brazil on the world map. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it hosted the World the World Cup, the Olympics.

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<v Speaker 1>Things were going well. And of course when things are

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<v Speaker 1>going well, you don't, you know, take a second look

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<v Speaker 1>at where all the money is coming from. And now

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<v Speaker 1>that Brazil is in its deepest recession on record, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, leaders have lost popularity and there are prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>out there willing to take a second look, um, and

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<v Speaker 1>well this is what they found. At least that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the theories. That's that's going around right in

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<v Speaker 1>about thirty seconds. You know, this is a huge corruption

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<v Speaker 1>investigation and and it's encompassing a lot of people. Can

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<v Speaker 1>Brazil dig out of this and get to a point

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<v Speaker 1>where it's politics aren't so corrupt? Look that that's another

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<v Speaker 1>We debate this every day here. We hear people debated

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<v Speaker 1>and the elevators in the hallways. Uh, they're mixed feelings.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people are dismayed, say, oh god, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>just corruption everywhere. Everybody's corrupting. Other people are saying, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, we're finally making progress because corruption was always around.

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<v Speaker 1>Now people are starting to judges are starting to clean

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<v Speaker 1>things up, and there's light at the end of the tunnel.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for being with us. That's Raymond College.

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<v Speaker 1>He is the bureau chief of the Bloomberg News Brazilia office,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's reporting on the conviction of this former president

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<v Speaker 1>Luis in Nascio Lula da Silva