1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Afro Tech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: meet innovators. It's the only tech event you need all year. 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: Get ready for afro Tech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: November first through the fifth. 5 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: We built a whole. 6 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: Temper you can use to help you get your employer 7 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: to sponsor your trip and enjoy experiences built for every 8 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: stage your career. 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In an afro Tech, you'll make 18 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: connections to help you get your next opportunity. Visit afrotech 19 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: dot com slash conference to learn more. Osinachi is a 20 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: self taught digital artist based in Legos. First Crypto Artists 21 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: out of Africa. He makes artworks that mirror his personal 22 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: experiences through a unique visual language that he's perfected over 23 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: fifteen years. In addition to numerous collaborations with big players 24 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: in the art world. In twenty twenty one, Olsinnachi became 25 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: the first African artist to auction five unique NFTs in 26 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: Europe through Christie's, the World's Leading Art in Luxury Business. 27 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: He was named as one of the one hundred most 28 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: Influential Africans for twenty twenty two by New African magazine. 29 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: Olsinnati makes his art using the word processing software Microsoft Word. 30 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: You can watch this conversation on our YouTube channel Just 31 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: Serves Black Tech, Green Money. Olsinachi is good to have 32 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: you here. 33 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 2: Thank you will It's good to be here. 34 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: So I would like to have you introduce yourself the 35 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: way you introduce yourself. 36 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: Let's see now howpe I don't leave anything else, but 37 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: I'm Usinachi. I'm a I joined artist based in Legos, Nigeria. 38 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: I make digital arts using Microsoft Word. I've been doing 39 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: that for about seventeen years now, and I work in 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: the NFT space. I use NFT as a technologist to 41 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,639 Speaker 2: sort of push my work. I've been in the space 42 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: for about six years now. Being the first African artist 43 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: in the NFTY space or crypto art space. And yes, 44 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: I've done a few things in the space that I 45 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 2: was worth mentioning, like collaborations, especially with people in the 46 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: traditional art towards say Christie's so the Bees Banams and 47 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: some galleries and the rest of them. And yeah, here 48 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: i am in Toledo as the artist in residence yet 49 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: literally dominisum of art. And it's been a really awesome journey. 50 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: So I'm grateful for that absolutely. 51 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: So in FT use for about six years digital artists about. 52 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: Fifteen plus seventeen years, nineteen years now. 53 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: So how did you get introduced to the technology on 54 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: the blockchain? 55 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: So two thousand and sixteen was when I was finishing 56 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: what we call the National Youth Service CAR in Nigeria 57 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: n YS, which is a mandatoral one year program for 58 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: people who have graduated from the university. And I was 59 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: on the North doing that. And within the period when 60 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: I was doing that, I started thinking, you know, if 61 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: I'm not able to get a job because I started 62 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: Libryan information science, if I'm not able to get a 63 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: job using my certificate, what can I do? You know, 64 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 2: I have my skills as a digital artists, maybe extime 65 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: to explore this thing I've been doing for years and 66 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 2: see how I can mix something out of it. And 67 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: I started looking for opportunities as an artist, you know, naturally. 68 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: I was reaching out to galleries and the rest of them, 69 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: and the response with bs, we love your work, but 70 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: it's digital. So there are issues around digital arts. And 71 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 2: I set up to Google a art one for digital 72 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: art and another for visual art. And one of these days, 73 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: I was exploring the email from Google alart, you know, 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: digital art, and I saw something about art on the 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: blockchain and I started reading and saw what these guys 76 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: were doing, you know, trying to put art on the 77 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: blockchain to sort of offer solution to all of these 78 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: issues that the track art guys were talking about. And 79 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 2: the guys turned out to be Rare at R are 80 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: sadly no longer there. I mean, the market the space 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: has been up and down. So I reached out to 82 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: them and they got me on board. You know. Rare 83 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: Art Marketplace was the first marketplace where I had my 84 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: digital artworks sold. I mean it wasn't really that big 85 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: of a deal in terms of the finance and whatever, 86 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: but for me, it felt like a sort of elevation 87 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 2: beyond Instagram where I just post my work and people 88 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: comment and like and all of that. So this felt 89 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 2: like engaging with collectors, even in the digtal sense of it, 90 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: and also engaging with other artists in the space. 91 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: So are you create on Microsoft ware the word processor 92 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: digital art? And I wonder is that an intentional constraint 93 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: or is this something that just be a lack of resources. 94 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: You didn't have photoshops illustrated, like, how did this? How 95 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: did that happen? 96 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: I always joked that just as Harry Potters want chose him, 97 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: word chose me. And what I mean by that is 98 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: I started out as a reader as a kid. I 99 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: used to read so much. He was even the class reader, 100 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 2: you know, even in secondary school, junior secondary and senior secondary. 101 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: I think it's your high school here, And I used 102 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: to read for the class, you know, read on my 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 2: own when I get home. Even when I used to 104 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: walk whears around the city of Abbat, which is where 105 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: I grew up from my grandmother, I would go and 106 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 2: buy second hand books, you know, and go home and 107 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: read on my own. So reading I started having the 108 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 2: hunger to write also, and I started writing as a kid, 109 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: and from writing, I wanted to show my work to 110 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 2: other people. So the Internet had emerged, you know, and 111 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: abad the end, the cyber cafes were opening up. You know, 112 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 2: you could go in, buy a ticket for one hundred 113 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 2: and AUR for one hour or whatever. And I kept 114 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: bugging my dad because he was the first person in 115 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: our family to start using the internet, because he's a businessman. 116 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,679 Speaker 2: Before he used to send out letters, and the Internet 117 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: came and emails were there for him to use for 118 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: his business. And so one of these days on a Saturday, 119 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 2: he took me to a cyber cafe, opened my first 120 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 2: email to the Yahomil and that was it. He got 121 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 2: busy and I decided to actually get this thing, and 122 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: I would go whenever I had the time, to the 123 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: cyber cafe, buy the tickets, slatted in and do my thing. 124 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: One of the things that I used to do was 125 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: to type on Mycrosoft Word. I remember then that once 126 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: I slotting my ticket and that the computer is open, 127 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: I'd go straight and look for Microsoft Word because I 128 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: need it. If it's not there, I'd look for another 129 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: computer to use right and once Microsoft Word is there, 130 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: what I do is to settle down and start typing 131 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: my manuscripts, but little with poems and short stories, because 132 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 2: I wanted to send them out to drying magazines. You 133 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 2: know that we're just emerging, and sometimes I get bored. 134 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: Of course, sometimes I want to illustrate what I was 135 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: writing about, because the books I had seen, the books 136 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: I had read as a kid, they had illustrations, and 137 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 2: so if I'm writing about a monkey, maybe I want 138 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: to illustrate, you know, show that I'm writing about a monkey. 139 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: And I started playing around with them the drawing tools 140 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: on Word, and that was where it took off. I 141 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: found out at some point that it was better for 142 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: me to create visually using Microsoft Word than to right 143 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: using Microsoft Word. I'm not so good with grammar English. 144 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: It's not my first language, you know, Eden. And also 145 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: I had to write a paragraph after paragraph. But with 146 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 2: the visual with art, it was like just pent it 147 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 2: and it has the same artistic wit as just a 148 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: literary artwork. That's where it started. I kept exploring it 149 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: through the end of my secondary school up into the university, 150 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: and I didn't take it seriously, of course, until twenty sixteen, 151 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 2: when I was about how do I go now to 152 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: start this adulting thing? 153 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mentioned a little bit about the volatility 154 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: in the marketplace. You know, rare is no longer here. 155 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: We're having a big conversation about crypto and the value 156 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: of cryptocurrencies today, and there are a lot of people 157 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: following your footsteps from the continent who are finding a 158 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: path in crypto art, in digital art on the blockchain. 159 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: Can you make an what's your best argument or can 160 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: you make a case for longevity of art on the 161 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: blockchain and the value. 162 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 2: Well, in terms of the longevity and the value of it, 163 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: first of all, the values tied to discarcity which is 164 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: provable and chain right, and in terms of the longevity 165 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: of it. I've had a lot of artists. I was 166 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 2: even having a chat with one a few moments ago. 167 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: He said, it's been a while since he made a 168 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,479 Speaker 2: sale and all of that, and it's discouraging to him. 169 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: And yeah, that that happens, and it's not the first 170 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: time it's happening. In the space. An artist can go, 171 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 2: say one year and you haven't made a sale for 172 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: one of one you could maybe be selling your editions 173 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: and all of that, but what comes with that is patience, 174 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 2: right as an artist. It's also it could also be 175 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: a time for you to focus on creating and re 176 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: evaluating your creative process when the market is the way 177 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: it is, right, And that is what I tell artists. Yes, 178 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: it's good because in the space you expected to do 179 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: everything as an artist to the centralized, expected to make 180 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: the art market the art connect with collectors just Twitter 181 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 2: every day, right, And not many people can do that, 182 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: And so an artist needs to take the time off 183 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: to actually focus on the craft, focus on their work 184 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: and create. And this period, which is like the bear markets, 185 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: is the perfect time to do that as an artist. 186 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: It's also the perfect time to engage in collaborations. If 187 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: you want to make a market and the space you 188 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: can't do it alone. I know this space is decentralized. 189 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: I'm glad. I'm happy for that. I mean, I keep 190 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: saying the centralization, it's a journey, it's never a destination, right, 191 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 2: And what would even get us closer to having like 192 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: better decentralization in the space is collaboration. So I always 193 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: encourage artists to collaborate, you know, maybe with themselves, with 194 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: other artists, collaborate with institutions, reach out to galleries and 195 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: all of that. That is important. That is one way 196 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 2: to sort of create longevity for your work in the space, 197 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: because collectors want to know if you still be there 198 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 2: three years, four years to come. The space is not 199 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,079 Speaker 2: like the traditional art space where most collectors are interested 200 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: in the elderly artists who maybe ten or twenty years 201 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: who no longer be with us in the space. Collectors 202 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: are interested in you being there. You're not just coming 203 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: to make a few sales and disappear, right because when 204 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 2: you disappear, maybe there isn't much value for your work 205 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: any longer because you're no longer in the space. Right. 206 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 2: So collaboration can give an artist in the space that 207 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: the twos that they need. Actually, when the artist has created, 208 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: what happens with marketing, what happens with these other things, 209 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: reaching out to collectors and all of that, When you 210 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: collaborate with some other people in the space of projects 211 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: in the space or institutions, right, it gives you an edge, Right, 212 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: you only have to worry about it about you're creating, 213 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: and then when you do that, then you are sure 214 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: of longevity. One other thing I want to mention is 215 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: that there's always this way of tying crypto art to 216 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 2: crypto I know that's crypto that when you talk about 217 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 2: NFTs paper also think crypto because of how we've started 218 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 2: out in the space and how it is now. But 219 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily have to be so that when the 220 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 2: crypto market is having an issue, it affects the crypto 221 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: art markets. This happens because they are interconnected, but they 222 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: don't have to be interconnected. There are market places that 223 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: are allowing collectors to collect using their card. You can 224 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: use your bank card to collect NFTs, and I think 225 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: this is something we need to encourage in the space 226 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: so that the outside of the space can keep moving 227 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 2: on even if the crypto site is experiencing some downtime. 228 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: Part of what you talked about with the value of 229 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: the art is some of what could be described as 230 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: a utility, Like what does ownership in this piece give 231 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: me the ability to do? Can you talk a little 232 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: bit about how you, as an artist view the utility side. 233 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: It's also my ticket to the party, or it's also 234 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: my dinner with olsinaci when instead of just I have 235 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: a great piece of art, that I. 236 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: Might be a purist in the sense of the purist 237 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: digital art. I don't think utility is the men thing 238 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: right in the NFTIC space. I think that the art 239 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: is the men thing, those who collected the people who 240 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: collected people's work at Christie's. When thinking about utility, it's 241 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 2: about this work that is history making. Lets you know, 242 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: go in and be a part of the history. Utility 243 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: is good, but that is not what should be expected 244 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: by people who are really collectors in the space. Maybe 245 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: we have to come up with another name for people 246 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: who just want utility and not the art itself, right, 247 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: because you can't call yourself a collector and you're talking 248 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: about utility only. So utility it's good when an artwork 249 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: is an artwork is good when you look at it, 250 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 2: you love the work. It's also good if the artist 251 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: says there's some utility to it, but the utility won't 252 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 2: be there probably ten years from now, but the art 253 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: is going to be there. That's the same thing applies 254 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: to the money we're always talking about in the space. 255 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: The money may not be there maybe ten years from now, 256 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: but the art will still be there. That is why 257 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: I tell people to talk about the art. So collectors 258 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: shouldn't really focus If you earlier collector, you shouldn't be 259 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: focused on utility. Right, there's there's a project that is 260 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 2: coming out where I admit, like two artworks that sort 261 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 2: of show that where an artist who has promised utility 262 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 2: it's cashing out. But the artists who is making good 263 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: artists and seeing so much money, right, and that is 264 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 2: the irony that we're seeing the space and that needs 265 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 2: to change. Really. 266 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, there was this tweet I saw that you put 267 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: up and it said buy that art work today, it 268 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: might be out of your reach tomorrow. 269 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: That's true, and I love that. 270 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: But based on your response to this previous, previous question, 271 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: and also there are so many people coming into the 272 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: art collection space via digital art, how do we get 273 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: more sophisticated about knowing what actually has value? And the 274 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: floor is set, you know, reasonably because the quality of 275 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: this work or this one is just high because it's hype. 276 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 2: First of all, there's there's two sides to that. I 277 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: think there's the subjective side, right, which is the person 278 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: who is buying the work you've seen the work, right, 279 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: And the objective side. Sorry, you've seen the work and 280 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: you know you love the work, right, you're seeing the work, 281 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 2: you love it, fine, you go ahead and buy. You 282 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: don't care whether other people are talking about the work 283 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: or not. You just love it and you and you're 284 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 2: buying it. And then there's a side about epinin right, 285 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: because so many people are talking about this. You want 286 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: to you, you want to buy it. I think that 287 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: the side where I would sort of go with these 288 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: people who are buying the work for the sake of 289 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: the work. Right. If you're buying the work for the 290 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: sake of the work, it contributes to the space in 291 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: a positive way. It adds to the quality of art 292 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: being made in the space. You may not be an expert, 293 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: but you don't have to be an expert to walk 294 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 2: into a museum and say I like this work. Right, 295 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,400 Speaker 2: So people should learn to talk about the arts and 296 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 2: that helps to add quality to the space where you're 297 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: just talking about the money. There are people who are 298 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: good when it comes to creating marketing around the project 299 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: in such a way that you feel like you're missing 300 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: so much. If you don't go in right, it doesn't 301 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: mean that the work they are marketing has quality. There 302 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 2: are projects, especially the most of the projects that have 303 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 2: been put out a few months back, a few years back, 304 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: that the focus is not on the art, so they 305 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: are collectibles. Basically, they are not actually to art, right, 306 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: So the focus is not on the art, and that's 307 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 2: fine if you want to open, because others are opening, 308 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 2: but conversations around the art being made in the space, right, 309 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: It helps to add value to the space because as 310 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 2: an artist, starke care because I like it when people 311 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 2: are talking about the work. It helps me understand where 312 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 2: my mind was when I was creating this work. It 313 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: helps me understand what I've contributed to the world. Right. 314 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 2: It helps the artists who is coming up somewhere in 315 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: Nigeria to understand that if I have to make it 316 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 2: in this space, then I have to create quality artworks, right, 317 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 2: and that that is very much needed. 318 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: So, but there's a level level deeper there on the 319 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: level of sophistication because we're getting so many new people 320 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: into collecting. You know, even at our friend Adam from 321 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: who's at the museum, the director of the museum, I 322 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: will send him a piece of art that I like, 323 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: and he'll send me where it was derived from, like 324 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: this artist, derivative of some other artists that you may 325 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: not even aware of. So coming into this space, if 326 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: I'm new to digital art and I see, you know, 327 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: a piece by John Doe over there. But I don't 328 00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: know that John Doe's work is derivative of OLC nag, 329 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: you know, So how do I get that level of sophistication? 330 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: That is what curation. That is why curation is important 331 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 2: in the space. When we came into the space, we 332 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 2: start out we don't need curation, decentralized and all of that, 333 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: but we found out that the noise became too much 334 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: in the space, and so curation was very much needed. 335 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: And marketplaces I've started curating. For example, I had an 336 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: a slurtop program called Africa Here well in collaboration with 337 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: makers Place, which is one of the marketplaces to bring 338 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 2: African artists onto makers Place, Makers Place like Superraer and 339 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 2: some other marketplaces. They're like, they're curated market places. Right. 340 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: The work has already been done in terms of ensuring 341 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 2: the quality of the artwork, ensuring that the work was 342 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: really made by the artists who claims to have made 343 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 2: to have made the work. So the work has been 344 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: done in terms of the curation, and that is very 345 00:19:54,080 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: much needed curation because when the collector goes on to 346 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 2: make us Place or Superor or lifting Gate to it, 347 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: for example, they're not the work has been done for them. 348 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: What they have to focus on what speaks to them now, right, 349 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 2: that is what they have to focus on. And also 350 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: that is why it is very much important for the 351 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: curated marketplaces to be more open to artists. I know 352 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 2: they have a lot of things they are doing in 353 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: terms of vetting artists and very fine artists, but they 354 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 2: have to create, like certain programs to sort of bring 355 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 2: artists from certain parts of the world onto their platform. 356 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 2: For example, artists from Africa, artists from Nigeria who don't 357 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 2: have as much liverage as artists from say the West. 358 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 2: Right that that is important as an African person, as 359 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: a Nigerian, if I wear a collector, which I am, 360 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 2: but naturally go looking for artworks that speak to my 361 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: experience and if I don't find it, then there's something missing. 362 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: So curation is very much needed to ensure just to 363 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: cation on the intellectual depth that is very much needed 364 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: to ensure quality in this space. 365 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: So you've you mentioned in your intro some of the 366 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: collaborations you've had. Christy Sulby's very highly respected how art 367 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: houses and auction houses, and there are so many other 368 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: great artists out there who may never get those opportunities, 369 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: and I wonder, what are some of the things that 370 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: you did along your journey to create the attention to 371 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: where they learned about you and you know, ultimately generate 372 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: the interest in your worn. 373 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 2: I think that the first thing was to stay authentic 374 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: in my work and the sort of work I create. 375 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: I wasn't trying to copy anybody just because that person 376 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 2: was selling, right. I just stayed true to my work, 377 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: my style. Right. If you're an artist, you have a 378 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: journey right in front of you. The first journey is 379 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 2: to of course learn the thing about art and whatever, 380 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 2: but do first most important journey is to find your 381 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 2: unique voice in the space in the arts. And it's 382 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: it's important because I am also actally, I shouldn't go 383 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 2: painting like basketyad because that's basketyat right. So when you 384 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 2: find your unique voice, then you can It means stain 385 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 2: authentic in what you're doing, your story, the issues you 386 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: tackle through your work, which can evolve over time, and 387 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 2: these things are not like straight jacketed. It can evolve, 388 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 2: you can change over time. Then you have to move 389 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: intentionally right in the space. You have to ask yourself 390 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 2: where do you want to be and who are those 391 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 2: you think that can take you there? And then you 392 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 2: go knocking on their doors. That is what I've basically 393 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 2: been doing, even before entering the NFTY space tends. I 394 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: sent a lot like so much they are still there 395 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 2: from twenty seventeen to twenty eighteen, like send it out 396 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 2: by portfolio, and funnily enough, some would get back and 397 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 2: it's the same story. And I remember one gallery somewhere 398 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: in Europe, I think it's in London that I received 399 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 2: a reply and it says, it said, what does it 400 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 2: what does he mean by he makes this on microsoftware? 401 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: Obviously I wasn't supposed to see that. It's supposed to 402 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: supposed to be an internal in the and yeah, so 403 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 2: you get responded to a b CC and yeah, exactly, 404 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 2: so you you'd see all of that. It's it's it's 405 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: it's normal. So you have to move intentionally, and you 406 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: have to reach out to artists who you think have 407 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: been there where you want to be, so they can 408 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 2: also help guide you, they can help make connections. That's 409 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: also one thing that comes with being a crypto art og, 410 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: which is that I've worked with these marketplaces. I've worked 411 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: with these guys, and I can talk to them right. 412 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 2: They may not say yes, but at least they'd be 413 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 2: a off what I'm telling them about. 414 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: Afro Tech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies 415 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: meet innovators. It's the only tech event you need all year. 416 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: Get ready for Afrotech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, 417 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: November first through the fifth. 418 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: We built a whole. 419 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: Temper you can use to help you get your employer 420 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: to sponsor your trip and enjoy experiences built for every 421 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: stage your career. Whether you're a college student looking for 422 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: your next internship, or if you're work in a venture 423 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: capital looking for your next business to invest in, and 424 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: if you're looking for a co founder or people that's 425 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: on your team, there's no better place to be. The 426 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: massive corporate layoffs of twenty twenty two and twenty twenty 427 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: three have affected our community in a big way. An 428 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: Afrotech wants to help you get back on your feet 429 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: with skill development, making it easier to switch industries. If 430 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: that's your route. In an afro tech, you'll make connections 431 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: to help you get your next opportunity. Visit afrotech dot 432 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: com slash conference to learn more. So I want to 433 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: ask you about what's happening right now in crypto with 434 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: it and how it relates to NFTs. So I have 435 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: this conversation a lot because the market's down in crypto, 436 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: that there's people who say, you know, I told you 437 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: the crypto was a scam, etcetera, etcetera cetera, And I'm like, 438 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: you know, look, I think about you know, the great 439 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: philosopher Kanye West saying listen to the kids, bro. And 440 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: so I have kids, and if I had one hundred 441 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: dollars bill in cash US dollars and one hundred dollars 442 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: in Roebucks roadblocks dollars, they would have a difficult time 443 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: deciding which one to take. And that tells me a 444 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: lot because their popularity, their friends, their community is on 445 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: this virtual in this virtual world, and so therefore the 446 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: things that give them prestige is represented by virtual goods. 447 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: And the same thing with digital art. I think about 448 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: it in ways of Okay, I owned these pfps, I 449 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: own this digital art, I own these other pieces from 450 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: artists I've collected. How do you imagine spaces will evolve 451 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: to be able to display my work that I've collected? 452 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 2: I think certainly happening we have companies that are making 453 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 2: screens that you can used to show your digital art 454 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: collection that that is there. I'm also grateful for the 455 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: experience of people in the traditional artwords who are using 456 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 2: you know, their skills and the track art toword and 457 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 2: bringing it into the NFT space, you know, to help 458 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: in terms of curation and display and all of that. 459 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 2: And that's the beautiful thing I like about what I've 460 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: been doing for the past three years or so, which 461 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: is collaborating with the TRAT art space guys and bridging 462 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: both spaces, right so that we can take the positive 463 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: from here and take the positive from here and move on, 464 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 2: you know, and make the world really a better place. 465 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: So that that's that's basically what I think about that. 466 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: So I think about I was looking up your work 467 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: on open ce and different platforms, and I wonder how 468 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: artists go about pricing that initial offering. So one piece 469 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: made the initial floor be it. Let's say I'm making 470 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: up numbers per point one eth, but you may feel 471 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: this one I'm going to put up a of one eth, 472 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: you know, one full eth. How do you go about 473 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: determining what that initial price is going to be? 474 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 2: M M, Well, as an artisude has been there for years. 475 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 2: I'd look at the past sales I've made and how 476 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 2: the market has naturally moved my price up right, and 477 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 2: so I can decide on the price to peg on that. 478 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 2: I can also decide to let the forces of the 479 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: markets do its then, for example, ments a piece and 480 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 2: put it out there and start getting beat so bid 481 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 2: one maybe twenty k, B two forty k So you 482 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 2: let the market sort of decide that also for you. 483 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 2: But if you're a new artist in the space, you 484 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 2: want to start small. You want to start little right 485 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: because that what you're trying to do is to show 486 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: people that this is what I do. There's a consistency 487 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 2: to what I do, and there's a promise here right 488 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: in terms of value. So I want you to come 489 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: in at this small price range and appreciate my work. 490 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 2: So you start little there, and you could what I've 491 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: noticed that you could get caught in the in the 492 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 2: web of littleness what I call it, and that is 493 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 2: that I've there's this artist, Nigerian artist who makes incredible 494 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 2: work and he when he came into this space, he 495 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 2: started putting out his work for one eh one one one, 496 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: I just kept going at one it and he reached 497 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: out to me and said, oh, my work isn't selling 498 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: for so much and all of that. I told him, 499 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: you have to do something yourself. You can sort of 500 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 2: push your price up, and he tried it and went 501 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 2: to five and people, of course still kept buying, right, 502 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: So you don't want to be caught in that. 503 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: And that's little littleness. 504 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: So it's it's it's there's no one answer, really, you 505 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: just have to sort of read the room and see 506 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: what is happening. 507 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a quote I found you said you you 508 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: were talking about the decentralization and traditional spaces and not 509 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: and originally being embraced by traditional art spaces. You said, 510 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: we were looking for a more decentralized world because our 511 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: experiences in the real world where gatekeepers are just holding 512 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: onto the keys and allowing only those who they want 513 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: to put through those gates. And so the decentralized nature 514 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: of n f ts and digital art allows people to 515 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: just do what's authentic to them. This is not you saying, 516 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying this now, and so can you talk about 517 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: how digital art is being embraced by traditional institutions that 518 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: historically did not embrace it. 519 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 2: It's it's it's interesting. First of all, I'm surprised I 520 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 2: said that that is a quote by me. That's deep, 521 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: that's deep, you know, it was that intelligence. But what 522 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: is happening now is that, first of all, these traditional 523 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 2: arts institutions like auction houses, museums, galleries, they know that 524 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: digital arts at least some in the with then if 525 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 2: you have a basket of digital art, you can find 526 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: some that you can recont with, that you like, that 527 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: you can put in your space. Right. But before the blockchain, 528 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 2: they didn't know how to, you know, show proof of authenticity, 529 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 2: proof of ownership, proof of scarcity and all of that. Yeah, 530 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 2: and then the blockchain came and offered that, and then 531 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 2: the value came with digital art. And then with the 532 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 2: value came their own interest in digital arts, which we 533 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 2: are seeing now, right. And what I've seen is that 534 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: there's a lot of knowledge that they are bringing as 535 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: traditional art specialists into the digital art world. Right. I 536 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 2: think I've said this before in terms of creation and 537 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 2: display and all of that. But furthermore, they are engaging 538 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 2: with digital art in very new ways. For example, museums, 539 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: I would say this is pioneering through the Toledo Museum 540 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: of Art. They are using n f TIS as a 541 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: way to engage their community, right, just beyond the physical, 542 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 2: just beyond the other thing there's been. The other things 543 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: they've been doing before, n ft IS are now serving 544 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: as a way for them to engage their community. The 545 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 2: same thing is happening with auction houses, which are now 546 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: expanding their collector based the people that they've been working with, 547 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 2: right and they are now providing services to people who 548 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 2: are interested in digital art, maybe for the first time, 549 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 2: or people who have been interested in digital art from 550 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 2: the start. Same thing is happening with galleries, which are 551 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: now learning about NFTs and digital arts. You are forced 552 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 2: to learn if you're a gallery owner, you have to 553 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: know what's happening because the collectors you've been working with 554 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 2: over the years are interested in this thing that is 555 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 2: making waves. They're asking themselves what are nft is, what 556 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 2: is all this? And they would come to you naturally 557 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: ask the gallery to ask questions because you always guide 558 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: them in terms of collecting. So you have to do 559 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 2: the work and you are forced to do the work, 560 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 2: and generally that helps the digital artists. And so before 561 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 2: digital art is to be at the bottom of the shelf. 562 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: Now it's right there, up there with the traditional arts 563 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 2: pieces that you see at museums. My work has been 564 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 2: collected by a museum before akg Art Museum ten years ago. 565 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: I'd never had had that dream, like I never thought 566 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: that that would happen. And yeah, it's it's about the 567 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 2: digital artists right now, people say, why would someone buy 568 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 2: and a distal artwork for sixty nine million dollars. It's 569 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: not about the money, it's about the message that sense, 570 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 2: which is that digital art has come to stay. It's 571 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 2: no longer the times have passed when corporations and whoever 572 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 2: can reach out to digital artists and say, hey, do 573 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,959 Speaker 2: this project for us, and they pay you one thousand 574 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: dollars and their own whatever you've created, and then you 575 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: go through the cycle of looking for another gig, and 576 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 2: then you never get to make the kind of art 577 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 2: you want to make it because you're hungry. And now 578 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: you're sure that you can put food on your table 579 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: as a digital artist somehow through and yeah also through 580 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 2: Royaltists for life and to be able to create the 581 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: kind of art that you want to that you want 582 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 2: to make. So this guy is coming in. I think 583 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: it's I think it's a it's a great thing. But 584 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 2: of course there are web two brands that are making mistakes. 585 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 2: You know, I don't think they fully understand what is happening, 586 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: and mistakes are lessons. I guess they'll learn and maybe 587 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: find a way to come back better. 588 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: I want you to talk about Maker's Place a little 589 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: bit of your accelerator and why was it important to 590 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: you to create an accelerator to help other African designers 591 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: artists find their way through the world of nfties. 592 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 2: So at some point I started getting messages from Nigerian 593 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: artists and artists from other parts of Africa that, oh, 594 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 2: they've sent their application to this marketplace and it took 595 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: them eight months to get a response, and when they 596 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 2: got the response, it wasn't no, and so on and 597 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 2: so forth. And that got me thinking that if these 598 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 2: curated market places are just not paying attention to the 599 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: location of artists who are sending in their applications and 600 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 2: probably prioritizing, you know, some of the artists based on 601 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 2: the artists they already had. For example, you could have 602 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 2: one hundred artists on your platform and seventy percent of 603 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 2: them are from the US. Or wherever, and twenty percent 604 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: they are from Europe and the only ten percent are 605 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 2: from say Asia or Africa. Right combined, that doesn't help 606 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 2: the space in terms of the stories you want to 607 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: put out through the art that you are helping these 608 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 2: artists sell. And so I started advocating for sort of 609 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 2: equal grounds and the sort of priority also for African artists. 610 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 2: So what Africa here did in collaboration with marketplaces to 611 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 2: make Us Place, sorry, is to remove that hurdle of hey, 612 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 2: come and putting your application and wait for us to 613 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 2: get back to you. Right. It became a way for 614 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 2: these artists to, through the quality work they are doing, 615 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 2: get onboarded on Make Us Place without having to apply, 616 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 2: and also have their work shown at Basil Miami, which 617 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 2: was what sort of capped off the whole thing. 618 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: Astley, I want you to just talk a little bit 619 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: about any responsibility you might feel as we're having this 620 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: conversation about longevity of digital art on the on the blackchain. 621 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: What kind of responsibility if any, do you feel to 622 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: be representative of success as an artist who's focused on 623 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: digital media. 624 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 2: M In terms of the responsibility, I think, first of all, 625 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 2: I have a responsibility to stay authentic in what I do, 626 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 2: no matter what comes right, A responsibility to keep walking 627 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 2: through doors as the first person to go through those doors, 628 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 2: and to leave those doors open, to hold those doors 629 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: open for other artists who are other digital artists who 630 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 2: are coming after me. I feel a responsibility to we 631 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 2: focus people's attention from talking about the money to talking 632 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: about the art itself, right, And I hope other artists 633 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 2: would do the same thing. I hope that collectors and 634 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 2: the space would do the same thing because the space 635 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: has changed in so many ways. There are so many 636 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 2: crypto art ogies who are not so happy with what 637 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,760 Speaker 2: is happening in the space. It's not toward their envision. 638 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 2: It's like it's been hijacked. Right. But we can't run away, right. 639 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 2: We just have to keep advocating, keep doing our thing 640 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,479 Speaker 2: and telling people how we think it to be best 641 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 2: for the space to turn out to be, because when 642 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 2: you look at it ten years from now, you'd see 643 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 2: that we're not really just working for ourselves. We're working 644 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 2: for the kids who are coming up, who are growing 645 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: up with screens, who are going to be looking at 646 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: distal arts like almost all their life. We're going to 647 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 2: walk into museums or galleries and digital artists very much 648 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 2: part and parcel of the collection. The most Nagy Thank you, 649 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 2: Thank you Mane. 650 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,839 Speaker 1: Afrotech is a global gathering where inclusive tech companies meet innovators. 651 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: It's the only tech event you need all year. Get 652 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: ready for Afrotech twenty twenty three in Austin, Texas, November 653 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: first through the fifth. 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