1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Body backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. When my father got 2 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: home from his service with the Marine Corps, he proceeded 3 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: to pack me and my mama up. I guess I 4 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: was probably seven, I think, and moved us to Georgia 5 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: from Louisiana. Louisiana is all I'd ever known growing up, 6 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: and you know, when I arrived in Georgia, I had 7 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: just turned eight. And the first school that I was 8 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: ever in obviously in elementary school, but the first grade 9 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: I was ever in there was third grade. And I'll 10 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: never forget my teacher because I was a fish out 11 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: of water. I didn't know anybody. I remember being very scared. 12 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: But the teacher I had, her name was Miss People's. 13 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: She was always kind to me. I remember Dave. She 14 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: had a big old beehive hairdoo, and she always took 15 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: time and she was kind to me. It's almost like 16 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: she understood, just for a moment, of how fearful I was, 17 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: because all these other kids had been together since they 18 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: were probably in kindergarten. But she made a lasting impression 19 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: on me, and it's something that has stuck with me 20 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: to this very day. And because of the kindness that 21 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: she extended to me. I used her kind of as 22 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: a role model in my teaching. It's weird, how you know, 23 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: you reflect back on your life and you think about 24 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: those little bench marks to try to be kind to 25 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: my students within reason, without knuckling under to their demand 26 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: so much. But mss People's had an effect on me, 27 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: and I'll forever be grateful for that experience I had 28 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: with her. But today we're going to discuss another third 29 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: grade teacher, a lady who was single. She had a 30 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: job teaching in public schools, but she was also pregnant 31 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: and it was probably for that reason that she was 32 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: executed by stranger off the street. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 33 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: and this is body Bags. Dave. You started elementary school 34 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: out in California, didn't you? 35 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 2: You? 36 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 1: Did you remember in third grade? Remember when you were eight? 37 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: I do remember it, Joe, pretty much as you do. 38 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 3: Third grade is an important year in our lives. You 39 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: learn so many new things, and the teacher has to 40 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: be like super patient with everybody. I think that's why 41 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 3: we have such fond memories of our teacher in those 42 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 3: years of third fourth grade. But anyway, the reason this 43 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 3: has hit you and I is because we have the 44 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: death of a thirty year old third grade teacher. Her 45 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: name is Jocelyn Peters and she is well liked by 46 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 3: friends and family. She has no known enemies, and to 47 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: top it off, she is now seven months pregnant. Her 48 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 3: body is discovered by her boyfriend, the father of her 49 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 3: unborn baby, Cornelius Green. Green is married to another woman, 50 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: but he is currently living with his sister. Green returned 51 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: from a short trip to Chicago by catching a six 52 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 3: forty am Amtrak train from Chicago to Saint Louis the 53 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 3: earlier in the day. He arrives at Joscelyn Peter's apartment 54 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: a little after three pm and finds her in her bed, 55 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 3: unconscious with a gunshot wound to the head. At three 56 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 3: point fifteen, Cornelius Green calls nine to one one. Joscelyn 57 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 3: Peters is pronounced dead at the scene. So the murder 58 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 3: of this third grade teacher begins in her apartment with 59 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: her boyfriend, Cornelius Green. But Joe, you were talking to 60 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 3: me about third grade, just generally speaking about third grade 61 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 3: and the impact the death of their teacher would have 62 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: on the students. Because of your third grade memories. 63 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: You know, one of the things I remember about third grade, Dave. 64 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: I remember that that is the year that I first 65 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: began to learn cursive. It's a critical moment in a 66 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: student's life, and it's either gonn it's at that age 67 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: it's either gonna succeed or fail based upon the teacher 68 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: you have and their little commitment, because it's intense learning, 69 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: it really is. And I can only imagine the void 70 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: that was left behind, and not just this victim's family, 71 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: but also her colleagues at school and certainly these kids. 72 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: You know, I just told you. I'm not going to 73 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: tell you precisely how many years ago it was. It 74 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: was a long We've had several presidents since then. That way, 75 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: it was a long time ago. And I still remember 76 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: her beehive Hairdo I still remember her name. I remember 77 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: the classroom, and I remember her kindness. And that's how 78 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: impactful these teachers can be on somebody's life. And it's 79 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: isn't it amazing? Dave? How I've often thought about this 80 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: When you have a homicide involving somebody that is so 81 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: connected to an environment like a school, or you know, 82 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: maybe they're involved in civic civic things, it's almost as 83 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: if you've got this beautiful, pristine, calm mountain lake and 84 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: it's not moving at all, and suddenly somebody picks up 85 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: a bowlder and drops it right in the middle, and 86 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: those ripples just go out forever and ever and ever, 87 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: and it touches everything, and you're only seeing what it's 88 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: touching on the surface. You never know what it's impacting 89 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: beneath the surface. Dave. 90 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 3: In this particular case, Jocelyn Peters is a third grade teacher. 91 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 3: She's thirty years old, and she's seven months pregnant. Joe 92 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: she Ms. Peters has been having a relationship with the 93 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 3: school principal. His name is Cornelius Green. Now Cornelius Green 94 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 3: is a bit of a player. He has a wife 95 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 3: that he's legally married to, He has Joscelyn Peters carrying 96 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: his child, and he has other girlfriends as well. When 97 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: Ms Peters will not end the pregnancy, Cornelius Green decides 98 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: her being pregnant, having this baby is going to cost 99 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 3: me my career, my marriage, It's going to ruin me, 100 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: so I'm going to take her out. He gets his friend, 101 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: Philip Cutler. Philip Cutler lives He's an Okie from Muskogee. 102 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: He lives in Oklahoma. This takes place in Saint Louis, Missouri, 103 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: and Cornelo's Green and Philip Culer of in lifelong Friends, 104 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 3: and Cornelo's Green reaches out to his buddy Philip Cutler 105 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: in Oklahoma and says, I need help. Now we're putting 106 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 3: a number of these things together, but the bottom line, 107 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 3: Cornelia's Green steals twenty five hundred dollars from the school 108 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 3: that he eat is principal of, and ups is the 109 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: money to Philip Cutler. 110 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: And this is a middle school. These schools have these 111 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, we used to call them kiddies. They're 112 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: like a kitty where you keep the cash right and 113 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: it's maybe, I don't know, maybe it's cash that's taken 114 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: in from the school fair. Maybe it's cash that's taken 115 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: in from some kind of fundraiser like solar candy or 116 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: peanuts or something like that. And after a while, some 117 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: of these canals get kind of robust, and it's all cash. 118 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: That's the thing about it. It's all cash. And as 119 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: you well know, you know, cash is very difficult to trace. 120 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: But in this case, you're going to take it right 121 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: from your place of employment. And I think the idea 122 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: that you're going to was it ups is that is 123 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: that what story was? Here's where it start ups it 124 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: to this individual. 125 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know, in our world we live in. 126 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 3: You and I have talked about the number of surveillance 127 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 3: cameras that are available. The way we use cell phone, 128 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: We ping a cell phone for a location on somebody. 129 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: In this case, investigators fill in the blanks using text messages. 130 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 3: There's a text message from Green to Culor kind of. 131 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 3: They don't talk specifics, just they know what they're talking about. 132 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: And it is when that timing is arranged for a 133 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 3: color to come to town and and Cutler sends message 134 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: Degree about a package. You need to send any misspelled package, 135 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: but got to send me the package. So the principal 136 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 3: of the school steals twenty five hundred dollars from the 137 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 3: school and then uses the school's address as the return 138 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: address on the parcel that he sends. He sends twenty 139 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 3: five hundred dollars to Cutler in Oklahoma and uses the 140 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 3: school as the return address. 141 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: Joe, Yeah, I never can This is my thing. And 142 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm certainly you know, no genius, that's for sure. It's 143 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: been proven over and over throughout my life. But one 144 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: of the things about these kind of conspiratorial cases, you 145 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,719 Speaker 1: know where you've got you've got this, a couple of 146 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: people that enter into a conspiracy together to commit a crime. 147 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: I'm always amazed at the level of I don't know 148 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: if it's ignorance or arrogance that they think that they're 149 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: going to get away with it, or maybe they're just 150 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,599 Speaker 1: so out of their minds, not in touch with reality, 151 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: they don't really calculate the cost of what they're doing, 152 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: and they think that they're going to survive this because intact. 153 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 3: Again, remember, this is a man who is married legally 154 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 3: married to somebody else. He's having an affair with a teacher. 155 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 3: She is now pregnant, and he's got other relationships with 156 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: other women. This is something else that came out in 157 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 3: this investigation. And all I'm thinking Joe is his best 158 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: plan was to hire to give his buddy twenty five 159 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: hundred dollars to come and kill her, to kill the 160 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: woman carrying his child, to protect himself. Now, what kind 161 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 3: of a sociopath are you that can have this type 162 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 3: of relationship stuff going on? 163 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 2: Think about it. 164 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: He doesn't care about his marriage, He's legally married. He 165 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 3: stood up in front of us and everyone married a 166 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: woman and then cheated on her to the point where, 167 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 3: by the way, Green is not living at the time 168 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: all this takes place. He's living in a house with 169 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: his sister. So his legally married wife has had her 170 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: fill of him, apparently, but that's where that's where it 171 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 3: all comes about. So Green steals money from the school 172 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 3: ups is it to his buddy Cutler in Oklahoma, and 173 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 3: they arrange for mister Cutler to arrive in Saint Louis, Missouri, 174 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: and to stay at Green's house was Green and his sister. 175 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: So Cutler comes to town. Green then takes an Amtrak 176 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 3: train out of town to Chicago. He goes from Saint 177 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 3: Louis to Chicago and he stays up there for a 178 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 3: couple of days. Now, he leaves Cutler keys to his 179 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 3: Kia Optima and by the way, keys to the apartment 180 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 3: of Jocelyn Peters. So while Green is away in Chicago, 181 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: that's his alibi. He's away in Chicago. His buddy comes 182 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 3: from Oklahoma, stays in his house, uses his car, uses 183 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 3: his keys to enter the woman's apartment, and in the 184 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 3: middle of the night, while Joscelyn Peters is sound asleep, 185 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 3: her seven month pregnant. She's seven months pregnant, Joe, that 186 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 3: baby's moving around. She's feeling a baby kick and elbows 187 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: and totally. This guy Cutler, Philip Cutler, at thirty five 188 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: years old, goes along with his buddy Cornelia is Green 189 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 3: to take the life of this woman by putting a 190 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 3: thirty eight caliber firearm up to her head and using 191 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: a potato as a silencer. 192 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the audacity of it. I think that you 193 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: actually think that you can get away with this sort 194 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: of thing. And here's another thing. I'm curious. She's seven 195 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: months along and you and I both have experienced being 196 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: in the presence of our beautiful wives over the years 197 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: that you know when they're pregnant, you know what that 198 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: circumstance is like, It's a very uncomfortable time. Does anybody 199 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: else in her life life have an awareness of this pregnancy? 200 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: And in a school which is kind of like its 201 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: own closed community, people talk, People love to talk, and 202 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: can you imagine if word had gotten out about this 203 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 1: and the connection, you know, the connective tissue is they're 204 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: so fond of saying today between her the victim here 205 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: who by the way, the child, the unborn child, is 206 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: a victim as well. And this principle, you think word 207 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: may have gotten out, you think she had said anything 208 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: to anybody, Because this I do know. You cannot defeat science, 209 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: and you cannot defeat our investigative abilities. If we have 210 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: an unknown and we have someone that is tied up 211 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: in a relationship like this with somebody, and we can 212 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: figure that out, you will be in a case like this. 213 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: You're not just looking for the shooter initially. You are 214 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: because you know when you enter onto a scene. And 215 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: I can only imagine these investigators when they got to 216 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: her apartment and they see her there, dead and pregnant, 217 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: and she's got a single gunshot wound to the head. 218 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: I can almost predict the way the questions came about 219 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: in the investigator's mind. First off, they're going to say, 220 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: what's she married, what she divorced, what was she dating? Anybody? 221 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: And that's how it's going to come because look, say 222 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: which will about criminals. Criminals don't go around most of 223 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: the time just out and out executing. And this was 224 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: an execution, Dave executing a pregnant woman like this in 225 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: her own home, and that gives you another clue here, 226 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: who had you know, what's the old adage, you know, 227 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: opportunity access accessibility. You know, in this particular case. 228 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: Who means motive opportunity? 229 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know who's going to have that ability to 230 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: get this close to her in order to pull this off. 231 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 1: And so when you're kind of attempting to connect all 232 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: the investigative threads here, I wouldn't think that it would 233 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: take very long to run a lot of this down. 234 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: I actually, when we first started looking at this, went 235 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 3: back to the reporting at the time. The reason we're 236 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 3: looking back at this. This happened in March of twenty sixteen, 237 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 3: and it took years before it made its way through 238 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 3: the court system. But I went and looked at what 239 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 3: happened in the investigation because you always you have this person, 240 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 3: an elementary school teacher, third grade teacher, pregnant is murdered 241 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 3: in her apartment. That's headline news. That's going to be 242 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 3: your cover story in the Saint Louis paper. And so 243 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 3: I started tracking it from there and what they knew 244 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 3: very quickly. Just to give you a heads up, I 245 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 3: told you that Cornelius Green actually booked an Amtrak train 246 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: trip to Chicago, leaving his buddy Philip Cutler at the 247 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: house with his keys in his car. And it was 248 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: Cornelius Green who is in Chicago. When Philip Cutler allegedly 249 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 3: shoots and kills Miss Peters, he calls and tells Cornelius 250 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: Green she's dead, come on home, and so Green gets 251 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: an Amtrak train ticket at six point thirty in the morning, 252 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: comes back to Saint Louis and goes straight to her 253 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 3: apartment where he Cornelius Green discovers her body. So he 254 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 3: has his train ticket leaving town and returning so that 255 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 3: he can show I wasn't even in town when this happened. 256 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 3: And he's the one Cornelia's Green is the one that 257 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 3: calls nine to one one. I just got back from Chicago. 258 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: I came to my girlfriend's house and she's laying here 259 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 3: dead in bet and that's where the investigation begins. So 260 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 3: you said, well, is she married, does she have a boyfriend? 261 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: Divorce? What is the situation? 262 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: And boom, he's right here, the boyfriend, baby daddy, the 263 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 3: married man is standing right in front of you. And 264 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 3: it didn't take any kind of time for them to 265 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: put this together. Joe we're talking about you know what, 266 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 3: Philip Cutler was arrested within ninety days. 267 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And it makes sense because you know, look, 268 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: somebody's going to sing on this one of two ways 269 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: you're going to get information. And this principle is supposedly 270 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: to you know, attain that level of success where someone 271 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: has put you in charge of an entire school of children. 272 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: You would think that you're going to be pretty bright, 273 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: that you'll be educated, well educated. However, in this particular case, 274 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: you know, when you start talking about and I use 275 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: the term electronic bread crumbs a lot, why are you 276 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: going to be having these conversations, you know, with this 277 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: individual that has arrived from Oklahoma at your bidding, by 278 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: the way, and you're leaving not just electronic bread combs behind, 279 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: but also when you begin to think about, well, hey, dude, 280 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: how'd you get your hands on twenty five hundred dollars cash? 281 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: Because my next question would be, well, does this guy 282 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: naturally have this much liquidity where he's traveling around with 283 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: this bundle of cash? Well, his buddies ask him to 284 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: come into town. Does his buddy have this kind of 285 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: liquidity where he can get his hands on twenty five 286 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 1: hundred dollars cash. Oh, where does he work? Well, he 287 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: works at school. Gee, school secretary. Can you tell us 288 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: how much money is in the kitty or how much 289 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: is missing from the kiddy? Oh, my gosh, yeah, we 290 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: got twenty five hundred dollars missing. So it doesn't take 291 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: an Einstein here to begin to kind of put this 292 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: together and understand. I think one of the the curious 293 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: things about this is, as you had mentioned, David, it 294 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: took so long to kind of get the wheels up 295 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: on this and running. I think that what you're dealing 296 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: with here are two separate entities that are pursuing prosecution. Here. 297 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: You know, at a federal level, you don't have a 298 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: traditional homicide charge. That's a state charge's charge. Then most 299 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 1: of the time, well most time, there is no federal 300 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: charge for homicide. You can have things like conspiracy, you 301 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: can have things like fraud. There is no federal statute on. 302 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 3: System to give you a quick heads up at how 303 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 3: quickly they figured this out, Joe, I went back and 304 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 3: looked at my research on this June tenth, twenty sixteen. 305 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 3: All right, now, this happened March twenty fourth, twenty sixteen, 306 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 3: less than ninety days. They already knew the paper out 307 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 3: of Musgogi, the Phoenix, and the Saint Louis Post Dispatch 308 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: all had Philip J. Cutler arrested, charged with first degree 309 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 3: murder of his best friend's pregnant girlfriend. They already had 310 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 3: all of the pieces and parts in this case when 311 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 3: they charged Cutler less than ninety days after the murder. 312 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 3: They already knew that he had gone to Saint Louis, 313 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 3: that he had driven his buddy's car, that he stated 314 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 3: his buddy's house. They knew all of that, and that 315 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 3: he got keys because there was no sign of forced entry. 316 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: Force centerior struggle. Yeah, the door hasn't been kicked in, 317 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: It hasn't been pried open, no windows or busted. 318 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 2: What about a. 319 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 3: Potata as a as a silencer, Joe, have you ever 320 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 3: heard this before? 321 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of those kind of urban myths that 322 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: has been floated for years and years, you know, relative 323 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: to trying to suppress because there's, first off, there's no 324 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: such thing as an actual silencer. That's a misnomer. It's 325 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: something that Hollywood created and people will say, well, you know, gee, 326 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: I want to silence this weapon. Wrong answer, You're not 327 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: going to silence the weapon. 328 00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 3: So when I hear them they pull, the trigger goes. 329 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 3: It's just that really light air sound. That's not a 330 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 3: real thing. 331 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: A lot light louder than that. Now you can the 332 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: only time that you will get a real appreciable reduction 333 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: in the noise is if you're using something kind of diminished, 334 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: like a small caliber arm, like a twenty five caliber round, 335 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 1: where you can kind of retard the sound to that point. 336 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, famously, and I actually got 337 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: to handle one of these weapons one time. There were 338 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: either seven or eight of these handguns that were made 339 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: by the CIA. Had a guy from the US Army 340 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: Crime Lab that came to my school at my invitation 341 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: and spoke. He brought with him one of the six 342 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: or seven, I can't remember that exact number of twenty 343 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: two caliber twenty two caliber pistols that was used in 344 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: the Phoenix project. And I got to handle this thing, 345 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: and it was used in Vietnam so that they could 346 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: conduct how can I gently put this, or that they 347 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: could eradicate other people, Okay, I'll put it to you 348 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: that way. Of course, you know, I didn't have the 349 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: opportunity to fired or anything but this thing had a 350 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: built in suppressor to it, and you might could accomplish 351 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: a significant reduction in sound. But when you're trying to 352 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: defeat literally the sound barrier, first off, you're going to 353 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: have to have something that is subsonic. The round itself 354 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: is going to have to be subsonic. That means that 355 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 1: you don't hear you can hear the explosion of the 356 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: round going off traditionally, all right, that's something that you're 357 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: going to hear. But what you're really hearing, if you've 358 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: got something that's hypersonic, you're hearing the cracking of the 359 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: sound barrier at that point in time. And so that's 360 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: you got a lot going on there, And how can 361 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: you actually facilitate that to the point where you're going 362 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: to redo the sound to that point? There are people 363 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: out there that that have made so called homemade suppressors famously. 364 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: You know, in case I've been covering for years now, 365 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: the piked In, the piked In massacre, they they actually 366 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: manufactured that family actually manufactured homemade homemade suppressors, and they 367 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: can be made out of any number of different types 368 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: of materials. 369 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: And Godfather de Niro used a towel wrapped around the 370 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 3: end of the rifle. 371 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, to kind of muffle the sound, but you're going 372 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: to completely it. Did it did? It did catch fire 373 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: at that moment time, And no, it won't. It doesn't. 374 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: It doesn't have the density. And now it would seem, 375 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, the potato would be dense enough to knock 376 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 1: the sound down. You're not going to accomplish that task. 377 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: And it's it's kind of been I've read reports about 378 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: this case. They've mentioned a thirty eight caliber revolver. I 379 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: saw one publication. I saw another one where they had 380 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: referred to a three to eighty auto. Well, a three 381 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: eighty auto. Yeah, the diameter of the round, that's a caliber. 382 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: The diameter of the round is the same as a 383 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: thirty eight special, but it's not as robust of a 384 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: round three eighty auto. First off, it's a semi automatic. 385 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: It's a very small frame. And in order to get 386 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: a potato, and I can't believe I'm actually saying this, 387 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: but in order to get a potato on the end 388 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: of the muzzle, you would almost have to fit the 389 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: potato onto the end of the barrel and tape it somehow. 390 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: But the problem that you have to defeat with that 391 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: is that if it's a semi automatic handgun, the slide 392 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: is going to go back and forth, so that really 393 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: diminishes it and really does knock down whatever you're trying 394 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: to achieve. Now, whether we're revolver, which is a wheel 395 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: gun that goes around kind of like the whole cowboy pistol, 396 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: what you're going to do, it would be much easier 397 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: because some of these are six inch. This is what 398 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: cops used to carry years ago. They would carry six 399 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: inch Smith and Wesson thirty eight special revolvers, and I 400 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: could see someone potentially carving out of potato and placing 401 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: that over the end of the iron sight. Because if 402 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: you're talking about executing somebody in close proximity, remember this 403 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: poor woman was laying in bed day seven months pregnant. 404 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: The idea is to get close enough to her so 405 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: that you can be within just mere inches of the 406 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: back of her head, and then all of a sudden 407 00:25:45,680 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: you show. The problem with the conspiracy is that it 408 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: takes more than one and in this particular case, I 409 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: think that we have a perfect storm as far as 410 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: the police are concerned. From an investigative perspective, how do 411 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: you put all of these pieces together. How is it 412 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 1: that you can go in and assess this and not 413 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: think that it was someone that was intimately connected to 414 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: this third grade teacher that did this. Going back to 415 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 1: the potato, I can first off, you know, I'd mentioned 416 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: just a moment ago that the questions that the cops 417 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,360 Speaker 1: would initially have. Part of me also wants to know. 418 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: Did they look around and there were particulate bits of Well, 419 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: you don't know what it is, because many times you'll 420 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: have stuff that's commingled with blood, dave, and brain and 421 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: you're looking around, You're thinking, what is this? 422 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 3: You mentioned three eighty versus the thirty eight, And just 423 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 3: so you know, I saw the thirty eight caliber was 424 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: mentioned in some of our newspaper articles, but usgov Justice 425 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 3: dot gov website said it was a three eighty. What 426 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 3: kind of entrance and exit wound are we talking about? 427 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 3: She shot in the head, She's seven months pregnant. I'm 428 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 3: expecting that there's going to be more blood because of 429 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 3: carrying a baby. I don't know why I'm thinking like that, 430 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 3: but is this what is this going to do? The 431 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 3: three eighty in the head? What kind of damage? And 432 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 3: I don't mean to be gross, but it's body backs. 433 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 3: I just want to know what is what is it 434 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 3: going to look like? Is it going to be, is 435 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 3: it going to be everywhere? Is it going to have 436 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 3: blowback going back towards the ceiling? 437 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: Could It all depends on the proximity of the end 438 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: of that muzzle, which, again, and this is to your point, 439 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: is very important here because that potato I still can't 440 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: believe I'm saying this, but that potato is what is 441 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: referred to as an intermediate target. So let's just say, 442 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: for instance, we're standing in a building and somebody and 443 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: we're behind a center block wall, okay, and somebody's firing 444 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: a high velocity round. So like a zero point two 445 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: two three caliber five point five to six millimeter, it 446 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: can penetrate the center blocks and come through. But several 447 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: things change the structure of the bullet. The physical structure 448 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: of the bullet changes because it's passed through an intermediate target. Now, 449 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: obviously a potato and a center center block wall are 450 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: not the same type of surfaces, but surfaces as they are, 451 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: and you can it's going to affect first off, bullet trajectory, 452 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: the flight, also the flight the external ballistics of the 453 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: round as it passes through this this body, this potato, 454 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: and will My guess is, Dave, is that when they 455 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: began to examine her body at autopsy, they would have 456 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: One of the things that we have to do is shave. 457 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: If there's an entrance in the head, we literally shave 458 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 1: that area where the hair is all the way around it. 459 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: We save that hair too, And one of the reasons 460 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: we do is that we're looking for gunshot powder in 461 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: the hair, so we'll save a bit of that hair 462 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: as well. And what you're looking at so that you 463 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: can fully visualize it, is the shape of the entrance wound. 464 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: Is it a circular defect which you see many times 465 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: with gunshot wounds to the head. The head's a tricky 466 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: bit because of the bone structure underlying the scalp, so 467 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: you can have these kind of malform things that occur 468 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: just with the skull itself, but how much more so 469 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: when it's passing through the body of a potato. The 470 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: trajectory is going to change. The pitch and the attitude 471 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: of the round might change. I hate to use the 472 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: term tumbling, but many times bullets will in fact their 473 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: pitch will change, and so you will get perhaps what 474 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: we refer to as a keyhole injury into the head. 475 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: So the tip, if you'll just imagine the tip of 476 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: the bullet slightly rising off of the horizontal plane, so 477 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of pitching up vertical. As that round passes 478 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: through that potato, it can strike the skull. And the 479 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: reason we call it a keyhole is if you think 480 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: about an old skeleton key and where you stick the 481 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: key into that lock, you know, the traditional lock that's 482 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: kind of shaped like a skeleton itself with a little 483 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: head at the top of the bulb, and then it 484 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: kind of blouses out down the entest when we'll look 485 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: like that as opposed to a perfect circle. And so 486 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: you're looking at this and you're scratching your head and saying, 487 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: you know what, did it pass through something? I don't 488 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: see broken glass? Wasn't fired through a door. Well, then 489 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: you go back to the scene and you begin to 490 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: understand that, well, you've got this potentially a potato that's 491 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: blown apart at the scene. It's left behind unless he 492 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: took time to collect it all and leave. And also 493 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: you've got if it's a three eighty you're talking about, 494 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: you're talking about an ejected shell, casing, well, he's taken 495 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: time to sneak up on her because he had access 496 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: to the apartment with a key that was furnished to him. 497 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: Would he have spent enough time in that environment after 498 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: he shot her to collect everything up that was around her. 499 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine under any circumstances you could get every 500 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: bit of the residue that's created by this potato being 501 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: literally pulpified, because that's what's going to happen if this 502 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: scene has passed through by this round. It doesn't matter 503 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: that three eighty is not a real ro bust round, 504 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: because it's not just a bullet that's creating the destruction 505 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: of the potato and the head. It's also the gas 506 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: that explosive of that occurs. And so I cannot imagine 507 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: unless he had it taped up really, really tightly, that 508 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have something left behind. And I would imagine 509 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: that was going to be a key to all of this. 510 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 3: It's unbelievable that we're at this point where police investigators 511 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 3: were able to put this all together fairly quickly. The 512 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 3: boyfriend at the scene calling nine to one one about 513 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 3: his seven months breaking at girlfriend being shot in the head. 514 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 3: They're able to trace his best friend from Oklahoma has 515 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 3: been at his house for a couple of days. They've 516 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 3: got all their proof. And yet, I say all their proof. 517 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 3: They have the outline of what has taken place. But 518 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 3: you mentioned something earlier. You've got a federal crime and 519 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 3: a state crime. You mentioned that there's not a that 520 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 3: federal crimes are just different. And as to how they 521 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 3: charge that, is that making too light of it or not? 522 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 2: That why it took so long? 523 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that that's probably why it took a long. Look, 524 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: you've got two guys, Dave, that are, first off, they're 525 00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: facilitating a conspiracy. 526 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 2: Okay, it is a murder for hire. 527 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 3: It is a murder for hire. And are there two 528 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 3: dead people because of the baby being seven months? 529 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? And that baby at seven months is vible, right, 530 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: it's viable. You can't you can't get past that the 531 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: baby is viable. 532 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 3: How long is that baby after she's shot in the head? 533 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 3: How long could that baby still be viable? 534 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: Couldn't not long? Not long? If I would assume if 535 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: somebody had heard it hopped on nine to eleven and gotten, 536 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: you know, paramedics there very quickly. And I don't know 537 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: how visible, how noticeable her pregnancy, because you know, if 538 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a I'll just let me play this 539 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: out in my mind. If you're dealing with a gunshot 540 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: wound and you show up the scene, you're not examining 541 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: an abdomen. You're not looking at this woman. It's like, gee, 542 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: I wonder if her pregnancy is viable. You don't even 543 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: know she's pregnant. All you know is that you've got 544 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: blood pouring from a defect, which might be an irregular 545 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: defect in her skull. You might have two and your 546 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: idea is to save her life. Theoretically, if they had 547 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: had a team standing by, I guess there could have 548 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: been a chance that that that baby may have survived. 549 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: But it's a moot point because he shot her in 550 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: her bed there in that house, and when he pulled 551 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 1: that trigger, he took two lives at this point in time, 552 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: and back to the federal issue here and again, not 553 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,919 Speaker 1: an attorney, but when you're talking about the principle here, 554 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: this man, if you want to call him a man, 555 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: that would facilitate the execution this poor woman, poor pregnant woman. 556 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: He dave. He got on a train and fled the state. 557 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: He crossed state lines at that point in time. After 558 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: initiating all of this and getting this thing this, you've 559 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: also got them communicating okay as well. This guy's in 560 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: Oklahoma when he's you know, he's setting this whole thing up. 561 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: I am going to pay you with money that I 562 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: have taken from a public fund, because that is a 563 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: public school, and I'm going to hand this over to you. 564 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: It's going to facilitate you coming across state lines into 565 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: the state in order to perpetrate this crime. Then you're 566 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: going to leave the state. Yeah, the Fed's fingerprints would 567 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: be all over this. And here's the thing about the Feds. 568 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: When you enter into that system and you're convicted, they 569 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: have mandatory sentencing. Dave, You're not going to walk out 570 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: the door. You're not. You know, in states, things like 571 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: that can kind of be negotiated a little bit and 572 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: you might get some time off for good behavior. If 573 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: federal judge looks at you and they sentence you, baby, 574 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: let me tell you something. You going in for all 575 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: day long, and that's I think that that's probably what 576 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:44,919 Speaker 1: they're looking at. Dave. 577 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 3: I know the one thing about this that it did 578 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 3: take a number of years Joe that when everything was 579 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 3: said and done, Cornelius Green did plead guilty. He took 580 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 3: a plea deal. And the only way there would be 581 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 3: agreements on this between the state and the federal charges 582 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 3: was that he was going to plead guilty to get 583 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 3: the death penalty off the table. That was his motivate 584 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 3: coordinator is Green. That was his motivation for doing a deal. 585 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 3: The motivation for the state taking the deal was that 586 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: he would be sentenced to prison for the rest of 587 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 3: his life without parole. And that was the negotiation that 588 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 3: took place. And again, neither of us are attorneys, although 589 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 3: we do hang out with a lot of them. It 590 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 3: seems in this particular case, Philip Cutler has pleaded not 591 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 3: guilty to the crime, and Green, as part of his negotiation, 592 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 3: he does not have to testify against Philip Cutler. 593 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: Which in and of itself is amazing to me that 594 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,840 Speaker 1: he could not be compelled to do that. But suffice 595 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: it to say, there will be a day in court 596 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: for Cutler, and it's coming. And I think that it's 597 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 1: really important that we remember that not we were robbed 598 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: of these two lives that night and bed, but also 599 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: these children and that staff that occupied that school were 600 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: robbed of this woman's presence as well. I'm Joseph Scott 601 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Bodybuy