1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: Radio. Radio Radio a myth and Bullshit, a radio phonic 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: novella Look at Radio, hosted by Malamunos. Welcome back to 3 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: look at That a Radio. Welcome back everybody. We're here. 4 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: This is and this is Malamus. This is another installation 5 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: installment of Brown Girl Our Yes, and if you're tuning 6 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: in for the first time or if you're a regular listener, 7 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: just to remind you all, look at That a Radio 8 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: is where we celebrate the brilliance, legacies and geniuses of 9 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: women and fems of color. Yes, this is the space 10 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: where we talk about fem feminine woman of color, creativity, innovation. 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: And today we're actually gonna be making some announcements. We 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: have a very special guests on the show today and 13 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: this Cupalo. We're so excited to introduce you to her. 14 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: She's fab and we're going to revisit our first copy delo, 15 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: which is Loca Epistemology. Right. But before we get to that, Um, 16 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: we're actually recording at Espasi. Yes we are so. Espasio 17 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: is a community space, art space boutique in Highland Park. 18 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Oh my god, no, boil her, what's in in boil hides? 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: Thinking about Vida? Sorry? Um in boil hids, it's on 20 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: first streets and what else. Well, we have had some 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: really exciting experiences recently as as a podcast, Yes we have. Um, 22 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: we were fortunate to be invited by our good friends, 23 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: good friends Silky to speak at her Chicano Studies Chicana 24 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: Artivism class at u c l A. Yeah, it was amazing. 25 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: We did a presentation on the podcast on local radio 26 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: and our Radiophonic novella and we discussed, um, what it 27 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: what it means to reimagine what a novella is? Right, 28 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: so we were working with or we did our presentation 29 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: with freshman students. Yes, and it's an artivism class. So 30 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: Silky the she's a professor, she's in what her fifth year, 31 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: she's a PhD candidate, HD candidate, but she also teaches 32 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: and um, she was talking to us about the curriculum 33 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: of this class and how it has a lot to 34 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: do with the way that art is used as resistance 35 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: but also with healings in different che Connects movements. Before 36 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: we spoke to her class, we basically just gave an 37 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: overview of the podcast what is a Radio Phonic Novella? 38 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: And she had shown like a film that she herself 39 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: had filmed and directed, so she's awesome. Thank you, Silkie 40 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: and all the students. Yeah, it was really great because 41 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: for our final activity that we did with them, so 42 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be just a lecture, we actually had them 43 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: create have work in twos, their work in pairs, and 44 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: then have them create their own podcasts. Yes, and some 45 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: of my favorites. One of them was like two a 46 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: PI women and they titled their podcast it would be 47 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: Pani Bitches. Yes. They were so cute. And then there 48 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: was like Brown Bitches. It was really great, and then 49 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: there was one that was they said that they would 50 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: call there's p w I right, and they would go 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: around and basically collect stories from people of color about 52 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: their experiences that are predominantly white institution and speaking of 53 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: a p w I yes, which has Yeah, this is 54 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: a good transition. So we have a guest is Kayla 55 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: Kayla four e M I know us, Yes, And we 56 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: met at a p w I Yes at tubs in Boston. 57 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: At Tubs in Boston and m Kayla does a lot. 58 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna let go ahead and tell our listeners 59 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: who you are, what you've been up to, and you know, 60 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: like give them some insight into your work. Yeah, so 61 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: I'm Kayla Group in California. My family is Colombia from Khali, 62 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: and my mom's side is African American from the South Virginia. UM. 63 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: And so for me, I studied International Nations at TOUGHS 64 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: and then after that I went and started living and 65 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: working in Ghana, where I worked with an ethical fashion 66 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: and brand called Studio one nine. It's co founded by 67 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: actress Rosario Dassent and yes, who's a former um A 68 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: brand exact for Patago Vanetta and like Gucci and things 69 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: like that. So the two of them have been best 70 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: friends since high school and they both are very very 71 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: passionate about, you know, giving back to the community but 72 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: then also creating jobs and supporting women. And so they 73 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: kind of used their expertise to create this platform using 74 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 1: the arts in fashion UM in Ghana, and so I 75 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: worked directly with the artisans. UM. Yeah, it's beautiful, It's amazing. 76 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: And how did you get started with Studio one eight nine? Like? What? 77 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: Because you know, um, I feel like you know, I'm 78 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: tough studying college. You were studying international relation, right. Klo's 79 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: was also a competitive speed skater, like the list just 80 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: goes on on, you know, but how did you find 81 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: yourself working with Rosario, working in Ghana, working in fashion? Yeah, 82 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: so I guess after graduating, I felt like I was 83 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: learning so much about economies and cultures and like a 84 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: very macro level, big scale, and I was really interested 85 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: in being on the ground. And I was kind of 86 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: tired of like think tanks all that more corporate, you know, environment, 87 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: and I kind of wanted to do something that was 88 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: a little bit more creative and maybe a little bit 89 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: more innovative and its approach. Um. And so I went 90 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: to Ghana right after you're graduating. And my aunt, actually 91 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: my mom's sister, she works in AID, like more traditional aid, 92 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: and so she was stationed in Ghana. So for me, 93 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: it was a really nice transition because I had somebody 94 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: who was there who was really familiar with the culture, 95 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: who had lived who knew me growing up, you know. 96 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: But then also um could kind of help me get settled. 97 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: And so while I was there, I found out about 98 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: Studio and actually through Instagram, of course. Instagram, you know, 99 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: it just makes all the connections happen. So yes, and 100 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: shout out to the urban bush babes, t K Wonder Cypriana. 101 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: They have this amazing blog. They have natural hair, they 102 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: highlight fashion. It's a platform also for women of color. Um. 103 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: And so I was following them. Was really into fashion 104 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: in general and African fashions and making my own things 105 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: while I was, you know, first months in Ghana, and 106 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: I saw them post about Rosario and Arima and studio 107 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, that's a really great way to 108 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: kind of tie all my interest together about you know, 109 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: businesses and development, but then also kind of this creative side. 110 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: And so I just kind of emailed them from there. 111 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: And so you live in Akron, right, so can you 112 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your experience living there? How 113 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: long have you been there? It's been almost two years 114 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: or so. Across is really wonderful. I think at first 115 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: it takes a little bit of patience. Things don't run 116 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: the same way they're here. I have to be aware 117 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: that you're in a completely different environment. Um. But at 118 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: the same time, people are very warm, they're very friendly, 119 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: they want to know your story. Um. And so I 120 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: just found that it was really easy to kind of 121 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: adapt into that culture because it was just so welcoming. 122 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: And how has that experience been for you as and 123 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: maybe we'll get into this when when we start talking 124 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: about the logopistemologies. Right, But you know you mentioned the 125 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: blog and you are logging now too. Yes, you want 126 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: to talk about fashion, traveling, being in Ghana and how 127 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: all of that has fit in together for you. Yeah. 128 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: So I have a blog called the Hindu Experiences. It's 129 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: a bilingual blog. It's in Spanish and English. I talked 130 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: about my experiences and after Latina in Ghana because I 131 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: found that in my family everyone was always asking me 132 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: about Ghana. They're like, Ganda, Oh, I want to know 133 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 1: about the fabrics, it's so pretty. What do people do? 134 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: And to me, I found so much overlap between our cultures, 135 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: like even in the food they eat Plantain, like eat 136 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: a lot of the foods that you eat in Colombia. 137 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: But then also like in Virginia where there's like a 138 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: lot of peanuts and there's a lot of yams and 139 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: things like that, you know, there's a ya yuka and 140 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: like sun culture and like eating stews. Growing up with 141 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: that kind of culture, and then you go somewhere like 142 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: Ghana and it's like, oh, this is kind of where 143 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: it comes from. You know, you kind of see where 144 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: it like fits together like like things. Um So for me, 145 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: I think it's been really interesting to kind of live there, 146 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: and I think based off of both my family and 147 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: friends are interested in what I was doing in the US, 148 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: but then also in Colombia and Spain who are constantly 149 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: asked me what I was doing. I was like, Okay, 150 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: well maybe I'll try to make a platform, and like 151 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, working with a lot of creatives, I kind 152 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: of was inspired by some of them. So and so 153 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: can you tell us the name of your blog again 154 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: and where people can find it? Yeah, so as to 155 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: handom experiences dot com, Um, I have my Instagram page, 156 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: there's a link. So if you go at Kayla four 157 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: a k A y l A f O r y 158 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: there's a link in my description handle experiences. I love it. 159 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: And and you also are basically like Colombian like soccer 160 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: royalty as well, what us because everybody wants did you 161 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: really think you were going to be able to be 162 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: on and not talk about this Columbiana royalty or what so? 163 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: So true? Yeah, so my dad he um, he played 164 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: on the like U nineteen national team in Colombia and 165 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: he was a coach. So my whole life like at 166 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: Stanford he coached like Julie Fadley and like me at hand, 167 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: Christie Chesstaining, all those women that were on the American team, 168 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: he coached them before they were on that team. Yeah. 169 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: And then like I have cousins who play like Alterno 170 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: He's yeah, he's a cousin, and then uh, Chris ac Milan, 171 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: he's the second cousin too. So like literally, you know, 172 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: like we watched we watched the World Couple a lot. 173 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: Like I'm sure it gets real crazy. And are you 174 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: yourself a soccer player? I grew up I think walking 175 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: and then playing soccer, okay, but I kind of chose 176 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: to do other sports. Um. I did volleyball in high 177 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: school and I used to speed SKay and things like that, 178 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: but I didn't end up sticking with it. But you know, yeah, 179 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: I had it in my blood. It's there. It's there, 180 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: it's there. And I'm so curious, like I imagine that 181 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: you know, everybody has their personal style, you know, your 182 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: street style, whatever has influenced you your look. How has 183 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: working in a fashion house influenced your look? Because I 184 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: can just just knowing you, like over the years, I 185 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: feel like you've definitely evolved into your own look like 186 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: since working at studio in Ghana. I see it like 187 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: you look have you look amazing? Let's describe what she's wearing, right, 188 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: Describe for the listeners what you put together today and 189 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: put a picture? What post the picture with all of us? 190 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: But yes, okay um, So I'm wearing like a shirt dress. 191 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: It's a button down, it's very long, it's tie and 192 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: dive made by artistans and Khana. It's so it's blue 193 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: and white. And then I kind of have it partially 194 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: tucked in so you can see my pencil skirt. And 195 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: the pencil skirt is handwoman from Synegal. It's actually from 196 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: my aunts. She had it when she was in Peace 197 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: Corps and so I have a couple of her pieces 198 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: that she know she's carried around from being in Africa 199 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: for the last what something years. This is the same aunty, 200 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: same aunt who's in Ghana, so she's lived all over. 201 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: So I think I got a little inspiration from her 202 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: and then my mom, and then also working in a 203 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: fashion house and being around so many creative people on 204 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: the photo shoots with the stylists, you realize that you 205 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: don't have to wear something the way it's maybe marketed 206 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: or like designed, so like you could wear a skirt 207 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: as a dress, or you can wear a parao scarf 208 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: as a skirt, or you know, like there's so much 209 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: that you can do. Or I've seen people take like 210 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: belts and make like tubetops and you're like, oh, I 211 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: didn't know that was you know, and you're like, but 212 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: it's so cute. And so I think being around that 213 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: energy has helped me be more creative and kind of 214 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: looking see, okay, well what could I do with this? 215 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: And I like to get pieces that are more versatile 216 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: so I can dress it up or down because sometimes 217 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: you have to go in and out between places, and 218 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: so it's nice to be able to do something really 219 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: quick and like change the whole look amazing. And so 220 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: how would you describe your style? Maybe pre like working 221 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:38,479 Speaker 1: in fashion, and I feel like before it was probably 222 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: a lot more like practical, like it wasn't as like stylish, 223 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: I think because I was also you know, with sports 224 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: was really big part of my life, especially as a 225 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: student because I was on the volleyball team and I 226 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: did track and I was skating, so I was often 227 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: in between Jim. So to be completely honest, I feel 228 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: like it was like a lot more like practical, just 229 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: kind of like not thinking so much about it. And 230 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: so I think going to Ghana kind of really opened 231 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: up this whole creative side of me that I really 232 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: enjoyed to play with the different colors and the prints 233 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: and kind of mix and match styles and like wovens 234 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: with things that are printed, and like how you kind 235 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: of pair it together so it looks cohesive. And I 236 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: would imagine that, like, for example, being in Boston, fashion 237 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: is it's not really fashion. It isn't it's covering, it's 238 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: just protection. It's so cold element and it's like there's 239 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: no sunshine. It's a little dreary, and you know, people 240 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: just go into class like sad, like sad. So it's 241 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: like there wasn't really a whole lot of inspiration to 242 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: be like, oh, let me go do this. Didn't I 243 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: have a question? Because my life is always serving some looks. 244 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: So you can, you can you tell us a little 245 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: bit about Maline college, But would she like himself? What 246 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: was she dressing? Like just trying to stay warm. I'm 247 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: just trying to stay alive. That's so true, though, No, 248 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: I feel like you were just such a force. Can 249 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: you remember that about you? Like you went to Cuba 250 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, God, damn, why can't I go 251 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: to Cuba? And then basically did. Yeah. Then just like 252 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: calls you and I was like, how do I do that? 253 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: How do I do this? That's true? That's true. So 254 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: I mean that's how I always saw you. I saw 255 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: you as someone who was like super independent, you kind 256 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: of go getter. You're like always out there, You're like 257 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: a leader. Like even like freshman year, I was like, look, 258 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: this is the way. She's from California. So we had 259 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: a Cali connection, yeah, you know, because we were kind 260 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: of cold, like but yeah, I mean I definitely think 261 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: that environment and location and climate changes everything about your clothes, 262 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: like you your social circles. We have seen that with 263 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: the Mommy Collected. You know how our styles have evolved 264 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: because we're always together or we w together and we're 265 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: like are we doing casual today? Are we doing like 266 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: high lamb? What are we doing tonight? No, that's so true. 267 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: Like you know, being in Ghana and depending on who 268 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: I was around, because sometimes I'm with more and like 269 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: in the village, which is a very different style than 270 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: maybe going to like red more red carpet events or 271 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: something like that. And I feel like I had to 272 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: learn to kind of transition into this wide range of 273 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: events of like, Okay, so how do I dress knowing 274 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: that I have to do this and then that like 275 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: two hours later. Versatile? Yeah, you know. So that's why 276 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: I like the versatile things that you dress up and 277 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: down lots of buttons and kind of pull things apart 278 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: and make it look very different. Absolutely, And what is 279 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: it like working with Rosario? Because I love Rosario? Rosario 280 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: is one of those actresses that I feel like she's 281 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: worked consistently, but she's always been true to her craft, 282 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: like she's a true actress, you know, and likely anytime 283 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: I've seen her in a film, like I see her acting. Um, 284 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: and I really just like I've always admired her, always 285 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: admired her, and I think she's so beautiful and she 286 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: she's so beautiful, and I think it's so cool that 287 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: you get to work with her. I want to know 288 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: more a bit about that. Um. Yes, she's amazing. Oh man, 289 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: go mama, I love her someone, we love her. She 290 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: is just so incredibly passionate about what she does, but 291 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: then also incredibly professional you know, and to kind of 292 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: see her go in and out from you know, maybe 293 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: talking to you on the side about one thing or 294 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: an other. But she also has a very good eye, 295 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: and so she has a lot of feedback for people, 296 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: and she's really amazing mentor. And I think she's really 297 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: open to teaching people and using her experience to kind 298 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: to be a platform for others. I think that's the 299 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: whole point of studio in any nine. Her in a 300 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: rama really wanted to be a platform to give awareness 301 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: and maybe elevate the crafts of what was already in 302 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: kind tree and what was tradition um. And so I 303 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: think that was something I really looked up to her about, 304 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: was how she could kind of navigate in between being 305 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: like this persona like outside but then coming in and 306 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: then being such a mentor, so loving but then so 307 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: passionate about what she does, but then also you know, 308 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: knows how to work get her stuff done. She goes 309 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: in the shoot, it's like three images, perfect shots, boom done, 310 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, It's like some people 311 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: go in and it's like it takes a little while 312 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: to like feel it with the camera or you know, 313 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: get the vibe right. But she's just like, yeah, she's 314 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: just the boss. And you just see her put that 315 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: face on. You're like, she's at work. Yeah, like she 316 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: didn't come to play, you know. So I thought that was, 317 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, really inspired to be around like that kind 318 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: of woman that you know, so dynamic. I love it. Yeah, 319 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: I love her. I'm so happy for you that you've 320 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: gotten the chance to work with somebody like her. And 321 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: I think, um, now this is a good place for 322 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,360 Speaker 1: us to take a little break and play our song 323 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: to a song break or call ros and and and 324 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: and and and and and and and and and and 325 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: and and and and and and and and and ro 326 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: and and and send it roa and and and send 327 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: ro and and and and ummmm from from from from 328 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: from from of it and ship m and we're back. 329 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: And so now coming back into this capitulo. You know, 330 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: this is is basically Look Upistemologies Part two. And we're 331 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: really happy, um Kayla to have you here to join 332 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: us in this conversation. So happy to be here, guy. Yes, 333 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: So just to recap our first ever copilo was called 334 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: look Up Pistemologies, and we basically talked about this trope, 335 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,640 Speaker 1: this ongoing you know, this ongoing phenomenon that we see 336 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: like in a lot of our Latin American folklore, especially 337 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: speaking specifically about like Chicano Mexican Mexican American folklore, talking 338 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: about Laona, right, um Lama la different female figures in 339 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: history that have always been taught to us and read 340 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: to us as being you know, look as in a 341 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: very negative way and in look up pistemologies. What we 342 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: try to do is unpack that, flip the script, and 343 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 1: look at that woman, that figure as a survivor, as 344 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: someone who has survived trauma and her behavior is a 345 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: response to trauma. Right. So we're continuing that discussion and 346 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: we're bringing in more examples of that trope and historically 347 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: of women who have been really traumatized but then also punished. 348 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: And I think in our day to day lives, we 349 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: can see even on the Internet, women that are women 350 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: of color, especially films that are talking about you know, 351 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: hashtag men or trash, are being told that they're crazy. 352 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope the love of your life sees this, 353 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: sees your Twitter page and decides not to be with 354 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: you anymore. Like that, like men talking trying to clap 355 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: back but actually not saying anything anything, per usual, per usual. So, 356 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: and Kayla, you were talking to us before we started 357 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: recording about a good example of a look apistemology, right right. Um, 358 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: So I love the book Beloved by Tony Morrison. And 359 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: she has this really strong character, UM called named Seeth. 360 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: And she is this woman who leaves slavery you know, 361 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: in the South, and walks herself to Ohio where she 362 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: starts her new life. She has kids, and she has 363 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: such a such a painful history, you know, and such 364 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 1: painful encounters with I think white people in general. Um, 365 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: because this is you know, around civil warsh time period. 366 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: And so there is a point in the Knovil He'll know. 367 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: I want to give away the whole novelment, but but 368 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: I feel like it's it's a it's a work that's 369 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: been out Yeah, okay, so it's been study. It's true, 370 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: It's true. Okay. So, so basically towards the end, you know, 371 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: you find out that there's this huge conflicted history there 372 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: because as a way to protect her children from the 373 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: pain and the suffering of being just black in America 374 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: in that time, when she's confronted with the clan, she 375 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: opts to kill her one of her own kids, and 376 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: it became this huge news story, and then she was 377 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: ostracized from the black community. She had no space. It 378 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: became this you know, overly bearing um trauma for her 379 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: in addition to what she had already been experiencing. You know. 380 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: But I think that kind of touches right along the 381 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: lines of what you're talking about, how it's like this continuous, 382 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: continuing narrative for so long with women of color, whether 383 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: it's you know, fans in Latin America or in the US. 384 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: You know, that's just unfortunately something that's persistent for so 385 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: so long. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that it's also 386 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: so interesting that in a lot of different whether it's 387 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: like US United States context or in Latin America, you 388 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: do have stories of people either killing themselves to avoid 389 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: being conquered or enslaved, or killing their children or setting 390 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: oneself on fire, right to basically free yourself of trauma 391 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: and confinement here on earth. But obviously there's also this 392 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 1: conflicting phenomenon where anybody who is deemed or considered suicidal, right, 393 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: that's a very negative thing, and there's a lot of 394 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: stigma and people are not really allowed to have that 395 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: type of agency over their own life because they're just crazy. 396 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: Doesn't account for like the crazy making that happens in 397 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: their life, right, the systems that led to that behavior. 398 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: It's not just that they woke up that way, right. 399 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: And you were you, Kayla, you were telling us a 400 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: little bit about reading Beloved while in Ghana, right, you know. 401 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: And I think for me it's such a powerful experience 402 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: as someone who identifies with the diaspora, um, like on 403 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: both sides of my family from very different parts of 404 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: the continent, um and then being in Ghana where there 405 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of slave castles just lining the coast, 406 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: and so to kind of look out into the water 407 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: and know that this was somebody's maybe last chance, you know, 408 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: seeing what they knew, and kind of reading these stories 409 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: of the trauma that happened hundreds of years into that process, 410 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, to me, it's just it's really incredible. It's 411 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: really like it's difficult to kind of process sometimes how 412 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: that has persisted for so long, and that you have 413 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: these places, like these monuments, these slave castles that are everywhere, 414 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: and it created this whole entire people like this diaspora 415 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: that's kind of really in between in many senses and 416 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: picking up Beloved and Ghana? Had you read the Beloved 417 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: was written by Tony Morrison, right, um and uh a 418 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: while ago. It's not a recent work, right, but it's 419 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: also I think one of her most critically acclaimed and 420 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: most celebrated work. Definitely, Uh that a lot of people read, 421 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: probably like in college courses, um and and in different contexts. 422 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: But had you read Beloved before Ghana or what was 423 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: like your your motivation to read it while you were there? So? 424 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: I actually hadn't read it before, but it's my mom's 425 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: favorite book, and so before I had left, she had 426 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: told me I should read it, and so I did. Yeah, 427 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: very nice, very nice. And while you were in Ghana, 428 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you did visit like slave castles. Yeah, 429 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: I did. Did you go by yourself? Did you go 430 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: with others in a group? Like? How did you approach 431 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: that experience? Yeah? So the first time I went, I 432 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: went with my aunt and it was really surreal and 433 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: it's a very kind of haunting place to be. Um 434 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: to also kind of think that's so much suffering that 435 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: leads to still a lot of suffering today, you know, 436 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: kind of many respects kind of started there and they 437 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: kind of think of what maybe others were thinking was 438 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: going on, because it would have been such a mind boggling, 439 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 1: out of body experience I imagine, um. And so to 440 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: kind of sit there and kind of pay respects to 441 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: the ancestors, I kind of like to go, even though 442 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: it's uncomfortable with many respects, but um, I do like 443 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: to go and visit and kind of remember what was, 444 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: and also, you know, in a more positive light, to 445 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: remember the resilience of our people, the people in Cuba 446 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: who still hold on to those drugging traditions, or the 447 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: people who are in Mississippi and they still eat their yam, 448 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: you know. So to think that even though we left 449 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: or were taken, there's still that remnants of Africa in us, 450 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: so much so in our culture. And so for me, 451 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: I try to take it as a more inspiring, um, 452 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: like remembering that we've come from so much. You said 453 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: something when we stepped out, you said something about, actually 454 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of organizing happening in Ghana or in 455 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: a crop by folks our age. Can you touch a 456 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 1: little bit upon that. Yeah, I think right now, the diaspora, 457 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: whether it's people who identify as Ghanaian American who maybe 458 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: grew up in the US, or maybe one parent is 459 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: since Switzerland, one Stundian, or they're like me where they 460 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have a more direct familial tie to Ghana, 461 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: but they're of color or they're black, are coming and 462 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: going back to Ghana to try to build businesses and 463 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: start up platforms to really support the communities there. Um. 464 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: I met so many people who either grew up in 465 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: Amsterdam or London or you know, Chicago, and they were 466 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: going back to Ghana because they felt like it was 467 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: the time now to use the skills that they had 468 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: learned maybe in a more western school and to kind 469 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: of bring that knowledge back to see how they could 470 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, use it in such a way that would 471 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: be um more positive in the context of where they were. 472 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of projects where there it's like 473 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: curating art or creating platforms for music. There's a new 474 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: African Film Society um that just started up. Um, there's 475 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: a lot of really I mean the project with Rosario 476 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: and Abrima. You know, there's a lot of projects I 477 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: think that are starting to really get a lot of 478 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: energy and um, a lot of positivity and people are 479 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, really taking it seriously. So I find that 480 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: to be really inspiring, that energy and that creativity. Yeah, 481 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: and do you see yourself continuing to work in fashion 482 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: at your your background as an international relations right, do 483 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: you still continue to see yourself working in fashion or 484 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: or taking a different direction and staying in the creative field. Um, 485 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: I mean I love working with the creative field. And 486 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: I think that there is overlap because I mean, when 487 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: you study international relations, you're looking at cultures and peoples 488 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: and economies, and that's no different than what we're doing 489 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: because we're in a different country. We're working with artisans 490 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: from Burkina, Fosso from Molly, from Ghana, and we're trying 491 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: to like literally create economies and like build a supply chain. 492 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: So the idea is, you know, if you have raw 493 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: materials and country that you can sell for cheap and 494 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: keep the processes in country, then that's a lot of 495 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: jobs within that chain that you're keeping there. That's a 496 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: lot of money that you're keeping there that people can 497 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: use to do what they need to as opposed to 498 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, selling it to China or the U S 499 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: or Europe, which is I think what typically happened because 500 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: there isn't always the infrastructure to do it. So I 501 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: think for me, it's not necessarily that different, um, because 502 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, we still work with the u N, we 503 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: work with the International Trade Center, We work with a 504 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: lot of these organizations that you would consider to be 505 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: more traditionally UM international relations, I guess it. And fashion. 506 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: Although fashion, I think is considered to be something that 507 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: is very like women focus, very you know that the 508 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: fashion industry is very much dominated by men, right, male 509 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: designers and other business people. In the context that you're 510 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: working in with fashion, do you see the same experience 511 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: or is it different as far as gender and who's involved. 512 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:28,719 Speaker 1: That's a good question. Um mm hmmm. I think within 513 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: GUNN in fashion, I see a lot more women involved, 514 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 1: like at the top. Just based even on your posts 515 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: and what I've seen in your posts, Kayla, I feel 516 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: like I see a lot of women involved in the 517 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: work and around you there are I mean pretty much 518 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: our I mean our entire management team is women, you know, 519 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: and they make a very conscious choice where they do 520 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: their look books and the creative shoots, to have women 521 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: of color, to have pretty much all very natural makeup, 522 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: to have a lot of natural hair, and curls, and 523 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: that's a very conscious decision to have those images out 524 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: there that way. Um, And that's kind of I think, 525 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: really picking up because even when we did the Ghana 526 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: Fashion Week this past year, there was an article that 527 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: came out about all the natural hair and the models, 528 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: and I remember seeing it, like comparing it year to year, 529 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking, oh, there's a lot more natural hair, 530 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: and I see a lot of curls, and this is 531 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 1: really good to see that the hair and makeup is 532 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, really paying attention to that, and you know 533 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: people are noticing that. And so I think there are 534 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 1: a lot of women that are involved in fashion and 535 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: Ghane like in particular. I think in the industry as 536 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: a whole, I think the people at the top, the 537 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: more decision making positions, tend to be more male dominated. 538 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: But I think at least where it is right now, 539 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: from what I could see in Ghana, I feel like 540 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of brands run by a lot of 541 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: really strong women. That's that's amazing, especially you're talking about 542 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: like the hair and makeup behind it, because we can see, 543 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: like a New York Fashion Week, all the cultural appropriation 544 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: that happens by these white designers, right, using the baby hairs, 545 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: using like putting corn rolls on white women, white models, right, 546 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: very very fair skinned, skinny like traditionally quote beautiful. Right. 547 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: And then the hoops that have been a thing as well, 548 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: so many, so many things, so many things have been 549 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: appropriated at New York Fashion Week, or maybe the more 550 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: European ones. So to see that very intentional natural hair 551 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: and makeup, I think that's that's incredible and very conscientious 552 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: of what they want the brand to be, right. Yeah. 553 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: And I think in general, that's like a trend that 554 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: was starting to see a lot more in Ghana. Was 555 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: I think there's this misconception that if something is nice 556 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: or if it's good, it's Western, you know, And so 557 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: you see a lot of like cheaply painted gold things 558 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: or whatever that there's like China appeal to, like this 559 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: very Western standard of what even like like interior design, 560 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: you know, and you're just like okay, right, But then 561 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: there's I think there's you know, like I was saying, 562 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: people of the diaspora who were coming back and saying, 563 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: there's a lot of really amazing handcrafted items that are 564 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: from here, whether it's hand woven Kente or it's hand 565 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: carved tables, or it's um, maybe the braiding. Like there's 566 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 1: so many things that are so uniquely African, that are 567 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: skilled and have a lot of craft and technique, and 568 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: I think changing the way that the marketing is done 569 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: around them as opposed to being like, oh it's from Africa, 570 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 1: it's like two dollars, but like, you know, someone spent 571 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: two weeks to leave this garment and then we had 572 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: to make it into a skirt or we had to 573 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: do something else, and so just like you would not 574 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: flinch about paying for something from maybe Cucci or Louis Baton, 575 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: Like you know, there's a lot that same quality you 576 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: can get in Africa. And I think the diaspora is 577 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: really pushing a lot of the people who have stores 578 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:11,919 Speaker 1: who tend to feature that type of that craft. They 579 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: tend to be gunning in but raised in Italy or 580 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: gunn in raised in the US. So I think it's 581 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,439 Speaker 1: really interesting how that's working at they're really trying to 582 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: push that idea of um really appreciating what craftsmanship in 583 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: West Africa is. I love that you brought that up, 584 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: because that's something that not we've had this conversation, although 585 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: not specific to West Africa. But you know, in our 586 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: Femtech episode, um, we talk about really recognizing and acknowledging, 587 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: embracing and celebrating those very traditional like indigenous and feminine 588 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: trade craft skills like weaving basket, weaving stone, Like you're 589 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: talking about creating handmade cane cloth. Right. As soon as 590 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: you said that, I was thinking about like blankets made 591 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: of like alpaca or which are really expensive in Peru, right, 592 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: And um, well expensive in the sense of like the 593 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: currency in Peru, not actually like if you're talking dollars, right, 594 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,479 Speaker 1: but it's really expensive, and it's like, well, why would 595 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: I pay that much? Well, why wouldn't you pay that 596 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: much when a woman just well this from an animal, 597 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: you know, and created this beautiful, intricate pattern. There's a 598 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: similar movement, right, I think it is. And you know, 599 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: the thing that's really important is when you're talking about 600 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 1: supporting local communities and communities of color, especially women who 601 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: have often this responsibility of passing down this tradition or 602 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: this craft if it's not economically viable, like if she 603 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: can't support her kids on that, then why would she 604 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: teach your kids to sew? Or why would she teach 605 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: your kids to leave or to die if it doesn't 606 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: get them what they need in life. So I think 607 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: that's another part of preserving the tradition is also you know, 608 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 1: if you can find a market for it, then someone's 609 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: going to continue to do it. It'll write you let 610 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: the tradition and that ancient knowledge live on in a 611 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: modern context, in a capitalist context where it's kind of 612 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: like like produce or perish. It's true, it's true, you know. 613 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's interesting because if like in I'm in 614 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 1: a more role setting, or if it's more um people 615 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: who are sometimes you know, more local, maybe they haven't 616 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 1: traveled as much. And then they see me wearing like, 617 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, the batakari, which is like a very traditional 618 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: garment with Kente, They're like, why why why don't you 619 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: just wear like pants suit or something, And I'm like, 620 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: why not? This is so much more beautiful than a pantsuit, 621 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: Like to be this took way more time and effort, 622 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: and it's so beautiful and it has this really rich 623 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: culture to it, like I love this and its symbols 624 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: and you know what I mean. So I think kind 625 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,959 Speaker 1: of changing the mentality will take a lot of time, 626 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 1: and I think it's something that a lot of young 627 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: people are kind of working towards just like really embracing that. Yeah. 628 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 1: That that makes me think, like how how we perceive 629 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: what professional looks like? Right? We talked about that a 630 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: lot on the podcast, but like why wouldn't you wear 631 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: a pants suit? Right? That that's how the question It's like, well, 632 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: does this mean I can do my job less? Like 633 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: can I do it? You know? Can I not do 634 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: it as effect that we're as well just because I'm 635 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: wearing right the professionally? Yeah, exactly, what's the real issue? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Wow, 636 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 1: there's so much there too, because you can talk about 637 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: how you know, I think that we are of a 638 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: I think each passing generation, especially if you're of color 639 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: or if you're of the diaspora, then there is this 640 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: ability for us maybe to let go of certain like 641 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: respectability being that are imposed to have been imposed, and 642 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: I think also like to be able to reclaim things, 643 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: right because if you're a child of immigrants, you're I 644 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: think you your parents are their immigrants. They're trying to 645 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: assimilate right there, trying to Usually that that's usually the case, right, 646 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: of course, not for everyone, but that is the case, 647 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: so that if you're a child of immigrants, I think 648 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: you have that privilege to be able to try and 649 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: reclaim something as opposed to your parents maybe trying to 650 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 1: forget that's something true. I don't know. I think maybe 651 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: there's something there. No, it's true, you know, And kind 652 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: of I think as somebody who grew up with my 653 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: mom being American but then my dad being Columbian and 654 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of having both of that, I did feel like 655 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: there was a push to be more American, but then 656 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: kind of me, I always just felt more comfortable with 657 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: my like Columbia family or with my I don't know, 658 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: with like when we were I don't know. So I 659 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: think it's just really interesting kind of what sometimes people 660 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,919 Speaker 1: think is like an advantage and they're trying to give 661 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: it to you. Like some people will like straighten your 662 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: hair because they see it as like you can't s 663 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: vibe your environment unless you, you know, fit into a 664 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: certain standard, when you know in reality, it's like this 665 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: just grows on my head. Yeah, y'all need to stop 666 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: being so right, And if that can, I can I ask, like, 667 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: how has your your experience been like wearing your natural 668 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: hair in the United States? Versus in Ghana. Have you 669 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: noticed a difference? Is it the same have like, is 670 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: there definitely a different way that you're looked at or 671 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: treating I think so, But I think in Ghana it's 672 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,280 Speaker 1: just it's so layered though because they're some people perceived 673 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: me as white, which I would never get in I have. 674 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: I have heard that before from the Tufts and Ghana 675 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: like groups like at Tufts who had gone and studied 676 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: and then they came back, And that's something that I 677 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: had heard that basically, if you're not going to nay 678 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: In like by birth, right, then you're white or you're 679 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: like and you're a foreigner right. No, it's true, like 680 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: I've had, he will be very confused about you're obviously 681 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: not African, so you're white and interesting. It's like a 682 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: very like in their head, it's a very binary situation 683 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,440 Speaker 1: of what race is um. But then also because of that, 684 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: there's a lot of privileges that I'm not used to 685 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,879 Speaker 1: there then when I'm here, so like I remember a 686 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: friend of mine actually pointed out to me how like 687 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: just like something small like the waiters were extra attentive 688 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: to me, and then like and she's African, she's Cameramonian 689 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: and they and she's darker skin and they completely like 690 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: didn't even pay attention to what she was doing, got it? 691 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: And she kept trying to ask for help, And the 692 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: tension always seemed to like divert itself to me. And 693 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: I think in the moment I didn't really notice, um, 694 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: but and I started to like see a lot more, 695 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, like there are areas where I think, if 696 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 1: you're dressed a certain way and you're Ghanaian or your Africans, 697 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: sometimes I can be a little picky about are you 698 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: supposed to be in this space versus like someone like 699 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: me who's very much either mixed for them or like 700 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: American or just European or just not you know, from 701 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: somewhere else. They totally less slide, very totally less sly, 702 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 1: like because there was there in the times where people 703 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: would ask me it was there like a dress clode 704 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: for certain places, and I'm like, I don't think so, 705 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, and I just kind of go 706 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: however I am. And then you know, maybe a friend 707 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: who's maybe more African would have an issue. Okay. So 708 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 1: I also ran into that, which is something I didn't 709 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: really experience as a black woman in America because it 710 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 1: was never in my favor. So that was kind of 711 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: an interesting thing that kind of adjust to to learn 712 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: to be aware of that. And I think that's a 713 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: really interesting experience that especially when you go to any 714 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 1: quote unquote like global South or world location, whether it 715 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: be like we both have, we saw this in Cuba, right, 716 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,440 Speaker 1: whether you're in Cuba, somewhere else in the Caribbean, Latin America, Mexico, Colombia, 717 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: or whatever country you're in on the African continent, that 718 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,800 Speaker 1: people who live in that place, were born in that place, 719 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: work in that place, are going to be treated way 720 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: worse than any visitor or tourists or foreigner, even regardless 721 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: of color. Sometimes of the tourist or American or visitor, 722 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: the person coming from outside in visiting and participating in 723 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: that tourism economy in some way is treated better. No, 724 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,879 Speaker 1: it's true, you know, you got that dollar privilege, that's 725 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: what you call it, exactly, and it's really a shame 726 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 1: because it's you know, especially when you're somewhere with your 727 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: family and then you see it happened to your cousins, 728 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: like against you kind of thing, and it's like that 729 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,839 Speaker 1: literally is the same, like we're the same, like we're 730 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: literally people. You know that can be kind of painful, 731 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: like colorialism, colonialism, there's so much to say about it. 732 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:15,800 Speaker 1: That's like that's several other pastage for the future. But 733 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: you know, um, we're coming towards the end of our 734 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: time here, to the end of Brown Girl Hour. So 735 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: I just want to say Kayla again, thank you so much. 736 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 1: And Kayla's just kind of here in between her travels. 737 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: Where are you going next? I'm going to Malawi, which 738 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: is in southeastern Africa. I'll be working with a tough 739 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:41,879 Speaker 1: scrap also Latina Latina. Yes, she's creating her own fashion line, 740 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,280 Speaker 1: Ethical fashion is support local women seamstresses. Her name's Renata 741 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: and the brand is called Mwaiti. So I'll be helping 742 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,839 Speaker 1: them step their operations. Amazing, that's amazing. These South Americans 743 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: just doing it just right. We want to wait, we 744 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,440 Speaker 1: just have interesting I love it it. Yes, and we 745 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: have one more song, right, so can can we talk 746 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: about the song that we're going to end with? And 747 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: if you want to say any anything else to our listeners, Kayla, 748 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: like you want to leave the name of your blog 749 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: again or any other information. This is your time, okay, um, well, 750 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: so just check out my Instagram. You can follow my 751 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: travels because I'll be in Malawi, possibly back in Ghana. 752 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: Who knows where I'll be right so you know I 753 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: always have a lot of interesting posts and be a 754 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: lot of really interesting people in the arts and the 755 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: creative sectors um and linked to my um blog is 756 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,919 Speaker 1: there to kindle experiences. It's in Spanish and English. Um 757 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: so I talked about my experiences in Africa now and 758 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: more generally as afric Latina Kayla once again, thank you 759 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: so much so and listeners, thank you once again for 760 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: tuning in to another cup Beat the Little Brown Girl Hour. 761 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time, Besso.