1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,399 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Robert Lamb and this is the 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: Monster Fact. In this special omnibus episode of The Monster Fact, 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 2: please enjoy the first four episodes concerning monsters from the 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: DC Comics universe, Killer Crock, Swamp Thing, Doomsday, and Mister 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: Mind Up. First, let's check in with Killer Croc. Batman's 7 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 2: rogues gallery boasts an unbelievable variety of super villains, from 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 2: chaotic clown criminals and calendar officionados to amorphous clay monsters 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 2: and cryogenically frozen mad scientists. But in terms of more 10 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: monstrous foes, a few names rise to the top. There's, 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: of course, the Man Bat hybrid man Bat. But I 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: thought we might discuss another famous foe of the caped crusader, 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 2: Waylon Jones aka Killer Croc. Now, if you grew up 14 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: on the nineties Batman animated series like I did, you'll 15 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: probably remember this guy is a pale, gray, scaly humanoid 16 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: with big shoulders, sharp teeth, and a skeletal face. He's 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: at home in the waters, especially river and sewer waters, 18 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: and he possesses great strength for grappling Batman. This character 19 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: was created back in nineteen eighty three for the Batman 20 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 2: comic by Jerry Conway, Don Newton, and Gene Colan. His 21 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: original appearance was greener and scalier, and over the years, 22 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: designs for Killer Crock have only grown more monstrous. In 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty three comic debut, he's roughly the size 24 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 2: of a large man, but in the two thousand and 25 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: nine video game Arkham Asylum, he's an absolute ogre that 26 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: basically fills an entire prison cell by himself. The original 27 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: explanation given for Killer Croc's appearance is a skin condition, 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: probably meant to be something from the ichthiosis family of 29 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: genetic skin conditions that can produce a scale like quality 30 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 2: of the skin. Now, I'm not sure how tasteful this 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 2: ultimately is, and besides, this is hardly an excuse for 32 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: other aspects of Killer Croc's appearance and character. Plus, to 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: be clear, killer Croc has dinosaur feet and other dinosaur 34 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: like qualities in his later appearances. As such, these later 35 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: incarnations of Killer Croc are often explained as a severe 36 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: form of atavism, a real life recurrence of a genetic 37 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: trait typical of an ancestral form. The topic is explored 38 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: in the excellent book DC Anatomy of a Metahuman by 39 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: SD Perry and Matthew K. Manning, with illustrations by Mean Dole. 40 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: As the authors point out, a vestigial tail or an 41 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: extra nipple in human beings is not too uncommon an 42 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 2: example of this, but if the affected gene is old enough, 43 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: a pre mammalian trait may be expressed in a human being. 44 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: Some of our genetic pre mammalian traits can be seen 45 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: in our embryotic development. We see temporary examples of this 46 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: in the dental placodes of developing human fetuses, which, according 47 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: to Petrokova at All in the two thousand and six 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: paper for the Journal of Experimental Zoology, resemble early tooth 49 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: primordia in reptiles. The human fetus also temporarily develops a tail. 50 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: In a twenty nineteen Howard University study identified ancient reptilian 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: limb muscles in human embryos during the early weeks of gestation. 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: More startling, however, is a case reported by Walia at 53 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: All in a twenty ten edition of the Texas Heart 54 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: Institute Journal, when a fifty nine year old man sought 55 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: medical attention concerning chest pains, doctors discovered some surprising myocardial architecture. 56 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: Quote Remarkably, the morphology resembled that of the reptilian heart, 57 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: that is, it featured direct communications to the ventricle cavity 58 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: and had the sinusodal characteristics of non compacted myocardium. The 59 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: authors note that this was the second known case of 60 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: such a heart in human beings. While the medical curiosity 61 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: certainly there was certainly nothing monstrous about this, the fictional 62 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: case of killer croc would seem to involve a fantastic 63 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: exaggeration of reptilian ativism in a human being, and multiple 64 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 2: cases of it at bat, impacting various bodily systems and features, 65 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: a kind of ridiculous atavism jackpot if you will now. Obviously, 66 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: crocodilian morphology factors into various mythological creatures for various cultures 67 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: and time periods around the world where crocodiles live or 68 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: where stories of crocodiles would drift to. Traditions in Egypt, Zambia, 69 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: and Indonesia involve humans that transform into crocodiles to harm others, 70 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: akin to the werewolfs of Western lore. So it's likely 71 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: here that we find the closest thing to Killer Krock 72 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: outside of comic books, rather than in our own human 73 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: medical history. Now, let's turn our attention to one of 74 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: my all time favorite comic book characters, the swamp Thing. 75 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: Swamp Thing was the creation of writer Lynn Wine and 76 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: artist Bernie Wrightson, debuting in the House of Secrets horror 77 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: comic back in nineteen seventy one. Since that time, swamp 78 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: Thing has appeared in two live action eighties films, two 79 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: live action TV series, and numerous animation and video game projects. 80 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: But among comic fans, there's nothing to compare to Alan 81 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: Moore's run with the character during the nineteen eighties. Swamp 82 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 2: Thing's original origin story was not all but different from 83 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 2: other lab accidents spawned monsters. Scientist Alec Holland his experimental 84 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: formula and a lab explosion in the Bayou transforms man 85 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 2: into plant based monster, who in turn battles various other monsters, 86 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 2: often in the form of doctor Anton R. Kane's Unmen, 87 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: plus many others. In Moore's run with the character, however, 88 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: he subverted this troupe, invoking biochemical memory experiments about plenarian worms. 89 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: We discussed these in our episode Devourer of Memories. His 90 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: take is that Alik Holin does not survive the explosion 91 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: in the swamp. He is not a man who becomes 92 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: a plant like monster, but plant life of the swamp 93 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 2: that generates a body and a sense of self in 94 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 2: the likeness of the dead man. It consumes, in this 95 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: more stripped swamp thing of any direct connection to his 96 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: human identity and opens the door for a deeper connection 97 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 2: to the green and the Parliament of trees, essentially recreating 98 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: the character as a plant elemental, a warrior of Gaia, 99 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: and overall super lorax if you will. If you haven't 100 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: read the Saga of the Swamp Thing, I highly highly 101 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: recommend it. Virtually nothing can touch it now. Long time 102 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: listeners to Stuff to Blow your mind and general philosophy 103 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: junkies might remember a similar creature. No, not Marvel's man Thing, 104 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 2: though he's awesome as well, but philosopher Donald Davidson's swamp 105 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 2: Man thought experiment. We've talked about this on the show 106 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: as well, back in our Thought Experiment's episode. It basically 107 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: goes as follows. If a lightning strike in the swamp 108 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: were to destroy Davidson's body and transform an adjacent dead 109 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: tree into an exact living replica of Davidson without reusing 110 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: any of the previous Davidson molecules. Then what do we have? 111 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: This tree double or swamp Man. It behaves just like 112 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: the previous Davidson and seems to know what he knew, 113 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: But does it really know anything? In this swamp Man 114 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,239 Speaker 2: is a rumination on thought and meaning in knowing one's mind. 115 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: Davidson writes the following quote, My replica can't recognize my friends. 116 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: It can't recognize anything, since it never cognized anything in 117 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 2: the first place. It can't know my friend's names, though 118 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: of course it seems to. It can't remember my house. 119 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 2: It can't mean what I do by the word house, 120 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: for example, since the sound house it makes was not 121 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: learned in a context that would give it the right meaning, 122 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: or any meaning at all. Indeed, I don't see how 123 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: my replica can be said to mean anything by the 124 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 2: sounds it makes, nor to have any thoughts. Now. It's 125 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: worth noting that Davidson, who died in two thousand and three, 126 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: published this idea on Swampman a few years after More 127 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 2: recast the origin of swamp Thing, and as far as 128 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: I can tell, no one is entirely certain on how 129 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: and to what extent the two are connected. Authors Chris 130 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: Galliver and Nathaniel Goldberg explored the connection or possible connection 131 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 2: in the twenty nineteen book Superhero Thought Experiments, Comic Book 132 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: Philosophy and contend Quote. While there's no evidence that either 133 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: Moore or Davidson read each other, Moore's series appears to 134 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 2: be philosophically influenced and Davidson's Thought Experiment appears to be 135 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 2: pop culturally influenced. So perhaps it's just the case of 136 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: two men on different tracks thinking deep thoughts about swamp 137 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: and the self now. Gavalier and Goldberg also stress that 138 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: there are distinct differences in their treatments quote. When it 139 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 2: comes to meaning or semantics, swamp Man is a blank slate, 140 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: while Moore's swamp Thing initially mistakes itself for Alec Holland, 141 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: only later to realize that it isn't Alec Holland. Swamp 142 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: Man never miss takes itself for Donald Davidson. It only 143 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: appears to do so. If Davidson is right, swamp Man 144 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: thinks no thoughts. It can't think it's Davidson because it 145 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: can't think at all. Hmm, So ponder on all of that, 146 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: and by all means, pick up a copy of Superhero 147 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: Thought Experiments if you want to deeper dive on this topic. 148 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: It's really quite an excellent book. Comic fans, I will 149 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: leave you with this. Here's a question for you. Has 150 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: swamp Thing ever actually met Davidson's swamp Man in the 151 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: pages of a comic book. It seems like in general, 152 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 2: any kind of matchup or encounter that one could possibly 153 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 2: imagine has occurred, or no doubt will occur. I can't 154 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 2: help but wonder how this would go down. What would 155 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: swamp Thing think about the encounter, and what would swamp 156 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: Man seem to think about it but actually not think 157 00:10:52,360 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: at all. Of course, we can't talk about DC monsters 158 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: without talking about one of Superman's most monstrous opponents. It's 159 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 2: time to talk about Doomsday, the brutal, spiny shouldered Kryptonian monster, 160 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: best known for killing Superman in the early nineteen nineties. 161 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 2: While the superhero's death didn't last too long, it was 162 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: certainly a great way to launch a supervillain's career, and 163 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: Doomsday has remained one of the resurrected Superman's most recognizable foes. 164 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: His creation is credited to Jan Jurgens Brett, Breeding, Jerry Ordway, 165 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: Louise Simonson, and Roger Stern. In DC Anatomy of a 166 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: Metahuman by S. D. Perry and Matthew K. Manning with 167 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: illustrations by Mean Doyle, the authors lay out Doomsday's tragic 168 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 2: origin story. An alien scientist named Bertron takes a humanoid 169 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: child and exposes that child to the deadly prehistoric environment 170 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 2: of the planet Krypton. The child dies, that Bertrn resurrects 171 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 2: the child via advanced cloning technology and reintroduces the child 172 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 2: to the wild with added traits to protect them. The 173 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 2: child dies again, and the amoral Bertrand continues the cycle 174 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: over and over again, using sci fi cloning technology in 175 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: the place of natural selection to eventually produce an incredibly 176 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: tough super being, the ultimate metahuman combatant, now virtually undying 177 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: himself incapable of amazing feats of regeneration, This is the 178 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: being that will become known as Doomsday. However, as Doomsday 179 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 2: retains the traumatic memory of his many formative deaths, he's 180 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 2: ultimately tormented by the rage, so much that he eventually 181 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 2: kills his mad scientist creator and continues to see the 182 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 2: face of his hated creator in others and rages against 183 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: them incessantly. It's a clever twist on evolution, melding the 184 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: science of natural selection, the philosophy of Frederic Nietzsche, and 185 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: the psychological trauma. It's also interesting when we start considering 186 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: the idea of resurrection from a religious and mythological standpoint. 187 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 2: Superman in the Death of Superman's story arc quite clearly 188 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 2: echoes the religious motif of the dying and rising God 189 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: famously seen in such figures as the ancient Egyptian of 190 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: Cyrus and the Christian Jesus. Doomsday is seemingly something else, 191 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: though not a god who has died and come back, 192 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: but a mortal who has died and come back so 193 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: many times that he has become at least a demi 194 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 2: god and a potential slayer of the divine, though in 195 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: many ways Doomsday is not so different. After all, there 196 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: is a psychical aspect to the death and resurrection of 197 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: such religious figures as of Cyrus and Jesus as well, 198 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 2: making their deaths and resurrections also quite numerable. In a sense. 199 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 2: Even in cases where there is only the singular death 200 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 2: in the singular resurrection. These events are often remembered or 201 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 2: celebrated alongside cyclical events like the passing of the seasons 202 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: and the inundation of the Nile River, but they are 203 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: still singular resurrections celebrated cyclically in multitude. Doomsday, however, has 204 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 2: experienced a multitude of deaths across linear time. In this 205 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: you could argue that he is a modern secular linear 206 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 2: perversion of the cyclical sacred and mythic and therefore a 207 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: fitting opponent for the godlike Superman. But I would be 208 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 2: very interested to hear what you think about the matter. Finally, 209 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: here's a more obscure DC villain, though he has shown 210 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: up in the movies. It's mister Mind. Meet mister Mind, 211 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: a tiny Venusian worm or caterpillar to be clear, he 212 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: has legs with enormous power at its disposal. Created in 213 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: DC com comics in the early nineteen forties by Auto 214 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: Bender and C. C. Beck, mister Mind stands as one 215 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 2: of the primary supervillains of Captain Marvel. Not the Marvel 216 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 2: Captain Marvel, but the DC Captain Marvel. Minds you this 217 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: is the one that moviegoers may know best as Shazam. 218 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: Mister Mind also makes a couple of cameo appearances in 219 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: those films. Now, mister Mind boasts incredible psychic powers in 220 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: a genius level intellect to back those powers up, so 221 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,479 Speaker 2: he's gotten into all sorts of mischief over the years, 222 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: including founding the Monster Society of Evil. He also employs 223 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: at least two key bits of technology, special classes and 224 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: an audio amplifier to interact with the larger world, because again, 225 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: despite his powers, he is a tiny worm or caterpillar. 226 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: But what I want to focus on is his old 227 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: and frankly odd origin story from the Silver Age of comics, 228 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 2: in which he makes the interplanetary void from Venus to 229 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: Earth in order to meet ventriloquist Edgar Bergen's dummy Charlie McCarthy. 230 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: This was Slash is a real ventriloquist dummy. Mister Mind, 231 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: you see, had heard Charlie McCarthy on Earth's radio program 232 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: Transmissions and apparently mistook fiction for reality. He was, of 233 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: course disappointed upon learning the truth. It's a common sci 234 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 2: fi trope explored on Futurama and elsewhere. Extraterrestrials pick up 235 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: on transmissions from Earth and either misunderstand the difference between 236 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: fiction and reality or simply lack the ability to tell 237 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 2: the difference. There are even more sci fi works that 238 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: explore the larger idea of intercepted Earth transmissions, most notably 239 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: Carl Sagan's nineteen eighty five novel Contact the Si. In 240 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 2: the sci fi here is of course that for more 241 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: than one hundred years we've been busting out commercial radio 242 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: transmissions here on Earth. However, as Robert Matthews points out 243 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: in a BBC Science Focus article, most of these signals 244 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 2: were absorbed by the atmosphere or drowned out by solar 245 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: radio transmissions, so our radio leakage as a planet was 246 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: perhaps minimal. However, Matthew stresses that Cold War military radar 247 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 2: transmissions are strong enough to have already broadcast our presence 248 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: out to anyone listening within sixty light years. There have 249 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: also been deliberate radio transmissions aimed at communicating our existence, 250 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 2: such as the nineteen seventy four Arecibo message sent to 251 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: Messia thirteen, or at least in the spirit of such communication, 252 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: but the basic idea of such transmissions either emanating from 253 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 2: us or potentially picked up from an extraterrestrial source has 254 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: garnered much discussion and debate over the decades. How likely 255 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: is alien reception or our reception of an alien transmission 256 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 2: based on the vast distances involved in limits of possible 257 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: travel speeds as we know them, How should we approach 258 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: such long term concerns, and just how careful should we 259 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 2: be when it comes to such radio transmissions or even 260 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: our radio leakage. Because while our most optimistic views of 261 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: extraterrestrial contact are rosy, indeed some of the more pessimistic models, 262 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 2: based in large part on Earth's own history of outside contact, 263 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: situations in which one culture encounters a technologically superior one 264 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 2: are perhaps best avoided. And then there's the mister Mind model, 265 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 2: in which we managed to attract a caterpillar supervillain to 266 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: our planet with our tantalizing nineteen forties radio comedy shows. 267 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 2: Thank goodness, we have so many Captain Marvels to deal 268 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: with that sort of thing. All right, we're going to 269 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: go and close it out here, but I'd love to 270 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: hear from you if you have suggestions for future installments 271 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: of the Monster Fact or the Artifact. You can contact 272 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: us at Contact at stuff to Blow your Mind. 273 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio. 274 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 275 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.