1
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,920
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, This is Lee Clasgow when We're Talking Transports.

2
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transport Podcast. I'm your host,

3
00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,120
Speaker 1: Lee Klasgow, Senior Freight transportation logistics Analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence,

4
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,279
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts

5
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 1: and strategists around the globe. Before diving in a little

6
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 1: public service announcement, your support is instrumental to keep bringing

7
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,840
Speaker 1: great guests onto the podcast like the one we have today.

8
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,720
Speaker 1: If you haven't already, please do take a moment to

9
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: follow rate and share the Talking Transports podcast with your friends, family,

10
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 1: and colleagues. We really do appreciate your support. I'm really

11
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,639
Speaker 1: excited to have with us today. D D. Calwell, President

12
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 1: and CEO of Global Location Strategies, a leading site selection

13
00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: and incentive negotiation firm for manufacturing and industrial companies. D

14
00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 1: D is one of the world's most authoritative site and

15
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 1: instead of negotiations expert with more than two decades of

16
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: experience in the industry, and she's been dubbed America's factory

17
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,679
Speaker 1: Whisperer by Bloomberg News. As President and CEO of Global

18
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 1: Location Strategies, Dede's focus is her company's mission to match

19
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:23,559
Speaker 1: companies and communities for mutual, sustainable prosperity. Under her leadership,

20
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: GLS has become a world leader in site selection and

21
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: incentive negotiation services and has been named to INK five

22
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 1: hundred Fastest Growing Companies list twice. She's a proud member

23
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 1: of the Site Selection Guild, the only association of the

24
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,119
Speaker 1: world's foremost professional site selection consultants. Deete was the first

25
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,160
Speaker 1: female chairperson of the organization has held various leadership roles,

26
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 1: currently serving as chair of the Ready Sites Initiative. She

27
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: holds a bachelor's degree in architecture from Clemson University and

28
00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 1: an International NBA from the University of South Carolina's Darla

29
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 1: Moore School of Business. Welcome to the podcast, Didie. Thanks

30
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 1: so much for being here.

31
00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here.

32
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 1: And so the first question, are you more of a

33
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:12,919
Speaker 1: Tigers fan or or a game Cocks fan?

34
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 2: My blood run at the Orange, for sure. So I'm

35
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,079
Speaker 2: a Tiger fan. I pull for the game Cocks when

36
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,640
Speaker 2: they're not playing Clemson, but otherwise I'm diehard Clemson.

37
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,440
Speaker 1: All right, all right, good Tigers. So you know, in

38
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 1: the introduction, I kind of briefly said what GLS is

39
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 1: all about. Can you give us a little background about

40
00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,919
Speaker 1: the organization that you lead for us?

41
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 2: Sure, So we're based in Greenville, South Carolina, but we

42
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,560
Speaker 2: have a presence in three continents Europe and in South

43
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:50,240
Speaker 2: America as well, and for about seventeen years we have

44
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:55,960
Speaker 2: been offering location strategy services, primarily to mafactoring clients that

45
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,920
Speaker 2: are looking to where they place plant, property and equipment

46
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,960
Speaker 2: and people around around the globe and how they do

47
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:08,399
Speaker 2: that by optimizing their return on investment for their shareholders.

48
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,239
Speaker 2: We also do some consulting work for states, communities, railroads,

49
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,640
Speaker 2: electricity companies that are trying to be more effective in

50
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 2: recruiting jobs, capital investment, and load to their locations. We've

51
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 2: got about twenty folks on staff. We've grown very very

52
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:32,120
Speaker 2: rapidly since COVID. It's been a lot of frothiness in

53
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 2: the in the market, and through that and also through

54
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 2: the development of some technology that we've done, we've really

55
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 2: been able to capitalize on that and grow in a

56
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,520
Speaker 2: pretty pretty nice clip. So very very difficult to keep up,

57
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 2: but it's been a wild ride, I.

58
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 1: Bet, and one of the reasons you know why, I

59
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 1: wanted to have you on. You know, I heard you

60
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 1: speak at csx's investor day last year. And also, you know,

61
00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,920
Speaker 1: the railroads in order for them to row, they're really

62
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,280
Speaker 1: focused on an industrial development, and that's really where you

63
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: come in and where your firm comes in. So I

64
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: thought it was a great kind of learning experience for

65
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,480
Speaker 1: people that are looking at railroads and trying to figure

66
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 1: out how they're growing, because you're really bringing together, if

67
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 1: I understand your business correctly, you know the railroads with

68
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 1: the companies that are looking to grow into new sites

69
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: or I guess regions that are looking for economic development.

70
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,160
Speaker 2: Yes, that is that is correct. So a lot of

71
00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 2: black clients require rail service, either direct rail or trans

72
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,800
Speaker 2: modal or intermodal or transload.

73
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 1: And so.

74
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 2: There's not there's a limited number of properties that have

75
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,960
Speaker 2: that capability, and so our clients are really looking for

76
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 2: the optimal location that they can put their assets, and

77
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 2: it's based on really three things, cost, quality, and risk.

78
00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,159
Speaker 2: So if they are going to build a manufacturing facility,

79
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 2: and a lot of my clients the projects are anywhere

80
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 2: from one hundred million to many billion dollars in investment

81
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,760
Speaker 2: in order for them to be able to do that,

82
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,279
Speaker 2: they need to understand that they're going to a location

83
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,479
Speaker 2: that is ideally the lowest cost both on investment and

84
00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 2: operating costs. So from a logistics standpoint, you're looking at,

85
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 2: you know, where is it easiest to bring the rail

86
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 2: and where can I minimize on my freight cost the

87
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,720
Speaker 2: highest quality, So maybe related to rail transport, it's how

88
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 2: good is the service, how good are my connections? Am

89
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,200
Speaker 2: I own a direct mainline to my main customer or

90
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 2: my main supplier. Those are all quality factors, and then

91
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 2: risk moving forward. So those might be natural disaster risks,

92
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 2: they might be risk to my schedule, to my budget,

93
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,919
Speaker 2: to my ability to operate now into the future. And

94
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 2: so if we can help them find the location that

95
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 2: optimizes on all three of those, then it's a relatively

96
00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 2: easy choice. But like in life, a lot of things

97
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,479
Speaker 2: are not so cut and dry, and so my job

98
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 2: is to really help them understand what those trade offs

99
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,279
Speaker 2: and make the decision that is best for their operation

100
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,040
Speaker 2: moving forward. You know, these are generational investments. So if

101
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 2: you're thinking about putting hundreds of millions of dollars into

102
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,280
Speaker 2: bricks and mortar and machinery and equipment, training, hundreds of people.

103
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,960
Speaker 2: In order to get a return on investment, you have

104
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 2: to run that facility out of profit for a really

105
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:33,039
Speaker 2: long time. And so these are high stakes decisions with

106
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,840
Speaker 2: lots and lots of variables to take into account, and

107
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,400
Speaker 2: at almost every step there's a potential pitfall. So we

108
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,279
Speaker 2: help them navigate that as best we can.

109
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,279
Speaker 1: And most of your customers, I guess the market you

110
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,960
Speaker 1: serve are mostly manufacturing and industrial. Is that fair to say?

111
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 2: That is correct? So we do some warehouse and distribution,

112
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 2: but mainly for our manufacturing clients. We also do data centers,

113
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 2: which is not manufacturing, but it is very capital and

114
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 2: energy intensive. And then we're also quite active now on

115
00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 2: energy generation. So back in the late nineties early two thousands,

116
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,360
Speaker 2: I did a lot of projects that were merchant combined

117
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 2: cycle gas plants, and with Enron and that fiasco, that

118
00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 2: sort of fell out of favor. But with the availability

119
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 2: of cheap natural gas and also the spiking demand for electricity,

120
00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 2: those projects have come back in vogue. So I'm working

121
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 2: on probably half a dozen of those across the US

122
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 2: right now.

123
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 1: Okay, And so like just curious, so how long does

124
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 1: it take to get a deal done in your business?

125
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: It really varies a lot of it. Typically we can

126
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,760
Speaker 2: move faster than our clients. It's quite common that companies

127
00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,520
Speaker 2: will call me up and say I need a site

128
00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, tomorrow or even better yesterday, and so we

129
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,800
Speaker 2: can move really quickly. I guess one really good example

130
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 2: was Noveallas and their elumited rolling mill. They had narrowed

131
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 2: down to a site a few years ago, I think

132
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 2: this was in twenty twenty one, and there were some

133
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,160
Speaker 2: issues associated with the site, so they asked us to

134
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 2: develop a Plan B and to look at alternative sites,

135
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 2: and they caught us in February and announce the project

136
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 2: on the Plan B site in Baldwin County, Alabama in

137
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,400
Speaker 2: May of that year. So that is a lightning lightning

138
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,960
Speaker 2: fast three months or something like that. More typically, it

139
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 2: would take us, let's say four to six months to

140
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 2: identify the primary and alternate sites, and we usually like

141
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,960
Speaker 2: to have two that we're considering, just to avoid exactly

142
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,360
Speaker 2: what Novellas encountered. It takes us four to six months

143
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 2: to identify the primary and alternate site and the location,

144
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 2: and then anywhere from six to twelve weeks or as

145
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,359
Speaker 2: long as the client wants to take to do the negotiatations,

146
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 2: the due diligence and announce the project.

147
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,720
Speaker 1: And most of the deals that you work on are

148
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 1: they for sites that already have facilities and infrastructure in place,

149
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: or these kind of like greenfield brown field kind of

150
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,280
Speaker 1: transactions that you mostly work on.

151
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I would say small percentage of the projects

152
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,679
Speaker 2: that we do or existing buildings. I think we're a

153
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 2: little bit different than the market from that standpoint because

154
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:32,520
Speaker 2: many companies are small enough and their manufacturing processes are

155
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 2: generic enough that they can go into existing buildings. Most

156
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 2: of the projects that I work on, the buildings are

157
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 2: really built for that particular purpose. So if you're talking

158
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:48,559
Speaker 2: about paper machines or you know, furnaces for glass insulation,

159
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,600
Speaker 2: I mean, these are not buildings that you're going to find. Ideally,

160
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,680
Speaker 2: they would be sites that are they might still be

161
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,599
Speaker 2: considered greenfield, but they are in an industrial park or

162
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 2: in an area where there has been a lot of

163
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,839
Speaker 2: due diligence and the utilities and the infrastructure have been

164
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 2: brought to the site. In some cases, we're able to

165
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 2: go into ground fields, not so much into existing buildings,

166
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 2: but perhaps there was an old you know, textile plan

167
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,640
Speaker 2: or even a close coal fired power plant adjacent and

168
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 2: it already has a lot of the utility infrastructure there.

169
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 2: That's a win win for everyone because you're not taking

170
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,320
Speaker 2: a green field property out of service, and you also

171
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 2: have oftentimes faster development schedule and lower costs and less

172
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,440
Speaker 2: environmental risk if you're going into something that's already already

173
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 2: approved and built as and as in.

174
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 1: Place, right and if you're starting from scratch where maybe

175
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,599
Speaker 1: they you know, as you mentioned, like, the infrastructure is

176
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 1: already there. How long does it take from the time

177
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: that you suggest the site to a customer until the

178
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 1: customer is whatever they're doing, either they're manufacturing widgets or

179
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 1: what have you.

180
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,000
Speaker 2: Typically, for a large manufacturing project, particularly bits process related,

181
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 2: you're probably going to need a year or so for

182
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 2: engineering and design and permitting. Many of these are require

183
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 2: major air permits, and so that often takes somewhere between

184
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 2: six months and a year or even longer. So, and

185
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 2: then you've got to do construction, which you cannot start

186
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,679
Speaker 2: construction often times until you have your airpin permit, and

187
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 2: that often takes twelve months. So it's really anywhere from

188
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 2: twenty four to thirty six months from the time that

189
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 2: they they break around or the time that they announce

190
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,760
Speaker 2: the project and start you know, detailed engineering and permitting

191
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 2: for that site and when they start the facility.

192
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 1: Yup, So you mentioned permitting. There's a new administration in town.

193
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,560
Speaker 1: They are really yeah, I heard from why. I understand

194
00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,840
Speaker 1: they're a little more pro business than previous administrations. And

195
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: you know he happens to be a develop developer as well.

196
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: So what what what is that going to do for

197
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,839
Speaker 1: your industry? Are you guys like expecting that the time

198
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,840
Speaker 1: to you know, build something is going to be cut

199
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 1: significantly because of the new administration or it's not going

200
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 1: to be that dramatic of a change.

201
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,240
Speaker 2: It's a little bit hard to say. On the air

202
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,880
Speaker 2: permitting because there are there is a there are legal

203
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,560
Speaker 2: statutes that have certain time requirements, and the air permitting

204
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,320
Speaker 2: is almost entirely delegated to the states from the e

205
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:40,679
Speaker 2: P A.

206
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,560
Speaker 1: Can I ask a dumb question? Air permitting means is

207
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: what like air quality?

208
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 2: Air quality? So if you have emissions associated with your

209
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 2: with your operation, there criteria pollutants like socks, sulfur, dinoxide,

210
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 2: nitros dioxide, zone, et cetera. And so there's limits on

211
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,480
Speaker 2: what you can do, and if you depending on what

212
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 2: your emissions are, you have to get a permit, and

213
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,079
Speaker 2: your classification of your permit is determined by how much

214
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 2: of those permit those pollutants you have and whether or

215
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 2: not you're in an area that is air quality attainment

216
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,520
Speaker 2: basically is in an area that meets the standards by

217
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,200
Speaker 2: the Clean Air Act, So that determines what kind of

218
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 2: permit and how long it's going to take, and whether

219
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 2: or not you have to buy credits. So I don't

220
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,400
Speaker 2: really think that that is we're going to see any

221
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 2: major changes there immediately. Where I'm don't have to assume

222
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,880
Speaker 2: that we're going to see changes because we experienced this

223
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,080
Speaker 2: the last time that Trump was in h was in

224
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 2: the presidency was with the Core of Engineers and what

225
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,439
Speaker 2: is considered the waters of the US. So we were

226
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 2: working on a project in Arkansas and we're going through

227
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:54,479
Speaker 2: due diligence and we literally had our documentation and application

228
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 2: for a wetland variant on the Core of Engineer's desk

229
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 2: in Dallas when the new laws took perfect when Biden

230
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,120
Speaker 2: came in, and that changed the definition of what is

231
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,400
Speaker 2: waters in the US, which meant that we were we

232
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 2: needed a different type of permit, it was going to

233
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,880
Speaker 2: take much longer. So I feel pretty certain that that's

234
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,840
Speaker 2: one of the things that will It will make it

235
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,880
Speaker 2: easier for us to move forward with some of these developments,

236
00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 2: for better for worse. It's just that that is what

237
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:24,800
Speaker 2: we actually experienced.

238
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 1: And going back to something you said earlier about cost, quality,

239
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,400
Speaker 1: and risk. You know, are there any other factors that

240
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,440
Speaker 1: you look at when accessing of, you know, a location.

241
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, so those are just the big categories that they

242
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,360
Speaker 2: fall into. But I often say that I'm an inch

243
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 2: deep and a mile wide because we have to look

244
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,840
Speaker 2: at so many different things. And somebody says, well, you're

245
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 2: not giving yourself enough credit, and I say, okay, well

246
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,520
Speaker 2: I'm an inch deep and two miles wide. Because we

247
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 2: have to consider things like obviously logistics, workforce, we have

248
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 2: to consider the site itself. We have to consider util wastewater,

249
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 2: gas electric. A lot of times we're dealing with shared services,

250
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 2: so if there's an existing if there's kind of location,

251
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 2: then can they provide you with nitrogen or demon water.

252
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 2: Then we also have to look at taxes and finance

253
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,800
Speaker 2: and so all of the legal implications, the entitlements of

254
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 2: the property, et cetera, et cetera. So it really is

255
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 2: I can go very very deep on location strategy, but

256
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 2: I know just enough to be dangerous about all of

257
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,000
Speaker 2: those other things. And once we start to get into

258
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 2: uncharted territories for me, then you know, I've call in reinforcements,

259
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 2: the experts that can really get deep on those particular things.

260
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,760
Speaker 1: Okay, most mornings when I when I competed to work,

261
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,760
Speaker 1: I usually listen to Bloomberg Radio, of course, and I

262
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,640
Speaker 1: hear a lot of commercials for the economic development zones,

263
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: whether it's Indiana or Ohio. What can what can like

264
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 1: counties or states do to make their region more attractive

265
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,320
Speaker 1: for folks like you to come in and say this

266
00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,240
Speaker 1: is a place where you need to build.

267
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, I think there's there's several things

268
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,160
Speaker 2: that they really need to do in order to be

269
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,760
Speaker 2: what I call investment ready. And it takes a lot

270
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 2: of effort, and it takes resources and commitment to become

271
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 2: investment ready. The first thing that you really need to

272
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,880
Speaker 2: do is you need to figure out what you're good at.

273
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, going back to Amazon HQ two,

274
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 2: when every community whether they had a shot to be

275
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: in the final running or not was going all out

276
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 2: to provide Amazon with a proposal. I think there were

277
00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 2: some benefits from that because it actually got the stakeholders

278
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 2: around the table to motivate them towards something. But there

279
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,960
Speaker 2: was just the reality that most of these communities were

280
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,160
Speaker 2: not going to be able to commit to compete. So,

281
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,040
Speaker 2: you know, first thing is knowing where you can compete

282
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 2: and then developing assets that will help you compete in

283
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,320
Speaker 2: that space. And that starts with a site or a building,

284
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 2: because you could have the best community located in the

285
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 2: best location, with the best workforce, the best cost structure,

286
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,960
Speaker 2: and if you don't have a site or a building

287
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,879
Speaker 2: that a project can land on in their time frame,

288
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 2: you're never going to you're never going to be considered.

289
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,000
Speaker 1: We just don't.

290
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 2: We don't have the luxury of waiting for you to

291
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 2: develop that real estate. The second thing that they can

292
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:30,080
Speaker 2: do is really look at their workforce and is their

293
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 2: workforce properly trained and up and ready for that that

294
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 2: type of industry And a lot of times your your

295
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,399
Speaker 2: competitiveness will be a reflection what your workforce is. But

296
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: what can you do to even make that that value

297
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 2: proposition stronger and it really starts in the K twelve.

298
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 2: We like to see uh STEM education, manufacturing labs, robotics,

299
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:57,720
Speaker 2: et cetera. At least at the at the middle school level,

300
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,639
Speaker 2: and going all the way up through high school and

301
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,840
Speaker 2: then technical college and even you don't have to have

302
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,439
Speaker 2: a university with science or engineering close by, but it

303
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 2: certainly does help. And then the last thing is really well,

304
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 2: I guess there's two more things. One thing is to

305
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,400
Speaker 2: have a package to know what you can do when

306
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:23,119
Speaker 2: it comes to incentives. If you have a site that

307
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 2: you've developed for the right project, what type of incentive

308
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 2: will you provide. Would you be willing to give that

309
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,160
Speaker 2: site to a project that's going to create a certain

310
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 2: number of jobs and payroll and investment or do you

311
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 2: need to pull back on some of that And what

312
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,480
Speaker 2: are your criteria there? Same thing with tax breaks, cash grands,

313
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 2: training programs, et cetera. And then the last thing I

314
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,880
Speaker 2: think is a little bit more esoteric, and it's really

315
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 2: about creating a sense of place because one of the

316
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 2: things that has really I've been doing this for twenty

317
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 2: seven or twenty eight years now, and one of the

318
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:05,840
Speaker 2: things that has really changed is that the migration of talent,

319
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,959
Speaker 2: and it's more challenging now for me to look at

320
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 2: a workforce and to be able to look at my

321
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,439
Speaker 2: client and say definitively that yes, I believe that this

322
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 2: is a great place for you because the workforce is excellent.

323
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:27,400
Speaker 2: It's everywhere's resource constrained. Our talent base has eroded significantly

324
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,439
Speaker 2: with the retirement of the baby boomers, and almost everywhere

325
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 2: is playing catchup. So I'm looking at who's doing the

326
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 2: right thing to get into a position to be able

327
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 2: to build those jobs. And that starts with really having

328
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 2: a great community that people want to live in because

329
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 2: people have choices. It used to be that you know,

330
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 2: we would go to would our clients would go to

331
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,040
Speaker 2: a location, and the assumption was is that that the

332
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 2: talent would come to them. And it's been a real

333
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 2: paradigm shift that people are deciding where they want to

334
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: live and they assume that they're going to be able

335
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 2: to find a job there.

336
00:19:58,880 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: Right, So we've had.

337
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 2: To revert are thinking somewhat to be thinking about where

338
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 2: does everybody else want to go? And that's going to

339
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 2: have some impact on where we ultimately decide to locate, and.

340
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,640
Speaker 1: Are there regions of the country or states or counties

341
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 1: that are doing it right that are kind of like,

342
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,159
Speaker 1: you know, are kind of a place where other areas

343
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,880
Speaker 1: should look to for best practices.

344
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think that there are some sort of macro

345
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 2: trends that are happening. I mean, certainly the Sun Belt,

346
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 2: thank God for air conditioning. I would say that, you know,

347
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 2: South Carolina, if you just look at the numbers and

348
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 2: how well they have been able to succeed on a

349
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 2: per capita basis, They've attracted more jobs and more capital

350
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,919
Speaker 2: investment over the last ten years in manufacturing than just

351
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 2: about any other location. And that came from having really

352
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 2: really strong leadership. I mean, Nikki Haley was a fantastic

353
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,960
Speaker 2: economic development covernor, and she put in place a machine

354
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,240
Speaker 2: and they invested in sites. They really became aggressive with incentives,

355
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 2: and you know, we've almost become a victim of our

356
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: own success. There's not a lot of great sites left anymore.

357
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 2: And there's a little bit of a you know, resistance

358
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 2: on the part of the population in terms of like,

359
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 2: well maybe too much growth is just too much. I

360
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 2: would say that Alabama is doing a really great job.

361
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 2: They have a program called the Seeds Program that is

362
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,440
Speaker 2: investing in sites. And then they also have a qualified

363
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 2: Business Investment Tax which allows companies like CSX to they

364
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 2: can either pay their tax bill in Alabama or they

365
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 2: can create an investment tax credit which they can invest

366
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 2: into infrastructure in order to attract economic development projects and Novellas.

367
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 2: Going back to Novellas again again, that was one of

368
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: the projects that was able to have benefit of that

369
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 2: in that because CSX had spent around ten million dollars

370
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: developing a rail spur to that megasite in Baldwin County,

371
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 2: and that ultimately was able to show that from a

372
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: from a schedule perspective that that CSX and that site

373
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: we're going to be able to meet Novellasi's timeline. So

374
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: that's a really great example of something creative that I

375
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: think that they are doing.

376
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: And you know, so, what is I guess the biggest

377
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 1: roadblock to getting a transaction done or getting a marriage

378
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: done in your world? I love that you.

379
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 2: Call it a marriage because I often call it that.

380
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,160
Speaker 2: It's like you know, you're you know when you're dating,

381
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: and then you get to know one another and then

382
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: finally you get engaged. That when we start doing due diligence,

383
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 2: and obviously you tie the knot when you do the

384
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 2: do the when you make the announcement, and then when

385
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: you develop the project, that's your baby. And just like

386
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 2: in life, when you have a baby with someone, you're

387
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: tied to them for life. So I do think that

388
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: that's a really good analogy. You know, it's a million

389
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 2: in one things. I mean, there are some things that

390
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: are completely beyond the control of the company in the community,

391
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 2: things like the price of the commodity, foreign exchange, a variation,

392
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, just what the market does. I mean, EVS

393
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 2: is a really good example of like there was a

394
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 2: came out really hot and heavy. It seemed like everything

395
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: I was doing with batteries for a while, and they're

396
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 2: still there. I mean, it's not going away. It's just

397
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 2: that a little dose of reality has set in and

398
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,679
Speaker 2: it's not happening quite as quickly as we thought. So

399
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 2: those are things that beyond their control. I would say

400
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 2: that in the early days, the inability to keep things

401
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: confidential can really destroy a community's chance of landing a project,

402
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 2: because nobody likes to hear that you were looking in

403
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 2: a community from someone other than in your inner circle,

404
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 2: right there's just all kinds of issues associated with that.

405
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 2: I would say that in much of the United States,

406
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: particularly exurban and rural areas, water and wastewater infrastructure just

407
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 2: seems to be a big stumbling block. And I feel like,

408
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: you know, almost like we had the Electric Rural Electrification

409
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 2: Act that created TVA in the middle of the last century.

410
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 2: I holmost feel like there needs to be a concerted

411
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 2: effort regionally naturally to tie togains together some of our

412
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 2: water wastewater systems. We're being incredibly inefficient, both with resources

413
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: and with money, but we're also not There's plenty of

414
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: great sites out there that have land, they might have

415
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: rail highway infrastructure, high boultage, transmission lines, natural gas lines,

416
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 2: and even ability to recruit, you know, workforce, and there's

417
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: just not a robust water or wastewater infrastructure sure that

418
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: would support a manufacturing project. So that for me is

419
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: one of the things that I see, not specific to

420
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: any one project, but just across the board.

421
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: And you know, you mentioned CSX and the Novella's kind

422
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: of transaction are there. Do do you work with other railroads?

423
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: Do you just work with CSX?

424
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: So I'd say, well, we are representing a corporation, we

425
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 2: are unless they have drivers that would cause us to

426
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 2: look at one provider more than others. We are agnostic

427
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: when it comes to who provides the rail service. We

428
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: will evaluate it based on the level of service, where

429
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 2: are the connections, how does it optimize on freight freight costs,

430
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: things like that. But we often work with up BNSF,

431
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,679
Speaker 2: Canadian National or Southern CSX and a lot of the

432
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: short lines, like omni tracks for example. The short lines

433
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 2: are really coming in and picking up, uh, some of

434
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 2: the lines that are not as profitable for a main

435
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: tier class one rail rail to operate and turning those

436
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 2: into very valuable assets for medium to even large manufacturers

437
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: that perhaps don't command you know, they don't have unit

438
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: trains or or that sort of thing. They don't have

439
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 2: the level of service required, uh that would be provided

440
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 2: by class wood And.

441
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: Could you could you give other examples of some like

442
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 1: industrial development deals that you've done that you work closely

443
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: with the with the railroad, you know, kind of talk

444
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: about you know why it was a win for everybody.

445
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: Sure, So we did a glass installation plant for Kenoff,

446
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 2: which is a German building products company, and uh, they

447
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: we found them a site in just outside of Waco, Texas,

448
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 2: in a place called McGregor and that is served by

449
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: Union Pacific. And what was great about that is that

450
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: it was an area that had been earmarked for industrial

451
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,479
Speaker 2: and there was some due diligence that had in some

452
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: engineering studies that had happened before we arrived, but this

453
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 2: was a project that was large enough to really justify

454
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: bringing all of that infrastructure in and that so there

455
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: was a rail siding that was put in, improvements to

456
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: the local road access, some whole host of improvements that

457
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: were made to the infrastructure there, and that really opened

458
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: up hundreds of not thousands of acres of land to

459
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: additional industrial development. So it was investment that up and

460
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: Waco McGregor in the state of Texas made not just

461
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: into that lun facility that Kanof was developing, but also

462
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: into opening up additional land for other facilities. And there's

463
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: been other projects there. I don't recall exactly what they are,

464
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: but there have been other other things that have sided there.

465
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: Right, And so you know, we mentioned, you know the

466
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: kind of the regulatory I guess headwinds that you face,

467
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: and you think that they could ease are there anything else,

468
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's you know, Trump's more protectionists kind

469
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 1: of view of the world and trying to attract more

470
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: manufacturing here in the US. You know, even since the

471
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: pandemic where a lot of companies are trying to de

472
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: risk away from China, has that been a good growth

473
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: area for you?

474
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: Like?

475
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: Is that is that fueling growth for a GLS.

476
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, we hear a lot about restoring,

477
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: and it's not that I have never done a restoring project,

478
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 2: but it's more about my clients are thinking about where

479
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: do I put my next dollar, and if they already

480
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: have facilities in China or even in another life location

481
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: that is geographically remote, they're thinking about how do I

482
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: de risk my supply chain. And one of the ways

483
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: to do that is to just get closer to your

484
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: customers and closer to your raw materials.

485
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: So I have.

486
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 2: Definitely seen an alignment of supply chains along more more

487
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: north south rather than east west. So you know, the

488
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: America's Europe with North Africa and then and then Asia,

489
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: and I think that that will continue. I think that

490
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: the geopolitical issues that are not necessarily unique to Trump,

491
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 2: but are particularly salient in in Trump's uh, in Trump's

492
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: world are driving that investment. I will say right now

493
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: that we we typically see a slow down in election years,

494
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: not so much of companies thinking about where they're going

495
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: to go, but actually making decisions. And we certainly saw

496
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: that in UH twenty twenty four.

497
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: I guess because the uncertainty.

498
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: They don't the uncertainty. Yeah, and a lot of times,

499
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: you know, by by September, so they'll start thinking, well,

500
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: I've got to I've got to get ready to make

501
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: a decision, even if I don't know what the ultimate

502
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: answer is going to be, And so the activity level

503
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: will pick back up again. But what I found is

504
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: that it's kind of continued passing it over because even

505
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: though we know who the president was going to be

506
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 2: and now is, it's still pretty uncertain in to what

507
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: the policies where we're going to settle on a policy standpoint,

508
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: I mean twenty five percent Do I make a decision

509
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 2: based on twenty five percent tiar of Sun Mexico or

510
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: do not? Or do I you know? And now do

511
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: I also need to be thinking about Columbia? I Mean,

512
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: it's just so much right noise, and companies really just

513
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: don't like uncertainty. You know, some of these some of

514
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: these policies could be inflationary, which might hurt the business case.

515
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: Even if it's you know not B two C. It's

516
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: still trickling down into these investments are being made. It

517
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: could be not as profitable in an inflationary environment. So

518
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: it's just it's it's really dicey times right now. I

519
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 2: will say that, you know, there's absolutely no doubt in

520
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: my mind that there is more interest in the United

521
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 2: States now than there would be ordinarily. We were already

522
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: very I don't think we need it, to be honest.

523
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the United States in North America

524
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: in general is blessed with you know, great energy. You

525
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: know at demography that says that we will not only

526
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: have a market for decades to come, but they will

527
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: also have workers for decades to come, a market that

528
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 2: is strong and growing and continues to prosper even in

529
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 2: inflationary times. And so it's hard to argue and relative stability,

530
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 2: you know, where we have emoked around us for the

531
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 2: most part, which provides a lot of just intrinsic defensiveness.

532
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: So it's really hard to argue with the US. And

533
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: I think more than anything the cost of energy relative

534
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: to the rest of the world and how that has

535
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: fallen since shale gas started to come online. Is you know,

536
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: done more for the US economy and its competitiveness around

537
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: the world than any IRA or Chips Act or a

538
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 2: thread of tariffs. That more than anything. I say, I

539
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: spent the first ten years of my career and moving

540
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: companies out of the US and spent the second half

541
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 2: of my career moving them back in. And a lot

542
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: of that has to do with energy. We do projects

543
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: or like for example, Identa on a joint venture project

544
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: between CF Industries and Mitsui to do a blue hydrogen

545
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: into ammonia facility in Ascension Parish, Louisiana, and that is

546
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: basically tanking our cheap natural gas, which is plentiful here.

547
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 2: It's blue hydrogen because we were doing carbon capture, converting

548
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: that into ammonia that will then be shipped to Japan

549
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 2: for dispatchful power. So think about all the costs that

550
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 2: are associated with converting, not delivering that natural gas to

551
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 2: the facility, converting it into hydrogen, then it to ammonia,

552
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: putting it onto a ship, shipping it to Japan, and

553
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 2: then re constituting that to hydrogen to burn as energy.

554
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: I mean, think about the cost penalty that applies, like

555
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: Jaapean is having to go through in order to have

556
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: a reliable, dispatchable source of energy. But they're willing to

557
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 2: do it because the alternative is quite grim. We are

558
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: at the luxury that we don't have to think about that.

559
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 2: We are the provider of that energy, right, so puts

560
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: us in a very enviable position.

561
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: So let me ask you a question. So you mentioned

562
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: the first half year career was moving companies out of

563
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 1: the United States, second half of your career was moving

564
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: them back in. Well, let's break it out into thirds.

565
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: So if assumed me, those were the first two.

566
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: So you're telling me I've got a third lest Yeah,

567
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: you got after.

568
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: Working another ten to fourteen years. All right, hopefully you know,

569
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: for another twenty years. But let's just say, looking forward,

570
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: what would the what do you think the next third

571
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: will look like? And I know it's hard to predict

572
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: the future.

573
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, my husband would kill me if

574
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: I work for another ten to fourteen years. But I

575
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 2: can say I think, you know, the next ten years

576
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 2: or so. I really believe that we are in our lifetimes.

577
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: We haven't seen change like this, and we have been

578
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: operating under the assumption that there are there's an international order,

579
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 2: that it's low barriers to trade, low risk of conflict,

580
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: and so you know, the world is flat, right, you know,

581
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: Manufacturing just chases the lowest cost wherever that might be.

582
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 2: And I would argue that we underpriced the risk premium

583
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: for having these global extended supply chains. We underprised that

584
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: for a long time, and then COVID hit us right

585
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 2: between the eyes. And COVID was not so much the

586
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 2: cause of this change, but it was a catalyst. And

587
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: you know, socially economically, there were a lot of implications

588
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: of what we did. I mean, you know, millions, if

589
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: not billions of people were raised out of poverty, but

590
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: relative to the rest of the world, the United States

591
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: did not do as well. And I think that's put

592
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: us into a political environment where we are. So the

593
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 2: pendulum is swinging back the other way.

594
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: So we went.

595
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: From you know, the world is flat to it's suddenly

596
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 2: becoming very very round again. And I think that there

597
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: will be unfortunately, there will be winners and losers in this,

598
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: and we're probably going to give up some of those gains.

599
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: I just don't see the I don't see the end

600
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: in sight right now for at least ten, maybe more years.

601
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: For the United States. I think we are in a

602
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: period of rapid reindustrialization, and it's just a matter of

603
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: can we get the infrastructure in place, can we get

604
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: the power, can we develop the sites. Do we have

605
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: the workforce in order to be able to deliver those projects.

606
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 2: I don't think the momentum is definitely there. It's just

607
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: a matter of how quickly we can deliver on that momentum.

608
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: Gotcha all right, Well, here's to in a few more years.

609
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: How about that?

610
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds good. It's a good time to be

611
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 2: a side selection consultant. I can say that. Lots of changes.

612
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 1: How did you get into the industry.

613
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: Well, I was doing an internship in Argentina for a

614
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: company called Floor Corporation. They're Floor Daniel back then, and

615
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 2: that's where I started my career. And I met a

616
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: guy Ed McCollum. He's sadly passed on, but he was

617
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: allayon in this industry and he was working on a

618
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 2: feasibility study for a copper smelter in Argentina, and so

619
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 2: I was asking him about what he was doing, and

620
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 2: it was just absolutely fascinating. It put together all these

621
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: things that I love, which is travel, solving problems, manufacturing, construction.

622
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 2: And so I asked him, and I was like, let

623
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 2: me get this straight. You fly all over the world

624
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: working with you know, executive c suite determine where is

625
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: the optimal place for them and to build these big

626
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: manufacturing facilities. And he said, yeah, that's right, and it

627
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: and they pay you to do that. I said, I

628
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: would do that for free. Please hire me right now,

629
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 2: and he took me up on it, and so I

630
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 2: moved to Greenville, South Carolina, which is where their sighting

631
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: group was headquartered, and that's where we remain until this day.

632
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 2: And interestingly enough, that's where my parents are faces gron

633
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: but I never lived here, so it's it's definitely become home.

634
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: And now it's you know, it's really my passion to

635
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 2: help companies and communities make a perfect match and grow

636
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 2: and prosper together.

637
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: All right, great, And you know, I asked this with

638
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: a lot of my guests because I'm always just curious, like,

639
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: do you have a favorite book about leadership or business

640
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 1: that's close to your heart that you might have read

641
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: a long time ago or yesterday that that you know,

642
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: you kind of always pull to.

643
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: Well, we run on EOS Entrepreneurial Operating System, so of

644
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 2: course I love you know, traction and rocket fuel. But

645
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 2: I just read Brenane Brown daring greatly and I really

646
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: really loved that book. I think that you know, culture

647
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: with the importance of culture and my business was not

648
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: something that I necessarily could model, but it is definitely

649
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: something that I've learned is so important in how to

650
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: separate your your company from being mediocre to being to

651
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 2: being great.

652
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: So, you know, it sounds like from you know, your

653
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: when you're first getting into the industry. One of the

654
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: attractive things to it was the travel work. Travel can

655
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: be a lot of fun, can be dragged too at times,

656
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, depending where you're staying. Do you have a

657
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: favorite place that you go for fun around the world.

658
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: Well, definitely Buenos Aires. I mean it's, you know, one

659
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: of my favorite places in the world. I love New

660
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: York and I really love a couple of great trip

661
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 2: that I took a couple of years ago as to Georgia,

662
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: the country state, and it's somewhat I'm discovered by Americans

663
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: and it's really phenomenal, the people, the food, the culture,

664
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 2: the majestic beauty of the mountains, and wine making is

665
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 2: you know, it's some of the old wine, oldest wine

666
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 2: making in the world. So I've got to say that

667
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 2: george is one of my favorite places ever.

668
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 1: I'll have to I'll have to check that out because

669
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: I know that with globalization, you can go anywhere and

670
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: you sometimes you feel like you're not too far from

671
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: New York. Sometimes that's right, yeah, exactly.

672
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I'm I'm a little bit concerned that, you know,

673
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: the world is becoming a riskier place, and so if

674
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 2: there's some place you want to go that's uh, you know,

675
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: like Georgia for example, don't don't put it off too long.

676
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: Good to know. Well, well, DDI, I really want to

677
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: thank you for your time and insights. This is a

678
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: great conversation, great Thank you so much.

679
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: It was a pleasure being here and.

680
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for too tuning in. If

681
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: you liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review.

682
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: We've lined up a number of great guests for the podcast,

683
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: so check back to hear conversations with c SPIT executives, shippers, regulators,

684
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: and decision makers within the freight markets. Also, if you

685
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: have an idea for a future episode, please hit me

686
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: up on the Bloomberg terminal. We're on Twitter at logistics Lee.

687
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: And quickly before I go, I just want to give

688
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: a shout out to White, what might be the youngest

689
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: fan of the Talking Transports podcast. The other week, I

690
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: was at my thirteen year old son's basketball game and

691
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: one of his buddies came up to me and told

692
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: me that he loved the podcast. So thanks for that,

693
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: and I hope you keep listening, Nate, So thank thank you.

694
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,720
Speaker 1: So with that, I have a great day, great week,

695
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: and a great year. Take care everyone,