Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Hear's the
Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. If you turn on your device
Speaker 1: or television or go to the movies, you're likely to
Speaker 1: have the good fortune of enjoying the work of my
Speaker 1: guest today. Who else has such a prolific output a
Speaker 1: starring role in a Coen Brothers movie, one Moment, and
Speaker 1: a cameo in a network sitcom. Only one of the
Speaker 1: hardest working people in show business, Richard Kind Kind single
Speaker 1: handedly redefine the term character actor. Memorable roles on Spin
Speaker 1: City and Curb Your Enthusiasm exploit his killer comedic timing,
Speaker 1: while HBO's Luck and the Oscar winning Argo exercise his
Speaker 1: dramatic chops. He lends his voice to animated films like
Speaker 1: Cars and Inside Out, and then graces the stage as
Speaker 1: a Tony nominated Drama Desk winning theater actor, and his
Speaker 1: stage resume is deep, dirty, rotten Scoundrels, The Tale of
Speaker 1: the Allagist's Wife, Candide, and kiss Me Kate. He even
Speaker 1: starred as Max bi Ali Stock in the iconic mel
Speaker 1: Brooks musical The Producers, kiss Me, Squeeze Me, Touch Me,
Speaker 1: Love Me? What Are They? And the producers hulled me,
Speaker 1: touch me, hold me. You played that part I did
Speaker 1: Where did you do that part? Broadway and the Hollywood
Speaker 1: Bowl and Mel wants me to do it in London
Speaker 1: now Broadway mean after they when they left, you came
Speaker 1: on or.
Speaker 2: I did it? I did it? I call it. I
Speaker 2: did it for Asians and Iowans because they got all
Speaker 2: of the New Yorkers. Then Stephen Weber and it was
Speaker 2: Henry Goodman, and then Brad Oscar did it for a while,
Speaker 2: and they got some of the New Yorkers who couldn't
Speaker 2: afford the expensive seats, and got smart people from all
Speaker 2: over the country, you know, from cities. And then when
Speaker 2: there's nobody left, that's when I came in the show.
Speaker 2: I swaart of did I didn't? But I did it
Speaker 2: with about eight different leos. Whenever there was a leo
Speaker 2: that was gonna go out on the road, they would
Speaker 2: put him in for three days to see what he
Speaker 2: was like with me, and I would test him. And
Speaker 2: there was one guy. One he's a lovely, lovely guy,
Speaker 2: Patrick and I can't remember his last name. He has
Speaker 2: a Broadway stalwart and so he's but he's built like
Speaker 2: a bricks. No, no, no, no, no, he's playing Leo.
Speaker 2: Nobody you would know.
Speaker 1: He's built like a brick shootout and he's playing Leo.
Speaker 2: And he's playing Leo. And at the end of the act,
Speaker 2: I put my arm around him, you know, and go,
Speaker 2: we're gonna do it. We'll do it like that. And
Speaker 2: I go, oh my god, this guy could pommel me.
Speaker 2: But he's been in twenty Broadway shows. He's a real stallwarty.
Speaker 2: But he's a he's a guy.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people on Broadway who are more
Speaker 2: known as understudies because they can do every sort of role.
Speaker 2: They're in the cast, the swings, they can do everything,
Speaker 2: and you have great talents, and they will not raise
Speaker 2: them up to the role of performer.
Speaker 1: And they should be.
Speaker 2: They mistakenly keep themselves in constant employ employment as swings
Speaker 2: and they don't have the ambition to rise above. And
Speaker 2: I think that's an interesting person I.
Speaker 1: Found, and I'm sure you found over these low these
Speaker 1: many years that for some of them, certainly not all
Speaker 1: of them, it's about geography. They don't want to leave town.
Speaker 1: There's things they could go do that could maybe help
Speaker 1: their career whatever. Maybe TV films or shows. But they
Speaker 1: want to stay in New York. They don't want to
Speaker 1: leave wife, kids. Yeah, I remember them doing soaps. We
Speaker 1: used to call Upper Montclair, New Jersey, the soap opera Riviera.
Speaker 1: They all lived out there, and yeah, and that was
Speaker 1: not fair.
Speaker 2: I believe that. But no, I don't totally agree with you.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, And right off, we don't content us. No,
Speaker 2: they want to stay in a position. Maybe they do
Speaker 2: have families, and that is why they are complacent about
Speaker 2: their ambition.
Speaker 1: So complacency is to blame for their career.
Speaker 2: I think it is. They work all the time. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's complacency, but it's not fear of travel, because a
Speaker 2: lot of them go on the road. There's a lot
Speaker 2: more money to be made on the road. You get
Speaker 2: per diem and you get.
Speaker 1: The moment you walked in, I knew you were not
Speaker 1: going to have the kind of conversation I called the
Speaker 1: log rolling conversation. But none of us is going in
Speaker 1: the water. I guess which one's going to go in
Speaker 1: the water. Which one was gonna get tossed in the
Speaker 1: water now?
Speaker 2: Right, But I'm right about this to you on everything
Speaker 2: now we're still dry.
Speaker 1: We also concluded my producers and I who work on
Speaker 1: the show with me, we also concluded that this podcast
Speaker 1: is the only thing in show business you haven't done yet.
Speaker 1: This is this one show You've done everything.
Speaker 2: But it's crazy. I know I should be much wealthier.
Speaker 2: I do everything. I have said this before. I am
Speaker 2: the costco of acting. I come in quantity and I
Speaker 2: come cheap.
Speaker 1: And that's right.
Speaker 2: The toilet paper like toilet paper. Yes, instead of buying
Speaker 2: twelve rolls at the CBS, you got twenty six for
Speaker 2: the same price. Yes, that's me.
Speaker 1: When you were a child, New Jersey, Buck, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad was head of store in Princeton, New Jersey.
Speaker 1: She was in Princeton, Western New Jersey.
Speaker 2: There, but I'm on the way to Yeah, we were
Speaker 2: right across the river.
Speaker 1: Right. The point is that you're there. What was because
Speaker 1: I'll preface this by saying, when I was a kid
Speaker 1: and there was only network TV, no streaming, no HBO,
Speaker 1: there was network TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I watched the little album. You call it
Speaker 2: network TV. I called it Channel two, Channel four and
Speaker 2: channel seven and O R P I x exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: And we would watch the Million Dollar Movie five times
Speaker 2: a week. Monday through Friday was the same one every week.
Speaker 2: What was the theme song for a million dollar movie?
Speaker 1: From Gone with the Wind?
Speaker 2: Thank you very much? Okay, please let's go out and
Speaker 2: coming both on the log right now?
Speaker 1: Saw falls to be here. Now wait a second. I'm
Speaker 1: going to get you with that in a minute. But
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, it was all like I would.
Speaker 1: There were some dramas and whatever, But I watched f
Speaker 1: Troop and Gilligan's Island and all this crap all the time,
Speaker 1: and I dream of Genie. I watched Network Comedy.
Speaker 2: I knew that was my roots, and I knew the
Speaker 2: TV guide and at that time I had my finger
Speaker 2: on the pulse of America and what they liked. And
Speaker 2: it was a big slap in the face when I
Speaker 2: thought that I knew about things and I absolutely didn't.
Speaker 2: How So, okay, who wants to be a millionaire? Who's
Speaker 2: gonna watch Who wants to be a millionaire? It's Jeopardy
Speaker 2: with seven questions. I said, nobody's gonna watch this biggest
Speaker 2: hit in the world. That's what it was to me,
Speaker 2: And I go, it can't be that you did. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you something I was the first
Speaker 2: person to ever win a million dollars? And who wants
Speaker 2: to be a millionaire? Oh my god, I'll tell you how,
Speaker 2: wes No, I'll tell you how. It was an ABC
Speaker 2: show and my character from Spin City goes on who
Speaker 2: wants to be a Millionaire? And I win a million dollars?
Speaker 2: And nobody who would win a million dollars had been
Speaker 2: broadcast yet? Hey? Hey really no? No? Yeah, okay, okay, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: see d D.
Speaker 1: You're sure?
Speaker 2: Yes, d me? He is your final les Hey, d D.
Speaker 2: Saya So I was the first person. I wasn't. Paul
Speaker 2: Lassiter from Spen City was the first person, and that
Speaker 2: they you know, and it had already hardly been on,
Speaker 2: and there were some people.
Speaker 1: Who do you have a lot of confusion between yourself
Speaker 1: and your character.
Speaker 2: This is how good I am won, this is who
Speaker 2: how good I am? But really was past I immersed myself.
Speaker 1: I kissed Elizabeth Taylor. It really was, Uh, it was it.
Speaker 2: Was flat Okay, But I'll tell you something else. Do
Speaker 2: you remember when Farah Fawcett had her poster oute right
Speaker 2: of course? Okay, Arnold Schwarzenegger said, I will be bigger
Speaker 2: than Farah Fawcett at the time. We all snorted and
Speaker 2: I said, who the hell does this idiot I think
Speaker 2: that he is. I was wrong. I thought I had
Speaker 2: my finger on the pope. I don't know what There
Speaker 2: was a day that happened, but when it continues today.
Speaker 1: I'm at a party the other day and Greta Gerberg
Speaker 1: is there with bomb back, and I said to them,
Speaker 1: if I could go back and I could have one wish,
Speaker 1: my wish would be I go back in time while
Speaker 1: you were filming. I'd say, Barbie is going to earn
Speaker 1: a billion dollars worldwide and take all comers, take all
Speaker 1: back exactly, cover everything. Yeah, And they looked at me like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's a weird thing, exactly. Okay.
Speaker 2: I was at a poker game with a guy friend.
Speaker 2: So he's at the poker game and says, my wife
Speaker 2: has been asked to write a pitch for the Lego movie,
Speaker 2: at which point seven guys start making fun of the
Speaker 2: Lego movie. Oh oh, I don't know which piece to
Speaker 2: punt here. Do I put a long, long rectangle or
Speaker 2: do I put a square here?
Speaker 3: What do I do?
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, Yes, all of a sudden three
Speaker 2: or four or five years later, the Lego movie comes
Speaker 2: out and it's it's huge. But can you imagine coming
Speaker 2: to a table and saying we're going to make a
Speaker 2: movie about legos and we just laughed.
Speaker 1: We just left my career. I make a movie with
Speaker 1: my ex wife. We decide we want to work together.
Speaker 1: We weren't really very fussy about what we were doing,
Speaker 1: not fussy enough, but we get our hands on on
Speaker 1: this original script that Walter Hill wrote for The Getaway
Speaker 1: with Steve McQueen, and we decided we're going to do
Speaker 1: a remake of The Getabay.
Speaker 2: I want.
Speaker 1: I want to do an action film. I hadn't done
Speaker 1: one in a while, and I'm we're gonna go to
Speaker 1: Arizona and do the Ghetabay. And Walter Hill leaves because
Speaker 1: they wouldn't give him enough money to make the movie.
Speaker 1: And then we go do it with Roger Donaldson. And
Speaker 1: the point is is that we come out and I
Speaker 1: don't have high hopes. Means it's we're doing a remake,
Speaker 1: which is always dicey, and the movie comes out, but
Speaker 1: we're up against the movie. I looked at my ex
Speaker 1: wife and I said, we're in. We scored, We're up
Speaker 1: against this movie. We're opening weekend against this movie. Ace
Speaker 1: Ventura pet Detective, right, I mean, what the fuck is
Speaker 1: Ace fan? And then there's his history history yep, who knows?
Speaker 1: Who knows?
Speaker 2: I do not have my polls, but your childhood, my childhood.
Speaker 2: I knew everything pas TV, I knew everything well. Dick
Speaker 2: Van Dyke, by the way, who did I have breakfast
Speaker 2: with this morning? Bill Persky? Oh god, who created? Well,
Speaker 2: he didn't create, but he wrote the lion's share of
Speaker 2: Dick Van Dykes shows, and he quoted, he quoted an
Speaker 2: episode that Howie Morris did. And I go yes, And
Speaker 2: I started filling in the blanks with because I remember
Speaker 2: Dick Van Dyke, sho gets smart, get smart? Was it
Speaker 2: was manna to me? That's what I was raised at,
Speaker 2: Soupy Sales. Was manna to me? I was, I was
Speaker 2: raised on Soupy sales.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, he was.
Speaker 2: I got a funny story about it, but I'll tell
Speaker 2: you later. But super, I went to his funeral over
Speaker 2: at the Campbell now, but I had never met him
Speaker 2: before it. Since I read the bit and it says
Speaker 2: it's at the Campbell Hall, I'm going on Campbell Frank
Speaker 2: Frank Campbell. Yeah, over on seventy seventh or whatever. The
Speaker 2: funeral part, it is the funeral. It is the funeral
Speaker 2: parlor to the story. Yeah, but you went to super be'
Speaker 2: S thing. I mean to me, it's like, who's the
Speaker 2: other one?
Speaker 1: I remember? Super say? I mean I would sit home.
Speaker 1: I mean I would lie to my mother. And I
Speaker 1: didn't do this like all the time, but I did
Speaker 1: it at enough times to believe me. I almost got
Speaker 1: in trouble for this. And I would sit to my mother,
Speaker 1: I'm sick. And I realized my mother was lonely. My
Speaker 1: mother put all of her kids in school and her
Speaker 1: husband was gone all day and she was lonely. So
Speaker 1: she let me stay home from school to have a companion.
Speaker 2: And what did you do? Did you to watch?
Speaker 1: I watched Hollywood Squares and I watched Paul Lynd. I
Speaker 1: learned half of my acting from Boland. Paul Land taught
Speaker 1: me how to act.
Speaker 2: Have you done Hollywood Squares?
Speaker 1: I did Hollywood Squares? I did a Millionaire. I did
Speaker 1: Hollywood Squares with Whoopee and it was for charity. The
Speaker 1: guy that was his name King, that owned the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so King kind to me and knew that my charity
Speaker 1: my mother's foundation for breast cancer. My mom passed away
Speaker 1: last year, but she had a breast cancer foundation housed
Speaker 1: at sunny Stonybrook, and then we got a chapter rep
Speaker 1: State where she moved to, and so a lot of beneficiary.
Speaker 1: Danny Wegman from Wegman Supermarkets very kind to my family,
Speaker 1: and King gives me two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: to do the show. So I go, on, dude, you
Speaker 1: give me two undred fifty thousand bucks to do one
Speaker 1: week of the show with Whoopee. I go, I have
Speaker 1: a bawl, I do millionaire, I have a bowl, I mean,
Speaker 1: and then I host match Game. For those three years
Speaker 1: we did match Game, and someone would say to me, oh,
Speaker 1: of course in this way that my career is like
Speaker 1: a very blurry polaroid. Here I do this, I do this,
Speaker 1: I do this. They're like, well, another coffin and Alec
Speaker 1: Baldwin's career casket. And I think to myself, well, I
Speaker 1: did it for the money. I did it for the
Speaker 1: charity thing, to give the money away. But then I
Speaker 1: couldn't hold my hold back with the truth, which was
Speaker 1: I had more fun doing that than a lot of others.
Speaker 1: I loved them. I love it. I loved doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a ball.
Speaker 2: Now, I'm gonna tell you something. When I was on
Speaker 2: Spin City, I was approached to do special episodes of
Speaker 2: America's Funniest Home Videos. So I did a Christmas show.
Speaker 2: It was an hour show, and I said, I will
Speaker 2: do it, but I don't want to do it like
Speaker 2: Bob Sagett. I don't want the fireplace and I want
Speaker 2: the audience. I don't want me talking, talking and making
Speaker 2: these stupid jokes. I'll narrate the films, but I'll host
Speaker 2: set by introducing the clips, but I don't want to
Speaker 2: be funny. They did plasma TVs were first invented. I said,
Speaker 2: let's have them on poles. I wore a black turtleneck.
Speaker 2: I hosted it for an hour, highest rated America's Funniest
Speaker 2: Home Video special they ever.
Speaker 1: Had, Richard Kind. If you enjoy conversations with inspiring comedic actors,
Speaker 1: check out my episode with one of Richard Kine's earliest
Speaker 1: co stars, the legendary Carol Burnett.
Speaker 3: In that era, the only one who really would speak
Speaker 3: up was Lucy.
Speaker 1: She was very strong.
Speaker 3: But it's not in my nature to take over confront
Speaker 3: or anything. You know, if a sketch wasn't working or something,
Speaker 3: instead of like glees and or Sid would say, look, guys.
Speaker 1: This stinks.
Speaker 2: Now, come on, you got to fix it.
Speaker 3: But bu you know they would do that, I would say,
Speaker 3: I'd call the writers down into the rehearsal hall and
Speaker 3: I'd say, you know, guys, I'm not doing this too well.
Speaker 3: Do you think maybe you could help me out with
Speaker 3: a different line here or there, because you know, otherwise
Speaker 3: I would have been a.
Speaker 1: Bit to hear more of my conversation with Carol Burnett
Speaker 1: go to Here's the Thing dot org. After the break,
Speaker 1: Richard Kind shares his experience landing a job with the
Speaker 1: one and only Carol Burnett. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're
Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. If you feel there is
Speaker 1: no dramatic or comedic role Richard Kind can't inhabit, you
Speaker 1: might be right. With over two hundred and seventy film
Speaker 1: and television credits to his name, it seems like the
Speaker 1: profession was built for him. I wanted to know if
Speaker 1: Kind always knew that the field of acting was his destiny.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, now, so business was made
Speaker 2: for other people exactly, yeah, yeah, no, no, but I'm
Speaker 2: an actor, are you kidding me? And my yeah, my fad.
Speaker 2: My father said he wanted me to go to law school,
Speaker 2: business school to take over his story.
Speaker 1: And then you went to Northwestern great law school for
Speaker 1: one year.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I went to Northwestern undergrad. I was
Speaker 2: accepted to U of P Law school, and I deferred it.
Speaker 2: My dad's best friend he said, try acting, because you'll
Speaker 2: be resentful of your children and your wife.
Speaker 1: You'll never be young again. Did you do try it
Speaker 1: young enough so you didn't go to law school for
Speaker 1: a year. I didn't go to law school at all.
Speaker 1: I deferred, no, no, no, never went to law school.
Speaker 1: My first year, I took acting classes with a guy
Speaker 1: named Bud Buyer. Bud Buyer.
Speaker 2: During one class he knew my parents, he and met
Speaker 2: them and liked them, and that I was supposed to
Speaker 2: go into law school. He put me on stage in
Speaker 2: a chair and for forty five to fifty minutes he
Speaker 2: berated me for not having the courage to become an actor,
Speaker 2: that that's what he coward, everything like that, And I said,
Speaker 2: it's just what I was made to do. I was
Speaker 2: supposed to go into my dad's store. It's all there
Speaker 2: for me, have two and a half kids, belonged to
Speaker 2: the country club. And then it was just it was
Speaker 2: in February. We were watching a football game with Steve
Speaker 2: Holsman in our living room January February, and during the
Speaker 2: commercial night, he said, you should defer law school and
Speaker 2: try it. And like I said, one year turns into two.
Speaker 2: And then I just never went.
Speaker 1: How did you try? You went to school for it?
Speaker 1: You went to Second City? No, no, no, where was
Speaker 1: Galotti a professor of yours?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 2: Gallotti was a Galotti was great.
Speaker 1: Did you know him? You love him? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Oh? Galotti was great. Galotti at Northwestern. I went to
Speaker 2: him my probably my junior senior year, and I said,
Speaker 2: I want to be an actor, but you know, I
Speaker 2: think that I should be going to law school and
Speaker 2: business school. So I go to my dad's story. He said, well,
Speaker 2: why don't you become a producer, so then you get
Speaker 2: the business that I go. No, no, no, I become
Speaker 2: an actor or I become rich at my dad's store.
Speaker 2: It's one or the other. It wasn't. I just want
Speaker 2: to be in sobiz. I want to be an actor,
Speaker 2: and I said, I told him that. He goes, well,
Speaker 2: you're not going to work until you're thirty two because
Speaker 2: you don't have the face for what Hollywood wants. So
Speaker 2: go out there get good. And then at Agelati Galotti
Speaker 2: said that to me, and I did. I came to
Speaker 2: New York, I went, I had HB Studios. I worked
Speaker 2: at You'll remember the saloon. I opened the saloon. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's now a bed bathroom or was a bed bathroom behind? No,
Speaker 2: you didn't, No, I was, no, but I did. I
Speaker 2: was a waiter. I was a waiter at a saloon
Speaker 2: with Jennifer Gray, who I later became my wife in
Speaker 2: a TV series. So we all worked there, and I
Speaker 2: took classes at HB Studios. I did off Broadway plays.
Speaker 2: I did a play called Take Death to Lunch with
Speaker 2: Lonnie Price. I did a great play that sounds like
Speaker 2: it shouldn't be The day the horse came out to
Speaker 2: play tennis by Arthur Coopitt, who later became a friend
Speaker 2: of mine, the Arthur copeit. In fact, Arthur he wrote,
Speaker 2: oh Dad, poor dad, about a little you know, five
Speaker 2: foot four stutterer. Okay, So one day Arthur.
Speaker 1: Was in the closet and she's feeling so bad.
Speaker 2: That is correct. So one day I'm doing a play
Speaker 2: at Bay Street. He comes backstage to say hello. I'd
Speaker 2: never met him, and he's six or four handsome, was
Speaker 2: all got out, looked like a baseball player. And he
Speaker 2: comes up and he shakes it, shakes my hand. He goes,
Speaker 2: I'm Arthur copeit and I go, no, you're not. I
Speaker 2: couldn't buy Hit a stud And he wrote about a
Speaker 2: little stutterer. So I just did all of those things.
Speaker 2: I went on the road with did you Know part
Speaker 2: Performing Arts Repertory Theater Children's Theater now known as Theatre Works,
Speaker 2: playing Blackfish the Indian with Daniel Boone thirty six States
Speaker 2: and five and a half months, and I was I
Speaker 2: had these braids and the makeup and everything. And one
Speaker 2: day we played this elementary school and all the kids
Speaker 2: are going, I want to see the Indian. I want
Speaker 2: to see the Indian. And I had my makeup off
Speaker 2: and everything and they come out and all their o
Speaker 2: their faces were just ah, they were crestfalling. I go, sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm the I'm the Shapiro tribe, you know. And then
Speaker 2: I just did you know Practical Theater Company?
Speaker 1: Ever?
Speaker 2: Hear of that? No? In Chicago, Second City, next door
Speaker 2: to Second City was a little space called the Etc.
Speaker 2: Which had people from Second City who were you know,
Speaker 2: on the in the touring companies and on the Upper Way,
Speaker 2: and they started a company called Practical Theater Company. I
Speaker 2: went from New York to Chicago to do a show
Speaker 2: at their place. Second City saw me in that. I
Speaker 2: went on Second City and then and then I went
Speaker 2: to Hollywood after four years, four and a year eighty
Speaker 2: eight eighty nine.
Speaker 1: Yes, and when you get there.
Speaker 2: What was that like for you?
Speaker 1: At your age?
Speaker 2: I'm one of the I'm stupidly I like auditioning, right,
Speaker 2: I love auditioning. An artist can work alone, a writer
Speaker 2: can work alone. But an actor, you go in front
Speaker 2: of a mirror. You can't do it alone. You got
Speaker 2: to You gotta act in front of people. So I
Speaker 2: loved pilot season. I loved it. You go into these rooms,
Speaker 2: there's old friends. You know, it's not in New York.
Speaker 2: You pass old friends in LA you see them in
Speaker 2: the audition room. I used to have pilot season after
Speaker 2: pilot season. I didn't really because I usually got the job.
Speaker 2: I don't mean to be like that. But during the
Speaker 2: pilot season I got a pilot. They wanted the funny
Speaker 2: went to series.
Speaker 1: I was just lucky, untalented, but but my thank you.
Speaker 2: But my first show was a drama because when I
Speaker 2: came out of Second City, I said, I don't want
Speaker 2: people to think of me as just funny. I want
Speaker 2: them to know I can act. So I did a
Speaker 2: Stephen Cannell show called Unsub. I call it unsubwhat unsub?
Speaker 2: Because I say unsub? What unsub? So it was that
Speaker 2: mean short for unknown subject. That was the name of
Speaker 2: the show, unsubbed unsub. It was like, why don't they
Speaker 2: just drive the fucking camera truck into the lake. You're right,
Speaker 2: but the word unsub. They were chasing unknown subjects. Whenever
Speaker 2: I see Peter Roth, you remember Peter Roth for brother.
Speaker 2: Whenever I see Peter Roth, he asks me, he goes,
Speaker 2: we were the first. We were the first procedural. And
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding unsub unsub because usually police shows went
Speaker 2: into their private lives. This was only about what they
Speaker 2: were doing, the crime, the crime, the work. Now here
Speaker 2: was the first episode? Are you ready?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Paul Gilfoyle Wonderful Acts love Gilfoyle. Okay. Gilfoyle plays a cobbler,
Speaker 2: a shoemaker who puts razor blades in the heels of
Speaker 2: women's shoes. When they try them on, they bend over
Speaker 2: in pain and he stabs them in the back of
Speaker 2: the neck with an all Okay, so this is in
Speaker 2: the eighties. Okay. So he comes running home to his mother,
Speaker 2: Grace Zabriski, the Great Gray Sabriskie, who's lying in a
Speaker 2: bathtub with her legs spread, and he comes in. He goes, mother, Mother, Mother,
Speaker 2: Mother had done something bad. Okay. This was the first episode.
Speaker 2: Brandon Tartakoff had gone to lunch with Stephen Cannell. He
Speaker 2: had two writers, Steve Cronish and I can't remember the
Speaker 2: other guy's name, and they had created a show called
Speaker 2: Wise Guy. So Cannell goes to Tartakoff and says, I
Speaker 2: got a show for you about the guys who chase
Speaker 2: serial killers. He thought he was getting eight team, He
Speaker 2: thought he was going to get another eight teams. He
Speaker 2: sees the first episode with the killer. It happens to
Speaker 2: see it the night after Harado Rivera had a show
Speaker 2: on about which craft. It was on NBC, and the
Speaker 2: reviewers said, this is the bottom of network TV. It
Speaker 2: can never go lower, and Tartakoff is getting attacked. He
Speaker 2: sees this episode the next day in the screening room.
Speaker 2: Midway through, he stands up and he goes, what the
Speaker 2: fuck are you trying to do? Bring down this network
Speaker 2: single handedly? So Canell knew the show was off, but
Speaker 2: we did eleven episodes. How were the Carol Burnett experience?
Speaker 2: Oh that was the greatest great, Well, let me tell
Speaker 2: you about Carol Burnett. I worship her. So I go
Speaker 2: in for the audition. I had done a show called
Speaker 2: an episode of Anything But Love with Jamie Lee Curtis
Speaker 2: and Richard Lewis, and the producer of that says, you know,
Speaker 2: he's great, instead of the casting director coming out to
Speaker 2: get me, and I'm just I'm the only one there
Speaker 2: out in this hallway, said the casting actor Colling. Richard,
Speaker 2: come on in. Carol Burnett comes out to the hallway
Speaker 2: and says, Richard, come on in, let's play. And I said,
Speaker 2: well that how you'll run Hollywood. We hear your good.
Speaker 2: Let's see your best. Not come on in and show us,
Speaker 2: show us what you can do. It's come on in
Speaker 2: and let's play, let's see if we can have you
Speaker 2: at your best, and I went in. I read with her,
Speaker 2: and she, of course is Grace's. Of course has showed
Speaker 2: her kindness. And I said, all right, I will.
Speaker 1: Actor Richard Kind. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a
Speaker 1: friend and be sure to follow Here's the thing on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Richard Kind shares one of the
Speaker 1: best pieces of acting advice he's ever been given. I'm
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. We
Speaker 1: all know and love. Richard Kine's long running characters Paul
Speaker 1: Lassiter from Spin City and cousin Andy from Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Speaker 1: Another role Kind is famous for is that of doctor
Speaker 1: Mark Devino on Paul Riser's Man About You, but surprisingly
Speaker 1: only for its first season.
Speaker 2: Well I got fired, You're fired. Without knowing it. I
Speaker 2: started off as a recurring character. We were on every
Speaker 2: episode and we said, well, you got to make us
Speaker 2: a regular. There's a big difference in pay see. After
Speaker 2: about six episode, they made us regulars, and then we
Speaker 2: asked them in April, am I going to be coming back. Yes,
Speaker 2: of course, I go do the music Man out in
Speaker 2: North Carolina in summers because I always do theater during
Speaker 2: the summer, so I'm guaranteed I don't have to go
Speaker 2: make a lot of money because I got a show
Speaker 2: on the air. I get a call from Paul's manager
Speaker 2: that I'm not coming back, and I start to cry.
Speaker 2: It's on a payphone where I'm living out in North Carolina,
Speaker 2: that you know we're sharing the And I get a
Speaker 2: phone call and I go, why do They go, well,
Speaker 2: we just don't think that you're working on it. I
Speaker 2: was the only person who was let go and I said,
Speaker 2: I don't understand, and they go, well, we just don't
Speaker 2: think that you're right right now for the show. And
Speaker 2: I just and I didn't call Paul. But and then Danny,
Speaker 2: who was a great guy, but he did not stand
Speaker 2: up for me. He thinks some funny, he thinks some
Speaker 2: great but he did not stand up for me. And
Speaker 2: they this is who the guy created the show.
Speaker 1: And Paul and I.
Speaker 2: Have made up with both of them, yeah, in ways
Speaker 2: that we didn't even properly make up. But I should
Speaker 2: I should be mad at both of them.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, we all I was the biggest movie star
Speaker 1: in the world at that time. Wanted me to do
Speaker 1: a movie with him. And there's another guy they wanted.
Speaker 1: They had cast this sky and then he couldn't. There
Speaker 1: was a conflict in his schedule. He couldn't do the movie.
Speaker 1: The TV show he's doing wouldn't let him out. So
Speaker 1: they call me and they go, it's you. It's you,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. The director, the writer, the producer, the star.
Speaker 1: They call me. Oh, they're on a comfortable they're all
Speaker 1: on a comfort Oh through the phone. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And I'm sitting in my car and like West Hollywood,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go buy like T shirts and some
Speaker 1: fucking store there and on Melrose and they call me
Speaker 1: and go, it's you. And my agent goes, it's you.
Speaker 1: They're gonna do the movie with you. Within a week,
Speaker 1: nobody calls me. Nobody says they say, you're out. They
Speaker 1: blow my deal. They completely dynamical because the guy they
Speaker 1: make him available, the other guy comes back again, which
Speaker 1: was their desire. And you never want a director looking
Speaker 1: down the lens wishing somebody else was there. I've been
Speaker 1: there before.
Speaker 2: I don't like it. I mean, in a series. You
Speaker 2: can't quit, but they can fire.
Speaker 1: You now when you go. This is always intriguing to
Speaker 1: me because when I did thirty Rock with Tina. You know,
Speaker 1: Tina was the one who, in whatever language she used,
Speaker 1: she impressed upon me. The network's harder. It's harder to
Speaker 1: make it funny. I know, you can't say fuck the
Speaker 1: girl can't come out of the cake from the top
Speaker 1: of Cable and streaming are different fish, and to make
Speaker 1: it really funny and edergy on network is harder. Your
Speaker 1: career transitions Carol Burnette and Mad About You and spend
Speaker 1: Citty for years and then you go into curb. Describe
Speaker 1: that arc for me. Do you miss the old ways
Speaker 1: or do you like being able to say whatever you
Speaker 1: want to say on streaming TV.
Speaker 2: Gee, that's an interesting question that I don't know whether
Speaker 2: I can answer. Like I just did an episode of
Speaker 2: Night Court. I don't think you need to say whatever
Speaker 2: you're referring to in order to be funny, but I
Speaker 2: will tell you where I did miss it is right now.
Speaker 2: I like doing single camera better than four camera. So
Speaker 2: having just done Night Court, which I enjoyed and the
Speaker 2: cast is phenomenal, and the show's funny, everything like that.
Speaker 2: But I did a show called East New York last
Speaker 2: year which was well regarded, highly rated, the Jimmy Smith's
Speaker 2: Amanda Warren. If you know Amanda, it's a great, great cast.
Speaker 2: I missed cursing there did, Yes, I did. But but
Speaker 2: for network it was as gritty as a show could
Speaker 2: be a lah NYPD Blue because it's was written and
Speaker 2: created by an NYPD Blue alum guy named Bill Finkelstein.
Speaker 1: So using it warranted them.
Speaker 2: It should, but it's Network TV and they there are
Speaker 2: certain FCC rules.
Speaker 1: That's a dramatic show. But it was, oh yeah, because
Speaker 1: you like, I'm not just saying this to be kind.
Speaker 1: There are people who are arthic, are very funny, who
Speaker 1: you'd see that they had a and I see what
Speaker 1: I see. This is a very subjective process. But I
Speaker 1: mean where you take Mathow and Mathou is comic genius
Speaker 1: and he plays it straight. I put you in that category.
Speaker 1: You can do it. You can do anything. Very you
Speaker 1: can because you're because you have your commanding, your your
Speaker 1: you're articulate, you're beyond funny. But I mean you drive.
Speaker 1: We used to stay on thirty Rock all the time.
Speaker 1: You give the scene the stick to the end, you
Speaker 1: give this you you don't pause. People just keep you
Speaker 1: got to keep. Yeah, And you have that velocity in
Speaker 1: that pace of a very smart person. And I put
Speaker 1: you in that category where you can do the drama
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Well. I recently you do more drama. Who the fuck
Speaker 2: is going to hire me?
Speaker 1: Somebody smart?
Speaker 2: Well, that's right, but you don't always get that in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: Now here's something that I did do and it's we're
Speaker 2: trying to shop it now I should send it to you.
Speaker 2: It's called hit Man. Do you know who Lawrence Block is? Yes,
Speaker 2: Lawrence Block wrote a series of books, three books called
Speaker 2: hit Man. Each chapter is a hit. But it's a
Speaker 2: guy who looks like me, maybe lives on thirty eighth
Speaker 2: between second and third Murray Hill, exactly, a guy who
Speaker 2: you would and is a killer the way some guys
Speaker 2: are plumbers and some guys repair cars. He knows that
Speaker 2: the HiT's going to be done. It's not that he's
Speaker 2: a moral he just does his job. And that's the
Speaker 2: kind of character it is. There is not a funny
Speaker 2: moment in it.
Speaker 1: I'm you're gonna do it?
Speaker 2: You think we did a twenty minute pilot and it's
Speaker 2: pretty good friends of yours. Peter Regert, Karen Allen. They're
Speaker 2: both in a worship parent. Oh, it's the best, the best,
Speaker 2: that great, beautiful funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the Bill Sadler, you know Bill Sadler. You know there,
Speaker 2: they're in it. And I am very quiet and not
Speaker 2: loud and serious and it's straight up for good.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Big Knife. Who invited you to the
Speaker 1: party there? You weren't involved with Joanne when they did it,
Speaker 1: And yes, I did.
Speaker 2: It with Joanne and Joanne Joanne wanted you.
Speaker 1: Who the part?
Speaker 2: Scott Cohen played the lidro? Yeah, yeah, I was wonderful.
Speaker 2: And Chris Reeves's wife, Dana, Dana, and she was magnificent.
Speaker 1: She was great.
Speaker 2: I thank god, she had no idea. You talk about
Speaker 2: taking a gamble, She had no idea. Who I was,
Speaker 2: no idea in the world. So I go to the
Speaker 2: Paul in her apartment and and I got up there
Speaker 2: and that's where I read, and I read the thing.
Speaker 2: And thank god she didn't know me from Mad About
Speaker 2: You or or Spin City or any of that stuff,
Speaker 2: so that I could be this character. And I came
Speaker 2: in as a blank slate, and she gave me the job.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: You know, when I'm I'm doing thirty Rock and we
Speaker 1: get toward the end and I this was, how did
Speaker 1: Tina ask you to do it? Why? I think that
Speaker 1: she jokingly said something to Lauren about me, or he
Speaker 1: said something. It was always between the two of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, law Lauren.
Speaker 1: Wanted me to come. He said, would you come and
Speaker 1: do the show? And I did not want to do
Speaker 1: a series because I was getting divorced and my daughter
Speaker 1: was in LA and she was very young. And Lauren said,
Speaker 1: I'll make the schedule suit you. You'll be able to
Speaker 1: go to LA every weekend or every other weekend. So
Speaker 1: they made the schedule very convenient for me. It was
Speaker 1: almost a joke, and I went and did the show.
Speaker 1: I remember toward the end. I mean, there were many
Speaker 1: moments that was just very affecting to me throughout. I
Speaker 1: mean many that I thought to myself, these guys are
Speaker 1: just the funniest writers. But toward the end, I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there and they go, we want to ask your ex wife.
Speaker 1: They're going to have Kenneth the page. I jack Donneghey
Speaker 1: makes him the president of NBC Universal. I'm going to
Speaker 1: make him the president, and his father has died, and
Speaker 1: his stepmother's going to fly up to New York from
Speaker 1: Georgia to visit him. And it's my ex wife, Kim
Speaker 1: Basinger is going to play the part, and they're going
Speaker 1: to have me fall in love with his stepmother and
Speaker 1: marry my ex wife on the show Jesus, and Kenneth
Speaker 1: becomes the president and he becomes my step son in law,
Speaker 1: and the waves all came together. I was in tears,
Speaker 1: laughing how amazing this was. But then Kim didn't want
Speaker 1: to do the play.
Speaker 2: She said, now, she just said, all right, I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell you something. I once got the great honor
Speaker 2: of introducing you at some benefit of some sort, and
Speaker 2: I remember saying, I can't say to your face because
Speaker 2: we're peers, we're friends, and you don't do that. But
Speaker 2: you are phenomenal.
Speaker 1: Oh you're very good.
Speaker 2: No, you're a you're great. And this was years ago,
Speaker 2: and you're only greater. This is before you did thirty Rocket. Right,
Speaker 2: you are precise, you are great. You you are just
Speaker 2: dead on. It'sid enough that you're handsome, it's enough you're charismatic.
Speaker 2: You're so good in the roles that you still go
Speaker 2: but but that you are so good at podcasts. The
Speaker 2: episode you did on the Garbage, I've ever listened to
Speaker 2: it three four times. I tell everybody to listen to it.
Speaker 2: It is so fascinating.
Speaker 1: What's been more difficult for you the lifestyle and what
Speaker 1: it's done and how it's played out in your life.
Speaker 1: Never that family, kids, all that's being away, traveling or
Speaker 1: the work itself.
Speaker 2: Neither is hard. I mean, you have Daniel day Lewis
Speaker 2: who submerges himself into the character, which I don't believe
Speaker 2: at all, But he sits alone and he does that.
Speaker 2: Michael Stolberg, I've seen do stuff like that. I show
Speaker 2: up and I go today, I'm this guy. Let's play
Speaker 2: pretend and I play pretend saying anybody else you the
Speaker 2: same thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? But I but will I do?
Speaker 2: I try to try. I do turn off my phone
Speaker 2: on the set. First of all. I like talking to people,
Speaker 2: and the people on the set are more interesting.
Speaker 1: I want to stay connected to the set in the
Speaker 1: world i'm in.
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a great acting teacher who I was
Speaker 2: lucky to have, Harry mastro Joy have him.
Speaker 1: I heard the name.
Speaker 2: He was great Raleiota took from him a lot and
Speaker 2: anyway's pretty great. And he just said, just go play.
Speaker 2: Pretend when you see kids out on a playground doing
Speaker 2: Cowboys and Indians, there they go what tribe was I from?
Speaker 1: Where?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: What state?
Speaker 2: Where's what state I went? Now they go play Cowboys
Speaker 2: and Indians and that's.
Speaker 1: That's when we play asters, which Apollo mission is this? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right, But but in my head, in my head, I
Speaker 2: imagine in my head, I've made decisions. I haven't done research,
Speaker 2: but I have made decisions in my head.
Speaker 1: This is where I know. Michael Dorsey, you Dustin's carater
Speaker 1: right right, exactly exactly I am. I was a beefsteak
Speaker 1: tomat all.
Speaker 2: But but but he said, you have to go over
Speaker 2: the script. All the answers are in the script. That's
Speaker 2: what Harry said. Every answer you want is in the script,
Speaker 2: and that's what they do. You pour over the script.
Speaker 2: Anthony Hopkins used to do that, read the script thirty times,
Speaker 2: he would read a third prey forty times. By the way,
Speaker 2: you want a great story, my favorite showish story. I
Speaker 2: know where we're going out about tomast go out on Tom.
Speaker 2: If we'll go out on Tom McGowan, a great character actor,
Speaker 2: great guy. There's a show called La Bette Friend of Yours.
Speaker 2: Ron Silver is the lead. Okay, Ron Silver, a week
Speaker 2: before they open, decides to quit. He doesn't want to
Speaker 2: open the show. Tom McGowan is the understudy. They go
Speaker 2: to Tom McGowan, They go, do you know the show?
Speaker 2: He says, of course I do, and it's a forty
Speaker 2: minute monologue. You know La Bette? Do you know the show?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: You can go on.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: They go, we are going to ask Kevin Kleine if
Speaker 2: he wants to take over for Ron Silver. If he does,
Speaker 2: we're going to close the show, rehearse for four weeks
Speaker 2: and open with Kevin Klein. If Kevin Clein says no,
Speaker 2: We're going to open on schedule in a week on
Speaker 2: Broadway with you can you do it? Says of course.
Speaker 2: He goes home to call his mother. He says, Mom,
Speaker 2: they're gonna ask Kevin Klein if he wants to do it.
Speaker 2: If he says no, I'm opening next week as the
Speaker 2: lead in this Broadway show. His mother goes, oh, I hope.
Speaker 2: Kevin Klein says, yes, I love him. It's my favorite show.
Speaker 2: This story.
Speaker 1: You're somebody who has that thing. You come on screen
Speaker 1: and everybody's happy.
Speaker 2: That's nice.
Speaker 1: They're happy to see you. They know they're gonna laugh,
Speaker 1: they know they're gonna think. They know that. You're an
Speaker 1: intelligent comic actor mostly, but you do drama as well.
Speaker 1: But you're somebody who the minu You come on screen,
Speaker 1: everybody's happy. They're happy to be with you. They want
Speaker 1: to be with you, and that's why you need to
Speaker 1: do this until you're ninety five.
Speaker 2: Fucker not what I will, but it's true. I love it.
Speaker 1: I think you're amazing. You're so talented. Everybody in this
Speaker 1: business loves you. Everybody in the business loves you. That's
Speaker 1: a big thing. Respect you. They think you can do
Speaker 1: any they think you can do it. Well, don't cry anyway.
Speaker 2: I love you, Thank you, I love you very very much.
Speaker 2: I love you.
Speaker 1: My thanks to Richard Kind. This episode was produced by
Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is
Speaker 1: Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing is recorded at CDM Studios. I'm Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio,