WEBVTT - The Truth About Seed Oils and Ultra-Processed Foods

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and

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<v Speaker 2>Tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 3>Americans get more than half of their daily calories from

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<v Speaker 3>ultraprocessed foods with salty sugary items. More than half. This

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<v Speaker 3>is according to a government study that was released back

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<v Speaker 3>in August. This government study ran from two thousand and

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<v Speaker 3>one twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three, and it

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<v Speaker 3>said that about sixty two percent of childhood diets come

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<v Speaker 3>from highly processed foods think burgers, pastries, snacks, and pizza.

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<v Speaker 3>This according to the US Centers for Disease Control and

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<v Speaker 3>Preventions Nutrition study. The same foods have a similar grip

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<v Speaker 3>on adults, making up about fifty three percent of the

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<v Speaker 3>calories that they consumed.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. The question I have is whether or not Health

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<v Speaker 3>and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy can actually make

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<v Speaker 3>some headway on this. He said that the US food

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<v Speaker 3>supply is poisoning children. It's a question that I'll post to.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Julia Wolfson, Associate of US ARE in the International

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<v Speaker 3>Health Department at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School, of Public Health.

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<v Speaker 3>The research focuses on how ultra process food affects our

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<v Speaker 3>bodies the John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health that

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<v Speaker 3>is supported by Michael Our Bloomberg, founder and majority owner

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<v Speaker 3>of Bloomberg LP, parent company of Bloomberg TV and Radio.

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<v Speaker 3>Doctor Wilson, good to have you back with us. It's

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<v Speaker 3>been about a year since we last spoke. I just

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<v Speaker 3>want to start with the definition of ultra process foods.

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<v Speaker 3>I was kind of surprised to see pizza and burgers

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<v Speaker 3>on that list. How do you define it?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so thanks for having me back.

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<v Speaker 5>And ultra process foods are defined by the list of

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<v Speaker 5>ingredients that are included in them. So these are foods

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<v Speaker 5>and beverages that are industrial produced using processes that you

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<v Speaker 5>wouldn't have in a home kitchen and ingredients that you

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<v Speaker 5>also wouldn't have in a home kitchen. So these are

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<v Speaker 5>industrial produced products used by processing techniques like extrusion fractioning,

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<v Speaker 5>where you break down the pieces of the food into

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<v Speaker 5>different things and then put it back together again. And

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<v Speaker 5>they contain things like additives, emulsifiers, sweeteners, thickeners, artificial flavors

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<v Speaker 5>and colorings, and other kinds of substances again that you wouldn't.

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<v Speaker 4>Use in a home kitchen.

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<v Speaker 5>And so the most common definition we have is called

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<v Speaker 5>the Nova classification system, which actually uses the ingredient list

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<v Speaker 5>on a product to look for these kinds of ingredients

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<v Speaker 5>that signal that a food or beverage has been through

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<v Speaker 5>this industrial processed thing.

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<v Speaker 1>So if we turn around, which I think increasingly we

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<v Speaker 1>have a population that is doing that, and especially I've

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<v Speaker 1>got a daughter who's twenty two, younger generation looking at stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>But if there are a ton of ingredients and ingredients

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<v Speaker 1>you don't understand.

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<v Speaker 2>Should you assume that that's ultra processed.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that is what we recommend as the way to

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<v Speaker 5>know if a food or beverage you're considering purchasing or

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<v Speaker 5>eating is ultra processed.

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<v Speaker 4>You flip over that package and if you look at

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<v Speaker 4>that ingredient.

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<v Speaker 5>List and you see even one but certainly a bunch

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<v Speaker 5>of ingredients where you think, I don't know what that is.

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<v Speaker 5>That's not something I would cook with. I don't even

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<v Speaker 5>know how to pronounce that. That's a signal that's an

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<v Speaker 5>ultraprocessed food.

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<v Speaker 1>So do we fix it by just infusing everything with protein?

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<v Speaker 1>And then it's all Okay, so.

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<v Speaker 3>It's still ultra processed, like like even a.

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<v Speaker 2>Protein Are you picking on the pop tart?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, protein pack a cop tart. We talked about this

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<v Speaker 3>on our editorial call this morning. Sounds great, protein, doctor,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna let you weigh in.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So I mean thinking about what our That's a

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<v Speaker 5>strategy the food industry uses maybe to signal that something

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<v Speaker 5>is healthier for us by you know, saying, oh, this

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<v Speaker 5>is protein rich or whole grain rich, or this has

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<v Speaker 5>vitamins or minerals, right, But if it still has these

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<v Speaker 5>other ingredients, it's still an ultraprocessed food. And so you know,

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<v Speaker 5>the addition of you know, other nutrients that we might

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<v Speaker 5>think are beneficial does not change that food into something

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<v Speaker 5>that is not an ultra processed food.

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<v Speaker 4>It's still ultra process.

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<v Speaker 3>So just really shocking to see sixty two percent of

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<v Speaker 3>childhood diets come from highly processed foods. That was wild

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<v Speaker 3>to see. But at the same time, I'm thinking about

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<v Speaker 3>my own family and how difficult it is to get

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<v Speaker 3>my kids who are six and two to eat food

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<v Speaker 3>that we would consider not ultra processed. What is the

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<v Speaker 3>best way to do that? What are strategies that work

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<v Speaker 3>for kids. I think a lot of parents struggle with this.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean, I think it's a struggle for all

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<v Speaker 5>of us, right, you know, it's not just kids, it's

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<v Speaker 5>adults as well.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's over half of adult diets.

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<v Speaker 5>And I think there's a lot of reasons for that,

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<v Speaker 5>and it's you know, our taste preferences are shaped very early,

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<v Speaker 5>and there's a lot of marketing, particularly the children, for

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<v Speaker 5>these products.

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<v Speaker 4>And they're easier to they're easier to grab and go.

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<v Speaker 5>There a lot of them are ready to eat, and

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<v Speaker 5>you know, they're snacks. They save time, and a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of them are more affordable too, so that's something to consider.

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<v Speaker 5>I think it is the more snacks that you can

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<v Speaker 5>have out that are not processed, that.

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<v Speaker 4>Are easy to grab and go.

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<v Speaker 5>That is one strategy to help kids have more say

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<v Speaker 5>fresh fruits and vegetables to snack on, or healthy snacks

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<v Speaker 5>that are made ahead so that they can reach for easily.

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<v Speaker 5>But again that is extra work for parents and sometimes

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<v Speaker 5>extra cost for parents as well. So there are really

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<v Speaker 5>good and intractable reasons why these foods comprise so much

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<v Speaker 5>of our diets, and particularly our children's diets.

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<v Speaker 1>We're talking with doctor Julia Wolfson, Associate Professor, International Health

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<v Speaker 1>Department at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to come back to her in just a moment.

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<v Speaker 1>The headline crossing the Bloomberg Terminal coming from the Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister of Hungary, Victor Orban, who has been meeting with

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<v Speaker 1>President Trump at the White House, and the Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 1>of Hungary saying that Hungary wins US sanctions exemption on

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<v Speaker 1>Russian energy. And we know that there have been some

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<v Speaker 1>stiff sanctions against Russian energy as a result of the

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<v Speaker 1>Russian invasion and war against Hungary, so it looks like

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<v Speaker 1>Hungary getting an exemption there.

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<v Speaker 3>Earlier, our team reported that President Trump signaled an openness

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<v Speaker 3>to exempting Hungary from sanctions on purchases of Russian energy

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<v Speaker 3>as he hosted Prime Minister Victor Orbin.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, so let's get back to a guest talking

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<v Speaker 1>with doctor Julia Wolfson, Associate professor over at the Johns

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<v Speaker 1>Hopkins Bloomberg School of pub Public Health. Excuse me, she's

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<v Speaker 1>in the International Health department. So you know what's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>The stat that Tim mentioned from the US Centers for

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<v Speaker 1>Disease Control and Prevention, their nutrition survey, when they talked

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<v Speaker 1>about highly processed food, they said pizza.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is not the pizza that you get and

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<v Speaker 3>I get on Friday nights.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what I want to ask you.

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<v Speaker 1>So, like, I go to a place where I know

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<v Speaker 1>they are making their homemade crust from special.

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<v Speaker 3>Weed and featured in the New York Times, you know, and.

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<v Speaker 2>It's no, no, no, I hear, you're having fun.

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<v Speaker 1>But but I mean it's like, you know, fresh tomatoes,

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<v Speaker 1>fresh basil. I guess maybe there's obviously some like homemade cheese,

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<v Speaker 1>but like what, like, how do we distinguish really really

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<v Speaker 1>bad processed food versus stuff that maybe isn't so bad.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I think that you know, that kind of pizza

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<v Speaker 5>that you're describing, or let's think about bread, even pizza

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<v Speaker 5>or bread that might make at home, Like you're combining

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<v Speaker 5>wheat and you know, flour and salt and yeast, and

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<v Speaker 5>you know you have your fresh tomato sauce.

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<v Speaker 4>That's not an ultraprocessed food.

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<v Speaker 5>So that but that is not the majority of the

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<v Speaker 5>pizza that people are eating. So when we talk about

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<v Speaker 5>things like pizza, it really could be those frozen pizzas

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<v Speaker 5>that you get in the grocery store or maybe more

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<v Speaker 5>mass produced pizzas that are made at scale and therefore

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<v Speaker 5>have some sorts of preservatives or other kinds of ingredients

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<v Speaker 5>that you know, change the say, the softness of the

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<v Speaker 5>dough or something like that.

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<v Speaker 4>Those are the ultra process things.

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<v Speaker 5>So not all ultra processed foods, though, are equally concerning.

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<v Speaker 5>I would say, you know, I mentioned bread, So you know,

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<v Speaker 5>the bread that we might make by ourselves at home,

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<v Speaker 5>like if we were some of the people who started

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<v Speaker 5>making sour oat bread during COVID, for example, Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 5>not ut processed.

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<v Speaker 4>Bread you might get at the bakery in.

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<v Speaker 5>Your neighborhood that is made by scratch is not ultra processed.

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<v Speaker 5>But most of the bread that we see on our

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<v Speaker 5>supermarket shelves is ultra process that sliced bread that you

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<v Speaker 5>see and so, but that includes even whole wheat bread.

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<v Speaker 5>So you know, there are some ultraprocessed products that are

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<v Speaker 5>by definition ultra process because they might contain right thoselifuyers

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<v Speaker 5>or things that turn them into that product, but they

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<v Speaker 5>might still be some are less of a concern than others.

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<v Speaker 3>I would say, So, just in the last two minutes

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<v Speaker 3>that we have with you, that health and even service.

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<v Speaker 3>As Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Junior has vowed to go

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<v Speaker 3>after these food companies so Americans do eat healthier. Thus far,

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<v Speaker 3>how is he doing well?

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<v Speaker 5>I mean, I think it's good that he's focusing on

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<v Speaker 5>this as an issue. I think there are, as I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, there's a lot of reasons why we eat

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<v Speaker 5>these foods, and one of them, a big one is

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<v Speaker 5>they're more affordable. They tend to be more affordable than

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<v Speaker 5>scratch ingredients. They save time, and they're more accessible.

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<v Speaker 4>And so.

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<v Speaker 5>I think some of the policies of the administration, say

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<v Speaker 5>cutting or even eliminating snap benefits is not helpful for

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<v Speaker 5>people to be able to avoid ultraprocessed foods. But thinking

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<v Speaker 5>about labeling or getting ultra process foods out of schools

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<v Speaker 5>in a way that also balances with giving schools the

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<v Speaker 5>resources they need to source and prepare less processed foods

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<v Speaker 5>would be a step in the right direction.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do we just real quickly thirty forty seconds here,

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<v Speaker 1>why do we have so much ultraprocessed food? Is it

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<v Speaker 1>about keeping shelf life or like what is it? Or

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<v Speaker 1>is it just cheaper mass production food?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, just quickly.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>I mean it's the majority of the foods in our

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<v Speaker 5>grocery store shelves, right. They make foods more shelf stable,

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<v Speaker 5>they are oftentimes more affordable, and they're in high demand

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<v Speaker 5>because they save people time and they save people.

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<v Speaker 4>Mental energy as well.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, it's a lot easier to say, have a

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<v Speaker 5>frozen dinner than it is to make all the components

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<v Speaker 5>of the frozen dinner yourself.

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<v Speaker 4>So there's demand for it.

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<v Speaker 5>And you know, they've really dominated our food supply for

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<v Speaker 5>decades now, so it will be really difficult to make

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<v Speaker 5>that switch at a large scale, but it's worth considering

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<v Speaker 5>how we can do it. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Last quick question twenty five seconds. Can we eat too

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<v Speaker 2>much protein?

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<v Speaker 5>I think it is possible to eat too much protein,

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<v Speaker 5>and Americans do eat a lot of protein, so we

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<v Speaker 5>are not suffering from a shortage of protein in the

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<v Speaker 5>US as a whole.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what my dad, O Bettie said, Everything in moderation, like,

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<v Speaker 1>it's pretty logical. Just do that. What.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, even ultra process foods, even French fries, yes, no, no,

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<v Speaker 3>not processed.

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<v Speaker 5>No.

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Julia Wilson so appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Associate Professor in the International Health Department at the Johns

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<v Speaker 1>Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

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<v Speaker 4>This is boombrang