1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You probably all remember 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: the story of Elizabeth Smart. You remember the story of 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: her being taken from her bed in the middle of 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: the night in two thousand and two. I think we 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: were all stuck by the TVs, hoping that this beautiful 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: little girl would be returned home, and yet believing that 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: nothing could possibly be, that you couldn't possibly see her 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: again in this world. And yet we did, And now 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: I get the pleasure of speaking with this incredible survivor today. 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart, Welcome to the podcast. 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for having me. 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely Like I said, we all watched your story, of course, 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: and you have spoken out. I've been so impressed with 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: the way that you have spoken out since the abduction 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: and the fact that you work so hard for people 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: who have experienced sexual abuse or abduction and and any 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: type of exploitation. Like I said, you truly are an 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: inspiration to us. 19 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you very much. I mean, I never imagined 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: this would be my life. I obviously never imagined I 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: was kidnapped either, But looking back, I'm not sorry that 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 2: it happened to me because it's given me so much 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: purpose and passion in my life. That I would like 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: to think I would have had, but truthfully, I don't 25 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: think I would have had otherwise. 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: There was always something special about you know, as I 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: was watching your Amazon documentary, I was watching through and 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: you talk about your experience, and obviously we see kind 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: of a reenactment of what happened with your abductors and 30 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: your kidnappers, and something struck me in that, and that 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: is the strength of your faith at fourteen. I told 32 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: you before we got on this podcast, my middle daughter 33 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: is fourteen. So I have sixteen, fourteen and two twelve 34 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: year old daughters and I so of course, as I 35 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: watched this and read your book, I think of my 36 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: girls and I think about what they would go through 37 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: and how they act today. And you were so strong 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: at that age, and it struck me as I was 39 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: watching your documentary that you were saying, you know, people 40 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 1: would ask me why I wouldn't have run, and it 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: seemed like that was kind of a theme throughout the 42 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: entire retelling of the story. Is almost that you were 43 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: trying to say, you know, you have to understand what 44 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: it's like. I looked at that story and I was like, what, 45 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: what intelligence and calm for you? To do what you 46 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: did and be looking for that that moment when you 47 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: could escape, and knowing that your family was still there, 48 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: like your family seemed to be a strong foundation for 49 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: you throughout the whole thing. 50 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely, my family was the one thing I felt like 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: I could rely on because I didn't you know, sexual violence, abuse, rape, 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: it was not talked about when I was a kid, 53 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 2: at least not in any of the conversations I ever had, 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: none of the lessons I ever listened to growing up. 55 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: It was just something that was not talked about, and 56 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: there was very much a sense of shame around it, 57 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: you know, when you like went to maturation or when 58 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 2: you first learned what sex was in school, Nobody talked 59 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: about the difference between enthusiastic consent versus abuse versus rape, 60 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: and so in my mind, it was all very much 61 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: the same thing. And I so when I would think 62 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: about the possibility of being rescued, I didn't know how 63 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: people would respond. I didn't know if I would be 64 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: accepted back into polite society, or if I would be 65 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: kind of cast out or just be on the outside, 66 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: kind of like a pariah. And yeah, I just didn't 67 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: know how I was going to be treated. But the 68 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: one thing that I really believed and felt and knew 69 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: in my heart was that my family would accept me. 70 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 2: And ultimately I felt like if nobody else accepted me 71 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: but my family did, that would be worth surviving for. 72 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: There's a moment in the documentary where you are out 73 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: so that people know when they took you. He took 74 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: you in the middle of the night. He took you 75 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: from your house, but you weren't far from your house. 76 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: You were out in the woods. They were camping. They 77 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: kept you out there camping. There was a one night 78 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: when you were outside and you heard people yelling your name. 79 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: I mean, it was that like was that like, oh gosh, 80 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: they're still looking. 81 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: Like mileage wise, I wasn't that far. I was less 82 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: than four miles. I think I was about three and 83 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 2: a half mile from my home, but it was incredibly 84 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: difficult to get to. I mean I hiked back there 85 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: recently with my brother and sister in law And like 86 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: as an adult now, who I would say, not that 87 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: I was in bad shape back then. I was a kid. 88 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: I ran around all the time, but like someone who's 89 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: like run marathons now and works out every day. It 90 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: was a struggle to get back there. It's very, very 91 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 2: difficult to get back there. So it wasn't just like 92 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: a little walk in the park. But yes, I and 93 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: at the time, I actually I think I was so 94 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: pumped full of adrenaline and fear I didn't realize exactly 95 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: how far or near I was in correlation to my 96 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: actual home. And I remember hearing my uncle's voice or 97 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: what I thought was my uncle's voice, and I remember 98 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: just being hopeful that I would be found. I remember 99 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: being scared that he would come into camp and then 100 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: he would be killed because my captor was right there 101 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: and he was pulling out his knife and he was like, 102 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: do you recognize this knife? And I mean, of course 103 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: I recognized it, how to held to my throat and 104 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: then he turned to me and he was like, if 105 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: you yell back, if anyone enters this campsite, they'll be 106 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: killed and it'll be your fault because you called out. 107 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 2: And so as now as an adult looking back, I 108 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,679 Speaker 2: have so much compassion for myself because I was a child. 109 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 2: Of course I didn't have like the logic or the 110 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: I don't know the I don't know many adults that 111 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: would be able to yell out in that situation though, either. 112 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: I mean, even at this point in my life, I 113 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: think I'm so protective of the people that I love 114 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: that I would rather see myself hurt than watch someone 115 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: hurt someone I love. 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I feel the same way I felt that as 117 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: a kid. I felt like I had to protect my family. 118 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: I felt like I had to protect my uncle. I 119 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: felt like I had to protect anyone who might possibly 120 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 2: find the camp because I didn't want to be responsible 121 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: for anyone's death. 122 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: And that's so much on a young child. And I 123 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: think that's what people need to remember, is that you 124 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: were fourteen years old your faith. That to me, was 125 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: what struck me so Hardy. There's a point when you 126 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: talk about it, it was Thanksgiving. You were starving most 127 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: of the time. I mean, this was such a madman. 128 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: There's no food, there was no water. He would leave 129 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: the camp and leave you with his wife, who was 130 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: sounds like not only horrible to you, but had been 131 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: horrible her whole life. 132 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: So these were genuinely. 133 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: Nasty, horrible devil, I mean, evil demon people that had 134 00:07:54,640 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: taken you. And you talk about him coming back and saying, oh, 135 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: there's a Thanksgiving dinner and we can go get this 136 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving dinner. And I was so impressed because we are 137 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: told in the Bible to be thankful in all things, 138 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: and I oftentimes think, you know, even through the hardest times, 139 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: like look at the good, look at the good that 140 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: God has provided to me. But I am an adult, 141 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: and I think about what would my kids have I 142 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: set my kids up for if there is some tragic 143 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: situation that they are able to see God and what 144 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: God has given. 145 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: Them through that. 146 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: And you did, I mean, you said that night, just 147 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: like every Thanksgiving, I went through all the things that 148 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: I'm thankful for. And then I did that every night 149 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: between then and Christmas and went through all the things 150 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: you were thankful for. That was the most mature attitude 151 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: and the most the strongest foundation in faith that I 152 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: could I've ever seen in modern day. 153 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: I was so impressed. Well, initially, when I was first kidnapped, 154 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 2: I remember thinking, I mean I remember thinking that first 155 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: day that this was the worst, This was rock bottom. 156 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 2: Nothing could be worse than what I was experiencing in 157 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: that moment. But then day two came and I was 158 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: forced to go naked all day, and that seemed worse. 159 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: And I remember that day thinking this is the worst. 160 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: Nothing could possibly be worse than this. And then the 161 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: next day came and he was like, you need to 162 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: learn how to properly make love to your husband, so 163 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 2: you're gonna watch Wanda and I have sex, and then 164 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: you're going to have to perform. And that seemed like 165 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 2: the absolute worst. And it was just like continually hitting 166 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: these new lows of horribleness, of nightmares, and every time 167 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: that this new low would happen, I mean, it was 168 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: just like a new level of devastation, and it was 169 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: just I was just sinking deeper and deeper and deeper 170 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: into just hopelessness. And I just remember feeling like I 171 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 2: can't give up. I am still thirty plus years younger 172 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: than them. I mean, just logically I will outlive them. 173 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 2: I mean, should they not kill me, should I you know, 174 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: should I not starve to death, should the elements not 175 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 2: take me out? I should still outlive them. And if 176 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: I outlive them, I would like to make it back home. 177 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: But I will never make it back home if I 178 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: just keep thinking that this is the worst. So kind 179 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: of from early on, any situation I found myself and 180 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: I would try to think of things that would make 181 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: that situation worse, because then I could be grateful that 182 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 2: it wasn't that bad. I could be grateful for whatever 183 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 2: the situation was, and that God helped me. 184 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: It's such a lesson, no matter what I mean, no 185 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: matter what hardship you're going through, is to constantly look 186 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: toward what good can come, what good can come, and 187 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: in that idea that you can be you could be 188 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: back with your family one day. There had to have 189 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: been I mean, you were gone for nine months, so 190 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: there had to have been a point when you started 191 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: to go, I don't know. I don't know if I 192 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: can ever if I can ever get back there, and 193 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: what does life look like with them? There were moments 194 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: where you really didn't know if you'd live through the night. 195 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: There's one I want to bring up. You're in California 196 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: and it's a drought. It seems like there's no water. 197 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: You were constantly searching for water. You didn't have enough 198 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: to drink it. It was horrible, and he leaves, He 199 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: gets put in prison or in jail, I guess for 200 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: for a week, and you and Wanda are there and 201 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: you say that you thought that might be the end, 202 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: that you that was the one time when you said 203 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: maybe I'm not. I've been looking so forward to seeing 204 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: my family again, but I'm so thirsty and I'm so hungry, 205 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: this might not happen. And then there's a rain, and 206 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: you gave that glory to God in that moment. 207 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: I remember. I mean, I've been asked so many times 208 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: over the years in that situation, couldn't you have just 209 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 2: run away? Wasn't that like the perfect situation to run away? 210 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: But I was so dehydrated and just so weak from 211 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: not eating that I remember standing up and just feeling 212 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: like I was going to pass out. I mean, both 213 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: Wanda Barzi and I were just lying on the ground 214 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 2: because we just did not have the energy to stand 215 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: up and move around. And I absolutely remember just feeling 216 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: like this is the end. I mean, I can't believe 217 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 2: I have survived this long. I guess about that point 218 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 2: it was, it was about eight months. I had survived 219 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: eight months only to die of starvation and dehydration. I 220 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 2: remember just almost laughing about it because it just seemed 221 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: the irony of it just just seems so pathetic. And 222 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: I remember then it did start raining, and it did 223 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: absolutely seem like a gift from God because I mean, 224 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: we would I think we would have died without it. 225 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: It seemed like an answer to blessing, to answer to prayer. 226 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 2: And I mean I remember running outside and we stretched 227 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 2: tarps to catch as much water as we possibly could, 228 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 2: and I remember, I mean just the water tasting so good, 229 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 2: and then even the next couple of days, we had 230 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: been able to pour the water into these gallon containers. 231 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: But I also remember eventually seeing what looked like, I mean, 232 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: things looked like they were growing in the water. But 233 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: even then, I mean, I was just grateful for something 234 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: to drink. Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue 235 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 2: next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. It's such a. 236 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: Stark difference, obviously from how you grew up. You had 237 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: a beautiful home, a beautiful, strong family. That's to me, 238 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: that's a worst nightmare scenario for your family, I mean 239 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: for you, but also the trauma that your entire family 240 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: goes through. Your sister was in bed with you, and 241 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure on her during this time 242 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: that you're gone, like who was it? 243 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 2: Can you tell us? 244 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: And it was a god moment that she remembered too, 245 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: and suddenly that name came back to her. But I 246 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: think about your parents from the outside as we were 247 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: watching this, and I know many people have told you 248 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: this from the outside, you see the media narrative start 249 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: to take hold. It's like, oh, the father must be involved, 250 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: there must be something weird happening. It's just such a 251 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: bizarre scenario that someone would come into your house and 252 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: take you out of your bed. You know, it's so hard, 253 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: and there was so little evidence of what happened. It 254 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: was so hard for the country to wrap their minds around. 255 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: And I think the reason it was so hard was 256 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: because none of us want that to ever happen, so 257 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: it couldn't happen. It's easier to say it couldn't happen 258 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: then to admit that it did happen. What was that 259 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: like coming back home? They were obviously, I mean, as parents, 260 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: they must have felt so many emotions of failure and 261 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: shame and just brokenness and you kind of have to 262 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: rebuild each other. But you're fourteen or fifteen when you 263 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: got home, right. 264 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was fifteen when I got home. What 265 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: was that like? Well, there's so many things you just 266 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 2: said that I want to respond to. I mean, number one, 267 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: you kind of describe this mindset that this was so 268 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: terrible you don't want to think that it can happen 269 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 2: to you. And I actually think that is a very 270 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: dangerous mindset because it stops us from having conversations that 271 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 2: are important to have. I mean, the national average that 272 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 2: we know of that our case is reported, it's about 273 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: one in five women are sexually abused. In Utah, where 274 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 2: I live, it's even worse. It's about one in three 275 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 2: women are sexually abused in their lifetime, and honestly, I 276 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: think it's much higher in both the national average and Utah. 277 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: These are just the cases that are reported, because we 278 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: know so many don't go reported, and these are very 279 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 2: important conversations to be had. I mean, this is very 280 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: important safety information to be had. We sorry not to 281 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: go down a rabbit hole, but just to give an 282 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: as so, no, I think this is important. 283 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: This is what, like I said, I do think that 284 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: we like to say it's impossible because we don't want 285 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: it to have to happen to us, and then we 286 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: are unprepared. 287 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: Exactly, And we have so much safety education, which I 288 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 2: think is great. I'm a fan of all safety education. 289 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: But just to give you an example, everybody knows what 290 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 2: you should do if you catch on fire, stop, drop 291 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 2: and roll. And I don't know the exact status, Like 292 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 2: I've been lazily looking and I haven't found an exact statistic. 293 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 2: But as I've gone out and spoken, I'll usually ask 294 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: people to raise their hand in the audience if they've 295 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: ever used stop, drop and roll. And there might be 296 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 2: an audience or two or three hundred and maybe one 297 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: person will raise their hand, maybe two, maybe two people 298 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 2: will raise their hand. It is not a lot of people, 299 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: and we all know it, but we all know it. 300 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 2: And then I don't ask because I feel like I 301 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: don't want anyone to feel like they need to share 302 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: something they're not ready to share. I don't want anyone 303 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: to look at anyone else differently or anything. I don't 304 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: want to put anyone in a sensitive situation. But I 305 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: could ask how many of you have been sexually abused? 306 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 2: And I feel like we'd see at least a third 307 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 2: of the room raise their hand, And yet we really 308 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: don't talk about these issues. So this is that mindset 309 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: is very dangerous. For this reason, we need to be 310 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 2: having a lot of conversations. And then kind of continuing 311 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 2: on with your question, it is Unfortunately, it is the 312 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 2: norm that when a child goes missing, it typically is 313 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: the parents or someone very close to the family. It 314 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 2: is really more of the exception that it's a stranger. 315 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 2: And so as heartbreaking and as difficult as it is, 316 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 2: my parents were they it was not unreasonable for the 317 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: police to look at my parents. And since that time, 318 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 2: I mean, anytime my dad has ever spoken to a 319 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: family who has had a child kidnapped, he will always say, 320 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 2: just cooperate with the police. They are going to look 321 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: at you. You go in for whatever questioning, whatever lie 322 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: detector test that you need to go in for, so 323 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: that the focus can remain on finding your child and 324 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: bringing your child home. So that I mean, as difficult 325 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 2: and miserable as that is, that is kind of that 326 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: first line of questioning. And I mean at the time 327 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: when I was rescued, I remember just being flabbergasted that 328 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: anyone could think it was my family, that it could 329 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 2: be my parents or my brothers. I mean, that just 330 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 2: seems so ridiculous to me because my family had never 331 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 2: hurt me. My dad had never hurt me, my brothers 332 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: had never hurt me. I mean, they teased me like 333 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 2: we were normal siblings, but like they'd never abused me 334 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 2: or like threatened me or anything like that. So that 335 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: just seems so ridiculous to me when I got home, 336 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: and now as a parent myself, you know, when I 337 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: first got home, I thought, well, come on, you guys 338 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 2: were the lucky ones like you were together, You weren't 339 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: stuck on this mountainside with these monsters. Me I was 340 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: by myself. You did not have it as bad as 341 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: what I experienced. But now as a parent myself and 342 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: looking at my children, I mean, there just isn't anything 343 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 2: that I wouldn't do to protect my children or to 344 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 2: prevent them from being hurt or from going through what 345 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 2: I went through. I mean I would go through it 346 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: again in a heartbeat if it meant that my children 347 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 2: never had to go through it. And so now as 348 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 2: a parent myself, I have so much more compassion for 349 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: my own parents and what they went through while I 350 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 2: was gone. Is she out of prison now, Wanda? She is? Yeah? 351 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: Has she ever tried to reach out to you? No? 352 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 2: And I'm okay with never talking to her again. I 353 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 2: would imagine, yeah, I would never want to either. 354 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: She had a history of abuse before that, so she's 355 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: obviously a dangerous person, very mentally ill. And I don't 356 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: even want to give her that excuse because I think 357 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: it's just so it was so incredibly evil what they did. 358 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: So you came home and you reconnected with your family, 359 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: did you know did you have any idea, like, had 360 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,479 Speaker 1: you a sense that things were coming close? Or I 361 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: mean you had no access to the news or anything. 362 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: How did they finally how did they finally know where 363 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: you were? 364 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: Well, my so, my captor, Brian Mitchell, he would go 365 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 2: down into Salt Lake and when he'd come back, sometimes 366 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 2: he would bring newspapers or he even brought back a 367 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: missing flyer once of me, and he would say things like, Oh, 368 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: all of Salt Lake is looking for you, the whole 369 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: world is looking for you, but no one will ever 370 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 2: find you because I have you. And I would say 371 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: that just added to this sense of this feeling that 372 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 2: he was invincible, and this feeling that maybe I wouldn't escape, 373 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: maybe I wouldn't be rescued, because he just seemed to 374 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: get away with everything that he wanted. He could do anything, 375 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: and he was never getting caught, he was never getting stopped. 376 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: And so my sister had that moment where She's like, 377 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: I know who did it? She told my dad. My 378 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 2: dad told the police. The police really didn't think it 379 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 2: was this Emmanuel that was the name that Brian Mitchell 380 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: went by at the time, and they were stuck on 381 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: this other person that they thought this Richard Reesi, who 382 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 2: had done some work for my parents and he actually 383 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 2: ended up dying in prison. And the police were like, oh, 384 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: you know, the secret of Elizabeth's disappearance has has gone 385 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 2: to his grave with him. We'll never find her. But 386 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 2: my dad was insistent that you know, y Catherine says, 387 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: it's this other guy, like we need to look in 388 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: to him. And they were like, oh, we don't really 389 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 2: think so. My Dad's like, let me do, like, bring 390 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: in a sketch artist. Let me at least try to 391 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 2: tell you what he looks like. Let's just try. They 392 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: brought in a sketch artist. My dad had a sketch, like, 393 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: did a sketch of him, and the police were just like, 394 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: don't release this. You know, we'll we'll look into it, 395 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: we'll consider it. Well. My dad was good friends with 396 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: John Walsh at the time, from America's Most Wanted. He 397 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: called John up and was like, May Catherine thinks she 398 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 2: knows who it is. We had. We went down to 399 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 2: the police station, they did a sketch of him. We 400 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: have this sketch of him, and John was just like, 401 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 2: you have to go public with it, and you have 402 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 2: to follow absolutely every lead that you can find, never 403 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,360 Speaker 2: give up. And actually it was John Walsh that ended 404 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: up releasing that sketch on Larry King Live. And when 405 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 2: that sketch was released and the name Emmanuel, one of 406 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 2: Brian Mitchell's family members actually saw it and called the 407 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 2: police and said, I think I know who you're looking for. 408 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: And that is what led to my rescue because then 409 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 2: they started looking for Brian Mitchell and people recognized him 410 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: when we eventually made it back to Utah and I. 411 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: Was rescued, and you made it back to Utah because 412 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: you had kind of figured out their language, their way 413 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: of communication, and their belief system, and their belief system 414 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: was this like false prophet, I hear from the Lord 415 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: and you were to me, this is so impressive at 416 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 1: your young age that you were able to use that 417 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: and kind of use psychology against him to say, you know, 418 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: this is you. You should go back to Utah. Had 419 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: you not gone back to Utah. Do you think you 420 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: would have been found? 421 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if I would have 422 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: been found, because towards the I mean the last month, 423 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 2: the last I don't know, five weeks that we were 424 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: in California, I was not allowed to go out into civilization, 425 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: the general population anymore. He was just keeping me hidden 426 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: up and up in the mountains there, and so I 427 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 2: think he was feeling more wary, even though I don't 428 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 2: think he knew that his sketch had been released. I 429 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: don't think he knew any of that. I just think 430 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: he was feeling more wary. Plus, he had also tried 431 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: to kidnap another young girl at that time, because he 432 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: had this whole plan that he was going to kidnap 433 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 2: seven young girls and I was just the first, and 434 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 2: he had actually had tended it and he had not 435 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 2: been successful. But I think it had kind of shooken 436 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: him a bit, and so he was just keeping me 437 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: out of sight. And so had we remained in California. 438 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: Do I think I would have been found if I 439 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: if I was found, I don't think it would have. 440 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: I think it would have been much later. I think 441 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 2: it would have been a much longer time period that 442 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 2: I was held captive for there. 443 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 1: Were and maybe and you don't know if you would 444 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: have lived through that, because you were you had had 445 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: some experiences where you were so close to starvation and dehydration, 446 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: and these experiences that you had where God just provided 447 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 1: in a moment when you felt like you were just 448 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: overwhelmed at the last moment of your ability to hang on, 449 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: and the rain was won. There was another time when 450 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: there had been no water and you woke up to 451 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: a full cup of water next to where you were sleeping, 452 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: which you said was just absolutely impossible. And I do 453 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: believe that God sustained to you and has a plan 454 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: for you. And your plan is to talk about this 455 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: and to encourage people, And the way you speak about 456 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: it is so impressive to me that you are able 457 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: to say we all we all go through different trauma. 458 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: You don't really discriminate against trauma, which I think is 459 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: amazing because I think you've been through one of the worst, 460 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 1: and yet you're so welcoming to everybody who feels as 461 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: though like I've gone through something really hard. You talked 462 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: about this with a friend and she said, but your 463 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: heart is so much harder than my heart. 464 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 2: And you. 465 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: I love how you were like, No, everybody has to 466 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: go through things and we have to come back out 467 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: of those things. And you're you're just such a welcoming 468 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: leader of people who have gone through hard in life. 469 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: But you one of the things that you said, I 470 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: just want to get into really quickly. One of the 471 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: things that you said was that you didn't think that 472 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: you would ever be able to survive your parents breaking up, 473 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: because your family had been kind of that rock that 474 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: you the example, the people who gave you faith, the 475 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: rock that you were waiting to get back to, and 476 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: then you came back and they were the ones who 477 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: helped to build you back up. But your father called 478 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: you one morning, which also is just kind of interesting 479 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: timing because of what you'd been through in the wee 480 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: hours of the morning in your life to get a 481 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: call that was a pretty devastating call. 482 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 2: What was that like? I mean when I first saw 483 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 2: his phone number pop up, I thought my mom was 484 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 2: in the hospital. I thought something had happened. I thought, 485 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: I mean, I would say any early morning phone called. 486 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 2: Now these days, I'm like, what happened? Like, who's in trouble? 487 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: Who is hurt? So I definitely had that thought in 488 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 2: my mind, and then I answered it, and I mean 489 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 2: it was just like word vomit. My dad couldn't get 490 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 2: the words out quick enough. And that's when he told 491 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: me that he and my mom are getting a divorce, 492 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 2: that he was gay, and none of these things. I mean, like, 493 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: you know, I'd seen my parents disagree, but then i'd 494 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 2: always turn around and you know, seeing them get past 495 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 2: their disagreements, holding hands. You know, I'd seen them kissing. 496 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 2: To me, they just seemed like a normal couple. You know, 497 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: you have your disagreements, you work through, and then you 498 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: move on. And so I didn't ever think that there 499 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: was really any real chance of them divorcing. And I 500 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: certainly certainly never had a clue that my dad was gay. 501 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I remember I remember just thinking I'd misheard, 502 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: and I remember saying, wait, wait, can you say that again? 503 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: But I mean, I think that was such a like 504 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: he was so anxious about how the phone call was 505 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: gonna go. He just kept going, and I think he 506 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: was probably full of adrenaline at that time, probably really 507 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 2: scared of my reaction. And I just remember in that 508 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: moment being like, I'm not even sure how to respond, 509 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 2: but no matter what, he's still my dad and I 510 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: still love him. And that was really the gist of 511 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: the phone call. How old were you at that point? 512 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 2: I was. I mean that was about seven years ago, 513 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 2: so I was thirty one. I mean I just had 514 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: my last baby. My last baby was a month old. 515 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I guess it was literally this time 516 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: seven years ago. 517 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: That's a lot to think about, because you knew in 518 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: that moment that this was bigger than just your parents 519 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: splitting up. This was your dad is also going to 520 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: have to leave the church. And that seemed to be 521 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: a huge part of your life, and you went on 522 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: a mission for the church. You're the church is the 523 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: church is what's guided you it seems like forever. I 524 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: mean it certainly was a huge part of my life. 525 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: And yeah, it felt like just like a bomb going off. 526 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 2: I mean, having all three of those things, you know, 527 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 2: my dad saying he's divorced and my mom my dad's 528 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 2: saying he was gay, my dad's saying he was leaving 529 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 2: the church. I was just like, oh my gosh, what 530 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 2: like my whole life, Like you've been the one that's like, okay, 531 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 2: like we need to go to church, Like oh you know, 532 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: it's Saturday. Let's you know what I signed us up 533 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: to go clean the church, to go prepare the chapel 534 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: for Sunday, like you know, like oh, it's the church's 535 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 2: fun run, or it's like the church's Memorial Day breakfast, 536 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 2: or like he was very much. I mean both my 537 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: parents were just very heavily involved, and they always stressed 538 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: the importance of faith my entire my entire childhood, my 539 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 2: my entire life. And so it was yeah, I just 540 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: it was a shock. But your family is still very close. 541 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 2: You know, our family has changed. I mean, how could 542 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 2: you not change? And holidays are different, birthdays are different, 543 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 2: and it's been an interesting navigation. Let's take a quick 544 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 2: commercial break. We'll continue next on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 545 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: You have been put through major trials and yet you 546 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: have taken them and turned them into something incredible. And 547 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: you go out and you speak and you encourage and 548 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: you are a light I mean, and some people will 549 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: say that they can see a light around people, and 550 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: I really do feel like you have that light of 551 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: the Lord shining through you. And you had to to 552 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: overcome this, but you still you continue to go out 553 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: and talk. You have a memoir coming out. I want 554 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: to talk to people about that. Tell us about your book, 555 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: and you have another movie coming out on Netflix, which 556 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: I am anxious to watch, and I want to tell 557 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: you that I am so impressed with your story. I mean, 558 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: as I'm listening to you talk, I'm getting chills because 559 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: I can just feel the power of your spirit. 560 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 2: It is so strong. 561 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: And I want my girls to know your story because 562 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: it is what we would say is some of the 563 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: lowest parts of life. And yet I am so impressed 564 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,479 Speaker 1: with who you are even through that. So tell us 565 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: a little bit about the documentary and tell us about 566 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: the book. 567 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 2: Okay, so this is my new book and it's different. 568 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: I so this is my third book, and it's different 569 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 2: from my others because my first book really was the 570 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 2: story of what happened. My second book, I took the 571 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: questions that I was most asked, and then I went 572 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 2: out and I found other people that I really admired, 573 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: and I got their answers and tried to write a 574 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 2: book around these questions and the answers of other people. 575 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: So even if people didn't connect with me, they would 576 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: connect with someone else who I'd interviewed. And then this 577 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 2: last book Detours that is coming out on December sixteenth, 578 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: is really more about my healing journey and kind of 579 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: the rest stops or steps along the way. And I 580 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 2: called it Detours because I think there are so many 581 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 2: comparisons about life is a highway, or life is a journey, 582 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 2: or you know, like life is your like a path 583 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 2: through the world. There's so many comparisons like that, and 584 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: I was just thinking, we all have these moments in 585 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 2: our lives where we go through something and it seems 586 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 2: to throw that road off course and you just can't 587 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: imagine how you're going to get through it. So I 588 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 2: talk about these different rest stops along the way of 589 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: how I got through it. And I mean, if anything, 590 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 2: this book is meant to be a friend. It's meant 591 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: to be just a help. It's not meant to say, well, 592 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: you needed to do this, or if you do all 593 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 2: these things, you'll be better in six months, because everyone's 594 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 2: healing journey is going to be different and you need 595 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 2: to find what works for you. But it's but I'm 596 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 2: hoping that this book provides hope that everyone can heal 597 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 2: and that everyone can find their way forward. And you know, 598 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 2: probably the first step or the first rest stop along 599 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 2: the way is knowing that it's okay to grieve the 600 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: path that you feel lost to you. So, for example, 601 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 2: you know, with my parents' divorce, grieving the fact that 602 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 2: my family would never be the same, that the holidays 603 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 2: would never be the same, that to some extent, my 604 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: family would always feel incomplete because either my mom would 605 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 2: be missing or my dad would be missing. And that 606 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 2: was something that was very sad to me. I mean, 607 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: my parents had been my foundation my whole life, and 608 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 2: if I ever felt like I wasn't strong enough or 609 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 2: if I was ever struggling, they were the first people 610 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 2: I called, and so just realizing that it was going 611 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: to be different, that was something that was very sad. 612 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 2: And even to this day, you know, when there are 613 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 2: special events, there's still an element of sadness because it's 614 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 2: just different. And there have absolutely been times where I'm like, 615 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 2: this all would have just been easier if they had 616 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 2: never divorced, or this would just be easier if they 617 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 2: were still together, But I also recognized that that wouldn't 618 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 2: have been healthy for either one of them. They're split 619 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 2: was something that needed to happen, but it doesn't make 620 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 2: it as their child. It doesn't make it any easier 621 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 2: for me. 622 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: I love the fact that you say life is like 623 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 1: a journey on a road, and we have these detours. 624 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: Your detours are major detours, and yet we all have them. 625 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 2: You are so right. 626 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: It's something that we sometimes struggle to look at. I 627 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: remember sitting in a Bible study with a group of women, 628 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: and we were young, and we were talking about the 629 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: fact that this would happen, and the Bible tells us 630 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: this will happen. And there were some in the group 631 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: who said, I don't want it to ever happen to me, 632 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: and I don't want to hear that. And I remember 633 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: at the time I had just lost a baby and 634 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: I thought, wow, I didn't want it to happen to me. 635 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 1: They're like, you don't get you don't get a choice. 636 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,439 Speaker 1: And I think that is the strong message of this book. 637 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: And I would love to see it in book clubs. 638 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: I would love to see it in schools because what 639 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: you said about having never learned about rape, having never 640 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: learned about these things, I don't think many people want 641 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: to hear the ugly and yet we will go through 642 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: it without a guide. And this book is preparing you 643 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: or helping you through, whether you have gone through something 644 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: hard or not. 645 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 2: The way the book talks to you, it's written to 646 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 2: talk to you as well. 647 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: That's what I kind of love about it is that 648 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: I feel like we're having a conversation. As I'm reading 649 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: the book, You're like, are you still with me? 650 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 2: You know? 651 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: And that was so creative and so I mean enticing, 652 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: because we do all go through heart. There's no avoiding heart. 653 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: You've been through some of the most hard and yet 654 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: you're walking alongside of all of us, just like a 655 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: character right out of the Bible, just like an esther, 656 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: which is so impressied. I mean, I see his footsteps 657 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: alongside you your entire journey, and that's so inspiring for 658 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,919 Speaker 1: me and for everybody else who is looking to say, 659 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: who is leading me? 660 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 2: And that's the Lord. I mean. We've all only experienced 661 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 2: our own worst trauma. We've all only experienced our own 662 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 2: worst sadness, and each one of us knows how bad 663 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 2: that feels. And no matter what we've experienced, we can 664 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 2: feel compassion, we can feel empathy, we can feel understanding 665 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 2: for the people around us, but we will never feel 666 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 2: what they have felt. We will never feel exactly their emotions, 667 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 2: and so I think it is so important to have 668 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 2: passionate and understanding and grace for everyone around us, because 669 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,399 Speaker 2: I've never met someone who hasn't had a bad day. 670 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 2: I've never met someone who hasn't gone through something. And 671 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 2: you know, maybe as you're younger, maybe it's just the 672 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: heartache of a breakup, or maybe it's just the disappointment 673 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,320 Speaker 2: of doing poorly on a test. I mean, it doesn't 674 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 2: always have to be big, huge, traumatic things, but we've 675 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 2: all felt pain and sometimes we think we can never 676 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: come back from it. And as much as I would 677 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 2: love to walk beside I mean physically walk beside everybody, 678 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 2: I mean I am just one person and I don't 679 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 2: know everything. I mean, I'm still trying to figure out 680 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 2: life and how to be the best person that I 681 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 2: can be. And so I feel like this book really 682 00:39:53,880 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 2: just tries to help, just tries to give what I've learned. Yeah, 683 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 2: it's great, It's absolutely great. 684 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: It would be a great Christmas present for people who 685 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: have anybody in their life that has gone through trauma. 686 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: But honestly, it is just a friend. 687 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 2: It is a guide. 688 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: It's for anybody who loves reading and loves to hear 689 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: about life, and you take us on a lot of detours, 690 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,680 Speaker 1: but it is amazing, So it's detours and tell us 691 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: where people can get it. 692 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 2: So you can get it from Elizabethsmart dot com. You 693 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 2: can order it directly from my website. You can order 694 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 2: it off of Amazon. Those are both great places to 695 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 2: order it. 696 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Elizabeth Smart. You are an amazing woman. 697 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: I am so impressed with you. I will never forget 698 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: your story and hearing it. But you hear the story 699 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: and you never Oftentimes when this happens, you don't get 700 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: to see the follow up and you are amazing. So 701 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: thank you for what you do every day. 702 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 703 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me absolutely and thank you all 704 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: for joining us on the Tutor Dixon podcast. 705 00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 2: As you know for this episode and others. 706 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: You can get it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts 707 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can always 708 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: watch it on Rumble or YouTube at Tutor Dixon. Join 709 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: us next time and have a blessed day.