1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: name is Robert. 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 3: Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And after a little bit 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 3: of an interval, we are back with part two in 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 3: our series on pouring oil over troubled waters. 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: That's right to refresh. In the last episode, which I 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: guess was over a week ago, at this point, we 9 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: discussed several interesting mentions from ancient and medieval writings, in 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 2: particular about the interaction between oil and water. We went 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: over to some of the basics about this, and you 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: know the old idea that oil and water don't mix, 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 2: and that oil in water or oil mixed around with 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 2: water can create kind of this novel appearance that captivates 15 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 2: our imagination. And we also discuss how it may have 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: been added to stormy seas to calm them down, and 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: it may have been used in some capacity by free 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: divers to somehow smooth or clear or illuminate the waters 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 2: they're diving in so as to better see what they're 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: looking for. 21 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: Now, that was an issue last time that I was 22 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 3: really confused by because it wasn't even clear to me 23 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: exactly what these ancient authors were claiming. They were saying 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 3: that in some sense a diver might like swim underneath 25 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 3: the water with some oil in their mouth, and then 26 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 3: when they needed to see better, they would like spit 27 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 3: the oil out into the water, or I think you said. 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 3: In some other sources people just talked about like putting 29 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 3: oil over their eyes before they went diving, and I 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: couldn't understand from the original sources. We looked at, like, 31 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 3: what even the alleged method of action was there? You 32 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 3: finally have some answers on this, right. 33 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't know that i'd be able 34 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 2: to bring one hundred percent clarity to the issue. I 35 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: think there's still gonna I think there may still be 36 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: a certain amount of like historical telephone game going on 37 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: with some of these. But I did find a great 38 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: deal of clarity on this in a twenty two only 39 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 2: one book that I picked up titled Neither Letters nor 40 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: Swimming The Rebirth of Swimming and Free Diving by John 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: m mcmanumon. So this is an interesting book where it's 42 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 2: a little harder to get your hands on this one, 43 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: but it's worth picking up if you're interested in the 44 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: history of diving and swimming in general. Oil comes up 45 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: multiple times in the book, sometimes just in general observances 46 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: of waters that were known to contain oil naturally in 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 2: the ancient world. Ancient writers mentioned a spring at Carthage, 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: There's the Laparous River in southern Turkey or what is 49 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: now southern Turkey, and there's also a lake in Ethiopia 50 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: that were singled out, all noted for oil that could 51 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: either be extracted for use. In the case of Carthage, 52 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 2: I think they used it with livestock or just waters 53 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: that had a quote unquote naturally lubricating effect on the swimmer. Mmm. 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 2: Sounds great now, this idea of lubricating yourself for a swim, 55 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: this was this. This was pretty interesting to me because 56 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: I swim several days a week, but I never oil 57 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 2: myself up beforehand. And I don't see anybody else doing 58 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: it either. 59 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I was gonna ask, is that even a 60 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 3: thing anybody does? I don't think so. 61 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: I mean you see cases, certainly, there are cases of 62 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: people lubricating their body with lotions and oils afterwards, or 63 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: you know, something to that effect. But I mean it 64 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: may bee. I don't know if it's anything that has 65 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 2: ever explored, and say, competitive swimming. If it is, I'm 66 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: not aware of it off the top of my head. 67 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: But there are various mentions of oil lubricated swimmers in 68 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: ancient texts. The idea that before you entered the water 69 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: to swim, you'd want to rub your naked body down 70 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 2: with oil, okay, And the reasons for this is, you know, 71 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: seems to vary. So one account, during the Corinthian War 72 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: in the three eighty nine BC, the Athenian forces use 73 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: swimming in against Spartan forces near this place in Egypt, Habatus. 74 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: Apparently the waters they were quite cold, so they rubbed 75 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: themselves down with olive oil beforehand, and they drink a 76 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 2: lot of alcohol before they got into the water. Now, 77 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: McManamon points out that, okay, the oil might have provided 78 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: some insulation that actually helped protect them against the cold, 79 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: but the drinking would have been counterproductive. 80 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 3: Drinking doesn't actually make you warmer. It might make you 81 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 3: feel warmer temporarily, but right, yeah, it doesn't help. 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 2: The general Hannibal is also said to have ordered his 83 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: soldiers to oil themselves down to protect against the cold. 84 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: At the Battle of Trevia River, the first major battle 85 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: of the Second Punic War in two eighteen BCE. So 86 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: in general, there seems to be this idea that like, okay, 87 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: you could protect yourself against the cold by covering yourself 88 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 2: with oil, and then perhaps that would work in the 89 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: water as well. 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 3: Okay. 91 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: Now, on the subject of ancient free diving divers, in 92 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 2: particular in the Persian Gulf and in the waters between 93 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: India and Sri Lanka, McManamon writes that there's a lot 94 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: we don't know about their practices in the ancient world, 95 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: and then they were often working with kind of sketchy 96 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: ideas concerning the nature of oysters. So he mentioned this 97 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: idea that you see written in some of these old 98 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: texts about how oysters have leaders and you have to 99 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 2: take out the first oyster first. You have to find 100 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: the leader, take it out first, and then the rest 101 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: will follow. 102 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: Okay, decapitation strike against the oyster brigade. 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also talk about you need to watch your 104 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: fingers because the oysters may sever the fingers, and mcmamon 105 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: casts a lot of doubt on this. I mean, I 106 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 2: know that there are concerns with certain types of free diving, 107 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: and you know, foraging for various shells and creatures. There 108 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 2: are particular creatures where you do have to potentially worry 109 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: about a you know, finger getting caught or snagged or whatever. 110 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: But in this case McManamon seems to write that it 111 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: was not really But basically it all drives home just 112 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 2: how alien the environment was into which these people were venturing. 113 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: Just think about just how limited you were as you 114 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: gazed down into the water, as you dived into the 115 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: water and tried to find whatever you were looking for. 116 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: So in this particular case they would have likely used grafts, 117 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: which makes sense. And in the case of India and 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: Sri Lanka in particular, there's apparently evidence that they made 119 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: condemned criminals do the work. And I think in general 120 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: it was considered dangerous work and some writings reflect this. 121 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: Whatever the case, the clearer the diving conditions, the better 122 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: to see what you're doing as you go down there 123 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: and to and try and venture into the oyster kingdom. 124 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 2: So mcmamon writes, quote, if the sea was choppy, the 125 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 2: crew would spread oil on its surface to settle it down. 126 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: Modern fishermen use a similar method to improve surface visibility, 127 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: pouring shark oil at times mixed with sand to settle waters. 128 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: So this is the idea that we've discussed already. We're 129 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: going to continue to discuss. The idea here, I believe 130 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: is that friction of the oil on the water surface 131 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: keeps the surface from ruffling or breaking, at least for 132 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: a short period of time. 133 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: The question of the mechanism of how oil colmbs the water, 134 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 3: if it does, is something I'm going to get into 135 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 3: in a paper that I'll discuss in a minute here. 136 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, but in general, it sounds like the idea that 137 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 2: is being expressed here is like if you can make 138 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: the more you can make the surface of the water 139 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: like glass, supposedly through the application of some oil, the 140 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 2: better you can see down into where you're about to 141 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: send your divers, who again are free diving without masks, etc. 142 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: Okay, So in this case it would be a question 143 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 3: of being able to look down into the water from 144 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: the surface and see through it better. 145 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: That's my understanding, Yes, Okay. Now the author also discusses 146 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: a legendary free diver from Italian traditions by the name 147 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: of Cola Pasha Cola the fish in Italian, a Mediterranean 148 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 2: hero whose exploits holding his breath were apparently comparable to Coculon, 149 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: to BeO Wolf, to King Oloffe and others. I often 150 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: don't think about this, but yeah, you have a lot 151 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: of heroes who can really hold their breath for a 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: long time, and you can take that into the modern area. 153 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: I mean, look at Indiana Jones right then he holds 154 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: his breath on that submarine or does he get in 155 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: the submarine? 156 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 3: Oh wait, I know what you're talking about now. Yeah. 157 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: Anyway, in this particular case, this is an oral tradition 158 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 2: that was written down by medieval chroniclers during the twelfth century. 159 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 2: He said to have had various adventures and was said 160 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 2: to spend so much time in the water that he 161 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: would die if he stayed on land for too long. 162 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: So more fish than man in some ways. It's certainly 163 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: a tall tale, to be sure, but writings about him 164 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: do contain some insight into the use of oil in 165 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 2: free diving. Quote. While diving, Cola followed the ancient and 166 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: releasing oil into the water column in order to see better. 167 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: Sicilian fishermen still use that technique, especially when they are 168 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 2: hunting octopi in the profound Abyss of the Straits of Messina. 169 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,719 Speaker 2: Cola reported to the sovereign that he had seen mountains 170 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 2: and valleys, woods and fields and trees with edible fruit. 171 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 3: So like another kingdom, just like we have on land, 172 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: but under the waves. 173 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: Exactly, which is something we've discussed before in terms of 174 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 2: how previous generations thought about the world underwater. And I 175 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: like that there's also kind of a I mean, there's 176 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: a hint of truth to this as well, like he's 177 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: reporting that, hey, underneath the water, there's actually a robust ecosystem. Now, 178 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: whether it's actually woods and fields and trees with edible fruit, 179 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: well obviously not, but there is in a sense this 180 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: rich other world down there that you can imagine a 181 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: free diver being able to attest to. 182 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 3: So this passage is not just talking about putting oil 183 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: in the surface, but actually releasing oil down underneath the 184 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 3: water when you are down there, and again that helping 185 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 3: to see. But this passage doesn't say why that would 186 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 3: work if it did, right. 187 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 2: And I wish again, I wish I could have one 188 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: hundred percent clarity on this particular angle. I haven't found anything. 189 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: It's worth noting that there are multiple factors that contribute 190 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: to decreased visibility underwater and you have particles in the water, 191 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: You have salinity gradients, temperature gradients, organic particles, just you 192 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: know issues of light and you know where the sun 193 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: is positioned in the sky and how much light you're 194 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 2: getting in a particular volume of water. Interestingly, I was 195 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 2: reading that you know sometimes there's a visible layer between 196 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 2: thermoclines that look like the smoothness of an oil schine. 197 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 2: So I couldn't help but wonder if that might factor 198 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: into some of this, like things that may be encountered 199 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: underwater that have the feel or look of oil separation. Now, 200 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 2: another interesting bit here on medieval pearl divers. Mcmanumon has 201 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 2: some interesting information on oil use from the Arabic world 202 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: of the time, and I'm going to read a longer 203 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 2: quote here and warning that it is a little bit 204 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: graphic as it includes mention of alleged body modification for 205 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: the purposes of free diving. Quote. Pearl divers attempted to 206 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: eliminate the pain in their ears and block their nostrils. 207 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: They ruptured their own ear drum and knew they had 208 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 2: succeeded when blood flowed out. They soaked cotton in oil 209 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 2: and inserted it into their ears. The technique had an 210 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: added benefit on the bottom. As the oil leaked out 211 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: and floated up, it clarified the water column by allowing 212 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 2: greater light to penetrate. For the nostrils, pearl divers had 213 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 2: various options. They could plug the openings with small balls 214 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: carved from a tortoise shell and use a cloth soaked 215 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: in oil like the ones used in the ears. Alternatively, 216 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 2: they could wear a clip over the outside of their nostrils, 217 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 2: carved from ivory or horn or tortoise shell. The stated 218 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: purpose of blocking the nostrils was to keep water out, 219 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: but it may also have aided in equalizing pressure in 220 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: the sinuses. And years professional free divers still use a 221 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: nose clip, and he also mentions this at a later 222 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: point in the book as well, attributing the oil soaked 223 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: cotton swabs in one's ears as being protective but also 224 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: kind of having this side effect of like, well, and 225 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: as the oil leaks out, you're only going to see 226 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 2: better down there. 227 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 3: HM. 228 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 2: So I think I think all of you, even though 229 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 2: again not one hundred percent clarity on all this, but 230 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: I think some of these examples are telling. On one hand, 231 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: they provide a little more insight into what some of 232 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 2: these accounts we're talking about concerning free divers bringing down 233 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: oil in their mouths or even in the around their eyes. 234 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: We also see plenty of examples where humans would have 235 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: had a chance to witness oil interacting with water whilst swimming. 236 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: You know, this idea of Okay, if we had some 237 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: sort of tradition of oiling your body up before you 238 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 2: go in, then perhaps you're bringing that information with you. 239 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: If there is some practice about, you know, calming the 240 00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: water at the surface of the water so as to 241 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: better seed down, then that can easily be translated into 242 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: this idea of like we'll bring oil down with you 243 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: and make that clear as well. So, yeah, I think 244 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: there's still some mysteries remaining here, but I think I 245 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 2: can maybe sort of glimpse the shape of the thing 246 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 2: a little better. 247 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 3: Okay, Well, even if the answer is still a bit elusive, 248 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: I think valued effort at digging there. 249 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: We may have to come back to this particular book 250 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: in the future. He has a lot of great information 251 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: about like early ideas and developments in the creation of 252 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: like actual goggles and masks that would enable people to 253 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 2: eventually see under the water with the kind of clarity 254 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: they were clearly reaching for. 255 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we could do some invention coverage on old 256 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 3: school diving helmets, which are beautiful. 257 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 2: Now. I believe in the first episode we warned that 258 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 2: there would be been from that Ben Franklin would pop 259 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 2: up in this topic. So let's let's I see him. 260 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: There is Okay, he's here. He does. He frequently pops 261 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 2: up on the show, especially in our invention episodes. Occasionally 262 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: you didn't know that you were going to have Ben 263 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 2: Franklin content, but then he appears. 264 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: That's right. So Benjamin Franklin often known as one of 265 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 3: the so called founding fathers of the United States. Uh, 266 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 3: he was an early American I don't even know what 267 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 3: what what are? What's the order that you put the 268 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 3: things he did when you say what he was, he 269 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: was an early American uh statesman, author, businessman, uh, scientist, inventor, 270 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 3: he kind of did everything. 271 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, just kind of a general American polymath and weird guy, 272 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: you know, an Enlightenment thinker that had a great deal 273 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: of curiosity about the world and and entertained those curiosities. 274 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 3: Now specifically in the domain of science. Benjamin Franklin, I 275 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: think is best known for his experiments with electricity, and 276 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: this would include experiments with the storage and discharge of 277 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 3: electrical potential in what we now call a battery after 278 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 3: Franklin's terminology, like the Franklin battery was made by putting 279 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 3: together a series of a pre existing invention called a 280 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: Leiden jar, and he could He's like, oh wow, you 281 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: can really like stack these things up and really pack 282 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: a punch with the energy you're storing. One of these 283 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 3: battery experiments I know we've talked about on the show 284 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: before because of its weirdness, was the electrocution of a 285 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: turkey for a holiday dinner, which he then said was 286 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: to be roasted upon an electric jack after it was electrocuted. 287 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: But for some reason, Franklin believed that this would make 288 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: the meat especially tender and succulent if he used electricity 289 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: from one of his batteries to kill the thing, but 290 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 3: he ended up badly shocking himself while attempting this. But 291 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 3: on the broader subject of electricity, Franklin's electrical research also 292 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 3: entailed work in support of the hypothesis that lightning was 293 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 3: in fact a form of electricity, was a type of 294 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: electrical discharge and Franklin was not the first person to 295 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: make this connection, but did important work investigating it. The 296 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 3: most famous anecdote here, of course, is the one the 297 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 3: kite and key experiment, which is in a way of 298 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: disputed historical status. Franklin apparently never described himself doing this 299 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: experiment in any of his letters, though I think he 300 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: sort of described the experiment in some writing as a 301 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 3: kind of hypothetical, like this is an experiment one could do, 302 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 3: though after his death people did say that he himself 303 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 3: had carried it out. If he did do it, it 304 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: would have been probably in June of seventeen fifty two. However, 305 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 3: Franklin was correct about lightning being a form of electrical discharge, 306 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 3: and this led to his advocacy of the use of 307 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: sharpened iron lightning rods to protect buildings during storms. And 308 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: this is kind of a tangent, but one I got 309 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 3: interested in while reading about Franklin's lightning rod research for 310 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 3: this episode, I wanted to share a paragraph I came 311 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 3: across from an article from the Franklin Institute, which is 312 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 3: a museum of Benjamin Franklin's life and work in Philadelphia, 313 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 3: where they write quote Franklin began to advocate lightning rods 314 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 3: that had sharp points. His English colleagues favored blunt tipped 315 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: lightning rods, reasoning that sharp ones attracted lightning and increased 316 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: the risk of strikes. They thought blunt rods were less 317 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 3: likely to be struck. King George the Third had his 318 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: palace equipped with a blunt lightning rod. When it came 319 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 3: time to equip the colony's buildings with lightning rods, the 320 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 3: decision became a political statement. The favored pointed lightning rod 321 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: expressed support for Franklin's theories of protecting public buildings and 322 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 3: the rejection of theories supported by the king. The English 323 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 3: thought this was just another way for the flourishing colonies 324 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 3: to be disobedient to them. And I thought this was 325 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: funny because it's an eighteenth century example of a pure 326 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 3: scientific question, just like what's the ideal shape of a 327 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: lightning rod? Where really all we should care about is 328 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 3: what is the correct answer of this question? Being politicized? Now, 329 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 3: which answer you favor has political connotations, and there is 330 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 3: political pressure to think a certain way about it. 331 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: Well, who is right? Is it the American way or 332 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 2: the British way? 333 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 3: It seems in a way they were both wrong, but 334 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 3: it seems like the English had the better. The blunt 335 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 3: lightning rods were better overall, according to modern research. I 336 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 3: looked up there has been modern research on this, so 337 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: I found a paper by Moore, Awlick and Risin in 338 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 3: the Journal of Applied Meteorology and Climatology in the year 339 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 3: two thousand and three, where they say, quote, an examination 340 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 3: of the relevant physics shows that very strong electric fields 341 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 3: are required above the tips of rods in order that 342 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 3: they function as strike but that the gradients of the 343 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 3: field strength over sharp tipped rods are so great that 344 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 3: at distances of a few millimeters, the local fields are 345 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 3: often too weak for the development of upward going streamers. 346 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 3: In field tests, rods with rounded tips have been found 347 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: to be better strike receptors than were nearby sharp tipped rods. 348 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 3: Though it gets kind of complicated, so they say overall, 349 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 3: if you're trying to attract your lightning strikes to these rods, 350 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 3: the blunt ones are better. But as they explained in 351 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 3: the paper, Franklin's idea was that the purpose of a 352 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 3: sharp tipped lightning rod was not to attract lightning, but 353 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 3: to prevent lightning by allowing thunderclouds to sort of silently 354 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 3: and gently discharge electricity down to the rod without actually 355 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 3: allowing a violent lightning strike to occur at all. Of course, 356 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 3: it was later recognized that a lightning rod could be 357 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 3: useful by providing just a conductive pathway to the ground, 358 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: rather than simply letting the lightning find its own way 359 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 3: to the ground through the structure of the building, which 360 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 3: would be a lot more destructive. So the authors of 361 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 3: this paper say that lightning rods don't actually discharge thunderclouds gently. 362 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 3: Franklin was wrong in thinking that would happen, they say, 363 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 3: quote it is now recognized that the sole function of 364 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 3: a lightning rod is to be the receptor or interceptor 365 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 3: of strikes for a lightning protection system that conducts lightning 366 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 3: discharges to the earth without damage to the structure on 367 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 3: which the system is mounted. So I would say Franklin 368 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: was correct about the nature of lightning being electrical. He 369 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: was correct that lightning rods were a good idea. He 370 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: was incorrect in part about how they worked. They don't 371 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 3: actually gently discharge lightning without a strike occurring, And he 372 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: was probably incorrect about the ideal design parameters because the 373 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 3: blunt rods, it seems are better. But also, if you'll remember, 374 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 3: it seems like the English were also wrong because it 375 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 3: said that they thought the blunt rods were less likely 376 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 3: to be struck, and they're actually better because they're more 377 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: likely to be struck. So I thought that was interesting. 378 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: But anyway, we should come back to a different scientific question, 379 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 3: the one of today's episode. This was a different question 380 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: that captured Franklin's attention, and so I want to cite 381 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 3: a twenty thirteen historical science paper by Wang Stieglitz, Mardin, 382 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 3: and tam in the Biophysical Journal, published in the year 383 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,959 Speaker 3: twenty thirteen called Benjamin Franklin, Philadelphia's favorite Son was a 384 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 3: membrane biophysicist. So here's the biographical context. In the year 385 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 3: seventeen fifty seven, the American House of Assembly in Philadelphia 386 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 3: sent Benjamin Franklin as an envoy to King George the 387 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 3: Second of Great Britain, and Franklin was traveling on one 388 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: of a fleet of ninety six ships that set out 389 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 3: to cross the Atlantic, departing from New York Harbor. Early 390 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,439 Speaker 3: in their journey, the fleet hit some bad ways. There 391 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 3: were high winds and heavy waves, and the paper doesn't 392 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 3: mention this, but I will say I've read in other 393 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: sources that Franklin was very interested in storms and would 394 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: sometimes chase storms on horseback. So I kind of wonder 395 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 3: if he was out on deck observing the bad weather 396 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 3: with joyful curiosity while everybody else is vomiting. I don't know, 397 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 3: but whatever he was doing, he at some point made 398 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 3: an observation. He looked out at the rest of the fleet, 399 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 3: and he observed that a couple of the ships in 400 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,239 Speaker 3: the fleet appeared to be sailing much more smoothly than 401 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 3: the rest. Everybody else is pitching back and forth violently 402 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 3: in the waves, and a couple looked like, for some 403 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 3: reason they weren't. They were just kind of cruising along smoothly. 404 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 3: And Franklin mentioned this to the captain of his ship, 405 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 3: and the captain said to him, apparently thinking that he 406 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 3: was stupid for even asking this question, the captain said, 407 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 3: the cooks have, I suppose, been just emptying their greasy 408 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 3: water through the scuppers, which has greased the sides of 409 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: those ships a little, as if this was obvious, and 410 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 3: explained it totally, because, as we talked about in the 411 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: last episode, it had long been common knowledge among sailors 412 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 3: that oil or grease would calm the waves. 413 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: All right, Well, now Ben Franklin has been tipped off 414 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 2: and is on the case right. 415 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 3: Right, He's like, Oh, I need to get me some 416 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 3: of that rancid cooking grease. Figure out what's so special 417 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 3: about it. So the authors of the paper here they 418 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 3: go over some of the things we talked about in 419 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 3: the previous episode that since ancient times, authors have mentioned 420 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: this here and there, this practice of pouring oil, sometimes 421 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 3: olive oil, on top of the sea to calm the 422 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 3: waters during storms. Remember that. Though we don't have Aristotle's 423 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 3: original writing on this subject, the Roman historian Plutarch attributed 424 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: a view to Aristotle that quote, the oil produces calm 425 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 3: by smoothing the water's surface so that wind can slip 426 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 3: over it without making an impression. So when the captain 427 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 3: told Franklin this, he's like, oh, yeah, they emptied. They're 428 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 3: nasty grease into the water after they're done cooking, and 429 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 3: then and it's greasing the side of the ship and 430 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 3: the water around it, So that's making the waves calm. 431 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 3: Franklin suspected that this explanation was wrong. He doubted that 432 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 3: greasing the outside of the ship would actually calm the 433 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 3: water around it. But the observation captured his curiosity, especially 434 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: since it reminded him of experiences playing with wax in 435 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 3: his father's soap factory when he was ten years old. 436 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 3: And he observed the same phenomenon several more times during 437 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 3: voyages across the ocean, so he decided at some point 438 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 3: that he should make experiments to better understand this. He 439 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 3: finally got around to it twelve years later in seventeen 440 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 3: sixty nine, during another visit to Great Britain. So Franklin 441 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 3: was staying in an area called Clapham Common in South London, 442 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 3: and together with a friend of his name, Christopher Baldwin, 443 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 3: Franklin made his way to a local pond and started 444 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: just dumping oil in it. To quote from Franklin's own 445 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 3: description of his experiments at the lanth Being at Clapham 446 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 3: where there is on the common a large pond, which 447 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 3: I observe to be one day very rough with the wind, 448 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 3: I fetched out a cruet of oil, and just a note. 449 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: A crue it is like a small flask or carafe 450 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 3: with a stopper on top, which you might use to 451 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 3: store olive oil or vinegar or lemon juice at a 452 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 3: dining table, a sort of you can think of it 453 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,439 Speaker 3: as like, you know, you taco bell sauce packet, but 454 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: a rigid caraf. 455 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: Okay, that's good that we know how much oil, because 456 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: I think, as we discussed in the first episode, like 457 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: there's this one tail where it sounds like it's a 458 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 2: magic potion's worth of oil. Other cases it sounds like 459 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: you're talking about, like, yeah, dumping out all the kitchens 460 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: excess oil. So there's always this question of like, how 461 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: much oil are we talking about here? 462 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 3: This is going to be a fairly small amount of oil. 463 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 3: I think I've seen it described in the tablespoon range. Okay, 464 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 3: but so Franklin says, I fetched out a cruet of 465 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: oil and dropped a little of it on the water. 466 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 3: I saw it spread itself with surprising swiftness upon the surface, 467 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 3: and there the oil, though not more than a teaspoonful. 468 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 3: Oh Okay, so he says, a teaspoonful here produced an 469 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 3: instant calm over a space several yards square, which spread 470 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 3: amazingly and extended itself gradually till it reached the lee side, 471 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 3: making all that quarter of the pond, perhaps half an acre, 472 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: as smooth as a looking glass. The oil layer was 473 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 3: so thin as to produce the prismatic colors for a 474 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 3: considerable space, and beyond them so much thinner as to 475 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 3: be invisible except in its effect of smoothing the waves 476 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 3: at a much greater distance. So this is a very 477 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 3: simple experiment, simply pouring oil out over the surface of 478 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 3: a pond in windy weather. But out of this very 479 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 3: simple experiment Franklin got several interesting observations. So one is 480 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: that a tiny container of oil spreads out over a 481 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 3: shockingly vast area on the surface of the water. And 482 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 3: the second thing was it seemed true in the park 483 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 3: where the oil spread, the water no longer rippled in 484 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 3: the wind, but became, in his words, as smooth as 485 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: a looking glass, smooth as a mirror. But what if 486 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: the effect was just something about this pond in particular? 487 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 3: Franklin knew that you should repeat an experiment under different 488 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 3: circumstances to see if you get the same result or 489 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 3: a different one, So he wrote quote after this, I 490 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 3: contrived to take with me whenever I went into the 491 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 3: country a little oil in the upper hollow of my 492 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 3: bamboo cane with which I might repeat the experiment as 493 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 3: opportunities should offer, and I found it constantly to succeed. 494 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 3: So I'm thinking of him a little bit like Gandalf, 495 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 3: sort of wandering through the shires, stupefying the Hobbits by 496 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 3: pouring oil on water out of his staff. 497 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 2: I guess so. But this makes me I ask all 498 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 2: sorts of questions about his cane. Did he always have 499 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: a secret compartment in his cane for some sort of 500 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 2: a flask or vial of some substance? And if so, 501 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: what usually goes in there? Is this like you have 502 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 2: a little bit of alcohol? Or is there is this 503 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: you put some poison in there? I mean, there's so 504 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: many questions about this bamboo cane. 505 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, what did he have in there when he was 506 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 3: not wandering the shire? Yeah? 507 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: Or maybe he had it specially. I mean, it's like 508 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: all these options around the table with Benjamin Franklin. I 509 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 2: can also easily imagine, from what we've read of the man, 510 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: him going into the cane shop and say, look, I 511 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 2: need to oil down some ponds in the as I 512 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 2: travel around, and I don't want to just carry it 513 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: on my person. I want to have it secreted away 514 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 2: within my bamboo cane. I would like to commission such 515 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 2: a bamboo cane. And they're like, all right, yeah, we 516 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: can do that for you. 517 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 3: Right, So then he crosses commissioned secret grease cane off 518 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 3: of his daily to do list. Well, anyway, so after 519 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 3: a while he'd observed this effect a lot of times, 520 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 3: and in trying to interpret the results, Franklin observed a 521 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: distinction between how oil behaves when you drop it onto 522 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: a solid surface versus onto the surface of water. He says, 523 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 3: if you put a drop of oil on a table 524 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 3: made of marble, or a table made of wood, or 525 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: on a mirror glass that's lying horizontal, the drop just 526 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 3: remains in place as a drop. It pretty much keeps 527 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 3: the same shape. It doesn't spread out. But on the 528 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 3: surface of water it spreads. There is a dramatically different behavior. 529 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 3: It's not just a little different, like a single drop 530 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 3: of oil will spread over a vast area. I remember, 531 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 3: he said, the pond in England. It was about a 532 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 3: tea spoonful and that went to like a half acre. 533 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: Wow. 534 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: So Franklin wrote, quote, if there be a mutual repulsion 535 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: between the particles of oil and no attraction between oil 536 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 3: and water. Oil dropped on water will not be held 537 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 3: together by adhesion to the spot whereon it falls. It 538 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 3: will be at liberty to expand itself, and it will 539 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 3: spread on a surface that, besides being smooth to the 540 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 3: most perfect degree of polish, prevents, perhaps by repelling the oil, 541 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: all immediate contact, keeping it at a minute distance from itself, 542 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 3: and the expansion will continue till the mutual repulsion between 543 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 3: the particles of the oil is weakened and reduced to 544 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 3: nothing by their distance. And while, of course Franklin believed 545 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: there to be a natural repulsion between oil and water, 546 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 3: he thought that there was no natural repulsion between water 547 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 3: and air, so the water and air could freely contact 548 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 3: one another, and that was why he thought it may 549 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 3: be stilled the waves. So we'll come back to a 550 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 3: slightly different explanation of how it stills the waves in 551 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 3: a minute. But first there's another interesting consequence of this experiment. 552 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 3: The concept of a molecule had not yet taken root 553 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 3: during Franklin's life. Franklin wouldn't have known what a molecule was, 554 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 3: but the author's right that what Franklin had actually created 555 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 3: here on the surface of the water was a monomolecular 556 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 3: layer of oil quote, which eventually expanded into a two 557 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 3: dimensional gas of oil molecules at the air water interface. 558 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 3: But what he had done is create a layer of 559 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 3: oil one molecule thick. That's what happens when you allow 560 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 3: oil to spread out without boundary on the surface of water. 561 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: And so Franklin never made this next step, but later 562 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 3: scientists observed that you could use exactly this experiment to 563 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 3: calculate the height of a single molecule of oil because 564 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 3: you already know two things. You know the starting volume 565 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 3: of oil, and then when you drop it on water, 566 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 3: you can wait for it to spread out completely into 567 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 3: a monolayer and then measure the area of the oil. 568 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 3: So if you know this starting volume and then the 569 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 3: area that it spreads out to, you can calculate the 570 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 3: thickness of the single molecule layer. 571 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 572 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 3: If Franklin had thought to do this, and they say 573 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 3: that he would have been able to mathematically, he apparently 574 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 3: just didn't. It didn't occur to him to do this. 575 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 3: He could have come up with the first roughly accurate 576 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 3: estimate of the size of a molecule in history, and 577 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 3: he would have been one hundred years ahead of the 578 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 3: actual first people to do this. So one of the 579 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 3: later scientists who did make this kind of calculation was 580 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 3: the British mathematician and physicist Lord Rayleigh, who lived eighteen 581 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 3: forty two to nineteen nineteen, and he realized that the 582 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 3: spreading of the molecules of oil across the surface of 583 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 3: water would illuminate the question of what he called molecular 584 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 3: magnitudes the size of an oil molecule. So he did 585 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 3: experiments of putting olive oil in a sponge bath to 586 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 3: calculate the size of a molecule of triolene, which is 587 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 3: a main component of olive oil, and he put it 588 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 3: after his measurements at sixteen point three angstroms and angstrm 589 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 3: is one ten billionth of a meter. And this calculation 590 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 3: was close, but was still a little bit off, and 591 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 3: it was improved by the contributions of a German self 592 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 3: taught chemist named Agnes Pockels who lived eighteen sixty two 593 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 3: to nineteen thirty five. She had performed similar experiments on 594 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 3: her own before Lord Rayleigh, and she had done them 595 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: in her own kitchen at the counter. She was not 596 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 3: formally trained in science. She was an autodidact, and when 597 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 3: she saw his paper in eighteen ninety, she contacted him 598 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 3: with her own results, which had been hers had been 599 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 3: accomplished with the help of an instrument that she had 600 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 3: invented for measuring surface tension, which helped get a better 601 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 3: calculation of the thickness of the oil. And with her 602 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 3: method she measured the thickness of a single oil molecule, 603 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 3: or the sorry not just the oil, the triolene molecule, 604 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 3: the main component of the olive oil. She measured that 605 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 3: to thirteen angstroms, and this in turn led Raley to 606 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: improve his own measurements. And then later the American physicist 607 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 3: Irving Langmuir came along to do definitive work on oil 608 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 3: film chemistry, and when he did that, he did so 609 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 3: with the help of a surface tension measuring device which 610 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 3: was similar to the instrument that Agnes Pockles had already 611 00:33:54,520 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: invented in the nineteenth century. But anyway, why did the 612 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,479 Speaker 3: oil actually calm the waves? What is going on when 613 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 3: the waves stop rippling in water where there's an oil 614 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 3: monolayer on top. The authors of this paper suggest that 615 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,280 Speaker 3: the best explanation is the one offered by Lord Rayleigh, 616 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: So I'm going to read from Lord Raleigh. Here. He wrote, 617 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 3: let us consider small waves as propagated over the surface 618 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: of clean water. As the waves advance, the surface of 619 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 3: the water has to submit to periodic extensions and contractions. 620 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 3: At the crest of the wave, the surface is compressed, 621 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 3: while the trough it is extended. As long as the 622 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 3: water is pure, there is no force to oppose that, 623 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 3: and the wave can be propagated without difficulty. But if 624 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 3: the surface be contaminated, the contamination strongly resists the alternating 625 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 3: stretching and contraction. It tends always on the contrary, to 626 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 3: spread itself uniformly, and the result is that the water 627 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 3: refuses to lend itself to the motion which is required 628 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 3: of it. The film of oil may be compared to 629 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 3: an inextensible membrane, membrane that can't stretch, floating on the 630 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 3: surface of the water and hampering its motion. And under 631 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 3: these conditions it is not possible for the waves to 632 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 3: be generated unless the forces are very much greater than usual. So, 633 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 3: if I'm understanding this correctly, it seems to me what 634 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 3: he's saying is that the oil, because of its hydrophobic 635 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 3: chemical reaction with the water, with its and with itself. 636 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 3: It strongly prefers to stretch out into this single molecule 637 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 3: thick layer. And if this oil really wants to become 638 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 3: and then stay a layer that's a single molecule thick, 639 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 3: that means it can't really stretch any thinner unless the 640 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 3: force of the waves is so strong that the oil 641 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 3: slick is actually ripped apart, and it repels being contracted 642 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 3: to become any thicker. Since it resists becoming more than 643 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 3: a molecule thick, so it resists any wave motion at 644 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 3: the surface. Though of course, at some point waves could 645 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 3: become so powerful that they would override the hydrophobic chemical 646 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 3: forces that caused this phenomenon. So it only works up 647 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 3: to a certain point. 648 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,440 Speaker 2: And yet you might ask, well, could we stop a 649 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 2: hurricane with it? This actually is something that I found 650 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: discussed in a paper from two thousand and five. This 651 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 2: is it's titled a Note concerning the light Hill Sandwich 652 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 2: Model of Tropical Cyclones. The authors here are Baron Blatt, Chorin, 653 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 2: and Pros Taukashan. These three individuals would be Alexander Chorin, 654 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 2: a Berkeley computational fluid mechanics expert Russian mathematician Grigory Baron 655 00:36:53,920 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 2: Blatt and VM Takashin. So they seem to be individuals 656 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 2: who are very well established in their field here and 657 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 2: I looked at this paper and I tried to look 658 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 2: at the paper that it came before it, that they're 659 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 2: kind of this is kind of an addendum too. It's 660 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 2: very technical paper, full of equations and whatnot. But in 661 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 2: this a note concerning the light Hill Sandwich model of 662 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 2: tropical cyclones, they suggest that that oil spread on the 663 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 2: surface of water could potentially prevent the formation of quote 664 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 2: turbulence dampening ocean spray droplets. The idea here being that 665 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 2: while there's a lot going on in a hurricane, quote, 666 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 2: flow acceleration in an ocean spray that carries large water 667 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 2: droplets unquote is part of the whole scenario, and if 668 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 2: one could, you know, theoretically curtail flow acceleration by droplets, 669 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 2: it might have an impact on the storm's overall strength. 670 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to read what the authors wrote here on 671 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 2: the matter. Quote. In the present work, we demonstrated that 672 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 2: the mechanism of turbulent suppression by water droplets in the 673 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 2: ocean spray can substantially accelerate the flow, so that the 674 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,280 Speaker 2: speeds of wind characteristic of the strongest hurricanes can be reached. 675 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 2: The complete mathematical model, taking into account both thermal effects 676 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: and Coriola's force can now be constructed in the form 677 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 2: that allows effective numerical calculations. Note that a model of 678 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 2: dust storms taking into account the thermal effects was proposed 679 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 2: in reference seven. Furthermore, the effects of particles on the 680 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 2: dynamics of tornadoes can be studied by similar meats. Anyway, 681 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 2: they get to the conclusion here, they say, in conclusion, 682 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 2: we want to make a comment. Since antiquity seamen have 683 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 2: had barrels of oil on the decks of their vessels 684 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: and thrown the oil on the sea surface in critical 685 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 2: moments of stormy weather, we think that the action of 686 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 2: oil was exactly the prevention of the formation of droplets. 687 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 2: The turbulence was restored after the oil was dropped, the 688 00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 2: turbulent drag was increased, and the intensity of the squall 689 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 2: was reduced. Possibly, hurricanes can be similarly prevented or dampened 690 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 2: by having airplanes deliver fast, decaying harmless surfactants to the 691 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 2: right places on the sea surface. 692 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 3: Okay, So, a surfactant is a substance that reduces the 693 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 3: surface tension of water when you when you or of 694 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 3: any liquid, I guess when you add it to the water. 695 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 3: So soap is a surfactant, and it increases the wetting 696 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 3: properties of water. It causes water to less want to 697 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 3: cling to itself and more to spread out over whatever. 698 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,359 Speaker 2: Now, I do want to stress that this proposal here 699 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: is very much based in mathematical modeling, and you have 700 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 2: to sort of you have to take it with that 701 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 2: in consideration. On top of that, we have to to 702 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 2: mention that, Yeah, there have been various methods that have 703 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 2: been brought up over the years as possible means of 704 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 2: dampening hurricanes or preventing hurricanes, or stopping a hurricane and 705 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 2: its growth. None of these I think has really proven 706 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 2: to be effective. We're not actually doing any of those 707 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 2: those things. I mean, we're there are things we know 708 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 2: that we could do in the world a large scale 709 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 2: to prevent hurricanes from becoming worse in the years ahead, 710 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 2: and we're not necessarily doing all of those either. So, 711 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,399 Speaker 2: but you know, nobody wants to to change their lives. 712 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 2: They want they want the really quick means of stopping 713 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 2: the hurricane some dynamic idea, something you can drop out 714 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 2: of an airplane or so forth. But still I don't know. 715 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: The modeling here is is is interesting and it's it's 716 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 2: neat to see this more modern, like very technical approach 717 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 2: to trying to figure out the same thing that Benjamin 718 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 2: Franklin was pondering over, and that the the the ancients, uh, 719 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 2: in many cases just took as fact you have you 720 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,439 Speaker 2: have turbulent seas well, throw a little oil in there 721 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 2: and that's going to calm things down. 722 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,919 Speaker 3: It would be very very interesting if this worked, though, though. 723 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 3: I just pulled up a New Scientist article that was 724 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 3: covering this paper that consulted somebody else in the field. 725 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 3: They consulted Julian Hunt at the University College London, who 726 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 3: just said, quote, I am very doubtful about this approach. 727 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, And again even the authors themselves are pointing out 728 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 2: that they're taking the various factors involved in the growth 729 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 2: of a hurricane and reducing it to this one area. 730 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 2: So this is not a solution that would seem to 731 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 2: take everything into account. But just concerning this one aspect 732 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,800 Speaker 2: of storm strength building up. 733 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,400 Speaker 3: I guess this does raise different questions because if you 734 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 3: go back to in part one we talked about that 735 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 3: story from the Venerable Bead about I think the deal 736 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 3: was a bishop gave a priest, so like King Oswy 737 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 3: sent out a priest to bring his bride home from Kent, 738 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 3: and then there was a bishop who gave a bottle 739 00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 3: of oil, almost as if it was a magical potion, 740 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 3: to the priest and said, hey, you know, when you 741 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 3: get out on the sea, if there if there's a storm, 742 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,760 Speaker 3: you pour this oil on the water and it'll calm 743 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 3: the storm. And so that raises two different interpretations. One 744 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 3: could be like, oh, is he just talking about the 745 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 3: thing that is in a way. I mean, I don't 746 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 3: know how well it would really work on a large 747 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 3: scale around a boat, but there is at least experimental 748 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,720 Speaker 3: evidence that you pour oil on waters and somewhat will 749 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,399 Speaker 3: calm waves. Is that all that this story is talking about? 750 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 3: Or should we take it in the broader sense of 751 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 3: it will actually stop the storm, like it will affect 752 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 3: the weather coming from above and the winds. 753 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in so many of these accounts, you're 754 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,919 Speaker 2: dealing with retellings of the thing. And even though even 755 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 2: though bed was was maybe not too many degrees away 756 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 2: from the actual account. Yeah, it's easy to imagine how 757 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 2: the story could could be exaggerated, you know, the calming 758 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 2: of the waters to the overall you know, calming of 759 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 2: the storm in the same way that perhaps an effect 760 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 2: that makes the surface of the water more like glass 761 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 2: so that you can see down into it. Could I'm 762 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: and I'm guessing here potentially be you know, further exaggerated 763 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 2: into making the entire water column illuminated and diveable in 764 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 2: a way that you can easily find what you're looking 765 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 2: for in the depths. But this is all what I 766 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 2: think makes the topic so fascinating because it, you know, 767 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 2: it seems to be this realm where this some it 768 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 2: seems on one hand that this could not be. This 769 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 2: seems like, surely this is just fable. But on the 770 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 2: other hand, we do see, you know, some of the 771 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,920 Speaker 2: science at play here. We can see like why it 772 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,799 Speaker 2: works at least to some degree. So it's it's it 773 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 2: kind of has a has a foot in both worlds. 774 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, I think this has been a delightful ramble 775 00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 3: around the countryside with a bit of oil in our 776 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 3: bamboo cane. 777 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, all right, Well, We're gonna go ahead and close 778 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,839 Speaker 2: out this episode and this exploration, but we'll be back 779 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 2: with more episodes in the future. Here core episodes of 780 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 781 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 2: We have our listener mail episodes on Mondays, short form 782 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,360 Speaker 2: Monster Factor Artifact episode on Wednesdays, and on Fridays. We 783 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 2: set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a 784 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 2: weird film on Weird House Cinema. Let's see what else 785 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 2: do we need to mention. If you are a listener 786 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,239 Speaker 2: in the UK and you're still getting these episodes, I 787 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 2: don't know how much longer that's gonna be the case. 788 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 2: So as we've been trying to stress, go out there 789 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 2: and find the Stuff to Blow your Mind UK feed 790 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 2: on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify and subscribe there. That 791 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 2: way you can make sure that you're going to keep 792 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 2: getting these episodes. 793 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 3: It's the same thing. You get the same episodes as 794 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 3: published in the other feed. It's just called Stuff to 795 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 3: Blow your Mind UK. But that's all you gotta do. 796 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 3: Just go sign up for that one. Much thanks to 797 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 3: our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If you would like 798 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 3: to get in touch with us with feedback on this 799 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 3: episode or any other, to suggest topic for the future, 800 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 3: or just to say hello. You can email us at 801 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 3: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 802 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. 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