1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: My guest today is Mariola Yola, the Senior Fellow in Law, Economics, 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: and Technology at the Heritage Foundation and a professor at 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: Florida International University. He's also a frequent contributor to National Review, 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, and many others, and a friend of mine. 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: Hi, Mario, so nice to have you on. 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 3: Hi Carol, thanks for having me on. 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: You know, I associate you so closely with Florida, but 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: you're kind of a DC guy. 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: No am I I wrong about that? 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 3: Oh my god. It's like the worst thing you could 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 3: have said. 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: Is that an insult? But I just like heart feeling. 14 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 4: This is exactly the time of the year when I 15 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 4: start to get the District of Columbia effective disorder and 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 4: really wish that I was on the beach where I belong. 17 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: Come home. What are we doing? 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, well you might be seeing me down there sooner 19 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 3: than you think. 20 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: Okay, good good. So I've known you a long time. 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: I think of you as a very international affairs guy. 22 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: You're not Jewish, but you have what I would consider 23 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: a special relationship with Jews and with Israel. Would that 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: be a fair assessment. 25 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, it's you know, it's been a long time 26 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 4: in the making. I think maybe I'll write an article 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 4: about this journey, I guess one of these days. But 28 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 4: this is a subject that, you know, was when I 29 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 4: started out, was almost entirely an academic of academic interest 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 4: to me, I had never really I was in college. 31 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 3: I majored in. 32 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 4: European history at the University of Wisconsin, and which is 33 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 4: really a focus on Russian and German history. And so 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 4: of course anybody, any fair minded person who studies a 35 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 4: lot of Russian and German history is going to feel, 36 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 4: you know, it's going to come out of that experience 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:55,279 Speaker 4: feeling very. 38 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 3: Protective of Jewish people. 39 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 4: But this was really really just one of many sort 40 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 4: of strands of history that I always wanted to know 41 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 4: more and more about, like military history back to classical times. 42 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 4: And so I was building up my library of Jewish history. 43 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 4: And I actually remember picking up I used to I 44 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 4: was living in New York City. I remember picking up 45 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 4: at the strand of this wonderful History of Israel by 46 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 4: I think it's Howard Zachar's. 47 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: History of Israel. 48 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 4: And this was around the time that the Second Antifada 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 4: had just started, and so everybody in New York City, 50 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 4: of course, instantly had an opinion about this conflict. And 51 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 4: I didn't know what my opinion was, but I knew 52 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 4: that none of these other people who had very strong 53 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 4: opinions about it had any idea what they were talking about. 54 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 4: So I decided to start reading, and I spent the 55 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 4: summer of two thousand and one. I remember taking this 56 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 4: History of Israel to Tompkins Square and sitting time in 57 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 4: Tompkins Square, and then there and I remember reading the 58 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 4: September ninth. 59 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: Of two thousand and one. 60 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 4: I was reading about the Lebanon War, and I was 61 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 4: up to Subra and Shatila, and all of a sudden, 62 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 4: the book sucked me into its narrative. 63 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 2: It's not a great time to be a friend to 64 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: Jews right now. 65 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: Like if you tweet anything supportive of Israel or of 66 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: the Jewish community, you get comments like, oh, you're being 67 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: paid seven thousand dollars for this tweet, which I keep 68 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: waiting for that cash and it never hits my bank account. 69 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: I think it's probably the same for you. The money 70 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: just never arrives from Benjamin Yahoo. 71 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: Why do you do it? 72 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 4: Well, I've actually been promised honorary Israeli citizenship by the NAM. 73 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: Just that it's easier actually actually that you might get. 74 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 4: I have discovered that defending defending Jewish peoples it involves 75 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 4: a really astonishing amount of time arguing with Jewish people. 76 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: But anyway, that's. 77 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: Another Sorry about that, Yeah. 78 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 4: But no, that's another topic. But I will say this 79 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 4: is something that, you know, one of my preoccupations in 80 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 4: college was was, how did this you know this the 81 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 4: German people that the most literate society in the world, right, 82 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 4: the first society to achieve ninety five percent literacy, the 83 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 4: people who, you know, the society that gave us Bach 84 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 4: and Mozart and these wonderful philosophers and the greatest many 85 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: so many of the greatest scientists in history. How did 86 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 4: these people fall for such a primitive and savage and 87 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 4: sadistic cult as Nazism. And it just made me wonder, God, 88 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 4: if it can happen to the Germans, maybe it can. 89 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 4: Maybe it's something, and maybe it's Sti Leviathan in ourselves 90 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 4: right and and you know, but it still seemed for 91 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 4: most of my adult life it seems so far away, 92 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 4: right because the one thing we could all agree on 93 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 4: was that Nazism is bad. 94 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: Right. 95 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 2: It is an easy call, right. 96 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, easy call. 97 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 4: And you and now you know, for those of for 98 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 4: the people who were wondering how it was that Nazism 99 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 4: was able to seduce so many German university students and 100 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 4: musicians and chicken farmers. Now you're watching it all around you, right, 101 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 4: and you see what it is is that these victim 102 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 4: narratives are are very and they're very easy to manipulate. 103 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 4: And yeah, you know, you get into it and you 104 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 4: think free Palestine. Of course, well why shouldn't we free Palestine? 105 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 4: The Palestine Palestine's need to be free. And people don't 106 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 4: realize that if you actually study the history of this 107 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 4: whole thing, all of these words have like made up definitions. 108 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 3: Right. 109 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 4: The whole thing is like this propaganda psyop and deconstructing 110 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 4: that history is very very important, right because as you've 111 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 4: pointed out, as I've pointed out, one hundred years ago, 112 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 4: the word Palestinian was most likely being used to describe 113 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 4: a Jewish person, right, because Palestinian is somebody who lives 114 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 4: in Palestine. There's fifty nationalities in Palestine. I have an 115 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: Encyclopedia Britannica, which I also bought at the Strand from 116 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 4: nineteen eleven or something. There's a very long article on 117 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 4: Palestine in there, but the word Palestinian does not appear once, right, Right. 118 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: Did you always want to go into international affairs? 119 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: I did. 120 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 4: I always wanted to go into international affairs from when 121 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 4: I started reading started reading history. I mean it was 122 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 4: I had the conviction that, you know that what the 123 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 4: reason why World War two happened was that there was 124 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 4: something that gave a dictatorship more freedom of action, like, right, 125 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: I mean, Adolf Hitler could show up in the morning 126 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 4: say one thing to the industrialist and another thing to 127 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: the labor unions in the afternoon, and that and that 128 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 4: there was something about the response of the democracies as 129 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: the Nazis rose to power and as Germany armed for 130 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 4: war that was like very paralyzed, right, I mean very sluggish. 131 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 4: There were many points in time when it was like obvious, 132 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 4: what would happen if they didn't act to intervene. For example, 133 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 4: let's just take an example, to prevent the union of 134 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 4: Austria and Germany, which left you know, Czechoslovakia surrounded on 135 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 4: three sides it was obvious that if this union was 136 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 4: allowed to proceed, that the German Germany's ability to conquer 137 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 4: Europe would become somewhat unstoppable. 138 00:06:59,640 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: Right. 139 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 4: And yet because they were like so you know, enthralled 140 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 4: by self determination and the Wilson's fourteen points and all 141 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 4: of these like paper things, they and their pacifist publics, 142 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 4: they allowed themselves to be lulled into this. You know, 143 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 4: we call it appeasement in the West, but the French 144 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 4: have a better term for it, which is attantismo, which 145 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 4: is just not to appease, but to wait, right, just 146 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 4: wait for this thing to go away. And they were 147 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 4: just lulled into like waiting, waiting around while you know, 148 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 4: these these doubles armed for war, and they just filled 149 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 4: me with the conviction that in international relations we needed 150 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 4: to democracies to defend themselves, needed to have the capacity 151 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 4: for much faster action. 152 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 5: More coming up with Mariolola. 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Before making investment decisions, 178 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 5: you should carefully consider and review all risks involved the 179 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 5: Carol Marko, which show continues right after this. 180 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: You know, this is not a show about politics, but 181 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 1: I find you so interesting and I want to hear 182 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: what you have to say about this. I'm going to 183 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to limit it to just a couple of questions. 184 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: But it's not a hot time for the argument that 185 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: democracies need to stand together. For example, even you know, 186 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 1: pro Israel people will say, don't use the whole thing 187 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: about we have common values. You know, it's irrelevant, and 188 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: that there's this sense of like, because we had the 189 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: nation building exercise with Iraq and we tried to bring 190 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: democracy to these. 191 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 2: Hour blands, that it was a foolish. 192 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: Thing that we did, and therefore democracies have nothing in 193 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: common and we shouldn't necessarily stand together. 194 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 2: What do you say about that? 195 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 4: Well, this is I've been to Israel many times and 196 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 4: this is actually a topic of conversation that I have 197 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 4: with with israelis One thing I'll note is that, you know, 198 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 4: part of what produces such a potentially explosive situation in 199 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 4: the Middle East is almost like you know, how a 200 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 4: battery is like positive ions on one side of a 201 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 4: membrane and then negative ions on another. 202 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, you have this like grade. 203 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 4: The gradient formed by these opposite charges creates this enormous 204 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 4: potential energy. And it's somewhat the same in the Middle East, right, 205 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 4: because you have this like very successful flourishing society in 206 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 4: Israel and then these very moribundu on the other side, 207 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 4: and to some extent, the potential for conflict is always 208 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 4: going to be there as long as that you know, 209 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 4: that differential exists, right, And so I think that it's 210 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 4: one point that I like to make is that as 211 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 4: long as they're as long as Israel is not surrounded 212 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 4: by similarly flourishing societies, there's going to be a problem there. 213 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 4: And this is an important point to make to Israelis 214 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 4: because I feel like Israelis are, you know, the furthest 215 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 4: The most conservative Israeli politician is like in many ways 216 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 4: to the left of the Democratic Party when it comes 217 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 4: to a lot of economic regulation. 218 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: Well and other things too. 219 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: I think that most people in Israel I would describe 220 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: as just flat out anti war. 221 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, anti war, but also like kind of socialist right, 222 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 4: and I think that they don't realize how much the 223 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 4: much markets and property rights and freedom of association and 224 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 4: freedom of these basic democratic values that are traditional, well 225 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 4: at these pre progressive values from the founding of the 226 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 4: United States. This is really the answer for Israel and 227 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 4: for all the region right is just to have flourishing 228 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 4: societies in which people can and find their own way 229 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 4: and invent their own futures, and people can really provide 230 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 4: for their their children. 231 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: So it would have been Mario's Plan B if you 232 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: didn't go into international affairs. 233 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 4: Well, actually the plan B that I when I went 234 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 4: to law school. I remember from my first week in 235 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,599 Speaker 4: law school thinking to myself, you better have a Plan B, 236 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 4: because this could really have been a serious mistake. 237 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: Was it? 238 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 3: And I think was it a mistake? 239 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 4: I'm not ready to answer that question yet, asked me 240 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 4: in a decade, but I think this is probably most 241 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 4: law students are likely to feel in the first week 242 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 4: of law school like they may have made a major mistake. 243 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 4: I remember having a Plan B at the time, which 244 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 4: was I felt confident that with a like sonar device 245 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 4: I would have a competitive advantage over other fishermen in 246 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 4: Sri Lanka and I would just like move to Sri 247 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 4: Lanka and become like a successful That's plan B. 248 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 3: That was always that was always my plan B. 249 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: You might still do that. 250 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: Could that be something you do down the would become 251 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: the saunar fishermen of Sri Lanka. 252 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 4: It's possible. I've always wanted to do. I've always wanted 253 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 4: to get there. I haven't made it to the Indian 254 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 4: side of the Indian Ocean yet, but I hope too soon. 255 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: What are you most proud of in your life? 256 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 4: I mean, well, besides the obvious having a family and 257 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 4: my wonderful children and having very much married up. I 258 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 4: would say that there is I would say what am 259 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 4: I most proud of? Well, I think that I would 260 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 4: say that one of the things I'm most proud of 261 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 4: really is my friendship with Jewish people and my relationship 262 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: to Judaism. I've been I've had the opportunity to study 263 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 4: at Tikva institutes and these things. I'm Roman Catholic, of course, 264 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 4: as I think you mentioned, uh, and but I really 265 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 4: have come more and more, you know, I said at 266 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 4: the beginning, back around September eleventh, you know, the history 267 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 4: of Judaism and of Jewish people was like a very academic, 268 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 4: very interesting subject to me, was a very academic subject 269 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 4: I didn't really have any personal relationship to it, And 270 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 4: now over the years have made so many great friends 271 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 4: and you know, have just I just feel like, you know, 272 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 4: like Jewish people have really been a blessing to me 273 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 4: and are a blessing. 274 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 2: Not all of them, though I know some of our 275 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,239 Speaker 2: mutual friends. You know, they can't all be blessings. 276 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 4: Well, but I think in general, right, like the Jewish people. Right, 277 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 4: But but and I think, you know, we I think so, 278 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 4: And what have we learned from them? What have I 279 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 4: learned from them is to be really thoughtful, to really 280 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 4: try to think about things from other people's point of view, 281 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 4: and to be in many ways, like I think, very idealistic, right, 282 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 4: you know, to get back to politics. If you think 283 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 4: about the situation that we're having now with Israel, this 284 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: is a lot of Israeli's put a lot of hope 285 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 4: and a lot of idealism into the Oslo piece process, 286 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 4: right into the withdrawal from Gaza. They were time and 287 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 4: again willing to forgive people don't know this his story, right, 288 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 4: but this is you know, time and again they've responded 289 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 4: to these like unspeakable acts of cruelty. 290 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: Back to the Hypha Masic one hundred years ago, right. 291 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 4: Uh. And they've been somehow been able to just be 292 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 4: forgiving and uh and uh and be willing to let 293 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 4: bygones be bygones. 294 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: I don't know. 295 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 4: How yeah, and uh and uh and in the end, 296 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 4: you know, uh have really been uh uh And what 297 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 4: do they want to do? They just want to be 298 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 4: left alone to like study music, right, and and study 299 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 4: the law, and study study economics and study things and 300 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 4: create things. And I think that that is another thing 301 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,239 Speaker 4: that's really that's really worthy of emulation. 302 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 3: Right. 303 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 4: And if you think about about the Talmudic commentary, I mean, 304 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 4: I've never studied the Talmud, but I have seen the time. 305 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: I'm studying it right now, it is extremely boring and. 306 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: Well and and but what do we do when we 307 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 4: when we are thinking about text, right, and we're thinking 308 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 4: about editing a text or writing a text, is really 309 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 4: looking very carefully at a small piece of text and 310 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 4: kind of thinking about how, uh you know, all of. 311 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 3: The implications and all of the things that it could mean. Uh. 312 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 4: And this is like the right way to study law, right. 313 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 4: And it's just uh, it's just been just such a 314 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 4: you know, an inspiration to study right I mean, this 315 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 4: is like one of the cultures in the world where 316 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 4: like being a student gives you like the highest Yeah, 317 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 4: what is a rabbi? Rabbi, it's like a student, right, 318 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 4: It gives you like the highest social status possible is 319 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 4: not to be an athlete. 320 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: But to be a student. 321 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 4: Right, And I really, I really have I feel like 322 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 4: have tried to live up to that. 323 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: We're recording this a few days after the hostages came 324 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: home in Israel and the ceasefire began. 325 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: It's writing a little tenuous. 326 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: Hamas hasn't returned the bodies, and there's been some skirmishes 327 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: in Gaza. 328 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: Are you hopeful about the future of Israel there? Are 329 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: you hope hopeful about the whole region? 330 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 4: I am, in some ways more hopeful about Israel than 331 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 4: I am about a lot of democratic countries. 332 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 2: I understand that. 333 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, but but I will but I will say that 334 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 4: I think that you know, the world has gotten It's 335 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 4: just amazing to me and very unfortunate. The extent to 336 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 4: which like this mind virus of the PLO PLO propaganda, 337 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 4: right has I mean, you can't it's like they're every 338 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 4: word chagrins you. After a while, if you really understand, right, Like, 339 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 4: we're not talking about the occupied territories. The Palestinian Liberation 340 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 4: Organization already existed before any of these territories were occupied. 341 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 3: Right. 342 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 4: Occupation really just means that you have a Jewish neighbor. Right, 343 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 4: That's really what occupation means. And the whole thing is 344 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 4: like this big high falutin you know, Marxist version of 345 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 4: Juda and ryin policy. I say this because one of 346 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 4: the things that like Western governments have come to accept, 347 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 4: even like on a bipartisan basis in the United States, 348 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 4: even among friends of Israel. Besides this like two state 349 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 4: solutions stuff that has been like obviously a fantasy since 350 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 4: at least two thousand and five, is this idea that 351 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 4: like occupation is like the worst possible thing. Right, this 352 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 4: word occupation, I mean so many different things in the 353 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 4: real world. You know. At the end, I was saying 354 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 4: to a friend the other day that your you know, 355 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 4: the likelihood that a person supports Israel is like directly 356 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 4: proportional to how well they understand what happened. 357 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 3: In World War two. 358 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 4: Right, And one thing that I've been saying from the beginning, 359 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 4: you can go back and see I had an article 360 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 4: in National Review October. I think it was just days 361 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 4: after October seventh and twenty twenty three where I pointed out, 362 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 4: you know that when there was you know, civil war, 363 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 4: General Donaldson asked ulysses as Grant for ceasefire and what 364 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 4: were his terms? And ulysses as Grant said, unconditional surrender. 365 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 4: Those are the only terms I can be accepted, right, 366 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 4: I'm not going to negotiate terms with you. And obviously 367 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 4: in World War Two, there was a pact at the 368 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 4: very beginning, actually this was the pack that led to 369 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 4: the founding of the United Nations, was an agreement among 370 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 4: all the allies not to seek a separate peace with 371 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 4: the Nazis and to keep fighting until the unconditional surrender 372 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 4: of the Axis powers. Yeah, and then this was really 373 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 4: really little light really was illuminating for me. My first 374 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 4: job in the government was at the pen End in 375 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 4: what's called the Secretary's Hallway, which is the hallway in 376 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 4: the Pentagon, the Eisenhower Hallway, it's called, which is the 377 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 4: hallway in the Pentagon that the Secretary of Defense's office 378 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 4: is on. 379 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 3: It's called the Eisenhower Hallway. 380 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 4: And there are like little cases of different periods in 381 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 4: Eisenhower's life. 382 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 383 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 4: And one of these cases is from when Eisenhower was 384 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 4: Supreme Commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force, so that crossed 385 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 4: into Europe, into the continent of Europe on D Day, 386 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 4: and there is this placard that is Proclamation number one 387 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 4: of Schaefe of Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force in English 388 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 4: and German, that was like posted all over like light posts, 389 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 4: all over Germany. And the first thing that it said is, 390 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 4: you know, we come as conquerors. 391 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: We are. 392 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 4: All orders of the occupation authority will be obeyed immediately 393 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 4: and without question. We're going to completely extirpate this entire 394 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 4: society of Nazism. We're going to break and remake all 395 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 4: the institutions, the courts, the schools, and just uproot this 396 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 4: terrible ideology. And I think that until there and so 397 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 4: I think that all of this is a big, long 398 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 4: winded way of saying that, you know, It's what I 399 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 4: have been worried about all along, is that the only 400 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 4: alternative to a continuation of Hamas. I've thought from the 401 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 4: beginning that if Hamas is allowed to stand, is left 402 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 4: standing at the end of this conflict, then the conflict 403 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 4: must continue because there will never be coexistence with the Maas, 404 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 4: and it can only end in unconditional surrender. And so 405 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 4: the only alternative to Hamas rearming and Hamas executing people 406 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 4: in the streets and Hamas terrorizing everyone again and arming 407 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 4: to fight another day is a military occupation and a 408 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 4: military government, right, an extended period of military occupation. 409 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 3: But the problem. 410 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: Is would it right? 411 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 3: Right? 412 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 4: I mean, people would rather this is the thing that 413 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 4: university students don't understand. You would rather occupy, like, you know, 414 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 4: sat a moon of Saturn than occupy Gaza. 415 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: Right. Nobody in the world whs to occupy Gaza, not 416 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: even the Palestinians want to occupy Gaza, right uh? And 417 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 3: or at least govern a Gaza, right uh? 418 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 4: And And so unfortunately, I think that we've got a 419 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 4: situation where now we've I don't know the question back 420 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 4: to you, I mean, do you think that there's any 421 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 4: hope for leadership and administration in Gaza that's not by Hamas? 422 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 2: H I'm not very optimistic about that. 423 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: But I think that October seventh woke up the Israelis, 424 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: so I don't worry as much about them. 425 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 2: I think that Israel is not. 426 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: They're just not the country they were on October sixth, 427 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: and they are this like super peace loving people. And 428 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, it bothers me because sometimes I'm like, snap 429 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: out of it, like stop caring about your enemies so much. 430 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 2: And I'm talking about right wingers over there. The right 431 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 2: wingers are like. 432 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: We can't just destroy the Palestinian people. And you know 433 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: the fact that they're so concerned with what happens to 434 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: their enemies is it has its pluses. 435 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 3: And minus Israeli Israeli Israeli self. 436 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 4: This is one of the things that I would love 437 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 4: to be able to share with college students across America 438 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 4: is that one of the great perpetuating factors of this 439 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 4: conflict is Israeli self restraint right so much. 440 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 441 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know how they do it, because 442 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 4: I would not be as restraint, but not even just 443 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 4: say yeah. One thing that does give me a lot 444 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 4: of hope, though, is that, you know, it's already been 445 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 4: obvious for many years that within the Arab world, Hamas 446 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 4: and the Palestinian terrorists, the Arab terrorists, I don't even 447 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 4: like using the word Palestinian, the Arab terrorists of Palestine 448 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 4: are isolated in the Arab world for a long time. 449 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: Their main source of support has actually been a non 450 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 4: Arab state of Irani. 451 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and now it's like, yeah, I don't think they 452 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: have them anymore. 453 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 4: Right, And so now we've were for at least for 454 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 4: a while like these other you know, Hesbolo was such 455 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 4: a terrifying prospect, one hundred and fifty thousand missiles Israeli's 456 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 4: just wipe them out in a matter of ten days, right. 457 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: I know. 458 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so what you have now is emerging from 459 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 4: the war. I think that the Palestinian you know, the 460 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 4: Arab resistance movement, which means, by the way, for those 461 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 4: of you who think that this is really a resistance, 462 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 4: all this resistance really wants is just to get all 463 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 4: the Jews out of Palestine. Yeah, and I may use 464 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 4: whatever means necessary so resistance and scare quotes, but this 465 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 4: resistance has never maybe never been as isolated as it 466 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 4: is right now. And that is a very hopeful sign. 467 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 468 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Markowitz Show. 469 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: Give me a five year out. 470 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: Prediction can be about anything, the world, music, anything you want. 471 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 4: I believe that and I think Israel is likely to 472 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 4: be at the forefront of this. I think that the 473 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 4: I'm very hopeful about artificial intelligence and the. 474 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: I don't get that a lot on this show. I 475 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: got a lot of doom. 476 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, No, I think the doomers are Luddites. 477 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: Okay. 478 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 4: I think that the reason why I'm hopeful about it 479 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 4: is that, to use even Marxist terms, this is maybe 480 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 4: the greatest democratization of the means of economic production that 481 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 4: we've ever seen. 482 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I've become like a designer on there. I 483 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 2: can make logos, you. 484 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: Know, exactly right. 485 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 4: So I was just going to say that, you know, 486 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 4: when the PC first arose, remember this term. You might 487 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 4: be too young to remember, but there used to be 488 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 4: this thing called desktop publishing, which was like a fancy 489 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 4: way to describe, you know, what you could do with Microsoft. 490 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 3: Word or whatever. 491 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 4: We're now we are now suddenly in an age of 492 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 4: desktop film making. 493 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool, but. 494 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 4: We're now in an age of where anybody with a 495 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 4: computer is going to be able to uh spectacular works 496 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 4: of art and science and engineering. And this is going 497 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 4: to unleash competition that we've normally just associated with, like 498 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 4: corporations and things that only corporations can invent, Like big 499 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 4: corporations have the resources to invent, and suddenly everybody, anyone 500 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 4: can invent them, right, And so that democrat is a 501 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 4: putting in the hands of every single you know, man 502 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 4: and woman and sometimes even child in America, the children, Yeah, right, 503 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 4: resources that we've normally associated with big corporations is is 504 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 4: a really wonderful thing, and it's going to unleash a 505 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 4: new sort of age of competition and invention that I 506 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 4: think will be just as great a boon to human 507 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 4: progress as electricity was. 508 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 2: I love it. I love the optimist. That's really great. Well, 509 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 2: I have loved this conversation, Mario. 510 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: I think you are fantastic and I've loved getting to 511 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: know more about you on this episode. Leave us here 512 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: with your best tip for my listeners on how they 513 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: can improve their lives. 514 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 4: Read history books on your spare time, and make as 515 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 4: much spare time. 516 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: As you can. 517 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 2: I love that he is Mario Loyola. 518 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: Check him out at National Review, at Wall Street Journal, 519 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: and many many places. 520 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: He is just terrific. Follow him on x at Mario Loiola. 521 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Mario, Thank you, Carol