1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. We've heard all week 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: about the Epstein files, so we thought we would go 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: to the guy who knows the most, his attorney, Alan Dershowitz. 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: He's been litigating and teaching and writing about law for 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: more than sixty years, but also served as Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer. 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: Mister Dershowitz, thank you so much for joining me today. 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: I want to talk about this because there's been so 9 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: much drama about this and I'm not a legal expert. 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: You obviously were on the case. I think there's a 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: lot that people don't understand about this. You've written an 12 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: op ed saying this isn't even up to the DOJ, 13 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: that the courts actually redacted these names and they can't 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: be released. 15 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: Well, two judges have redacted the names, largely to protect 16 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: the accusers, but also the accused. After all, if people 17 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 2: are accused, some of them are falsely accused, we have 18 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: to know everything possible about the accused. Give me an example. 19 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: A woman named Sarah Ranson, a CU wrote a whole 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: series of emails to The New York Post accusing Bill 21 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: Clinton and Hillary Clinton and Richard Branson of having pedophilic 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: sects with young people. She was then investigated. Ultimately, she 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: admitted to The New Yorker that she made up the 24 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 2: whole story. So you have a situation like that, you 25 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: can't just release the names of the accused. You have 26 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: to also release the information about the accusers so that 27 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: in the court of public opinion you can make a 28 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: judgment as to whether they're relevant. Not every accusation is true, 29 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: and not every accusation is false. You know, the Me 30 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: Too movement says, believe women, no, no, no, no. Investigate 31 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: every charge, but don't believe anybody because of their gender. 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: Many women tell the truth, some don't. Many men tell 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: the truth, some don't, and so we have to assess them. 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: So right now, what's being suppressed are the names of 35 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: some of the accused. I happen to know who they 36 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: are because I investigated the case. None of them are 37 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: public figures. None of them are people who are elected 38 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: office today. There are no smoking guns. But also what's 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 2: being suppressed are as negative information about the accusers because 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: they are deemed to be victims. Some of them are victims, 41 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: some of them are mixed victims and false accusers. It's 42 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: a very complex situation. 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: Well, so that's one of the things that Donald Trump, 44 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: the president, came out when they asked him a few 45 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: days ago about this. He came out and he said, look, 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: there's information out there that if it comes out and 47 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: these people are falsely accused, it ruins their life. Essentially, 48 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he said. And I think 49 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: this is something that's hard for people to understand because 50 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: not everybody is a legal expert. But you know how 51 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: social media goes when something like this happens, Suddenly everyone 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: is a legal expert. I want to be clear. Pedophiles 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: are considered so vile that even when the most heenous 54 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: murderer gets into prison with them, they kill them in prison. 55 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a serious accusation, and I have 56 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: respect for Pambondi and President Trump that they're not willing 57 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: to just put people's names out there and accuse them 58 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: of things that they haven't done. President Trump knows best 59 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: what this is like. 60 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, let's be very clear, not a 61 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: single person has ever been accused of being a pedophile 62 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 2: other than Jeffrey Epstein. Not a single person. Some people 63 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: were accused of having sex with twenty two year olds, 64 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: twenty three year olds, nineteen year olds. Nobody has ever 65 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 2: been accused of having sex with children, with young children, 66 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: and that's just false. 67 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: So from this case, you don't have any information that 68 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: got I know. 69 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: For sure that there's no accusation, no plausible, credible accusations 70 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 2: about that. The word is thrown around as if it 71 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: has a meaning, but it doesn't apply to a nineteen 72 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: year old or a twenty three year old or even 73 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: a seventeen year old. It applies to a twelve year 74 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: old or a thirteen year old or fourteen year old, 75 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: but those accusations are not there. So there's no pedophilia 76 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: involved here, and there's no trafficking. But he really believes 77 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 2: that Jeffrey Epstein was making money selling women to clients. No, 78 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: the accusation is that, you know, maybe he allowed one 79 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: of the people under his control to have sex with 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: Prince Andrew when she was nineteen or twenty years old, 81 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: for which he was paid fifteen thousand dollars. That's one 82 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: of the accusations. But let's not overstate them. And let's 83 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: also understand that there is a presumption of innocence in 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: the world. There is an FBI list. There is a 85 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: list of people that complaints were made about and those 86 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 2: names have been redacted. I know who they are. None 87 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: of them are people who are currently in office or 88 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: currently in the public. But there is such a list, 89 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: and the judges have done the redacting, and the judges 90 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: have supported the redacting, And if the media wants to 91 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: get those names, they ought to go to the judges 92 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 2: and make an application under the First Amendment to get 93 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 2: the names released. They'll be very dis pointed when they 94 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 2: see the names because they haven't heard of any of them. 95 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: They're just obscure people. 96 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: There's this thing considered the FBI vault where all of 97 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: and there's Epstein files in the vault that you can 98 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: go online and you can see those files and then 99 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: you can issue a FOYA and you can ask for 100 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: more files. Would that are those files there available to 101 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: the public, just redacted? And that's what the people are asking. 102 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: They want the actual names. 103 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think they're right. They should have the 104 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,679 Speaker 2: actual names. But if you redact the names, you also 105 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: have to redact the information about negative material about some 106 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 2: of the accusers so that the court of public opinion 107 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: can fairly judge whether these people were appropriately charged, accused 108 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: or not. None of them have been charged with any crimes, 109 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 2: and for good reason, because there doesn't seem to be 110 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 2: sufficient evidence to charge anybody with crimes. So I can't 111 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: fault BONDI I can't fault Trump. I can't fauilt this administration. 112 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: I don't think the administrations in any way responsible. Let 113 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: me also tell you I've gone through the records. There's 114 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: no allegation that Donald Trump did anything improper or that 115 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: Bill Clinton did anything proper. These are all speculations that 116 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: are not based on evidence. You know. The one thing 117 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: that conspiracy theorists hate are hard, tough facts or the 118 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: absence of facts, and that's what that's what destroys conspiracy theories. 119 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: So you don't believe that if these files were fully unredacted, 120 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: they were fully released to the public, that there would 121 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: be people that could be accused of crimes within those files. 122 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, they probably are some people who could be accused, 123 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 2: But whether they could be credibly accused, I don't know. No, 124 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: I don't think they can be accused of crimes because, 125 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: first of all, these are matters that took place in 126 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: two thousand and two thousand and one, two thousand and two, 127 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 2: twenty a quarter of a century ago, and some of 128 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 2: them resulted in civil law suits and settlements of cases. 129 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 2: But I'm not aware of anything that would result in 130 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: criminal prosecutions. And so I've been in favor of releasing 131 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: all the files from day one. From day one, I said, 132 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: I waive any privacy rights, any lawyer client rights, release everything. 133 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: Let the public judge based on full transparency. That's been 134 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: my position from day one. 135 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: So obviously, we saw over the weekend this event where 136 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: a lot of young conservatives gathered and there were accusations 137 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: from Tucker Carlson that the State of Israel was involved. 138 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: You've been very consistent in saying that is not true. 139 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: I know that for a fact for two reasons. One, 140 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: if Jeffrey Epstein had worked for any intelligence agency, the 141 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: first thing he would have done is told me that, 142 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: and told his other lawyers that, and asked us to 143 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: go to the government and get a deal, a better 144 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: deal for him. He didn't like the deal he got, 145 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: and that didn't happen. And that's one number Two. I 146 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: represented the Mozart I was their lawyer. Maybe I don't know. 147 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: Twenty years ago when Cyprus arrested five young Mozart agents, 148 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: and I pro bono represented them and helped them get out. So, 149 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 2: without disclosing specifics, I have very good sources in Israel, 150 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: and I can tell you from my sources there is 151 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: zero chance that Jeffrey Epstein ever had any connection with 152 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: the Mosad. The reason the story has taken on legs, 153 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: and the reason Tarker Carlson is making these claims, is 154 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 2: that Jeffrey Epstein's former girlfriend, Ghlaine Maxwell's father Robert Maxwell, 155 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: may very well have had connections to the Mozart but 156 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: not Jeffrey Epstein. 157 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: What is that with Gilaine Maxwell? Is there something that 158 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: she would come out and say. I know that she's 159 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: been saying, well, I want to be able to talk 160 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: or testify in front of Congress, and there's been some 161 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: discussion about that. What are your thoughts there? 162 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: I think she should if she knows much more than 163 00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: anybody else. She was the one who arranged flights every 164 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 2: time I was his lawyer. Every time I had to 165 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: fly down, she would arrange the flight, She would arrange 166 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: for me to stay in a hotel. She was his 167 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: basic organizer, and so she would know everything. And so 168 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: I think she ought to testify in front of Congress 169 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 2: and be given immunity. You know, she's in prison right now. 170 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: Is she someone that you think could be trusted? I mean, 171 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: this is. 172 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 2: Last she has evidence. I mean, don't trust anybody you 173 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: know trust would verify. But the point is, does she 174 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: have documentation or evidence. Does she have travel receipts, does 175 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 2: she have you know, other things physical evidence. For example, 176 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: there were claims that there are sex tapes involving Jeffrey 177 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 2: Epstein and the people to whom he lent the women. 178 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: There are no such sex tastes. There are, however, videotapes 179 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: that were taken by the police when there was a 180 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: robbery in Epstein's house and the Palm Beach police installed 181 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: a video camera in his public areas, in his living room, 182 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 2: and there are those videotapes. But I am not aware 183 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 2: of any sex tapes at all. 184 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 185 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So you've talked about these conspiracy theorists, 186 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: and that is one of the conspiracies, is that there 187 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: are hours and hours of videotape that he used as 188 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: leverage with these important politicians and celebrities. And Pam Bondi 189 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: when she first talked about this, she said, I have 190 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: these videotapes. I'm reviewing them. 191 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: Now. 192 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: You just said these were tapes that were in public 193 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: areas of his home. They weren't in private areas. He 194 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: wasn't using them as leverage. And there have been other 195 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: legal experts that have come out and said, I don't 196 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: know of many criminals that keep a record of their crimes. 197 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: Can you just again verify those videos are not of 198 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: people engaging in lud acts. 199 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: No, what happened is one of his employees stole some 200 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: money and stole a licensed gun, and he went to 201 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: the police, and the Palm Beach police installed the video 202 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: camera secretly in his living room. I was there. I 203 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: know exactly where the camera was, and it recorded people, 204 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: and ultimately the people who did the theft were caught 205 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: and fired. But I'm aware of no video cameras installed 206 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: in any bedrooms, or any tapes in anybody, or any 207 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: extortion that was used. You know, this is probably one 208 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: of the most fantasmo logical conspiracy theories ever. This just 209 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: just nothing to these claims. There's enough there in terms 210 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 2: of what Jeffrey Epstein did to make the public legitimately interested. 211 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: But he was not selling people to prominent people. He 212 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 2: was not taking videotapes. None of that is true. 213 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: It plays on every parent's worst fear, your daughter gets 214 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: pulled into this. So I think there's this fantasy around 215 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: that of gosh, we got to expose this. It also 216 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: brings in high powered politicians that just blows up the story. 217 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: But so my question to you, as a legal expert 218 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: is why doesn't Attorney General BONDI just come out and 219 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: say what you're saying right now? 220 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: Well, she should, and I think she will, and I 221 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: think she should also do one more thing, go to 222 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: the courts, go to these two federal judgments and say, look, 223 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: there's been all these accusations, let's clear the air. Let's 224 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: have transparency, produce everything, produce the names of those accused, 225 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 2: but also produce the information about the accusers so that 226 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: we can make a judgment as to whether the accusations 227 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: are true or false. Right now, No, there isn't enough 228 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: information to make that kind of judgment. That's just surmise 229 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: and speculation. We do have enough to conclude, beyond any doubt, 230 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 2: that he did not work for the CIA, for the 231 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 2: most sad for the shine for any intelligence agencies, that's 232 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: one hundred percent certain. The rest will become certain when 233 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 2: all the information comes out. But I have to tell 234 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: you people are going to be very disappointed because I 235 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 2: know the names of the people that have been redacted, 236 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 2: and there are names that are familiar to you or 237 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: anybody else. There are some, but there are people who 238 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: are now dead or retired, and we don't know whether 239 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: they're involved or not. 240 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: So it's not the smoking gun that people are saying 241 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: that it is. Give us a little legal lesson, because 242 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are just expecting that 243 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: once the Trump administration got into office that they would 244 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: start just spewing FBI crime files out to the public. 245 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: Is there a precedent for that? I mean, has that 246 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: ever been done before that you just start releasing files 247 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: like that? 248 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: No, but it should be done. I'd like to see 249 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: the files of the Robert Kennedy assassination, of the John 250 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 2: Kennedy assassination of Martin Luther King. You know, time passes 251 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: and history has its claim, so I understand the needs 252 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 2: sometimes to suppress material for the moment, but we're talking 253 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: about events that are and a half century ago in 254 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: cases of those assassinations, and in the Epstein case, the 255 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: events occurred a quarter of a century ago. So I 256 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: think the time has come for full, complete transparency and disclosure. 257 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned, I hereby waive any rights 258 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: of privacy or any rights of confidentiality. If there's anything 259 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: about me in there, turn it out. I want everybody 260 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: to see it, because I know that the record will 261 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: prove that all I did was service Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer 262 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 2: in a professional way, in the same way that John 263 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: Adams defended the people who committed the Boston massacre and 264 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 2: Abraham Lincoln defended people accused of serious crimes. That's what 265 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: lawyers do. We defend the most seriously accused criminals, and 266 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: we do it proudly and without any reservations. And I'm 267 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: eighty seven years old almost, but I'm going to continue 268 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: as long as I the Good Lord gives me energy 269 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: to represent people accused of crime, even if people don't 270 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: like it, and that makes me unpopular. That's the job 271 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,359 Speaker 2: of the lawyer, and it's essential under the Constitution. 272 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: I think that's key that you say that, because for 273 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: people that don't know there were conspiracy theories about you 274 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: out there too, and I know you came out and 275 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: defended yourself, and to me, it's very meaningful to have 276 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: you say release it all, I know what's in there, 277 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: because that should calm a lot of these people down. 278 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: Who gets the sensational information. 279 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: And in my case, the woman who accused me ultimately 280 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 2: admitted publicly in court documents that she may have confused 281 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: me and misidentified me with somebody else, and she dropped 282 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: all the suits, so you know, my name has been 283 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 2: completely totally cleared. I did nothing wrong. I've had sex 284 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: with other than my wife during the relevant period of time, 285 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: and so it resulted for me wanting everything out there 286 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: because if you have nothing to hide, you want everything 287 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: out there. Now, there are some people who do have 288 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 2: something to hide, and those are people who have gone 289 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: to court and sought to suppress some of the material, 290 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: and some of them have succeeded doing so. 291 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: So there are people that don't want that information out there. 292 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: And I want to be clear about what you said 293 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: it is. I mean a lot of people don't want 294 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: people to know that they've been sleeping around outside of 295 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: their marriage and things like that. But what you're talking 296 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: about there are no twelve year old's, fifteen year old, 297 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: sixteen year olds in this case. 298 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: Not only that, but there are no well known people 299 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: in this case. The one thing I'm thinking of right 300 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: now involves a book that was written and the name 301 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 2: was redacted by the court, and everybody be interested in 302 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: knowing who he is. I know who it is, and 303 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: it's somebody nobody's ever heard of, so they would not 304 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: be interested in that. But the court has protected this 305 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: person because the court is uncertain that he's guilty, and 306 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: they don't want to produce the information about the accuser 307 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 2: because the accuser was also an alleged victim. So it's complicated. 308 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 2: But this is not something with as any fault on 309 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: the part of Pam Bondi, or on the part of 310 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 2: Donald Trump, or on the part of anybody in the administration. 311 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: This is the responsibility of courts, and they have exercised 312 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: their responsibility by not only keeping out the names of 313 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 2: some people who are accused, but also information about the accusers. 314 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 2: And I think the time has come now probably to disclose. 315 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: Everything, and that is up to these judges. I just 316 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: want to reiterate that, and what a devastating situation for 317 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: so many good things to be coming out of this administration. 318 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: Right now, they're talking about cutting more waste, more financial 319 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: waste in the government, and here we have even people 320 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: on our side that are going after our side and 321 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 1: saying this is what we wanted. I think this is 322 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: so interesting because I'm now hearing this is not pedophilia. 323 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: These are not crimes that what the person who committed 324 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: the crime is serving the time or served the time. 325 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: You also say that you don't believe that there was 326 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: any funny business involved in his suicide outside of somebody 327 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: maybe helping him within the prison. So you think that 328 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: could have happened. 329 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 2: Well, I'm fairly sure that he could not have committed 330 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 2: suicide if all the rules have been followed, video cameras, 331 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: his cellmate remaining there, the guards on duty. There's something 332 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: something very very questionable about that. And my own suspicion 333 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: he wasn't his lawyer at the time, so I don't 334 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 2: have any first rate information, but my own suspicion is 335 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: that he paid off guards to allow him to commit suicide, 336 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 2: and some of the guards have been fired, so there's 337 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 2: some cooperation to that. 338 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: How long was his prison sentence, Well. 339 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: Remember he served as prison sentence. It was eighteen months. 340 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: That was back in the first decade of the twenty 341 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 2: first century. He hadn't been sentenced, he hadn't been convicted. 342 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: When he killed himself, he was seeking bail and that's 343 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 2: the only suspicious thing about it. He had a good 344 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 2: chance of getting bail, and that's why. I don't know 345 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: why he would have killed himself at that point in time, 346 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 2: but the evidence strongly suggests that he did. Look, there's 347 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: one great forensic pathologist who has said, Michael Biden, that 348 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 2: maybe he didn't commit suicide. I have no special knowledge 349 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: of that. I do have very special knowledge about the 350 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 2: absence of a list, very special knowledge about no Mosad, 351 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 2: But I have no special knowledge about the suicide. 352 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that will always there always is a 353 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: little suspicion around a suicide. But I think anybody who 354 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: knows someone who has committed suicide, there's always those questions 355 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: of why would you do it? I mean, no one 356 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: can really understand what goes on in the mind of 357 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: somebody who decides to take their own life. 358 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 2: Well, except that Jeffrey Epstein was used to living a 359 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 2: life of luxury. He had airplanes and mansions and the 360 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: idea of him having to spend the rest of his 361 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: life in rat infested jails and prisons is something that 362 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: I can understand him not wanting to do. I understand 363 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 2: as the timing of why he didn't wait to see 364 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: whether he got bail or not before he made the 365 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 2: final decision, irreficable decision to kill himself. That's the only 366 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: question that reminds in my mind. But I want to 367 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 2: make sure I limit myself to what I know for 368 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 2: absolute certainty, no mosad, no cia, relative certainty, no people 369 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: involved who we know about, no crimes, and then the 370 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: rest is speculation. Did he kill himself or whether are 371 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: the circumstances? So I want to distinguish those factors. 372 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 373 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. So I'll ask you one more 374 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: thing that you may not know anything about. But there 375 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: is obviously the question of was there a true love 376 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: story between he and Gallaine or was this just business? 377 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: Oh? No, it was a love story. I saw them together, 378 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 2: but it ended. It ended, and they remain friends and 379 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 2: close associates. And I think vary it to give her 380 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: immunity and let her tell the whole story. Because she knows, 381 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: probably more than any living human being, the whole story. 382 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 2: And I have to tell you, when the whole story 383 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: comes out, a lot of it will be hu hum, 384 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 2: A lot of it will be boring, boring, boring. This 385 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 2: is not the Bouditti case. This is not some of 386 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,479 Speaker 2: these other cases. This is a case of one man 387 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: who had perverted sex with some people who are underage, 388 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: many people who are not underage. There was no big 389 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: trafficking or big conspiracy. But I think Glaine Maxwell, if 390 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: she's given immunity, could testify and disclose more than any 391 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,959 Speaker 2: other human being what really went on. 392 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,360 Speaker 1: Her team is now saying, since this has come up 393 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: and the administration is saying there's nothing to release, that 394 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: she should be released from jail. What's your opinion of that. 395 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: I think she's gotten a sentence that's far too long 396 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: for what was alleged. She did think it would be 397 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 2: the right thing to do to commuter sentence to time 398 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: served and let her testify and let her provide transparency 399 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 2: and all the evidence. I think that would be a 400 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 2: good final ending. Look. If Jeffrey Epstein hadn't committed suicide, 401 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: she never would have been prosecuted and certainly never would 402 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 2: have gotten this twenty year sentence that she got. She 403 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 2: is serving his sentence. Basically, she is a surrogate for him, 404 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: and that's just not fair to her. 405 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: Wow. Interesting, I guess that's a perspective we've never really heard. 406 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: I do think that it's been so sensationalized that people 407 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: haven't dug deep into the actual facts of the case. 408 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: So I appreciate you being here today to talk to 409 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: us about it and tell us things that we didn't know. 410 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: Happy to do it. I'm always interested in helping to 411 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 2: create transparency and truth. That's what the American public is 412 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: entitled to. 413 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: Well, speaking of that, I want you to talk a 414 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: little bit about your book, because we talked about it 415 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: the last time you were on here, But just tell 416 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: people where they can get it. It's called the Preventatives Date, 417 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: the challenge of preventing serious harms while preserving essential liberties. 418 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: Well, it's all about what's going on today in the world. 419 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 2: It's about deportation, it's about terrorism. It's about what the 420 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: United States did and the bombing of the Iranian nuclear reactors. 421 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 2: It's about when a government takes action not in response 422 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 2: but in anticipation of harms, and it tries to balance 423 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: the need to take preventive action against the need to 424 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: prevent violations of civil liberties. And you can get it 425 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 2: at Amazon dot com. The New York Times has canceled it. 426 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: They won't review it. They've reviewed Oh my book. 427 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: Are you serious? I didn't know that. 428 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, they won't review it. And they reviewed every 429 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 2: one of my books pretty much before I defended Donald Trump. 430 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 2: But as soon as I've defended Donald Trump, the New 431 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: York Times canceled me. Harvard Club of New York had 432 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: invited me to give a speech about the preventive state, 433 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 2: and then some people complained because I had defended Donald Trump. 434 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: So the part for the Harvard a Club canceled me. 435 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 2: The ninety second Street why I canceled me. So if 436 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: you want to fight back against this kind of cancelation, 437 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: go to Amazon. By the book. I think you'll enjoy it. 438 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: You will enjoy it. I read it. It is like 439 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: I said the last time you're on it's essential for 440 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: anybody who is in office or running for office. But 441 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this podcast, I know you're interested 442 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: in politics. It'll tell you so much and it'll just 443 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: make you more intelligent love. I love anything you put out. 444 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: I follow you. I think that you've been You've gone 445 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: from being a Democrat to being out there and speaking 446 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: on both sides. And I appreciate someone who's just willing, 447 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: like you said, to be transparent and expose the truth. 448 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: More than No longer a Democrat, I am now going 449 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: to be working very hard to make sure the Democrats 450 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: do not regain the House of Representatives. I do not 451 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 2: want to see a Ways in positions of authority. I 452 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 2: don't want to see Mondami, I don't want to see 453 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders. These are people who endanger America. And so 454 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 2: I'm no longer I'm not a Republican, but I'm anti 455 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party as it exists now. I quote Ronald Reagan, 456 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: I didn't leave the Democratic Party that left. 457 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: Me the mom Donnie thing being in DC. Rokhanna came 458 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: out of the meeting with him and said, I've been enlightened. 459 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: I think he's very interesting. Even Debbie Dingle out of 460 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: Michigan is giving him accolades. She prides herself on being 461 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 1: a moderate. This guy is. I think the President's right 462 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: when he says he's a communist. The answers that he 463 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: has to things. They're not socialism. They go straight to communism. 464 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: When you say sees the means of production, that's communism. 465 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: Well, you know, whatever label you put it. He's very, very, 466 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 2: very dangerous to New York. He will destroy the city. 467 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 2: He's dangerous to the Jewish community. You know, he has 468 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 2: admitted that globalized the defot I means different things to 469 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 2: different people. That basically admits that to some people it 470 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: means killed the Jews. And he was prepared to support that. 471 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: He now says he doesn't support it. I don't trust him, 472 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 2: so I'm going to do everything in my power to 473 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: see him defeated. But right now, the polls show that 474 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 2: it looks like he will be the next mayor of 475 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: New York, and that will be a terrible, terrible thing 476 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: for New York. When you think about some of the 477 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 2: people who have been mayors of New York, some of 478 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: the great people who have been mayors of New York. 479 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 2: But he would be just awful for the city, awful 480 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 2: for the country, and offen for world peace. So I'm 481 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: completely in, totally against him. 482 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: One of the most important cities in the world, probably 483 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: the most important financial city, in the world, and obviously 484 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: we are on your side and we'll be watching it 485 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: as well. Alan Dershowitz, thank you so much for joining 486 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: me today. 487 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on your wonderful podcast. I enjoy 488 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 2: very much watching it. 489 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, and thank you all for joining us as 490 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: well on the Tutor Dixon podcast. For this episode and others, 491 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,400 Speaker 1: go to Tutor Dixon podcast dot com, the iHeartRadio app, 492 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and check 493 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: out the full video on Rumble at Tutor Dixon and 494 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: join us next time. Have a blessed day.