Speaker 1: This is Talia Schlanger, and you're listening to Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing from I Heart Radio. There are some people you
Speaker 1: just can't help but fall in love with when you
Speaker 1: see them on TV. Amy Schneider is one of those people.
Speaker 1: She won a lot of hearts and a lot of
Speaker 1: money when she took Jeopardy by storm earlier this year
Speaker 1: and became the most successful woman in the show's history.
Speaker 1: Schneider held a forty game winning streak, which is the
Speaker 1: second longest ever, and racked up an incredible one point
Speaker 1: three million dollars in winnings. But it was Amy Schneider's
Speaker 1: warmth and charm behind the podium that quickly endeared her
Speaker 1: to Jeopardy audiences around the world. Schneider is back now,
Speaker 1: competing in the Jeopardy Tournament of Champions this month, but
Speaker 1: before we get to that, I wanted to know what
Speaker 1: it was like for her the first time the phone
Speaker 1: rang and a voice on the other end said You're
Speaker 1: going to be on Jeopardy. It was the fall of
Speaker 1: and you know, it was something I've been trying for
Speaker 1: for a long time. And I got a text and
Speaker 1: it was like, Hey, this is John from Jeopardy. Do
Speaker 1: you have time to talk this afternoon. It's it's good news.
Speaker 1: And so I, you know, pretty much knew what it was,
Speaker 1: and you know, we talked and he said that I
Speaker 1: was going to be on the show. Yeah. So you've
Speaker 1: been auditioning for years. What do you think it was
Speaker 1: this time that made you successful? Yeah, I mean, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, to an extent, I don't know that's the
Speaker 1: secrets of the Jeopardy casting process, but I definitely think
Speaker 1: a big factor was that it was the first time
Speaker 1: I had reached the sort of in person although it
Speaker 1: was over zoom auditions, since I transitioned, and I realized
Speaker 1: looking back on it, I mean even when I just
Speaker 1: looked like old pictures of myself some you know, the
Speaker 1: occasional old videos of myself, like I'm just so closed
Speaker 1: off and so like, you know, not wanting to reveal
Speaker 1: anything about myself and and not wanting to give anything away,
Speaker 1: and that, you know, is not the case anymore, and
Speaker 1: that's that's not how I am now that I've transitioned,
Speaker 1: And so I think I was just much more like
Speaker 1: lively and engaging to them, you know, to be on
Speaker 1: camera than that I had been in the past. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's so interesting. I mean, I'm sort of done by
Speaker 1: that right off the bat, that it's bringing your full
Speaker 1: self to the table. Is something that allowed you to
Speaker 1: achieve this lifelong dream. Yeah. No, And that's been like
Speaker 1: a sort of just unexpected lesson of transitioning that that
Speaker 1: I think can apply to a lot of people. Is that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I just thought it was something I had
Speaker 1: to do and it was going to make my life
Speaker 1: harder in a lot of ways, but I just needed to.
Speaker 1: But then it's it's made my life easier in a
Speaker 1: ton of ways that I just didn't think about and
Speaker 1: didn't expect. You know that when you're being yourself and
Speaker 1: whatever you're doing, you're you're just more successful at it
Speaker 1: and things come easier. And that's that's not something I
Speaker 1: expected to happen. Wow, it's so it's beautiful. And I
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit more about that, about
Speaker 1: the transition later and about that part of your life.
Speaker 1: But first, so you get the call from Jeopardy from
Speaker 1: this text message in the in the afternoon. How long
Speaker 1: is it between the time that you find out that
Speaker 1: you are going to be a contestant on Jeopardy and
Speaker 1: the time that you actually have to pack your bags
Speaker 1: and and go walk into that studio. Yeah, so generally
Speaker 1: it's like three or four weeks, like coming down in
Speaker 1: three weeks, that will be the date you tape your episodes.
Speaker 1: And I did. I flew down to l A. And
Speaker 1: then that afternoon they called and they were like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's been an issue like negotiations with the union over COVID,
Speaker 1: you know, protocols or whatever, and so we're we're just
Speaker 1: going to have to cancel taping and we'll reschedule you
Speaker 1: for a few weeks later. So I flew back home,
Speaker 1: and then in the intervening time, Alex passed away, and
Speaker 1: so you know, obviously everything was kind of up in
Speaker 1: the air, and they eventually, for for me and a
Speaker 1: few other people that were kind of in my position
Speaker 1: that have been rescheduled a couple of times, they decided
Speaker 1: to just put us on hold until they were sure
Speaker 1: things were stable and they wouldn't have to reschedule us again.
Speaker 1: But they didn't. They didn't actually tell us that. So
Speaker 1: I was just like waiting a year, being like, is
Speaker 1: this really going to happen? Are they like? Have I
Speaker 1: been tricked to a dream that it was a weird
Speaker 1: interlude there, did you say a year? Yeah, so wait
Speaker 1: a minute, You've achieved your dream and now you have
Speaker 1: to wait a year and tell me what are you
Speaker 1: doing in that year? Are you preparing yourself, are you
Speaker 1: giving up hope? Combination of all of this. Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess what I'd say is that, like
Speaker 1: the way the Jeopardy audition process works is that once
Speaker 1: you get to that last stage, they just tell you, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're in the You're in the pool for the next
Speaker 1: eighteen months, and in that eighteen months you might get
Speaker 1: a call to be like, hey, you're on the show.
Speaker 1: And if you don't, then you didn't start over from
Speaker 1: the beginning. And so it was not the first time
Speaker 1: in my life that had been in that kind of
Speaker 1: state of this might be happening soon, so you know,
Speaker 1: and I was just doing kind of what I've always done,
Speaker 1: which is basically nothing too intense, but mainly just like
Speaker 1: during my downtimes, going through old games online, old questions
Speaker 1: and just sort of looking for things that I was
Speaker 1: consistently not knowing, or you know, patterns of things that
Speaker 1: that they focus on that that might be unexpected, Like
Speaker 1: you know, they talk about like Edith Wharton and Henry
Speaker 1: James and like turn of the century authors, like a
Speaker 1: lot more than most people are. You know, they have
Speaker 1: these weird kind of like you know, things that they're
Speaker 1: they're disproportionately focused on. So yeah, So I mean, like
Speaker 1: that's just something that I've you know, done off and
Speaker 1: on for the you know, twelve thirteen years that I've
Speaker 1: been auditioning, and so I just you know, kept doing that. Wow,
Speaker 1: So You've been preparing for this a long time, and
Speaker 1: I think probably your whole life building up this brain network.
Speaker 1: I want to know, what else are you reading encyclopedias?
Speaker 1: Are you keeping up with the news, are you calling friends?
Speaker 1: What are you doing? Yeah? One thing I'd say is
Speaker 1: that apart from the like going through the old Jeopardy games,
Speaker 1: like I'm not doing much like specifically studying for Jeopardy.
Speaker 1: I've just always been just sort of curious and wanting
Speaker 1: to explore and find out new things. So like, you know,
Speaker 1: for you know, as long as it's been around. When
Speaker 1: I'm protrastinating at work, one of my things I'll do
Speaker 1: is just kind of go to Wikipedia and sort of
Speaker 1: just like click around and find something interesting and then
Speaker 1: and read up on it. I mean I've always been
Speaker 1: a big reader. Sometimes starting in my like mid twenties,
Speaker 1: I really like started gravitating towards history and reading a
Speaker 1: lot of that. And that's that's true to this day.
Speaker 1: That's like probably like fifty of what I read, and
Speaker 1: so that too. I think his returns out to be
Speaker 1: really useful for Jeopardy and you know, life, because it
Speaker 1: kind of touches everything, like, you know, everything you know,
Speaker 1: a good work of history will tie into you know,
Speaker 1: economics and politics and science and gender relations and art
Speaker 1: and and everything else. Can you know fit into that?
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Now there's a pattern that I think
Speaker 1: is really interesting. You studied computer science. Ken Jennings, who's
Speaker 1: the current host of Jeopardy and the longest reigning champion,
Speaker 1: also studied computer science, and Matt Emotio, who is now
Speaker 1: below you as the third longest streak in Jeopardy history
Speaker 1: with thirty seven wins, also has a PhD in computer science.
Speaker 1: I found that really surprising because you don't think of
Speaker 1: that as a subject that a lot of questions are about.
Speaker 1: But do you have a theories or something about the
Speaker 1: computer science brain. Yeah, I think that there's a certain
Speaker 1: type of person that gets into programming because you know,
Speaker 1: and this is at least the case for me, because
Speaker 1: of kind of the creative side of it. You know,
Speaker 1: it is something that it's got the career security that
Speaker 1: creative writing and art and things like that don't have.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you are kind of starting
Speaker 1: with a blank page and being like, make a thing.
Speaker 1: That's why some people get into it. Some people just
Speaker 1: have these really like orderly logical minds that fit well
Speaker 1: to it, and those I don't think are going to
Speaker 1: be as well suited to jeopardy. But I think if
Speaker 1: you're interested in that. And the other thing that I
Speaker 1: found fascinating about it was that it's really about translation.
Speaker 1: That you're taking something a human said and telling it
Speaker 1: to a computer, and that forces you to realize all
Speaker 1: the like unstated assumptions and you know, subtext and everything
Speaker 1: else that go into you know, human language, because the
Speaker 1: computer doesn't know anything, it isn't going to assume anything,
Speaker 1: and you have to tell it all explicitly, and so
Speaker 1: it requires you to understand things kind of in a
Speaker 1: deep way in order to tell them to a computer.
Speaker 1: And so if you're interested in like diving into things
Speaker 1: like that there's a good chance that you'll apply that interest,
Speaker 1: not just programming budget, to just whatever else. One of
Speaker 1: the things about me, but like I always you know,
Speaker 1: didn't quite fit in in the industry, was that like
Speaker 1: a lot of programmers will work all day and then
Speaker 1: go home and then write more code at night for
Speaker 1: their own personal projects. And that was never me. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's fine for the day, but I've got
Speaker 1: other stuff I want to do with the rest of
Speaker 1: my time, like what oh, you know, like I've always
Speaker 1: had like various half finished projects going on, like if
Speaker 1: I've always needed to have something creative going on in
Speaker 1: my life. For for most of my life, that was theater,
Speaker 1: and it was like if I went, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: six months without being in a play, I'd get like
Speaker 1: itchy and I feel like I needed to do it again.
Speaker 1: And then in the last ten years or so, it's
Speaker 1: just the time commitment, I just haven't really been able
Speaker 1: to do that. So I've been finding other things I've done,
Speaker 1: like stand up comedy. One of the big things I've
Speaker 1: done was podcasting at a Doubt Nappy podcast. For a
Speaker 1: long time, that until now was my claim to fame.
Speaker 1: It was it was reasonably successful. I've got probably like
Speaker 1: ten twenty things that are like ideas I had and
Speaker 1: started on and abandoned that I intend to pick up
Speaker 1: again someday. Yeah. Okay, wait, we're taking a little detour here,
Speaker 1: but I have to know, is there a dream role
Speaker 1: that you have in theater that you'd like to play
Speaker 1: one day? Yeah? I think, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: wound up like doing a lot of comic roles in
Speaker 1: my time, so definitely one of the like big, you know,
Speaker 1: tragedy ones. I think both McBeth and Lady McBeth are
Speaker 1: fascinating roles that i'd be by be interested in. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: oh wow, imagine playing both of them on alternating nights
Speaker 1: or something like that. Right, Yeah, that would be something
Speaker 1: that would be fascinating. Oh and the other one would
Speaker 1: be one of the three leads in Rosencranson Guild and
Speaker 1: Sturner Dead. That's that's maybe my favorite play. M M.
Speaker 1: I love it. Okay, back to Jeopardy. So we've got
Speaker 1: the brain prep and I guess it sounds to me
Speaker 1: almost I'm picturing like neural networks that you're building in
Speaker 1: your in your mind almost as a web for mental preparation.
Speaker 1: But then there's also the physical preparation of button clicking,
Speaker 1: buzzer pressing, Like you got to be good at the buzzer,
Speaker 1: So how did you go about preparing for that aspect
Speaker 1: of being on Jeopardy. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's
Speaker 1: only so much you can do, so I definitely i'd
Speaker 1: read you know, past champions and the advice of they've given,
Speaker 1: and certainly, you know, when I was watching the game
Speaker 1: at home, i'd have like a ballpoint pen just to
Speaker 1: sort of get in the habit of like that. Absolutely okay,
Speaker 1: But the thing about it is like you can't really know,
Speaker 1: Like the way the buzzer works is that there's somebody
Speaker 1: flipping a switch that enables them and turns on some
Speaker 1: lights by the side of the board when the when
Speaker 1: the host finishes the question, and if you buzz in
Speaker 1: before they've flipped that switch, then when they do flip
Speaker 1: the switch, your buzzer is locked out for a quarter second,
Speaker 1: and so other people will be able to get in
Speaker 1: ahead of you. And so it's really like it's just
Speaker 1: all about like, you know, being in tune with that
Speaker 1: person and you know, no, you know, feeling when they're
Speaker 1: about to do it so like I had, you know,
Speaker 1: I had read that advice and I went in with
Speaker 1: a certain strategy of like, okay, you sort of aim
Speaker 1: for like the last syllable of the clue as the
Speaker 1: hostess reading it and things like that, and it was
Speaker 1: doing okay, but it wasn't really it wasn't doing well enough.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was up against this really good champion
Speaker 1: in my first game, and so for whatever reason, I
Speaker 1: just in the middle of it was just just decided
Speaker 1: to kind of throw that out and just stop trying
Speaker 1: to time it and just going by like intuition and
Speaker 1: just feeling when the right moment was. And it worked
Speaker 1: and it it kept working. So you know, it's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that would work for everyone, but
Speaker 1: that that's how it was for me. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: that first game. Tell me what it was like the
Speaker 1: first time you walked onto the Alextro Bug stage at
Speaker 1: Sony Pictures Studios, Like, what how did it compare to
Speaker 1: what you had dreamed of? Yeah, walking on the stage
Speaker 1: was you know, it was a lot And that was
Speaker 1: really I think the biggest, you know, some of the
Speaker 1: most important preparation I did was in the last week
Speaker 1: or two before taping, because I realized that, like I
Speaker 1: was so afraid of losing that like it was getting
Speaker 1: kind of paralyzing and becoming counterproductive. And so really in
Speaker 1: that time, I was really focusing on lowering the stakes
Speaker 1: for myself and saying, it's fine, like if you go
Speaker 1: on and lose, you go on and lose. It's definitely
Speaker 1: a possibility that really might happen, and it would be
Speaker 1: okay if it did, you know, and you're just there
Speaker 1: to like be in the moment, have fun, enjoy the experience,
Speaker 1: and let the chips fall where they may. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, I was definitely it was definitely an effort
Speaker 1: that that you know, anxiety and that tension and everything
Speaker 1: was still trying to creep in there, and I was
Speaker 1: like having to actively hold it down. But I'm glad
Speaker 1: I really did that preparation. I don't I think I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had a chance without it. That's massive, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a whole It sounds to me like like what
Speaker 1: an elite athlete would have to do in order to
Speaker 1: cite themselves up for an Olympic game or to like
Speaker 1: to keep their head in it. Yeah. Absolutely, it's funny
Speaker 1: because I am a sports fan, and like, I don't
Speaker 1: hang out I hang out with like, you know, actors
Speaker 1: and comedians and artists, and like I never have anybody
Speaker 1: to talk sports with. But it was like, especially as
Speaker 1: it went on, I really was finding myself being like,
Speaker 1: I really start to understand these sort of sports cliches
Speaker 1: and the sort of like the answers that athletes given
Speaker 1: interviews that are kind of like formulaic. Like I really
Speaker 1: started to see that competition and that that trying to
Speaker 1: be you know, completely focused, trying to be at the
Speaker 1: peak of your game. I was surprised by how suddenly
Speaker 1: relatable I felt like professional athletes were, oh yeah, and
Speaker 1: the endurance of it as well, Like I read somewhere
Speaker 1: that you tape five episodes in a day, which is
Speaker 1: fine if you're you know, in for a couple episodes
Speaker 1: and then you lose, But if you're on a forty
Speaker 1: game winning street, can you please paint the picture for
Speaker 1: me of like what it is like to actually compete
Speaker 1: in five full episodes of Jeopardy one day. It's a lot,
Speaker 1: you know. One thing about it is that during the
Speaker 1: game itself, like it goes at such a fast pace
Speaker 1: that it's like there's like not time to be fatigued
Speaker 1: or whatever. Like you you sort of don't notice it,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, especially like after the first full
Speaker 1: day that I did, I definitely I was just so
Speaker 1: physically tired. At the end of it. I really focused on,
Speaker 1: you know, the next day, I was there really conserving
Speaker 1: my energy through everything else through through the rest of
Speaker 1: the day, Like every time the cameras rof I was
Speaker 1: like leaning on the podium and like stretching out my legs,
Speaker 1: giving my feet a rest, that sort of thing, because
Speaker 1: it is it's it's like an eleven hour day and
Speaker 1: you do too a week, and like by the end
Speaker 1: of that second day, it was just like I was done.
Speaker 1: How do you even have the energy to walk like
Speaker 1: go back to your hotel? You just go back to
Speaker 1: your hotel room and flop on the bed. I did.
Speaker 1: I did. I would go and just lie down and
Speaker 1: like do nothing, Like I wouldn't look at my phone,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think, I wouldn't like just do anything, just
Speaker 1: like lie there until I could like start the function again. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's so weird too, because you're having this experience
Speaker 1: kind of privately, like it's not airing as it's taping.
Speaker 1: You're taping these episodes that will air, you know, months
Speaker 1: in advance, So that has to be a very strange
Speaker 1: feeling as well. I would think it definitely was. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think overall, I'm glad that it worked that way.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, a few things, Like one is
Speaker 1: that I was really bummed as it was leading up
Speaker 1: to my final episode because I knew. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: all these people are going to be so sad that
Speaker 1: I lose, you know. And so if I if my
Speaker 1: episodes have been airing, and I'd sort of had at
Speaker 1: pressure of like knowing that people were like rooting for me,
Speaker 1: that that would have made it harder, I think, And
Speaker 1: I think that, you know. And it also like and
Speaker 1: there was no studio audience. It was just the other
Speaker 1: contestants and the crew, and so that also made it
Speaker 1: easier to just ignore the cameras and not worry too
Speaker 1: much about that stuff. But then when I was at
Speaker 1: home and and and you know, and then in the
Speaker 1: weeks after I was done taping and leading up to
Speaker 1: the airing of the episodes, that was really strange. You know.
Speaker 1: I told a few people, probably more than I really
Speaker 1: should have, but you know, still it was it was
Speaker 1: a secret from a lot of people, and it was
Speaker 1: just like I knew I had done this historic thing,
Speaker 1: and I knew that this was going to be a
Speaker 1: huge deal and you know, kind of a life changing thing,
Speaker 1: and yet nobody knew about it, and I couldn't talk
Speaker 1: about it. It was it was really weird. Oh, for sure,
Speaker 1: it had to be. Were you watching the episodes with people?
Speaker 1: Certainly Genevieve every night, my girlfriend at the time, and
Speaker 1: you know, reasonably often we'd go over. There's a you know,
Speaker 1: a couple that lives near Ross. We would go over
Speaker 1: to their house. For the first episode, we had like
Speaker 1: a whole watch party, like my friend's got an airbnb
Speaker 1: and we had like eight or ten people, and like
Speaker 1: it was it was a whole event, and we kind
Speaker 1: of did a bit for the last episode two, but
Speaker 1: otherwise it was just like, yeah, we were just kind
Speaker 1: of living our lives and you know, if somebody happened
Speaker 1: to be over, we'd watch with them, and if not,
Speaker 1: it was just with us. You're probably like, if we
Speaker 1: have a watch party every episode that I'm on Friends,
Speaker 1: you're in for a long like a month and a
Speaker 1: half of Watch period. I mean that was the other thing.
Speaker 1: Those those first couple of episodes. I'm getting, like the
Speaker 1: first you know, five episodes. I've got these people who
Speaker 1: are text me every time being like, oh, good job,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you don't know what you've the commitment
Speaker 1: you've signed up for if you're going to be texting
Speaker 1: this every time. Jeopardy champion Amy Schneider. If you like
Speaker 1: conversations about competitive game shows, check out our episode with
Speaker 1: host of That's My jam An, executive producer of Password,
Speaker 1: Jimmy Fallon. My mom goes, you know that Tom Cruise
Speaker 1: is great. Thanks watching. He looked really good with his
Speaker 1: long hand. You, he says his Tom Cruise, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: really liked his long hair. I go, yeah, he looks
Speaker 1: good with long hair. He's Tom Cruise. Yeah I really
Speaker 1: like his long hair. I go, I heard you the
Speaker 1: first three time. Okay, I'm giving you a hint to
Speaker 1: grow your hair out. It's too short to hang up
Speaker 1: the phone. Oh, I started hooking up. I started make hands,
Speaker 1: returning green, I short started a rip. Here more of
Speaker 1: Alex conversation with Jimmy Fallon in our archives at Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing dot org. After the break, I talked to
Speaker 1: Amy Schneider about the mixed feelings she had when her
Speaker 1: epic Jeopardy run finally ended. I'm Talia Schlanger, and you're
Speaker 1: listening to Here's the thing. Amy Schneider broke multiple records
Speaker 1: in her Jeopardy run this winter. She's currently number five
Speaker 1: on the all time total winnings list. She also holds
Speaker 1: the second longest of victory streak and is the winningest
Speaker 1: woman in Jeopardy history. I was curious about her strategy
Speaker 1: for tackling the infamous Jeopardy board. The one sort of
Speaker 1: like specific strategy thing I had was to like go
Speaker 1: after categories that I felt weaker in first, so that
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be as much money at stake if there
Speaker 1: is a daily double. But beyond that, my sort of
Speaker 1: meta strategy or that, the way I was thinking about
Speaker 1: it was, I just wanted as few things to think
Speaker 1: about as possible, so I didn't do too much about
Speaker 1: like thinking about like, you know, a lot of recent
Speaker 1: champions have gone for the higher value that you know,
Speaker 1: amounts first, or like jumping around to keep it, pull
Speaker 1: off balance or things like that, and I didn't want
Speaker 1: to do that for a couple of reasons. One is
Speaker 1: that you know, it was an extra thing to think about,
Speaker 1: and it would you know, I wanted a simple just
Speaker 1: like choose the next clue in the category and then
Speaker 1: I don't have to think about and make that decision.
Speaker 1: But the other thing is I've been watching the show
Speaker 1: my whole life, and I know that it makes the
Speaker 1: show better. And you know, I love the show, and
Speaker 1: I knew it had have been having a tough time,
Speaker 1: and especially as I was going on, I just like
Speaker 1: I wanted to serve the show and put on a
Speaker 1: good show and understand the people at home, and I
Speaker 1: knew that they would appreciate that you did. I think
Speaker 1: people really fell in love with you. My folks would
Speaker 1: tell me about you all the time, like how like
Speaker 1: they and they're they're not alone, Like so many people
Speaker 1: really just fell fell in love with you, and I
Speaker 1: think really enjoyed rooting for you. And it's probably weird
Speaker 1: to analyze yourself in this way, but I mean, you've
Speaker 1: watched yourself on the show. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: have a take or an idea about what that is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I I do. I think that you know,
Speaker 1: I definitely had like debated going in about like how
Speaker 1: was going to present myself in in certain ways and
Speaker 1: like around my femininity and my voice and different things
Speaker 1: like that, and also you know, just in general, how
Speaker 1: do I want to be on TV? And I eventually
Speaker 1: decided partly in that like don't give myself too many variables.
Speaker 1: Was just like, I'm just going to be myself and
Speaker 1: be as just like authentic as I can be. And
Speaker 1: because if I did that, then I knew that I
Speaker 1: would be okay with how I came off on TV,
Speaker 1: whether or not, you know, people liked it or connected
Speaker 1: with it or whatever, you know, And so I wasn't
Speaker 1: really worrying about whether I'd be connecting with people or not.
Speaker 1: I was just focused on, you know, ignore that, stay
Speaker 1: in the game, be myself, and what will happen happens.
Speaker 1: And I think absolutely I think that people saw that,
Speaker 1: and you know, saw that they were seeing like the
Speaker 1: real me, and and that's what they responded to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: regarding your your voice and your choice to speak in
Speaker 1: your natural speaking register, can you explain to me, like
Speaker 1: have you done gender affirming voice therapy in your outside
Speaker 1: of Jeopardy life to speak a bit differently? I did
Speaker 1: it was It was a few years ago, earlier in
Speaker 1: my transition, and if I was put to it, I
Speaker 1: could like speak in a more feminine voice. It's about
Speaker 1: like just first of all, it's just like you know,
Speaker 1: speaking that higher pitch, but there's also other things about
Speaker 1: like being breathier, like speaking more in your head and
Speaker 1: less in your chest, doing more up talk and being
Speaker 1: more pleasant that way, and that sort of thing, which
Speaker 1: I kind of do naturally anyway, And that was my
Speaker 1: intention was to do that because I really, you know,
Speaker 1: I going into this in particular, I really didn't like
Speaker 1: my voice. I didn't like hearing it. I you know,
Speaker 1: I've done a podcast. I was used to hearing it,
Speaker 1: but I never liked it getting called sir on the
Speaker 1: phone would like really like bump me out a lot,
Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things. And so I really
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine like not doing that feminine voice on TV
Speaker 1: until like the days leading up to it, and it
Speaker 1: just suddenly felt wrong and in ways that I couldn't
Speaker 1: quite define to myself at the time. But it was
Speaker 1: the right decision. I think that. For one thing, like
Speaker 1: it kind of forced me through that dysphoria and that
Speaker 1: dislike because everybody liked me fine, and it wasn't the
Speaker 1: big problem that you know, it's that was in my head.
Speaker 1: And the other thing that I realized afterwards that I
Speaker 1: think I was subconsciously thinking about is that, you know,
Speaker 1: this is how most trans women's voice sounds. Like changing
Speaker 1: your voice is is doable, but it's like really hard
Speaker 1: and a really weird thing to do, and it's a
Speaker 1: very I think most trans women like give up on
Speaker 1: it because it just feels so unnatural and awkward. I
Speaker 1: knew the trans people would be watching me because I
Speaker 1: watched trans contestants on Jeopardy and like really like focused
Speaker 1: in on them, and so I wanted to I didn't
Speaker 1: want to give them like too high of a sort
Speaker 1: of standard to reach, if you will. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to give them this ideal that might feel less attainable
Speaker 1: to them. Wow. I think it also if we go
Speaker 1: back to the elite athlete thing, you had a job
Speaker 1: to do, like you need every bit of your mental
Speaker 1: energy and your physical energy to compete on this program,
Speaker 1: and the idea of having to do an extra little
Speaker 1: bit of mental math or even like reading a slightly
Speaker 1: different way you went for it. You gave yourself the
Speaker 1: best chance to compete. Absolutely, no. I mean it is
Speaker 1: like most of what I was doing in that preparation
Speaker 1: was just thinking about you know, again, I've been telling everybody,
Speaker 1: I went on that show to win money, you know,
Speaker 1: that was that was what I was going there to do.
Speaker 1: But like, I'm so glad that I went with the
Speaker 1: approaches I went with and and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: They had so many more benefits than just giving me
Speaker 1: a better chance to win. Like, I really learned a
Speaker 1: lot about myself through this process. Yeah, did you hear
Speaker 1: from trans people about that particular issue about your voice?
Speaker 1: I did. It was funny. I was really surprised by
Speaker 1: a lot of different stuff that I talked about, like
Speaker 1: somebody connected with you know, I talked about having an
Speaker 1: older sister that died in infancy before I was born,
Speaker 1: and I heard from several people about that. You know,
Speaker 1: I've talked about having a d h d on on
Speaker 1: Twitter and people connecting about that. So, you know, all
Speaker 1: the stuff I've talked, like, you know, everything I've experienced,
Speaker 1: somebody else has experienced, and you know, finding all those
Speaker 1: connections has been you know, I think that's been another
Speaker 1: amazing thing coming out of this is to feel so
Speaker 1: much less alone in these various things, for sure, And
Speaker 1: I think for people to see you. I mean, in
Speaker 1: each episode of Jeopardy, Ken Jennings asks the contestants questions,
Speaker 1: and you're on for forty episodes, so you answer forty
Speaker 1: different questions about different parts of yourself. And I think
Speaker 1: that that was one of the most amazing things to
Speaker 1: watch unfold. It's just like to be able to it,
Speaker 1: to know all these different facets of you over time.
Speaker 1: And I thought it was interesting that you chose to
Speaker 1: talk about being trans like a handful of episodes in.
Speaker 1: Was that a deliberate choice on on your part or
Speaker 1: on the show's part? It was, you know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: like nobody on Jeopardy reference the fact that I was
Speaker 1: trans at all or mentioned it until I brought it up,
Speaker 1: until I wanted to wear that pin, you know, and
Speaker 1: it was clear that, you know, it was empirely up
Speaker 1: to me that they would never have mentioned it if
Speaker 1: I didn't. Yeah, and wait, sorry, just for people who
Speaker 1: are who are listening and maybe not familiar with the
Speaker 1: pin you wore, would you describe it? Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just the trans flag, you know, so a standard flag
Speaker 1: pin but with those colors, and actually Kate Freeman, who
Speaker 1: was the first trans woman to win a game of Jeopardy,
Speaker 1: had worn one, and I didn't want to, like I'd
Speaker 1: consider just like wearing that, but then I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to because you know, I've talked about you know,
Speaker 1: I'm trans, but that can be a thing that kind
Speaker 1: of like overshadows everything else. That can become like the
Speaker 1: thing that you are. And it's like, you know, when
Speaker 1: I think about myself, that's not the first thing that
Speaker 1: I think about, you know, I think about that I'm sport,
Speaker 1: that I live in Oakland, that i'm you know, like
Speaker 1: all these other things, and then you know, that's definitely
Speaker 1: in there. Um, So I didn't want to like make
Speaker 1: it about being the trans person. But then once I
Speaker 1: you know, want a couple of games, it was like, well,
Speaker 1: I also don't want it to be a secret. I
Speaker 1: don't want it to be something that I'm like hiding
Speaker 1: or seem ashamed of or anything else like that, because
Speaker 1: you know, I am trans and I'm proud of it
Speaker 1: and I like it. I think it's I feel sorry
Speaker 1: for his people. I think your lives are more boring
Speaker 1: than man and all that sort of thing. So I
Speaker 1: did want to. I I felt like after a few games,
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I don't want to leave this
Speaker 1: on acknowledged. Yeah, of course, And I think you did
Speaker 1: it in the week leading up to Thanksgiving, which I know.
Speaker 1: I have friends who said that it was very meaningful
Speaker 1: to them to see that, because it was sort of,
Speaker 1: I don't know, to them. They took it as a
Speaker 1: wink and a not of like, you might be going
Speaker 1: to be with your families, you might be in situations
Speaker 1: where it might be hard to talk about this, and
Speaker 1: and I sort of I see you sort of a thing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely what it was. And I mean it's you know,
Speaker 1: like because Thanksgiving, of the various holidays, is the most
Speaker 1: family oriented, and you know, trans people, you know, statistically
Speaker 1: are less likely to have a good relationship with their family,
Speaker 1: and so it can it can be hard. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that was definitely part of the thinking. For sure.
Speaker 1: Can I ask about your relationship to your to your family?
Speaker 1: You know, it's good. My mom there was a little
Speaker 1: bit of like hesitation or something like that, but she
Speaker 1: was always accepting of me when I when I came
Speaker 1: out to her, you know, just sort of resistance on
Speaker 1: like changing pronouns and things like that, but like not
Speaker 1: a big deal, and that's all been good for for
Speaker 1: years at this point. And yeah, my my dad had
Speaker 1: passed away before I came out, and you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not you know, to be honest, I'm not sure how
Speaker 1: that would have gone. And so, you know, we'll we'll
Speaker 1: never know. But my brother is great and always has
Speaker 1: been and always will be. So if we come back
Speaker 1: to the game itself and playing Jeopardy, being in this studio,
Speaker 1: these you know, five show tapings in a day, did
Speaker 1: you surprise yourself with how much you knew or with
Speaker 1: like with answers to questions that you're like, where did
Speaker 1: that come from? In my brain? I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that. I there was definitely cases whereas
Speaker 1: like I don't know how I knew that, but that
Speaker 1: didn't surprise me. That happens to me, like in my life,
Speaker 1: Like I'm you know all the time, I'm like where
Speaker 1: did I learn that? You know, Like, especially as the
Speaker 1: show was going on. I remember specifically like one time
Speaker 1: our friend Will being like, how did you know that?
Speaker 1: And I'm like I read it somewhere once I don't know,
Speaker 1: like and it's stuck, Like how do I answer that question? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Well does it do you feel that you
Speaker 1: have a photographic memory or is it something else? It's
Speaker 1: not photographic for sure, God knows. I lose my phone
Speaker 1: all the time and all sorts of things like that.
Speaker 1: Like I'm bad at remembering people's names and faces. But
Speaker 1: you know, there's something about the way my brain is
Speaker 1: set up that like is just well set up I
Speaker 1: think for like kind of like trivia facts. I don't
Speaker 1: know why, but those things stick in my brain pretty well.
Speaker 1: And I think that part of the reason at least
Speaker 1: is that sort of like wanting to dig into things
Speaker 1: that I talked about, Like I'm no good at remembering
Speaker 1: like years or like these sort of like specific things
Speaker 1: that are kind of like arbitrary and don't really matter, um,
Speaker 1: but like things that I can tie into a story
Speaker 1: and like, you know, this is what was going on
Speaker 1: in the world at that time, or this word, you know,
Speaker 1: it has these etymological things that it comes from, these
Speaker 1: languages or whatever else. Like if you learn something and
Speaker 1: then kind of dig into it more, then that thing
Speaker 1: will stay. Yeah, are there any answers or questions that
Speaker 1: still haunt you from your time there. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: obviously the last one when I lost it is definitely
Speaker 1: one I'll always think about. And there was another one
Speaker 1: that I think was in that same final episode where
Speaker 1: it was a football question and the answer was Johnny
Speaker 1: Unitas they were showing Johnny unitis on the screen. I
Speaker 1: thought Johnny Unitas, and then I rang in and my
Speaker 1: mouth said Joe Namath and I was just like what
Speaker 1: what what? How did that happen? And I know there
Speaker 1: are a few others. I remember a couple of times
Speaker 1: watching where you know, I'm watching the episode out and
Speaker 1: I'm being like ring in, Why am I not ringing in?
Speaker 1: I know this, you know. But yeah, on that last episode,
Speaker 1: can you tell me a bit about the mixed bag
Speaker 1: of feelings that were probably part of it, because I
Speaker 1: imagine one of them maybe was relief a little bit.
Speaker 1: It sounds grueling, Yeah, yeah, I mean definitely, like the
Speaker 1: first thing was just like loss and sadness, Like it
Speaker 1: was really hit me hard in that like first moment,
Speaker 1: you know, and then my my second thought of that
Speaker 1: after that was like, you know, keep it together, like
Speaker 1: don't you know, I really, like Madam Moodio talked about
Speaker 1: when he lost, he really wanted to make sure that
Speaker 1: the person who won was getting the focus on them,
Speaker 1: and you know that it wasn't about his loss and
Speaker 1: it was about their win because it's such a big
Speaker 1: thing for them, and so I wanted to, like, you know,
Speaker 1: be doing the same. But then shortly after I had
Speaker 1: the thought, I don't have to come up with any
Speaker 1: more anecdotes to tell Ken, which was you know, a
Speaker 1: good feeling, and I don't have to keep leaving you know,
Speaker 1: Genevieve and Meep every week and like I can get
Speaker 1: back to my normal life and all those sorts of things.
Speaker 1: I'm I can't imagine how Ken Jennings did what he did.
Speaker 1: I was still so far away from his streak and
Speaker 1: it just like you know, I always respected it, and
Speaker 1: now it just blows my mind. Yes, seventy plus episodes
Speaker 1: something like that, Yeah, yeah, exact number. Did you have
Speaker 1: a good cry? Though? Did you have did you let
Speaker 1: yourself cry? At some point? So I I was walked
Speaker 1: back to where the other contestants were hanging out in
Speaker 1: a in a parking garage, and in a parking garage, yeah,
Speaker 1: for for social distancing, that that was the place they
Speaker 1: could find, and so one thing was on the way over.
Speaker 1: You know, I was clearly struggling a bit, and the
Speaker 1: crew member who was walking me said, it's it's like
Speaker 1: the end of a show, like a play. You know,
Speaker 1: We've all been working together, collaborating to put this thing out,
Speaker 1: and it's just suddenly like gone. And I really appreciated that.
Speaker 1: I realized that was the exact feeling I was having,
Speaker 1: and that also comforted me in a bit, because, like,
Speaker 1: you know, that's not when you think about when you
Speaker 1: go remember a play, you remember the run of it.
Speaker 1: You don't remember that sadness at the end. But so
Speaker 1: I did like then, and I sort of like you know,
Speaker 1: said hi, you know, contestants, and did a little small
Speaker 1: talk like that, and I was like, hey, I gotta
Speaker 1: go to the bathroom. And then I went in the
Speaker 1: bathroom and I cried for a couple of minutes and
Speaker 1: I let that go, you know, and then pulled myself
Speaker 1: up together and came back out. But yes, I did.
Speaker 1: I knew I needed to, Oh for sure. I can't
Speaker 1: imagine the release of that. I also read somewhere that
Speaker 1: you gave thank you notes to the crew. Is that true?
Speaker 1: It is? I'm yeah, no, I just I mean, first
Speaker 1: of all, they're all great people, Like you know, I
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting them not to be fine people, but I
Speaker 1: was really impressed by basically everyone there. And then it was,
Speaker 1: you know, it was such an intense experience and they
Speaker 1: were the only ones that were there with me through it,
Speaker 1: and like, there were definitely several occasions like that last
Speaker 1: one where they just said just the right thing at
Speaker 1: just the right time. That was really what I needed
Speaker 1: to hear. And I just felt like I had to
Speaker 1: like let them know how how much I appreciated them.
Speaker 1: That's Amy Schneider. If you're enjoying this conversation, and be
Speaker 1: sure to subscribe to Here's the Thing on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Amy Schneider shares her perspective on
Speaker 1: the rash of anti trans legislation on the rise across
Speaker 1: the country. I'm Dalia Schlanger and this is Here's the Thing.
Speaker 1: Jeopardy champion Amy Schneider's life has changed dramatically since her
Speaker 1: epic run on the show. Her social media following has exploded.
Speaker 1: She was honored with a special recognition at this year's
Speaker 1: GLAD Media Awards. She's even had a day named after
Speaker 1: her in Oakland, California. I wanted to know about the
Speaker 1: first moment when Schneider realized that she had become a
Speaker 1: public figure. I think maybe the first one. I was
Speaker 1: surprised by how fast like things took off, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, how many Twitter followers? Why is getting how
Speaker 1: many like interview request? I was getting that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But I had known something like that was going to happen,
Speaker 1: even if I didn't know the degree. But I think,
Speaker 1: you know, there are two things that really kind of
Speaker 1: made me realize, like, this isn't just a thing that's happening.
Speaker 1: This is a new phase of my life. I think
Speaker 1: the first one was I got robbed at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the year. UM. Didn't have anything to do with Jeopardy.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, I was I had bad luck
Speaker 1: on that and you know whatever, UM and I mentioned
Speaker 1: it on Twitter and then it was a news story
Speaker 1: and like people in my life found out about it
Speaker 1: because they had seen it in like their news feed
Speaker 1: and things like that, And that was really a moment
Speaker 1: of being like, okay, like I have a public life
Speaker 1: now and a and a personal life, and it's it's
Speaker 1: up to me to monitor where the boundaries between those are.
Speaker 1: And that's just going to be the case for who
Speaker 1: knows how long. So that was one moment, and then
Speaker 1: the other one was like, once my episode stopped airing,
Speaker 1: like I played, I put off a lot of things
Speaker 1: on the assumption that once my episode stopped airing, things
Speaker 1: would calm down and to have more free time. And
Speaker 1: then a week or two in I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: that not happen at all, and this is not going
Speaker 1: to stop, and yeah, I had to like just recalibrate
Speaker 1: my whole plans for you know, the next few months. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I think kind of the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: Like you quit your job, Yeah, yeah, I did. Was
Speaker 1: that our decision to make? No? Um, you know, I'd
Speaker 1: been struggling and with dissatisfaction of my career for a while.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, like a lot of people in COVID,
Speaker 1: it was just like is this really what I want
Speaker 1: to be doing with my life? And you know, just
Speaker 1: not feeling the fulfillment that I used to have, so
Speaker 1: you know, like this coming along, it was like I
Speaker 1: was thinking about doing it anyway, and having you know,
Speaker 1: a million dollars to cushion the financial blow like made
Speaker 1: it a lot easier. I had thought that I was
Speaker 1: going to hang in there for a few more months,
Speaker 1: like get some stock options to fast and some other
Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know, see if things were really
Speaker 1: going to be sustainable. But then it quickly became clear
Speaker 1: that they were, and like it was just like, this
Speaker 1: is foolish. I'm actually not doing any work. Like I
Speaker 1: had this realization I needed to write this like RFC
Speaker 1: about spec automation you know, whatever that means. And I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not going to do that. I just
Speaker 1: can't imagine myself doing that anymore. That's that's so uninteresting
Speaker 1: to me. And so yeah, I said, of meeting with
Speaker 1: my manager, and that was it. What's the dream now?
Speaker 1: You know a lot of people have been like suggesting
Speaker 1: a lot of things to me, but I think what
Speaker 1: I've kind of settled on is that I think my
Speaker 1: dream would be if somebody was to be describing Amy
Speaker 1: Schneider in a few years, that they would say she's
Speaker 1: a writer, and then maybe adding other things after that,
Speaker 1: maybe like you know, podcasting or like hosting a TV
Speaker 1: show or things like that. But I think that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I've written some essays that have been online.
Speaker 1: I've put together a book proposal, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: be trying to write a book. And I've really found
Speaker 1: that to be the most satisfying to do or even
Speaker 1: think about, of all the things that have come along.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I want to ask you about your life
Speaker 1: on online a little bit. I know your in person
Speaker 1: life has changed so much, but your life online as well.
Speaker 1: And I understand that Jeopardy like makes a recommendation to
Speaker 1: people to shut down their personal social media accounts before
Speaker 1: they're on the show. Can you tell me a little
Speaker 1: bit about that aspect of things and what it's been
Speaker 1: like for you. Yeah, I mean it's been interesting. I
Speaker 1: will say that before the episode started airing, Jeopardy put
Speaker 1: me in contact with Glad, who gave me, you know,
Speaker 1: a fair amount of like advice and like preparation and
Speaker 1: training for being a queer person in the public eye,
Speaker 1: which was super helpful. You know, it's been tough. Like
Speaker 1: I I used to be on Twitter a fair amount.
Speaker 1: I used to post a fair amount to my you know,
Speaker 1: three followers or whatever. And then I'd already kind of
Speaker 1: like stopped that during the pandemic because I just didn't
Speaker 1: feel like I had anything to say about, you know, COVID.
Speaker 1: It was always just so like off the cuff too,
Speaker 1: Like I would think of like a funny thing and
Speaker 1: like you know, spend twenty minutes like crafting it and
Speaker 1: like debating over commas and stuff, and then then throw
Speaker 1: it out there. But now, you know, I can't just
Speaker 1: like you know, take an edible and think of something
Speaker 1: funny and post it because like you know, it's going
Speaker 1: to be in the news, and I had need to
Speaker 1: be you know, more thoughtful about it, and so trying
Speaker 1: to find that balance of where's the like still like
Speaker 1: you know, casual and me and natural, while also being
Speaker 1: you know, thoughtful enough to not you know, do anything foolish,
Speaker 1: oh for sure. And also I mean, like you said
Speaker 1: that Jeopardy put you in touch with Glad to talk
Speaker 1: about being a queer person in the public eye. Do
Speaker 1: you feel like like having to deal with that side
Speaker 1: of things has politicized you more in your transness maybe
Speaker 1: then you felt as a private person. I actually I
Speaker 1: think that I've been very politicized as a trans person.
Speaker 1: That's something that I've been you know, intentionally de emphasizing
Speaker 1: in my social media and in my public presence because
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't want my Twitter feed
Speaker 1: to be a place where people are arguing all the time,
Speaker 1: and that's not, you know, my goal. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been interesting. It's certainly like hardened me and things that
Speaker 1: I already felt. And I guess it's made me think
Speaker 1: through more like my politics and my beliefs and things
Speaker 1: like that. It's really you know, because if I am
Speaker 1: going to address it, like I say, I need to
Speaker 1: do it now in a thoughtful way, and I need
Speaker 1: to really think about what will actually you know, persuade
Speaker 1: people and not just what will make me feel good.
Speaker 1: And so I've been That's something I've been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of thinking about, and it's something I do want
Speaker 1: to be, you know, I don't want to be an activist,
Speaker 1: you know, per se or things like that, but I
Speaker 1: do want to start like using that platform a bit
Speaker 1: more to advance the humanity of people like me. Do
Speaker 1: you have any advice for people listening about finding their
Speaker 1: own authenticity or about finding harmony within parts of themselves
Speaker 1: so that they can do their own form of what
Speaker 1: you've done. Yeah, I mean it's tough. It took me
Speaker 1: thirty some years, you know, it's it's it's certainly a
Speaker 1: difficult thing to do. But I think what I'd say
Speaker 1: that I've what I've learned from transitioning is that as
Speaker 1: you think about there's some part of yourself that you
Speaker 1: haven't been expressing, some part of yourself that you've been
Speaker 1: kind of ashamed of or just you know, wanting to conceal,
Speaker 1: not wanting to highlight. You are exaggerating your fears, and
Speaker 1: you're underestimating the benefits. Like, I'm confident of that it
Speaker 1: is not going to be as bad as you think.
Speaker 1: The negative things won't be as bad as you think
Speaker 1: they are, and the positives there's going to be positives
Speaker 1: to it that you were not even thinking of or expecting.
Speaker 1: Like I I really think that's true. That's so beautifully sad.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about what your life might have
Speaker 1: been like if you hadn't found the courage to make
Speaker 1: that transition, to take that leap. Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I lived it for a long time, and it was
Speaker 1: miserable in a way that I didn't know because that
Speaker 1: had always been with me, and so you know, you
Speaker 1: talk about courage and and there's a truth to that.
Speaker 1: But once I really like started to experience seeing myself
Speaker 1: as a woman, letting you know a few people close
Speaker 1: to me in my life see me that way, you know,
Speaker 1: acting that way with other people, it felt like there
Speaker 1: was no choice. It didn't feel like something that I
Speaker 1: was bravely deciding to do. It felt like something that
Speaker 1: was like happening to me, Like coming out was happening
Speaker 1: to me because I could not stay in the closet
Speaker 1: any longer. So yeah, that was my experience with it.
Speaker 1: So this spring, you went to the White House for
Speaker 1: Transgender Day of Visibility. Unbelievable. How did it feel to
Speaker 1: be there? Well, it's definitely one of the many, you know,
Speaker 1: mind blowing experiences I've had this year. A sort of
Speaker 1: surreal feeling, you know, just there. It is just like
Speaker 1: in the movies, you know, you're here at the White House.
Speaker 1: And it was also just really drove home for me
Speaker 1: how much things have changed in this country for trans
Speaker 1: people that you know, I would be invited by the
Speaker 1: White House and they would think it was good politics
Speaker 1: to do, so, you know, that was really neat So
Speaker 1: On the one hand, I mean, that's such a powerful
Speaker 1: thing to have a transferson be invited to the White
Speaker 1: House to mark this day and be so visible on
Speaker 1: Transgender Day of Visibility. And yet this year we've also
Speaker 1: heard so much noise in the media, so much anti
Speaker 1: trans legislation being brought forward, I think, more than any
Speaker 1: other year in history in two And I want to
Speaker 1: know what you think, Like, what's your perspective on where
Speaker 1: we're at right now? Those are two very a posing states.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean I think that fundamentally, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm really actually quite optimistic. And I don't want to
Speaker 1: undersell the sort of danger that trans people, in trans
Speaker 1: children in particular, are in right now. You know, the
Speaker 1: being denied gender affirming care is is will will some
Speaker 1: of them will die from that. It is life saving
Speaker 1: medical care for many people. And I know that that
Speaker 1: may be hard to understand if you, you know, are
Speaker 1: not trans yourself, but I can promise you that it's true.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I was talking with their
Speaker 1: friend the other day and they were saying how awful
Speaker 1: they feel for the kids that are going to be,
Speaker 1: you know, forced to stop their transition. And I was like, well, remember,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that long ago. There was no need to
Speaker 1: pass a law for that, because no kid would have
Speaker 1: been given that medical care in the first place. So
Speaker 1: when you think about it that way, it's really remarkable
Speaker 1: how far we've come, you know, not just over the
Speaker 1: course of my lifetime, but just in the last five
Speaker 1: ten years. And so this movement right now is a
Speaker 1: backlash against the progress that we've made, and it's a
Speaker 1: backlash that I think, quite frankly, has come too late.
Speaker 1: Too many people have already, you know, met trans people,
Speaker 1: come to understand trans people and understand that we have
Speaker 1: a right to live our lives in peace, and you know,
Speaker 1: those people aren't going to change their minds. So it's
Speaker 1: definitely scary right now, and people are going to get hurt.
Speaker 1: But I think that, you know, assuming that we continue
Speaker 1: to have a functioning democracy, you know, trans people are
Speaker 1: going to be okay in this country. That's a really
Speaker 1: valuable perspective to hear. I'm curious about how it affects
Speaker 1: you day to day to have so much discourse about
Speaker 1: trans rights in in the media. Are you able to
Speaker 1: compartmentalize or is it exhausting and disturbing a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, you know, I I mean I am able
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize. It's not like there wasn't always terrible news
Speaker 1: around if you were you know, kind of looking forward
Speaker 1: or just you know, on trans twitter as I was,
Speaker 1: you know, so kind of the flood of scary things
Speaker 1: has has been out there, you know, since I've come out,
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, it's just something you just sort
Speaker 1: of learned that, like, yeah, there's always a bad thing
Speaker 1: out there, but there's good stuff out there too, and
Speaker 1: it's not scary, so it doesn't you know, spread as
Speaker 1: much and it doesn't make headlines. But just all these
Speaker 1: little things like me being on Jeopardy, like trans people,
Speaker 1: you know, advancing in the military were always like moving
Speaker 1: forward and breaking new ground. Um, and we should be
Speaker 1: just as aware of that as we are about the
Speaker 1: scary things. Mm hmm. Those scary things are getting so
Speaker 1: much attention. These bills are being talked about so much,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if you think that they're truly reflective
Speaker 1: of the way that people feel or transphobia on a
Speaker 1: day to day, person to person level, or if this
Speaker 1: is a lot of political theater because people are so
Speaker 1: polarized around trans rights. I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: certainly political theater to a fair extent, but I think
Speaker 1: that you know, what I've learned being out in public
Speaker 1: and hearing so many stories of especially older people, seeing
Speaker 1: me on TV and kind of having that sort of
Speaker 1: the light dawns on them about trans people, and I
Speaker 1: just that so many people, you know, anybody who's like
Speaker 1: my age or older, grew up with the you know,
Speaker 1: most horrific demonizing stereotypes of trans people, you know from
Speaker 1: like Silence of the Lambs on and you know, if
Speaker 1: you've never had a reason to question that, you just
Speaker 1: sort of grew up believing what you believed. And so
Speaker 1: I think it's for so many people, it's not about
Speaker 1: I hate so much. It's just about discomfort and having
Speaker 1: to question something you thought you knew. But I find
Speaker 1: that that's pretty brittle, and once it breaks, people can
Speaker 1: pretty quickly understand that, yeah, those were just wrong what
Speaker 1: they grew up with, and trans people are fine. Amy.
Speaker 1: I hate asking somebody who has a personal stake in
Speaker 1: an issue like this what other people can do to help,
Speaker 1: but I am curious to know from your perspective, are
Speaker 1: there things that folks can do to combat this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, just the most important
Speaker 1: thing is too in your daily life, don't let it
Speaker 1: go unanswered. If you hear people saying hateful things and
Speaker 1: and be visible as somebody that is an ally of
Speaker 1: trans people and that that believes in their rights, it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to change the minds of the people
Speaker 1: that you're most frustrated with. But again, it's that thing
Speaker 1: where people grew up with the idea that everybody shared
Speaker 1: hateful beliefs about trans people, and so showing the people
Speaker 1: around you that people they know, people that are in
Speaker 1: their community, their workplace, their church, whatever it may be,
Speaker 1: don't share those hateful beliefs. Maybe that you know it'll
Speaker 1: make a few of them start to wonder and start
Speaker 1: the question and start to slowly change the minds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know when you accepted your glad a word, the
Speaker 1: sense that I got from what you said was that
Speaker 1: your work in advocacy was the thing that you're most
Speaker 1: proud of from your Jeopardy rent or not advocacy, but
Speaker 1: being a visible trans person and the way that that
Speaker 1: can change people's views. Yeah, you know, when I take
Speaker 1: my episodes and I knew it was going to be
Speaker 1: kind of a big deal and that my my trans
Speaker 1: nous was going to be a part of that. What
Speaker 1: I thought was going to happen was just at you know,
Speaker 1: it would become a talking point and people would just
Speaker 1: dig into their own trench positions and it wouldn't really
Speaker 1: have much of an effect. It would just be one
Speaker 1: more ground that people were fighting on, and that turned
Speaker 1: out not to be true. So that has been such
Speaker 1: a good feeling just to like, I've heard from so
Speaker 1: many trans people about the immediate difference that it made
Speaker 1: in their life, the specific ways that it was helpful
Speaker 1: to them, and you know, have such sympathy and connection
Speaker 1: for all the all the trans people in this country,
Speaker 1: and I want nothing but the best and happiness for
Speaker 1: all of them. And the fact that I was able
Speaker 1: to actually advance that cause was and remains just an
Speaker 1: incredible feeling. Yeah, and for young people too. I don't
Speaker 1: want to harp too much on this, but I just
Speaker 1: want to bring up one more point that I found
Speaker 1: really fascinating in the last six months or so, Like
Speaker 1: in the spring, the governor of Utah, Governor Cox, vetoed
Speaker 1: a bill that was trying to ban trans students from
Speaker 1: participating in sports that are consistent with their gender identity,
Speaker 1: and his his video is overridden, but when he was
Speaker 1: expressing his views, he talked about higher suicide rates among
Speaker 1: trans youth. But he also made a point that there
Speaker 1: were only four trans high school students that this bill
Speaker 1: was going to affect, right, and he said, rarely has
Speaker 1: so much fear and anger been directed at so few.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't even know what to make of that.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering what you what you make of that.
Speaker 1: It's so impactful for those four people, it's everything, it's
Speaker 1: it's their lives. Yeah, Yeah, indeed, I mean I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, the thing about sports, I think is is
Speaker 1: the most political theater of all of them. And it's
Speaker 1: because it's the most sort of appealing I guess, I
Speaker 1: would say argument and and in fact, I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's one of the few areas around trans
Speaker 1: people's place in society that I think there's some room
Speaker 1: for honest disagreement about. You know, I don't think that
Speaker 1: builds like those in Utah fall into the realm of
Speaker 1: honest disagreement or things like that. I think that again,
Speaker 1: these are kids they're playing sports to play sports and
Speaker 1: run around with their friends and compete and all this
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But you know, nobody should be taking
Speaker 1: it that seriously in general, and you know, in particular,
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be taking it so seriously that they're bringing
Speaker 1: the weight of the state down on these four kids.
Speaker 1: When you say honest disagreement, can you explain what you
Speaker 1: mean by that. I think I mean, like, at the
Speaker 1: very top levels of say track and field, is there
Speaker 1: an argument to be made about what is fair and
Speaker 1: what is not um you know, And I also think
Speaker 1: that it's also one of those things where it becomes
Speaker 1: incoherent because you know, some people are born with certain
Speaker 1: qualities that give them an advantage, and everybody that's at
Speaker 1: the top of their field in you know, swimming or
Speaker 1: track and field was born with a huge genetic advantage.
Speaker 1: And so what counts is fair and unfair is is
Speaker 1: a really hard line to draw. But I do think
Speaker 1: that that's something that people can make an argument about
Speaker 1: without actually feeling they're being unfair to trans people. But
Speaker 1: that's a very like narrow slice of the argument, and
Speaker 1: it's a very nuanced point and very different, as you say,
Speaker 1: than kids in high school who are exploring their athletic
Speaker 1: abilities and trying to be who they are in the world. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great point. Okay, let's talk about what's next
Speaker 1: for you. Everyone is very excited about the Tournament of
Speaker 1: Champions which you're competing in. I want to know how
Speaker 1: you prepared and whether it was different than the way
Speaker 1: that you prepared for the regular season of Jeopardy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I think it was different. To be honest,
Speaker 1: I didn't prepare as much. And the simple reason is
Speaker 1: that going into my original taping, my life was extremely boring.
Speaker 1: Um and my life has gotten much more interesting in
Speaker 1: the past year, and I just had a lot of
Speaker 1: things going on. I wanted to go to the Toronto
Speaker 1: Film Festival and other stuff like that, so I kept thinking, boy,
Speaker 1: I really need to get started studying. And then it
Speaker 1: was like a week before taping and I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: I need to get on this. So it was kind
Speaker 1: of a bit of a concentrated last week there. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I I've always felt like and
Speaker 1: I felt like this going to last time that fundamentally,
Speaker 1: you know what, you know, like the last minute cramming
Speaker 1: is probably not going to swing, you know, any particular games,
Speaker 1: so don't get too stressed about it. The main thing
Speaker 1: was that it was a different mental challenge this time around,
Speaker 1: partly because like, in a sense it was much lower
Speaker 1: stakes because I've already been successful Jeopardy, Like, whatever happens
Speaker 1: here is not going to change that. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, it was also you know, first of all,
Speaker 1: everybody telling me all year though you're gonna win, you're
Speaker 1: gonna crush it, all this sort of thing, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, these people are really good, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be completely different playing against other experienced players
Speaker 1: as opposed to you know, always two new people that
Speaker 1: are there for the first time. So really a lot
Speaker 1: of it was about trying to get back into the
Speaker 1: mindset I was last year, trying to remember how that felt,
Speaker 1: to really get focused on how what was going to
Speaker 1: come into my mind, what was going to be distracting,
Speaker 1: and how to how to avoid that. Who are you
Speaker 1: most nervous to face. I mean, you've got Matt Emmodio
Speaker 1: and Matteo Roach, both also super champions who won you know,
Speaker 1: long streaks of consecutive games. Yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: definitely Matt I think that, you know, if you look
Speaker 1: at the Jeopardy stat heads on Reddit or wherever, I
Speaker 1: think there's there's an argument to be made that that
Speaker 1: he would be considered the slight favorite over me. I
Speaker 1: also think that Andrew, he who was the person that
Speaker 1: I've beat in my first game, but quite honest, was
Speaker 1: lucky to do. So, you know, he really should have
Speaker 1: gotten that final Jeopardy. He'll he'll say so, and so
Speaker 1: I know that he can beat me, So he would
Speaker 1: make me nervous as well. Are you gonna have some
Speaker 1: watching parties for this tournament of champions? You need to
Speaker 1: celebrate with some friends. Yeah. Absolutely. We're just just yesterday
Speaker 1: putting together a trill aboard of who we want to invite. Nice, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we will all be rooting for you. I know
Speaker 1: I'll be rooting for you. And it's been such a
Speaker 1: pleasure to talk to you, Amy. Thank you, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you. Likewise my thanks to Amy Schneider. This episode
Speaker 1: was produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach McNeice, and Maureen Hobit.
Speaker 1: Our engineers for this episode are Frank Imperial and Brent Bodrick.
Speaker 1: Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Talia Schlanger.
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin will be back next week. Here's the thing
Speaker 1: is brought to you by iHeart Radio