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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on IHEARK Radio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here, of course,

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Speaker 2: with Body Moven and Courtney Armstrong. Listen, everybody. It is Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: December twenty third, just two days before Christmas, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stack night of headlines. But we also have

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Speaker 2: a very special topic that we want to unpack because

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Speaker 2: this is the time of year that we want to

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Speaker 2: be sharing, we want to be hearing new ideas, and

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Speaker 2: there's no better person to be joining us than Michelle Dillon.

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Speaker 3: So a little backstory.

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Speaker 2: As we head into the holidays, we're spotlighting a specific

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Speaker 2: organization that gains something really meaningful to.

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Speaker 3: People who often get forgotten.

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Speaker 2: It's for many of those who are behind bars serving time.

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Speaker 2: Things like books aren't even readily available. So imagine you

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Speaker 2: want to improve your life, you want to do better,

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Speaker 2: you want to reform, but yet you don't have access

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Speaker 2: to even the basics.

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Speaker 3: Like a really great book.

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Speaker 2: So tonight, our very special guest who was joining us

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Speaker 2: from across the world. Quite frankly, you know it's nighttime here,

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Speaker 2: but basically four am at her time, is Michelle Dillon,

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Speaker 2: vice president of Books for Prisoners, a nonprofit that sends

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Speaker 2: free books to incarcerated people all across the country. And Michelle,

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Speaker 2: we're so happy to have you here, thank you for

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Speaker 2: getting up so early, and we're wishing you a very

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Speaker 2: pre happy holiday.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, welcome Michelle.

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Speaker 4: Thank you all very much for having me. Happy holidays

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Speaker 4: to you all as well. And I'm really excited to

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Speaker 4: be able to share this wonderful work with all of

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Speaker 4: you today.

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Speaker 2: And for listeners who may not know put Books to Prisoners,

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Speaker 2: you know, I get it, auence knows. I guess the

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Speaker 2: titles for itself. But how did you get into this

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Speaker 2: and how does this program work?

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Speaker 4: Yes, as you said, books to prisoners? Thankfully, our organization

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Speaker 4: name is fairly self explanatory. We are focused on sending

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Speaker 4: free reading materials to people who are incarcerated across the

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Speaker 4: United States. We started in nineteen seventy three, so we've

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Speaker 4: actually been around for more than fifty years now doing

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Speaker 4: the same mission. When we started, we started to serve

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Speaker 4: political prisoners, but we very quickly realized that the need

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Speaker 4: was so much greater than that population. You know, everybody

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Speaker 4: who was incarcerated needed access to books and magazines and

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Speaker 4: other reading materials. So we expanded to include anybody who

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Speaker 4: writes to make a request for books to us. And

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Speaker 4: we are one of several dozen groups around the country

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Speaker 4: that all share this mission of providing books to people

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Speaker 4: who are incarcerated in jails and prisons and immigration detention centers.

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Speaker 4: Some of us work nationally, like Books to Prisoners Seattle.

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Speaker 4: Others of us have a special focus, like LGBT Books

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Speaker 4: to Prisoners or Books to Women in Prisons. And I

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Speaker 4: got involved because at the time I was living in

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Speaker 4: Seattle getting my Master of Library and Information Science at

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Speaker 4: the University of Washington, and I'd always envisioned myself as

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Speaker 4: maybe a public librarian or an academic librarian, because I

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Speaker 4: had this focus on getting information to people who don't

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Speaker 4: necessarily have consistent access to it. Like in public librarians right,

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Speaker 4: they serve a lot of otherwise underserved people who wouldn't

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Speaker 4: be able to go to a bookstore and buy books,

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Speaker 4: or might have unstable high I came across Books to Prisoners,

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Speaker 4: and I realized that there was this entirely other level

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Speaker 4: of need for information. People who are in prisons don't

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Speaker 4: have access to the roots that we would think about.

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Speaker 4: They can't walk into a Barnes and Noble, they can't

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Speaker 4: get on the Internet even for the most part, and

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Speaker 4: definitely not unsupervised. So all of the information that they

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Speaker 4: receive is heavily gate kept and often very restricted. So

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Speaker 4: when I started volunteering for Books to Prisoners, and this

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Speaker 4: was back in twenty twelve, I just fell in love

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Speaker 4: with the organization and its mission and just this vast

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Speaker 4: need that I saw from the letters that we were receiving.

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Speaker 5: That's so remarkable in Michelle. I just on a personal level,

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Speaker 5: I thought really long and hard about going and getting

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Speaker 5: my degree in library science.

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Speaker 3: So I absolutely you would still be a great library

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Speaker 3: and Courtney read I think than anybody I know.

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Speaker 5: So I just want to say I remear what you do,

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Speaker 5: and even more so with this, I have a question

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Speaker 5: for you, So, why do you think this program resonates

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Speaker 5: sort of so deeply with people who are both inside

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Speaker 5: and outside of the prison system.

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Speaker 4: I think that this program resonates so much for the

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Speaker 4: same reason that you wanted to go and get your

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Speaker 4: library degree. I think a lot of us have had

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Speaker 4: this sort of personal experience with books and learning that

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Speaker 4: has stayed with us for our entire lives into this

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Speaker 4: transformative experience. And when we tell people that we send

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Speaker 4: books to people who are incarcerated, it just sort of

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Speaker 4: lights them up. I start thinking, oh, yeah, I remember

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Speaker 4: back to when I was a kid and I walked

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Speaker 4: into my public library and I found that one book

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Speaker 4: on the shelf. You know, the librarian helped guide my

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Speaker 4: interests and set my path for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 4: It's a very straightforward mission, right, we send books to

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Speaker 4: people who don't have books. Who can argue against that.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: Books are great, Books are fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, even hearing you talk about your mission, I somehow

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Speaker 2: feel a little oddly choked up.

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Speaker 3: Just now, I got covered head to toe in chills.

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Speaker 2: I think number one because of the purpose, and number

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Speaker 2: two imagine you're literally in a cell. The world is

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Speaker 2: very small when you've been incarcerated, and putting crime aside

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Speaker 2: and the reason for why you're there aside for a moment,

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Speaker 2: how small that world is. Right, So, how do you

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Speaker 2: imagine a bigger life. I was a literature major, and

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Speaker 2: frankly don't read nearly as much as I should because

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Speaker 2: growing up that was the way out of.

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Speaker 3: Just about anything.

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Speaker 2: Was a really good book sort of made the world

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Speaker 2: that may have felt small at the time really really big. Right,

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Speaker 2: So it's through other people's stories that we realize how.

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Speaker 3: Important your own story could be. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: For some reason, whatever you're saying right now just has

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Speaker 2: like hit me harder than I expected.

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Speaker 4: I really love to hear that, because again, we get

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Speaker 4: a lot of volunteers in at books to prisoners, and

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Speaker 4: for a lot of them, this might be their first contact,

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Speaker 4: like true contact with anybody who has been incarcerated is

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Speaker 4: getting these request letters and reading through them and reading

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Speaker 4: through what the conditions are like inside of prisons. Because

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Speaker 4: we don't have any format for people to request books

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Speaker 4: from us, so they can just write a letter, and

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Speaker 4: so the letters that we receive come in every format.

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Speaker 4: Some people write in and they say, hey, please send

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Speaker 4: me the biggest, thickest book that you have. You know,

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Speaker 4: if it's a thousand pages, the more the better. Because

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Speaker 4: I'm sitting here staring at my w twenty four hours

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Speaker 4: a day and I just want like a great high

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Speaker 4: fantasy book to help me escape this, or they'll write

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Speaker 4: in and they'll say, you know, I am looking for

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Speaker 4: books about my heritage. Do you have any books about

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Speaker 4: the Latin X experience in the United States or Black history,

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Speaker 4: things like that, things that help them connect with their

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Speaker 4: heritage and their roots or even just as you said,

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Speaker 4: expand their world views.

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Speaker 3: You are listening to True Crime tonight. I am Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 5: I am here as always, just two days before Christmas,

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Speaker 5: and we are so thrilled and honored to be joined

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Speaker 5: this evening. Excuse me with Michelle Dlon from Books to Prisoners,

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Speaker 5: and we're talking about the power of reading behind bars,

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Speaker 5: why a book can mean so much, it can mean

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Speaker 5: anything and everything, and especially during the holidays, we wanted

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Speaker 5: to sort of just raise awareness about this and if

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Speaker 5: you do have any thoughts, we want to hear from you,

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Speaker 5: so leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app Michelle. Earlier,

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Speaker 5: you mentioned how could anyone question or have a question

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Speaker 5: about how on its face how great this program is.

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Speaker 5: And obviously you are here in a room with super fans,

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Speaker 5: which I hope you are feeling in your.

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Speaker 3: Heart, but there are critics.

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Speaker 5: I would have to imagine who might question programs like this,

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Speaker 5: and how might you respond to people who say, oh,

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Speaker 5: people are incarcerated and resources shouldn't be taken away from,

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Speaker 5: say a preschool or something like that.

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Speaker 4: Do you ever hear that, Yeah, unfortunately, I do hear

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Speaker 4: that sometimes. I feel like the sentiments have been changing.

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Speaker 4: I've noticed a change from when I started in twenty

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Speaker 4: twelve until now in twenty twenty five, as people learn

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Speaker 4: more about the system of policing and incarceration in the

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Speaker 4: United States. I think that the sentiments about what justice

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Speaker 4: means is starting to transform. And so when people say

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Speaker 4: that to me, you know, why do people who are incarcerated,

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Speaker 4: Why should they get books? Why should they have these resources?

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Speaker 4: I like to talk about the scarcity mindset, and the

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Speaker 4: scarcity mindset is something that I think, unfortunately a lot

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Speaker 4: of us are influenced by. It means that we believe

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Speaker 4: that there is a set amount of resources out there

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Speaker 4: and we essentially need to triage and find out who

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Speaker 4: the most deserving. And I put that in very heavy

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Speaker 4: air quotes. People are who should receive those resources and

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Speaker 4: the rest of the people don't deserve again heavy air

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Speaker 4: quotes anything, and what often happens is that you pit

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Speaker 4: groups of people against each other. It becomes but what

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Speaker 4: about the veterans? What about the homeless people? And unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: people who are incarcerated often end up being at the

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Speaker 4: bottom of that hierarchy. They're a very easy group to

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Speaker 4: revile and to talk about their life experiences in terms

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Speaker 4: of they deserve only bad things to happen to them.

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Speaker 4: But at books to prisoners Seattle and other groups like ours,

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Speaker 4: that's not the framework and the mentality that we operate from.

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Speaker 4: We want to see the humanity in everybody, because a

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Speaker 4: person who's in prison, that's still a person, that's still

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Speaker 4: a part of our community, that's still one of our neighbors.

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Speaker 4: As much as the system tries to divide us and

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Speaker 4: say that those people over there, those are them, we're us.

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Speaker 4: We need to focus on us and we need to

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Speaker 4: not focus on them or actively despise them and get

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Speaker 4: behind a statement like that. I think that people who

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Speaker 4: are incarcerated deserve everything that we deserve in terms of

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Speaker 4: the types of resources like books that we can provide

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Speaker 4: to them. A book is such a simple gesture to

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Speaker 4: say hey, I see you you are not forgotten, and

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Speaker 4: you still deserve to be treated like a human being who,

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Speaker 4: for the most part, also might rejoin us on the

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Speaker 4: outside at a future point in time.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's the real piece of it, right Like,

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Speaker 2: at some point the idea is people reacclimate into society,

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Speaker 2: right body, I see you popping up right now. I

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Speaker 2: know this is so close to your heart. Sometimes we

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Speaker 2: get asked this too, and I know it's a hard

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Speaker 2: question to answer on its nose, but people will say,

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Speaker 2: what about the homeless shelter? You know, what about the nursery,

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Speaker 2: what about the veterans? They need books also when they

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Speaker 2: haven't committed a crime. And it's such a complicated it's

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Speaker 2: a complicated question.

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Speaker 3: And I think you just you know.

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Speaker 2: Answered that so well, how do you reacclimate into a

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Speaker 2: world when you have no access to it?

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Speaker 6: And I you know, and yeah, I've often said, you know,

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Speaker 6: we live in a civilized society, and this is how we,

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Speaker 6: as a civilized society, have decided to punish people for

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Speaker 6: bad behavior. It is up to us as a village,

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Speaker 6: you know, one might say, or as a society really

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Speaker 6: to take care of these people and rehabilitate them, right

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Speaker 6: because I think that should be the goal of prison

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Speaker 6: is rehabilitation, and you can't just throw somebody in a

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Speaker 6: cement cell and expect them to be completely fine when

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Speaker 6: they get released.

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Speaker 3: We have to take care of these people, right, that's

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Speaker 3: the thing.

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Speaker 6: We And then when they get out and they're you know,

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Speaker 6: they have no talent, they have no knowledge, they have

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Speaker 6: no understanding of what's been happening in the world. You know,

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Speaker 6: they're shell shocked, you know, and we have to take

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Speaker 6: care of them, if we if we truly value what

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Speaker 6: we have developed as a pun system, you know, we

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Speaker 6: have to be providing and taking care of these people

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Speaker 6: while they're under our care. And I think nourishment of

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Speaker 6: the mind is just as important as it is of

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Speaker 6: the body and soul, truly.

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Speaker 2: And without that, yeah, and without it, honestly, you're just

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Speaker 2: destined to repeat the same.

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Speaker 3: Crimes, right, right, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: The goal is to prevent a crime. And again, I

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Speaker 2: know this is a very layered thing. I think we're

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Speaker 2: talking about. Everyone should have access to books, right, whether

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Speaker 2: you are a veteran. It's a hard thing. Right, you

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Speaker 2: talk to somebody who's just had their daughter murdered, they

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Speaker 2: may feel, you know, we're are our priorities, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's a really clear distinction. If someone's meant to

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Speaker 2: re access the world, you know, rehabilitation is the only

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Speaker 2: way to a healthy ending. Otherwise we're just guaranteeing a

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Speaker 2: repeat of what got them there in the first place.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly right, Stephanie, and listen, We're going to continue

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Speaker 5: this discussion much more after the break, so please stick

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Speaker 5: with us, Listen. Books may be a gift, but not

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Speaker 5: all prisoners, not all prisons make it easy to get them.

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Speaker 5: And so after the break, Michelle is going to walk

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Speaker 5: us through some of the obstacles, some of the censorship

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Speaker 5: and some of the really surprising rules that can keep

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Speaker 5: reading materials out of.

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Speaker 3: The hands of inmates. Keep it here. True Crime Tonight,

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Speaker 3: we are talking true crime all the time. Welcome back

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Speaker 3: to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true.

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Speaker 2: Crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here just two

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Speaker 2: days before Christmas with Body Move In and Courtney Armstrong

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Speaker 2: my Holiday Gems, and listen, We're talking about a very

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Speaker 2: heavy topic, but a really important one because I know,

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Speaker 2: leading up to the holidays, we want to be actionable,

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Speaker 2: we want to make the world better, and Michelle Dylan

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Speaker 2: is doing just that. She is the vice president in

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Speaker 2: the brains behind Books to Prisoners, And since it's the

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Speaker 2: holiday season, we've been talking a lot about how meaningful

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Speaker 2: one single book can be for someone behind bars.

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Speaker 3: I mean, just think about that, you're.

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Speaker 2: Behind bars, you're paying for whatever air quotes sin you've committed,

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Speaker 2: or whatever crime I should say you've committed, and it's

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Speaker 2: the holidays, and you're feeling like the walls are probably

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Speaker 2: so closing in, and one book could mean the difference

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Speaker 2: between how I feel today and how I know I

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Speaker 2: can feel once I'm out of here. And what we're

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Speaker 2: learning through Michelle's work is that it is not that

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Speaker 2: easy to access a book.

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Speaker 3: A simple book.

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Speaker 2: Can really be the biggest mind opener anywhere. So Michelle,

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Speaker 2: thank you. We're so happy again that you're here. And again,

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Speaker 2: if anybody wants to jump in and join the combo,

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Speaker 2: leave us a talk back on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: So, Michelle, where should we go next? Court? Do you

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Speaker 3: want to give us a little more background?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd love to crow about your organization just a

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Speaker 5: little bit more, Michelle. So, even with obstacles, Books to

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Speaker 5: Prisoner it's a Seattle based nonprofit. It promotes literacy, self empowerment,

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Speaker 5: and compassion by sending free books to incarcerated people and

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Speaker 5: it's nationwide and Books to Prisoners mails out tens of

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Speaker 5: thousands of books every year and they are tailored. They

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Speaker 5: are tailored to personal requests, which I think is so beautiful.

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Speaker 5: And their goal is to break cycles of recidivism, encourage education,

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Speaker 5: and promote human connection. And these things help every single

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Speaker 5: person who live in our world. Michelle, what are some

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Speaker 5: of the obstacles to that prisoners may face when trying

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Speaker 5: to get access to books?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Where to start with this one? So, the biggest

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Speaker 4: issue that happen inside of prisons is that obviously it's

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Speaker 4: this warehouse where people are put and anything that comes

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Speaker 4: into the prison is going to be put through this

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Speaker 4: system of guard control and policies before it ever reaches

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Speaker 4: the person who it's intended to reach. So with books,

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Speaker 4: that means there's really only a few ways to get

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Speaker 4: a book inside of a prison. There's going to be

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Speaker 4: the mailroom if you mail in a book, and then

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Speaker 4: there's going to be a library, but neither of those

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Speaker 4: are going to be the same sort of situation. Between prisons.

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Speaker 4: There's no standard for the mail rooms, and there's no

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Speaker 4: standard for the library. What I mean by that is,

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Speaker 4: let's start with libraries. So libraries are often the last

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Speaker 4: budget item basically to be funded by a Department of correction,

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Speaker 4: not necessarily a priority unless there is special funding that's

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Speaker 4: allocated to it. So we have gotten reports of prison

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Speaker 4: libraries that have been closed for six months. People write

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Speaker 4: to us and talk about how, for example, there was

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Speaker 4: one in Texas where the roof flooded in the area

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Speaker 4: where the library was. So what did they do. They

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Speaker 4: just shut it down and they hadn't had access to

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Speaker 4: it all year, Or they don't have a trained librarian

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Speaker 4: on staff, and so they aren't able to keep access

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Speaker 4: to the library. And that means that people are more

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Speaker 4: or less cut off from having books. Because what you

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Speaker 4: have to really internalize is that life inside of prisons

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Speaker 4: is all about control. So you on the outside, I think,

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Speaker 4: are used to thinking about information as a more fluid

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Speaker 4: kind of object. If you have a question, you can

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Speaker 4: go onto Google and ask it. You can pop down

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Speaker 4: to your library. You know, at all hours of the day,

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Speaker 4: you can go to your friends and borrow a book

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Speaker 4: from their bookshelf. You can't do any of that inside

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Speaker 4: of a prison. Any of the information that you get

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Speaker 4: is going to be channeled through either the library setting,

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Speaker 4: which again is going to vary widely from facility to facility,

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Speaker 4: or is going to come in through the mailroom. And

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Speaker 4: this is where the real issues start to happen because

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Speaker 4: the mailroom is a place where there are a lot

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Speaker 4: of capricious policies that are implemented, that are not always

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Speaker 4: reviewed to see if they are going to serve the

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Speaker 4: prison population, and are often motivated by ulterior motives. So

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Speaker 4: we've been having this problem recently where there are new

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Speaker 4: policies bringing up at state Department of Corrections and at

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Speaker 4: the federal level that say that there can no longer

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Speaker 4: be used books sent in, only new books, So that

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Speaker 4: essentially prevents work from organizations like ours, And there's an

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Speaker 4: issue beyond that because think about the cost of a

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Speaker 4: new book twenty five dollars, thirty dollars. It's talking very expensive,

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Speaker 4: and you're talking about a group of people whose wages

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Speaker 4: are often pennies per hour work. So if you're going

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Speaker 4: to make a new policy that's access used books, truly,

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Speaker 4: think about what that means for a person who might

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Speaker 4: be earning one dollar a day and what that does

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Speaker 4: for their access to information? Why?

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Speaker 6: Why did they have to be Why are used books

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Speaker 6: being banned?

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Speaker 4: So the systems have been talking a lot recently about

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Speaker 4: drug contraband coming into prisons and they have opted to

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Speaker 4: scapegoat books and groups like ours that send in used books,

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Speaker 4: and they have implemented in quite a few locations these

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Speaker 4: drug scanning machines that we have found are not necessarily

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Speaker 4: the most accurate. In twenty twenty four, the New York

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Speaker 4: City Department of Investigation actually looked into a few of

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Speaker 4: these drug scanning devices and found that they have a

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Speaker 4: false positive rate of up to ninety one percent.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 4: Basically, what these systems are saying is there are people

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Speaker 4: out there who are allegedly dunking the books in a

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Speaker 4: liquid drug and then trying to mail them into people

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Speaker 4: who are incarcerated. But what the reports are finding is

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Speaker 4: that a lot of these allegations are actually not holding

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Speaker 4: up under investigation. But unfortunately, groups like ours become collateral

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Speaker 4: where this fear of contraband entering in through the mailroom

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Speaker 4: becomes a new policy, where suddenly no used books can

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Speaker 4: be provided, and that again, in a system where people

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Speaker 4: don't have consistent, easy access to our programs, that means

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Speaker 4: a sudden cessation of access to books altogether, or at

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Speaker 4: least a dramatic reduction of them.

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Speaker 6: This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're talking

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Speaker 6: true crime all the time. I'm Body Moven and I'm

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Speaker 6: here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. We are joined

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Speaker 6: this wonderful holiday season by Michelle Dlon and she's helping

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Speaker 6: us understand why something as simple as a book can

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Speaker 6: be so hard to get in a prison and how

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Speaker 6: meaningful it is for the people who live there. If

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Speaker 6: you have thoughts and we want to hear from you,

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Speaker 6: please or leave us a talkback on iHeartRadio app Michelle,

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Speaker 6: how common is context based censorship? Like certain topics or

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Speaker 6: authors or even genres, are those kinds of things being

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Speaker 6: censored and blocked?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, So we're talking about content based censorship, which is

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Speaker 4: a category that was defined by pen America in a

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Speaker 4: wonderful report that they put out in twenty nineteen. So basically,

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Speaker 4: there's two types of bands inside of prisons. There's the

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Speaker 4: bands that occur on the center of the books, so

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Speaker 4: the ones that affect used books. But then there's also

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Speaker 4: the content based censorship, meaning censorship that occurs because of

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Speaker 4: what is actually inside of the book. And it's one

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Speaker 4: of the biggest hurdles that groups like ours face because

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Speaker 4: there's no lists for materials that are approved or disapproved.

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Speaker 4: For the most part, it's completely a state by state decision,

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Speaker 4: and oftentimes a mailroom by mailroom decision about what materials

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Speaker 4: they're going to allow in for people to read and

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Speaker 4: what materials they will not.

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Speaker 5: And Michelle, when you break it down that way, who

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Speaker 5: is making these decisions because even earlier you mentioned that

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Speaker 5: many prisons don't have librarians who are staffed, So in

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Speaker 5: that instance, who's making this decision? Is it arbitrary?

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Speaker 4: It's a very arbitrary. Unfortunately, it usually comes down to

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Speaker 4: the one person who's working in the mailroom that day,

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Speaker 4: because again there's no regulations on these. So if there's

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Speaker 4: a guard in the mailroom and they decide that they

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Speaker 4: don't want to let a Spanish language dictionary in, for example,

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Speaker 4: which has happened. We've had rejections on things like foreign

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Speaker 4: language learning materials because the prison will say that it's

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Speaker 4: written in code, all right, So it could be that

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Speaker 4: it's just this one guy in the mailroom who either

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Speaker 4: has an ideological issue with the material that we're sending

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Speaker 4: in or might even have a beef with the person

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Speaker 4: who's on that mailing label and decides to get at

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Speaker 4: them by prohibiting access to this book. They can make

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Speaker 4: a unilateral decision to reject this book. And there's no

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Speaker 4: review committees in most states. There are in some like

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Speaker 4: we're very grateful that Washington and Colorado have review committees

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Speaker 4: that are set up by a minimum of three people,

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Speaker 4: one of whom must be a librarian to review any

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Speaker 4: attempted book rejections and make sure that they're not being

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Speaker 4: done for the wrong reasons, and to overturn book rejections

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Speaker 4: when appropriate. But even if you have a committee like that,

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Speaker 4: you don't even necessarily keep track of the books that

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Speaker 4: are written in other systems, which has been a big

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Speaker 4: hurdle for us. So we don't know what is prohibited

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Speaker 4: at any prison or in any state. So we're essentially

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Speaker 4: sending books out into the void, crossing our fingers, hoping

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Speaker 4: that they get in, hoping that whatever system we're sending

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Speaker 4: it into or whatever prison that we're sending it into

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Speaker 4: is going to be lenient that day, And in a

438
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 4: lot of these systems, they aren't even required to send

439
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 4: back a notice of rejection to us, So sometimes we

440
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 4: send out a book and we don't even know if

441
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 4: it's made it to the recipient or not, which is

442
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 4: always a stressful scenario. Because we're a very relatively low

443
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 4: income nonprofit. Right we're mostly donation based. Every package of

444
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 4: books that we send out costs US about five dollars,

445
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 4: and we send out about twelve thousand packages of books

446
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 4: every year, so if we have a book rejection, we're

447
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 4: talking about money that has been spent that we could

448
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 4: have used for another one of our incarcerated patrons. Where

449
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 4: every prison is different, so the issue is that within

450
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 4: different prisons, there's no standardization for how the systems are

451
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 4: tracking which books are being rejected. There's no standard system

452
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 4: for how they would have to notify us if a

453
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: book is rejected, and there's no standard system for any

454
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: review committee to make sure that these books are not

455
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 4: being rejected because again, a guard is just decided on

456
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 4: a whim that he doesn't like the sort of things

457
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 4: that are being sent in to be read by people

458
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: inside of the prison. And when I talk about content

459
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 4: based censorship, I mean the things that are censored are wild.

460
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: Our groups have gotten rejections of things that contain, for example,

461
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 4: maps of the Moon, with the rationale being that it

462
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 4: could facilitate an escape attempt. Same thing for Game of Thrones,

463
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: because there's a map of wester Ros in there, and

464
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 4: one of our groups has had a rejection notice because

465
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: that map of wester Ros could facilitate an escape attempt.

466
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 4: As I mentioned earlier, we have a lot of books

467
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 4: that are written in foreign languages. We have Sudoku books

468
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 4: and crossword puzzle books, and those often get flagged as

469
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 4: containing code. Oh, We've had encyclopedias of dog breeds rejected.

470
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 4: We've had art history books rejected because of nudity. Once

471
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 4: you start digging into this, the things that are rejected

472
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: are absolutely wild, and unfortunately they're often based on things

473
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 4: like what the prison considers to be quote unquote racially

474
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 4: based inflammat toy material, which in practice oftentimes means the

475
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 4: banning of books like the autobiography of Malcolm X and

476
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 4: other black history books.

477
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: Michelle, where should we go next with this? You've received

478
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: so many countless letters. Can you share what really captures

479
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: your heart or is something that hasn't had a specific

480
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: impact on you.

481
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is I'm thinking back to all of the

482
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: letters that I've read during my thirteen years of work

483
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: with this organization, and one of the ones that continues

484
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 4: to stick with me, even though I probably read it

485
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 4: ten years ago now is there was a person who

486
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 4: wrote into us and was asking for an American Sign

487
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 4: language dictionary. And the reason that he wanted this dictionary

488
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 4: is that he said that he had been incarcerated for

489
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 4: about seven eight years by that point, and he had

490
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 4: a son and his you know, the mother of his

491
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 4: child had written to him and said that his son

492
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 4: was starting to lose his hearing and when he was

493
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: going to be released in a few years, he wanted

494
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: to be sure that he had the skills to be

495
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 4: able to communicate with his son. Again, it just reminds

496
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 4: you that these are people. They have lives, they have families,

497
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 4: they have hopes, they have dreams. So I think a

498
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 4: lot about letters like that that we receive, either for

499
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 4: the materials or to say thank you for what they've received,

500
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 4: to talk about how these books have impacted them. You

501
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 4: know people write in Sometimes they write us poems, sometimes

502
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 4: they send us drawings, sometimes they send us little crafts

503
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 4: that they do. So I've got one of these letters

504
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 4: pulled up and hold on, here we go. It's just

505
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 4: addressed dear volunteers. Thank you for the books. I appreciate

506
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 4: the time and effort spent on selecting and packing these selections,

507
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 4: as well as the generosity of those that donate to

508
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 4: make these items free. Thank you for the skift. It

509
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 4: made my week, at the very minimum, made me feel

510
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 4: like a valued human being after many experiences intended to

511
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: me to make me feel less than. And inside of

512
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: this letter there were these two just adorable little oregon

513
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 4: me frogs oh that he had folded and taken the

514
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 4: time to enclose to send us as the symbol of thank.

515
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 3: You for everything that he had received. That's so special.

516
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, we when we get things like that, we actually

517
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 4: love to post them around our library space, all the drawings,

518
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 4: all the little arts and crafts.

519
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 6: How has being involved in this program shaped your understand

520
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 6: of the criminal justice system?

521
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 4: It has made me more stridently assured that the way

522
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 4: that we are doing things is wrong. Sure, Yeah, the

523
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 4: things that we are doing to the people, the ways

524
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 4: that we are again just locking them away, throwing away

525
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: the key, calling that justice. I don't think that's justice.

526
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 4: I don't think that's serving anybody. And again I'm glad

527
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 4: that the perspectives on this seem to be changing as

528
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 4: people get more awareness about the deprivations that are built

529
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 4: into the system, the exploitations that are built into the system.

530
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 4: And when I say that from the perspective of a

531
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 4: program like Books to Prisoners, I think about the financial

532
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: burdens that are put on to people, because we've gotten

533
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 4: rejection letters at Books to Prisoners where we try to

534
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: send in blank notebooks and the prison has responded to

535
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 4: us to say, no, we're not going to allow in

536
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 4: these blank notebooks because these notebooks are available for purchase

537
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 4: at commissary. Oh and that is just you know, one

538
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 4: small drop, and this vast pool of things that are

539
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 4: done to these people, like the financial exploitation is a

540
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 4: thing that I could definitely talk for hours about and

541
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 4: that just seeing this all building up over the years

542
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 4: that I've worked with it frustrates me, infuriates me, and

543
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 4: wants to make me spread the words so that we

544
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 4: can all work together to build a better system.

545
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 2: If in fact, rehimbilitation, if rehimbilitation is the key to

546
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: this right, which I think we could all agree, is

547
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: it is a complicated thing. So again, sliding scale of

548
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: crimes and sliding scale of what is fair. There is

549
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: no question that what is happening behind bars is based

550
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: on so many things. Do you have money for a lawyer?

551
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: Are you of the perfect color or a gender or race?

552
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 4: Like?

553
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 3: What is the thing that makes it so disproportionate?

554
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: And it's really hard for so many to survive and

555
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 2: hopefully start anew And what do you say to critics

556
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 2: that might say, if you've taken a life, if you've

557
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 2: murdered somebody.

558
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: You don't get a blank notebook? Is that? Is that

559
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 3: an answerable question?

560
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: I know that's an esoteric one and probably impossible, but

561
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 2: it's something that we gnaw on all day. We scratch

562
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: at this itch literally all day in our own jobs.

563
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: And it's a question I asked myself regularly because listen,

564
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 2: I believe that the system really needs improvement.

565
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: Is it completely broken? Of course not.

566
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 2: Justice will prevail and goodness will prevail, but it is

567
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: certainly not rehabilitating to the level that I think help

568
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: society as a whole right, So how can we help?

569
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 4: There are three main ways that we ask for support

570
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 4: in doing this work. We would love it if you

571
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 4: have a local books prisoners group and you want to

572
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 4: go in being inspired by what you've heard here today,

573
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: to volunteer to read some of these letters for yourself,

574
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 4: to help select books and send them out. Volunteering is

575
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: one of our number one asks because again, we get thousands,

576
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 4: tens of thousands of letters from people every year and

577
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 4: it probably takes us from start to finish a solid

578
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 4: half hour of work to get the package of books

579
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 4: back out the door. So we're talking about at least

580
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 4: six thousand hours of volunteer driven work. And that's just

581
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 4: for our group, and we're one of three dozen groups

582
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 4: scattered around the country who all receive letters, who all

583
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 4: need help to put the book donations on the shelves,

584
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 4: to read through the letters and get books to send

585
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 4: back to people, to go out into your communities and

586
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 4: do book drives to help us get more books to

587
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 4: help fulfill requests in the future. We also really need

588
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 4: just money. You know, each of these packages costs five

589
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 4: dollars between the wrapping materials and the shipping costs, and

590
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 4: when you're talking again at a scale of thousands of books,

591
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 4: any money that we can have that will help us

592
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 4: to serve more people or to send you know, more

593
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 4: books per package, because right now we have to think

594
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 4: about how many books we can realistically put into each package,

595
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 4: so that extra few dollars could mean the difference between

596
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 4: two books and three books.

597
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 3: That's great, that is great.

598
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 5: How many you said, I there's if there's a local center,

599
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 5: how many.

600
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 3: Do you know?

601
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 5: How many? How many places around the country, you.

602
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 4: Guys are There are two places that keep track of this,

603
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 4: because as I said, we're kind of always in flux.

604
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: With the groups being volunteer driven, it means that sometimes

605
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 4: people get over capacity and they have to go gray

606
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 4: for a little while. But there are two organizations who

607
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 4: are tracking this. One of them is Prison Book Program

608
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 4: operating out of Quincy, Massachusetts, and they have a map

609
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 4: up on their website that shows the locations of current

610
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 4: book programs. And the other one is the San Francisco

611
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 4: Public Library, who has an Expanding Access to Information for

612
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 4: Incarcerated People initiative that's running right now where they're actually

613
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 4: trying to train the next generation of people who are

614
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: going to be working in programs inside of prisons or

615
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 4: who are coordinating with, for example, public libraries to help

616
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 4: people who are re entering get access to the services

617
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 4: that they need. And so they also have a map

618
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 4: on their website that tracks the organizations who are currently

619
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 4: sharing this mission.

620
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 6: This is Your Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. I'm Boddy Moved

621
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 6: and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Stephanie Leidecker. We're

622
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 6: joined by Michelle Dylan from Books to Prisoners, and we're

623
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 6: talking about the impact books can have on people who

624
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 6: may feel alone in prison, especially during the holidays. Right

625
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 6: like around the holidays, people often, you know, talk about

626
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 6: connection and belonging. What does a book mean to someone

627
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 6: incarcerated this time of year.

628
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 4: Michelle, you have to understand that people who are incarcerated

629
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 4: don't get a lot of joy in their life necessarily.

630
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 4: They try to foster it inside of prison walls. You know,

631
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 4: there's a lot of joy that can happen when people

632
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 4: in prisons come together and make it. But they are

633
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 4: getting a lot of support from the outside necessarily, especially

634
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 4: if they don't have loved ones on the outside who

635
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 4: are routinely in contact with them. So we are able

636
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 4: to be this lifeline for people who would otherwise be

637
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 4: completely cut off. People who have been incarcerated for thirty years,

638
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 4: for example, have people who write to us every year

639
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: asking for books. We've maintained these relationships with them for

640
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: decades now, and we're so happy that we can be

641
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 4: a part of their lives in this sustained, regular kind

642
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 4: of way and just show up for them. And we

643
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 4: do get thank you letters that say exactly that, but

644
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 4: talk about how grateful they are for the support that

645
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: we provided over the years. I mean, one of the

646
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 4: most impactful letters too that I remember was from a

647
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 4: person in Texas who wrote to us saying that he

648
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: was scheduled for execution the next month and he was

649
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: just sending letters out to all of the people and

650
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 4: the organizations who had been there for him during his time.

651
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: Wow, that's it, I mean, that is it's kind of speechless.

652
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 3: I know, that's yeah, but that's.

653
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 6: He's kind of like a like, I don't know, he's

654
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 6: wrapping it up right, like.

655
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 5: Oh, that's so powerful and your organization is changing lives

656
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 5: one book in person at a time. Okay, I understand

657
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 5: that you have a little question or quiz for us.

658
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 4: Oh really, yes, I mean asked this question a lot,

659
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 4: and very few people ever have the correct answer. So

660
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 4: the question is very simple. What do you think the

661
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 4: most common requests made from incarcerated people? Two books to

662
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 4: prisoners might be. And again remember there's no format for

663
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 4: people to write in. They can request anything that they want.

664
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 4: What is the most popular request?

665
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to say this is body.

666
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 6: I'm going to say study materials for diplomas, like ged materials.

667
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 5: I'm split between the Bible or a dictionary.

668
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: Bible. The Bible is a good one, I would say.

669
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 3: I would say, for sure the Bible. We're not going

670
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 3: to go with J. E. G.

671
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 6: Ed materials like the sources, dictionaries, you know, those kinds

672
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 6: of things.

673
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 4: Those are all great guesses. But Courtney, you actually got

674
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: it right. It's a dictionary.

675
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: See this is why Courtney was meant. Also, yes, why

676
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 3: she meant you know? So five percent and stick.

677
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 4: Twenty five percent of our requests are for a dictionary,

678
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: which I always think really speaks to the level of

679
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 4: deprivation that people are experiencing inside of prison. How many

680
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 4: of us even have a dictionary on our shelves anymore?

681
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: I do?

682
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: Oh, all right, I have the one who my father

683
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 2: gave me when I graduated high school.

684
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 4: Oh, I love it all right, Well, step aside. Most

685
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 4: of us if we have a question, right, if we

686
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 4: need something to find, we'll just go to Google.

687
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:35,839
Speaker 1: Right.

688
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 4: We have so many other ways to find the information.

689
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 4: People who are in prison do not. So even though

690
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 4: they can ask for anything, what do they ask for?

691
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 4: They ask for a dictionary?

692
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 2: And by the way, maybe that's something that's access even prior, right,

693
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: Like maybe had they had all the answers or the information.

694
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: It's such a limiting world sometimes that everybody is brought

695
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: into the born into the life that has access or information.

696
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 2: Maybe that would prevent even books can even prevent being

697
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: incarcerated in the first place.

698
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 3: So Michael is you know is in motion? But man,

699
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: are you a cycle breaker at your core? Yeah?

700
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 6: Michelle Dylan from Books to Prisoners thank you for the

701
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 6: incredible work you do and your organization and for joining

702
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 6: us tonight.

703
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 3: If you would like.

704
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 6: To learn more or get involved, you can visit the

705
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 6: organization's website at Books two Prisoners dot net. As we

706
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 6: head into the holidays, we are super grateful for the

707
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 6: people and programs that bring connection hope and dignity to

708
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 6: those who need it most.

709
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 3: This is True Crime Tonight. We'll be right back.

710
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we

711
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 2: talk true crime all the time. So listen a lo

712
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: one of the cases that we've been covering for the

713
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: last couple of months, not only are they intense, but

714
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,240
Speaker 2: many of them involve families, and given that we're approaching

715
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 2: the holidays and it's that time of year where family

716
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 2: dynamics are really put to the test, we really wanted

717
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 2: to explore further and really look at toxic relationships and

718
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: toxic dynamics and why we subject ourselves to them or

719
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 2: let them continue slightly endlessly. So my dear friend Christine

720
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: from The Unlocked Mind has come because she's really the

721
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: expert at this and also has been teaching and encouraging

722
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: people to challenge collective consciousness, which is a very big deal,

723
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 2: by the way, and she's going to teach us about

724
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 2: that and also our subconscious beliefs around toxic family relationships

725
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: and kind of help us explore that, particularly because welcome

726
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 2: to the holidays, everybody, it's hard to escape.

727
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 3: Christine.

728
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you, guys. Hi Courtney, I am so passionate,

729
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 7: as you know, Stephanie, about collective consciousness and trying to

730
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 7: teach people to challenge their automatic thinking. And we don't

731
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 7: do that enough. So we just go into this autopilot

732
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 7: and we're believing something and we never go.

733
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 3: Why do I believe that? Or do I believe it?

734
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 7: One of the things I always ask people is to

735
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 7: ask themselves the question, if they weren't your family, would

736
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 7: they be your friend?

737
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 3: I mean, process that for a minute, right.

738
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: I was going to say, that's why sometimes we have

739
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: friends that are our chosen family in many ways.

740
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 7: Exactly, but we don't do that with our family. We

741
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 7: just go, well, there are our family. We have a

742
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 7: ton of beliefs around it. We all hear blood is

743
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 7: thicker than water or I actually wrote down a whole

744
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 7: list of them that I'm sure you guys can recite.

745
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 7: You only get one family. That's just how they are.

746
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 7: You'll regret it if you walk away if I say

747
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 7: or no, watch what happens. That's just the way they are.

748
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 7: Or your brain is like, uh huh, what did you

749
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 7: feel that how you engaged with me? Or that's how

750
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 7: they choose to show up. There's a nice or you

751
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 7: only get one family, or I only get one nervous

752
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 7: system that they did their best, or I'm allowed to

753
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,359
Speaker 7: respond to the impact not their intention, and I have

754
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 7: the whole list going.

755
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: It's so true because we do cover so many cases

756
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 2: that are so heavy right and specifically heavy family dynamics

757
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 2: that we see the most extreme versions of. You have

758
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 2: to wonder, at some point things had gone a little

759
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: sideways yesteryear, yet nobody put up a real boundary, and suddenly,

760
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: fast forward, the dynamic becomes even deeper and harder.

761
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 7: Well, I think people put up a boundary. They just

762
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 7: circumb to their subconscious which was like, well, it's our

763
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 7: child one more chance, or it's our mother one more chance.

764
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 7: And we can talk about addiction and mental health and

765
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 7: compassion doesn't mean access. I can have compassion, but that

766
00:47:58,880 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 7: doesn't mean you.

767
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 3: Have access to me.

768
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 7: And right now, we live in this amazing time where

769
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:09,440
Speaker 7: we have amazing drugs therapy clarity, where if you want help,

770
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 7: you will get help or somebody will find it and

771
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 7: make it available to you. So when people tell me, oh,

772
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 7: well they have an addiction or it's mental health, I

773
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 7: completely understand that and have compassion for that. However, If

774
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 7: that person chooses to use their resources and get the help,

775
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 7: then I can make a choice to keep you in

776
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 7: my life. If not, then it's my choice to create distance,

777
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 7: which also creates safety. These elevated cases don't just happen

778
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 7: because it's the first interaction, right right, I mean, you

779
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 7: guys are in it every day. This happens because this

780
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,520
Speaker 7: has been going on and on and on, and there

781
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 7: is no clear line between what I'll accept. And maybe

782
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 7: you don't talk to a person for ten years, well

783
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 7: that's much better than making someone angry for ten years,

784
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 7: because I just believe in putting positive out into the world.

785
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 7: So if you are around a person and you don't

786
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 7: feel like you can be the best version of yourself,

787
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 7: that's telling you something.

788
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 5: If you find yourself not being the best version of yourself,

789
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 5: is that when kind of it's time to check in

790
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 5: and say, okay, is it time for me to take

791
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,240
Speaker 5: a pause from this person? Or basically, how do people

792
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 5: know when to look at what you're saying?

793
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 7: Well, it's when someone creates stress, negativity, emotional harm, drain

794
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 7: your energy, disrespects the boundaries that you've set, and even

795
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 7: makes you feel like you're never good enough. That's my outline.

796
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 7: And the relationship leaves you feeling worse, not better, and

797
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 7: it's heavy, and you you think about the phone call

798
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 7: coming you see you see the name on your phone

799
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 7: and you're like.

800
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a red flag. Red flag.

801
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 7: It's so so paying attention to those signals. We aren't

802
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 7: going to change other people. This is very important, So

803
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 7: really take this in because we put so much effort

804
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 7: into trying to change people. You're not going to change anyone.

805
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 7: They get to be, however, they are zero judgment. And

806
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 7: by the way, if everyone could just do this, stop

807
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 7: judging people for how they're being and just honor who

808
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 7: they are and say that just doesn't work.

809
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 3: For me, right, I love that This is true crime.

810
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 5: Tonight we're on iHeartRadio Courtney Armstrong and here as always

811
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 5: with Stephanie Leidecker, and we're so excited to be talking

812
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,400
Speaker 5: with transformational expert Christine Colopy.

813
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 3: And we're talking about navigating.

814
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 5: Sort of our feelings and dealing with all of the

815
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 5: true crime that we do collectively, and also how to

816
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 5: put that into practice during the holidays. So I would

817
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 5: love to hear more about everything that you were saying.

818
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 5: That list that you read out Christine of Boundaries. Boy,

819
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 5: it was real black and white when you hear it,

820
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 5: but it all hit a bunch of nerves of Oh

821
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 5: that person who I feel less than every time we speak,

822
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 5: just acknowledging that it is okay to not subject yourself

823
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 5: because perhaps you share the last name, we.

824
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 7: Share genetics and history. That doesn't give you access to

825
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 7: who I am now. Like, think about your friend in

826
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 7: third grade. Just because you were in third grade with

827
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 7: them doesn't mean they get to be your friend now.

828
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes relationships are just for a season or for a reason.

829
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 3: Right.

830
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 2: I've heard that saying so many times. But how many

831
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: of us at some point have been in the car

832
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: driving to something, whether it's a work event or a

833
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,959
Speaker 2: family situation, and it's hard. You already have a little

834
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 2: bit of dread. Or you get in the car after

835
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 2: whatever it is, and you do you feel drained, that

836
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: you're exhausted, You feel like you weren't your best self.

837
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 3: Why did I say that? Oh I didn't mean that.

838
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 2: Or you just don't land correctly with this person because

839
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: you don't feel comfortable, you don't feel at ease, you

840
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 2: don't feel at peace. You know, allowing ourselves the ability

841
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 2: to say this doesn't work for me anymore. Regardless of

842
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 2: the history or regardless of this is what.

843
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 3: We do every year.

844
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 2: I know that sounds huge. I know, I'm so grateful

845
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: that this is not the family dynamic that I'm driving into.

846
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's everywhere.

847
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 7: It really plays with your mind because on a subconscious level,

848
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 7: you get that second voice, right, your secondary voice. That's it,

849
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 7: and it's your dad, it's your mom, it's your son,

850
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 7: and all of that. So if they weren't your family,

851
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 7: would they be your friend's question? It bypasses guilt, it

852
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 7: bypasses history, and it bypasses the story that we've been

853
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 7: handed again.

854
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: We're going to family events, people are blending families for

855
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 2: the first time. You know, there's co parenting happening. And somehow,

856
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 2: even those things that could be hard during any time

857
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 2: of year, it seems to get so exacerbated at the holidays.

858
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: You know, it's sometimes less about the eggnog and more

859
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 2: about just keeping your sanity.

860
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 7: I don't know about you, but birthdays are hard for

861
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 7: a lot of people. Yeah, And I always tell people

862
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 7: birthdays are hard because they only come once a year,

863
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 7: so we don't have a lot of opportunities to work

864
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 7: on that stuff other than that, once a year we

865
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 7: get that trigger. So it can take five ten years

866
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 7: to heal that birthday thing because you only have to

867
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 7: deal with it once a year. So it's the same

868
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 7: thing with a Christmas like we're not thrown into family

869
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 7: obligations or guilted or whatever it is. And then that's

870
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 7: where it's my busy season. It's always my busy but

871
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 7: it's really a busy season because I always tell people

872
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 7: look for volume. The first thing I say when I

873
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 7: get on a call is where's the volume? And that

874
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 7: means look for the things that are really loud to you,

875
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 7: the things that are getting your attention. So you do

876
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 7: want to turn your awareness up. I mean it is

877
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 7: partly being aware and being an observer. Not judging. Judgment

878
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 7: and observing are two different things. I'm just going to

879
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 7: stand back and observe how I feel, Observe what's happening,

880
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 7: Observe how people are talking to me or not talking

881
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 7: to me, care or not care that I'm here. There's

882
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 7: nothing that's personal. You're just observing so you can heal.

883
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 7: This is about collective consciousness changing, about people having VIP

884
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 7: tickets to your life just because they gave birth to you,

885
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 7: or someone having a vip tike your life just because

886
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 7: you gave birth to them. It's okay for you to say, hey, listen,

887
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 7: I want to give you an invitation of my life.

888
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 7: Let me tell you what that party looks like. It's

889
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 7: a party of kindness, celebration, happiness, support.

890
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: If you want to come.

891
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 7: To my party, you are invited. However, if that's a

892
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 7: party you don't want to come to, it's off you're uninvited.

893
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 7: This is a powerful, powerful question, Guys, what experience did

894
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 7: you have with me that makes you feel that way?

895
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 7: Because most of the time, eight out of ten times,

896
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 7: if you ask someone anyone that question, they realize they're like, oh,

897
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 7: no experience, I just feel this way, so they correct

898
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 7: they self correct. Now, if there are two other percent

899
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 7: of the time you did something great, let's talk about it.

900
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,759
Speaker 7: What experience did you have? Not what did I do?

901
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 7: But what experience did you have? Totally two different things.

902
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 7: Because if I didn't mean to step on your foot,

903
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 7: but I stepped on your foot, I still stepped on

904
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 7: your foot, it doesn't dismiss it because I didn't mean to. Right,

905
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 7: So again, I'm going to repeat that question because I

906
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 7: think it's so important. What experience did you have with

907
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 7: me that makes you feel that way? Pretty simple?

908
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 3: I love that so much.

909
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 5: I'm glad you said it twice because I do want

910
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 5: to hold on to that, and honestly, I want to

911
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 5: turn that mirror onto myself probably about four different times of.

912
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 3: A day, because you're saying.

913
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 5: That makes me think of all the times that I

914
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 5: walk into name a situation in life with you know,

915
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 5: expectations that are mine. So I think that's really interesting

916
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 5: both ways.

917
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 7: And it creates a safe space in the other person's

918
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 7: subconscious mind. You aren't speaking to that person, you're speaking

919
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 7: to all of that person's experiences.

920
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 5: Do we want to say anything more about this important

921
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 5: subject of the collective consciousness?

922
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 7: I want to say one more thing because I think

923
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 7: it's really important to know that long before we're conscious

924
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 7: enough to actually question anything, we're having experiences teach us

925
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 7: subconsciously what is true?

926
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 3: Think about that.

927
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 7: When I'm three, I'm not going, hey, I wonder what

928
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 7: the truth is about this? Right, We're being fed experiences

929
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 7: that other people are having as truth. So that's why

930
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 7: our subconscious is like, let's stay safe in the world

931
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,399
Speaker 7: and put this data in here so that we can

932
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 7: stay safe. The subconscious job is to keep us safe.

933
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 7: Now how it keeps us safe isn't so great, because

934
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 7: it keeps us safe based on our data that we

935
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 7: were given and so we together with that end collective consciousness.

936
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 7: Like let's just start questioning things.

937
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,439
Speaker 2: It's also fun just knowing that we're allowed to take

938
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 2: stock and kind of look within a little bit, you know,

939
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,360
Speaker 2: the perfect example, and then I'll zip it. But I

940
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: think I learned this from you. Christine is like, yeah,

941
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: wh when you look at your phone, whether this is

942
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 2: at home or at work or wherever, you know, we're

943
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: all attached to our phones. You know when that phone

944
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,399
Speaker 2: rings or you get the text, and yeah, you get

945
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: that thing in your heart of like, well, that is

946
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 2: such a tell. And like starting to be aware of

947
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 2: those who a trigger you or where you feel some

948
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: low key dread and perhaps it's unnecessary dread that you're

949
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 2: allowing into your life and being able to like slowly

950
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 2: sift through and make sure that the people that are

951
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: in constant access to you or the people that have

952
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 2: constant access to you. Do you imagine how great the

953
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: world is if the people in your immediate circle built

954
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 2: you up, It made you feel strong and capable in

955
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: the world.

956
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 7: Well, and I think, listen to your body. Do I

957
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 7: contract or expand? So if I say I have to

958
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 7: go to work, it just is heavy. If I say

959
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 7: I'm choosing to go to work, I'm expanding because your

960
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 7: subconscious mind is going, why are you choosing that? Because

961
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 7: I like a house and a car and food and

962
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 7: all the things, and it's like, yeah, go to work.

963
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 7: It's so different. So, yes, listen to your body. Is

964
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 7: it contracting or is it expanding? It's going to kind

965
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 7: of give you the cues. And I think Stephanie, you

966
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 7: said something like are the people around you making you

967
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 7: feel good? It really is your job to put yourself

968
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 7: around people that make you feel good. So again, we're

969
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 7: not changing anyone. It's not our mission. We're observing the

970
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 7: way we feel. And we're going wait, because love and

971
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 7: hate don't live together, faith and fear don't live together.

972
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 7: So I'm gonna have to choose a friend group, right, Like,

973
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 7: what friend group do I feel expansive in? And how

974
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 7: do I just stay in that friend group? But without

975
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 7: judgment or shame or blame. Let people be who they are,

976
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 7: and then choose to put yourself where you feel the

977
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 7: best version of yourself and you feel like you can

978
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 7: grow and well, all of a sudden, I'm growing and

979
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 7: thriving because I separated myself from that friend.

980
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 2: Group also the family member or friend that always makes

981
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 2: you whar your past right, Like, here's that like dirty

982
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,959
Speaker 2: old jacket that we're going to make you wear at

983
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: dinner because that's our like dynamic who hits on that

984
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: like fresh energy?

985
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 3: Fresh energy?

986
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 2: Well, I can't believe we're aut a time physically possible,

987
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 2: you know. Wishing you such an incredible holiday obviously, and

988
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 2: you too.

989
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 7: I was so excited that you guys invited me on

990
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 7: this show because if I could give some kind of

991
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 7: gift to people, it would be giving the gift of

992
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 7: just creating your future. It really is up to you.

993
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 7: If you're not changing it, you're choosing it.

994
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 3: Remember that, if you're not changing it, you're choosing it.

995
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 3: I love that.

996
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 5: Okay, twenty twenty six, We're booking the next time we speak,

997
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 5: because I'm going to need to really marinate on that.

998
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 3: Christine to thank you so much.

999
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me and just allowing

1000
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 7: me to share this with people before we end, I

1001
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 7: want to be very clear that this is only part

1002
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 7: one of this conversation. Here's my suggestion this year, get

1003
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 7: out of autopilot collective consciousness when you're going into the

1004
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 7: holidays and go in as an observer. Listen to the

1005
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 7: volume and the mind chatter. Notice what keeps coming up,

1006
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 7: because that's what wants to heal. I'm so excited to

1007
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 7: come back to this after the holidays.

1008
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 5: For anyone who wants to find Christine Coloby, our transformational

1009
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 5: expert extraordinaire and creator of the Unlocked Mind. Christine is

1010
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 5: at the Unlockedmind dot com and listen. Stick around because

1011
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 5: coming up you're going to meet some people behind True

1012
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 5: Crime Tonight and hear some fascinating stories about how they

1013
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 5: found their way into true crime and became part of

1014
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 5: this team. Stay with us true Crime Tonight.

1015
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

1016
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 2: crime all the time, and listen. As twenty twenty five

1017
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 2: finally winds down, we wanted to take a quick moment

1018
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: to reflect and give some gratitude and especially highlight the

1019
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: team who works so hard to bring this show to

1020
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 2: you every single night. This is a tight crew, and

1021
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 2: we work together in sync. We're small but mighty, and

1022
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 2: I have.

1023
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 3: The benefit of working with each of you every single.

1024
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 2: Day, and I think it's really helpful for anyone listening

1025
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 2: to have just a little bit more access to each

1026
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: of you individually. So where should we begin, Gids, Let's

1027
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 2: start with Gabe. Gabe basically runs so many things at

1028
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 2: KT Studios and also helped launch this show.

1029
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 3: He also helped pitch this project.

1030
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 2: His project was in the works for many, many years,

1031
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 2: so long time coming.

1032
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 3: And Gabe, who keeps.

1033
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 2: The trains on the tracks behind the scenes in every category.

1034
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 3: What do you think you're bah, Gab game.

1035
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 2: Cue the smoke machine, Gabe, you was there something about

1036
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five specifically that was either a thorn or

1037
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 2: something that was extraordinary.

1038
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 8: Shout out to Itza, my sister. A big goal of

1039
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 8: hers was to move out of our family home and

1040
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 8: this year we finally made it.

1041
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 3: Work, so as awesome. That was a big, big.

1042
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 8: Win for us. And you know, it only took two

1043
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 8: and a half years in the making, but that was

1044
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 8: big accomplishment on our end. And you know, it's kind

1045
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 8: of like a you can say the Three Musketeers, so

1046
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 8: we're a great trio. So that was a big, big thing, So.

1047
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 3: A huge trio.

1048
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 2: And I might add we say this about Gabe all

1049
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: the time Courtney and I met him. We hired him

1050
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 2: pretty instantly, even though there were many many applicants, but

1051
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: we didn't know Gabe until his first day.

1052
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 3: And man, we say this all the time.

1053
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: First of all, Gabe knows all and boy was he

1054
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,919
Speaker 2: raised great, so your parents should be so proud. And

1055
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 2: what he's also not saying is that he moved the

1056
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: sister to Hollywood and they all lived together.

1057
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 3: We met Gabe and it was love at first sight.

1058
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 2: Courtney runs a very tight ship, and she was like

1059
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: heading up all of the application process, and she interviewed

1060
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 2: so so many. I came in for round two, and

1061
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 2: one thing I can say is when court and I

1062
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,440
Speaker 2: agree on the person, it's always right yes, and.

1063
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 8: I'm forever in their debt.

1064
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 3: So and then we have Ava Kaplin, Ava Kaplin.

1065
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: I will say, was also, you know, studying abroad and

1066
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 2: living abroad and about to go get her masters and

1067
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:20,320
Speaker 2: kind of just wanted to feel it out for the

1068
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 2: summer and see if KT or just generally speaking, true

1069
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: crime was in your wheelhouse.

1070
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 3: And then she kicked the door down, keeps us all

1071
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: in line all day. Hi guys, Oh my god.

1072
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 9: I love seeing everyone's face. I'm so happy to be here.

1073
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,440
Speaker 9: This show completely.

1074
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 4: Changed my life.

1075
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 9: I was planning on moving to London and getting a

1076
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 9: master's degree in journalism, and now I live in Brooklinton

1077
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 9: and work on this show. So it's kind of awesome.

1078
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 9: But I wouldn't want it any other way. And yeah,

1079
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 9: twenty twenty five is then a crazy year. I spent

1080
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 9: the first half living in France and now here I am.

1081
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 9: I still have my I'm wearing my black turtleneck as

1082
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 9: like an homage to my I passed.

1083
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 3: Too, because we should be in Paris right now. I

1084
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 3: know we deserve it.

1085
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 9: I feel like, I don't know, twenty twenty five is

1086
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,880
Speaker 9: in an awesome year. I feel like I found such

1087
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 9: a home, such a vision for my future that I

1088
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 9: didn't have even like six months ago. I had no

1089
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 9: idea what I was going to do with my life.

1090
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 9: I didn't think I was going to be living in America.

1091
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 9: So this is kind of awesome and something just like

1092
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 9: about the show I was just thinking about, like in

1093
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 9: terms of every day when I'm researching these cases and

1094
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 9: like what am I learning and what am I getting

1095
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 9: out of it? And I have realized that, like my

1096
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 9: favorite part of True crime is I love like the

1097
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 9: legal stuff. Like my favorite stuff that we do is

1098
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 9: the trial watches and like learning about just how the

1099
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 9: legal system operates. I honestly feel like I'm in law

1100
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 9: school and like I could take the ELSA in the

1101
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 9: bar tomorrow and pass. At this point, probably could like today,

1102
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 9: like just a couple like thirty minutes ago, I was

1103
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 9: reading like California Criminal Penal Codes, tried to like suck

1104
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 9: some stuff out. So it's just been really fun to

1105
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 9: kind of learn that I have this interest that I

1106
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 9: didn't even know I had before. I know, I'm like,

1107
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 9: maybe I should go to law school.

1108
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 3: That's next for all of us. I'm gonna go. We

1109
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 3: can be roommates.

1110
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 9: Oh my god, that'd be so fun, Like we can

1111
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 9: be freshmen, live on the dorms, a reality show in

1112
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:32,560
Speaker 9: that for sure, be party pants, as Stephanie would say.

1113
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 3: That's my girl.

1114
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 2: And just so the structure everyone knows because we make

1115
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 2: the show at night, there's you know, a daytime team

1116
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 2: and Ava and then Whitney Galloway in Taha house and

1117
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: then Taha stays with us for the night, so we

1118
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: have sort of all hands on deck for every coast

1119
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're getting the most current and

1120
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 2: up to date news. And you guys do such a

1121
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 2: great job. It's a real line daily, so hats off.

1122
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 3: Thanks.

1123
01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 10: Guys love it and Eva does so much, so you

1124
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 10: are such a rock star. She puts so much together

1125
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 10: with all of these stories that every day, every detail,

1126
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 10: every day we have our for everyone listening, we have

1127
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 10: our meetings where we kind of go over what the

1128
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 10: show is going to be that night, and every single

1129
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 10: post has a different question that Ava then digs into

1130
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 10: and finds more. So she's a rock star. So I

1131
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 10: appreciate everything you do and she puts up with.

1132
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: Me and I email her Amien.

1133
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 2: And to that end, you know, it's really important to

1134
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 2: research from all angles. So you know, this is not

1135
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: a show that has a POV or a certain agenda

1136
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 2: by any means, So we want to make sure that

1137
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:37,439
Speaker 2: we're always getting the facts right. And to do that

1138
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,120
Speaker 2: it's not such a simple task.

1139
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 3: You have to sort of.

1140
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: Read the totality of everything that's out there on all

1141
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 2: sides of the conversation, so be able to pull that off.

1142
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,959
Speaker 2: And Whitney Galloway, who's probably the newest to the team,

1143
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:55,560
Speaker 2: but it feels like you ever you know, she joined

1144
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 2: and honestly has a compassion level and an understanding of

1145
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: sort of of what happens in the beehive very you know,

1146
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 2: uniquely because a she's been in one of our documentaries

1147
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 2: and also worked on that documentary and has brought a

1148
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 2: whole new layer and is now doing all the research

1149
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 2: for the whole country, making sure that we're not just

1150
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 2: covering the stories that are hitting the mainstream news media,

1151
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 2: but making sure that we're also touching on stories in

1152
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 2: all parts of the country, especially some of the ones

1153
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 2: that don't get as much coverage. So that's also a

1154
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 2: real initiative for the new year as well. Whitney tell

1155
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: us everything.

1156
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 11: Oh gosh, I get so nervous when I do these.

1157
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 11: This is why I don't speak on the podcast.

1158
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 3: Point you have the best voice.

1159
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 11: I mean, I'm just grateful to be here and grateful

1160
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 11: for the opportunity.

1161
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 4: Not enough.

1162
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 11: I always get emotional when I talk to you.

1163
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 3: By stop it.

1164
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 11: I cry on our phone calls. Maybe it's just my

1165
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 11: personality at this point. Yeah, I mean I always do

1166
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 11: a high and a low for the end of the year,

1167
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 11: so like, what are my high was? Honestly, and I'm

1168
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 11: not just saying this because like we're on with you guys,

1169
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 11: but like getting this job and having like it opened

1170
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 11: up so many opportunities for me to be.

1171
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 3: Like a better mom.

1172
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 11: I'm able to be there for my kids, and like

1173
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 11: my low obviously is my husband being deployed. So I'm

1174
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 11: grateful and so many ways to the you guys, and

1175
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 11: you guys have really made me feel like I'm part

1176
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 11: of a team, and I just I can't think you

1177
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 11: guys in the.

1178
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 2: We love you with you Whitneys actually being modest in

1179
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 2: terms of the reality of what she's experiencing right now

1180
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,879
Speaker 2: as a young mom, which is, you know, her incredible

1181
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 2: husband Kyle has been deployed and that could be up

1182
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 2: for a year, so.

1183
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 3: She's really taken it like such a chance.

1184
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 2: This just happened around Thanksgiving, so it's very very new,

1185
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: and just watching you from a distance navigate a really

1186
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,160
Speaker 2: tough situation has been really really inspiring.

1187
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 3: I might hide it.

1188
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,599
Speaker 11: Well, but I can't. But there's days I'm like, oh no.

1189
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 2: Of course, that's totally human and appropriate. Well, here's to

1190
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 2: you know, a safe return for your husband and a

1191
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 2: healthy return for your husband, and we're sending so much

1192
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 2: love his way.

1193
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1194
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 11: I appreciate you guys so much. I don't think I

1195
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 11: expressed it enough, but I do.

1196
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 3: You're a gem. You're a gem in a dream.

1197
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 2: And then we have Taha House in Taha back a

1198
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 2: thousand years I very job in television was working for Taha.

1199
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:33,839
Speaker 3: I was his intern for a hot minute.

1200
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 2: And when this show came to be, Taha was always

1201
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 2: in the mind of like the type of producer we

1202
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 2: would be looking for, really, like somebody with an A

1203
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,839
Speaker 2: plus plus personality who lives and breathes the news, who

1204
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily even have to be a true crime officionado,

1205
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 2: but somebody who really just watches what's happening in real

1206
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 2: time and he has the greatest manner as you guys

1207
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 2: all know of any body alive. I used to imitate

1208
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 2: tahyzac oh shoot. I would do these Taha impressions for

1209
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 2: this infamous person that nobody had ever met before. And

1210
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:12,040
Speaker 2: just by coincidence, when we finally got the green light

1211
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 2: for this show to happen, Taha just happened to reach

1212
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 2: out and was like, oh yeah, after decades of not

1213
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 2: being available, I am if you have something like.

1214
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 3: I'm a candid camera right now, like you're in the vision.

1215
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I have the perfect scenario for you that

1216
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 2: was for you.

1217
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 12: And not only is he so good, you know, he's

1218
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 12: so patient and kind, just like you said stuff, he's

1219
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 12: got a great manner, but he's so organized.

1220
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:41,040
Speaker 1: You know.

1221
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 12: He kind of is like the rudder of the ship.

1222
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 12: He steers us all right in the right direction.

1223
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 3: Now you're.

1224
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 12: Like, I'm I mean, I've I've worked with a lot

1225
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 12: of producers and Tah, you you're incredible.

1226
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 10: Well, I have an incredible team to work with. So

1227
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 10: you guys are brilliant and you guys, I mean, like

1228
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 10: Aba was saying earlier, everyone throws out these great stories.

1229
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 3: So you make the job easy for me.

1230
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 10: But going back to what Stephanie said earlier, it was

1231
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 10: funny when you first mentioned the job and talked to

1232
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 10: me about it, and you're like, I'm going to tell

1233
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 10: you honestly, it's going to be a crazy job. It's

1234
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:20,719
Speaker 10: going to be wild, but it's going to be fun.

1235
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 10: And guess what it is. All of those things like

1236
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 10: every day it's crazy wild, but.

1237
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 3: It's such a blast.

1238
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 10: We end the show and I'm like, this was so

1239
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,799
Speaker 10: much fun. And to your point, earlier, I was concerned

1240
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 10: because I didn't know true crime the way I thought,

1241
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 10: My gosh, these hosts know every detail about Brian Coberger

1242
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 10: and Undy.

1243
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 3: I don't know them.

1244
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 10: But positive thinking Stephanie, she's always the most positive person,

1245
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 10: like she can find the good and everything. She said

1246
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 10: that's an asset because there are listeners out there who

1247
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,759
Speaker 10: may not know everything about Ted Bundy or Brian Coburger.

1248
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 10: You can be that person that we can springboard and

1249
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 10: bounce those ideas off of, so it can been so

1250
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,799
Speaker 10: such a wonderful fit. And you guys, I mean literally,

1251
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,759
Speaker 10: I know we all say it, but I really truly

1252
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 10: mean it. Every night when it ends, I'm like, that

1253
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 10: was so much fun. It doesn't really feel like work

1254
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 10: when we're doing the show live because we're all having

1255
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 10: such a good time. And I'm that's if we're talking

1256
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 10: our highs and lows. That has truly been my high

1257
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 10: this year that I got to meet all of you

1258
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 10: this year, work with you, And I'm going to end

1259
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 10: on that because I truly love working with you guys.

1260
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 10: You guys are so much fun, and I've learned more

1261
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,040
Speaker 10: about true crime than I ever thought I would, even now.

1262
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 2: You're an expert. Because again, not to get too into

1263
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 2: how the sausage is made, but it is helpful to

1264
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 2: have somebody who says, what does that mean exactly? Sometimes

1265
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 2: really assumptions, you know, or we start talking and get

1266
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 2: a little loss in the sauce and details, and somebody

1267
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 2: listening for the first time might not all know what

1268
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 2: we're talking about. So it's helpful to have somebody to

1269
01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 2: keep us a little bit on track at the bare minimum.

1270
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 2: And Taha, just like Whitney, just like Abe, just like Ava,

1271
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 2: they are a giggle even though we're talking about difficult things.

1272
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 2: These are people People ask me this all the time.

1273
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:06,360
Speaker 2: Do you guys really love each other? And I know

1274
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 2: that's a loaded question, but I can just speak all

1275
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,559
Speaker 2: of us. Yes, is the answer, because you know it's

1276
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 2: a tight team, and it is. Every day is another

1277
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 2: set of situations or problems or you know, how often

1278
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 2: have we started the show and had to throw away

1279
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 2: everything we thought we were going to.

1280
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:26,879
Speaker 3: Do news or whatever?

1281
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 2: And you keep it so fun and I think everybody

1282
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,679
Speaker 2: keeps it light despite the dark that we're talking about.

1283
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 10: Yeah, look, everybody's getting everyone emotional.

1284
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:42,679
Speaker 3: Now help it. I can't choose between Courtney and Body,

1285
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:43,559
Speaker 3: who wants to go first.

1286
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 9: I just want to say one more thing about Taha.

1287
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 9: When I was working from my childhood home this summer,

1288
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 9: my mom would always overhear my conversations on the phone

1289
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 9: with Taha every morning, and every time we hung up,

1290
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:57,000
Speaker 9: she would say to me, is tall have the nicest

1291
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 9: personal lives?

1292
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 3: Every time I would be like yes. At one time

1293
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,799
Speaker 3: she asked me, is he always like that? Or is

1294
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 3: he fake? And I was like, no, he's always like that.

1295
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 9: And so now it's like our new standard for like

1296
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 9: how nice someone is. It's like, are they as nice

1297
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 9: as Tahamo? And the answer is always no, Like the

1298
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 9: bar has been set.

1299
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 3: The bar has been set fake because he was that

1300
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 3: way always. I can say this.

1301
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:25,320
Speaker 1: Is so funny.

1302
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, and my even with I like raise my voice

1303
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 10: about something, I feel like, oh that sounded so mean,

1304
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 10: and everyone's like all we did was like say like,

1305
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 10: can you lower your audio?

1306
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:35,799
Speaker 3: Like anyway? But pulling up the story.

1307
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:38,479
Speaker 10: But all right, it's between Courtney and Body because I'm

1308
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 10: dying to hear what they have to say.

1309
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 3: I will be brief, but we'll go around just in

1310
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 3: what I believe was the order.

1311
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 5: Of Gabe, just to underline and echo everything that Stephanie

1312
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 5: said and your dependability and you're just capacity to be

1313
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 5: so responsible and responsive and thorough and get everything done

1314
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:05,639
Speaker 5: until it's done, which is a quality that is hugely valued.

1315
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 5: So you're awesome, beyond awesome, and thank you, thank you. Lately,

1316
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:13,719
Speaker 5: it's by the way, I want to give a shout

1317
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 5: out to Gabe for late. I would get done with

1318
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,679
Speaker 5: the show certain times, start some work and Gabe would

1319
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 5: finish it. So you're really a super trooper. And then Eva, Yeah,

1320
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 5: your tenacity. You jumped in both feet, guns blazing. I

1321
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 5: freaking loved it and love it now. You are such

1322
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 5: like a powerhouse and grab it. It's a really great

1323
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 5: way to be. And you do a really hard job thoroughly.

1324
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 5: You were out like one day or two days, and

1325
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 5: I tried to help do your job and it was

1326
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 5: a really tough it's a lot.

1327
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, together couldn't really do it exactly.

1328
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 3: It was like, I don't know, thank you. That means

1329
01:15:59,200 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 3: a lot to me.

1330
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.

1331
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 3: Listen, stick around after the commercial break. We have much

1332
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 3: much more with the whole team. Stay with us True

1333
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:07,640
Speaker 3: Crimes Night.

1334
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1335
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 2: True crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here just

1336
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:28,959
Speaker 2: two days before Christmas with Body Move In and Courtney

1337
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 2: Armstrong my holiday gems. We wanted to take a quick

1338
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:37,240
Speaker 2: moment to reflect and give some gratitude and especially highlight

1339
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 2: the team who works so hard to bring this show

1340
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:43,799
Speaker 2: to you every single night, and we work together in sync.

1341
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 3: We're small but mighty, It's true.

1342
01:16:47,720 --> 01:16:52,080
Speaker 5: And then Whitney everything, Oh my gosh, from that first

1343
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 5: day when you didn't know who these two wirdos were,

1344
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 5: when Stephanie and I came upon you, and you have

1345
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:02,880
Speaker 5: just been such a a bright and tender and lovely spot.

1346
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:06,320
Speaker 5: And also having the luxury of being able to work

1347
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:10,760
Speaker 5: with you and see how your strive for excellence is

1348
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 5: really admirable and I think gets people really far.

1349
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 3: So you have that in spades and it's awesome.

1350
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 2: We said when we met Whitney Galloway, we're going to

1351
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:21,920
Speaker 2: know her forever.

1352
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 11: You know, I actually real quick, I was literally thinking

1353
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 11: of me sitting on the swing and you guys pulling

1354
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 11: up and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe

1355
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 11: I'm meeting these two strangers. And now it's like, this

1356
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:34,679
Speaker 11: is crazy.

1357
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 2: And just to add some context to that, there was

1358
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 2: a documentary that we were working on. We were hoping

1359
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 2: that Whitney would participate because she was very close to

1360
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 2: the case. And when we do that, you know, you

1361
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 2: go to the location and introduce yourself. But like, again,

1362
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 2: you have perfect strangers, Courtney and I coming to your

1363
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 2: home to you know, talk in person and you know,

1364
01:17:56,680 --> 01:17:59,799
Speaker 2: kind of discuss the project and you know, see if there's.

1365
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:00,360
Speaker 3: A fit, right.

1366
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:02,760
Speaker 2: You never want to make anybody feel uncomfortable. This is

1367
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 2: before cameras or anything. And I feel like Whitney was

1368
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 2: sitting on that beautiful little swing and she's you know,

1369
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 2: that hair is so beautiful, and she had her beautiful

1370
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:13,920
Speaker 2: little daughter, and I think we just like hung and

1371
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 2: talk like humans for for many hours and it was

1372
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 2: sort of like, listen, regardless of what happens with the documentary,

1373
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 2: you can choose yes, you can choose no, but.

1374
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:25,759
Speaker 3: We're going to know you forever.

1375
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 2: And Courtney and I have said that so many times

1376
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 2: so just having you here right now seems so serendipitously perfect, make.

1377
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:36,040
Speaker 3: Me cry.

1378
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 5: And Taha again, I will not echo everything except to

1379
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:46,320
Speaker 5: say my imitation is how unfortunate, which Taha will use

1380
01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:55,759
Speaker 5: to describe he has reacting to. And you are everything

1381
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 5: that was said before double and beyond.

1382
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 3: And body boom, how far we've come.

1383
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 5: From, as Stephanie has laid out, you know, the first

1384
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 5: meeting in that green room and fan, you know, fangirling

1385
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:10,880
Speaker 5: and being nervous to get to see you every night,

1386
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:13,559
Speaker 5: and you know, face to face every night.

1387
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 3: It's so cool, and.

1388
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 5: You're just your mind is amazing and you're wicked smart,

1389
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 5: and you're so insightful, and you're also just jump in

1390
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 5: with everything, as Aba saying, just you know, greasing the

1391
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 5: tracks and making it happen, and your answer is always yes,

1392
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 5: and you're just a really a cool human to know.

1393
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 5: And I'm like, oh, thank you to know you and

1394
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 5: lucky to know you. And then Stepan Idecker, good a grief.

1395
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 3: It's been a long time together.

1396
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 5: It's been a long time together, and those that two

1397
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:50,920
Speaker 5: weeks start here we are.

1398
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:52,639
Speaker 3: I never could have imagined it.

1399
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:56,759
Speaker 5: And this show, as Stephanie mentioned, was a long time coming,

1400
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 5: and that's an understatement. It was like pushing Molass up

1401
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:07,559
Speaker 5: a sand hill, which Stephanie did with undying enthusiasm, which

1402
01:20:07,600 --> 01:20:11,160
Speaker 5: is how she attacks and approach, not even approaches life,

1403
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 5: attacks life and is there for life. No, and really,

1404
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 5: over many many years and as you said, in many

1405
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 5: many strange rooms and every kind of circumstance, you're so

1406
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:30,679
Speaker 5: profoundly yourself and you are so positive and capable and

1407
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 5: smart and strategic and lovely. You are all of those

1408
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:38,799
Speaker 5: things in spades. And I really I'm just also really

1409
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 5: just lucky to know you the way I do, and

1410
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 5: I'm so glad that we get to do this together.

1411
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:46,639
Speaker 3: Long time coming is right.

1412
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 2: One time, I have one story about Courtney Armstrong, just

1413
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 2: one little aside. So Courtney and I were producers, and

1414
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 2: like I said, from historically speaking, you know, she was

1415
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 2: I was working someplace and needed to hire somebody for

1416
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 2: two weeks and just to get me through like a

1417
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,880
Speaker 2: little crunch time, and enter Courtney Armstrong.

1418
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 3: Obviously that has never changed.

1419
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 2: That two weeks turned into you know, well over a decade.

1420
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 2: And you know Courtney, we always say, is the tough one,

1421
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 2: like she just kind of calls it like it is.

1422
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 2: She's just gonna keep the train on the tracks, keep

1423
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 2: the train on the tracks.

1424
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 3: And she and I were both always producers.

1425
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 2: And then one day, sometime during COVID, she discloses that

1426
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 2: her dream job would be to be a narrator on audiobooks.

1427
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,639
Speaker 2: Audiobooks so huh, by the way, I thought I knew

1428
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 2: Courtney so well. I was like, that's your dream, that

1429
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:38,479
Speaker 2: is sort of the good goal. Well, guess what we

1430
01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 2: make things for a living. And suddenly Courtney becomes the

1431
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 2: voice of the Piked and Massacre her very first time

1432
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:49,759
Speaker 2: and obviously was a mega hit, and has now become

1433
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,960
Speaker 2: the voice of all of our podcasts, virtually all of

1434
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,040
Speaker 2: them at the bare minimum. Nobody does it better than Courtney,

1435
01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:59,480
Speaker 2: and yes we're all on the podcast in different capacities.

1436
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 3: Buttney's voice really became the bedrock.

1437
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 2: And again now she's like, oh, I don't make those

1438
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 2: TV shows anymore. I'm talent and nan is she ever?

1439
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,559
Speaker 2: So welcome to True Crime tonight. And then Courtney Armstrong

1440
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:14,680
Speaker 2: at the hell makes perfect sense.

1441
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 3: Totally, Oh here we are. Well, am I supposed to

1442
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 3: follow Courtney? She did so well?

1443
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 2: I like tough times, good times.

1444
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 3: You know, it's been hard. Whatever has been good.

1445
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 12: Yeah, you know, twenty twenty five has been a stay

1446
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 12: a stellar year for me. The highlight of the years

1447
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 12: obviously getting to launch the show. You know, it was

1448
01:22:38,240 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 12: many years in the making. As Stephanie said, I'd get

1449
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 12: a call every few months. It's still we worked, I promise,

1450
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:46,280
Speaker 12: I promise. Okay Stephanie, Okay, you know, but no, I

1451
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 12: mean obviously working with you guys and getting to know

1452
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 12: you and you know, meeting some of you for the

1453
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 12: first time, and being so impressed by all of you

1454
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 12: and listen, I'm hard to impress, like for real, so

1455
01:22:56,920 --> 01:22:58,639
Speaker 12: I'm very impressed with.

1456
01:22:58,560 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 3: All of you.

1457
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 12: So that's my high I didn't really have any lows.

1458
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:04,599
Speaker 12: I'm not gonna, you know, do anything, but I did

1459
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:10,640
Speaker 12: write a little holiday greeting. It's very sure. So if

1460
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 12: you want to my True Crime Tonight family, which includes

1461
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,880
Speaker 12: all of you here and all the listeners, thank you

1462
01:23:16,880 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 12: for writing with us through the timelines, the receipts, and

1463
01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 12: the chaos. Rest up, protect your metadata, trust your instincts,

1464
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 12: and we'll see you in the new year. Same MIC's

1465
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:34,200
Speaker 12: Deeper Dives.

1466
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:35,639
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

1467
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:41,360
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, this has been a wild wild year. Some

1468
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 2: of the highs are undeniable and some of.

1469
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:47,840
Speaker 3: The lows are. We're real this year, you.

1470
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,960
Speaker 2: Know, I think this year started kind of with a

1471
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:52,679
Speaker 2: bit of a bang. My dog died, as you guys

1472
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 2: have heard so much about. I had just moved into

1473
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 2: a new house, and obviously we know what happened to

1474
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,200
Speaker 2: that in the Palisades and through that.

1475
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 3: Honestly, I would say probably, I don't know.

1476
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:07,719
Speaker 2: February March, this time last year felt a little hard,

1477
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 2: like the walls felt like they were closing in. I

1478
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 2: was living in a temporary situation, thankfully, but I don't know.

1479
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 2: This is the show that kind of brought me back

1480
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:18,719
Speaker 2: to life, if I'm honest. You know, True Crime Tonight,

1481
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:21,879
Speaker 2: when it kicked in, when we really started getting serious

1482
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:24,280
Speaker 2: about its launch, I don't know, the fun kicked in

1483
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:28,799
Speaker 2: again and things felt funny again, and this group together

1484
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 2: just some solid laughter even while talking.

1485
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,479
Speaker 3: About such difficult things. I think became a real.

1486
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 2: Lifeline for me now, a whole new life and a

1487
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,639
Speaker 2: whole new place right And I love anybody listening.

1488
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 3: We are so so.

1489
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,599
Speaker 2: Grateful for your talk backs and for your dms and

1490
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,280
Speaker 2: for your smart, smart questions.

1491
01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:49,440
Speaker 3: They're so impressive.

1492
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 2: It feels like we're building a community, and this doesn't

1493
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:53,799
Speaker 2: feel like a show.

1494
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:55,679
Speaker 3: It feels like we're all in it together.

1495
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:58,640
Speaker 2: And I think that's the important piece of what I

1496
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 2: think twenty twenty six will in store for.

1497
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:03,680
Speaker 3: Us is more and a little more. I love that.

1498
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 2: You know, two of the voices that you hear quite

1499
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 2: a bit are Sam and Adam. Obviously they're in the

1500
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 2: control room. Their iHeart greatness. And you know, we all

1501
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 2: met when the show was launching, and boy, I think

1502
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:21,320
Speaker 2: we could all agree what a giggle that start was.

1503
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 3: And we were really bad, and.

1504
01:25:24,479 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 2: We got the benefit of meeting Sam and Adam, and

1505
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:29,400
Speaker 2: I would like to say it was love at first sight.

1506
01:25:29,560 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 2: And we have been here together every night for many

1507
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 2: hours since and starting with Adam, Adam tell us everything,

1508
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 2: the best and worst of your twenty twenty five.

1509
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 13: Oh boy, well, I mean, it's been a pleasure coming

1510
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 13: on with you guys, and I can't believe we've been

1511
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:48,680
Speaker 13: doing it for I don't know, like seven months now

1512
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 13: or something.

1513
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 3: It sure has been.

1514
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 13: It's flown by, and it's been great. You know, it

1515
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 13: is a pleasure working with you guys, and you're all

1516
01:25:57,040 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 13: very kind it's a fun atmosphere to be in. So

1517
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:03,080
Speaker 13: I'm great for this job. For starting this job this year,

1518
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:05,640
Speaker 13: I haven't done a whole lot personally. I mean, I

1519
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 13: guess I have little music projects going on and stuff.

1520
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 13: We played a couple of fun shows this year, and

1521
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:10,960
Speaker 13: so that was you.

1522
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 3: Never talk about.

1523
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,759
Speaker 2: Also, we've been talking about getting a True Crime Tonight

1524
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 2: band started, right, and you know, Adam has been cheating

1525
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:22,600
Speaker 2: on us because he's already out and about doing gigs undercover.

1526
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 13: Yeah, well, I have plenty of time for the True

1527
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 13: Crime Tonight band as well, you know, so we can

1528
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 13: set some time aside for that.

1529
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:32,519
Speaker 2: Let's get that started in the new year. I hear

1530
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,040
Speaker 2: some music cues in our future.

1531
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 3: And rest assured. There have been some very tough moments.

1532
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 2: You know, with a live show, lots of things can

1533
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 2: go right and lots of things can go wrong, and

1534
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 2: Sam and Adam have to shoulder.

1535
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 3: All of that.

1536
01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 2: No matter what, the show always goes on, and you

1537
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:53,800
Speaker 2: guys make even the sticky situations really fun.

1538
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:54,200
Speaker 13: Well.

1539
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 3: I appreciate that we try our best over here. It

1540
01:26:57,160 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 3: gets chaotic, that's for sure, but.

1541
01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:03,040
Speaker 13: Hopefully, hopefully the listeners don't realize that hopefully it all

1542
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 13: sounds great all the time.

1543
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:07,240
Speaker 2: So all right, Sam, over there, go ahead, you're next

1544
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 2: right far away. Yeah, so listen, Sam also keeping us

1545
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 2: all in check, keeping the train on the tracks. This

1546
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five has been a beautiful time because we've

1547
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:20,640
Speaker 2: gotten to meet you guys, and I feel like we

1548
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,679
Speaker 2: all meshed very very quickly and have had our fair

1549
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 2: share of giggles and hard times too. We've all been

1550
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 2: so affected by some of the cases that we followed,

1551
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 2: and you guys jumped right in and have such great

1552
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,800
Speaker 2: insight all the time. So you know, Sam specifically, have

1553
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 2: there been any lows or any highs that you want

1554
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 2: to share about your year?

1555
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 14: Just not only just starting this job, but also just

1556
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 14: kind of figuring out myself, like from a personal growth,

1557
01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 14: just trying to develop since ever since I moved to

1558
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:59,799
Speaker 14: LA it's trying to better adults or functioning adults.

1559
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 3: It was a really good functioning adult.

1560
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:06,559
Speaker 14: Oh thanks. I like to think I'm somewhat functioning and

1561
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 14: just like being part of the show. Like I before

1562
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 14: we did the show, I knew nothing about true crime

1563
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:15,160
Speaker 14: and I didn't even know where to start. And I

1564
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:18,719
Speaker 14: feel like we've kind of gone over everything, and from

1565
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 14: like the murder parts to the like the legal side

1566
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:27,240
Speaker 14: to like everything, so everything's been very educational and on

1567
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 14: the low end, like we kind of went over how

1568
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 14: like Ozzie died and that was like a personal thing

1569
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:35,840
Speaker 14: for me because he was like my hero ever since

1570
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 14: I was sixteen and to like go through like my

1571
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 14: life and he's also like not that far from like

1572
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 14: my own dad's age. So it's one of those things

1573
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 14: where I realize when you get older and people that

1574
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 14: have been around through your whole life and then like

1575
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,480
Speaker 14: they're slowly going, but then you just enjoy the memories exactly.

1576
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:57,240
Speaker 2: You took that very very hard Azsi's loss, you really did.

1577
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:00,640
Speaker 3: And Brian Wilson for you, Adam, Yeah, that's right, I was.

1578
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 13: I mean, I'm just like a major Beach Boys fan

1579
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 13: and I love Brian Wilson and spend a good deal

1580
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,679
Speaker 13: of time thinking about him and all the brothers, and

1581
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,640
Speaker 13: now they're all gone and it's very sad, but you know,

1582
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 13: we're just grateful for their their contribution and the joy

1583
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,200
Speaker 13: that they gave all of us. And yeah, you have

1584
01:29:20,280 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 13: to you have to hold on to the light somehow,

1585
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,000
Speaker 13: you know, and just be grateful for what they gave us.

1586
01:29:25,439 --> 01:29:28,800
Speaker 2: That's so true and serve body move in. So again,

1587
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 2: we've all heard this story a thousand times. But we

1588
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,839
Speaker 2: were at crime Con and yes, saw body move in Courtney,

1589
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: and I attacked her in the green room. We took photographs.

1590
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 2: We have to post that photo, which bright us and

1591
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 2: we took pictures and much like every single person here.

1592
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:47,879
Speaker 3: What did we say? Court I'm like, we're gonna nobody

1593
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:51,080
Speaker 3: move in forever? And why literally?

1594
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,320
Speaker 2: I was like, listen, are you available because we're going

1595
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:55,559
Speaker 2: to do a podcast and da da da da, And

1596
01:29:56,280 --> 01:30:00,120
Speaker 2: as Courtney mentioned, yes, she just jumps right in body.

1597
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 2: I just jumped right in head first. And was so

1598
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:05,760
Speaker 2: trusting because to her point, every couple of months, I'd

1599
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 2: be like, hey, buddy, I promise you.

1600
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 3: What's going to happen.

1601
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 2: It's just taking such a long time, but I promise,

1602
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:11,759
Speaker 2: and you just always kept the faith.

1603
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: And when it came time for showtime, we did a

1604
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:17,120
Speaker 3: roll call, We're like who's in. Everybody was like boom,

1605
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 3: tell us when, tell us where? And you have brought

1606
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:24,759
Speaker 3: so much smart and heart and laughter to the equation.

1607
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:28,839
Speaker 2: You tell it like it is, and man, it has

1608
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 2: been such an honor to have you in my daily life,

1609
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: and I'm so incredibly grateful for that.

1610
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:38,719
Speaker 3: I literally write that down when I send my prayers

1611
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 3: at night. So thank you so much, amazing after your

1612
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:46,799
Speaker 3: prayers too.

1613
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 12: It's funny because you know, at places like Crime chron

1614
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:52,439
Speaker 12: especially when you're one of the main speakers, and I

1615
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,479
Speaker 12: was doing two workshops. I was on the main stage

1616
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:59,720
Speaker 12: twice that weekend, and so you know.

1617
01:30:58,960 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 3: I had a staff of cards from people.

1618
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 12: Oh, I'm gonna call you, I want to get with you,

1619
01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:05,080
Speaker 12: I want to work with you in the future, and

1620
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:07,720
Speaker 12: I've got like probably ten or so that reached out.

1621
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,080
Speaker 12: Eventually I ended up working with two, and you guys

1622
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 12: are one of them. Because you know, you as somebody

1623
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,680
Speaker 12: who gets cast and things like you know this, you

1624
01:31:15,800 --> 01:31:18,320
Speaker 12: have to suss it out. You can't roll with every

1625
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 12: production company that calls you, right, you have to really

1626
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 12: research them. And so I know a little bit more

1627
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,120
Speaker 12: about you than you think. And that's why I trusted you.

1628
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:35,440
Speaker 3: I love it. Body knows my medidata, body knows my metadata.

1629
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:39,759
Speaker 3: I would wear that it's a copy and there's nobody

1630
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:41,400
Speaker 3: I trust with it more than body.

1631
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:46,679
Speaker 2: We are so grateful that you spent the entire evening

1632
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 2: with us, and we cannot wait to do this every

1633
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:54,559
Speaker 2: night in twenty twenty six. Please be kind, be loving,

1634
01:31:54,960 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 2: and stay safe during the holidays.