1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Hey, Hurdlarry's Emily a body here. Welcome to episode twenty 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: nine of Hurdle, a podcast that talks to top CEOs 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: and entrepreneurs about how they got through tough times hurdles 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: of sorts by leaning into wellness. Today, I'm chatting with 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: Andy Puttacum. He's the co founder and voice of Headspace. 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: I say this to Andy first thing in the episode, 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: but this one just really blew me out of the 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: water for a few reasons. First of all, when I 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: made my dream guest list almost a year ago for 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: who I wanted to have on this podcast, Andy's name 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: was right at the top of it. Plus, I listened 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: to his voice almost every single day using the Headspace 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: app in my living room on my couch through my SONA, 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: so sitting with him in person was kind of a trip. 15 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: Before we get into Andy's story, shout out to the 16 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: sponsor of today's episode, Athletic Greens, complete with twelve servings 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: of fruits and vegetables. Having the greens powder first thing 18 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: in the morning before I head out the door makes 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: me feel like a better me. They're offering a special 20 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 1: deal for Hurdle listeners. It's twenty free travel packs valued 21 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: at ninety nine dollars With your first purchase, just go 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: on over to Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle to claim it. 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: No code necessary Again, that's Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle. 24 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: Now let's talk about Andy. Born in Bristol, England, he 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: dropped out of university where he was studying sports science 26 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,839 Speaker 1: after some friends were horrifically killed in a freak car 27 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: accident early on Christmas morning. Three months later, his stepsister 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: was run over while riding her bike. Hoping to process 29 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: the trauma, and he went off to Asia in search 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: of meaning. For ten years, he studied meditation as a 31 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: Buddhist monk. His journey then brought him back to London, 32 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: where friends suggested he meet Rich Pearson, a super creative 33 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: guy with an advertising background that would eventually become Putcomb's 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: co founder of Headspace, an idea that he once described 35 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: as the Nike Plus of mindfulness. Now, if you've never 36 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: used Headspace, and I don't know that many people that haven't. 37 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: It's essentially an app that makes meditation simple, with hundreds 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: of theme sessions on everything from stress and sleep to 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: focus and anxiety. They've actually got these SOS exercises in 40 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: case of sudden meltdowns, which I personally am a huge 41 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: fan of using around like three pm in the afternoon 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: during the work week. The app now boasts an astonishing 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: thirty million members and one million paid subscribers. If you 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: haven't checked it out, I strongly encourage you to do so. 45 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: They've got everything from one minute to twenty minute to 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: thirty minute options on there, so there's a flavor and 47 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: style for absolutely everyone. Spoiler alert. Also, today's podcast finishes 48 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: up with Andy leaving me and in turn in all 49 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: of you and a brief meditation, so you'll be able 50 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: to get a sneak peek a little flavor of all. 51 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: This all goes down over there on the app. As 52 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: always Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, follow along at Hurdle Podcast and 53 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: the wake of Thanksgiving now is just the perfect time 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: to tell you, guys how much I I'm so grateful 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: for you, so thankful for you. If you were following 56 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: along with Hurdle on Instagram last week, you probably saw 57 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: me absolutely freaking out with excitement when Hurdle landed on 58 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: the Apple Podcast Top ten chart over on the Fitness 59 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,839 Speaker 1: and Nutrition page, So Thank you. Please keep sharing engaging. 60 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: It's just so special to be able to connect with 61 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: all of you so often. It's the best part of 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: all of this. Shoot me an email Emily at hurdle 63 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: dot us to say hi or share a hurdle moment 64 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: of your own. I think that's it, and with that, 65 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: let's get to hurdling. I'm in the studio today with 66 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: Andy Putticum. I uh, this is kind of surreal for 67 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: me right now. You know, when I concepted Hurdle and 68 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: I thought about the people that I wanted to come 69 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: into this room before even knowing this room existed. You 70 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: were probably the first or second person I wrote down 71 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: well and yeah, thank you. So it's amazing. Andy is 72 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: the co founder and voice of Headspace. I feel like 73 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: people probably tell you all the time that it's weird 74 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: to talk to you in person. 75 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: I do get that quite a lot. I get a 76 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: quite a lot, and I also get a lot it's normally 77 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 2: kind of in airports and restaurants and stuff where I 78 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: meet people who use headspace, and they often tell me 79 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: that they use headspace to go to sleep, and so 80 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: I'm always a little worried when I speak to people 81 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: are going to sort of slowly kind of doze off 82 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: or just pass out, but hopefully it doesn't happen. 83 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: During today's I'm glad I'm sitting here with a cup 84 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: of coffee. It's safe for me to say that I 85 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: think most everyone I know has either dabbled in or 86 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: uses headspace regularly, which is not a surprise because headspace 87 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: now has more than thirty million members, which is unreal. 88 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: That's a lot. Yeah, I know, it's I think it's 89 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: still you know, we set out to do that obviously, 90 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: but it's still a surprise, you know, it's Yeah. 91 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: So why don't you just a quick overview of what 92 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: headspace is before we really dive into it. 93 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: So the way I think about it is that Headspace 94 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 2: gives people the tools that they need to cope with life. 95 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 2: So we all have a mind, and we all struggle 96 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: with our mind sometimes, and it's surprising actually that there 97 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: aren't that many tools out there to help us cope 98 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 2: with our mind. If you think about healthy living generally, 99 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: there are loads of tools out there to help us 100 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: with our physical fitness and with our nutrition and sleep 101 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: and every other kind of aspect. There's not really that 102 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: much to kind of help with with sort of the 103 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: way that we feel, whether we're feeling stressed, whether we're 104 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: feeling anxious, whether they might be feeling kind of sad 105 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 2: or frustrated, or whether we're just simply looking to kind 106 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: of boost certain elements of our life to be more focused, reductive. 107 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,039 Speaker 2: So it is meditation, but I think about it in 108 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 2: a broader sense. I think it's it's about the mind. 109 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 2: It's about the way that we relate to ourselves, and 110 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: it's about the way we relate to the world around us. 111 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: And of course when someone opens the Headspace app, it's 112 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: not a one track for all users. There's a lot 113 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: of options. 114 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: There's a lot of options, do you know when we 115 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: first started and when we first launched the Apple sproke 116 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: about seven years ago. We launched company about ten years ago, 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: but we launched the app seven years ago, there was 118 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: just one route. So I did three hundred and sixty 119 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: five days, and I sat in a recording studio for 120 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 2: a long time and did every single kind of day, 121 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: you know, and it progressed and took people on a journey, 122 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: and people who were into it was great. There's a 123 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: bit like getting on a train. You're either kind of 124 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: staying on that train till the end to the destination, 125 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 2: or you're kind of getting off. And people would say, well, 126 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 2: right now, I'm struggling with my relationships, and you don't 127 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: get to relationships until like month five. So one of 128 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: my how do I apply my mind this's to my 129 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: relationships right now. So we change it to a sort 130 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: of a modular system where there are a packs that 131 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: you can do, so packs on relationships or on stress, 132 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 2: or on anxiety. So it just means that you can 133 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: sort of personalize your own journey a little bit. 134 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: Great. So when you say a pack, it's like I 135 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: click on this section that says relationships and for. 136 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: It could be a ten day course, it could be 137 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: a thirty day course, or it could just be a 138 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: one off single, like just a one off ten fifteen 139 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: to twenty minute exercise. 140 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: And Headspace offers free meditation, but then it also offers 141 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: different opportunities to buy in if you want kind of 142 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: to level up your experience. 143 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we set out when we started, we wanted 144 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: to make sure that whatever whatever we did, we would 145 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: always make meditation available for everybody. So that kind of 146 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: it kind of dictated the model that we have, which 147 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: is a freemium model. So yeah, there are there are 148 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: some people who've used headspace for years and never paid anything, 149 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: and that makes me really happy kind of that they're 150 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: able to do that. But for people who want to 151 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: go deeper in certain areas, then yeah you can, you 152 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: can subscribe. 153 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: I just want to check. You said freemium. Yeah, like 154 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: and premium. That's in one word, that's that's a real thing. 155 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: At least he's on the West Coast. 156 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: It's a whole new language out there. So why don't 157 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: we backjock a little bit. Obviously Headspace didn't get founded overnight. 158 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: You didn't start talking meditations over night. So why don't 159 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: you tell me about where you're from, how you were 160 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: brought up. 161 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: So I was I'd say fairly kind of traditional kind 162 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: of household, but with a very very progressive mum. My 163 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: grandparents were doing yoga and having acupuncture back in the 164 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: fifties in London, and yeah, my mom had kind of 165 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: grown up in that household, and so she was working 166 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: in stress management and she was doing kind of relaxation 167 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: stuff with people and even going into businesses like back 168 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 2: in their eighties. So it was a long time ago, 169 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: and so that was kind of all around me, and 170 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 2: we learned meditation from the age of ten or eleven, 171 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: and I think it was probably kind of It was 172 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: later on, it's probably my late teens that I kind 173 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: of became more interested in it and then eventually went 174 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: on to become a Buddhist monk. 175 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: When you say you were doing meditation at age ten, 176 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: what did that look like in your home? 177 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: That looked like sitting cross legged on my bed for 178 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: twenty minutes a day. And we started off back in 179 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: those days. There wasn't loads of stuff available. There wasn't 180 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: a lot of choice when it came to meditation. We 181 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: started off with transcendental meditation. And then as I, as 182 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: I kind of read and as I learned more, as 183 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: kind of getting older, became more interested in the Buddhist traditions, 184 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: and yeah, it eventually kind of went off to study 185 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: as a monk. 186 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: This is so interesting to me. I think a lot 187 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: of people have this misconception of what mindfulness and meditation is. 188 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you said it, you said, probably the one 189 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: thing that a lot of people think about it's sitting 190 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: cross legged on your bed. Some people think you're supposed 191 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: to have like some sort of special candle lit and 192 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: stages burning. But that's not really all that it is. 193 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: It's definitely not what it is. There's a good reason 194 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 2: that I'm no longer a monk, you know. I think 195 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: it was for you know, I could see how useful 196 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: the skill was a tour was, and how people were 197 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: put off by all those barriers, where it's cultural barriers, length, 198 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,559 Speaker 2: linguistic barriers, whether it's the idea of wearing funny clothes 199 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: or sitting cross legged, and you don't need to do 200 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: any of that stuff. And so I kind of felt 201 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 2: really passionate that there was a way of presenting meditation 202 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: where it's for all of us, you know, And you 203 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: can sit on a chair, you can lie on the floor. 204 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 2: You don't have to do it for an hour. You 205 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 2: can do it for three minutes and still get some 206 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: kind of benefit out of it. You don't have to 207 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 2: use a funny, strange sounding foreign mantra. You can just 208 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 2: focus on your breath. That's enough. So I feel like 209 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: the way this sort of I guess, new kind of 210 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 2: secular way of presenting meditation has opened the doorway for 211 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 2: people to try it in a way that had never 212 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: really been available in the past. Before. 213 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: I mean, on my way down here, I opened the 214 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: Headspace commuting pack, right, Yeah, yeah, that's and honestly, as 215 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: someone who for years now has been trying to figure 216 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: out what her ideal practices, I try to fit it 217 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: in ideally once a day. Sometimes for me kind of 218 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: an unconventional time is around three thirty four o'clock when 219 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: I feel like I need a break from my work. 220 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: But I'm a weak enough to do it because I 221 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: tried doing it first thing in the morning, and for me, 222 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: it just yeah, isn't always It doesn't always work that way. 223 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: Something different for everyone, you know, so people always say 224 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: it kind of when should I do it? I think 225 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: that my recommendation is that you at least try it 226 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: in the morning, but not everyone's a morning person, so 227 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 2: that's not going to work for everybody. But for those 228 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: people who get on with it in the morning, it 229 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 2: means you do it and it doesn't get forgotten and 230 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: so many things going on in our life, sometimes it 231 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 2: can slip down the to do list. It kind of 232 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: helps often people transition from sleep to sort of the 233 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: waking day or a bit more alert, a bit more focused. 234 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: And it also my one of my favorite this is 235 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 2: Years and years ago, this guy wrote in said, look, 236 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 2: the meditation is nice. I like it. But the biggest 237 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 2: thing I like about headspace is that when I do 238 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: it first thing in the day, I make better choices 239 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: throughout my day when it comes to health and wellbeing. 240 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: I'm more likely to go to the gym. I'm more 241 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: likely to be aware of what food I'm eating and 242 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: why I'm eating it, and those kind of things. So 243 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: it's almost like we start the day in the way 244 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: that we mean to go on, but everyone's different, and 245 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: the most important thing is just to prioritize it in 246 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: your day at some stage. My one kind of bit 247 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: of advice is that maybe the kind of maybe try 248 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: not to leave it till last thing at night. Lots 249 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: of people will lie down to do it in their 250 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: bed at bedtime, and it's highly likely that you're going 251 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 2: to fall asleep at some stage. 252 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: If I if I'm listening to that you're smooth the 253 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: boys at night, I am nine times out of ten asleep. 254 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: Not that okay, I have to say that you're a 255 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: bosone that puts everybody. 256 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,719 Speaker 2: I don't take that at all personally. I think it's 257 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: a good thing, you know, I need rest. 258 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: Okay, So in nineteen ninety four you kind of began 259 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: your ten year training at some of the greatest Buddhist 260 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: centers throughout Asia. But I don't feel like everyone just 261 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: one day says to themselves, man like, this is exactly 262 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: my calling is to be a Buddhist monk. 263 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look growing up, you would if if you'd 264 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 2: have met me at sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, even twenty, 265 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: there's no way you'd have been like, yeah, this guy 266 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 2: is going to be a monk. I wasn't living as 267 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: a monk, and I definitely wasn't behaving as a monk. 268 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: And I was living kind of a normal life, you know, 269 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: of a student and doing all that stuff. 270 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: So I went to you went to university. I in London. 271 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: I'm just outside London, and I got about a year 272 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 2: a year into it. And prior to going away to university, 273 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 2: there are a couple of things that had happened and 274 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: they were real kind of turning points for me in 275 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: my life. One was being involved in a car accident. 276 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: There was a big group of us standing on the 277 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: sidewalk Christmas morning after a party at Christmas Eve, and 278 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 2: a drunk driver crashed into the group and I was 279 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: on the outside of the group, so I didn't get 280 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: I didn't get hit, but twelve people kind of went 281 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: to hospital. Two of them died. And it was Although 282 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 2: it wasn't immedia, I didn't kind of immediately go away 283 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: and think what am I going to do with my life? 284 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 2: I think it set something in motion where I was 285 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: kind of forced to ask myself what was life about 286 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: and how was I going to find meaning and purpose 287 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: in my own life? And as that was kind of 288 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: beginning to sort of cultivate or steer a little bit, 289 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: my stepsister got run over as well, and she died 290 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: in a bicycle accident, so probably about six months later. 291 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: So I think those two things too, Yeah, they kind 292 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: of started this, yeah, this this search, if you like. 293 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: And I think it's really easy kind of when those 294 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: things happen, Like, we don't grow up learning how to 295 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: deal with those things, right, so it's really easy to 296 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 2: turn to I don't know, alcohol or drugs or some 297 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: kind of distraction to get us away from it. And 298 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: you know, of course, like any person growing up, I 299 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: dabbled with things. But the problem is you always then 300 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: wake up the next day and your mind is in 301 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 2: the same place as it was before, so the distraction 302 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: is temporary. So I just started to think kind of, 303 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: you know, I needed I needed something kind of a 304 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 2: bit more, you know, long lasting, and it wasn't so 305 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: I knew it was something that I couldn't get from 306 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: a book. The doctor tried to convince me it was 307 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: something that you could find in a bottle of medication. 308 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 2: I didn't believe that. I hadn't grown up with that philosophy. 309 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 2: There are times and places for that stuff, but that 310 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: wasn't for me then. And so yeah, eventually I came 311 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 2: to the conclusion that I should I should go off 312 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: and find that environment in which I could really understand 313 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 2: my mind and find the kind of peace of mind 314 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: that I was looking for. 315 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: And at that time, were you talking to a therapist 316 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: or anyone to try to work through some of these issues. 317 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: I did, so I went for about six months, I 318 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: saw a therapist. So as my mum worked in that 319 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 2: kind of industry, she worked as a therapist as well, 320 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: and so yeah, I went to see one of her 321 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: friends for a little while, for about six months or so, 322 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: and it was useful, you know, I think it was 323 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: important to be able to express some of those things 324 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: that I hadn't really been able to articulate very well 325 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 2: or understand. I don't think the therapy necessarily led to 326 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 2: going off and becoming a monk, right, but it definitely 327 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: created an environment in which I felt more able to 328 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: more confident, I guess to say, Okay, this is how 329 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 2: I feel, and this is what I'm going to do. 330 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 2: Because it's a big thing to go home to your 331 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: housemates at university, to go home to your parents and 332 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: kind of say, hey, you know what, I'm going to 333 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: drop out a universe. I love you guys, but I'm 334 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 2: going to head off to India and I'm going to 335 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: become a monk. Not everyone you can probably imagine. Not 336 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: everyone's like super jazz by that idea. My dad maybe 337 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,360 Speaker 2: thought I joined a cult. My friends at university kind 338 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: of felt a bit not let down. But you know why, 339 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: was I kind of leaving like halfway through. So it 340 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 2: took a degree of sort of confidence. 341 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: If you liked to do that at the time. Were 342 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: you contemplating any other options? 343 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: Not really? 344 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: No, No, did you know anyone that had done this? 345 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 2: No? I did have. I had a at the time 346 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: I was going out with this girl at college university, 347 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: and she was really into kind of Buddhism and meditation 348 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 2: and stuff, and she'd been reading a lot of books 349 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: and she was always kind of telling me, you know, 350 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: how inspiring it was these monks, these nuns that kind 351 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: of sit there and they meditate all day. And yeah, 352 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I thought she was crazy, but you know, 353 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: I was kind of like at the time, I was like, 354 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: I'm not sure I'm quite there. And then but at 355 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 2: some level that was all kind of going in and 356 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: when it came to it, it was probably the one 357 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 2: of the easiest decisions. Is a big decision, but it's 358 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: probably one of the easiest decisions I've ever made. 359 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: It felt right. 360 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that you know, when you can't call it, 361 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 2: you got your heart but that are calling. But when 362 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 2: you know something so that with such a sense of purpose, yeah, 363 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: purpose that it doesn't matter what other thoughts are there, 364 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: whether its doubts or there's anxiety or anything, you just 365 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 2: kind of know. I honestly felt in that moment like 366 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: I had no other choice in my life. 367 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: And that can be applicable to a lot of different 368 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: things in life. Right. Absolutely, sometimes you just know what 369 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: you got to do, You got to follow you got 370 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: you gotta trust what's going on inside. 371 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 2: I would say, not just sometimes. You know, I'm a 372 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: big believer that we create a lot of noise in 373 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 2: our in our thinking mind, and often our thinking mind obscure. 374 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: Is that feeling, that sense, that connection with our intuition. 375 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: Our intuition is pretty good. You know. The more time 376 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 2: we can spend with that sense, generally, the more smoothly 377 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 2: kind of life goes. So as much as possible, you know, 378 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 2: I try to step out of my thinking mind and 379 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 2: be kind of present with what he called intuition or 380 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 2: quiet confidence, that that feeling where you kind of you 381 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 2: just know it's the right thing to do. 382 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: I think what's really impressive is not just that you 383 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: were so confident in following that inner voice, but also 384 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: that you were able to articulate and express how you 385 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: felt at that time. With menah, I feel like they 386 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: have a difficult time expressing how they feel. 387 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, don't get me wrong. You know I definitely 388 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 2: didn't have it sort of completely down at that time, 389 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 2: and I really struggled with with certain friends, so friends 390 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: that i'd kind of grown up with, you know, all 391 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 2: they kind of knew of me as a friend was 392 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 2: you know, I played rugby with them, I'd go down 393 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 2: a pub with them and drink, you know, And so 394 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: we didn't really kind of have a small town We 395 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: didn't have that kind of it is a very different 396 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: times a long time ago. We didn't have that kind 397 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 2: of relationship where we could, you know, discuss things in 398 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: that way. So I had to I won't say be creative, 399 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 2: but I definitely had to find routes in with each 400 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,959 Speaker 2: of those people. And some of them understood it, and 401 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 2: some of them didn't. Those who didn't over time, I 402 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: think have watched the journey and now kind of yeah, 403 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: maybe maybe a little more accepting of how it's gone. 404 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: I can only imagine the people that looked at you 405 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: then like you were crazy, and now they see how 406 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: wildly popular this thing that you've created out of all 407 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: of this experience has become. 408 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, but they also kind of those people I think 409 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 2: that's really important in life to whether it's family or 410 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 2: or friends, you know, those are also the people that 411 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: have known me my entire life, and they wouldn't care 412 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: like how popular it became. They wouldn't kind of care 413 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 2: about any of that stuff. I'm still just Andy or 414 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 2: PUDs as they call me. Back home. Yeah, I really 415 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 2: I love going back into those environments where we kind 416 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: of we reconnect, you know, when the old school friends 417 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,719 Speaker 2: and stuff. There's something there which is really special. I 418 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: think it's not that you necessarily have so much in common. 419 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 2: I remember coming back from the monastery and meeting up 420 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 2: with them all and I realized that, oh wow, we've 421 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: been doing really different things for the last ten years. 422 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 2: We might not have loads to chat about, but there's 423 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 2: always that kind of connection there from when you grow up. 424 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: So talk to me about the ten year period between 425 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four and two thousand and four. Yeah, like 426 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: I highlight real sure. 427 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: The first thing to say is that I wasn't a 428 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 2: monk the entire time. You don't just go and knock 429 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: on the door and say can I become a monk 430 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 2: now please? And they give you the ropes you kind 431 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: of got. No, yea, I earned them. But you know, 432 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: there is a there's a process you go through. You 433 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: train as a layperson, then as a novice monk, and 434 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 2: then you take full ordination as a as a Buddhist monk. 435 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: I started in the Burmese school of meditation sort of 436 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: Southeast Asia, which is it looks quite austere. So for 437 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 2: people not that familiar with the different traditions of Buddhism, 438 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: it's probably quite a lot of people. There's the monks 439 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 2: with the kind of like orangey kind of robes you know, 440 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 2: you might see in Thailand and Lao and Vietnam, and yeah, 441 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 2: sort of shrinker that part of the world. It's fairly 442 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 2: kind of fairly austere, and it was brilliant in terms 443 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: of creating a foundation. But for me, I felt that 444 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 2: I was still although I had sort of learned the 445 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 2: skill of meditation to some degree and I had a 446 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 2: sense of greatest center piece, there was some element that 447 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 2: still felt like it was kind of missing in some way. 448 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 2: And I was very fortunate to meet a Tibetan rim 449 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 2: she Tibetan lama, and I was so kind of struck 450 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: by his warmth, by his kindness, his compassion is understanding 451 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 2: that I kind of I made the choice to to 452 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 2: sort of follow that tradition, and so I went off 453 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: to India and I became I became a Tibetan Buddhist, 454 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 2: Tibetan Buddhist monk, and there was a lot more focus 455 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: on I felt on compassion. It was really like the 456 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 2: starting point that we don't meditate for ourselves. We meditate 457 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: for the benefit of others. None of us live in 458 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: isolation in the world, and if our starting point is 459 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 2: one of altruism, empathy, and compassion, then we will naturally 460 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 2: find happiness ourselves for ourselves on that journey. So for me, 461 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: that was kind of what really resonated and what ultimately 462 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 2: allowed me to find that sort of peace of mind 463 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 2: that I was looking for. 464 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: Where along the journey do you kind of decide that 465 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: you're good, like I'm good being here, It's time for 466 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: me to get back to maybe what I was doing before, 467 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: or did you know while you were over there how 468 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: you saw this integrating back into some sort of more normal. 469 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: Reasons I love to be I'd love to tell you 470 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: that I had that kind of insight, but I didn't, 471 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 2: you know I it. In fact, three years before I 472 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: kind of finished my training, I was still at a 473 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 2: stage where I kind of thought I'd probably be a 474 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: month for the rest of my life, and I was 475 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 2: open to that idea. So I asked my teacher and 476 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 2: I said, you know, I was telling I was about 477 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 2: to take another commitment. I think at the time it 478 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: was like one years, three years, or life, you know, 479 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 2: And I said, I I feel like I want to 480 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,639 Speaker 2: do it for life, but I trust kind of your 481 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,239 Speaker 2: judgment more than more than mine. So I'd like you 482 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 2: to decide for me. If you say life, I'd do 483 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: it for life. 484 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: And by this idea of just putting your entire life 485 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: on nobody else's hands, I mean, it's not like renewing 486 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: like your Netflix. 487 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 2: Subscribe as you say it, like, yeah, I realized it 488 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 2: could sound quite quite strange, but I had a huge 489 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: amount of trust based on experience kind of with this teacher, 490 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: and so I handed it over to it and he said, well, 491 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 2: I think, you know, let's do like another three years 492 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: and sort of see see how it goes. And eventually 493 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 2: the monastery had me go and teach meditation at a 494 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 2: meditation center in Moscow and Russia. And whilst I was 495 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 2: living there, I that was when I would say it 496 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: was the beginning of starting to find a different language, 497 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: because I was essentially I was a monk but living 498 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: in a city, so I was kind of living the 499 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 2: life that everyone else was living. But at the same 500 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: time somewhat separate from it, and I could see that 501 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 2: the way I was dressed and everything else kind of 502 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: that was definitely a barrier and an obstacle. And people 503 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: coming along to the meditation center, there was regular people. 504 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 2: They'd come along after work and stuff, and so it 505 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 2: was kind of realizing that there was an opportunity to 506 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 2: present this, as I say, in a way that hadn't 507 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: been presented before, maybe without the ropes. And finally a 508 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 2: guy came in and said, look, I'd love you to 509 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 2: come and work with my execs at work. They're really 510 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: stressed out, but you can't come dressed like that. And 511 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: that got me thinking, you know, do I want to 512 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: be a monk or do I want to teach meditation? 513 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: I could do both, but there was an opportunity to 514 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 2: kind of teach meditation in a new way. So that 515 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 2: was how that's how it began. 516 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: So, I mean, obviously, the amount of lessons you learned 517 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: during that time are limitless. If you had to kind 518 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: of articulate one or two of the biggest takeaways from 519 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: that ten year period, I mean, and there's going to 520 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: be so many more takeaways in our conversation over the 521 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: next little bit. But do you have kind of something 522 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: that you go back to regularly from that time in 523 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: your life. 524 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as much as possible, I just try 525 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: and you know, kind of be present now and I 526 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: don't really kind of spend a lot of time thinking 527 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 2: about the past and kind of what I did in 528 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 2: the past. It was an incredibly special time. I feel 529 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 2: very fortunate to have done it. I would never change anything, 530 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 2: you know, it was really valuable time. I think the 531 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 2: most people, probably people are spoken to imagine that when 532 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 2: you go away to a monastery or a nunnery, whatever 533 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: it might be, you're going to sit there on a 534 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 2: mountaintop completely blissed out, kind of you know, your mind's 535 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,479 Speaker 2: going to acquire, and you get that a little bit 536 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 2: to begin with. It's like the honeymoon phase. And then 537 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 2: there's the realization that, oh wow, like I have to 538 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 2: sit with my mind every day and there's no distraction. 539 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: So I think the greatest kind of lesson that it 540 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 2: taught me was to be willing to be with my 541 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 2: mind as it is. So typically we go through life 542 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 2: and we're chasing after pleasant thoughts and we're trying to 543 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 2: get away from unpleasant thoughts. When you do a lot 544 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 2: of meditation, there's no choice but to sit with the 545 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 2: mind as it is, and you start to see that actually, 546 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: if you don't get too involved with all that thinking, 547 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: there's actually those thoughts come and go. 548 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: I feel like I mean, I feel like, though, I've 549 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: got to say it that. Don't you think at the 550 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: beginning making this decision, after those truly difficult moddle moments 551 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: as we call them in this room, was you trying 552 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: to get away from some unpleasant thoughts. 553 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's almost inevitable. I don't think there's 554 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 2: any other way. In fact, if you speak to most 555 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 2: people who go down that route, it's the realization of 556 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,479 Speaker 2: suffering in life that's led them on that journey. So, 557 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: but that turns it into something really powerful, you know. 558 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: So now when I look back at those things, of course, 559 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: it's always it's heartbreaking to think of people that lost 560 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: and the impact that it had on their families and 561 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 2: our family and everything else. But I see it in 562 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 2: a very different way now. You know, it had such 563 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: a positive impact on my own life and on my 564 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: own journey, and so yeah, I think often we look 565 00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 2: back at things and see them as bad things, failures 566 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: or difficulties, but then actually when we kind of see 567 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: how those things play out, very often they have a 568 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: really kind of positive impact. It the same way. I 569 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: was chatting with someone the other day and we were 570 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: talking about a few years back eye cancer, and they 571 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: were saying, kind of would you want that to have 572 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: played out kind of differently? And I was like, actually, no, 573 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: it was such a positive experience. I don't know how 574 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 2: else to describe it. You know, it was one it 575 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 2: was before we had children. I experienced some amazing time 576 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 2: off with my wife and we had the best time, 577 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: and it was difficult and it was challenging, but the 578 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 2: meditation during that time kind of helped me so much 579 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: and facing some of those bigger challenges in life. I 580 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 2: think kind of just create this atmosphere of gratitude and 581 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: appreciation and help to kind of redefine what our purpose 582 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 2: and meaning is in life, and we can choose kind 583 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: of how we relate to those things and what we 584 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 2: do with them. 585 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: What a perspective to have. I think it's admirable and 586 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: I think it's something that I can say that I 587 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: myself definitely try to take a step back and look 588 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: at the challenging times and the good times, both with 589 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: their equal amount of purpose. 590 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 591 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: I think it takes a strong person, especially in the 592 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: challenging times, to eventually be able to look back and 593 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: take the lessons from it. Things that we could see 594 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: as failures are often the things that teach us the most. 595 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think the temptation some people kind 596 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 2: of will inevitably kind of say I don't feel I 597 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: can do that, or it's too difficult, it's too painful. 598 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: The thing that meditation I find so helpful is that 599 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 2: it allows us to let go of that storyline, so 600 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: we might kind of think, oh, I'm not that kind 601 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: of person I could never do Okay, that's just a thought, 602 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 2: see the thought, let it go, and then all of 603 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 2: a sudden, you're not that kind of person anyway. Like 604 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 2: you can just we all have the ability to be present, 605 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: to find a quiet confidence within ourselves, to listen to 606 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 2: our intuition, and to lead a life that we would 607 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 2: like to live. It's just that we get so caught 608 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,719 Speaker 2: up in the thinking mind that we forget that. Sometimes. 609 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: I think that it's so funny. We get these ideas 610 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: about ourselves that we believe to be facts. So it's 611 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: like I'll look at you and I'll be like, I 612 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: have brown hair and I'm scared of heights. But the 613 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: reality is that I have brown hair and I feel 614 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: as though I'm scared of heights. Yeah, that doesn't mean, 615 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's bigger than that. It's bigger than that. 616 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 2: I work with people all the time kind of who 617 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: will say they're, you know, they're feeling a certain kind 618 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: of way about themselves, and I'm this kind of person. 619 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: And then when they actually sort of sit and we 620 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 2: chat kind of a few weeks later, a few months later, 621 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: they realize that actually that storyline in their mind that 622 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: they've been carrying around often for years and years, sometimes 623 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: even decades, that's an old storyline. It has no relevance 624 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 2: or truth to their life as they know it right now. 625 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: And that's kind of for me, that's you know, people 626 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 2: think about enlightenment kind of a big, kind of massive 627 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: For me, like, that's kind of like enlightenment in life. 628 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 2: It's the realization that we're free, and so if we 629 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 2: can use meditation to kind of free ourselves from the 630 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: storylines of our mind, to not be overwhelmed, to not 631 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: be kind of to live this life of confusion, then 632 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, life starts to look and feel 633 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: very very different. 634 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: Quick break from today's episode to give the sponsor, Athletic 635 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: Greens a little bit of love. 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Right, 644 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: especially when they're offering a super awesome deal to hurdle 645 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: listeners for twenty free travel packs. That's a ninety nine 646 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: dollars value with your first purchase. Just head on over 647 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: to Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle to claimant no code necessary. Again, 648 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: that's Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle. Let's get back to it. 649 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm sitting here with Andy, the voice of Headspace. I 650 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: love that I love that title co founder and the 651 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: voice of that space. I'm still like having an out 652 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: of body experience in this room. What I think that 653 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: now I'm most in just to know is about how 654 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: the gears shift, because I know that in twenty ten 655 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: when Headspace first launched and launched as an events company. Yeah, 656 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: so talk to me about that. 657 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I was working when I went back to 658 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: the UK from Asia. I started working in sort of 659 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 2: private practice. I found a doctor who was very progressive 660 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: interested in mindfulness. Mindfulness was gus beginning to enter sort 661 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: of mainstream medicine a long time ago, and through that 662 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: I met I met now my very dear friend and 663 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 2: co founder, Rich, and we started talking kind of about 664 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 2: what it would look like to take it outside of 665 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: a room working one to one with people and into 666 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 2: a sort of to a bigger audience if you like. 667 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 2: And Rich suggested the very first time we met, he said, 668 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 2: we should just do the Nike Plus of meditation. Nike 669 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: Plus had only come out, I think about six months before. 670 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: Apps had only come out twelve months before. I had 671 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 2: no idea what an app was. I'd no idea what 672 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 2: Nike Plus was. And I said to Rich, yeah, I 673 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 2: don't think you can do meditation like digitally. I think 674 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 2: you kind of have to be in the room, you know. 675 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 2: So Rich, I mean love him. He was so kind 676 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 2: of considerate and respectful. He was kind of like, oh okay, yeah, 677 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 2: let's let's do that. Let's do events then instead. So 678 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 2: I wrote a few books and we did events and 679 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 2: that kind of got us. That got us going until 680 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: we were probably kind of two years into that, and 681 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 2: people who were coming to the thing. I think this 682 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 2: happens really often. They came along and said, Wow, I 683 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 2: feel really inspired, But what do I do when I 684 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 2: go home? And this happens a lot. You know, people 685 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 2: will go and retreat or they do New Year things 686 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 2: and it's like this big moment and then what happens 687 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 2: to the rest of the time. And Rich said, well, 688 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 2: maybe you could just try like recording something and they 689 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: could take it home with them. So we did, and 690 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: people liked it, and then people wanted more. So we 691 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: made an app. 692 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,479 Speaker 1: Did the two of you ever think that the both 693 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: of you should talk on the app? No, it was 694 00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: always just. 695 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: You, Yeah, because it would have been we're like, you know, 696 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 2: one of our one of our sort of anchors or 697 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,240 Speaker 2: one of our values if you like, is is authenticity? 698 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,479 Speaker 2: And Rich didn't train in meditation. He's I have to say, 699 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 2: since that day I met him, just over ten years ago, 700 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: he's never missed a day of meditation and he meditates 701 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 2: for an hour every single day. So I mean he's 702 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: he's committed as a as a student, there's no doubt. 703 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 2: But his background was in in creative development and sort 704 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 2: of marketing. So what Rich could bring to it was 705 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 2: this amazing lens of like, you know, how should this look? 706 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 2: How should it feel? Kind of what what would our 707 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 2: friends like? What would get our friends to actually give? 708 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 2: What would it take to get our friends to actually 709 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 2: try meditation? Because meditation is in the experience. It's not 710 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 2: in the hearing about it. It's not about the reading 711 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 2: about it. It's in actually sitting down and doing it. 712 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: Sidestep, Yeah, how long do you meditate every day? 713 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 2: He varies. So I have a fixed practice that so 714 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,839 Speaker 2: when you're at the monastery, depending on what route you go, 715 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 2: I took quite a medicine if route in the monastery, 716 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 2: So I made certain commitments are for life and regardless 717 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 2: of whether you're a monk or not, So I still 718 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 2: do those kind of every single day, and then if 719 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 2: I have more time, maybe at lunchtime, then I'll do some. 720 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: Then as well, you gave me no time announce and 721 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: all of that. 722 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and people always want to know, and it's not 723 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 2: really about the length of title. I don't like people 724 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,879 Speaker 2: getting hung up on the time because if I say, 725 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 2: you know a certain amount, then maybe people feel like 726 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 2: they're not doing enough or maybe they're doing too much. 727 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 2: So we know kind of from all the research that's 728 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 2: been done, it's not really about duration. It's about it's 729 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 2: a quality rather than quantity. So when you're starting out, 730 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 2: three minutes is enough, five minutes is enough, ten minutes 731 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: is enough. Don't worry too much about what the old 732 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 2: bolt bloke who when it's sat in the monastery for 733 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,719 Speaker 2: many many years kind of does because it's kind of 734 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 2: not relevant. So what's relevant for you in this moment 735 00:37:59,280 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: right now? 736 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting. I was looking at some 737 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: of the statistics on headspace, and obviously we'll keep going 738 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: with this story, but I'll routell some of them off. 739 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: Three weeks of headspace results in a twenty three percent 740 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: increase in compassion. It also resulted in these in these 741 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: research studies fifty seven percent decrease in aggression. Headspace also 742 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: can reduce stress levels and ten days and then four 743 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: weeks of headspace improves focus by fourteen percent. So I mean, 744 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: you guys were building something that was really impacting people. 745 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, our our our third employee, our second 746 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,720 Speaker 2: paid employee, was a scientist, and we decided really early 747 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 2: on that if this was going to be credible, if 748 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 2: we were going to take this where we wanted to 749 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 2: take it, it was really important to establish it as 750 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 2: you know, as scientifically validated kind of route to health 751 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 2: and health and happiness. So over time we've created a 752 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: whole kind of health team. We're currently working towards FDA 753 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 2: regulation here in with a separate health product here in 754 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 2: the US, and we work with the NHS in the UK. 755 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 2: And I think it's those kinds of studies have really 756 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 2: changed the way in which people view meditation. Back when 757 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 2: I was in the monastery, there was no real way 758 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 2: of kind of knowing, well, it's just making any difference 759 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 2: or am I imagining it? So now you know, you 760 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 2: can stick someone in an MRI machine, a functional MRI machine, 761 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 2: and actually kind of see what's happening to the brain 762 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,600 Speaker 2: over a period of time, and we know that it's 763 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,439 Speaker 2: not just a psychological phenomena, it's a physiological one where 764 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,720 Speaker 2: the brain itself changes shape. It gets thicker and stronger 765 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 2: in the parts where we want it to be thicker 766 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 2: and stronger as we meditate. 767 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: Okay, so you come to this realization that events just 768 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 1: aren't going to cut it. Your back on this kind 769 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: of thought process that like maybe there's a room for 770 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: a Nike plusum meditation. Yeah, how does how do you 771 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 1: pull the trigger? 772 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 2: So we were you know, events is interesting. It's I 773 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 2: don't think we would have had the success we've had 774 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 2: with the app unless we've done events first. The events 775 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 2: taught us everything that we needed to know for the app. 776 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 2: We were in a room with real time, real life 777 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 2: kind of people understanding kind of what was the right 778 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 2: way to talk about it, what exercises work, what didn't. 779 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 2: We were getting immediate feedback. So as that kind of 780 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 2: built up, I think there was just a sense of 781 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 2: we have to do this, and we got offered the 782 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,799 Speaker 2: opportunity to put on the front page. And if you're 783 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 2: familiar with the Guardian newspaper Observer in the UK, so 784 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 2: it's one of the it's one of the biggest ones, 785 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 2: and the biggest month or the biggest week of the 786 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 2: year is early in January kind of you know, when 787 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 2: everyone gets excited about what they're going to do. And 788 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 2: they asked us to write a booklet so on how 789 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 2: to learn meditation, and there's a shoot. We were still 790 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 2: a really kind of small small company. They were going 791 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 2: to pay for it, and they were going to put 792 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: it on the front of every single newspaper, so like 793 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 2: millions of these kind of going out around the country. 794 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 2: And we thought about the opportunity and we were like, well, 795 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 2: imagine if on the back page we could say and 796 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 2: register and subscribe with headspace and it was free, you know, 797 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 2: which for a company starting out there were only a 798 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,479 Speaker 2: couple of us in the company, it was massive, so 799 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 2: that I think kind of encouraged us to pull the trigger. 800 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 2: And yeah, it kind of worked out. 801 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: It's like what they say, it's start before you're ready. 802 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, and we did. We really from that. 803 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,640 Speaker 2: I think because Richard come from marketing and working with 804 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,479 Speaker 2: big brands, he really understood kind of how those could help. 805 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 2: I think there were only three of us in the company, 806 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 2: was rich and I in one unpaid intern when we 807 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 2: went to see Virgin Atlantic and say, hey, guys, you know, 808 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 2: what are people going to do when they fly across 809 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 2: you know, let's put some meditation on your TV channels. 810 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 2: And they were up for it. And all of a sudden, 811 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: you kind of get this leap. It's not just more 812 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 2: people becoming aware of the brand. It's that big brand 813 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 2: that people trust, kind of giving it their standard approval 814 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 2: and giving it credibility. So we've we've partnered a lot 815 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 2: as as we've gone on the journey. 816 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 1: So you have this big opportunity with the newspaper. Yeah, 817 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: and people are signing up everywhere. Yeah, and when do 818 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: these two guys in the UK decide that they need 819 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,800 Speaker 1: to come to the US. 820 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So off the back, I reckon we're probably in 821 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 2: the year or year and a half afterwards. You know, 822 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 2: we probably grew to a team of about twenty in 823 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 2: the UK and we started to think about where we 824 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 2: could be best set for success. And I do think 825 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 2: the US is so forward thinking in terms ofrepreneurship, in 826 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,839 Speaker 2: terms of investment, and on the West Coast definitely kind 827 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 2: of towards kind of health and well being. There's a 828 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 2: there's a leaning towards that. We were particularly interested in 829 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 2: finding an environment where there was a passion for health, 830 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 2: where there was strong technology, strong creative and strong entertainment. Ultimately, 831 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 2: we wanted to be this kind of content media platform 832 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 2: within the health space, and and l a kind of 833 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,720 Speaker 2: ticked a lot of those boxes. We also love to surf, 834 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 2: and we had a dream of getting up every morning 835 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 2: and surfing before we went to work a bad way 836 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 2: for a couple of years until to our kids. But 837 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 2: I think there was there were lots of different reasons. 838 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 2: But professionally, yeah, it was a route to investment, and 839 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,799 Speaker 2: it was a route to getting some of the very 840 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 2: best talent in the world to join. 841 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: The team, for sure. So your headquarters now are in 842 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: Santa Monica. I have been. I went when I was 843 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 1: there earlier this year running around LA recording a ton 844 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: of hurdle podcasts. But when I was there, I loved 845 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: how like wide open and air, and I think when 846 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: I was there it was before. Now your headquarters have 847 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: expanded even more. Yeah, it's a big it's a bigger 848 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: operation on the size. 849 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 2: Of that now. So there's a good few hundred people 850 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 2: now and Santa Monica we have an SF kind of 851 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 2: hub which is more engineering and B to B and 852 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 2: then the London the London crew and also kind of 853 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 2: a small presence in New York. 854 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: When did you realize after making the jump to the 855 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: US that, like you were on this projectory to be 856 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean what it is now? I mean again, we're 857 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: talking thirty million members and one million paying subscribers. 858 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's grown a bit since then as well. 859 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 2: I think too. I would say, if I had to 860 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,959 Speaker 2: kind of, you know, put a pin in the matter, 861 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 2: I would say it's probably it's probably twenty fourteen we 862 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 2: launched the second version of Headspace. It was that, I said, 863 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 2: it was a more kind of modular format. Apple kind 864 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 2: of fell in love with what we were doing and 865 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 2: gave us a lot of promotion, and we suddenly saw this. 866 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 2: It just felt like new people were joining kind of 867 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,880 Speaker 2: all the time. We outgrew our place in Venice Beach 868 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 2: really kind of quickly and moved to Santa Monica, and 869 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 2: I'd say we went through a phase growing from maybe 870 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 2: fifty to like one fifty or one eighty. It just 871 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,239 Speaker 2: seemed to happen in a period of months, right, And 872 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 2: I remember just walking into the office thinking I don't 873 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 2: know any of these people, like who are they? What 874 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 2: are they doing here? And so, you know, I think 875 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 2: operationally a lot of things changed. We became a lot 876 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,800 Speaker 2: more kind of efficient as an organization and started to 877 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 2: hire people who were so much better and so much 878 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,320 Speaker 2: more experienced than we were in any of these things, 879 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,640 Speaker 2: and it was it was just a huge relief to 880 00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 2: be able to kind of hand over some of the 881 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,600 Speaker 2: things that we've been doing ourselves for a long time. 882 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,240 Speaker 1: It's insane, I mean to walk in in a period 883 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: of months and that your team has just grown this exponentially. Yeah, 884 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: did you feel like you were having a lot of 885 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: those pinch me moments or did you ever feel like 886 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: you needed to take a back step? 887 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 2: And just it's interesting for both Rich and there have 888 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 2: been a couple of moments. I've been a couple of 889 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 2: big moments where we've both gone like, Wow, this is 890 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 2: this is crazy. There have not necessarily been moments in 891 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 2: the office. They've been I think more sort of cultural. 892 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 2: So I ain't doing the Tonight Show and meditating with 893 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,000 Speaker 2: Jimmy Fallon and his audience and that for when we're 894 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,600 Speaker 2: in the UK. We always said, right at the very 895 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,319 Speaker 2: beginning kind of we would feel like we had moved 896 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 2: the conversation on in meditation if one night we could 897 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,360 Speaker 2: be on a live chat show kind of doing a meditation, 898 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 2: and that felt like a real kind of a real shift, 899 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 2: a real move. And I think both both of us 900 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,280 Speaker 2: like wow, this is crazy and going to the White 901 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,800 Speaker 2: House and places like I think there have been a 902 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,319 Speaker 2: number of moments where we have kind of pinched us else. 903 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 2: I think in terms of the both of us are 904 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 2: so involved in the in the work. When you're involved 905 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 2: in it, it's very hard to kind of have that 906 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,200 Speaker 2: perspective of stepping back and thinking, oh, this is this 907 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,719 Speaker 2: has really kind of grown. We're very Fortunately the other 908 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 2: day we had Billum and ind the Gates come in 909 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,359 Speaker 2: so we do conversations at lunchtime, and they came in 910 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,439 Speaker 2: for a chat and a Q and A with a team, 911 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 2: and I think that was another kind of moment of 912 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 2: sort of stepping back and going, Wow, not only are they, 913 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,799 Speaker 2: you know, doing airspace, but they're kind of willing to 914 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 2: spare the time to come and see what's going on here. 915 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 2: And it was a testament to what the team's done. 916 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 2: But it's also a testament to how the space has 917 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 2: kind of moved on. Yeah, so there definitely are those 918 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 2: those moments where I still kind of stop and reflect. 919 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 920 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: There are a lot of different people that use headspace. 921 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,880 Speaker 1: I think that again, going back to those barriers of meditation, 922 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,760 Speaker 1: I think using an app makes meditating a lot easier 923 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: for sure, for someone who doesn't really know how to 924 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: begin or can't get past like what I feel like 925 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: can be like that initial wall. What are some of 926 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: the actionable tips that you offer them. 927 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,400 Speaker 2: So we're trying as much as possible to provide the 928 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 2: information that people need. We talk about it internally as 929 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 2: providing the most compelling invitation possible to actually try it. 930 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,240 Speaker 2: So for some people that's going to be the science. 931 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 2: And it's kind of like, hey, you may not be 932 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,479 Speaker 2: interested in actually doing the meditation yourself yet, but here's 933 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,320 Speaker 2: what happens to people who meditate, and here's how impacts 934 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,239 Speaker 2: our health and wellbeing. With our partnerships, so with Nike, 935 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 2: for example, we do Nike Running, We do loads of 936 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 2: kind of collaboration stuff, and it's like, Okay, you may 937 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 2: not want to sit down and meditate, but maybe you 938 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 2: want to learn how to be mindful when you're out running. 939 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: I love that. By the way, Oh yeah, that must 940 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: have been that must have been a pinch me moment. 941 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,319 Speaker 1: I mean, you guys joked at the very beginning, I 942 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,040 Speaker 1: know we're going to be the Nike running and then 943 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: Nike is like, hey, we should probably talk about collaborating. 944 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, and that was I mean, that's really 945 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 2: it's also really it's like thrilling when a big brand 946 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,760 Speaker 2: like that that you have a huge amount of respect 947 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 2: for and you've always kind of like to have them 948 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,319 Speaker 2: come to you and say that would you like to 949 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 2: do something? That's amazing. So we really kind of enjoyed that. 950 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 2: So we're trying to provide these different routes in for people, yeah, 951 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 2: who aren't necessarily ready for meditation just now. In fact, 952 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,760 Speaker 2: right now we all just recently we launched sleep within, 953 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 2: which is a whole separate thing within within the app, 954 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,960 Speaker 2: and the idea being that, hey, look a lot of 955 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,359 Speaker 2: people will chant to meditation kind of if they want 956 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,160 Speaker 2: to sort of sleep a little bit better, but not 957 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,439 Speaker 2: everybody kind of wants to take that route, So other 958 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,800 Speaker 2: other exercises we can provide to help people kind of 959 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 2: sleep and then maybe they become interested in meditation along 960 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,120 Speaker 2: the way. But I would say to anybody kind of look, 961 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 2: you can download it for free. You could. The shortest 962 00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 2: meditation you can do when you first download it on 963 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,279 Speaker 2: take ten is I think it's three minutes. Like this 964 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 2: is worth three minutes of your time just to experiment 965 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,959 Speaker 2: and see it as an experiment. Don't take my word 966 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,800 Speaker 2: for it that it makes a difference. I'm not promising 967 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 2: that it will. But try it for yourself and see 968 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,879 Speaker 2: if you feel different after three minutes, and then maybe 969 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 2: try it for just a couple more days, just to 970 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 2: kind of be sure that you give it a give 971 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:21,360 Speaker 2: it a fair chance. 972 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: And what about environmental factors? 973 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's that's real. I've lived in a 974 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,360 Speaker 2: lot of very big, busy, noisy cities in my life, 975 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 2: and definitely some places are easier to meditate than others. 976 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 2: But I would say, don't worry so much about external noise. 977 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 2: The only thing that you really need is not to 978 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,560 Speaker 2: be disturbed, as in physically disturbed during the three five 979 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,760 Speaker 2: ten minutes that you're going to sit down and meditate, 980 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 2: same time, same place. Definitely helps, but it's not not essential. 981 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 2: As I say, Actually, during the exercise, I encourage people 982 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,359 Speaker 2: to use the noises. It might be your next door 983 00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,680 Speaker 2: neighbors kind of a very loud music quote. It might 984 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,359 Speaker 2: be a construction drill going on out, So how can 985 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 2: you bring that into the practice and make so it 986 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 2: shouldn't be an obstacle. It's like how do you work? 987 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,880 Speaker 2: Meditation is very flexible, so it's like, how do you 988 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,319 Speaker 2: work within the conditions that you find yourself, rather than 989 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,319 Speaker 2: there's no point in be doing it here because it's 990 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 2: not going to work. I need to head off to 991 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 2: the MLAs you don't. You don't need to testify. 992 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,880 Speaker 1: I've done it on the subway. I think that's the 993 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,720 Speaker 1: ultimate test. A question I love to kind of ask 994 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: as I wind down here is if you had the 995 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: opportunity to offer that Andy, who was going through that 996 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,440 Speaker 1: really tough time after that car accident, some advice maybe 997 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 1: looking back on the situation, now, yeah, what would you 998 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: What would you say to him? 999 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say anything. 1000 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,360 Speaker 2: I wouldn't encourage myself at that time to do anything differently. 1001 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,400 Speaker 2: You know, it's tempting to look back into kind of 1002 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,279 Speaker 2: think if only I had known that, But if we 1003 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,720 Speaker 2: had known that, then we would be on a different journey. 1004 00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 2: And I'm really happy that I've lived the journey that 1005 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,400 Speaker 2: I've lived, and that I'm on the journey that I'm on. 1006 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,880 Speaker 2: I don't want it to be different, and so I 1007 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,760 Speaker 2: wouldn't even want to go back and avoid those difficult times. 1008 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,200 Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to find a way of getting out 1009 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,759 Speaker 2: of that feeling of anxiety or depression or whatever it 1010 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,840 Speaker 2: could be described at the time. Retrospectively, I'm really happy 1011 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,200 Speaker 2: that happened because that was the journey. Like the journey 1012 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 2: isn't the perfect painted picture in the future that we 1013 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,279 Speaker 2: dream of the journey, I would say, I would argue, 1014 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,719 Speaker 2: that's not even that important. It's good that we have 1015 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 2: some direction in life, but the finished thing is not 1016 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,920 Speaker 2: so important. The important thing is the journey, and the 1017 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 2: journey's rich. Sometimes it's beautiful, sometimes it's peaceful, sometimes it's ugly, 1018 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,520 Speaker 2: and sometimes it's painful, and that's okay, that's the journey. 1019 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 2: I love that. 1020 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,799 Speaker 1: I feel like the only way I know how to 1021 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,120 Speaker 1: close out this session with you is to ask you 1022 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: if we could do like a two minute meditation. 1023 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:05,319 Speaker 2: Sure we can. 1024 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 1: And the good news is that maybe someone who's never 1025 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: opened the Headspace app but loves hurdle. 1026 00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, is gonna, it is gonna. 1027 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be comfortable here. It is gonna listen to 1028 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,920 Speaker 1: this be like that. That was pretty dope, and then 1029 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:23,040 Speaker 1: they're gonna open the headspace app. So I'm ready. I'm ready, 1030 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: all right. 1031 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 2: So obviously you know, I know you've I know you've 1032 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 2: used it before, but I'm gonna assume that people kind 1033 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,080 Speaker 2: of listening haven't used it before. 1034 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:31,719 Speaker 1: That's great. 1035 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,520 Speaker 2: So just get yourself comfortable, doesn't matter too much kind 1036 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,000 Speaker 2: of how how you're sat. You can even do it 1037 00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 2: lying down if if you prefer, but just take a 1038 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 2: take a moment to get comfortable. And I always encourage 1039 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,680 Speaker 2: people to start with their their eyes open rather than closed, 1040 00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 2: just sort of taking in the space around You're not 1041 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 2: looking around, but just taking taking in the space around you. 1042 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,479 Speaker 2: And then when you feel ready, just taking a big 1043 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:02,840 Speaker 2: deep breath, breathing into the nose and ounce with the mouth, 1044 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,160 Speaker 2: and if you haven't done already, as you breathe outs 1045 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,080 Speaker 2: with the mouth, just gently closing the eyes and just 1046 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 2: taking a moment just to enjoy that feeling of having 1047 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:21,240 Speaker 2: stopped having nothing to do. Nowhere to go, Just feeling 1048 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,359 Speaker 2: the weight of your body against the seat or the 1049 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:31,400 Speaker 2: floor beneath you, and as you pause, just checking in 1050 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:37,520 Speaker 2: with your body, just noticing how the body feels. Sometimes 1051 00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,480 Speaker 2: you might feel a sense of heaviness or tiredness. Other 1052 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 2: times it might be lightness, excitement, And as you're becoming 1053 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 2: more aware of the body, just starting to notice how 1054 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 2: the breath in the body feels as well. So to 1055 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 2: begin with, just noticing where in the bodies. So for 1056 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 2: some people it's in the chest they feel that movement. 1057 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a diaphragm, sometimes it's a stomach. You'll put 1058 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,560 Speaker 2: your hand on your stomach just to feel that if 1059 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 2: you find it easier. I don't have to do anything 1060 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,920 Speaker 2: they have to breathe in any special way, don't have 1061 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,439 Speaker 2: to try and stop thinking, Just allow thoughts to come 1062 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:28,880 Speaker 2: and go. I'm just going to stay focused on that feeling, 1063 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,880 Speaker 2: that rising and falling sensation of the breath just for 1064 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:51,520 Speaker 2: the next ten or twenty seconds. To notice when you 1065 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:56,479 Speaker 2: get distracted, letting go with that thought, just gently coming 1066 00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:12,880 Speaker 2: back to the breath again, and then just gently bringing 1067 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,720 Speaker 2: the attention back to the body, back to that feeling 1068 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:26,279 Speaker 2: of weight and contact. I'm starting to notice the sounds 1069 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:30,960 Speaker 2: around you again, and when you're ready, just gently. 1070 00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: It's the best. It's the best every time. Andy, thanks 1071 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: so much for sitting down with me, for having me. 1072 00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,600 Speaker 1: Please please take a moment and leave a quick review 1073 00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,440 Speaker 1: of the podcast by clicking the link with the description 1074 00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,280 Speaker 1: to this episode. We all face multiple hurdles in life. 1075 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,719 Speaker 1: I want to hear about yours. Reach out to me 1076 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,560 Speaker 1: at Emily at hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast 1077 00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at Hurdle podcast. Andy. Where do 1078 00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,160 Speaker 1: they find you? Where do they find headspace? Give me 1079 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:05,720 Speaker 1: the lowdown. 1080 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,160 Speaker 2: We're at headspace dot com. You can download the app 1081 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,920 Speaker 2: at iTunes or in the play store, and you know, 1082 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,240 Speaker 2: you can find me on Twitter and Instagram and stuff. 1083 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,320 Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest kind of social media as you 1084 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,720 Speaker 2: would imagine, kind of as a as a former monk, 1085 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:22,919 Speaker 2: but yeah, have a look. 1086 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,960 Speaker 1: We're out there, We're around, We're out there. I'm at 1087 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 1: Emilia Body. Thanks again, Andy, I appreciate it. Another hurdle conquered. 1088 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,080 Speaker 1: Catch you guys next time.