WEBVTT - Wyatt Cenac on Blazing Saddles 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.960 Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.080 Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush. Charles W Chuck 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:37.040 Bryant here on Friday for an interview, A Dish and 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:38.720 you guys. I got to sit down with my old 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.840 friend Wyatt Sinac. It's been a long time since White 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.280 and I have seen each other. Actually we met boy 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.559 many years ago and actually kind of remind why of 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.440 this story. He's he was the first kind of famous 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.400 entertainment person that I became pals with way back when 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.440 when he shared stuff you should know with John Hodgman 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:00.760 and said you might like is John when they were 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:03.680 working on the Daily Show together, and John got in 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:05.600 touch with Josh and I and said, let's all go 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.000 to lunch next time he come to New York. We 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.640 went to New York and Josh and I and uh, 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.640 John and Whyatt all had lunch together. And it was 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.160 a very big deal to us. And I told why 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.080 It about this and what that meant to me. Um, 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.080 kind of that that we felt like we had arrived 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.480 a little bit. And UM, I don't think why It 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.520 had any idea that that meant something to us. So 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.039 it was kind of funny to talk about. But we've 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.200 seen each other off on on over the years and 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.120 done some pretty fun stuff together, but it's been a minute, 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.119 so it was great to get why it in here. 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.840 He was Originally he was one of the first guests 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.080 I had on my last way back when, UM, but 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:45.720 it was always hard to kind of track him down. 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:47.920 But here we are, three years in, I finally get 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.360 whyatt in here. We had a really long, great conversation 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:58.400 about his awesome underseeing show on HBO Problem Areas and 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.680 what he was trying to do there. We really got 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.200 into it with Problem Areas. We talked a little bit 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:04.680 about King of the Hill when he was a writer 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.000 for that uh TV show, which was kind of cool 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.360 because I somehow had never talked to White about King 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.799 of the Hill. And we eventually got around to Blazing 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:17.200 Saddles after an hour plus of great conversation. So Blazing 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.200 Saddles was his pick one of the great comedies of 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:24.120 all time, one of the great subversive comedies of all 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:25.880 time as well, and we talk a lot about that 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:27.720 in the role that it played back then and can 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:32.160 still play today as far as subverting racism in some 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:36.440 very fun and interesting ways. So it was a great conversation. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.600 I really enjoyed it. And here we go with the 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.440 wonderful and charming and funny whyatts sanak on blazing saddles? 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.760 How are you doing? I'm all right, yeah, I'm still 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:56.160 getting used to this whole the world now exists on laptops. 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.760 I said, things are about to be fine, right as 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:05.680 your adjusting hopefully. I uh, yeah. I got the Johnson 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:11.600 and Johnson vaccine, which, yeah, has been an interesting experience 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.200 because the day I got it was the day that 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:20.320 they recalled fifteen million doses because of the like batch problem, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:26.160 and then um, and then yesterday obviously there was the 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:30.760 news of six people getting blood clots. So I really 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:35.280 feel like, in terms of vaccines, I could have chosen. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.560 I'm really getting all the all the things that would 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:45.120 have me worried. I'm they're getting front loaded, right, So yeah, 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.840 let's get Did you have a choice, Actually I didn't. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.080 It was a strange thing in New York there, like 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:56.280 there was just one day where the governor decided, on 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.240 like a Tuesday, that he was going to open up 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:05.640 the vaccine availability to anyone like thirty and older, and 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.720 the week before it had been fifty and older. And 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.480 as you know, I'm I'm thirty and a half and 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.320 I so as soon as he made that announcement, I 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.839 just happened to see it and I immediately called my 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:27.080 local pharmacy and they were like, sure, come in on Friday, 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:32.240 and uh so I was just like, I it wasn't 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.679 even a thing of oh, let me go and check 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:37.600 whatever the website. I was just like, no, just call 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:43.240 the pharmacy and texted everybody I knew, like as though 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.320 there were some sort of gold rush, and just like 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:52.039 call your pharmus, say and so h yeah. So that 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.440 was that was how I wound up doing it. But 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.640 I thought I was going to get Maderna. That's what 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.000 I got, yeah, And so it was a little disappointed. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.480 And when I got there, because everyone I know has 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:08.160 gotten Maderna. And it seemed like even when I would 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:13.040 go on social media and I see on Instagram everyone 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:18.080 be posting photos of their vaccine cards like Maderna, and 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:24.640 so Maderna seemed like, you know, it was the the 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:31.040 jet kids of of of vaccines, like everyone's flying Jet 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:35.480 Blue to Cancoon. Johnson and Johnson started to feel more 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.320 and more like spirit airlines. Right, I think most of 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.520 my friends got viser so far, and I'm kind of 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.640 an outlier. Oh wow, that's interesting. So maybe it's just 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:48.599 kind of where you are and what they've got in 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.960 your area. I was gonna say, yeah, is that are 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.120 those regional friends or is that across the country. I 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.240 think most of my friends here in Atlanta got viser. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.360 I feel like, and and my wife family and I 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:03.640 got MODERNA And I don't know anyone here that got 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:08.840 Johnson and Johnson, so wow, who knows. Yeah, No, it's 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:12.839 a it's a very it's an interesting it's an interesting thing, 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:19.680 and it's I hope that it makes people more curious 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:26.120 about like medicine and like science in general. But like 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.560 I I just know for myself. I think when I 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.000 was starting to feel a little bit of that like 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.920 sort of fear of missing out that I somehow got 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:45.440 the the you know, grocery store brand vaccine, I started 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.960 looking up the different things on the CDC as far 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.640 as like not even the efficacy of the vaccine, but 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.800 just who it got tested on, how many people it 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.960 tested on, and in some in some ways I start 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.920 to feel a little more comfortable with the Johnson Johnson 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.960 vaccine because even the demographics of people that they had 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.960 done trials on was more diverse than than it was 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:17.640 for Maderna and Fiser, and that I when we were 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.520 making problem areas, we've done a thing about just the 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:26.160 way medicines get tested and how there more often than 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:32.840 not tested, primarily tested and engineered primarily for white men 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.600 first and then everyone else. And so that's why you 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:41.800 tend to see women continually have worse side effects for 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:48.760 any medicine, because they're very rarely tested with them in mind. Yeah, 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.080 I saw that episode. Well, thank you. Let's uh yeah, 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.720 I can't I can't really repeat any stats to you 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.680 because it's been a long time. But it was great, man, 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.160 I mean that was on my us to talk about anyway, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.600 and uh, it was so good man, it was really great. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.280 I mean I love the I love the way it 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.600 was styled, and just the the intro and the set 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.120 and how you did that little animated pieces, and it 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:18.000 just felt like like people from sort of our generation. Um, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.360 it felt it kind of was like what I always 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.120 hoped a stuff you should know show was going to 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.400 be like a sort of electric company for adults, and 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.320 we you know, we missed the mark. But you nailed it. Man. 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.520 I thought it was good how you how you jumped 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.160 around between a lot of issues. But in that season one, 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.640 you know, how you had the police thread and you 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:40.480 handled that in a way that I just thought was 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:46.040 so thoughtful and um reasonable, and it was the kind 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.040 of thing I wanted people who needed to see that 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:49.600 to see it, because I was like, here's a guy 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.840 that's like I think could really get through with the 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.880 way you were approaching it and um, you know how 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.800 it is though, I mean, unfortunately the people that are 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.599 watching you probably aren't the people that need to be 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.000 seeing that in the first place. True, but you you 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.800 never know. I mean, I feel like there's a there's 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.880 the interesting thing, and I feel I I don't think 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.280 that our show did it the best, but I feel 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:20.760 like we maybe get credit for at least starting a 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.160 conversation on it, or bringing not starting a conversation, but 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:29.560 bringing a conversation to television. And that was the episode 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:36.240 around police abolition. And it's interesting now is people have 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.359 that conversation more and more. I think what I appreciated 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:44.800 about the show was the idea that Okay, yeah, we 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:51.320 can talk about these things, and maybe maybe most of 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.800 the audience will be the echo chamber. But even in 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.440 the echo chamber, they may not be aware of something 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.440 like police abolition or aware of something like a civilian 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:07.600 complaint review board. And if they're not, perhaps if they 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:13.360 have that to add to their vocabulary, they can start saying, Hey, 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.640 why doesn't our city have this thing, Why don't we 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:21.040 have social workers that go out with police officers and 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:26.319 partner and let's redefine safety as something like that that 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:33.760 can go hand in hand um with actual like care 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:38.160 and compassion approaches and so I so in that way, 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.520 and then yeah, the hope outside the echo chamber was 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.079 that you did have those people who were like, yeah, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.839 I'll be honest, I don't believe in anything you stand for, 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.480 but you've made me think. And when we made the 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:56.680 show are I the building that we made the show in, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:02.080 we were on the fifth floor, and on the fourth 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:09.720 floor was actually the police union, the NYPDS, UH like 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:14.599 the line Officers union, and so there was very little interaction. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.439 But like the head of the New York Police Union 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:24.960 is really like a very fiery troll who just like 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:27.720 goes on Fox News all the time and it's just 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.560 really a ship ster um and I always was like, 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.400 oh am I going to run into this guy on 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:38.000 the elevator and never did. But one of the security 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:42.240 guys who worked the building was like a longtime police officer, 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.840 and he would sometimes stop me in the elevator where 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.120 it was just like the two of us, and I'd 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.720 be like, I watched your show and a part of 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:55.440 me was just like, are you about to stop this 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.520 elevator and hit me or you know, like hit me 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.000 about the ease with a telephone book and he'd be like, yeah, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.480 you know, I didn't agree with all of it, but 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.360 I like what you're doing and yeah, like you're making 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.760 some good points there, and it was just kind of like, Okay, yeah, 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.000 you're not the person that I would have expected to 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.160 engage in this conversation. And I feel like you you 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:24.280 you know, but I feel like I'm I'm maybe cracking 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:29.120 through the the armor there a little bit. And totally, man, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.400 I mean you could tell that you just took such 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.120 great care and it was so thoughtful and how you 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.640 tried to source conversations with different kinds of people and 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.840 it wasn't just the familiar talking points and let's hear 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.760 only from kind of one side. Like you were. You 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.240 were bringing in people and having like real conversations around it, 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.320 and I think, I mean, that's the only way to 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:51.160 do it if you're gonna make any headway. So I 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.760 just loved it. And then beyond that, the policing stuff 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.000 just you know, it was just you had stuff about 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:02.120 you know, mosquitoes and space traveling and dogs eating chicken bones, 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.640 and it was just I just love the variety of 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.440 But all I thought it was great. How How was 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.640 it working with HBO? Was that cool? Um? It was interesting, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:15.080 It was it was. I'm appreciative. But at the same time, 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.280 when I look at the experience, we had to make 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:24.280 so much with so little, and not just from like 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:30.599 a budgetary standpoint, but the moment that production officially started, 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:37.079 we I think started in September of I guess that 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:43.480 would have been, and they were like, you are premiering 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:51.960 April of and go and from from starting up from scratch, Yeah, 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.160 from hiring. We had started slowly hiring some people in August, 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.880 but we didn't have a full staff until sometime in September. 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:06.760 And then in that first season, for every for every 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:13.200 policing story that we shot, we were only budgeted and 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:19.160 calendared for two days for each shoot, and so when 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.320 I think about the stories we were able to kind 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.800 of like get into total two days of shooting, it's 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.000 truly a testament to the hard work of everybody at 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:37.880 the show. And also it's also this unfortunate thing that like, oh, 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.160 we shouldn't have been locked into a like you have 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.560 to premiere April at this time. Really should have given 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.440 us the time as though we were making a documentary 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.720 where it's like, Okay, take the time and take the 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.880 resources to really get it right or get it to 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:00.840 where you want it to be. Because is I think 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:02.680 there are certain things when I think about the show, 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:07.400 and especially that first season, there there were certain story 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:12.200 things that I wanted to do, but because of the schedule, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.280 we never had the ability to do. And I think 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:21.920 about some of those things now where I'm like, oh, 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.760 part of the conversations that we're having right now, I 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:32.000 wonder if those things would have added to some of 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.280 those conversations, you know, in a better way. Like when 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:41.560 I think again about like the abolition stuff and just 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:46.280 the idea of like defunding the police, I remember I'd 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.320 had this hope and thought that by the end of 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.240 the season, I'd wanted to do this thing that by 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.760 the end of the season we would actually start our 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:01.040 own police force, because I'd start it to learn about 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:08.040 how certain communities actually created their own police forces. And 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:13.160 in New York, for example, UH, where we had our offices, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:18.720 there was a police force that was created specifically to 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.760 serve that population, which was which is a population that's 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:30.400 predominantly Asian and Asian American, and so they were able 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.680 to kind of like through the NYPD, there's a way 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.720 in which you can sort of create your own police 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.880 force and you get your own police cars and your 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:47.960 own officers, and so I and there are also in Brooklyn, 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.760 I believe in the Hasidic community they have a similar thing. 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.680 And so I was kind of I became fascinated with that, 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.840 but thinking about it with this idea of like, well, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:03.200 could we do that at and then as a police force, 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:10.160 could we then also get government funding to get one 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:18.760 of those UH military m wrap vehicles because they're the 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:24.520 I believe the I can't remember the exact name of it, 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.400 but there's an office in d C that's whole focus 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.040 is like the office of like Budgetary waste Management or 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.280 it's like the o m B or the Office of 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.200 Budgetary Management or something like that. They have a podcast, 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.920 Um did they really do? But they did a whole 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:47.800 thing about how they basically set themselves up to get uh, 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:55.959 military grade equipment from these like horrible kind of like 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.800 tax incentives and things that are created where you know, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.480 you ask why police departments get like SWAT get these 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:09.040 huge like military vehicles, It's because they are incentivized through 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.240 these deals that the federal government has given them. And 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:17.600 so this Office of of Budget Management had done that 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.199 to expose it, and they were like, I think they 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.280 got like a rocket launcher and they and so I 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.840 was like, oh, could we do that? Could we start? 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:29.360 But in my head I was like, could we start 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.439 our own police force? Could we get an M wrap? 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:38.239 And then in redefining what policing could be, the idea was, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.240 could we paint the M wrap into something that seemed 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.639 not aggressive and then it rather than fill it with 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:52.840 police officers, fill it with social workers, fill it with 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:57.040 and basically have it as like a mobile kind of 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:00.640 like emergency response unit. And so if you do need 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.919 the person who has to physically subdue somebody, that person 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.360 is in the car too, but there are just as 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:13.520 many social workers, mental health experts, you know, they're all 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.400 these like even like E M T s and it's 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.320 and so it's basically like a voltron of like risks 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.359 of response that you could then be like, this is 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.640 what our police force looks like. It's this big vehicle, 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.320 but in it it's like, Okay, we got the call, 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:35.960 like there's someone in mental distress, and you can be like, okay, uh, 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.600 you know, Rick, you're gonna sit this one out. We 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.880 don't need cops on this one. We're gonna go. We're 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.200 gonna go with Dr Johansen here, who's gonna just kind 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:50.040 of talk to do some talk therapy. Do you know 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:55.000 Dave Hill the comedian. Yes, have you seen the stuff 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.440 he's painting where he's taking like Dave, you know, really 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.600 talented at everything, but he's he's now taking like axes 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.520 and stuff and he paints he's really beautiful flowers and 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.480 sunflowers and stuff all over him in these cool patterns 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.920 and it's really gorgeous. And the stormtrooper helmets and axes 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.040 and hatchets and stuff like you could get Dave to 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:18.040 paint it up with all these beautiful sunflowers. Yeah, and 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.119 just then send the team in exactly and then people 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.280 are like, oh, what's that weird, what's that weird pretty 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:28.400 tank doing. It's like, no, it's just here to help. 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:32.440 It's you know, even instead of having cops do those 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:37.000 weird like viral videos where they shoot baskets with kids 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:40.000 or whatever right right in the truck, you can also 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.760 just have like some you know, some stuffy, some stuffy 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:49.000 looking professor type. Their whole thing is like they come 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.480 out and they have a top hat or they you know, 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.840 have a hoop skirt on, and then they go and 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.440 they you know, do some sweet sweet moves on a 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.440 basketball court and they go viral and there a city 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.440 employee and they go viral that way. Oh man, that 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.399 would have been great. Yeah. I could see HBO getting 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.639 down with that too. I'm surprised they didn't. Well, I 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.000 think again, it was the it was the amount of 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:17.040 time I think we I wished. I wished when we 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.640 had the show that we had that the network maybe 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:22.959 had a little more faith in us as opposed to 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.840 I think they I feel as though they didn't necessarily 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.320 trust what this show was and what it was going 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:35.479 to be, and perhaps also didn't trust me, and so 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.480 I think they were very skittish about everything, and I 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:44.320 think in their head they were like, well, we'll lock 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:48.879 you to the schedule and thereby like you have to 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:53.919 deliver something, which the irony being there are plenty of 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:59.879 people on that network who signed really lucrative deals to 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:05.320 make things that have never been made, and it's like, oh, 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.160 wait a minute, you paid that person tens of millions 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.840 of dollars to deliver something for you and they never 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:17.280 did it right, and you're not paying me anywhere near that. 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:22.200 But I'm the I'm the one who is seen as 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.639 the risk. Yeah. That's a shame too, because usually, and 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:28.960 I've even heard this with HBO that like, if it's 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.080 a smaller show that they won't give much money to, 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:36.600 they'll at least leave you alone, you know, And and 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.600 they do that. I think it depends on, you know, 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.040 the executives that you have and the relationship you have 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:49.639 with those executives, and so I think in that regard, um, Yeah, 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.080 I know people who have great relationships with executives, and 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.840 I know on the West Coast they are really good 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.800 about I just kind of like trusting the creative voices 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.040 and giving them the space and ultimately, you know, you 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:08.840 do have to earn those things. And I think it 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.240 at at the point at which I had gotten to HBO, 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.720 I had hoped and would have liked to have believed 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.600 that I had earned that at that point, that I 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:24.880 had made enough stuff that had done well or had 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.080 you know, had had a good critical reception, that I 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:33.360 had at least earned the respect to kind of like, okay, 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:37.720 give let's give space to actually make the best thing 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.919 as opposed to trying to, uh you know, kind of 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:48.040 put as many constraints on this thing, uh and see 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:51.520 see if they can see if they can spin it 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:58.600 into something. With season two any different season two. The 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.760 main difference in season to you was when it came 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:06.720 to shooting all of the education stories. We had four 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:11.119 days instead of two days. We're able to get a 0:24:11.160 --> 0:24:16.400 couple more days. The challenge, the schedule was still the same. 0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.960 We're still kind of locked into a schedule, the challenge 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:26.639 with both policing and with education as subjects. And this 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:33.320 again is something where I feel like, unfortunately we were 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:39.359 kind of between a rock and a hard place them 0:24:40.600 --> 0:24:42.439 It's one thing to say, Okay, I want to I 0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:47.720 want to go talk to people about police brutality. There 0:24:47.760 --> 0:24:50.080 are people who will talk to you about that. If 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.160 you want to talk to people about like the failings 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.840 of a school, their parents and students who will talk 0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.119 to you about that. Where you come up against roadblocks 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:06.080 with police departments and schools and they are incredibly skittish, 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:14.080 they are they're incredibly guarded, and two crack through that. 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:19.320 It takes a lot of time and it really impacted 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:25.080 our abilities to tell stories because we would have situations 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:27.560 in both seasons we had it where we had situations 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:34.040 where there were police departments and school districts that had 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:39.560 agreed to sit down with us. We booked flights and 0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:45.360 then they said no, never mind. Wow. Disappointing it is, 0:25:45.520 --> 0:25:49.440 and it's unfortunate because the stories we wanted to tell, 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:53.920 we're stories where it was like, these are about these 0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.720 kind of partnerships and relationships that exist with communities and 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:02.399 these institutions and right to not be a part of 0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:09.200 that conversation and to be that guarded about it to us, 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:13.159 like I get, okay, not everybody wants to be on camera, 0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:17.800 but to be that guarded kind of places puts a 0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:23.000 window to what these communities must feel that like, okay, 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:26.199 even the things that you're supposed to technically be proud 0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:29.320 of in terms of the work you're doing, because it 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:31.720 wasn't like we were going to the police department or 0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:34.480 the school that was like oh, this is the school 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:37.680 that you know just beats children, or this is the 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:41.400 you weren't Michael Moore walking in there. No, And with 0:26:41.440 --> 0:26:43.800 all these places, they were places where it was a 0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:48.399 thing of like, Okay, this school district has you know, 0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:54.520 a program that's actually speaking to something that is supposed 0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:58.399 to be you know, whether it's like an alternative to 0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:02.480 criminalizing student. It's like, oh, okay, yeah, we want to 0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:04.359 talk about that. We want to talk about the work 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:06.879 you're doing. It's like, oh no, we don't want to 0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.520 talk about it. Or police departments, you know, I remember 0:27:09.560 --> 0:27:13.600 there was one police department in Cincinnati that the work 0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.440 that they were doing was one that was much more 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:22.400 of a public private partnership where the community worked with 0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:28.040