Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
Speaker 1: husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, z
Speaker 1: EFFI bast start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to the Shrektel Cast.
Speaker 3: Whoas twenty twenty four baby nothing matters anymore and we're
Speaker 3: rebranding women. It's over intersectionality.
Speaker 2: It's all about Shreks now, it's all.
Speaker 3: About Shrek hates being a father. After one week, it's
Speaker 3: so hard, it stinks. We don't like it. Oh, raising
Speaker 3: my own children. I feel fucking sick in my head.
Speaker 2: What would the Shrektel test be? Oh?
Speaker 3: I think this? Okay? I was gonna make an argument
Speaker 3: that this movie really passes attractile test because it's like,
Speaker 3: how many Shreks are talking to each other about being
Speaker 3: Shrek in this movie. Like there's a whole sequence whereas
Speaker 3: just like Shreks are talking to Shreks are talking to Shreks,
Speaker 3: and they're talking about liberating Shreks. I'm like, this is like,
Speaker 3: this is the Shrek Dell test.
Speaker 2: All.
Speaker 3: It was like it's almost like you know when you
Speaker 3: see seeing in a Marvel movie that it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: someone told Kevin Faigey about the Bechdel Test, and now
Speaker 3: he's like, well, just have something, have something, and it
Speaker 3: feels forced. It was like that, but with like four
Speaker 3: hundred Shreks.
Speaker 2: I there's a John ham Shrek. There's a unbelieveable Craig
Speaker 2: Robinson Shrek.
Speaker 3: There is a Craig Robinson Shrek. There's a Kristin Shawl Shrek.
Speaker 2: No witch, but there is a everyone is Jane Lynch's Shrek.
Speaker 3: There is a Jane Lynch Shrek. And if that's not
Speaker 3: twenty ten, tell me what is.
Speaker 2: I mean? Seriously, the witches have green skin. You think
Speaker 2: there would be solid among the witches and the Shreks.
Speaker 3: And I have some thoughts on that, and I have
Speaker 3: some thoughts on that. And also like the randomest man
Speaker 3: in the world, Walt Dorn, who no offense to Walt Dorn,
Speaker 3: but who are you? It's baffling. Anyways, He's truly some guy.
Speaker 3: He like works in animation and they're like, you're fun,
Speaker 3: and it's like he, I mean, whatever, whatever. This is
Speaker 3: a main feed. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name's
Speaker 3: Jimmie Loftis.
Speaker 2: My name is Caitlin Derante, and this is our show
Speaker 2: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminis lens. Before
Speaker 2: we even get into more details about that, the Shrek sinle?
Speaker 2: What Intershrek sinle? Excuse me, I can't try to say
Speaker 2: Intershrek sinle?
Speaker 3: No feminist lens.
Speaker 2: Do you see your isaacly I did see it and
Speaker 2: I loved it.
Speaker 3: Thank you Aten.
Speaker 2: Before we talk any more about intertrectionality, yep, I would
Speaker 2: love to plug the tour that we have coming up. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: So you might have already heard listeners that Jamie and
Speaker 2: I are going on tour and it's for the most
Speaker 2: part a tour where we are covering the movie Barbie,
Speaker 2: so get excited. We are doing shows in San Francisco
Speaker 2: for SF Sketch Fest on February first, then we're scooping
Speaker 2: over to Sacramento. We're doing a show on Barbie that
Speaker 2: unfortunately is already sold out, but we are doing a
Speaker 2: second show on the Wolf of Wall Street because we're like,
Speaker 2: we got to double up on Margot Robbie movies.
Speaker 3: Which is such a confusing thing to pair with Barbie
Speaker 3: that it is not yet sold out and you could
Speaker 3: still get tickets to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, we were like, should we do Oppenheimer And
Speaker 2: then we were unanimously like, no, we should not, thank you,
Speaker 2: so we're doing Wolf of Wall Street instead. There are
Speaker 2: still tickets available to that show in Sacramento on February second.
Speaker 2: On February third, we will be in Dallas covering Barbie.
Speaker 2: Still tickets to that show available. On February fifth, we
Speaker 2: will be in Austin, and then we're scooting back to
Speaker 2: California to do a show in San Diego on February tenth,
Speaker 2: and all of those shows are also us covering Barbie,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna have a blast. We have so much
Speaker 2: fun during the live shows. We do extra things. We
Speaker 2: do slide shows, we do games, we wear fun outfits.
Speaker 2: There's lots of goofs. We usually eat on stage, you know,
Speaker 2: things like that.
Speaker 3: There's always a meet and greed afterwards. There's tour exclusive birch.
Speaker 3: It's a blast and actually I feel like to transition
Speaker 3: back to the main episode that today we'll have a
Speaker 3: similar vibe because they tend to be kind of chaotic
Speaker 3: and fun. We like to cover fun movies live and
Speaker 3: we also love to cover fun but also socially impactful
Speaker 3: movies to start the But if you would like to
Speaker 3: get tickets to that that tour, which you should, Yes,
Speaker 3: you can go to the link in the bio or
Speaker 3: go to link tree our link tree which is l
Speaker 3: I n K t R dot ee slash Bechdel Cast
Speaker 3: pain in the ass. Well worth it and we'll see
Speaker 3: you at the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But now back to Shrek.
Speaker 3: Back to the Shrektel cast. Yeah, okay, so this is
Speaker 3: it's interesting. I feel like, because our show has been
Speaker 3: around for so long, we're reaching the end of a
Speaker 3: lot of franchises we've been covering for for many years.
Speaker 3: I mean, we fortunately they made a season two of
Speaker 3: the Santa claus Is for us to cover with Grace
Speaker 3: this year. But you know, for a while, it seemed
Speaker 3: like we were we were gonna be out right, and
Speaker 3: we have. We still have the Puss and Booth spin offs.
Speaker 3: But this is the final canonical Shrek movie we have
Speaker 3: not covered on the show. We're covering Shrek now forever after.
Speaker 3: Should we tell people what the Buckdel cast test is?
Speaker 2: Well, we already discussed the Shrektel test, and I think
Speaker 2: that covers it now. Yeah, the show is named after
Speaker 2: the Bechdel Test, although we only ever use it as
Speaker 2: a jumping off point to initiate larger conversations about representation
Speaker 2: and intersectionality.
Speaker 3: And the truth.
Speaker 2: And it is a media metric created by Allison Bechdel
Speaker 2: along with her pal Liz Wallace, and so it's often
Speaker 2: called the Bechdel Wallace Test. It was a test that
Speaker 2: first appeared in Allison Bechdel's Duck to Watch Out For
Speaker 2: in the eighties, examining how women rarely speak to each
Speaker 2: other in movies, and specifically queer women in the representation
Speaker 2: of them in mainstream cinema. So that was what the
Speaker 2: test was originally. There are many versions of it. Ours
Speaker 2: is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names?
Speaker 2: Do they speak to each other? And is their conversation
Speaker 2: about something other than a man? And we especially like
Speaker 2: it if the conversation has some kind of like narrative
Speaker 2: oomph to.
Speaker 3: It, a little hoof, a little oof, a little fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yes, that is the Bechdel Test. Not to
Speaker 2: be confused with the Shrektel test, which.
Speaker 3: We already we don't even need to talk about it
Speaker 3: again because we already know that this movie heartily passes heavily.
Speaker 3: But yeah, today we are talking about Shrek Forever after
Speaker 3: Shrek four. Many call it Shrek Forever after it was
Speaker 3: released in twenty ten, which I know because I went
Speaker 3: on a date to see this movie in high school.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. It made three quarters of a
Speaker 3: billion dollars, which is a really shocking statistic for a
Speaker 3: movie that is both eighty minutes long and horrible, not
Speaker 3: very good. I would say this is the weakest installed.
Speaker 3: It's the weakest installment for me by a country mile.
Speaker 2: Really, It's just I find Shrek the Third to be
Speaker 2: a lot less.
Speaker 3: Enjoyable Shrek the Third. I mean, I guess that this
Speaker 3: one is mercifully shorter.
Speaker 2: It's not even they're both like eighty one minutes long.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, Okay, I mean I guess I the third
Speaker 3: one is with Arty right ARTI pendrive.
Speaker 2: Justin Timberlake, isn't it?
Speaker 3: For some reason, the justin Timberlake one is pretty bad.
Speaker 3: I still feel like Shrek four takes it for me, uh,
Speaker 3: just because of the internal messaging. I feel like, you know,
Speaker 3: in Shrek one, and we've talked about this show, how
Speaker 3: Shrek changed everything. And I'm just quoting James Gun when
Speaker 3: I say that, Yeah, yeah, of course Shrek changed everything.
Speaker 3: And I think that that is unfortunately, whether you like
Speaker 3: it or not, that is true. Yeah, Shrek changed children's
Speaker 3: entertainment for a long time, forever after, even forever after.
Speaker 3: It ain't ogre till it's ogre to quote the poster
Speaker 3: of this movie.
Speaker 2: But the tagline of the movie.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, Yes, because this was marketed as the final chapter. Oh,
Speaker 3: that's which I mean in terms of canonical Shrek movies,
Speaker 3: it's the you know, it's been fourteen years now, it's
Speaker 3: been fourteen years and I can still smell the fresh farts. Wow.
Speaker 3: We have options, But in any case, I feel like
Speaker 3: this franchise starts with like Fiona, who, as we've talked
Speaker 3: about over the years, is she a you know, perfect
Speaker 3: feminist character. No, but I feel like she is like disenfranchised.
Speaker 3: Does the movies go on like Shrek One Fiona is
Speaker 3: the best Fiona, and then we just see her like
Speaker 3: wifified and in Shrek Forever After, which we'll talk about,
Speaker 3: we see an alternate reality Fiona where she is more empowered. Yes,
Speaker 3: but also there's all I don't know I think that
Speaker 3: this the Shrek Forever After kind of fucked with my
Speaker 3: head because we just covered because we're recording this in
Speaker 3: late December, we just did our live show about It's
Speaker 3: a Wonderful Life, and I'm just bowled over with how
Speaker 3: many feature films there are about how the world would
Speaker 3: be a shithole if one man didn't exist. I just
Speaker 3: don't buy it.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're on the same wavelength as per usual. Because
Speaker 2: I finished this movie, I was like, Wow, that was
Speaker 2: just the exact same plot as It's a Wonderful Life. However,
Speaker 2: which movie do I like more? I think that Shrek
Speaker 2: Forever After is a better movie than It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 2: And I know that is probably one of the most
Speaker 2: controversial statements ever made, But I have a master's degree
Speaker 2: in film and screenwriting, which I would never mention, but
Speaker 2: it does give me the credibility to say that, and
Speaker 2: you have to believe me, and you have to agree
Speaker 2: with me because of my credentials.
Speaker 3: I respect your a pion, Yeah, thank you so much,
Speaker 3: our respect your opinion. This movie stinks. This movie is stinky,
Speaker 3: stinky poop poop. But but who's going to argue with
Speaker 3: a quarter billion or three quarters of a billion dollars.
Speaker 3: I have one last thing to say before we talk
Speaker 3: about this. For over an hour, I was thinking about
Speaker 3: the year twenty ten, right, Obama's first term. Yeah, remember
Speaker 3: that in any case, Shrek as a popular You know,
Speaker 3: this is a decade that Shrek owns true, right, Yes,
Speaker 3: but things in movies are shifting. Shrek Forever After did
Speaker 3: it make seven hundred and fifty six million dollars. It
Speaker 3: sure did, But that is less money than Shrek the
Speaker 3: Third Maid and even less money than Shrek two made.
Speaker 3: Wo So Shrek's on the downturn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
Speaker 3: And also four movies in a decade, that's a lot.
Speaker 3: That's a lot. That's you know, we've maybe reached peak
Speaker 3: Shrek saturation. We've also I've got Kung Fu Panda, right,
Speaker 3: We've got other DreamWorks that comes out in two thousand
Speaker 3: and eight, kind of coming for Shrek's Crown, that comes
Speaker 3: up between Shrek the Third and Shrek Forever After. But
Speaker 3: most pertinently, and I feel like you know where I'm
Speaker 3: going with this. Oh, I already know a very important
Speaker 3: movie comes out in twenty ten, and I would say
Speaker 3: derails Shrek's chances at being a powerful franchise for over
Speaker 3: a decade. Okay, maybe even a more dominant species. I mean,
Speaker 3: do you know what movie I'm talking about?
Speaker 2: Obviously you're talking about Despicable Me starring the Minions.
Speaker 3: Yes, I had to check because I also went on
Speaker 3: a date in high school to see Despicable of Me.
Speaker 3: Of course, because when I was in high school I
Speaker 3: was ten.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know if you remember this, but I
Speaker 2: went back and re listened to our Shrek the Third
Speaker 2: episode in which you very publicly and openly say that
Speaker 2: you got fingered during the screen of Shrek the Third
Speaker 2: in the theater.
Speaker 3: I wasn't going to bring that up today because New
Speaker 3: Year knew me. But you're right, I have to No, no, no,
Speaker 3: don't edit it out. I need to own my past.
Speaker 3: You're right, and you would be right to say it.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Wow. I really don't know how to look out for
Speaker 3: myself whatsoever. Okay, So running the numbers, Running the numbers,
Speaker 3: because a little film called Despicable Me comes out in
Speaker 3: twenty ten. Let's see how close they came out together. Okay,
Speaker 3: Despicable Me starring of course grew in Le Mignon's that
Speaker 3: comes out June ninth. Shrek Forever After, I think would
Speaker 3: come out a little earlier. Yes, April May, in wide
Speaker 3: release May twenty first.
Speaker 2: That's my sister's birthday.
Speaker 3: Wow, she must have been so thrilled this year.
Speaker 2: Yes, she was.
Speaker 3: So they come out within a month of each other.
Speaker 3: Now I'm looking at domestic gross because Shrek Forever After
Speaker 3: it's got global clout, right, so it takes despicable me
Speaker 3: over in worldwide gross, but domestic grows. Something fascinating happens.
Speaker 3: Despicable me edges. Shrek for Americans are done with this guy.
Speaker 3: American said, no, we won't give him any more than
Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty eight million dollars, seven hundred and
Speaker 3: thirty six, seven hundred eighty seven dollars. Okay, But these
Speaker 3: new guys, the Minions, they're like, wait, big Green guy,
Speaker 3: more like little little Yellow guy, because they give the
Speaker 3: minions two hundred and fifty one million, five hundred and
Speaker 3: thirteen thousand, nine hundred and eighty five dollars just a
Speaker 3: smidge more.
Speaker 2: Uh huh.
Speaker 3: And I just think that's it. There's sort of like
Speaker 3: a changing of the because Shrek changed everything. But also
Speaker 3: you gotta hang up that leather vest at some point.
Speaker 2: Pals It's true. Well, and now we are in minion era.
Speaker 2: We are in the minion era Shrek era over except
Speaker 2: I know if you google is Shrek five happening? I
Speaker 2: know the answer is Shrek five is slated to come
Speaker 2: out in twenty twenty five, So we are actually not
Speaker 2: done with Shrek.
Speaker 3: And I'm I'm thrilled and I think I honestly, as
Speaker 3: I was watching this movie, I was telling my boyfriend
Speaker 3: was like, I really think if Shrek came back after
Speaker 3: fifteen years and he's been on a fascinating I mean,
Speaker 3: and I'm not going to get into my history of
Speaker 3: the Shrek culture. I know I've done on the show before,
Speaker 3: but he'd been on this fascinating journey where he's like
Speaker 3: kind of a big joke but also so beloved that
Speaker 3: I feel like Shrek would be Shrek five would make
Speaker 3: a billion dollars if it was good. If it was good,
Speaker 3: it would make a billion dollars if it.
Speaker 2: Was like Shrek two quality.
Speaker 3: Exactly, or even I mean, I think we can even
Speaker 3: dream bigger the last Oh yeah, and also I wanted
Speaker 3: to say, the next highest grossing movie after Despicable Me
Speaker 3: was inception. I just thought that was funn.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I think.
Speaker 3: And also the minions have been you know, dominant for
Speaker 3: you know, over ten years, going on fifteen years now,
Speaker 3: so it's it's time for a challenger to enter the ring.
Speaker 3: Certainly not gonna be Secret Life of motherfucking Pets, I'll
Speaker 3: tell you that much boo toy story for dogs. Try harder.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, anyway, okay, so you what's your history for
Speaker 2: Shrek four. I had never seen it before. This was
Speaker 2: the only Shrek installment that I well, not including I
Speaker 2: haven't seen the first Puss and Boots movie. I famously
Speaker 2: love Puss and Boots the Last Wish, which came out
Speaker 2: in late twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: I finally saw it a couple of weeks ago. It's great.
Speaker 2: Do you think, isn't it so good? It's really good,
Speaker 2: and it's beautiful. It's so well animated. Yeah, Visually it's amazing,
Speaker 2: Narratively it's amazing. Thematically, it's amazing. I love that movie. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I had never seen Shrek four because yeah, by the
Speaker 2: time time twenty ten rolled around, I think I did
Speaker 2: have Shrek fatigue, and yeah, I just wasn't we were
Speaker 2: suffering enthusiastic about it anymore. So I didn't see it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's my short history with Shrek Forever after.
Speaker 2: But you saw it in theaters?
Speaker 3: Yes, I did, and I have nothing else to say.
Speaker 2: Cool cool, cool, All right, Well, Shelby dive deeper into
Speaker 2: it and do the recap.
Speaker 3: Oh I guess I should say I also did not
Speaker 3: like this movie when it came out. In my opinion
Speaker 3: has not been unfortunately, you know, time has not healed
Speaker 3: that wound for me. I still don't like it.
Speaker 2: I see for me. The ranking goes as follows Shrek
Speaker 2: two number one, Shrek one number two, Shruk four number three,
Speaker 2: and then Shrek three number four. Wow, amazing, I'm going
Speaker 2: to and.
Speaker 3: Thret four, three and four are both so storid. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they might be tied for last because I kind of
Speaker 3: forgot about the whole the justin Timberlake of it all
Speaker 3: that was really challenging. But I also hate, like, I
Speaker 3: just feel like rumpel Stiltskin should just be far Quad again.
Speaker 3: Why are we? Why are we doing rumpel Stiltskin. Can't
Speaker 3: we just like give far Quad a magic wand like
Speaker 3: I feel like it's the same.
Speaker 2: Character Yeah, I'm just fatigued. It's annoying. Should I say
Speaker 2: what the movie is about?
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break first, and then we'll come
Speaker 2: back for the recap. We're back, all right? Here is
Speaker 2: this Shrek Forever?
Speaker 3: After buckle In.
Speaker 2: The movie opens on the standard Shrek storybook opening, explaining
Speaker 2: that Fiona's parents, the King and Queen, had locked Fiona
Speaker 2: in a tower guarded by a dress, but as time
Speaker 2: wore on and her curse still hadn't been broken, they
Speaker 2: had to resort to desperate measures. So we cut to
Speaker 2: the King and Queen approaching rumpel stilt Skin, voiced by
Speaker 2: what's his name again, Walt Dorn.
Speaker 3: I feel so bad, but I'm like, who is this bad? It?
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess, I guess it's kind of a
Speaker 3: double standard because you're like, oh, who voices the minions?
Speaker 3: Pierre Colfet, That's who. But he also is like some
Speaker 3: random guy in animation. But he's not some random guy
Speaker 3: and animation anymore. I mean, fortunately, Walt Dorn still some
Speaker 3: random guy and animation where Pierre Coffin has transcended and
Speaker 3: is the voice of every minion.
Speaker 2: Wow. Amazing.
Speaker 3: Anyways, random guy don't know, Okay.
Speaker 2: So they approach rumpel Stiltskin to see if he can
Speaker 2: put an end to Fiona's curse that turns her into
Speaker 2: an ogre at night, and rumpel Stiltskin's like, yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: do it, and in exchange, you have to sign away
Speaker 2: the kingdom far far away.
Speaker 3: These damn parents are just terrific. Maybe it's maybe it's
Speaker 3: like commentary or something, but they just, like in each
Speaker 3: and every movie, they mismanage and gamble their people's lives
Speaker 3: away because they're embarrassed of their daughter's physical appearance.
Speaker 2: It's so bad, yep, okay. So they are about to
Speaker 2: sign away their kingdom in exchange for like Fiona's curse
Speaker 2: to be lifted, but just then someone comes in to
Speaker 2: be like Princess Fiona has been saved parentheses by Shrek,
Speaker 2: and this makes Rumpelstiltskin furious because he wants control over
Speaker 2: far far away. We then cut to Shrek in his swamp.
Speaker 2: He and Fiona are raising their three ogre babies.
Speaker 3: As promised at the end of Shrek the Third. Can
Speaker 3: I just say and let me know if this is
Speaker 3: at a pocket? I hate looking at those damn Ogre babies.
Speaker 3: They look like shit. They're so oh I hate they
Speaker 3: make me sick to look they look like adults.
Speaker 2: It's upsetting. I don't like them either.
Speaker 3: The least you can do when you're making animated anything
Speaker 3: is ensure that you can make a baby version of
Speaker 3: your character. That's cute. That's the Muppet baby law. Like,
Speaker 3: it's not that hard. I don't think that it would
Speaker 3: have been impossible to make a cute Shrek baby or
Speaker 3: a cute The fact that the Donkey dragon babies also
Speaker 3: look like shit scary. That's a slam dunk. That's so cute.
Speaker 3: But they fuck it up, they fake time it up.
Speaker 2: I don't know what.
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're doing, but I know what
Speaker 3: they aren't doing.
Speaker 2: Uh. We see Shrek and Fiona. Of course Donkey and
Speaker 2: Puss and Boots are also there. But the monotony and
Speaker 2: repetitiveness of life is really getting to Shrek. Also, people
Speaker 2: aren't scared of Ogres the way they used to be.
Speaker 2: They're not scared of Shrek anymore, which is abundantly clear
Speaker 2: when they go too far far away for Shrek and
Speaker 2: Fiona's kids birthday party.
Speaker 3: There's a lot to be said about this whole, like
Speaker 3: Shrek is fatigued of being a parent, while we're led
Speaker 3: to believe Fiona it just comes naturally to her. We'll
Speaker 3: talk about that. Yeah, but can I just say the
Speaker 3: little kid who says dude, they roar, uh huh. I
Speaker 3: was laughing.
Speaker 2: See, I hated him.
Speaker 3: Every time he said it, I was laughing.
Speaker 2: I hate Wow.
Speaker 3: That was the one laugh this movie got out of me.
Speaker 3: And then when Shrek roars he says, I love you daddy,
Speaker 3: I was laughing.
Speaker 2: I think this movie got zero laughs out of me.
Speaker 2: Every joke Wow falls flat on its face.
Speaker 3: It's ivan. The movie sucks ass, but I liked with
Speaker 3: the kids. I love your daddy, yuck. Fair enough, fair enough.
Speaker 3: I only have an undergrad so yeah, it's just I
Speaker 3: have simple taste.
Speaker 2: It's okay, It's okay. So anyway, the party goes horribly
Speaker 2: wrong and no one is taking Shrek seriously, and he's like, ugh,
Speaker 2: I wish things would just go back to the way
Speaker 2: they were when I could do everything I wanted, whenever
Speaker 2: I wanted. And Fiona is like, okay, ungrateful much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you ungrateful piece of shit? You have every like
Speaker 3: and then she like lists out everything that's going well
Speaker 3: with his life. I'm like, damn, I'm jealous of Shrek.
Speaker 3: He really does have it all.
Speaker 2: He's he's got a lot that you would think he
Speaker 2: would be grateful for, but he's not. And so they
Speaker 2: both storm off in different directions. And then who does
Speaker 2: Shrek bump into? Who had overheard this whole conversation. It's
Speaker 2: Rumpel still skined, and he's like and.
Speaker 3: His big old goose. Which did you grow up with
Speaker 3: the story of rumpel Stiltskin. I don't know what the
Speaker 3: fuck his whole deal is.
Speaker 2: I do, yes, I did grow up with that story.
Speaker 2: I don't remember him having a goose, but I do
Speaker 2: know this story, all.
Speaker 3: Right, I'll take it to Google. Does Rumpel stelt skin?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: I guess he was a character on Once upon a Time.
Speaker 3: This is the point where someone in our is like,
Speaker 3: someone hits our Apple podcast reviews are like, Jamie didn't
Speaker 3: do enough research to even know if rumpel Stiltskin has
Speaker 3: canonically has a goose. I'm not seeing goose. I'm not
Speaker 3: seeing goose. I am seeing a page for Fifi the
Speaker 3: Goose on Wiki Shrek.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it seems like it's only canon to Shrek.
Speaker 3: Lore, a Shrek innovation. Yeah wow.
Speaker 2: Also, we did this last time too for Shrek the Third,
Speaker 2: but we still haven't said the word Shrekian yet.
Speaker 3: I mean give it time.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, it'll come up organically, right, It's okay.
Speaker 2: So Rumpelstiltskin is like, hey, Shrek, I will make a
Speaker 2: deal with you that will let you be the ogre
Speaker 2: that you used to be, you know, like feared. You
Speaker 2: can do that for a day in exchange for just
Speaker 2: any other day in your life. So Shrek would just
Speaker 2: have to like give up a day from his past,
Speaker 2: and it could be like a day when he was
Speaker 2: a baby that he wouldn't even remember. So he's like,
Speaker 2: sounds like a great deal to me. So Shrek signs
Speaker 2: this contract with Rumpelstiltskin, and as soon as he does,
Speaker 2: he is transported to this reality where sure enough everyone
Speaker 2: fears him, and Shrek is loving it at first, but
Speaker 2: then he goes to his swamp, but it's all dried
Speaker 2: up and abandoned, and he's like, what's going on? What's
Speaker 2: happening here? Then he is attacked and captured by a
Speaker 2: group of witches and the next Shrek knows he's in
Speaker 2: a carriage that's being pulled by Donkey, but Donkey does
Speaker 2: not recognize him. And this is where you start to
Speaker 2: realize that this movie and It's a Wonderful Life have
Speaker 2: basically the same plot.
Speaker 3: YEP, because it's like, why is this movie coming out
Speaker 3: in May? I honestly feel like if this movie was
Speaker 3: just like more transparent about what it's obviously doing, I
Speaker 3: just released it as like cause there were Shrek Christmas specials, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I feel like I'd be less annoyed with it if
Speaker 3: they just were like, this is like, it's a wonderful Shrek.
Speaker 3: You're like, sure, fine, I don't know why I would
Speaker 3: be less I like, but it's trying to like pass
Speaker 3: itself off as I don't know, I just like just
Speaker 3: say it's a wonderful Shrek or.
Speaker 2: It's a Shrekian life. It's true, and there you go.
Speaker 3: It's a shreky in text, it is everything about.
Speaker 2: That anyway, Shrek is in this alternate reality where he
Speaker 2: never met Donkey, where far far Away is in shambles,
Speaker 2: and they.
Speaker 3: Also imply that if Shrek didn't break this stigma against Ogres,
Speaker 3: that the Ogres would be extremely oppressed. Like without Shrek,
Speaker 3: the ogres are like a severe underclass in society to
Speaker 3: the point where they have to revolt. I'm just like,
Speaker 3: I just don't give Shrek that much credit, no right,
Speaker 3: And I think that that's fine, you know, like you
Speaker 3: but it's like he's one guy, you know, he's one
Speaker 3: unremarkable guy. That's kind of his whole thing. Yeah, what right? Anyways,
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 2: Anyway, all these things are different and we'll come to
Speaker 2: find out more soon. But the witches who are rumbel
Speaker 2: Stiltskin's minions, okay.
Speaker 3: Okay, they're trying trying to be but it's too late.
Speaker 3: It's too late.
Speaker 2: So they take Shrek to Rumbelstiltskin's palace and he is
Speaker 2: delighted to see Shrek because he's the one who made
Speaker 2: this all possible. Because the day that Rumpelstiltskin took from
Speaker 2: Shrek was the day that he was born, which means
Speaker 2: Shrek never even existed, which means he never rescued or
Speaker 2: even met Fiona. It means that when this day comes
Speaker 2: to an end, Shrek will cease to exist.
Speaker 3: And he'll like explode into light. Which seemed so dramatic.
Speaker 2: My stakes are high.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I and this is you know, spoiler alert for
Speaker 3: this eighty minute movie. This episode will be longer than
Speaker 3: the movie. But I think that it was quite bold
Speaker 3: in a living in twenty twenty four. Now, let's say,
Speaker 3: in a world where all children's movies are too cowardly
Speaker 3: to murder their protagonist in the fourth installment, I think
Speaker 3: it's shocked. I think it is rather shocking that we
Speaker 3: do see Shrek fully die. I mean only for like
Speaker 3: two minutes, but you're still damn they killed Shrek. I
Speaker 3: killed his ass, they got his ass. Loved that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyway, Shrek never existing also means that Rumpel's
Speaker 2: Stiltskin was able to seize control of Far Far Away,
Speaker 2: which is why he wanted this whole thing to happen,
Speaker 2: which is why he made this deal with Shrek, etc.
Speaker 2: So Rumpel Stiltskin finally has what he wants, so Shrek
Speaker 2: grabs Donkey and they escape from the palace. Shrek gets
Speaker 2: Donkey to trust him, and then Donkey tells him about
Speaker 2: the secret exit clause to the contract that Shrek had signed,
Speaker 2: and the way to render this contract null and void
Speaker 2: is for Shrek to have true Love's kiss and then
Speaker 2: we're like, okay, wait a minute, exit clause Santa Claus three,
Speaker 2: the escape clause.
Speaker 3: This is a Christmas movie. I kept writing that down
Speaker 3: like another Christmas thing. There's a Santa Claus in the
Speaker 3: Just why did this movie come out in May?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Not sure?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, So Shrek is like, okay, I have to go
Speaker 2: find Truelove's kiss with Fiona. He realizes that if he
Speaker 2: never rescued her from the dragon guarded tower, she must
Speaker 2: still be there. But when he goes to the tower,
Speaker 2: she's not there. So he's like, okay, well, if I
Speaker 2: didn't save her, then who did?
Speaker 3: Because he cannot conceive of a world in which Fiona
Speaker 3: could escape the tower on her own.
Speaker 2: Well, neither could the first Shrek movie, So I know
Speaker 2: he's a flaw. He's okay. So Shrek and Donkey continue
Speaker 2: their search for Fiona, and they stumble upon an Ogre community.
Speaker 2: There this resistance group who is fire against Rumpelstiltskin and
Speaker 2: his oppressive regime, and their leader is Fiona.
Speaker 3: Ooh, and it's a great reveal shot. It is, yes
Speaker 3: and really brings out I'm certain we've talked about this
Speaker 3: in past episodes. Really brings out how weak Cameron Diaz's
Speaker 3: voice acting is, because we get this amazing reveal of
Speaker 3: Fiona and then Cameron Dia like, I love Camera Diaz,
Speaker 3: but like she's not a very strong voice actor and
Speaker 3: doesn't improve of her time, and so you get like
Speaker 3: this incredibly animated like Fiona's hair is whipping around, she's
Speaker 3: wearing this warrior off it, and then she's like, okay, guys,
Speaker 3: let's okay, everyone, time to go into battle. And you're like, yea, yay.
Speaker 2: I've always thought that Cameron Diaz was not well cast.
Speaker 3: It's as roll right, which is challenging because it's like,
Speaker 3: I don't it's in that way inadvertently because of how
Speaker 3: these movies are structured. You were coming down on basically
Speaker 3: the only woman who's meaningfully in the movie. But uh,
Speaker 3: but also we've been shielding her for years. I just
Speaker 3: have to say, how I feel that's fair. Okay, guys,
Speaker 3: let's go into battle. You're like, oh my god, oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 2: Anyway, so we get this revealed that Fiona is the
Speaker 2: leader of this revolution, and of course she does not
Speaker 2: know Shrek because they have never met in this alternate reality.
Speaker 2: So Shrek tries to woo Fiona, but she's too busy
Speaker 2: planning an attack on rumpel Stiltskin and his witches that night. Also,
Speaker 2: we learn that Puss and Boots is her pet cat,
Speaker 2: although he's not the you know, fierce assassin we know
Speaker 2: him to be anymore. He's a quote unquote lazy house cat.
Speaker 2: And we'll talk more about the implications and choices that
Speaker 2: were made with this character. Anyway, So Shrek is trying
Speaker 2: to win Fiona over, and so he goes to her
Speaker 2: and they start this kind of like play fighting thing
Speaker 2: and they're vibing, but still no kiss. Meanwhile, Rumpelstiltskin wants
Speaker 2: to find Shrek to prevent him from kissing Fiona because
Speaker 2: he doesn't want this contract to be nullified because it
Speaker 2: would mean the end of his empire. So he hires
Speaker 2: a bounty hunter to find Shrek, who turns out to
Speaker 2: be the Pied Piper. And this is when I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: why would you interro just have Puss in Boots, Yeah,
Speaker 2: be the assassin that gets hired, bring that thing back
Speaker 2: in that makes more sense, And then it's baffling. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it would be maybe too similar to the plot of
Speaker 2: Shrek too. But that's a callback that would make sense
Speaker 2: where then Shrek would have to like, you know, do
Speaker 2: something similar to like get Pussing Boots on his side
Speaker 2: and just like why why why is Pied Piper here?
Speaker 2: Like worst I did fill in minion I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: I didn't, especially in a year where we're being introduced
Speaker 3: to the minions and Shrek's bringing who to the tape
Speaker 3: like no wonder, no wonder you were dethroned king, No,
Speaker 3: but I agree with you. I hadn't thought of it.
Speaker 3: That's that's a really smart fix for that too, And
Speaker 3: a far more logical use of puss in Boots character
Speaker 3: because he really is like he's used as a fat
Speaker 3: shaming site gag basically, and then he kind of like
Speaker 3: doesn't do anything the whole movie. He uterly does nothing
Speaker 3: to the point where it's like egregious and at one
Speaker 3: point I left because they're just trying to justify his presence,
Speaker 3: so which is like, also, if you're paying Antonio banderis,
Speaker 3: please use him like it's wired either way. But there's
Speaker 3: like at one point where Shrek and Fiona spoiler like
Speaker 3: they have to fall bug in love, and there's a
Speaker 3: point where they're like they're vibing, and then it just
Speaker 3: cuts to Puss and Boots and he's like wow, You're like,
Speaker 3: why is he here? He's just like wow.
Speaker 2: Sense anyway, So the assassin for some reason or the
Speaker 2: bounty hunter is the Pied Piper, and then when the
Speaker 2: Ogres launched their attack against rumpel Stiltskin, it's actually a
Speaker 2: trap laid by the Pied Piper, and then he plays
Speaker 2: his flute and it like forces them to dance, and
Speaker 2: that's how he bounty hunts them question marks. Exhausting, but
Speaker 2: Shrek and Fiona manage to get away m hmm. So
Speaker 2: they're like on the run. And also he's trying to
Speaker 2: prove to her that he is her true love and
Speaker 2: that he knows a bunch of stuff about her.
Speaker 3: Including well and he's also like, what if I forcibly
Speaker 3: kissed you with that convinced you huh?
Speaker 2: He does that many many times. It's disgusting. But he's like, look,
Speaker 2: I know all this stuff about you, including your curse
Speaker 2: where you're human during the day, and he's like, so
Speaker 2: kiss me, and she does basically just to I think,
Speaker 2: get him to shut up and leave her alone. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the kiss doesn't change anything because.
Speaker 3: Because why would it. She's a revolution. Yeah, I just
Speaker 3: hate that, Like, I mean it's complicated to the extent
Speaker 3: that you know, like without Shrek's presence in this world, right,
Speaker 3: Like the Shreks are oppressed. That's bad. However, it's also
Speaker 3: presented that it's equally bad that Fiona is the leader
Speaker 3: of a revolution, which is not bad. That's like a
Speaker 3: fun like it's it's so weird how Fiona is characterized
Speaker 3: over the years, where it's like she it just feels
Speaker 3: like antiquated, even for the two thousands to be like, well,
Speaker 3: she would be much happier if she was just the
Speaker 3: mother of newborn triplets than if she were the you know,
Speaker 3: like warrior goddess of the Shreks, right, I don't I
Speaker 3: feel like we can split the difference there a little
Speaker 3: or not, you know.
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's the same kind of like empty
Speaker 2: feminism that we've seen throughout the entire franchise, where like
Speaker 2: there will be moments where like Fiona gets one little
Speaker 2: scene where she does something that vaguely seems empowering, but
Speaker 2: when you actually look at it closely, it's a very
Speaker 2: hollow gesture or it has weird implications. The same thing's
Speaker 2: happening here.
Speaker 3: The same thing's happening, and she.
Speaker 2: At this time does not love Shrek, so when she
Speaker 2: kisses him, it doesn't break the contract with ruppel Stiltskin.
Speaker 3: And I thought, I because I of course I didn't
Speaker 3: remember what happened in this movie, fully because I was
Speaker 3: busy doing what pegot. But like I sort of was like,
Speaker 3: far be it for me to think this Shrek. I
Speaker 3: feel like this happens in every Shrek movie, where it's
Speaker 3: like they have an opportunity to do something cool and
Speaker 3: interesting and then they're like, nah, we're not gonna, We're
Speaker 3: not gonna. You're like, okay, sorry, never mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah they don't. Sorry for having any expectations.
Speaker 3: Go God, sorry for thinking that the franchise could grow.
Speaker 2: Ugh yeah right anyway, So rumpel Stiltskin, desperate to stop Shrek,
Speaker 2: and Fiona puts out a call basically saying that whoever
Speaker 2: brings them in rumpel Stiltskin will grant them any wish
Speaker 2: they desire. So Shrek realizes he can use this to
Speaker 2: his advantage, and he turns himself in in exchange for
Speaker 2: freeing all of the ogres that the Pied Piper had captured,
Speaker 2: except rumpel Stiltskin refuses to release Fiona since she's only
Speaker 2: half ogre. So now she and Shrek are captured together
Speaker 2: and Rumpelstiltskin unleashes dragon on them, but they work together
Speaker 2: to best the dragon and defeat Rumpel still skin, but.
Speaker 3: Then Shrek dies so abrupt too.
Speaker 2: Yes, because it's dawn, which means Shrek's time is up,
Speaker 2: and he starts to fade away, which I.
Speaker 3: Kind of forgot was gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and she kisses him, but he disappears, but
Speaker 2: just kidding. The kiss worked, and this alternate reality vanishes.
Speaker 2: We're transported back to Shrek's children's birthday party and Shrek
Speaker 2: is like, wow, Fiona, I love you, babe. I always
Speaker 2: thought it was me who rescued you from the dragons Keep,
Speaker 2: but really it was you who rescued me the enda
Speaker 2: and you're just like and then a smash Mouth cover starts.
Speaker 3: Weezer, that's Weezer. It's Weezer covering smash Mouth covering the monkeys.
Speaker 3: And at this point we're like, we got to retire
Speaker 3: Shrek for fifteen years. He's got go in the vault.
Speaker 2: I think that they did talk about inception a song
Speaker 2: within a song within a song.
Speaker 3: Wa wha, all right, let's take a break, will help
Speaker 3: her be right back? All right, and we're back.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: As with all things Shrekian, uh, this movie did suck,
Speaker 3: But I do think that there is a fair amount
Speaker 3: to talk about, especially in regards to I just like
Speaker 3: if in Shrek five we could like get an arc
Speaker 3: for Fiona, that's like we're saying on par with Shrek
Speaker 3: two and let's say better because we have the benefit
Speaker 3: of fifteen years, right, But Shrek four sucks for fiot.
Speaker 3: It's so weird because it and speaking to the empty feminism,
Speaker 3: which I feel like is yeah, it's very very prevalent
Speaker 3: and again like best done in the earlier installments, not
Speaker 3: the later ones, which is depressing. But like the message
Speaker 3: of this movie for women is bad as you, but
Speaker 3: we see a lot of cool stuff, which is weird.
Speaker 3: I feel like that there is like a sort of
Speaker 3: game of forty chess being played because you get to
Speaker 3: see Fiona in a position of power where she's respected
Speaker 3: and hyper competent, and like, I think the sequences where
Speaker 3: she's fighting and like leading is really cool. There is
Speaker 3: sort of I know that there's Jane Lynch's character is
Speaker 3: a woman coded Shrek, but outside of that, it appears
Speaker 3: that it's kind of a Smurfette situation like most of
Speaker 3: the Shrek's overwhelmingly male, which is Minyon coded. I will say, true,
Speaker 3: but obviously not as effective if John Hamm is actually
Speaker 3: in Minion's one, so he's kind of double dipping when
Speaker 3: you think about it. And also, wait is he Yeah,
Speaker 3: he plays Sandra Bulls groovy husband in Minions and he's
Speaker 3: Minions one, not Despicable Me one, not Despicable Me. We're
Speaker 3: talking this spinoff franchise, I see the real moneymaker.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen Minions one all the way through.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, we should watch it on Christmas?
Speaker 2: Okay, we should cover it on the podcast.
Speaker 3: I would love to. I mean, I've seen it so
Speaker 3: many times, and not to mention Rise of Group, like,
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: I saw that one in the theaters and.
Speaker 3: It's so cute. I love it. Yeah. Twenty tway four,
Speaker 3: it's a Minions year, thank god. Twenty twenty three were
Speaker 3: we were panting, starving, like what was gonna happen to us?
Speaker 3: Thankfully we're back. But but yeah, I mean, and good
Speaker 3: for John hann for sensing which way the wind was blowing.
Speaker 3: But in any case, I don't know, like Fiona is
Speaker 3: in a position of huge power. We find out that
Speaker 3: she has liberated herself from the tower, which I think
Speaker 3: is cool and like, because this is all established, I
Speaker 3: almost wished at the end of Shrek four, instead of
Speaker 3: Shrek being pulled back to his normal reality where we've
Speaker 3: seen Fiona for two movies, now be pushed into these
Speaker 3: traditional roles, which, as we say, oh it like, we're
Speaker 3: not saying that these are bad roles to be in
Speaker 3: to want to be married or to be a parent,
Speaker 3: but they are stereotypical roles that are you know whatever,
Speaker 3: you know what we're talking about. That's all we see
Speaker 3: Fiona do in these movies anymore. And I was really
Speaker 3: hoping that they went to some like third location where
Speaker 3: there could be some like I think that would have
Speaker 3: been cool, where they like went to an alternate reality
Speaker 3: where Fiona could have access to both of these, where
Speaker 3: she could be a warrior, because she's always been a
Speaker 3: really like fighty character since the first movie. She's been
Speaker 3: a good fighter and like a world where she could
Speaker 3: you know, have both of these. I feel like that
Speaker 3: wouldn't be out of the question in this world. But
Speaker 3: instead Shrek is just sent back to the world where
Speaker 3: we've seen Fiona turned into a very like unchallenging wife
Speaker 3: and mother character, and Shrek is just like, Wow, I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful that you're like this, and you're like.
Speaker 2: Ugh, right, no, yeah, no. This movie can't imagine a
Speaker 2: world and suggests that like, if you are, you know,
Speaker 2: a warrior and the leader of a revolution, you would
Speaker 2: not also be a parent like that. It's like you're
Speaker 2: one or the other. And if you are a parent,
Speaker 2: then you have to live this like hyper domesticated life
Speaker 2: and that goes for Fiona and Shrek, and that's why
Speaker 2: he tries to like escape. So, like I said, I
Speaker 2: went back and listened to our Shrek the third episode
Speaker 2: and a big criticism, thank you. A big criticism we
Speaker 2: had about that movie was that it reinforces a gendered
Speaker 2: trope of like men and being very reluctant to become
Speaker 2: parents and women being hyper enthusiastic about becoming a parent.
Speaker 2: In this movie, we're already kind of touched on this,
Speaker 2: but it does something similar in the sense that we
Speaker 2: see Shrek growing increasingly bored, frustrated, disillusioned with domestic life
Speaker 2: of like, you know, taking care of his three babies.
Speaker 2: He's tired of the monotony of it. But we do
Speaker 2: not see Fiona feeling this way, which reinforces a similar
Speaker 2: gendered trope of like, oh, well, women don't mind doing
Speaker 2: the same domestic tasks over and over. Women don't mind
Speaker 2: the monotony that might accompany that. Right, She's happily doing it,
Speaker 2: and she's never getting frustrated or bored because women just
Speaker 2: inherently love that kind of work. But men, well, of
Speaker 2: course they're going to get bored and yearn for something
Speaker 2: more exciting. They're going to yearn for their days when
Speaker 2: they were a bachelor and they weren't, you know, like
Speaker 2: weighed down by this ball and chain. And of course
Speaker 2: their masculinity will feel threatened now that they have to
Speaker 2: stay at home and do domestic tasks and take care
Speaker 2: of a family.
Speaker 3: Which is like exacerbated by the fact that the movie
Speaker 3: doesn't even bother to like add the trophy layer to
Speaker 3: make it seem like Shrek has a job, like he
Speaker 3: does it, he does it. They're both stay at home parents,
Speaker 3: but like and and also it's like I think that
Speaker 3: these are easy as I know that we've talked about
Speaker 3: this in others Trek installments. There's easy small effixes that
Speaker 3: allow Fiona to participate more fully in the plot. If
Speaker 3: they're both burned out as new parents, that totally changes
Speaker 3: the dynamic of that because you're like, yeah, parents of
Speaker 3: newborn triplets that are being like surveilled by the far
Speaker 3: far away paparazzi or whatever. That would be exhausting for
Speaker 3: both of them, But she is shielded by mother powers
Speaker 3: that like don't just add on these tropes but like
Speaker 3: fundamentally exclude her from the plot. Like there's maybe I
Speaker 3: mean it was still suck because it's like Shrek four,
Speaker 3: but like there's a version of this where they could
Speaker 3: go through this journey together and see the alternate version
Speaker 3: of reality of like what if both of them didn't
Speaker 3: exist and if Fiona doesn't exist. Honestly, I'm more inclined
Speaker 3: to believe that Ogres would be more oppressed versus Shrek
Speaker 3: because she is an Ogre who is a princess. Like
Speaker 3: that actually makes like, yeah, talking it out now, that
Speaker 3: makes a lot more sense that like Fiona has far
Speaker 3: more to do with like the you know, ogres are
Speaker 3: scary stigma being removed from that community than Shrek does
Speaker 3: because she came out as an ogre and everyone still
Speaker 3: loved her.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, hello, end of Shrek one, it.
Speaker 3: Was like an earth shattering moment.
Speaker 2: It changed the world. Yeah, right, there's that. So there's
Speaker 2: a bunch of different things going on with Shrek one.
Speaker 2: He's frustrated with the monotony of domestic life. He's also ungrateful,
Speaker 2: you know, despite having, as Fiona points out, three beautiful children,
Speaker 2: a wife, a wife who loves him, friends who adore him.
Speaker 2: He's just acting very ungrateful and unappreciative of it. And
Speaker 2: then on top of that, he doesn't like that people
Speaker 2: are no longer afraid of him, and he wants to
Speaker 2: go back to the good old days where people were
Speaker 2: afraid of ogres, when the world made sense. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: maga vibe yikes.
Speaker 3: Maga, maga before maga. Yeah, I mean it's super weird,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, in the Shrek world. I'll let
Speaker 3: that slide where it's like, Okay, he misses what he
Speaker 3: was a scary oak, but I feel like that's just telegraphic,
Speaker 3: like I miss my bachelor days like you were saying earlier.
Speaker 3: But it's also like let Fiona in on that, that's
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Yeah, he doesn't bother to openly communicate
Speaker 3: any of these frustrations or these feelings with Fiona. He
Speaker 3: doesn't say anything like, Hey, I've been overwhelmed, I've been frustrated.
Speaker 3: Here are my needs that aren't being met? Like can
Speaker 3: we work on this together to like try to figure
Speaker 3: out a solution. And also, hey, Fiona, how are you feeling?
Speaker 3: Is any of this getting to you? Like they don't
Speaker 3: have any conversation like that, and Shrek is like famously
Speaker 3: bad at being inter relent, but it's like, why can't
Speaker 3: we just let his character grow a little because it
Speaker 3: gets exhausting and you would I mean, it's been nine
Speaker 3: years Shrek and again to come to Fiona's defense here,
Speaker 3: like it makes far more sense for her to be
Speaker 3: like shaken by this shift because she has you know,
Speaker 3: I forget how much time is canonically passed and Shrek won,
Speaker 3: but like she has gone through far more big changes
Speaker 3: in her life in the last several Shrek years than Shrek.
Speaker 3: She was still she's still got tower PTSD. She and
Speaker 3: then she's like coming out as an ogre, which is
Speaker 3: a huge deal in this world, right, the whole Shrek
Speaker 3: two of it all. Like she is married now, she's
Speaker 3: living in a swamp. She's had three kids. Like there
Speaker 3: it again, her life has changed more and unfortunate not
Speaker 3: to be like I feel like I'm starting to sound
Speaker 3: like a royalist, but like her just because of who
Speaker 3: she is. Unfortunately, she's like Prince she I'll say it.
Speaker 3: She's the Princess Da far far away. She's the people's princess.
Speaker 3: And I feel like it's disrespectful for Shrek Prince Charles
Speaker 3: over here, not exactly, not exact and exact one to one,
Speaker 3: but he's a flop. He's not the most interesting character.
Speaker 3: It's like disrespectful to even have Fiona voice by Cameron Diaz.
Speaker 3: I mean, but it's too late. It's twenty three years
Speaker 3: too late to fix that. So let's just give her something.
Speaker 3: Let's give her something and the kids look like shit.
Speaker 2: Come on, I didn't we know that these animators can
Speaker 2: make something look cute because uh put some boots with
Speaker 2: his big eyes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah, it felt very yeah,
Speaker 3: like it something fat. I mean, I guess you can't
Speaker 3: like overestimate the amount of cynicism that goes into a
Speaker 3: franchise like this, except for Dispicable to me, which is
Speaker 3: you know, pure. They would never do anything for me
Speaker 3: merchandising purvises, holding my vampire minion who watches me while
Speaker 3: I create content.
Speaker 4: Okay, but but seriously, you guys, no, I feel like
Speaker 4: they they It's almost like advantageous for them to have
Speaker 4: these shots and sequences of Fiona as a warrior because
Speaker 4: of it, and then they can put it in the
Speaker 4: trailer and be like, oh, se Fiona.
Speaker 3: But then the status quo is always re established, as
Speaker 3: it is with in a time and time again. And
Speaker 3: then also, I mean all those yucky things that we
Speaker 3: touched on during the recap where Shrek is so convinced
Speaker 3: that like all he has to do is give her
Speaker 3: a kiss, he doesn't have to grow as a person,
Speaker 3: which he I would say, arguably doesn't in this movie
Speaker 3: really at all. Right, Okay, well, I guess he learns
Speaker 3: to be grateful for his wife, but like does he
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: See, That's what I was trying to figure out. So
Speaker 2: instead of him, you know, trying to have an open
Speaker 2: and honest conversation about his feelings with Fiona. Instead, he
Speaker 2: storms off and then makes a deal with the first
Speaker 2: sleazy guy he finds, which ends up having these dire consequences.
Speaker 2: So the rest of the plot is him having to
Speaker 2: like fix this situation, and the lesson he ends up
Speaker 2: quote unquote learning is, oh, I didn't know what I
Speaker 2: had until it was gone, and I should learn to
Speaker 2: appreciate the love I share with my family and friends.
Speaker 2: And sure that's a valid lesson to learn, but I'm
Speaker 2: trying to, Like, I guess they just have mixed feelings
Speaker 2: about stories like this where a man has to learn
Speaker 2: emotional intelligence or a man you know, has to have
Speaker 2: this emotional redemption arc because on one hand, I'm very
Speaker 2: for men learning and growing emotionally, but sure women are
Speaker 2: rarely given arcs like this in stories because women are
Speaker 2: expected to already have this emotional intelligence because of a
Speaker 2: you know, gendered expectation that women are nurturing and tuned
Speaker 2: into their feelings and things like that, whereas men it's
Speaker 2: just like, well, of course they're gonna start out being
Speaker 2: you know, not very emotionally intelligent and they have to
Speaker 2: learn these things, and they kind of barely learn them,
Speaker 2: and it takes this whole epic saga for them to
Speaker 2: figure these things out. And then I'm right, does he
Speaker 2: even learn it? Because at the end he doesn't apologize
Speaker 2: to Fiona when he's like back at the party. He
Speaker 2: doesn't like say, wow, I've been acting horribly. He just
Speaker 2: says like, it was actually you who rescued me, which
Speaker 2: is I feel like what people say to the like
Speaker 2: the pets that they adopt.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I was like you talk her to her
Speaker 3: like she's a damn dog, like oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then yeah, he doesn't apologize and say like, hey, sorry
Speaker 2: for being an ungrateful little shit. He's just like you
Speaker 2: rescued me.
Speaker 3: And I just feel like.
Speaker 2: It's very a very like oversimplified version.
Speaker 3: It's a freaking mess. It's a freaking mess. It's a disaster,
Speaker 3: it's a catastrophe. It stinks. It's gotta go, like.
Speaker 2: Right, And then with Fiona like okay, yes, this is
Speaker 2: an alternate reality where Shrek never saved her, so she
Speaker 2: saved herself from the dragon guarded tower, which again is
Speaker 2: like something that the movie Shrek won couldn't even conceive.
Speaker 3: Of and shocking.
Speaker 2: Why don't we get a flashback of like her saving
Speaker 2: herself showing how she did that. Maybe it informs why
Speaker 2: she becomes such an effective leader of a revolution. You know,
Speaker 2: there's like again, it's just like this empty well of
Speaker 2: course she's the leader. Now why well you don't have
Speaker 2: to know about that. It just happened. It just glasses
Speaker 2: over everything.
Speaker 3: It stinks. It stinks. Yeah, I mean I totally agree.
Speaker 3: Where it's like the things that this movie makes narrative
Speaker 3: space for acting as if it only has eighty minutes
Speaker 3: to exist or it'll die, Like it's yeah, and this,
Speaker 3: And I know we've talked about this before, but I
Speaker 3: was reminded of it again in this installment of Shrek.
Speaker 3: That Fiona and Dragon, that is the dragon that guarded
Speaker 3: her tower for over a decade. And why do these
Speaker 3: two characters not have a relationship at all? Like it
Speaker 3: could even be contentious, it would make sense, but it's
Speaker 3: so weird, like because they introduce Dragon in the alternate
Speaker 3: reality at the end, but it's only so that Donkey
Speaker 3: and Dragon can fall in love again. But the way
Speaker 3: that it's like these are the two characters of the
Speaker 3: four of the two married couples, Fiona and Dragon have
Speaker 3: known each other for the longest, but they have no relationship.
Speaker 3: They act like, oh, our husbands are friends, so I
Speaker 3: guess we hang out. I'm like, this dragon was going
Speaker 3: to kill you for ten years, like, how do you
Speaker 3: have no feelings on? Like? And I think that that
Speaker 3: could also it would. It feels very Shrekian there it is.
Speaker 3: It feels very Shrekian to put two characters that were
Speaker 3: like at severe odds. They'd be like, oh, we get
Speaker 3: Martini is now we hang out blah blah blah, like
Speaker 3: whatever it is established some sort of relationship like why,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like the franchise thinks so
Speaker 3: little of the two women. And also Dragon can't talk great.
Speaker 3: But the two women who you see most frequently, which
Speaker 3: are Fiona and Dragon, they have the longest relationship and
Speaker 3: they're like, eh, no one cares, well, not true, we care.
Speaker 2: Also, why can't drag I mean basically every other dragon tall.
Speaker 2: We got Puss and Boots. He's talking. We got the
Speaker 2: three little pigs, they're always talking. We got the wolf.
Speaker 2: The wolf is talking. We got a sentient gingerbread man
Speaker 2: who gets eaten because of the thing we were hinting
Speaker 2: at as far as like Puss and Boots, he's now
Speaker 2: a fat character, and the movie takes every opportunity to
Speaker 2: make very like fat shamy jokes, which is.
Speaker 3: Very in step with what the franchise is always in,
Speaker 3: as well as the no homo like vampire oh ye
Speaker 3: kissy joke at the like it's all just like bluff
Speaker 3: and you already suggested a far better utility of that carriac.
Speaker 2: Of Puss and Boots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of pus, Pus, there's so many better uses of Puss.
Speaker 2: Here's how you use puss.
Speaker 3: I have a master's degree, and I know how to
Speaker 3: use Puss in this movie.
Speaker 2: And well, since you mentioned that like queer phobic vampire thing,
Speaker 2: that's just like a fleeting moment in a quick scene
Speaker 2: where the King and Queen are riding their carriage through
Speaker 2: what seems to be coded as like a medieval trailer park,
Speaker 2: and all of the people there are made to seem
Speaker 2: like weird and scary, and it's just like this a
Speaker 2: very obviously like classist like, yeah, oh, if you live
Speaker 2: in a trailer park, you're a freaking weirdo.
Speaker 3: Which is weird because like this movie is all all
Speaker 3: over the map with that too, because the Shreks are
Speaker 3: presented as an underclass that are like staging a revolution
Speaker 3: and are to be rooted for this Like this movie
Speaker 3: can't even decide how they feel about Green, Like they
Speaker 3: can't even decide what they feel about Green, because we
Speaker 3: also have true the witches as the they work for
Speaker 3: rumbel stilts Can. Again, I don't know, rumpel stilts Can
Speaker 3: Lore please come for me. I guess, Like, God, I'm
Speaker 3: so tired, but like, I don't get I mean, And
Speaker 3: we've talked extensively on other episodes about a lot of
Speaker 3: the stereotyping that exists around witches. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: heavy stereotyping around older women and also a lot of
Speaker 3: antisemitic tropes that come up in the animation style, which
Speaker 3: is which I think is not challenged in this movie whatsoever,
Speaker 3: for sure, And even outside of that, you're just like,
Speaker 3: why do the witches work for rumpel stilt Skit Like
Speaker 3: it's really, I don't know, it's a mess.
Speaker 2: I don't know it they just the Shrek writers and
Speaker 2: director aka Mess. Movie was written by Josh Klausner and
Speaker 2: Darren Lemkey and directed by Mike Mitchell. Uh, they just
Speaker 2: kind of do whatever the hell they want.
Speaker 3: It's so funny because it was like directed by Mike Mitchell.
Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, I loved I love Doe Boys
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 5: Boys.
Speaker 3: Wow, Mitch, what a what a even even bigger multi
Speaker 3: hyphen it that we imagine different Mike Mitchell. But in
Speaker 3: my mind, Mitch directed Shrek Forever After. He also directed
Speaker 3: all of the other Mike Mitchell movies. Can I rattle
Speaker 3: them off?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 3: My buddy? Mitch also directed Sky High, Deuce, Bigelow, Mail, Chick,
Speaker 3: Alvin and the Chipmunks, chip Wrecked, whoa Trolls? Okay, He's
Speaker 3: killing it, Lego Movie two, and Kung Fu Panda four
Speaker 3: or so. Yeah, if you're a fan of the Dope Boys,
Speaker 3: guess what, there's more where that came from and it's
Speaker 3: four incredible.
Speaker 2: Hmmm. Do you have anything else that you want to
Speaker 2: talk about? Because I've pretty much come to the end
Speaker 2: of my notes.
Speaker 3: Let's see, let's see. Uh, well, I guess I just
Speaker 3: wanted to get back to Rumpelstiltskin and I think, just
Speaker 3: even from writing perspective, is a really really weak character,
Speaker 3: like a stinky character that felt like a retread of
Speaker 3: far Quad. For I was like, could they not get
Speaker 3: the original voice actor of far Quad back? Like, oh sorry,
Speaker 3: I put some respect on his name. I just thought,
Speaker 3: like a really weak villain. For the third and the fourth.
Speaker 2: Also has nothing to do with the Rumpelstiltskin narrative, which
Speaker 2: is all about like, I will give you whatever you
Speaker 2: want if you're able to guess my name, and if not,
Speaker 2: I'm going to steal all your babies away from you.
Speaker 2: That's the lore of Rumpelstiltskin. And then none of that
Speaker 2: appears except for like him making shady deals.
Speaker 3: I guess see the babies technically disappear. I guess it's
Speaker 3: a no. I mean that's me giving it too much credit.
Speaker 2: That's a stretch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I think it's weird that this movie
Speaker 3: ultimately comes down and Fiona would be like clearly establishes
Speaker 3: Fiona would be cooler if she hadn't met Shrek.
Speaker 2: True, I mean that is true, like.
Speaker 3: Objectively and also taking it like again, just there's so
Speaker 3: many more interesting ways for this movie to go because
Speaker 3: if we know now in twenty ten, something that seemed obvious, right,
Speaker 3: but like that Fiona eventually would have escaped the tower
Speaker 3: on her own. I think that that should send Shrek
Speaker 3: into more of a crisis than it does. Like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting. I had this written down as well,
Speaker 3: where it's like, if I I, as Shrek.
Speaker 2: Saw that Fiona would have h comma Shrek, unlike Ikmma
Speaker 2: tana Ikamma Frankenstein.
Speaker 3: Two of my favorite movies. If I Shrek found out
Speaker 3: that Fionda would have escaped the tower on her own
Speaker 3: and become a revolutionary leader if she had never met me,
Speaker 3: I would be like, hold on, maybe, like I would
Speaker 3: have the kind of crisis where it's like, wow, maybe
Speaker 3: I really don't matter, Like there's a whole like I mean,
Speaker 3: and I know that that's complicated by the fact that,
Speaker 3: for some reason, without Shrek, the Shreks are more marginalized
Speaker 3: then they would. They seem to be like exploited for
Speaker 3: like it seems like they're being used as slaves to
Speaker 3: Ruympel still looking too, which is a disaster.
Speaker 2: He seems to specifically target and capture Shreks and enslave them.
Speaker 2: I don't understand, but this is the first time we're
Speaker 2: even ever learning about other Shreks in this world because
Speaker 2: Aside from Fiona, there are no other Ogres until the
Speaker 2: fourth movie, and then suddenly there's a whole community of
Speaker 2: which begs the question where have these other Shreks been.
Speaker 3: Which is actually a really scary image to see. Like
Speaker 3: You're just like, oh, I feel like I'm having a nightmare.
Speaker 2: It's jarring.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just honestly, I don't think that this
Speaker 3: franchise is equipped to deal with the topic of slavery.
Speaker 3: I will bravely say that, And I don't think that
Speaker 3: they should have tried. I guess, like it's that plot
Speaker 3: point made me very uncomfortable. And also to suggest that
Speaker 3: without Shrek there would be many more Shreks, but they
Speaker 3: would be enslaved. You're like, I'd hate this. I hate
Speaker 3: every second of this, Like this is a really, really
Speaker 3: brutal tangle to put into this story that they are
Speaker 3: not able to write themselves out of. It's a disaster.
Speaker 3: That's bad. But then on the other hand, I did
Speaker 3: like how the Shreks as a community were characterized, where
Speaker 3: they were stage a revolution. They call Shrek a I
Speaker 3: think John Aham Shrek calls regular a comrade in arms.
Speaker 3: You're like, that's kind of fun. They're like preparing to
Speaker 3: take down their oppressors. It's kind of like, woahoo, this
Speaker 3: is cool. And you know, alternate reality, Fiona is very active.
Speaker 3: She is planning the revolution, right, Craig, I think it's
Speaker 3: Craig Robinson, Shrek has a chimney choga stand. You're like, wow,
Speaker 3: epic random Bacon Humor twenty ten whatever. But but like
Speaker 3: I I liked how like I just think again, it's
Speaker 3: interesting to establish like this canon of there's a whole
Speaker 3: Shrek community and they're essentially like revolutionaryas that are going
Speaker 3: to topple the overclass.
Speaker 2: And that feed to be confused with the ogre class.
Speaker 3: The ogre class topples the overclass. Whoa and this alternate
Speaker 3: university university sorry, this ALTI universe implies, in a way
Speaker 3: that is also under explored, that Fiona has abandoned the
Speaker 3: idea of monarchy like she in a way that she
Speaker 3: doesn't in the main franchise. She maintains a relationship with royalty.
Speaker 3: She maintains like she is like a badass in not
Speaker 3: to I feel like that's over used, but like she's
Speaker 3: really really cool in this altered because she like rejects
Speaker 3: the monarchy she becomes an underground revolutionary and uses what
Speaker 3: she knows about the monarchy to get the Ogres into
Speaker 3: the palace into like tap like it's all really really
Speaker 3: cool again and then if you like think it through,
Speaker 3: which you're not supposed to, right, this is like lobotomy
Speaker 3: brain filmmaking. But like that, Shrek is also totally fine
Speaker 3: meeting and connecting with this whole community of Ogres and
Speaker 3: just losing that why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know Shrek. Once he does learn that,
Speaker 2: like you know, what Fiona could have done or what
Speaker 2: she's capable of if he wasn't involved in her life,
Speaker 2: and you would think the thought would cross his mind,
Speaker 2: like wow, maybe I've been holding her back. So when
Speaker 2: he does show up again in like Shrek Prime reality,
Speaker 2: he needs to be like miss Shrek. I feel like
Speaker 2: he needs to be like, hey, babe, like let me
Speaker 2: help you see your full potential here You're like, you know,
Speaker 2: like is there anything else you want to be doing
Speaker 2: with your life? Like right, I don't know, it's just.
Speaker 3: Where at that point, Like but at this point, it's
Speaker 3: like it's not even clear at the end of the
Speaker 3: movie if he's ever going to tell her that this happened.
Speaker 2: Probably not, I would say, maybe he's not, which is
Speaker 2: so scary. It's like the end of what was that
Speaker 2: movie we recently covered, Ruby sparks yes, yes, or like
Speaker 2: at the end he's like, I'm not gonna tell her
Speaker 2: that I was freaking creep.
Speaker 3: You're like, this absolutely sucks. This stinks as truly.
Speaker 2: The last thing I wanted to touch on was something
Speaker 2: that comes up a few different times throughout the movie
Speaker 2: is a discussion of Fiona being quote only half Ogre,
Speaker 2: and then at one point Shrek says something like, well,
Speaker 2: you're not a real ogre. You know, you spent half
Speaker 2: of your life in a palace. And Fiona, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't want to necessarily, you know, judge her for
Speaker 2: how she responds to this, but it's something that I
Speaker 2: feel like you could equate with, like a person in
Speaker 2: the real world having a dual identity in some way,
Speaker 2: for example, people who are mixed race, or people who
Speaker 2: are the child of immigrants and have two or more
Speaker 2: cultures that are a part of their identity, or just
Speaker 2: you know, like anyone who's gotten criticized for you know,
Speaker 2: not being xyz enough, you know, when for example, again
Speaker 2: mixed race people are told, oh, you know, you're not
Speaker 2: black enough, or you're not Asian enough, or you know,
Speaker 2: whatever the case may be, basically being told like you're
Speaker 2: not one thing or the other, so you don't belong
Speaker 2: in either space. I think that would be an interesting
Speaker 2: Not that I think the Shrek movies are capable of
Speaker 2: exploring this any further, but it does get brought up.
Speaker 3: Well any any more than the Harry Potter universe was
Speaker 3: equipped to explore that through Hermion's character. True, I feel
Speaker 3: like you have a very similar I mean not to
Speaker 3: bring up Harry Potter, but like, I think it's a
Speaker 3: similar plot point brought up in the same era that
Speaker 3: also kind of like was always trying to start that
Speaker 3: but then never quite you know, did.
Speaker 2: Doesn't know how to actually like, yeah, have a character
Speaker 2: deal with this. Shrek says something like really cruel to her.
Speaker 2: He says, you're not a real Ogre. He's saying this
Speaker 2: to her as she is like an Ogre.
Speaker 3: Running the Ogre Revolution, and what are you talking about,
Speaker 3: you fucking asshole.
Speaker 2: I just it would have again, it would have been
Speaker 2: cool if that could have been explored more thoughtfully and thoroughly,
Speaker 2: and if we saw like how people saying that to
Speaker 2: her makes Fiona feel because like this is something that
Speaker 2: like Fiona would likely struggle with or deal with or
Speaker 2: you know, like have feelings about, but we barely see that.
Speaker 3: And also for her own husband to have such a
Speaker 3: callous way of speaking with her about it, for sure,
Speaker 3: which feels like a step back from what we hear
Speaker 3: in the first Shrek movie where he is like, that's
Speaker 3: part of why she falls for him is because he
Speaker 3: is accepting of who she is in all parts of
Speaker 3: who she is. But then like they have a couple
Speaker 3: of kids, and he's like, you're not a real ogre.
Speaker 3: I mean I think that, yeah, these I that it
Speaker 3: does seem like being mixed race is the clear implication
Speaker 3: that's being made through Fiona's character. But you're right, like
Speaker 3: it's I can see, you know, especially in a media
Speaker 3: property this broad that it could be you know, used
Speaker 3: for viewers to connect who are coming from a lot
Speaker 3: of different points of marginalization, and it just basically says
Speaker 3: like no, Shrek says you gotta pick a lane, and
Speaker 3: you're like, that doesn't make any fucking sense, And it
Speaker 3: also just like doesn't even make sense with who we
Speaker 3: know this character to be, which is why they had
Speaker 3: to retire him for fifteen years so he could really
Speaker 3: think about what he said. Yeah, another another big missed opportunity.
Speaker 3: The last thing I wanted to say.
Speaker 5: Is between Shrek the Third and Shrek Forever after another
Speaker 5: Shrek property came out in two thousand and eight and
Speaker 5: it was on Broadway.
Speaker 3: And it was called Shrek the Musical, right, and I
Speaker 3: am very intimately familiar with this musical. I didn't get
Speaker 3: to see it on Broadway, unfortunately, but I have seen
Speaker 3: several local productions of it. I've seen it seven times,
Speaker 3: oh my god. And I've also watched it a lot.
Speaker 3: There's a professional Broadway recording of it that exists on
Speaker 3: I don't know where it's currently streaming. Generally, with the
Speaker 3: other Shreks, it is really difficult to watch Broadway great.
Speaker 3: Brian Darcy James, who is a decorated Broadway veteran, play
Speaker 3: Shrek beside Sutton Foster, another like Broadway legend playing Fiona,
Speaker 3: and you're just like, what am I watching? And how
Speaker 3: much money must they have been paid? I hope right?
Speaker 3: As well as another Daniel Breaker plays Donkey extra like
Speaker 3: John Tartaglia won a Tony for playing Pinocchio. You're just like,
Speaker 3: this is a nightmare, this is disaster, right, But I
Speaker 3: do love it. I think it is. It's an adaptation
Speaker 3: of Shrek one that I think honestly worked better than
Speaker 3: Shrek one. I think it has more emotional punch it
Speaker 3: gives Shrek. I think so. I just I was thinking
Speaker 3: about that because this I think opened and closed on
Speaker 3: Broadway between the third and the fourth movie. But it
Speaker 3: does add to Shrek lore. I don't know. You know,
Speaker 3: if we're talking to the Shrek team and we say,
Speaker 3: is Shrek the musical on Broadway canonical to the Shrek universe,
Speaker 3: I think they would say, I don't care. But in
Speaker 3: a world where they did care, we would have a
Speaker 3: little bit of context for Shrek that includes, I think
Speaker 3: mainly the thrust of it explains why he got mean.
Speaker 3: It implies that he was thrown out by his parents, right.
Speaker 3: I remember that he was when he was very young,
Speaker 3: because that's Ogre tradition, is like to harden yourself to
Speaker 3: the world in the Ogre like fashion. You get tossed
Speaker 3: out by your parents when you're very young, and so
Speaker 3: that's how you become like a hardened Ogre right, and
Speaker 3: again it's just like, Wow, we have this incredible lore
Speaker 3: going into Shrek the fourth Edit's like the Broadway musical
Speaker 3: that won Tony's somehow, by the way, it won one.
Speaker 3: It won Best Costume Design. Sorry John Tartaglia didn't win
Speaker 3: a Tony for that, but you know, it won a
Speaker 3: couple drama desks as well. It was nominated for a Grammy.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying it got more than it should have.
Speaker 3: I mean, certainly, it just makes me really sad to
Speaker 3: think of like an actor as good as Brian Darcy
Speaker 3: James having to get into Shrek makeup every day for
Speaker 3: eight shows a week. That just seems like a horrible
Speaker 3: way to have to live. I think about that sometimes. Anyways,
Speaker 3: I just wanted to mention that there was a I
Speaker 3: think probably my favorite Shrek thing is Shrek the Musical
Speaker 3: because also the music is like good. It's like I
Speaker 3: I think so, I mean, I have a nostalgic attachment
Speaker 3: to it because I've seen it seven times and like
Speaker 3: many things Shrek, you know, started as a joke became
Speaker 3: real over time. But like, the music is good. I
Speaker 3: would recommend if you're popping on the soundtrack Build a
Speaker 3: Wall is like a bon Jovi song. It's wild that
Speaker 3: Shrek is singing, and also its pre Trump like it.
Speaker 3: You know, harder to listen to the song build a Wall,
Speaker 3: but he meant he means an emotional wall to keep
Speaker 3: out pain and hurt. That's another good one. Don't Let
Speaker 3: Me Go is Donkey's song when he's trying to be
Speaker 3: Shrek's friend. Iconic song I Know It's Today, A great
Speaker 3: song for Fiona. Oh god, it's just all I'll admit,
Speaker 3: it's all good. Yeah. So I would say my review
Speaker 3: of Shrek four is watch Shrek.
Speaker 2: The musical, okay, And my review of Shrek four is
Speaker 2: watch Puss in Boots the Last Wish.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, incredible? Okay. So we know that this movie
Speaker 3: passes the Shrek Doel test, Yes, but does it pass
Speaker 3: the Bechdel test? Well, no, Let's start the year twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four out on a hard and clear No. The
Speaker 3: witches talk to each other, but it's only about Shrek,
Speaker 3: and I don't know if we're really given. They're credited
Speaker 3: with names, but I don't remember learning them canonically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't address each other by name. No, And yeah,
Speaker 2: they're talking about Shrek, and Fiona doesn't talk to any
Speaker 2: other women.
Speaker 3: She does. She talks to I think Jane Lynch Shrek, gretched.
Speaker 3: She talks to Gretchen, good name, gret pretty awesome, but gretched,
Speaker 3: I don't believe responds she's making a military plan and
Speaker 3: they are like the dual smurfets of the town. Also,
Speaker 3: there is one joke at Gretchen's expense where it's implied
Speaker 3: in this Smurf like Ogre kingdom that everyone has the
Speaker 3: hots for Fiona but she doesn't. Oh, that is one
Speaker 3: thing that we didn't get to that even in the
Speaker 3: world where Fiona is a revolutionary leader, she still can't
Speaker 3: have it all. Like she has to choose being a
Speaker 3: war which is which is fundamentally what this movie comes
Speaker 3: down to. You have to choose having a relationship with
Speaker 3: a family or being a revolutionary leader and never the
Speaker 3: Twain shall meet. But they're in a conversation like that
Speaker 3: I forget where they're like, oh, you know, nothing will
Speaker 3: convince Fiona to be in a relationship because blah blah
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and Gratch It's like it would convince me,
Speaker 3: and everyone's like, eh, we're not attracted to you and
Speaker 3: you're like, okay, anyways, it doesn't pass the backdel test.
Speaker 3: But what about uh, let's get it coming hot. First
Speaker 3: nipple scale of the year, Caitlin get pumps?
Speaker 2: All right? Zero do.
Speaker 3: Do do?
Speaker 2: Do?
Speaker 3: Do? Do? Do do do?
Speaker 2: Okay, so on our scale of zero to five nipples,
Speaker 2: where we rate the movie examining it through an intersectional
Speaker 2: an interstrectional yes, lens, I would say, I'm going to
Speaker 2: give this a half nipple. As much as I enjoy
Speaker 2: seeing the very you know, fleeting moments of Fiona as
Speaker 2: a revolutionary leader, as a warrior, it's surrounded by a
Speaker 2: bunch of other gender tropy implications and just all the
Speaker 2: fat phobia around the puss and boots character. And at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, this is a story about
Speaker 2: like a man learning an emotional lesson. He's learning to
Speaker 2: be more emotionally intelligent and grateful, but also what does
Speaker 2: he learn. He doesn't learn to communicate any more effectively
Speaker 2: and open up emotionally to his partner. He learns that
Speaker 2: he needs to be grateful. But if you have to
Speaker 2: like have your entire life stripped away from you to
Speaker 2: learn that lesson, I don't know. Try harder go to therapy,
Speaker 2: like you need to learn gratitude wells.
Speaker 3: And also just as as a Shrek fan demonstrates, I
Speaker 3: think a real I just realize the sentence I'm about
Speaker 3: to say demonstrates are real stagnancy and the character development
Speaker 3: of Shrek. Yeah, you're just like We've had four movies.
Speaker 3: Shrek should be past this stuff now. He's been working
Speaker 3: through this ship for the whole franchise.
Speaker 2: My goodness. Yeah, he's very static. He never seems to
Speaker 2: learn or change, and he gets himself into the same
Speaker 2: high jinks for the same reasons over and over again,
Speaker 2: for Christe's sake. So it's annoying and I will give
Speaker 2: I'll give my half nipple. I mean, I'm inclined to
Speaker 2: give it to Fiona.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the alternate universe Fiona.
Speaker 2: Alternate universe Fiona.
Speaker 3: I think I'm gonna give this movie no nipples. I
Speaker 3: was so disappointed. I've been disappointed in this movie for
Speaker 3: almost fourteen years now, and I don't think I have
Speaker 3: any nipples to give this time. I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is like a I think. And also because I
Speaker 3: I did like, it's a wonderful life, far better than
Speaker 3: I like Shrek. Forever After. But I feel like it's
Speaker 3: not an identical but a similar plot and takeaway that
Speaker 3: like is like worse or at least equally considerate of
Speaker 3: its woman character almost seventy years later. It's such a bummer, right,
Speaker 3: so I simply have no nipples to give it this time.
Speaker 3: I can't give it any like well it was of
Speaker 3: the time, like it wasn't. And I would love to
Speaker 3: see Shrek five written by not two Like, guys, what
Speaker 3: if that happened?
Speaker 2: We should write Shrek five.
Speaker 3: I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't handle the pressure. It's too much, at least
Speaker 2: in Shrek Forever After. When we see alternate reality Fiona,
Speaker 2: she isn't a quote unquote old spinster librarian that's true,
Speaker 2: is a loser because Shrek never married her. She's a winner.
Speaker 2: It's awesome.
Speaker 3: That's the one improvement that we've made in seventy years.
Speaker 3: It's not enough. Yeah, no, no nipples from Jamie. And
Speaker 3: with that, twenty twenty four is off to the traces.
Speaker 2: We're Shrek the hall. We've shreked the halls and now
Speaker 2: and now we're off to the traces.
Speaker 3: I also just say, okay, last I just think it's
Speaker 3: really funny and no offense to the Felicies of the world.
Speaker 3: But I think it was such an underwhelming line to
Speaker 3: be like, I've always wanted a daughter named Felicia, and
Speaker 3: you're like, okay, wow, why.
Speaker 2: All of our Felicia listeners just unsubscribed.
Speaker 3: I just it's such a like. No, I mean, I
Speaker 3: would it would be weird if they said either of
Speaker 3: our names. You're like, that's a pretty normal, like, that's really.
Speaker 2: I've always wanted a baby Shrek named Caitlin.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Anyways, Happy twenty twenty four. We're rigging
Speaker 3: it in as always, and again, just another reminder if
Speaker 3: you want to check out our tour tickets, that's on
Speaker 3: our link tree, which is linked in the description of
Speaker 3: this that's San Francisco, Sacramento, d Austin, and San Diego
Speaker 3: coming up at the beginning of next month. And you
Speaker 3: can follow us in all the normal places on Instagram,
Speaker 3: and we still post on the platform formerly known as Twitter,
Speaker 3: so that's where you can find us.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you can also subscribe to our Patreon aka maatreon,
Speaker 2: where we release two bonus episodes every month, plus you'll
Speaker 2: get access to the back catalog of one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty ish bonus episodes, all for five dollars a month
Speaker 2: at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast. This month is
Speaker 2: Dance December and we're covering Flash Dance and Save the
Speaker 2: Last Dance, So.
Speaker 3: We're celebrating a little late this year. You'll forgive us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean we never, I
Speaker 2: mean Portman July has been celebrated in every other month based.
Speaker 3: You're damn right. And you can also get our birch
Speaker 3: at teapublic dot com slash Bechdel Cast. And again, if
Speaker 3: you're going to those tour shows, we will have tour
Speaker 3: exclusive merch at the meet and greet, so that'll be
Speaker 3: a blast. And we also have an exciting January plan
Speaker 3: for you, so stay tuned. Gang We love.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Shreculator, sh reculator, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is
Speaker 2: a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie
Speaker 2: loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our
Speaker 2: theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by
Speaker 2: Catherine Vosskrosenski. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie
Speaker 2: Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more
Speaker 2: information about the podcast, please visit link Tree Slash Bechdel
Speaker 2: Cast