Speaker 1: Hey, there're folks in this episode.
Speaker 2: Our Love Stories series continues with what is undoubtedly the
Speaker 2: most unorthodox married couple in our series, Couple number three,
Speaker 2: Newlywed's Jacob and Samantha. He's gay, she's straight. They're married,
Speaker 2: and they're here to help us, help you. Welcome to
Speaker 2: this special Cuffing season edition of Amy and TJ and Robes.
Speaker 2: We need to make this clear. They are in a
Speaker 2: monogamous marriage even though he's a gay man, she's a
Speaker 2: straight woman.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 4: This is Jeff Hoff and Samantha Greenstone. I first read
Speaker 4: about this couple in the New York Times, and I
Speaker 4: was fascinated because they are not your typical married couple,
Speaker 4: and they really want to make it clear. This is
Speaker 4: not to be confused with a lavender marriage.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wa to know what that want, I had to google
Speaker 4: that as well. Basically, that's two people who get together
Speaker 4: and and one person is gay and is using the
Speaker 4: other as a beard, basically making other people believe he
Speaker 4: or she is straight. All the while they're stepping out
Speaker 4: of their marriage and having those relationships that they actually
Speaker 4: wish they could have if it weren't shunned or in
Speaker 4: some way frowned upon to be gay.
Speaker 2: So it's a very important distinction.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 4: These are two people who love each other, who are
Speaker 4: dedicated and devoted to one another, who are monogamous. And
Speaker 4: the way well you'll hear Jeff say it for himself.
Speaker 4: I don't want to put words in his mouth because
Speaker 4: it really is fascinated. We asked him, you know, how
Speaker 4: are you not gay? Why aren't you a bisexual? Why
Speaker 4: aren't you a pan sexual? He addresses it all and
Speaker 4: it really makes a lot of sense. It's ultimately one
Speaker 4: soul connecting to another. It has nothing to do with
Speaker 4: gender or sexual orientation.
Speaker 2: And again, this is a monogamous, yes, monogamous relationship, but
Speaker 2: a monogamous sexual relationship as well. And this is not
Speaker 2: a situation where she's saying, Okay, you go do your
Speaker 2: thing somewhere else. Absolutely not. It is not that. So
Speaker 2: it's we were trying to get a diversity of couples.
Speaker 2: This is as diverse as we could get.
Speaker 4: Yep, it's true series, and it's cool because this wasn't
Speaker 4: some impulsive thing they did either. They met at an
Speaker 4: audition for Fiddler on the Roof, They dated for seven
Speaker 4: years and really went through it debating whether or not
Speaker 4: they could each make this kind of I don't want
Speaker 4: to say sacrifice, but just devotion to one another despite
Speaker 4: their differences, and they.
Speaker 2: Have talked about it, they have talked about it publicly,
Speaker 2: and they continue to promote, if you will, their relationship
Speaker 2: and having this type of relationship and giving people another
Speaker 2: way to think about relationships in marriage with their accounts
Speaker 2: on social media in particular TikTok. But no matter where
Speaker 2: you might be in your relationship and your dating life,
Speaker 2: we could.
Speaker 1: All use a little help. And this is why Ropes
Speaker 1: and I've been doing this.
Speaker 2: We have a number of couples we've talked to ask
Speaker 2: them all the exact same list of relationship questions. Who
Speaker 2: said I love you first? How often do you have sex?
Speaker 2: How often do you fight? You go to bit angry?
Speaker 2: You ever threatened to break up during an argument?
Speaker 1: Stuff like that.
Speaker 2: But we got practical as well, about finances and chores
Speaker 2: around the house.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the things that a lot of times, the mundane
Speaker 4: things that weigh couples down. But we, as we mentioned,
Speaker 4: talk to a diverse bunch. We have an interracial couple
Speaker 4: with a thirty year age difference, a couple celebrating eleven years,
Speaker 4: but she was married when they first met. An actress
Speaker 4: and a country singer and her pro soccer hubby who
Speaker 4: lived in another continent. A mixed orientation and couple who
Speaker 4: you're going to hear today.
Speaker 2: So we're going to drop a new episode with a
Speaker 2: new couple every single day leading up to Valentine's Day.
Speaker 2: So today it is Samantha and Jacob. Please take a
Speaker 2: listen to our conversation with him.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 5: Thank younas.
Speaker 6: We're so excited.
Speaker 4: Oh good, because I hope you can match my enthusiasm.
Speaker 4: So you guys kind of exploded in terms of being
Speaker 4: known because the New York Times did an article on you.
Speaker 3: You all, this is self described.
Speaker 4: Are a mixed orientation couple. Tell us what that means?
Speaker 6: Okay, So the technical definition of mixed orientation is that
Speaker 6: one partner's sexual preference or their identity is different than
Speaker 6: the other partners. So one person can be straight and
Speaker 6: the other person can be gay or a whole slew
Speaker 6: of whatever you identify as. But they're two different things
Speaker 6: coming together in a relationship.
Speaker 2: How does that work? Is the first question. I'm sure
Speaker 2: you all get because it's just not something we're used
Speaker 2: to seeing and hearing about totally.
Speaker 6: So I think the most important thing for me as
Speaker 6: the person who identifies as gay is to be able
Speaker 6: to continue my identity outside of the fact that Samantha
Speaker 6: and I are in a relationship, married, what have you.
Speaker 6: And the reason is for the mental health benefits to
Speaker 6: be able to own your identity as a person and
Speaker 6: to say that doesn't change. It doesn't change who I
Speaker 6: am just because my soulmate.
Speaker 7: Is Samantha, right, And I think it works because we
Speaker 7: are soulmates, and when you find your person in life,
Speaker 7: it transcends whatever logic or anything we put ourselves into
Speaker 7: a box as because like, your person's just your.
Speaker 6: Person, right. And so people will say, well, then why
Speaker 6: don't you identify as bisexual or why don't you identify
Speaker 6: pan sexual or all these other labels that they have now,
Speaker 6: And I think that those are all fantastic. I just
Speaker 6: don't in my brain, fit into those categories. Bisexual means
Speaker 6: you're attracted to both sexes, and outside of Samantha, I'm
Speaker 6: not attracted to women. There would never be an instance
Speaker 6: where a woman would be sexy to me and and
Speaker 6: sexual as they say on Shit's Creek is about the wine,
Speaker 6: not the label, And to me, the label is important.
Speaker 6: I am attracted to men, so that doesn't fit my
Speaker 6: definition either. So gay is the correct definition. But then
Speaker 6: we also have to acknowledge the fact that I'm married
Speaker 6: to a woman.
Speaker 4: And so the next question I know that you all get,
Speaker 4: so I want to get it out of the way,
Speaker 4: is do you have a sex life and are you monogamous?
Speaker 6: Yes? And yes, right, which that also creates confusion for
Speaker 6: people to say, say, how can you, as a gay
Speaker 6: man have a sexual relationship with the woman? And that
Speaker 6: is as we say, it's a sole connection. It's it's
Speaker 6: not the same thing as that lustful one night stand
Speaker 6: sort of energy. It's the closest we can be as
Speaker 6: a couple when we are intimate. It's it's a closeness,
Speaker 6: it's a bond. It's something transcendent of just sort of
Speaker 6: that lustful, horny sort of stuff, and you know, and
Speaker 6: it's very it's it's beautiful. There's nothing more wonderful than
Speaker 6: those moments.
Speaker 7: And apparently I have to spell it out too to
Speaker 7: some people because when we say intimate, people don't get that,
Speaker 7: like we're having sex.
Speaker 5: So we're having sex. Yes, it's not just like we
Speaker 5: kiss and hold hands.
Speaker 8: Right, but we have to be that specific.
Speaker 2: Do you relish the opportunity you have to get a
Speaker 2: message out to show different type of love that people
Speaker 2: aren't seeing. Or are you getting to a point of
Speaker 2: folks leave us alone, don't want to answer any more questions.
Speaker 2: Let us live our life and live our love and
Speaker 2: you do your thing.
Speaker 7: No, I think we do relish. That's the best way
Speaker 7: that I could. I love that you put it that way,
Speaker 7: because that is the perfect way to describe our passion
Speaker 7: for this. I think had we had an example like
Speaker 7: us at the beginning of our relationship, it would have
Speaker 7: saved us a lot of confusion. It would have saved
Speaker 7: us a lot of just feeling like a freak show
Speaker 7: for a few years. Yeah, because we knew we loved
Speaker 7: each other, but we were so confused at the facts
Speaker 7: that this was working because we'd never heard about it
Speaker 7: before or seen an example.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So we basically timeline We were best friends for eighteen
Speaker 6: months before dating, and then once we started dating, I say,
Speaker 6: there was about a six to eight month honeymoon period
Speaker 6: and then there was maybe three plus years of like,
Speaker 6: so there was a lot of ups and downs of
Speaker 6: confusion and what's going on here? And is this something
Speaker 6: that's really going to last? And insecurities and things that
Speaker 6: came up that I think come up in a lot
Speaker 6: of relationships once that honeymoon period fizzles. But I think
Speaker 6: that that was hyper intensified because of our dynamic and
Speaker 6: because we didn't have anybody else to talk to about this.
Speaker 7: So sometimes people on our videos will be like, we
Speaker 7: get it, you're married to a gay man.
Speaker 5: You don't have to tell us every time, And I'm like, no,
Speaker 5: we do.
Speaker 7: Because if we can reach one new person because of
Speaker 7: that tagline, and we reached the right person who's like
Speaker 7: also in this relationship dynamic, and we can cause them
Speaker 7: to be a little less confused as they're just like
Speaker 7: exploring their relationship, that's worth it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's beautiful. It's one soul recognizing another.
Speaker 4: I think it's awesome. So I'll start now on the
Speaker 4: questions that we have been asking.
Speaker 3: Everybody, but you just are so special. We had to
Speaker 3: ask a few out of the box. So I thank you.
Speaker 4: We we so appreciate your willingness to talk about it
Speaker 4: because it's so special and it's so cool. So if
Speaker 4: you could describe your relationship right now, each of you
Speaker 4: in three words, what three words would you use?
Speaker 6: I would say honest, I would say loyal.
Speaker 5: Yeah, disloyal and honestly the same.
Speaker 6: I think they're a little different because you can be
Speaker 6: disloyal and you're to be honest.
Speaker 2: You're right, okay, come on, so these are his words.
Speaker 1: Let him have his words.
Speaker 6: You get free too, and loyal, honest and playful.
Speaker 5: Okay. And for me, I would say fun, happy and.
Speaker 6: Just perfect.
Speaker 2: Well, and you all already the next question here you
Speaker 2: already said that you were friends, so best friends for
Speaker 2: a while before you actually got into a relationship. But
Speaker 2: was there immediate chemistry, whether that was friendship chemistry or
Speaker 2: romantic chemistry when you first first met.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the very first meeting, I say, was like a
Speaker 6: fan meeting the diva at the stage door because Samantha
Speaker 6: was going in for the callback of the show. They
Speaker 6: were calling back. The Frumisarah's which, if you know Fiddler
Speaker 6: on the Roof is this witch who comes in the
Speaker 6: nightmare sequence, and there's more of a ghost witch, but
Speaker 6: she's like in the room, it's quiet. Everybody else is
Speaker 6: in the lobby in this like you, there's a lot
Speaker 6: of audition energy and everybody's nervous, and I just hear
Speaker 6: this like through the through the walls, and I'm like,
Speaker 6: what is this And she comes out of the theater
Speaker 6: and I knew it was her. I mean there was
Speaker 6: like ten different girls in the room, and I knew
Speaker 6: this was the person who made that cackle. And I
Speaker 6: was like, if they don't give you that part, they're crazy.
Speaker 6: And she goes, you know, thank you, thank you. You know,
Speaker 6: she just funny to be out of there.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Like, I'm like the type of person who's like, once
Speaker 7: I do an audition, I like to like just leave
Speaker 7: the building and pretend it didn't happen, because it's if
Speaker 7: you dwell on it, it just you know, it's it
Speaker 7: can drive you cucko.
Speaker 5: So I'm like he was telling me what I was
Speaker 5: already thinking. I was like, I just killed that.
Speaker 7: And then so I was like, great, he's like reaffirming that.
Speaker 5: I feel like I just killed it, and he's telling
Speaker 5: me that I just killed it.
Speaker 6: But there was like this like immediate friend after once
Speaker 6: we were cast and were in rehearsals together, we were
Speaker 6: immediate friends. Spending every minute together, I mean till four
Speaker 6: in the morning. We would be hanging out every day
Speaker 6: after rehearsal.
Speaker 3: Was Sunrise Sunset? Was that a part of your wedding?
Speaker 6: H No, no, no, Well.
Speaker 3: I love that song.
Speaker 6: I do too. I that's like the most beautiful. So
Speaker 6: our friends did it at their wedding like a month
Speaker 6: before ours, and it's like, you know, we'll let them,
Speaker 6: let them have that one.
Speaker 5: But he did enter the Phantom of the Opera I
Speaker 5: did with a mask.
Speaker 6: With a mask? Yeah, whoa?
Speaker 3: So you love that?
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a there's a portion towards the end of
Speaker 6: the musical where like she rips off his mask in
Speaker 6: front of a bunch of people and there's like this scream,
Speaker 6: and so I wanted that to open the wedding, but.
Speaker 7: Of course then it sets off our two year old nieces,
Speaker 7: who are the flower girls in the back. They hear
Speaker 7: the scream and then you hear it's like this beautiful
Speaker 7: moment where it's like the scream and then Jacob's mom
Speaker 7: walks out to walk him down the aisle to all
Speaker 7: I ask of you.
Speaker 5: But like, oh, she's freaking out, and she's like, that's
Speaker 5: so funny.
Speaker 3: But that's so cool. Another one of my favorite musicals,
Speaker 3: who said I who said I love you? First?
Speaker 5: He did?
Speaker 6: Did yeah, and he had threw tears. I was about
Speaker 6: to say, yeah, I need that sort of drama.
Speaker 1: You know what.
Speaker 2: We will follow up there since you said there were
Speaker 2: tears involved, What did the what did it look like
Speaker 2: when you said I love you? What was the setting,
Speaker 2: what was the scenario and what prompted it?
Speaker 6: It was post coitus and yeah, we were laying in
Speaker 6: bed and I just started crying and I said I
Speaker 6: love you. And this was like what like a week
Speaker 6: in questioning, I've been easy easy gal.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, that's amazing.
Speaker 4: So what is your age difference and has that had
Speaker 4: any kind of impact on your relationship?
Speaker 8: We are six six seven years, six and a half
Speaker 8: years right now for six years because he's turned Yeah,
Speaker 8: we're in like that six month grace period where we
Speaker 8: get to be six months apart or six years apart.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but in April we'll be seven years apart.
Speaker 4: That's so Samantha, you're older, right, I'm older. Yeah, So
Speaker 4: that's why we have the same thing. We're four and
Speaker 4: a half years, I'm older and he loves it. When
Speaker 4: there's a five year difference, because he can just somehow,
Speaker 4: it just feels like.
Speaker 3: He can just twist them.
Speaker 1: Samantha is coming up very soon.
Speaker 6: It's gonna be five years.
Speaker 4: Like in like a week, we're in the five year difference.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've lived for it.
Speaker 7: But I also think, don't they say that, like women
Speaker 7: live longer. So I'm like, maybe, like the age difference,
Speaker 7: like maybe it will like balance out and will like
Speaker 7: to die at the same time. Universe, please like not
Speaker 7: like from like a freak accident. I have to like
Speaker 7: talk to the universe about these.
Speaker 6: Things, since well I almost feel like a freak accident
Speaker 6: would be the easiest thing, like a year like ninety
Speaker 6: and a freak accident happens in your bother.
Speaker 5: Okay, so don't be like I want it to be
Speaker 5: like that later on in life, not.
Speaker 6: Like well yeah, way later on. Why last we've lived
Speaker 6: dark gray golden years turning dark real quick?
Speaker 2: Next question though, make suio it's not too dark. Okay,
Speaker 2: this one should be okay. Why did you want to
Speaker 2: be married? Why was it important to have that label
Speaker 2: actually of marriage and to make it official.
Speaker 7: It's fascinating because we've been raised in very different upbringings.
Speaker 7: I my parents have been together since the day they married.
Speaker 7: Both of my brothers married to their i mean their wives.
Speaker 7: They were like long time dating before they started their marriages,
Speaker 7: and so to me, I've always had an example of
Speaker 7: just marriage being this beautiful, amazing.
Speaker 5: Health the thing.
Speaker 7: Jacob has divorced parents, his mom's been married several times, and.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I had a very different perspective of marriage growing up,
Speaker 6: and that when I was like, before meeting Samantha and everything,
Speaker 6: my whole thing was like I'm not going to get married,
Speaker 6: and like that's not going to be my life. And yeah,
Speaker 6: it just it became this thing over the years of
Speaker 6: us dating where it was just like, of course, that's
Speaker 6: what we want to do. That is, of course the
Speaker 6: next step. And seeing her family being so rock solid
Speaker 6: really helped me understand the beauty of that.
Speaker 4: So you mentioned your family, Samantha, but I'm curious, did
Speaker 4: you all both have the support of your friends and
Speaker 4: your family. Did they support your relationship and ultimately your marriage.
Speaker 5: Yes, one thousand percent.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I've never felt from any aspect of our life
Speaker 7: that we weren't supported. The only time I feel like
Speaker 7: I actually feel like our relationship helped reiterate.
Speaker 5: Who the loving people in our lives were.
Speaker 7: Friendship wise, it always felt like we had our family support,
Speaker 7: but the people who like can't wrap their.
Speaker 5: Heads around our dynamic.
Speaker 7: Once we started being so vocal about just Jacob being
Speaker 7: gay and just talking about being in a mixed orientation relationship,
Speaker 7: we saw that some friends were like, well, this is
Speaker 7: making me feel conflicted about my own gay identity, and
Speaker 7: we're like, okay, Like they're just like, that's not like
Speaker 7: someone who's like a lifer.
Speaker 3: Like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you all on newlyweds now not through the whole
Speaker 2: first year of marriage, but how would you describe marriage
Speaker 2: so far? And has something changed in the relationship once
Speaker 2: it became official.
Speaker 6: Well, interesting, we've just been through probably one of the
Speaker 6: most insane months of our lives with the buyers. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and it's put some of our family members the homes
Speaker 6: have burned down.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like my brother's home burned down and then our in.
Speaker 6: Law or his in laws allasades and we've.
Speaker 7: Kind of like put our lives on hold to help them.
Speaker 6: Yeah. So we had basically six weeks into marriage we
Speaker 6: went into this thing where it was like it was
Speaker 6: almost like the universe, putting it to the test and
Speaker 6: saying like, how devoted are you to your family and
Speaker 6: devoted to being a team together and getting through a
Speaker 6: crazy ass time.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 7: So it's like crazy that we went from like the
Speaker 7: highest time in our life to like, yeah, this like
Speaker 7: dark time.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I put yeah, yeah, the Palisades was our community.
Speaker 6: I mean, I work for her brother, taking care of
Speaker 6: his kids, taking them to school. We spend our holidays
Speaker 6: there or spent our holidays there, and it's just like
Speaker 6: to see it all disappear is pretty pretty devastating, and
Speaker 6: it's like that was that was something that anchored us
Speaker 6: to where we live and made us feel a sense
Speaker 6: of community. And it wasn't just like a couple people
Speaker 6: lost their house. It was a whole you know, community.
Speaker 5: But we got through it together one thousand percent.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And I think it's interesting because I've been saying to
Speaker 7: people like, he doesn't feel any different than when we
Speaker 7: were dating, Like it feels like we've always been married.
Speaker 7: But it did feel on the day of the wedding
Speaker 7: like I felt like maybe like a spiritual shift a
Speaker 7: little bit where I was like, okay, like we are
Speaker 7: now in this I felt like our relationship was always
Speaker 7: predetermined in the stars, I don't think that. It's like
Speaker 7: I feel like it's just our fate to be together.
Speaker 5: So then when we were like making it.
Speaker 7: Like official by law and in the stars, it did
Speaker 7: kind of feel.
Speaker 5: Like okay, like I do feel like we have a
Speaker 5: little extra magic. Now.
Speaker 6: Well, the first time you said husband, oh yeah, that's weird.
Speaker 6: That's really weird. This is my husband rail now.
Speaker 3: Really, so I love that.
Speaker 4: How important is we've discussed and established that you all
Speaker 4: have a sex life, But how important is physical touch
Speaker 4: to you? Like holding hands and just you know, some
Speaker 4: people don't like it, some people aren't touching really, how
Speaker 4: are How do you all handle physical touch?
Speaker 7: I think it's very important, Like Jacob like helps reassure
Speaker 7: me about anything in life through physical touch.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and we all like sometimes I'll wake up in
Speaker 6: the morning and as we all do, like I guess
Speaker 6: up and make coffee and then we're like we just
Speaker 6: start working and then she'll be like, we haven't hugged
Speaker 6: or my kiss a hug right now, I'm just like warm,
Speaker 6: Like I get up and I'm like work and it's
Speaker 6: like two or he'll.
Speaker 5: Be like to be able to be like, can we
Speaker 5: have a hug right now? We're always checking in and
Speaker 5: being like we.
Speaker 7: Need hug each other right now, or it happens naturally,
Speaker 7: like of course, like if we're like watching a movie
Speaker 7: or something, or we're just like out and about, but
Speaker 7: we have to remind ourselves if we're working, we're like,
Speaker 7: we gotta we gotta check in right now because it'll
Speaker 7: help us be less crazed.
Speaker 2: So Samantha's must struggle every morning that she comes out
Speaker 2: of the bedroom just right to work. I tell her
Speaker 2: the first thing. The first time we engage in the morning,
Speaker 2: there are two laptops in between us. We're making eye
Speaker 2: contact with two laptops, and there we go. We're going
Speaker 2: at it. So that's a very important.
Speaker 4: We do try to like give each other a hug
Speaker 4: when we go up to warm up our coffee or whatever,
Speaker 4: our tea and then like hey, baby walking back.
Speaker 3: That is very important.
Speaker 7: But is there also amazing to know that you just
Speaker 7: like are so secure in your relationship that you can
Speaker 7: be like, oh, here we are, like we're working, and
Speaker 7: like just being next to one another right now is
Speaker 7: enough because we're comfortable enough with one another.
Speaker 5: Like I think that's there's some merit there as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to that point, next question, how often do
Speaker 2: you fight?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 5: You know, it's funny.
Speaker 6: When we were going through our period of insecurity, there
Speaker 6: was a lot of fighting. There was for the early
Speaker 6: years were plagued with a lot of that because I
Speaker 6: was not a verbal person. I say that my my
Speaker 6: like default is like a brooding James Dean, Like I
Speaker 6: just kind of go around being just like yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 6: I know what.
Speaker 3: That's like seeing James Dean over here too, yes, and it's.
Speaker 6: Just like it.
Speaker 7: Meanwhile, I have a degree in communications with a mind,
Speaker 7: so I'm like.
Speaker 5: Really, yeah exactly. So it's like I love talking about
Speaker 5: people and feelings.
Speaker 6: Let's talk about it. She's like Robin Williams are doing
Speaker 6: stand up. It's just like.
Speaker 2: We need to take a beat between jokes, please.
Speaker 7: Breath.
Speaker 5: I like, yeah, so see the sweat building up.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was That was a challenge the first few
Speaker 6: years because I was just like a wall and didn't
Speaker 6: want to didn't know how to verbalize, and had to
Speaker 6: do the therapy and had to do all the things
Speaker 6: that get you to a place where you can verbalize healthily.
Speaker 6: Now it's a lot less I mean, it's it's a
Speaker 6: lot less frequent, it's a lot less intense.
Speaker 7: We just we call it we have words with one another. Yeah,
Speaker 7: it's not like fighting, it's just we have words.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Sometimes.
Speaker 3: Now do you go to bed angry? Have you gone
Speaker 3: to bed angry?
Speaker 4: I know people always say that's a big advice, never
Speaker 4: go to bed angry.
Speaker 9: Right, We've gone to bed angry a couple times, But
Speaker 9: I feel like we do in our consciousness, like even
Speaker 9: if we are angry at one another, will still kiss.
Speaker 6: Good each other good night. Bill be Like we can
Speaker 6: go to.
Speaker 5: Bed angry but still acknowledge that we might not wake
Speaker 5: up next the next day, and we don't want.
Speaker 7: To like wake up without even if we're mad at
Speaker 7: one another, without having kissed one another before we went
Speaker 7: to sleep.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And it's just like you know that we've gotten
Speaker 6: a lot better about it. We've gotten a lot better
Speaker 6: about shortening the Her brother said to us, said to
Speaker 6: me before we got married, He's like, you know certain
Speaker 6: things do I feel like changed about my marriage was
Speaker 6: that you realize you just have to get over things
Speaker 6: quicker and like that this is this is who you're
Speaker 6: married to, and you've got to pick out, and I
Speaker 6: read this really interesting thing about this, like Buddhist philosophy
Speaker 6: that's called like the two arrows. Like you, you don't
Speaker 6: want to suffer both arrows, and the first arrow is
Speaker 6: the things you can avoid in life, So you can't
Speaker 6: avoid the conflict, you can't avoid the pains and the suffering.
Speaker 6: But the second arrow comes from you dwelling and from lingering,
Speaker 6: and that's the more painful one, is just sitting there
Speaker 6: and holding on to things. And that I'm really trying
Speaker 6: to not suffer the second arrow in life.
Speaker 8: And I make sure he suffers.
Speaker 3: Amazing advice. I have never heard it changed the.
Speaker 6: Way I think because I was like, you know that,
Speaker 6: it's it's so easy to just dwell and woe is
Speaker 6: me all the time.
Speaker 2: Well, next question here we'll go to some more practical
Speaker 2: things around the house that every couple has to deal with.
Speaker 2: How do you manage finances? Are you all a joint
Speaker 2: or separate account and separate money kind of folks or what?
Speaker 6: Well, this is we.
Speaker 5: Didn't get a prenup or anything.
Speaker 7: Our prenup is a verbal agree that if he sets up,
Speaker 7: I get.
Speaker 6: Everything that's solid.
Speaker 5: Okay, So now it's now it's on record.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 7: But we we haven't, like when it comes to finances,
Speaker 7: we just operate as one. We haven't like merged our
Speaker 7: accounts or anything, because it's some we're still like in
Speaker 7: the phase of like name changes everything, but when it
Speaker 7: comes to just that, we just yeah.
Speaker 6: We say what's mine is yours? Yeah? Ours? And I
Speaker 6: think we've been through like our early dating. I mean
Speaker 6: I literally had zero dollars when we first started dating,
Speaker 6: and I was just like there were times when I
Speaker 6: borrowed money from Samantha, or like we we've been both
Speaker 6: been through periods where it's like we've been with each
Speaker 6: other through so many ups and downs of that that
Speaker 6: it's just like we're in this together r actually every which.
Speaker 7: Way, and we just even like Jacob has a meeting
Speaker 7: or like if there's or if I have a meeting,
Speaker 7: if there's something involved where there's like some financial aspect
Speaker 7: of it, we're both physically there because we're like, this
Speaker 7: is our business, this is our life.
Speaker 5: We want to make sure that.
Speaker 6: And we love we are Hollywood. We love Hollywood, we
Speaker 6: love old Hollywood and all of that, but we're trying
Speaker 6: to like also reframe that idea that there's so much
Speaker 6: out here of this like you're out for yourself and
Speaker 6: like you're the only one. And you see these couples
Speaker 6: in this sort of toxic dynamic where they're like fight,
Speaker 6: they're clawing their own way up the ladder, and they're
Speaker 6: not working together as a team, and it's like, you're
Speaker 6: so much stronger when you're the power couple.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do we do with that?
Speaker 2: There's, to your point, this idea that folks do want
Speaker 2: to hold on to some level of independence and their identity.
Speaker 2: Think you're giving something up if you're creating a new unit,
Speaker 2: that means you've lost yourself.
Speaker 1: If you're forming a new group.
Speaker 2: I don't know that to your point, I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: subscribe to that, but I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: are starting to think that way now.
Speaker 4: I think so when you look back at our parents,
Speaker 4: I mean, it was teamwork. It was yeah one, it
Speaker 4: was one bank account, it was together, and that, you know,
Speaker 4: the separate mentality really can so you know, divisions, I
Speaker 4: totally get that. What about just all the mundane things
Speaker 4: that sometimes end up creating fights or disagreements with like
Speaker 4: splitting household chores and you.
Speaker 3: Know how how you manage all of that. Does what
Speaker 3: that I get an earth?
Speaker 4: I do know.
Speaker 5: Chores except for laundry. I don't cook.
Speaker 7: I don't really do much of the cleaning because I'm
Speaker 7: not good at it.
Speaker 5: And Jacob has let me.
Speaker 6: Eat the kitchen way in the kitchen and I I'm
Speaker 6: in there like, oh, but I love to cook. That's
Speaker 6: always been my thing. I love to cook. Samantha will
Speaker 6: find a recipe and be like, Okay, see if you
Speaker 6: can make this.
Speaker 7: Yeah, Like I'm very good about being like here's what
Speaker 7: we're eating, here's this healthy recipe.
Speaker 5: Oh, let's try this. I've heard about this new thing.
Speaker 5: Let's get this ingredient.
Speaker 7: So I'm very good about like helping give purpose in
Speaker 7: the kitchen, but I am not the purpose in fact,
Speaker 7: like the I don't know if like this was like
Speaker 7: my saving grace from the universe or it just was coincidence,
Speaker 7: but I once lit the kitchen on fire while cleaning,
Speaker 7: and so.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was like, this is great.
Speaker 5: So now this is showing that I am vanished.
Speaker 6: From the kitchen.
Speaker 2: Wait, somebody to have to ask, how did you do that?
Speaker 7: Okay, So during the pandemic, we were teaching a pod
Speaker 7: school up in Berkeley, California, for a neighborhood of.
Speaker 6: Kids and these Berkeley parents, everything has to be homemade,
Speaker 6: organic everything. So our cleaning fluid was like gasoline, flamml
Speaker 6: whatever they gave us in this thing with this stove
Speaker 6: that's like two hundred years old, with the pilot light
Speaker 6: exposed on the side from the from the burners, and
Speaker 6: she's spraying that stuff all over the top of the
Speaker 6: stove and it just ignites. Yeah, and the kids. I'm yelling.
Speaker 6: I'm like, get the kids out of here. I'm like,
Speaker 6: there's a fire. What is it called?
Speaker 5: I think we're sure.
Speaker 6: It's like no more.
Speaker 5: Yeah, He's like, you're just banned from the kitchen. I'm like, few, great.
Speaker 1: I had to ask.
Speaker 2: I had to ask, all, right, next question here? How
Speaker 2: much alone time or I should I say time away
Speaker 2: from each other?
Speaker 1: Do you feel you need if any?
Speaker 6: I think I don't know if we need it. I
Speaker 6: always feel it's refreshing sometimes, like there'll be days where
Speaker 6: we're like the last few weeks dealing with the fires
Speaker 6: and stuff, we were like together NonStop, and the last
Speaker 6: few days we've gotten back to life and like Samantha's
Speaker 6: done some work and gotten her hair done, and I
Speaker 6: feel like some of the space has been good, and
Speaker 6: like it just makes you when she comes home, it
Speaker 6: just makes you a little more excited to see each
Speaker 6: other as opposed to like dealing with hard stuff together
Speaker 6: all day.
Speaker 7: But I think like we don't really like do like
Speaker 7: we go out together. We don't have like separate lives
Speaker 7: where it's like I go hang out with girls.
Speaker 5: It's like we would rather do life together.
Speaker 6: We have mutual All of our friends are mutual, and
Speaker 6: that's just they know that, and that's our life and
Speaker 6: we love it. We'd prefer to be seeing the world
Speaker 6: through each other's eyes while we're hanging out. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that you're a unit. You come, You're a
Speaker 3: package healthy.
Speaker 5: Yes, and I miss someone when I'm not with him.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So Jacob, you said you've gone to therapy. Have you
Speaker 4: all gone to couples therapy? Have you ever seen an
Speaker 4: emperors together?
Speaker 5: Here's what's going to blow your mind.
Speaker 7: So yeah, okay, so we were we saw a couple's therapist,
Speaker 7: like during some of this confusion of like our relationship
Speaker 7: and we're like, you know, like this relationship sometimes confuses
Speaker 7: us because Jacob's gay, I'm straight. The therapist is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 7: I consider myself a straight woman, but I am married
Speaker 7: to a woman and she's the only woman I've ever
Speaker 7: been attracted to ever.
Speaker 5: But with the exception of her, I'm a straight woman.
Speaker 5: And we're like, wait a minute, there's more of us
Speaker 5: out there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and like this is like how like I know
Speaker 7: the universe just like, yeah, what's you where you need
Speaker 7: to be?
Speaker 3: Because you didn't know that that was the case ahead
Speaker 3: of time?
Speaker 6: No, no, yeah, it was just like one of those
Speaker 6: random zoom like teledoct title, Yeah exactly, and.
Speaker 5: We're telling was going through his healthcare provider.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm telling and it was just like it was
Speaker 6: a human moment, but it was I think that is
Speaker 6: part of what's aided us and being able to be
Speaker 6: where we're at and be so open the way we
Speaker 6: are is that having that kind of anchor us. And
Speaker 6: then we start talking about it more openly with people,
Speaker 6: and of course in theater, more people start coming to
Speaker 6: us and saying, you know, this is the dynamic we
Speaker 6: have in our relationship, and we're like, well, yeah, but
Speaker 6: I guess that right. You know, I've all seen that
Speaker 6: relationship We've all seen those couples where you're like that
Speaker 6: dude is gay and you just know it, and you're
Speaker 6: like they're married though, but like there's this elephant in
Speaker 6: the room and they don't and it's like acknowledge it
Speaker 6: and it'll feel so much better. Wow, I mean really, yeah.
Speaker 3: Wow, you are right.
Speaker 4: Everyone knows a couple where you're left, I know that
Speaker 4: man is gay, right, I've said.
Speaker 6: That, yes, and we and it's it's like this thing
Speaker 6: and then he feels this weird like I've seen it
Speaker 6: a lot where like then he'll like try to overcop
Speaker 6: and say by doing things that clearly are like overland masculine,
Speaker 6: and you're like coughing up, just like relax, but or
Speaker 6: it's just like all this stuff that that causes that
Speaker 6: turmoil in your brain as a person. And we've even
Speaker 6: had people come to us, like older gay men or
Speaker 6: older men who have been married to women and are like, look,
Speaker 6: I've been like sneaking around on my wife for thirty
Speaker 6: years with men and and she didn't know. And I'm like,
Speaker 6: oh my god, like and she didn't know, like and
Speaker 6: it's just like, first of all, how is she not
Speaker 6: understanding that you're gay, because like I look at you
Speaker 6: one time and I know you're gay, but like it's
Speaker 6: just like to save people that all of that is
Speaker 6: what is really important.
Speaker 2: Can I take a personal just help me with this?
Speaker 2: She does. She says this to me all the time. Well,
Speaker 2: he's obviously gay. Well, couples like you were described by
Speaker 2: there for a second, we all know. So my question
Speaker 2: is when those couples, when you see those couples, does
Speaker 2: she know he's gay?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: I always ask that question, is is everybody in on it?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I wonder that too. I feel like maybe there's
Speaker 6: there's that there's something she she knows in her heart
Speaker 6: but isn't saying in her brain.
Speaker 7: Or do we have like this extra like gaydar in
Speaker 7: our detection because we are like in the theater. Like
Speaker 7: for me, it's like I have my whole life been
Speaker 7: surrounded by gays. I don't know that that's like a
Speaker 7: non theater person's perspective in the world.
Speaker 5: I mean also, I grew up in southern California.
Speaker 7: So if you're not growing up there where you like,
Speaker 7: or in a state or a place where you have
Speaker 7: all of these examples around you at all time, given
Speaker 7: what you're doing for in your life. I don't know
Speaker 7: that everyone has that ability. I think some people are like, oh,
Speaker 7: I've never met a gay.
Speaker 6: Person before, so yeah. I mean I grew up in
Speaker 6: a very very like Christian My dad's side is very
Speaker 6: Christian conservative, and they they've been really lovely and very
Speaker 6: supportive through all of this, and it's been amazing. But
Speaker 6: I was afraid to talk to them about being gay,
Speaker 6: and they it shocked them, And I'm like, it's really
Speaker 6: shocking you, Like a kid who did theater and listened
Speaker 6: to share at five years old is like, you're really
Speaker 6: and they were like, yeah, I just thought that was
Speaker 6: like the music you like. So I do think some
Speaker 6: people have an obliviousness to it.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: But I think it's cool that you're out there saying
Speaker 4: it can exist, it can coexist. Yeah, And that's what's
Speaker 4: so cool, which I love so much about your story.
Speaker 4: Have you all in any of your fights, and this
Speaker 4: might have been earlier on, have you ever threatened to
Speaker 4: break up, to leave, to end things.
Speaker 3: Has it ever gotten to that within your relationship?
Speaker 8: Yes, many times, but I feel like it's used more
Speaker 8: as a weapon, as an argument weapon.
Speaker 5: It's ever a reality.
Speaker 6: There's never been a moment where I thought, yeah, this
Speaker 6: ever we're gonna be.
Speaker 7: It's more just like, let's be theatrical exactly.
Speaker 6: We get there, let's go there.
Speaker 4: It's so cool that you guys, it's probably bad in
Speaker 4: some ways that you're both dramatic and theatrical, but I like,
Speaker 4: I come from a whole family of theater directors and actors,
Speaker 4: and so, yes, I am dramatic and theatrical. And he's like,
Speaker 4: what the.
Speaker 2: Actor, Yes, I so, and I come from a family
Speaker 2: of guys that are a cool of a fan. It's
Speaker 2: just just chill. But to that point about threatening to
Speaker 2: walk out, I've said to her she has stopped at
Speaker 2: the door before because she'll threadn I'm leaving. I said,
Speaker 2: if you walk out that door, please know we're done
Speaker 2: and you're not coming back in that door. Don't don't
Speaker 2: threaten me. It's fine if you want to leave, but
Speaker 2: don't don't threaten me. I just don't play that thing.
Speaker 2: So it's funny to hear you all say you both
Speaker 2: like understood, I didn't really mean so you know what
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 4: When he said that to me, I'm like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 4: not going to leave because I knew he mentioned, I
Speaker 4: was like.
Speaker 3: Right, well, I mean I kind of was just kidding, but.
Speaker 6: You're good.
Speaker 4: Like what we want is for you to run after
Speaker 4: me and say don't leave. You know that's that's not
Speaker 4: going to go well with him. So I have learned
Speaker 4: not to threaten it.
Speaker 10: I haven't again, Like, yeah, I feel like once you
Speaker 10: threat like you threaten it, you're like, oh, I don't
Speaker 10: like how that felt, and I don't I won't do
Speaker 10: it again. But like part of it was like, why
Speaker 10: is someone not writing like a song for us in
Speaker 10: this moment where it should.
Speaker 6: Be, Like.
Speaker 2: Jacob, I didn't even get off the couch when she
Speaker 2: said it.
Speaker 7: The resurrect right now and score this moment please?
Speaker 2: All right, last a few things we want to hit
Speaker 2: you all with here.
Speaker 1: What would you both say?
Speaker 2: Biggest compromise you've had to make to make sure this
Speaker 2: relationship worked or was better?
Speaker 6: Biggest compromise for me was opening up verbally. That was
Speaker 6: a huge, huge wall that And it's not that I
Speaker 6: have a hard time communicating of you know, on a
Speaker 6: surface level with any any time, but when it came
Speaker 6: to really getting to the nitty gritty things, it took
Speaker 6: a lot of work and compromise.
Speaker 5: Wow, this is hard for me.
Speaker 7: But you I think that you didn't make a compromise
Speaker 7: there too, and like you really had to compromise, like
Speaker 7: your desire of wanting to be alone with your feelings
Speaker 7: to no, it's okay to feel feel things.
Speaker 6: It was greater than the Missouri compromise in eighteen twenty.
Speaker 6: Is that exasciar?
Speaker 7: Yes, Oh my gosh, he's really good with Like give
Speaker 7: him a random year of like what movie won the
Speaker 7: Academy Award and this.
Speaker 5: Year he'll know it. It's insane.
Speaker 1: We're not going to quism. We're not going to quim.
Speaker 1: We're not gonna quism.
Speaker 4: My biggest problem, Yeah, what was your biggest compromise, Samantha,
Speaker 4: My need.
Speaker 5: For like immediate resolve. Like I had to learn to
Speaker 5: be more patient with Jacob.
Speaker 7: And I'm not a patient person, I think by nature,
Speaker 7: so Jacob communication and like like just just needing to
Speaker 7: be patient with knowing that Jacob would eventually get where
Speaker 7: I needed him to be in terms of our communication.
Speaker 5: What I need from communication.
Speaker 6: We can rebuild him, we have the technology.
Speaker 7: But yeah, just like knowing that, you know, I have
Speaker 7: to be patient with him and he has to come
Speaker 7: to this conclusion because he has to like learn these
Speaker 7: tools and he has to want this for himself. I'm
Speaker 7: like immediate gratification, and so being patient with him and
Speaker 7: sacrificing or compromising my need for immediate gratification, I think
Speaker 7: was my biggest compromise.
Speaker 4: Totally good, all right, And I think the final question
Speaker 4: and you, yes, your newly weds, Yes you're in your
Speaker 4: first year of marriage, but you've been together for eight
Speaker 4: years through a lot of ups and downs. What would
Speaker 4: you say the key to your success has been? And
Speaker 4: what do you think it is about the two of
Speaker 4: you that will make this relationship be a forever one.
Speaker 6: Openness and honesty. Those two things keep it the motor running. Yeah,
Speaker 6: we have this.
Speaker 7: This is like our catchphrase and our relationship that we
Speaker 7: are brutally honest without being brutal.
Speaker 5: And I think we won't even.
Speaker 7: Tell each other a white lie. That's how how important
Speaker 7: it is to just be that transparent with one another.
Speaker 7: And we'll see like other couples or friends who are like, Okay,
Speaker 7: I'm just going to not tell my purchase to this thing,
Speaker 7: and I'm you know, like little things like that, and
Speaker 7: I'm like, I can never imagine not sharing everything with Jacob.
Speaker 7: I think the fact that we are so eager to
Speaker 7: share everything, the good, the bad, and we're so comfortable
Speaker 7: with being that open and honest.
Speaker 5: That's what's going to make us last forever.
Speaker 7: It's because I'm so excited to tell him every detail
Speaker 7: of my life. And I think when you have someone
Speaker 7: that you are so excited to share every aspect of
Speaker 7: your life with, that's like a true partner because you
Speaker 7: get to like be on this ride of life together,
Speaker 7: which is ultimately I feel like the essence of our
Speaker 7: love story is just finding the person that you want
Speaker 7: to do life with who makes life the most fun
Speaker 7: journey alongside.
Speaker 3: I mean literally, I'm about to turn RN. I love
Speaker 3: your story. You guys are so beautiful, So thank you.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having you. Guys were so fun. Guys are
Speaker 6: so fun. This is the first time we've ever right
Speaker 6: talked to another couple in this way, which is really
Speaker 6: cool because I feel like you guys can relate on
Speaker 6: the couple things and we can have We had got
Speaker 6: to have those moments that were like, yeah, it just
Speaker 6: just bonded in that way.
Speaker 2: But that connectivity is there, and that's what we were
Speaker 2: hoping to do with all these couples that you you
Speaker 2: all the four of us, So the two couples, we
Speaker 2: couldn't be more different in how we got together and
Speaker 2: how it happened, and where we're from and all these things.
Speaker 2: Almost every answer you all gave, there's something we could
Speaker 2: relate to or something we could pluck out and say, oh,
Speaker 2: we can apply that to us. So it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: what you look like and where you're from and all
Speaker 2: these things. Couples can relate. So that's bad to be
Speaker 2: able to do.
Speaker 6: And that's what we want to do with the our
Speaker 6: relationship dynamic. Isn't be like this super weird, trendy couple,
Speaker 6: like we're trying to show the world we're very pretty
Speaker 6: much like everybody else. This this dynamic is going on
Speaker 6: and it's there, and we've had people try to tell
Speaker 6: our story in this like over sensationalized way, and it's
Speaker 6: just it's like it's just.
Speaker 5: A love story really and it's pures essence. It's like
Speaker 5: we just want people to I feel like there's so
Speaker 5: many boxes when people.
Speaker 7: Are like looking for a mate that they're like, he
Speaker 7: must be rich, he must be handsome, he must have
Speaker 7: this you know, and it's like all of those things
Speaker 7: great if that's like how but their distractions on what
Speaker 7: you really should be looking for and you should be
Speaker 7: looking for how someone makes you feel. And so we're
Speaker 7: like hoping that more people just like pay attention to
Speaker 7: the feeling and like kind of start to ignore the
Speaker 7: noises and the you know, expectations, because I think that's
Speaker 7: more people will be in the right relationships if they
Speaker 7: just pay attention to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is so well said, such good advice for
Speaker 3: everyone listening. Thank you. That's all I can say. Thank you,
Speaker 3: and we love you and we are rooting for you.
Speaker 5: If you're ever in l A, please let us know.
Speaker 6: Let's do dinner.
Speaker 3: We would love to.
Speaker 4: Don't be surprised when we reach out.
Speaker 6: Okay, okay, please do