1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Kurtur Latino USC Latino USA. I'm Maria Nojosa. We bring 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: you stories that are underreported but that mattered to you, 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: overlooked by the rest of the media, and while the 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: country is struggling to deal with these, we listen to 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: the stories of Black and Latino Studios United Latino Front, 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of the movement. 8 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: I'm Maria Inojosa, No Bayan, Gdido Radio SCUCA, Geida Radio SCUCA, 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: And dear listener, here's an episode from our archives. Today's 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: episode is a continuation of a story we re aired 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 1: last week, so if you haven't listened to it yet, 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: definitely look for Unsafe and Foster Care Part one on 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: our podcast feed. Also, this episode could be challenging. It 14 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: includes details about the death of two children. And here's 15 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: the story. 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: Nobody really knows what it's like to be in the system, 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: and everybody has different judgments of people who end up 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: in the system. People think, oh, you have rights, well 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: do you really? Do you really have rights? 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: Josa Today, Part two of our story, Unsafe in Foster Care, 22 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: We continue with our investigation into the child welfare system 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles County, which is the biggest child protection 24 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: service in the United States. We met Lea Garcia, a 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: mother who called the police after her partner turned violent. 26 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: Leah was looking for safety for herself and for her 27 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: two children. Her calls to the police triggered the involvement 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: of LA's Department of Children and Family Services as DCFS. 29 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: Social workers concluded that Leah wasn't able to protect her children, 30 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: and so her three year old daughter was placed with 31 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: her birth father, but her five month old baby, Joseph, 32 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: the son she had with her abusive partner, was placed 33 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: with a foster care family. Leah struggled to see her 34 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: baby boy weekly because he was placed in a foster 35 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: home nearly two hours away from her. She worried about 36 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: Joseph's well being, and then one day she got a 37 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: call from the police her son Joseph had died. Allegedly, 38 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: the baby had accidentally been choked by the car seatbelt. 39 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: Reporter Dipa Fernandez has been investigating Joseph's death for over 40 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: a year. In her research, a lot of questions came 41 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: up about how Joseph had been cared for by the 42 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: foster care system and questions about his death. Then, in 43 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: Joseph's autopsy report, Deeper found a disturbing fact another baby 44 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: had died in the same foster home just two months 45 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: before Joseph. Deeper Fernandez picks up the story from here. 46 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 3: After reading Joseph Chuckorn's autopsy report, I had questions about 47 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: how he died. According to Joseph's foster mother, she took 48 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: nineteen month old Joseph to Target at around eight ten 49 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: on the evening of January twenty fourth, twenty twenty. She 50 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: reported hearing him making noises in the back seat, so 51 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 3: she turned around and drove home. A whole hour later, 52 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 3: at nine h nine pm, she called nine one one. 53 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 3: Some details didn't make sense and even seemed to contradict 54 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: each other. So I went by to visit someone I'd 55 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: reported on some years ago when she was the chief 56 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: and only child my old death investigator for La County, 57 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 3: Denise Breton, back in twenty thirteen. She gave me a tour. 58 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 4: This is where the autopsies are done. It's a large 59 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 4: room and you can see everybody's washing up now and 60 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 4: cleaning the instruments for tomorrow. 61 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: Now, I'm meeting Denise Breton at her home. She no 62 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: longer works investigating child deaths for the county. Denise, Hello, Hello, 63 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 3: how are you. I've asked for her expert opinion on 64 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: what happened to Joseph chuck On, and she wants me 65 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: to understand clearly that. 66 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 4: I don't work at the Coroner's office anymore, so I 67 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 4: don't have the backstory. I don't have access to the 68 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 4: case notes. I only have the autopsy report, which is 69 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 4: public record. 70 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: I've also shown Breton the emergency medical technician report that 71 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 3: I was able to get from when the paramedics showed 72 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: up to the Foster home at nine eighteen pm. She 73 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: studied them both. Britone notes ligature marks on the right 74 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: side of the neck from the seat belt, but wonders 75 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 3: if this could have caused him. 76 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 4: To choke to death. 77 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 3: The buckle clasp, if it slid tightly up against his neck, 78 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: might have caused breathing challenges, but that would have left 79 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: a different kind of mark. Britone notes there were no 80 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: seatbelt buckle marks found on Joseph. Briton also has other 81 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 3: questions about the foster mother's account to the police of 82 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 3: how Joseph died. 83 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 4: She states that he is in a rear facing car seat, 84 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 4: but he's nineteen months old. My question is, here's in 85 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 4: a rear facing car seat. He's nineteen months old, his 86 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 4: lengths are going to be compressed against the back of 87 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 4: the seat. 88 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: This is important to note because he was in an 89 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: infant capsule type car seat, so he would not have 90 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: had room to really slid down, as his legs would 91 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 3: have been pressing into the back of the seat. 92 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 4: So my question would be, the caretaker says she's driving 93 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 4: and she hears there's a report of gurgling or gasping. 94 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 4: She in the interview with the coroner investigator who does 95 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 4: a very thorough job and talking to her. He did 96 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 4: a really nice report. Now, what would be typical for 97 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 4: a prudent caregiver would here gasping or gurgling, and you'd 98 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 4: pull the car over and be sure he's okay. And 99 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 4: this caregiver does not pull the car over, she does 100 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 4: not check on him, and she drives home, and there's 101 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 4: a time lapse, a considerable time lapse. 102 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: The time lapse is important because one thing investigators try 103 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: to figure out is when the child might have died. 104 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 3: So remember she call one at nine h nine pm 105 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 3: and at nine eighteen pm paramedics arrive. 106 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 4: What we do notice is that the paramedics reported that 107 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 4: his jaw was stiff. Rigor mortis is a stiffening of 108 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 4: the muscles that happens after death. There's never been any 109 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 4: study in children, nothing that's reliable that says when rigor 110 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: mortis starts as a child. But we do know that 111 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 4: this was not a fresh death. This is not a 112 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,679 Speaker 4: death that had occurred within ten or fifteen minutes. 113 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 3: The autopsy notes that the child was last seen well 114 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: at eight thirty pm. When the paramedics get there in 115 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 3: the minutes after the nine one one call was made, 116 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: they report Joseph to be quote cool and dry. Paramedics 117 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: note the ligature marks on Joseph's neck. 118 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 4: But I do know from doing over twenty five hundred 119 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 4: deaths in the county and there was a good portion 120 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 4: of those, as well as being an emergency room nurse 121 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 4: that if she heard that child gasping drove home, paramedics 122 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 4: are immediately called that when that child gets to the 123 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 4: emergency room, he will be floppy, he will be relaxed, 124 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 4: he will be limp. He's pulseless. And this child, according 125 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 4: to the paramedic, his jaw was stiff, and when the 126 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 4: emergency room physician attempts to put the breathing tube in 127 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 4: the neck and the jaw are both stiff. This is 128 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 4: supposed to have happened within thirty minutes to sixty minutes, 129 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 4: and I would question that timeline. 130 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 3: Denise Bretone had more questions too. 131 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 4: According when the caregiver is interviewed by the coroner investigator, 132 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 4: there's a report that at five point forty in the evening, 133 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 4: the child ate soup and then at seven point thirty 134 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 4: he ate crackers. Now, there should be soup and crackers 135 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 4: at that hour, there should still be something left in 136 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 4: his stomach. But when doctor Young does the autopsy report, 137 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 4: he notes that the stomach is empty. Now, liquids can 138 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 4: empty that quickly. And I don't know if the soup, 139 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 4: you know, we don't know what kind of soup it was, 140 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 4: But he did eat crackers at seven point thirty, and 141 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 4: then he's essentially a cardiac arrest by nine thirty and 142 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: his stomach is completely empty. So there could also be 143 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 4: more questions asked about. 144 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 3: That Yet despite all these questions, Joseph's mom, Lee Garcia 145 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 3: called me to tell me she finally hood the conclusion 146 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: from the detective. 147 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 5: Hi, Geba, it's media. I had back from the detective 148 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 5: and he told me that Joseph's case. 149 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 6: With the doctor who was working on this case of 150 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 6: saying it's those like an accident and it has to 151 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 6: do with the car seat, which doesn't make much chense 152 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 6: to it, but that's what he said. That they're saying 153 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 6: that it's an accident from the cars. 154 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 3: Joseph's death was ruled an accident and the case was closed. 155 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 3: I made multiple calls to the detective on the case, 156 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 3: but he never called me back. Yet key questions remained unanswered. 157 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 3: Was Joseph strapped incorrectly in the car seat? If he 158 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 3: was the person who strapped him in wrong might be negligent. 159 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 3: And if he was strapped in correctly, but the car 160 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 3: seat was faulty and the straps choked Joseph, that car 161 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 3: seat would be a danger to all children and it 162 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: would have been recalled. It hasn't been. 163 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 4: I am aware that this case was closed as an accident. 164 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 4: I'm not comfortable with that, and the reason I'm not 165 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 4: comfortable with that is because an accident is exactly that, 166 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 4: an accident. But this is she's aware of this child 167 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 4: is in distress and fails to help him, and the 168 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 4: body shows there was delay in seeking medical care for him. 169 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: And to me, that is egregious neglect. 170 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 3: The delay in seeking treatment maybe squarely the fault of 171 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: the foster mother, but was the system neglectful as well? 172 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 3: That was what I wanted to know. And here's the 173 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 3: other thing we learned from reading the autopsy and requesting 174 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: nine one one calls made from the foster home. It 175 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 3: turns out Joseph was not the first baby The foster 176 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 3: mother called nine one one about months before Joseph died. 177 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,719 Speaker 3: This happened night one one. 178 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 5: What is the emergency? 179 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 4: Hi, Yes, this is calling me in because I have 180 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 4: a three or three months old baby boy. 181 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 7: She is a foster baby. He's not breathing. 182 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 3: This was November sixteenth, twenty nineteen, just two months before 183 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 3: Joseph died in this foster home. He was another baby 184 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 3: not breathing. The foster mother was caring for multiple children 185 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 3: at the time. We don't know how many because DCFS 186 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: cannot disclose this information to us. The only information we 187 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 3: had on this baby, was what the foster mother told 188 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 3: the emergency dispatcher. 189 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 7: And how old is she's going to be three months 190 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 7: on the twenty fifth. 191 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 6: And how really was he born? 192 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 3: I believe thirty. 193 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 5: Five or thirty six weeks. 194 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 8: He was drug exposed and I don't know what else he. 195 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 4: Was exposed to. 196 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 3: The baby died. We requested the autopsy for three month 197 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: old Draco forward. I wanted to learn about him, and 198 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 3: I wanted to find his mother, which I eventually did. 199 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 3: Delisia Taylor is twenty four. She lives in Lancaster and 200 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: is tall and thin. She has a deep sadness in 201 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: her face. Tattooed real small on the side of her 202 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 3: eye are the letters of Draco's name, dropping down like teardrops. 203 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 9: Draco was three months old when he passed. He was 204 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 9: born August twenty first, twenty nineteen, and he died three 205 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 9: months later November seventeenth or eighteenth. Because I wasn't there. 206 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 9: We had him for a month and he was a 207 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 9: happy baby. 208 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 3: I met this grieving mother right outside the Lancaster courthouse 209 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 3: where her children were formally removed from. 210 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 9: Her fields are prettymature a baby, so I'm pretty sure. 211 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 9: He had round a premie hat, so he needed extra care. 212 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 9: We gave him that care, me and the dad. 213 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 3: Delasia's attorney advised her not to speak specifically about the 214 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 3: details of why her children were removed in the first place, 215 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 3: because she still has an open case with DCFS for 216 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 3: her older child. According to public records, her children were 217 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 3: removed due to a domestic violence incident and exposure to 218 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 3: drugs in the home where the family lived with other people. 219 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: Did you ever get any offers or any help given 220 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: to you by the social workers before they removed your children. 221 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 9: No, they didn't give me any services. They just told 222 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 9: me to figure things out and get it down basically. 223 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 9: So that's just what I was trying to do. 224 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 4: And did you know what that meant? 225 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 3: Did you know what to do? 226 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:00,040 Speaker 2: I mean. 227 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 9: Not really, but I felt like I just had to 228 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 9: figure it out, So I just tried to figure it out. 229 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: When her children were taken, her attorney asked that they 230 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: be placed with Delasia's mother, the children's grandmother. The judge 231 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 3: hearing the case denied the request. When Delasia was allowed 232 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 3: to visit with Draco, it happened under DCFS supervision and 233 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: she could only see him three times a week for 234 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 3: three hours each time. And how did you find out 235 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 3: that he had passed away? 236 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 9: My mom caught me and told me that the hospital 237 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 9: called her. Oh, the police came to her house with 238 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 9: a picture of the baby to identify. So she caught 239 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 9: me and told me. 240 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 3: It's still very hard for her to process what happened. 241 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 3: Do you feel like you got answers from anyone as 242 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 3: to what happened? Like, what was the story you would told? 243 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 9: At first I didn't really get an answer, and then 244 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 9: later I was told that he died of SIDS. 245 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 3: SIDS or sudden infant death syndrome. It's sometimes also known 246 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 3: as Seward's sudden unexplained infant death. 247 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 9: My mom asked one of the workers, and one of 248 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 9: the workers had told her that he was asleep in 249 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 9: his bed and that she came back like a few 250 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 9: hours later and he was deceased or like unconscious one 251 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 9: or the other, but he was rushed to the hospital. 252 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 3: Eighteen months later. This was all she knew, and she's 253 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 3: deeply sad. 254 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: Coming up on leating. Know us say we look into 255 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: what DCFS did or didn't do. Her two children died 256 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: in the same Foster home stay with us. Yes, hey, 257 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: we're back. Before the break, we heard the analysis of 258 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: former child death investigator Denise Bertone on the death of 259 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: Joseph Chacne. Now she looks at what happened to Draco Ford, 260 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: the other baby who died in the same Foster home 261 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: two months before Joseph. Reporter Depa Fernandez picks the story 262 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: up from here. 263 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 3: Former child death investigator Denise Brittone also reviewed Draco Ford's autopsy. 264 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 3: According to the autopsy, he died of sudden unexplained infant 265 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 3: death syndrome. 266 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 4: Now, the problem with using either of those terms is 267 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 4: that the lay person, the detectives DCFS workers, even when 268 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 4: someone says justice SIDS, they think SIDS or sewards is 269 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 4: some medical disease that hasn't been discovered. It hasn't been 270 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 4: sorted out. But there's no difference in saying sudden unexplained 271 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 4: infant death. There is no difference between that and undetermined 272 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 4: after autopsy and toxicology studies. But if you say it's 273 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 4: sudden unexplained infant death, people think of it as being benign. 274 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 4: But if I say undetermined after autopsy and toxicology, then 275 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 4: there's a question mark. 276 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 3: That here's the biggest question mark Betone has after studying 277 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 3: the autopsy of baby Draco Ford. 278 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 4: What I really find appalling though, is in that case, 279 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 4: let me look at my documentation because I want to 280 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 4: make sure it's accurate. The autopsy for the Ford baby 281 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 4: is done on November nineteenth, twenty nineteen, but the final 282 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 4: cause of death is not determined until March fifteenth, twenty 283 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: twenty one. So this case stayed open for sixteen months. 284 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 4: So we have a child that died in November, and 285 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 4: Children Service SIS is waiting to see if this is 286 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 4: a safe home and waiting to see if this is accurate. 287 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 4: And you can see right here on the doctor it's 288 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 4: called a Form fifteen that the date of the autopsy 289 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 4: is the November nineteenth, twenty nineteen, and the final is 290 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 4: three fifteen, twenty twenty one. How are we expecting law 291 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 4: enforcement and Children's Services and the state because this is 292 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 4: a daycare home. There's Community Licensing, which is a state 293 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 4: agency also involved. How are they expected to find out 294 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 4: if this is a safe home when it's sixteen months 295 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 4: for the Department of Medical Examiner coroner to come out 296 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 4: with a cause of death for the first baby. That 297 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 4: is I don't have words for how disgusted I am at. 298 00:20:52,000 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: That, despite having no official cause of death, Raco, the 299 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: first baby who died in the Palm del Foster home 300 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 3: until the spring of twenty twenty one, DCFS did not 301 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: immediately remove other children from the home after the three 302 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 3: month old baby died. Now, DCFS would not answer questions 303 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 3: about any specific case they're bound by privacy laws, but 304 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 3: they did tell me that the following department procedure is followed. Quote. 305 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 3: If there is no suspicion of abuse or neglect by 306 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 3: the caregiver or someone in the placement, DCFS takes no 307 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 3: further action end quote. There is a process the social 308 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 3: workers followed to determine if the death was accidental, including 309 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: consulting with law enforcement. In Draco's case, it appears the 310 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 3: social workers believed the cause of death to be Sid's 311 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 3: and took no further action. Denise Britone questions whether Acid's 312 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 3: death determination can happen that quickly, especially by non trained experts. 313 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 3: She sees two distinct possibilities that first need to be investigated. 314 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 3: One is an unintentional death due to an unsafe sleep environment, 315 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 3: so if the crib had soft toys or pillows and 316 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 3: a baby rolls over and his face buries in the pillow, 317 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 3: and then he cannot lift his head or turn back over. 318 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 3: He suffocates. The other is intentional suffocation. Investigating how a 319 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 3: child died is complex. 320 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 4: But Tone says because children do not have injuries like 321 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 4: adults do, they don't fight back, they don't have injuries, 322 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 4: medical conditions can be masked. 323 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 3: The safest route would have been to take the other 324 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 3: foster children out of the home the day Draco Ford 325 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 3: died until these questions could be answered by the medical examiner. 326 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: Yet they were not removed that day in November twenty nineteen, 327 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 3: and two months later, Joseph Chakhon died under the care 328 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 3: of the same foster family. Just how many children die 329 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 3: in foster care is incredibly hard to know exactly. There 330 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 3: are privacy laws which DCFS cited when answering my numerous 331 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 3: record requests. There were also different criteria used to report 332 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 3: the deaths, which leads to different numbers. For example, in 333 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, I was told there were twenty three out 334 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 3: of home fatalities. DCFF says out of home care is 335 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 3: when a child lives with a relative in a foster 336 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 3: home or in a group home, but the department separately 337 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: reported only thirteen out of home deaths between twenty fifteen 338 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: and twenty twenty. Why the discrepancy. In an email, DCFS said, quote, 339 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 3: the twenty three fatalities and the thirteen fatalities contained data 340 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 3: extracted at different times and using different criteria end quote. 341 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: But what is documented on DCFS's website is stark. From 342 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen, there were ninety four child 343 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: deaths at the hands of parents or cagivers. Three out 344 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 3: of four of those children were black and Latino. Black 345 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 3: children make up forty four percent of all the children dying. 346 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 3: When I sat down with the director of DCFS, Bobby Cagel, 347 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 3: I asked him about this deep disparity. 348 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 10: It is very concerning. I think it's partly a result 349 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 10: of the fact that we have so many children in 350 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 10: our system, so they're statistically more likely to show up 351 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 10: in statistic like child fatalities. But certainly it is very 352 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 10: concerning that the majority of these kids that are involved 353 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 10: in fatalities are black and Hispanic. If we're not getting 354 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 10: the kind of services to families, to the children in 355 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 10: order to avoid those kind of outcomes, that's the ultimate racism, 356 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 10: and that's something that we've got to address. We have 357 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 10: to really get more preventative services out there to keep 358 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 10: kids from coming in our care at all, and hopefully 359 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 10: to keep parents from having to go down the path 360 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 10: of some of the really destructive behaviors that adults can 361 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 10: get into. 362 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: DCFS does not provide preventative services to avoid families entering 363 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 3: the system. Its mandate is to protect children who are 364 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 3: at risk of or are being abused or neglected, and 365 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 3: it's a social worker who often has to determine this. 366 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 3: While I wasn't granted permission to talk to the social 367 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 3: workers involved in Joseph Chuckhn or Draco Ford's cases to 368 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 3: ask them why they thought it was necessary to remove 369 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: these babies from their mothers, or ask them about these babies' deaths, 370 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 3: I was able to talk with Mary Nichols. 371 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 8: I am retired. I'm a former child services administrator at 372 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 8: the Department of Children and Family Services in Los Angeles 373 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 8: County and I was working with DCFS as it's known 374 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 8: for twenty eight years before I retired. 375 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 3: Nichols knows the system well. 376 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 8: Social workers get a really bad rap that they somehow 377 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 8: on their ownly one little person going out and making 378 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 8: a decision, and it's not the case. It's a systemic decision. 379 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 3: She points out that one social worker alone cannot decide 380 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 3: to remove a child. They have to report to a 381 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: supervisor who will help make the decision, law enforcement will 382 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 3: weigh in, and ultimately a judge is the one who 383 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 3: orders the child to be placed in foster care. That's 384 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 3: the systemic decision. It's too easy to just blame one 385 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 3: by a social worker, she says, for removing a child 386 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: who more often will be black or Latino. 387 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 8: Social workers are at a disadvantage. It's because we are 388 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 8: damned if we do and damned if we don't. If 389 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 8: we take a child from a parent who may have 390 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 8: been a victim of domestic arts, maybe because we know 391 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 8: some other pieces, maybe because the batter is so dangerous 392 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 8: that the children art risks, even if the mother is 393 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 8: appropriate but can't protect because of his dangerousness. If we 394 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 8: take the child and the child dies, we are damned. 395 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 8: If we leave the child and try to protect her 396 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 8: and the battery breaks through and kills the child, we're damned. 397 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 8: We can't predict people's behavior, and yet society media think well, 398 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 8: why did you do that? And can't you see how 399 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 8: bad it was for that child? Well, whole child abuses bad. 400 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 8: All decisions whether to keep a child in home or 401 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 8: remove them from the home are traumatic. There is no 402 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 8: simple way here, and that's something that I don't think 403 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 8: the media sometimes portrays enough, is that you cannot always 404 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 8: make the proper decision. 405 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: Part of the difficulty in figuring out how potentially dangerous 406 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 3: a domestic violence situation might be is that the parent 407 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 3: who has experienced the battering is also afraid of the. 408 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 8: So work, if you go and talk to the mother, 409 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 8: they're so afraid of you taking their kids that they 410 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 8: will align with and minimize. One second, they will align 411 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 8: and minimize because they're terrified of retaliation. And they will 412 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 8: align with the batter and minimize because it's most dangerous 413 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 8: for them at the time. And so what happens is 414 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 8: it's very difficult for its social workers to be able 415 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 8: to assess in a clear way who's the primary aggressor. 416 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 8: In the meantime, as we know, the batterer is justifying 417 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 8: his behavior. 418 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 7: And blaming and thinking. 419 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 8: So that type of child abuse evaluation and assessment is 420 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 8: extremely difficult. 421 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: And there's another issue that makes a social workers job 422 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 3: extremely difficult. 423 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 10: This job cannot be done with large case loads. 424 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 3: This is Bobby Cagel again, the head of DCFS. 425 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 10: During the Gabriel Fernandez case. I've heard reports of people 426 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 10: having sixty to eighty cases on their caseload. I can 427 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 10: tell you right now that is impossible. I was a 428 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 10: decent social worker. Twenty five cases stretched me to the max, 429 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 10: to the extent that I would go home at night 430 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 10: and couldn't sleep because I was worried about whether I 431 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 10: was going to be able to get back to see 432 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 10: the other children that I had concerned for. And that 433 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 10: kind of thing, in the long run, really wears you out. 434 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 10: It causes you to burn out in the job and 435 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 10: therefore leave the profession oftentimes, and that's not a good 436 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 10: thing either. 437 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 3: Cagel says. Since twenty thirteen, after the death of Gabriel Fernandez, 438 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 3: the department has doubled the number of social workers hired 439 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: from about two thousand back then two four thousand now. 440 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 3: But more social workers have not lessened the numbers of 441 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 3: black and Latino children who are removed in LA and 442 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 3: there are many children of color dying in foster care. 443 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: DCFS director Bobby Cagel acknowledges all of this. He says 444 00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 3: he wants. 445 00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 4: Things to change. 446 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: When I asked him if parents are treated more harshly, 447 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 3: scrutinized more by the system than foster parents, he disagreed. 448 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 10: The foster parents go through a more rigorous check than 449 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 10: most anybody else in our system. There are a number 450 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 10: of safeguards that are built in through federal and state 451 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 10: law as well as our policy. It takes about ninety 452 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 10: days of study in order to be able to approve 453 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 10: a home, and it takes longer in some cases. We 454 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 10: do everything from fingerprinting the resource parents to look for 455 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 10: prior criminal history. 456 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 3: A resource parent is what the system calls a foster parent, 457 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 3: and Cagel is clear that not everyone is cut out 458 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 3: to be a foster parent. 459 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 10: We do not accept everyone who applies, certainly, and I 460 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 10: think this is on point to something that the general 461 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 10: public doesn't understand. Sometimes removing a child from the home 462 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 10: and placing them somewhere else is not a fail safe. 463 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 10: There are children that are harmed in foster care. It 464 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 10: is a very small number, but that is also a 465 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 10: concern for me as the director of our large system. 466 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 10: First of all, we know that bringing children out a 467 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 10: home is damaging to them psychologically. We also know that 468 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 10: potentially we could be placing them with someone who could 469 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 10: also place them in danger, even with the best efforts 470 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 10: that we have. 471 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 3: So what about the racism in the system. The disproportionately 472 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 3: high number of Black and Latino children being taken from 473 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: their parents? 474 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 10: This is deeply ingrained. This is not something that's on 475 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 10: the surface. We've had very diligent efforts, but we have 476 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 10: never had resources in the department that are fully devoted 477 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 10: to the issue. The other thing that I have not 478 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 10: been able to find historically is where we set specific 479 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 10: goals around cutting the number of African American and Latino 480 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 10: children coming into our system. So we are going to 481 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 10: be putting out specific goals that we will measure and 482 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 10: make public so that the public can hold us accountable 483 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 10: on this. 484 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 3: Bobby Cagle has worked in child welfare for decades across 485 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 3: multiple states, and the problem of much higher rates of 486 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 3: Black and Latino and Native children being removed is not 487 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 3: unique to Los Angeles. It happens in many child welfare 488 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: systems across the country. This might be a good place 489 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: to point out just how much the US spends on 490 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 3: child welfare each year. It's about nine point eight billion dollars. 491 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 11: Now there are fifty child welfare agencies in the country, 492 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 11: and the funds to underwrite them are in the billions. 493 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 11: It's not a one among them that's reputed to be 494 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 11: working well. 495 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 3: This is Molly Tierney. She ran the Baltimore Child Welfare 496 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: agency for almost a decade. Here she's on a ted 497 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: X stage in twenty fourteen where she gave a talk 498 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 3: based on her experience. She tried very hard to reform 499 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 3: the system from the inside, and by many measures she 500 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 3: succeeded as she managed to greatly reduce the number of 501 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 3: children who came into the system. But Tierney also began 502 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 3: to see the problems as endemic to the very system 503 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: she was trying to reform. 504 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 11: Think about it, The only time the federal government pays 505 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 11: me is when I take somebody's kid. And as soon 506 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 11: as that kid's in foster care, they instantly become a commodity. 507 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 11: And the industry starts to wrap around doctors, lawyers, judges, 508 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 11: social workers, advocates, whole organizations. The industry is committed to 509 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 11: this intervention, this taking other people's children, because that's what 510 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 11: it needs to survive, and it's on autopilot now is 511 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 11: going to do whatever it has to do to stay 512 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 11: alive in this industry to stay alive needs other people's children. 513 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 3: After years of doing this work, Tyranney saw that the 514 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 3: act of removing children was an intervention that happened way 515 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 3: too late. She said, the solution should start much earlier. 516 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 11: We could align ourselves with existing activities farther up river 517 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 11: that are disciplined about an ounce of prevention. We could 518 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 11: find the earliest moment to intervene with a family long 519 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 11: before they need a catastrophic intervention like putting their kid 520 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 11: in foster care. So little kids not going to school 521 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 11: are a great example. When a sixteen year old's not 522 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 11: going to school, they're making a choice. When a four 523 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 11: year old's not going to school, they're telling you by 524 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 11: not showing up. But something's not quite right at home. 525 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 11: And when we send someone to tap on those doors, 526 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 11: to talk to parents about the importance of going to 527 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 11: school every day and to listen about what's actually happening 528 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 11: in that household, we learn fascinating things. Untreated asthma so fixable, 529 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 11: unstable housing harder to fix, but it doesn't mean your 530 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 11: kid can't. 531 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 4: Go to school. 532 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 3: What Tyrney proposed back in twenty fourteen was essentially to 533 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 3: take the billions of dollars invested in the foster care industry, 534 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 3: as she calls it, and use it way earlier to 535 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 3: build a better social safety net to support families so 536 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 3: they don't falter. It's an idea that's gaining popularity among mothers' 537 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 3: activists who are calling for an a to foster care, 538 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 3: women like Joyce McMillan. 539 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 7: Hi, my name is Joyce McMillan, and I would describe 540 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 7: myself as a parent who's been mistreated by an abusive 541 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 7: system that people hail as a system that protects children 542 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 7: while doing the exact opposite of that. 543 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 3: Joyce McMillan lives in New York City. 544 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 7: The system mistreated me because they came in looking for 545 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 7: reasons to separate my family and not reasons to support us. 546 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 3: Her life was irrevocably changed one day when Child Protective 547 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 3: Services knocked on her door, and so. 548 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 7: When they knocked on my door, I cooperated, thinking they 549 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 7: would see me for who I was, for the parent 550 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 7: that I was to my children, and it was just 551 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 7: all a misunderstanding. But once they asked me to who 552 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 7: gives them a urine sample. Nothing else in my life mattered, 553 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 7: and so my children were immediately removed and I remained 554 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 7: separated from my daughters for two and a half years. 555 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 3: McMillan, who had on occasion used drugs recreationally, was deemed 556 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 3: to be an unfit parent to her daughters. With them gone, 557 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 3: her life spiraled into a deep hole, she says, and 558 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 3: her stable, middle class life finished the fight to get 559 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 3: her daughters back broke her. 560 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 7: We are trapped in Shane the same way prisoners are 561 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 7: trapped in a cage. It is a cage. Walking, living 562 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 7: and breathing with extreme shame is a cage. It prevents 563 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 7: you from functioning properly. 564 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 3: When McMillan finally got her daughters back, it took them 565 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 3: years to rebuild as a family. They were traumatized. They 566 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 3: all experienced their own PTSD like symptoms. But here's where 567 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 3: Joyce McMillan's story takes a different turn. While trying to 568 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 3: reconstitute her family, she began wondering if this was happening 569 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 3: to others too. 570 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 7: And I realized that year two children had been removed 571 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 7: from downtown in Battery Park while It was about one 572 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 7: thousand and six hundred in Hallm, and that was in 573 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 7: one area of HALLM. 574 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 3: Battery Park is a wealthy white area. Harlem is lower income, 575 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 3: Black and Latino. You're looking at statistics, you know that 576 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 3: make this comparison between Battery Park and Harlem. 577 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 4: How did you understand that? 578 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 7: I understood it to be racist. 579 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 3: McMillan was outraged. She wanted to do something. Taking inspiration 580 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 3: from the demands of the Black Lives Matter movement to 581 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 3: abolish the police, Activists like McMillan are demanding an n 582 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 3: to child protective Services and a complete rethinking of child welfare. 583 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 7: What would it look like if we instead supported the 584 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 7: family who we said was not rising to a level 585 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 7: that we wish they would rise to and caring for 586 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 7: their child, if they didn't lack a coat, because instead 587 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,320 Speaker 7: of giving money to a foster parent, you bought a 588 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 7: damn coat where you brought a pack of groceries. Even 589 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 7: if you had to do that consistently for a moment, 590 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 7: it makes no sense to me that we would spend 591 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 7: our resources to separate. Separation is not support, surveillance is 592 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 7: not supported, and poverty is not neglect. But these are 593 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 7: the things that they easily get twisted. 594 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: Delisia Taylor, Draco mother wants answers and justice. She still 595 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 3: has one child in the foster care system, but after 596 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 3: Draco passed, social workers finally placed her remaining child with 597 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 3: her own mother, the child's grandmother, a request that had 598 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 3: been made and denied at the very first court hearing 599 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 3: when her children were removed. 600 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 9: Literally, probably nothing more horrible than that feeling your small 601 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 9: and tiny baby band taken from you. When do you 602 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,359 Speaker 9: you don't know where they're going, and they just taking 603 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 9: them somewhere and telling you like, oh, you can't know 604 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 9: where they are? Like orry, witches, I don't know. I'm sorry. 605 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 4: How do you go on knowing so little? 606 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 9: I was really hard and I think about it ever 607 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 9: but never really shared what to do about it, Like, yeah, 608 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 9: I do want justice from my child because he was 609 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 9: just an innocent baby. 610 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 8: Hi. 611 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 2: Oh, wow, she's beautiful. I mean you made her beautiful. 612 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 2: You put you put nel polush on her. Wow, doesn't 613 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 2: look like a princess. 614 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,959 Speaker 3: Leah has finally had her daughter returned to her care. 615 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 3: She cherishes every moment, but she says not a day 616 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 3: passes when the loss of Joseph doesn't well inside of her. 617 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 2: The last time I seen Joseph was when I had 618 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,919 Speaker 2: taken my daughter, and it was the last time both 619 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 2: of us had seen him while he was alive. So 620 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 2: I'm glad that she got a chance to see him 621 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 2: before he passed, because they weren't just taken from me, 622 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 2: they were taken from each other. 623 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 3: She finally reunited with her daughter after a judge closed 624 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 3: her DCFS case, and she's rebuilding her family, but they 625 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 3: all miss Joseph tremendously. 626 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 7: I feel like. 627 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 2: The least they can do is give me an answer. 628 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 2: I feel like that's the least you can give any 629 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,399 Speaker 2: parent whose child passes, is an answer. I just want 630 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 2: to answer of how it happened, because you can't go 631 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 2: the rest of your life not knowing. 632 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 8: Cal Do you want justice? I do? 633 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: I want. 634 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 2: I want to know how it happened, and I want 635 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 2: to know why it happened, and based on how it happened, 636 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 2: I do want there to be justice. Okay, you can 637 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 2: get a juice. 638 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 8: You can get a juice. 639 00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 2: You're welcome, Yes, do you want me to get it? 640 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 9: Of course? 641 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 3: With Joseph's death declared accidental and no charge is brought 642 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 3: against the foster mother or anyone. Leah decided to pursue 643 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,240 Speaker 3: a civil suit. She's actively looking for some measure of accountability. 644 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 3: She wants someone to listen to her side of how 645 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 3: the system treated her. 646 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 9: A lot of things need to change. 647 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 2: Things need to change with how social workers interact with yeah, 648 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 2: how they interact with families, and how they decide if 649 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 2: a child gets taken away from their parents. I think 650 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 2: things need to change with giving people resources before they 651 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 2: take away a child. 652 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 8: What is it? Oh, your doctor Coke? 653 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 2: You're gonna be a doctor? 654 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 5: Yeah? 655 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 7: I can't win that. 656 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 2: Okay. Did you want me to help you open or 657 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 2: you're gonna have grandpa open it? Okay, you're welcome. 658 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Deepa Fernandez with help from 659 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: Victoria Strada, who was edited by Marta Martinez and mixed 660 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,839 Speaker 1: by Julia Caruso and Leah Sho Damron. At the time 661 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,840 Speaker 1: of this reporting, Dipa was an Early Childhood Reporting Fellow 662 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: at Pacific Oaks College, which is funded in part by 663 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: First five LA. Fact checking for this episode by Ben Caelin. 664 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 1: Special thanks this week to Lori Turk bichac Chu and 665 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: Beth Prus of the Kids Data Program. Richard Cohen of 666 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: USC School of Social Work, Susan E. Seeger of u 667 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: C Irvine School of Law, Neiro Rossini, and Silvie de Toledo. 668 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: The Latino USA team also includes Renaldo Leanos Junior, Andrea 669 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: Lopez Grusado, Lori mar Marquez, Beni Lee Ramirez, Mike Sargentnur Saudi, 670 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: and Nancy Trujillo. Our director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebau. 671 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: Additional engineering support by Gabriel Lebiez and jj Carubin. Our 672 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 1: marketing manager is Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed 673 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: by Zee Rubinos. I'm your host and executive producer Maria J. 674 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:01,720 Speaker 9: Josa. 675 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode. In the meantime, 676 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,720 Speaker 1: look for us on your social media and as always, 677 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: remember yes a start Approxima Joe. 678 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 12: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment, 679 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 12: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians. 680 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 12: The Anni E. Casey Foundation creates a brighter future for 681 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 12: the nation's children by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, 682 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,400 Speaker 12: and transforming communities, and funding for Latino USA's coverage of 683 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 12: a culture of health is made possible in part by 684 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 12: a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.