1
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

2
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm brigittat and this is

3
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 1: there Are No Girls on the Internet. Here's what you

4
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,200
Speaker 1: may have missed this week on the Internet. So technically

5
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 1: this happened late last week, but honestly, I'm dying to

6
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: discuss it anyway, so We're gonna cheat a little bit

7
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: and add it to the roster. So we talked about

8
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 1: the dangers and complexities around social media accounts that use

9
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,160
Speaker 1: children as their focus. Children cannot consent, but that does

10
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 1: not keep parents from building followings, sometimes huge followings, and

11
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,840
Speaker 1: making real money off of their kids on social media.

12
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:46,680
Speaker 1: If you listen to the episode that we did with

13
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,919
Speaker 1: Sarah also known as Moms Uncharted on TikTok, we'll put

14
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: that episode in the show notes. We talked all about

15
00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 1: the complexities and dangers of why she actually says that

16
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 1: people who are influencers and have their entire influencer career

17
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: around their kids, why she doesn't think that's the safest idea,

18
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 1: And one of those reasons is because of the lack

19
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 1: of legislation around how kids can be used on social

20
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: media for money. That is until now. Late last week,

21
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 1: Illinois became the first state in the US to take

22
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 1: some legislative steps to ensure that kids who make money

23
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 1: from social media are compensated for their work from their parents.

24
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,960
Speaker 1: That law will go into effect in July of next year.

25
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: So we have child labor laws in this country, or

26
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,560
Speaker 1: at least in some parts of the country anyway, and

27
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 1: child performers who are models or actors typically have laws

28
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 1: that legislate how their work is performed. They can only

29
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,320
Speaker 1: work so many hours at a time, and the money

30
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 1: that they earn legally has to be set aside for

31
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: them in some cases, but this is not the case

32
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,679
Speaker 1: when it comes to social media. It's one of those

33
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 1: situations where the reality progresses a lot more quickly than

34
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 1: the laws can, and the laws really need to catch up,

35
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what's happening in Illinois. The new law

36
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,800
Speaker 1: in Illinois is the first to specifically legislate how kids

37
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 1: can show up for money on social media. So this

38
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: is not a law that is meant to legislate folks

39
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,640
Speaker 1: who are just like sharing the occasional picture of their

40
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,440
Speaker 1: kid to their nana and their pop pop on Instagram.

41
00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: It's really about people who are making money and have

42
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,160
Speaker 1: big followings from their kids. The new law entitles kids

43
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: under the age of sixteen to a percentage of earnings

44
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,280
Speaker 1: based on how often they appear on online content that

45
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,799
Speaker 1: generates at least ten cents per view. The content has

46
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,120
Speaker 1: to have been made in Illinois and kids have to

47
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 1: be featured in at least thirty percent of that content

48
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,760
Speaker 1: over a thirty day period to qualify under this law.

49
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,480
Speaker 1: So parents are responsible for keeping records of this and

50
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: setting aside the gross earnings until a child becomes eighteen,

51
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,760
Speaker 1: and if parents fail to do this, those kids can sue.

52
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,480
Speaker 1: This legislation actually came from a young person. Shreyannlamuthu, was

53
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 1: scrolling social media one day when she realized there's actually

54
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 1: no legislation protecting kid influencers online. Shreya said, I realized

55
00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of exploitation that can happen within the

56
00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 1: world of kid influencing, and I realized that there was

57
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,040
Speaker 1: absolutely zero legislation in place to protect them. So she

58
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,959
Speaker 1: ended up reaching out to Senator David Kohler of Peoria,

59
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 1: and he ended up sponsoring that bill and the bill

60
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 1: will sign into a law. Now this comes up a

61
00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: lot in the Mom's Uncharted episodes that I referenced earlier.

62
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: But even though it doesn't feel that way, social media

63
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 1: is actually pretty new, right, Like I still remember the

64
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: first time I ever got social media. It has happened

65
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,600
Speaker 1: in my lifetime, so it seems like something that has

66
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 1: been around forever, and if you're a younger person listening,

67
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: maybe it has been for you. But it's important to

68
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,160
Speaker 1: point out that it is so new that we don't

69
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 1: really know that much about how it is impacting, specifically

70
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 1: kids who grew up on social media. And similarly, as

71
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 1: those first waves of kids who were really used by

72
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 1: as content by mommy bloggers and mom run accounts and

73
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 1: all of that get older, they are just now starting

74
00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 1: to speak up publicly about the impacts. And I'm really curious.

75
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 1: I think that we should definitely be taking our cues

76
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: from these young people who are speaking up about what

77
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,680
Speaker 1: it was like to be essentially like a money maker

78
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: for your family, a source of income for your family.

79
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,120
Speaker 1: There's a really interesting Teen Vogue piece where they talk

80
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 1: to now older young people who were kids who were

81
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 1: used as the sole focus of their mom's blog or

82
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 1: online content, and it really doesn't sound like it was

83
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 1: good for them. They describe like how when they were

84
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: sick or when they were having a big moment in

85
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 1: their life, their mom would whip out the camera and

86
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 1: they knew they had to perform. And so I think

87
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: it's going to be really interesting to listen to these

88
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,200
Speaker 1: kids as they speak up about how this has impact

89
00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,760
Speaker 1: with them, And honestly, I think a good first step

90
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 1: in that conversation is instituting a little bit more policy

91
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: around how those kids get paid, because influencing is labor.

92
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: If somebody is putting a camera in your face and

93
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,080
Speaker 1: you're expected to perform, that's not that different than getting

94
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 1: up on a stage like Judy Garland and being expected

95
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: to perform. But now the laws are slowly starting to

96
00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: catch up with that reality, and honestly, I could see

97
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: more states passing similar legislation as we continue to hear

98
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,839
Speaker 1: from these young people about what it was like to

99
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: be used as content when they were too young to

100
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 1: really consent to it.

101
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that too. I Mean, we hear

102
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 2: so much all the time about protecting the children. Everybody

103
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,720
Speaker 2: wants to protect the children, and often when we talk

104
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,800
Speaker 2: about it on this show, it's just being used as

105
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 2: a smoke screen or a big leaf to dress up

106
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:30,200
Speaker 2: some kind of anti sex worker or morality piece kind

107
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 2: of legislation. But here's an actual opportunity where like, real

108
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 2: kids are being harmed and it seems like legislation is

109
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 2: maybe going to help that.

110
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 1: So hooray, hooray for finally a little legislation that might

111
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,400
Speaker 1: actually be helping kids online. We'll see. So, speaking of kids,

112
00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 1: this story, I swear that it sounds like a story

113
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,599
Speaker 1: that was written by AI just to mess with me,

114
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: specifically Bridget, but it's real. So over in Iowa, educators

115
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,480
Speaker 1: are using chat GPT to determine which books should be

116
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,480
Speaker 1: removed from their library to legally comply with a new

117
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 1: Republican back to state legislation prohibiting any instruction related to

118
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,040
Speaker 1: gender identity and sexual orientation. Infuriating, right, Yeah.

119
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 2: I mean that sounds like a pretty weighty issue. And

120
00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:22,039
Speaker 2: the idea that chat GPT is going to decide what

121
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 2: a bunch of kids get to read and what works

122
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,080
Speaker 2: are like off limits to them and forbidden feels kind

123
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 2: of weird.

124
00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: So I was about ready to raise hell around this

125
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: story until I read a little bit more into it.

126
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,880
Speaker 1: So back in May, I was Governor Republican Kim Reynolds

127
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,239
Speaker 1: signed off on a new bill which only gave administrators

128
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 1: three months before the start of the new school year

129
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,719
Speaker 1: to comply. So administrators are understandably scrambling. They have to

130
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 1: legally comply with this new legislation that says that no instruction,

131
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: no books in the library can have anything to do

132
00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,279
Speaker 1: with sexual orientation or gender identity. Pop Science spoke to

133
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 1: Mason City's Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Bridget x Men,

134
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,839
Speaker 1: who argued that it was simply not feasible to read

135
00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,200
Speaker 1: every book and filter for these new requirements, saying, frankly,

136
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: we have more important things to do than spend a

137
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: lot of time trying to figure out how to protect

138
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 1: kids from books. But at the same time, we do

139
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 1: have a legal and ethical obligation to comply with the law.

140
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 1: Our goal here really is a defensible process, and honestly,

141
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 1: I kind of get it. Educators and school administrators really

142
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 1: do have more important things to do then try to

143
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 1: read every single book to see if it complies with

144
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 1: this new bigoted law and only do it in three months.

145
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the many, many reasons why

146
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: these laws around libraries and education are so problematic. You know,

147
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 1: they create a lot of work for educators, many of

148
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 1: whom are already overwhelmed, underpaid, and overworked, and in some

149
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:57,440
Speaker 1: cases these are near impossible tasks. Giving administrators three months

150
00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 1: at the end of toward the end of the school

151
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,120
Speaker 1: year to do this is kind of a lot and

152
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 1: a little bit of a side note, like I don't

153
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 1: want to go too far off the rails, because boy,

154
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 1: this is one of those topics that if you get

155
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,840
Speaker 1: me going, you'll I'll go all day. But I think

156
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,800
Speaker 1: that that is a feature, not a bug of these

157
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 1: kinds of laws. The extremists who advocate for laws like

158
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,240
Speaker 1: book bands and a thing that certain kind of materials

159
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 1: around gender and sexuality can't be taught, I think that

160
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 1: they know that they are giving these educators a really

161
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 1: difficult and in some cases impossible task, And that's kind

162
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 1: of the point of these laws. It creates these complex

163
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,320
Speaker 1: hoops that schools legally have to comply with, and I

164
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 1: think the entire point of these laws is to erode

165
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 1: the public school system and public institutions more broadly, and

166
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,880
Speaker 1: this is one plank of how they're doing that, creating

167
00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:55,199
Speaker 1: these needlessly complex hoops that educators have to legally comply with.

168
00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's some sort of legal

169
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 2: consequences of it. Don't comply, and you know, the easier

170
00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,160
Speaker 2: thing for the school to do just be to remove

171
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:11,319
Speaker 2: all the books and just have no books, the perfect school,

172
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 2: no books, just just traditional gender vibes.

173
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I actually I get at When I first

174
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: heard this story, I was really mad, But reading into

175
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: it more, I kind of get why educators are just like,

176
00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, we need to be able to demonstrate that

177
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,720
Speaker 1: an attempt was made to comply with this law, and

178
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: using chat GPT is a way to do that quickly.

179
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,000
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that it's a good idea, right,

180
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,679
Speaker 1: So you might be wondering, like, how does this all work? Well.

181
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,920
Speaker 1: Administrators first compiled a master list of commonly challenged books,

182
00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,600
Speaker 1: then removed all those challenge for reasons other than sexual content.

183
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 1: Administrators then asked chat GPT the specific language of IWA's

184
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 1: new law. Does XYZ book contain a description of a

185
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 1: sex act? Things like that. If the answer was yes,

186
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: the book was removed circulation and stored. But if you

187
00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 1: listen to the show, you already know that chat GPT

188
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: is pretty janky, So that means that the tool that

189
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 1: they're using to comply with the enforcement of this law

190
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:16,319
Speaker 1: might also be pretty janky. So as much as I

191
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:21,000
Speaker 1: hate hate this whole situation, I think that, like, it's

192
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 1: really bad. I think that using chat GPT as this

193
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 1: quick tool to just comply with this law is bad

194
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, not the least of which

195
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,480
Speaker 1: is that chat GPT is pretty inconsistent. I guess I,

196
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,840
Speaker 1: on the one hand, get why they felt they had

197
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,560
Speaker 1: to do this. One of the school administrators that Pop

198
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,840
Speaker 1: Science spoke to explained, realistically, we tried to figure out

199
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,440
Speaker 1: how to demonstrate a good faith effort to comply with

200
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 1: the law with minimal time and energy. When using chat GPT,

201
00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 1: we use a specific language of the law. Does X

202
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,720
Speaker 1: Y Z book contain a description of a sex act.

203
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: Being a former English teacher, I have personally read and

204
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 1: taught many of the books that are commonly challenged, so

205
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 1: I was able to verify chat gbt's responses with my

206
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 1: own knowledge of some of the text. After compiling the list,

207
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,040
Speaker 1: we ran it by our teacher librarian, and there were

208
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: no books on the final of the nineteen that were

209
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 1: surprising to her. So I guess it's good that in

210
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 1: this case the school feels like chat GPT was able

211
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,480
Speaker 1: to help them comply with this like bogus law that

212
00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,320
Speaker 1: is ridiculous in the first place. But I just think

213
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,760
Speaker 1: this is really, to me a story about how these

214
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 1: laws will just create the conditions where people do feel

215
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 1: like they need to fall back on technology, technology that

216
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 1: can be inconsistent, problematic, racist, sexist, all of that, because

217
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 1: they just have to like rush and demonstrate that an

218
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: attempt was made to comply. And so I think that

219
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: their use of chat GPT here to me is a

220
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,800
Speaker 1: symptom of a much deeper and much larger problem.

221
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I agree. I'm not sure exactly what

222
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 2: that problem is. This is a complicated one.

223
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 1: Well, I think the problem is that, like that's what

224
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 1: happens when you make laws that are bigoted and also

225
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,200
Speaker 1: needless and also require administrators to scramble to comply. Like

226
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,719
Speaker 1: that's so the three months to comply thing is so arbitrary.

227
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,199
Speaker 1: They if the school was genuinely interested in an assessment

228
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,280
Speaker 1: of what is what kids are reading, are their materials good, whatever,

229
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 1: all of that, you don't do that in three months

230
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,720
Speaker 1: without some sort of a lazy workaround, and that lazy

231
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 1: workaround is Chad GPT.

232
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. So it sure feels like a weird

233
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 2: president to say.

234
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back.

235
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,880
Speaker 1: Okay, I need to give a pretty big trigger warning

236
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,840
Speaker 1: and heads up on this next one because it involves

237
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 1: a pretty gnarly abuse situation. That's because a jury disawarded

238
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,959
Speaker 1: a woman only known as her initials DL two hundred

239
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,640
Speaker 1: million dollars for past and future mental anguish and one

240
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,400
Speaker 1: billion billion with a B dollars imputitive damages against her

241
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:22,520
Speaker 1: ex boyfriend, Marquise Jackson, who waged a horrific year's long

242
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:27,240
Speaker 1: online abuse campaign against her. So these two got romantically

243
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,200
Speaker 1: involved in twenty sixteen, during which time this was her

244
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,880
Speaker 1: romantic partner, so she trusted him to have access to

245
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,200
Speaker 1: her digital life right her computer, her online banking information,

246
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 1: her social media footprint, her home security system, things like that,

247
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,680
Speaker 1: which I feel like in this day and age, it's

248
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,880
Speaker 1: not uncommon for people who are living together to have

249
00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 1: that level of trust and intimacy with each other's digital lives.

250
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, things started to deteriorate, and she says

251
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 1: that Jackson started getting jealous, paranoid, and delusional. They had

252
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 1: had what she described as a long drawn out breakup.

253
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,319
Speaker 1: When Dill finally broke up with him and moved from

254
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,280
Speaker 1: their shared home in Chicago to live with her mom

255
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,880
Speaker 1: in Texas, she asked her ex Jackson to return or

256
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,880
Speaker 1: delete some intimate material that she had consented to him

257
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 1: having when they were together, but obviously wanted him to

258
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 1: delete now that they were not no longer a couple,

259
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 1: and that's when the abuse started. So the scope and

260
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 1: scale of the abuse waged via online platforms and technology

261
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 1: is truly jaw dropping. When I was researching this for

262
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 1: the episode, every time that I added something to the list,

263
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 1: I was like, well, Charlie, this must be the last instance,

264
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 1: and then there would be another thing to add, Like

265
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,280
Speaker 1: it just went on and on and on. I should

266
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 1: say that online abuse is often dismissed as like people

267
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,640
Speaker 1: think that you're talking about like someone said mean words

268
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 1: to me, or oh, this woman you know took intimate

269
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,800
Speaker 1: photos with her boyfriend and then regretted it when they

270
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 1: broke up, or some other such nonsense. Right Like, it

271
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 1: often is dismissed. But this situation is a good example.

272
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 1: Of how deep and involved online abuse can be. Right.

273
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 1: It is sexual, it is financial, it is psychological, and

274
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,720
Speaker 1: more so. The Messenger reports that the lawsuit alleged that

275
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,320
Speaker 1: her ex created fake profiles, published intimate images and videos

276
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 1: of dll on Facebook, Twitter, and pornhub. Jackson also emailed

277
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: the photos and videos to the woman's relatives, friends, and

278
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: co workers. He posted images on public dropbox links that

279
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:34,880
Speaker 1: also included her home addressed. Importantly, he used more than

280
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,440
Speaker 1: just the intimate images that she had asked for him

281
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: to delete when they broke up, because he hacked into

282
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,320
Speaker 1: her online home surveillance cameras in order to watch her,

283
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 1: surveil her, and spy on her, and was able to

284
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,000
Speaker 1: get more intimate images and videos of her from hacking

285
00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 1: into those cameras, So if she logged onto a Zoom

286
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 1: meeting for work, Jackson would hack into her account and

287
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: then post those private images and videos. Wi so financial,

288
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,680
Speaker 1: he emailed her loan officer with a claim that she'd

289
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,640
Speaker 1: taken out fraudulent loans, accessed her personal bank account, and

290
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,640
Speaker 1: used her money to pay his rent and make purchases

291
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 1: without her consent. She says that she tried everything to

292
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:15,840
Speaker 1: get him to stop This went on for a year.

293
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 1: She tried restraining orders, pressing criminal charges, and contacting online

294
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,800
Speaker 1: social media platforms to take the material down, but she

295
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 1: never got a helpful response from anybody. And honestly, I

296
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: think I know why that was. It's because the powers

297
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,480
Speaker 1: that be just really do not take it seriously when

298
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,800
Speaker 1: someone is being abused in this way using technology as

299
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 1: a facilitator. You know, platforms, they will pass the buck

300
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 1: every which way they can, every chance they'll get. And

301
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to this kind of abuse,

302
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 1: which is sometimes called technology enabled abuse, oftentimes the way

303
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: that people talk about tech enabled abuse really negates the

304
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: fact that tech enabled abuse is systemic and that it

305
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,960
Speaker 1: is every bit as real, dangerous, and scary as physical

306
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 1: domestic violence. So, after DL was unable to get any

307
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 1: help via restraining orders or the police, she started documenting

308
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 1: every instance of abuse in an Excel spreadsheet, itemizing the

309
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 1: types of attacks and publication method and addresses of those attacks,

310
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 1: and then linking to the specific evidence of the attack.

311
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: That spreadsheet spans five pages of activity over the course

312
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 1: of three plus years. So her ex jackson sent her

313
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 1: a message saying, you will spend the rest of your

314
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 1: life trying and failing to wipe yourself off the internet.

315
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,320
Speaker 1: Everyone you ever meet will hear the story and go

316
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,600
Speaker 1: looking happy hunting. I know that one point two billion

317
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: dollars seems like a lot of money, but DL's attorney

318
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 1: told The New York Times that he doesn't actually expect

319
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: Jackson to pay out the full one point two billion dollars,

320
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: but that that amount was really about sending a message.

321
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 1: So you know how her ex told her that you

322
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 1: will spend every day of your life trying and failing

323
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,160
Speaker 1: to wipe yourself off the internet. Well, DL's lawyer said

324
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,240
Speaker 1: that Jackson will spend the rest of his life trying

325
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,160
Speaker 1: and failing to wipe this financial debt. Clear and the

326
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 1: irony here is that clearly Jackson wanted this to be

327
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 1: something that was going to follow DL around for the

328
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,240
Speaker 1: rest of her life, be something that anybody who ever

329
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,680
Speaker 1: googles her would see. But the irony is that that's

330
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,720
Speaker 1: now him. Right. As DL's attorney points out, every time

331
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,600
Speaker 1: this man tries to apply for a job, or tries

332
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,160
Speaker 1: to apply for credit, or maybe even gets a new girlfriend,

333
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 1: all they need to do is google our Marquise Jamal Jackson,

334
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,919
Speaker 1: and what comes up is a one point two billion

335
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: dollar judgment, so be careful what you ask for.

336
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 2: And that will follow him too, because uh, I'm pretty

337
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 2: sure that in most states, maybe all the states, punitive

338
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,160
Speaker 2: damages you can't get rid of them with bankruptcy.

339
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: So like, oh, I didn't know that.

340
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he owes that money, which, assuming he's not

341
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,280
Speaker 2: a billionaire, he will never be able to repay.

342
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 1: I mean that amount is clearly about sending a message

343
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 1: that if you wage this kind of tear or campaign

344
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 1: using the internet, the punitive damages that you will have

345
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: to pay out will be so much that you could

346
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,600
Speaker 1: work a million hours every day for the rest of

347
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: your life and you will still die owing that money.

348
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,239
Speaker 1: And I think it's meant to send a signal, and

349
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 1: I hope it does, because this is very serious. Like

350
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 1: I truly was only able to scratch the surface of

351
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: how many different things this guy did to dl, how

352
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 1: much hell he put her through. He like the I

353
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 1: read some of the court documents, they describe him at

354
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 1: three am up making multiple fake phone numbers on multiple

355
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: burner phones and multiple profile like for hours and hours

356
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,399
Speaker 1: and hours, like he was waging a campaign of terror

357
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: to terrorize this woman. And make her life hell. And

358
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think that, like it sounds like a

359
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 1: lot of money, but I think that people need to

360
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: understand how serious of a thing this is, Like his

361
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: actions are horrific. So, Jackson was found guilty of violating

362
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: Texas's revenge porn laws, and that's been a term that

363
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 1: folks have used to talk about this case, with revenge porn.

364
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: A lot of advocates, myself included, don't tend to use

365
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: language like that. I find that language not particularly useful

366
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 1: because I think it kind of implies that, you know,

367
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 1: if somebody is quote getting revenge on you, it kind

368
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 1: of implies that you've done something wrong. And these people

369
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: who become victims of this or targets of this, have

370
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 1: not done anything wrong. And so I don't really like

371
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,040
Speaker 1: that language. I think that I think that like it

372
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: implies that they've done something to quote deserve it, and

373
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: instead most advocates use the phrase image based sexual abuse,

374
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 1: which is what this is. Dee's lawyer says that the

375
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: scope of what Jackson did to her is so much

376
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: more than what we think of typically when you think

377
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: of quote revenge porn, like, the scope is much deeper

378
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 1: and it's really heartbreaking because Dille says that at one

379
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 1: point she felt completely hopeless, but after the trial, she

380
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: encouraged anyone who was dealing with this kind of online

381
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 1: abuse to stay strong. She said, you are more than

382
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: the shame you may feel, and you deserve to be

383
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: your biggest advocate and know that there are people who

384
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: recognize this behavior as the terrible crime it is. As

385
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: we brought a knowledge on this type of abuse, we

386
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: can collectively influence laws to better protect us in the

387
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 1: digital age. And honestly shout out to DL like what

388
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: she went through sounds horrific, the fact that she documented

389
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 1: all of this came out the other end of it,

390
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: and as trying to use what she went through to

391
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: help encourage other targets of this kind of abuse, which

392
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: is much more common than we think. Like I think

393
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: that what she went through is a real extreme case,

394
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: but I think, like, if you are a young person,

395
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: you've definitely had someone threaten you with like I'm gonna

396
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 1: post these pictures or blah blah blah. Like that is

397
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: so common and it's so normalized the point where like

398
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,919
Speaker 1: it's a punchline in like movies and television, and I

399
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: think DL is exactly right. We need to change have

400
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: a systemic culture change around this kind of digital abuse.

401
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: We need to understand that just because it's happening through

402
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: technology or through a computer does not mean that it

403
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: is not abuse, because it definitely is. It is a crime,

404
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 1: and we need to collectively do better and influence laws

405
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: to better protect us in the digital age so that

406
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: this is not so commonplace. But I think it's both

407
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: legislative changes and also culture changes that we don't allow this,

408
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: We don't minimize this, we don't stigmatize the people that

409
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: it happens to, and that we really take it seriously

410
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: as the crime that it is.

411
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, bridget So this is kind of like an

412
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: unusual news roundup, right because we are two for two

413
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 2: of the power of the law being used to protect

414
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 2: people and like do good and achieve justice? Can we

415
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: keep this going?

416
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: Ah? Well, you know how much I love law and order,

417
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: and you know how big of an advocate I am

418
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: for the US criminal justice system, which I think is

419
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 1: great and has no fault and I never bring up

420
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: those flaws ever. But unfortunately we can now keep it

421
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 1: going because I have a pretty crummy law to tell you, about.

422
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,959
Speaker 1: So y'all know that we've been keeping an eye on

423
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 1: the flurry of legislation ostensibly aimed at keeping kids safe.

424
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: If you if it sounds like I'm doing quotes but

425
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 1: you can't see them because it's a podcast, I am

426
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 1: keeping kids safe online? That would or it's already deeply

427
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: changing our internet landscape, things like the Kids Online Safety

428
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Act and online age verification in states like Virginia and Mississippi.

429
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 1: A little update on that, because this time Wisconsin wanted

430
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: to get in the mix. Tech Dirt's Mike Mansnik has

431
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: a great roundup of Wisconsin's new Senate Bill three eighty five,

432
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: which basically treats everybody online as if they're a child

433
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: unless they can specifically prove otherwise.

434
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: All right, so what's in this bill? How is it

435
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 2: going to keep kids safe? Well?

436
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: Under the bill, social media companies must ensure that all

437
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 1: accounts created on or after Jin first, twenty nineteen are

438
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: designated as youth accounts that comply with the youth account

439
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: requirements of the bill. So basically, under this bill, everybody

440
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 1: on social media is assumed to be a minor and

441
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: treated as such. Social media companies can remove what the

442
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: bill will calls youth account designations from accounts if those

443
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: social media companies estimate that an account is from somebody

444
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: who is not a minor through employment of a process

445
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: or a program that provides a ninety five percent accuracy

446
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: rate of estimating age within twenty four months of their

447
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: actual age. So it like gets like pretty nitty gritty.

448
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: It does, and you know, provides these based on their

449
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: notes here provides these three different routs to have a

450
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: person turned or have an account converted from a youth

451
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: account to an adult account, I guess. But like, if

452
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 2: you think about that for a second, that means that,

453
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: like every single social media account needs to know the

454
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: age of every user. It's like a pretty intense, I

455
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: don't know, threat to privacy.

456
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I'm sure I've said this before, but I

457
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: wholly reject this this dynamic where in order to keep

458
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: kids online safe, we need to everybody, regardless of age,

459
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: needs to be giving more information to social media platforms.

460
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: I reject that whole cloth. That is not a reasonable

461
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: solution to this issue that we find ourselves with. The

462
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: legislation would also introduce nighttime lockouts for people who have

463
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: not verified their age. That's right, Internet open and closed hours.

464
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: The bill reads that it would ensure that the account

465
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: cannot be used or accessed between the hours of ten

466
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: pm and seven am. So I would be so screwed,

467
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: like if I was under if I was like a

468
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: like if I was a sixteen year old bridge and

469
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: this law were in play, I would be so screwed

470
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 1: because I genuinely do not think there was ever a

471
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: homework assignment ever and my whole life that I ever

472
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: started before ten pm the night before it was due.

473
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: That was just like not what I was doing. I

474
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: was a student who was like someone would like I

475
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: would be on aim remember aimed. It would be like, hey,

476
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: did you finish the report? I'd be like report? That

477
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: always me. So if I wasn't able to use the

478
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: Internet after ten o'clock at night, I will be so screwed.

479
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think I would be screwed.

480
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: Now.

481
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 2: Just earlier today, I left my main laptop at work,

482
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: and so right now I'm on my backup laptop that

483
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 2: I recently had to reinstall the operating system on, and

484
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: so I'm not lugged into anything. And so if I

485
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: wanted to access any social media accounts from this laptop,

486
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd have to like find my password,

487
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 2: which I guess isn't like the biggest thing in the world,

488
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: but it's like, you know, not something that I have

489
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: ready to go. But if I didn't do that, I

490
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to use the Internet after ten pm.

491
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: That would enrage me. And I think most adults would

492
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 2: feel the same way if like they were just locked

493
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: out of the Internet because they were assumed to be

494
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: a child who needed to go to bed at ten pm.

495
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: But like, that's not what the internet. That's not how

496
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: the Internet works, right, Like, you can't legislate it in

497
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: this way that assumes that everybody is a child and

498
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: makes what Tector calls it like an online version of Disneyland.

499
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: That's not the Internet. And I think that we're really,

500
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: we absolutely do need to be having this conversation around

501
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: online privacy as it pertains to kids and adults. However,

502
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: I feel like the people who are doing the actual

503
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: loudest talking, the people who are writing the legislation, are

504
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: there are people who are doing it badly at best,

505
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: and at worst, extremists who have already explicitly talked about

506
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: wanting to use these conversations around keeping kids safe online,

507
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: to further censor our internet and further make our internet

508
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: less hospitable places for marginalized folks to show up. Because

509
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: this bill also gives parents a whole heck of a

510
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: lot of access over what kids do online. The bill

511
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: provides to parents of minor account holders certain accesses, including

512
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: full access to the account and all of its posts

513
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: and messages, the ability to change the time limits on

514
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: the account, and to opt out the miner's account from

515
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: the youth account designation. The legislation, of course, does not

516
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: take into account if the child is a strange from

517
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: a parent, or if they have an abusive parent, or

518
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: if the child is coming to the internet to get

519
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: support around questions that they don't feel comfortable asking their parent,

520
00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I this upsets me if you

521
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: can't tell it's ridiculous.

522
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this would be like so onerous for social

523
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: media companies to implement, like to ensure all of these

524
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 2: kinds of controls, Like you know, they're not California, they

525
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: don't get to set the national standards like that. It's

526
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: just it really seems like legislation written by people who

527
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: don't really know what they're talking about and really don't

528
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: have any thought about like how to actually impact the

529
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 2: things that they're concerned about.

530
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate that. I hate that we have seeded

531
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: this conversation to people who I don't think really get

532
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: the Internet. So I take this incredibly personally. I think

533
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: I've talked about this on the show before. But you know,

534
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: growing up in a small town in Virginia, it was

535
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: the Internet that really set me free. And I don't

536
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: want to make it seem like I my parents are

537
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: like bad people, but I was definitely the kind of

538
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: kid who like didn't feel like I could come to

539
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: my parents with a lot, and if you were that

540
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: kind of kid, you know what I mean. And it

541
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: was the Internet that saved me. It was the Internet

542
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: that set me free. It was the Internet that really

543
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: helped me understand that there were more people out there

544
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: than in my small town and that when I got older,

545
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: I would be out there among them. And so I

546
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: was for sure also having experiences I probably shouldn't have

547
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: had it on the Internet, but like that's a story

548
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: for another time, but you know, I really feel grateful

549
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: for those experiences. I don't know where I would be

550
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: if my parents had never bought me a computer and

551
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: never got me on America online. I don't know how

552
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: I wouldn't. I don't know if I would recognize myself.

553
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if that sounds weird, but I truly

554
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: don't know if I would recognize me as me, because

555
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: that was such such a confusing time and so making

556
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: it so that whatever your kid searches or talks about

557
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: online is just always visible to mom and dad, not

558
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: because of some sort of norm that you have set

559
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: in your household as a parent, because I do think

560
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: that parents should be like involved in what their kids

561
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: doing online, but because the government, this legislation has has

562
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: established that. I don't think that's right, and I don't

563
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: think that's how the I don't think that's how the

564
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: Internet was meant to be. I don't think that's how

565
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: kids learned to have safer Internet experiences. I think there

566
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: are so many things that our legislators could be doing

567
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: to ensure that young people are having safer experiences online.

568
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: I am an advocate for that, but laws like this

569
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: don't make kids safer. They just make the Internet worse

570
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: for everybody.

571
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's worth pointing out it's just a bill.

572
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 2: It is pretty difficult to image and this becoming law

573
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: once somebody who's not just interested in political grand standing

574
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: outside of Green Bay actually takes a look at it

575
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: and realizes how completely unworkable it is.

576
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: Is this you getting into your like Wisconsin one time,

577
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: Wisconsin roots?

578
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, Senator Cowls from Green Bay?

579
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts?

580
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: This is par for the course. You know, they're not

581
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 2: serious people.

582
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: Classic Cowls, well, not busting out the succession quotes or

583
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: Senator cows.

584
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: The scary thing though, is that, like, you get enough

585
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: of these people gerrymandering enough districts and they win power

586
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: and they put these cuckoo laws into place.

587
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying is that, like I know,

588
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: this is just a bill, but that age verification in

589
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: legislation in Virginia. I never in a million years thought

590
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: that that would be something that would be actually showing

591
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: up on people's computer screens, and here we are. I

592
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: think that the conversation around what do we do with

593
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: the Internet has gotten so out of hand and so

594
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: hijacked by people who don't know what they're doing, or

595
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: actively have bad intents and are trying to use those

596
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: conversations to hijack them to spread harm and agendas. So

597
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's something to keep an eye on.

598
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: We will keep an eye on it. Our very own

599
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: Joey Patt, super producer of this very podcast, was on

600
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: another podcast that we Love Stuff. Mom never told you

601
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: to talk about age verification, why it is so harmful

602
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: and why it is so dangerous specifically to marginalized youth.

603
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll echo that. I listened to that episode. It

604
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 2: was really good.

605
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it.

606
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: Okay, So we got to talk about our favorite person.

607
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm talking about? The person that

608
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: in the last news roundup I declared as the chat

609
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: whitfield of tech? If you know, you know, do you

610
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about?

611
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 2: It's Elon. What's he done now?

612
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: Well, he's throttling traffic to sites he does not like

613
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: on Twitter, according to a new report from The Washington Post,

614
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: the company formally known as Twitter, which, by the way,

615
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 1: I like what the Post did there, but Prince would

616
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 1: be absolutely appalled to be associated with Twitter or Elon Musk.

617
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: So I like what they're doing there. They're not calling

618
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: it x but they're kind of giving a little prince now,

619
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: but Prince deserves better than that association. So the company

620
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: formally known as Twitter has been slowing down the speed

621
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: with which users can access links to The New York Times, Facebook,

622
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: and other news organizations and online competitors, a move that

623
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: appeared targeted at companies that have drawn the ire of

624
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: owner Elon Musk. The post test that showed that when

625
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: you clicked on a site like Facebook or The New

626
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: York Times on Twitter, you are made to wait for

627
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: about five seconds before that page opens. I know that

628
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like a lot, but think about like when

629
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: you are scrolling Twitter, a site like Twitter moves so

630
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: quickly or used to being able to just click things

631
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: and then boom and opens like that that five seconds

632
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: like one banana, two banana, three banana, four banana, five

633
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: banana in Twitter scrolling time, that is an eternity and

634
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: it is enough to like shape your behavior a little bit.

635
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 1: Like I have a timer on my phone that when

636
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: I open TikTok, I have to wait three seconds, and

637
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,399
Speaker 1: more times than not, that three seconds is enough time

638
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: for me to be like do I really need to

639
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: open this app? So it doesn't sound like a lot,

640
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: but it is enough to make an impact and enough

641
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: like people will definitely choose to not go to those

642
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: sites if there's a five minute delay. The sites where

643
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: this is happening are all sites that have been singled

644
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: out by Musk for ridicule or attack, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Skide,

645
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: and Substack, as well as Reuter's Why service and The

646
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: New York Times. You'll probably remember that this is not

647
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: the first time that Elon Musk has used Twitter to

648
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: further his own personal grievances and grudges. Right after he

649
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: bought Twitter, he banned the Twitter account that used FAA

650
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: data to track his own personal jet and then banned

651
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: journalist who reported on that ban, and even suspended the

652
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: Twitter account of the social media platform Mathodon because that

653
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: account referred to it as well. So Elon's reign of

654
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: being the self proclaimed free speech absolutist continues.

655
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, just more evidence of what he's about. And it's

656
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: also like stepping back the more seriously evidence of just

657
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 2: how much power we've allowed not just him, but social

658
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: media platforms to have. Like you probably remember a few

659
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: years ago the fight over net neutrality, you know, which

660
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 2: was basically the same idea that internet service providers shouldn't

661
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 2: be allowed to control the speed with which you can

662
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 2: access different websites based on how much they paid or

663
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: which ones they happened to like. And it was like

664
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 2: a huge deal that people fought over for years and

665
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: currently is unfortunately dead thanks to the Trump administration. But like,

666
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 2: you know, maybe we'll get it back someday. But here's

667
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: Elon doing the exact same thing effectively. But it's like

668
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: not even something that we're talking about, Like how quickly

669
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 2: things just change in degrade.

670
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like the fact that one person who basically

671
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: their whims and grudges and grievances dictate what happens on

672
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: one of our largest digital communications platforms. That, I mean,

673
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: it really says so much that like one person is

674
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: able this thing that like, I don't know, if you

675
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: were like a nerdy online person when the net neutrality

676
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: conversations were happening, you remember that? Do you remember that? Right?

677
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: And the fact that we had so much debate about it,

678
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: and now it's just like, oh, Elon gonna do it

679
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,919
Speaker 1: on a whim, you know, I'm gonna big deal. Uh yeah,

680
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: all right, So I feel like things have gotten a

681
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: little bit heavy lately, and so let's return to some

682
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: of our better news, lighter news, good news. I'm gonna

683
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: start with some like cautious good news or oh we'll

684
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: call this like what's in between good and bad? Okay news?

685
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: Okay to good news? That isn't that doesn't sound.

686
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like when you asked what's between good

687
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: and bed? I thought you were gonna get all like

688
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 2: profound then okay?

689
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: Is really what else would be in between good and

690
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: good and bad? Like give me a give me you

691
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: know it's fine news, give me a profound reading of that.

692
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, like between good and bad is temptation

693
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: or something like that.

694
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: I see. That's like my favorite Tennessee Williams quote, The

695
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: opposite of death is desire. I always love that quote.

696
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, you thought I was gonna get

697
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: like artsy on you.

698
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought you were gonna get artsy. I thought

699
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: I was recording this with Tennessee Williams.

700
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: Ma, Ma, this flower is Wilton I do. When it's

701
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: hot out in DC and it's like it's like very

702
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: humid today, I do, uh, I do. I don't know

703
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: if you've heard me do it and that's why you're

704
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: referencing it. But I do sometimes do a exaggerated impression

705
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 1: of it of a Tennessee Williams character, and uh, yeah,

706
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: it brings me great joy. Yeah.

707
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: Uh, perhaps the listeners would would like to hear it,

708
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 2: like how you feel about all this humidity?

709
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: Oh, this muggy DC weather gives me the horribles. Something

710
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: people might not know about me is that I love

711
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: doing bad impressions. I enjoy hearing people do impressions. I

712
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: enjoy doing impressions. I feel like it's the It's like

713
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: the lowest form of comedy, and a comedy is even

714
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: too far. It's like the lowest form of discourse, like

715
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: or communication. But you know I am who I am.

716
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: I love a good you've heard my Yeah, I know that.

717
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: You know this. What is my favorite niche impression to do?

718
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: That I love to do?

719
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh your favorite niche impression to do?

720
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: I'll give you a hint. Okay, But it was my

721
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: birth When it was my birthday, I was like, is

722
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: it is it whacked to buy a cameo of this

723
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: entity for myself? A birthday cameo for myself of this

724
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: person or not not person, this figure saying happy birthday

725
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: to me entity.

726
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not. And you actually you do a pretty

727
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: good crypt keeper.

728
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: Ah, I'm not gonna do it on this episode because

729
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: you know what, the listeners couldn't handle it. But just no,

730
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: I have that in my back pocket.

731
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't bust that out in August. You gotta

732
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: save that.

733
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: For Ooh, maybe we'll do a spook tackular anyway, we're

734
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: I'm don't get me like on a tangent about the

735
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: cryptkeeper and tails from the crypt because I'll go all day. Okay,

736
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: where was I? Oh, good news really went off the

737
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: rails there, hold it together. Okay, So things have been

738
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: a little bit heavy lately, so let's do a little

739
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 1: bit of good news. So first, just sort of middle

740
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: good news, cautious good news. So on August fifteenth, YouTube

741
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: took a strong, bold, courageous stance, and that stances people

742
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: should not be using their platform to lie about cancer

743
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: or lie to people with cancer. Huge. So all those

744
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: videos that are like essential oils can cure cancer, or

745
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 1: berries can cure cancer, you can drink this juice little

746
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: cure cancer, those will no longer be allowed on YouTube.

747
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: Verge reports that this enforcement comes as YouTube is attempting

748
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: to streamline it's medical moderation guidelines based on what it

749
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: has learned while attempting to tackle misinformation around topics like

750
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: COVID vaccines and reproductive health. I have to say, like

751
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: to be super clear, this is like the bare minimum

752
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: that a platform like YouTube needs to be doing to

753
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: create a healthier ecosystem. You know, not allowing dangerous lies

754
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: about cancer on your platform is like a very small step,

755
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: but it is a step in the right direction, nonetheless,

756
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: So I think it's just a good, you know, a

757
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: good step. However, the real question always with YouTube is

758
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: like where whether or not they enforce it, how they

759
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: enforce it, what that enforcement looks like, what that accountability

760
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 1: looks like, Because a policy that does not have robust

761
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: enforcement is just like a wish. It's not it's not

762
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: really anything. And so Google, which owns YouTube, unfortunately, does

763
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 1: have this track record of making a big, flashy announcement

764
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: and then either failing to really enforce it in a

765
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: meaningful way or just like walking it back quietly altogether.

766
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: So but I think this would be a great policy.

767
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: I hope that we actually see YouTube enforcing this policy

768
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: a little cautiously good cautious good news.

769
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 2: It is positive news. You know, it's nice to be

770
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: reminded that at least they're interested in putting on the

771
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: front like there is a floor, there are standards. You know,

772
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: they've they've been able to get behind this controversial topic

773
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: of cancer and every just strong position that they are

774
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 2: against inaccurate information about cancer.

775
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's hard to be so brave, but

776
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: taking the stance of people shouldn't lie about cancer for profit,

777
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta it's it's brave. It's really it's

778
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: a bold stance.

779
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: It is. I just hope they have the guts to

780
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 2: see it through.

781
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: So, speaking of reproductive health, I also wanted to do

782
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of a good news roundup around abortion.

783
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: I was actually looking through my bookcase the other day

784
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: and I found this journal entry that I wrote the

785
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,439
Speaker 1: day that Roe was overturned by the Supreme Court, and boy,

786
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: that was a dark day. I was really feeling a

787
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: lot of feelings of despair. And it was reading that

788
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: entry today in twenty twenty three, a little over a

789
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 1: year later. I don't know, it just was really we

790
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 1: you know, we continued to we continue to fight, you know,

791
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: I was really distraught that day, and I didn't see

792
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: a light. I didn't see any I was like, this

793
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: is just going to be bad, and like it has

794
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: been really bad. But I did not from that entry.

795
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: I did not have the ability to think about how

796
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: things might be better in the future. And I'm happy

797
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: that here in twenty twenty three, things are. You know,

798
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: it's not all despair, because here's one good thing, and

799
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: that is emergency contraception. Emergency contraception is legal to purchase

800
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,479
Speaker 1: over the counter in all fifty states, although I actually

801
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: did some reading that suggests that even though that is true,

802
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people surveyed either didn't know about the

803
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: legality of emergency contraception over the counter in their state

804
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: or they just like weren't clear on how to get it.

805
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: So like, it is available over the counter everywhere in

806
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: the United States, and now there are thirty nine universities

807
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: across seventeen states that are putting emergency contraception in on

808
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: campus vending machines, and according to the American Society for

809
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: Emergency Contraception, at least twenty more universities are considering these

810
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: vending machines as well. Even in places like the University

811
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: of Tulsa in Oklahoma, where abortion is severely restricted. So

812
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: that was a I was like, well, that's like an

813
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: interesting use of technology to help young people have access

814
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: to reproductive care on campuses in an accessible way. Love

815
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: that very positive. And also I saw this headline over

816
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,479
Speaker 1: at NBC abortion rights have won and every election since

817
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: Roversus Wade was overturned, abortion has been on the ballot

818
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: in seven states since June twenty twenty two. In each instance,

819
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: anti abortion groups have lost. So I was feeling pretty

820
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: good coming out of that win in Ohio. You know,

821
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: it's just a good reminder that like when you know

822
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: when you're when you're confronted with a recent bout of

823
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: deep despair and then come out of it and people

824
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: are still helping, people are still organizing, people are still fighting,

825
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: We're still winning. Yeah, so it's not all bad.

826
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a really optimistic take.

827
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: You know.

828
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 2: It's like the obstacle becomes the way it's good news.

829
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: So we don't usually do this. Today is Friday, August eighteenth.

830
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: Usually we recorded on Thursdays and then put the episode

831
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: out on Fridays, but we had to come to you

832
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: with a little bit of breaking brand new just in

833
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: what's Elon done? Now news to report? And that is

834
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: because just a few hours ago, Elon Musk tweeted that

835
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: he is planning on getting rid of the block feature

836
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: on Twitter except for its use in DMS. So I

837
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,760
Speaker 1: have actually seen people suggest that this might be because

838
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: so many people are blocking verified blue check marks on Twitter,

839
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: or maybe somebody pulled Elon Musk aside and showed him

840
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: how many users have him blocked on Twitter, and he

841
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: was like, I don't like this, Let's get rid of

842
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: that feature in any event, I mean those are I

843
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 1: think both of those sound like reasonable reasons for why

844
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: he would be doing this move to me. But in

845
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: any event, he tweeted that he intends to get rid

846
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: of the block feature on Twitter. Now he just tweeted this.

847
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 1: And Elon Musk is known for being someone who doesn't

848
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: always tell the truth, Like the man lies. You can't

849
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: really report on what he says without actually talking about

850
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: the fact that he often says things and those things

851
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: do not come to fruition. So who knows if it

852
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: is really happening? Because both Google and Apple require social

853
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: media apps available on their platforms to have blocking features

854
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: on them, and so if he says he's planning on

855
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: getting rid of a blocking feature. You know, I'm no

856
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: expert in how this all works, but to me, it

857
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: means that Twitter might not be able to be included

858
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 1: on the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store

859
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: for Android. So curious to me that he's just like

860
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: saying this. I don't know if he's run this by

861
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 1: his legal team, his development team on whether or not

862
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 1: that's actually possible, or if he's just like tweeting it

863
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: and expecting the entire team to figure out how to

864
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: make it happen.

865
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like the way that he typically operates it,

866
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 2: like Tesla for sure, hopefully not SpaceX, but who knows.

867
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine going to space and he just like

868
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: gets an idea, didn't run by anybody, and like intense

869
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: for that idea to come to trudition, and you're in

870
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: space and you're like tethered to this person's decision making

871
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: while you're in space. I cannot even imagine. So when

872
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: we're talking about the ability to block people, it is

873
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: kind of a deep complicated conversation. We've talked about this before,

874
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: but since Elon Musk has taken over at Twitter, the

875
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: use of slurs like the inward has increased, and blocking

876
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: is a feature that helps people, particularly win in black folks,

877
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: queer folks, trans folks, and other marginalized people protect themselves

878
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: from harassment. Like Twitter does not have a lot that

879
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: protects people from harassment or allows people to like control

880
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: how they engage with people or not, but blocking is

881
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: one feature that is generally accepted across social media platforms

882
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: that gives the user the ability to be like, this

883
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: is not somebody I want showing up in my mentions.

884
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to see their content on social media,

885
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: giving people that little bit of control over the experience

886
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: they're having, and he's taking that away. I cannot understand

887
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: the rationale behind that other than as an endorsement of

888
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: harassment on the platform. And it's not just marginalized people, right,

889
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: it's also journalists, people who work in disinformation, like our

890
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 1: very first episode of this season speaking to Nina Jankwitz,

891
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 1: who was tapped by the Biden administration to help combat disinformation,

892
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 1: horribly harassed on social media because of it. Right, So,

893
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 1: people who are trying to do their jobs where their

894
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: jobs require them to be public facing on social media,

895
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: but their jobs also come with the threat of harassment

896
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: and online abuse. The block feature is key for people

897
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: like that, and so it's hard for me to see

898
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: this as anything other than an endorsement of Twitter as

899
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: a platform where abuse is okay and tolerated, where abuse

900
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: is treated like discourse. I've seen people showing screenshots of

901
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: the kind of harassment and abuse and slurs that they

902
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: get in their mentions, like a couple I said this

903
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: on a podcast recently that I was on. I got

904
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: called the a slur the other day, the N word, right.

905
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: I have been on the internet for a very long time,

906
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is definitely a return of

907
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: a vibe that I was kind of happy that it

908
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,959
Speaker 1: seemed like we were moving on from. But now we're back.

909
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: And so if somebody is making it their mission to

910
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: camp out in your mentions and her abuse and harassment

911
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: at you, the one feature that allows you to turn

912
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: that turn off that fire hose of abuse, he's rolling back.

913
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: And it's hard for me to not see this as

914
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 1: an endorsement of abuse. I've seen many people say on

915
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: Twitter that this would actually be their last straw with

916
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: the platform. But again, we'll see what happens, you know,

917
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: it's I mean, I don't even know if Elon is

918
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: actually planning on genuinely taking away the block feature. Notably,

919
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: this is being reported like Elon tweeted it, and then

920
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,919
Speaker 1: it's just being reported as a thing that is going

921
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: to happen a gospel truth by a lot of tech outlets,

922
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: notably Linda Yakarino. Twitter's CEO hasn't said a word about it,

923
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: didn't tweet about it, no statement about it. So it's

924
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: interesting again, like if I were the CEO of a

925
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: company and all these outlets reporting about this pretty big

926
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: change in my platform as CEO, I probably would have

927
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 1: something to say about it. Makes me wonder if Elon

928
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: just tweeted this, didn't check it with her, She had

929
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: no earlier warning that he was planning on tweeting this,

930
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 1: and now it's everywhere, so we'll see what happens. Okay,

931
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: So last week on the Roundup, I was talking about

932
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 1: how Elon Musk to me is the Chara Whitfield from

933
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 1: Real House. I was of Atlanta of tech because Chary

934
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 1: don't pay her bills and best believe Elon Musk doesn't either.

935
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: This really speaks to this theory that I have that

936
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: all of the right wing extremist types, and their behavior

937
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: can really be boiled down to and understood through the

938
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: lens of real housewives. Like their behavior always has this

939
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,560
Speaker 1: like griftiness, this stuntiness, and this drama that can really

940
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: only really rival housewives behavior. So take Jordan Peterson for instance.

941
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: If you don't know who Jordan Peterson is, He's this

942
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of right wing traditionalist who has really made his

943
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: thing talking about things like Wokhism and cancel culture and

944
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 1: now having a curveer model on the cover of Sports

945
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: Illustrated is offensive to him and is like an attack

946
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: on everything that we hold true in our society. And

947
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: oh my god, anyway, that's Jordan Peterson. So Jordan Peterson

948
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: is being accused of cherry picking bits from scathing reviews

949
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: of his new book and misrepresenting them as positive on

950
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: the blurb on the back of the book. Like this.

951
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: One blurb on the back of his book was from

952
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: a review in The New Statesman by Joanna Thomas Carr,

953
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 1: which said Jordan Peterson's new book was a quote philosophy

954
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: of the meeting of life, but it didn't mention that

955
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: that specific line described that philosophy as quote bonkers, so

956
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: he just cut out the bonker's part. It was like, oh,

957
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: it's a philosophy on the meaning of life dot dot dot.

958
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: That is fucking bonkers, pretty important relevant context for what

959
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 1: she was trying to say in this review. I went

960
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: back and read that entire review, and it is objectively

961
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: a review panning the book. There is no way to

962
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: read it as a positive review. It is very much

963
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: panning that book. Joanna Thomas Carr said that using that

964
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: one sentence from her twenty five hundred word review is

965
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 1: a quote, gross misrepresentation of what she said. She said,

966
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: I don't have it in me to write some casually

967
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 1: witty thing about how horrifying this is, and that the

968
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 1: blurb should be removed. Okay, so you know who might

969
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: have inspired Jordan Peterson to do this?

970
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: A Real Housewife lou and.

971
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 1: Della Septs from Real Housewives of New New York. Because

972
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: when lu Banne was doing her cabaret show, The New

973
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: York Times reported that one of her cabaret shows was

974
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: sold out, inspiring underlined her team to add a second show. Well,

975
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 1: guess what Luanne did. She blew up her poster had

976
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: blown up the word inspiring in quotation marks, and then

977
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: attributed that to the New York Times. So you would

978
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: think that the New York Times had called her cabaret

979
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 1: show inspiring, but what they really said was she was

980
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: she was inspired to add a second show. So I

981
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: actually am here for the bold face lying when a

982
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 1: housewife is as shameless as Luanne, to just like outright

983
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: misrepresent something like that, I kind of love it, like

984
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 1: I love the delusion, where we love a delusional queen.

985
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: And so if Elon Musk is the Chara Whitfield of

986
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: tech CEOs, Jordan Peterson is the Luenne de la SEPs,

987
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: Countess Luanne of like right wing grievance monger grifters, So

988
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: I truly think there is something to this idea. And

989
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: if you're listening and you've got an idea about who

990
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: in the right wing griftovers might have a Housewives doppelganger,

991
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,439
Speaker 1: I deeply need to hear this information. You can write

992
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: into us, you can DM me if it's good, we'll

993
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 1: read it on the show. I deeply deeply think there

994
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: is something here. You know, We've got two. I think

995
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: we can flesh out the entire Bravo universe using these

996
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: right wing grifter types.

997
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: I love this. I can't wait to see what people

998
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 2: write in for.

999
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: So before we wrap, I have a quick public service

1000
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: announcement for everyone listening. If you're listening to this in

1001
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: the United States and you have used Facebook in the

1002
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: last sixteen years, you can get a piece of a

1003
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: seven hundred and twenty five million dollars settlement. That is

1004
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: because Facebook improperly shared your information, and my information, and

1005
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: all of our information with third party sources such as

1006
00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,240
Speaker 1: advertisers and data brokers. Well, Facebook says that they didn't

1007
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: do that. They're denying any liability or wrongdoing. Surprise surprise. However,

1008
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: they did still create a class action website set up

1009
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: to pay out this money to all of us who

1010
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: used Facebook. So that means US residents who used Facebook

1011
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: between May twenty fourth, two thousand and seven and December

1012
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: twenty second, twenty twenty two can file for a monetary

1013
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: claim as long as they do so before Friday, August

1014
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: twenty fifth. That as a week from the day this

1015
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: episode is dropping at eleven fifty nine pm Pacific time.

1016
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,919
Speaker 1: Everybody should do this. I'm gonna do this. I don't

1017
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: know if you're on Facebook, if you run Facebook at

1018
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: that time, Mike, but you should do this. You should

1019
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: tell your friends and your family to do this. I

1020
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 1: believe that everybody should do this. It only takes a

1021
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: few minutes. Just go to tangoty dot com slash zuckbucks.

1022
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: That's tangoty dot com, ta Nngoti dot com slash zuckbucks

1023
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: and fill out the form from Facebook. It only takes

1024
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: a few minutes. You don't need to have that much information.

1025
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: It is not clear how much money you might get

1026
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: paid out. It might not even really be a lot.

1027
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: It might be like ten dollars. Like I always do

1028
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: these settlement things when when I gets a chance to

1029
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: do them, because I feel like it's sometimes it can

1030
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: feel like we don't have a lot of ways to

1031
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: like hit these big tech companies in their pocketbooks. So

1032
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: I make a point of every single time there's any

1033
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: even if it's gonna be five dollars, I buy a

1034
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: coffee and I'm like, yeah, take that, bezos, and buy

1035
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: a coffee on your dime. So everybody should do this.

1036
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: It's not clear how much money you can get. I

1037
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: think it depends on how many people submit a claim.

1038
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,880
Speaker 1: But you should all submit a claim that is money

1039
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: owed to us for wrongdoing that Facebook has yet to

1040
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: admit to. But it's just being like, okay, fine, we'll

1041
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: just give a couple million dollars. Let's let's just say

1042
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: seven hundred and twenty five million dollars. It is enough.

1043
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: I'll we didn't do anything wrong, but if we did,

1044
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 1: here's a little something. And so even though that is

1045
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: a drop in the bucket to Facebook, I think it's

1046
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: very important to like get what little we can from them,

1047
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: and that money is owed to us. So go to Tango,

1048
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,560
Speaker 1: do dot com slashes bucks. Fill out that form get your.

1049
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: Money, bridget. I think this might have been like the

1050
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: most positive news roundup we've ever done.

1051
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can put a little zuck bucks in

1052
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: your pocket. I'm here for that. That's always positive.

1053
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like some good news about reproductive rights, some decent

1054
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 2: laws that are actually like legit helping the children, and

1055
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: then a couple of zuckbucks.

1056
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: A couple of zuckbucks always a good place to end, remember, folks.

1057
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: The deadline is Friday, August twenty fifth, a week from

1058
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: the day this episode drops at eleven fifty nine pm

1059
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: specific time. Go fill that out. Thank you for listening, Mike,

1060
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. If you would like to

1061
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: support the show, you can always do so at patreon

1062
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: dot com slash tangoty for ad free bonus content. I

1063
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 1: am given my most wild takes, maybe my crypt keeper impression.

1064
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: I don't know yet. Please check it out. Thank you

1065
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: for listening. Thank you for being here, Mike. Be well.

1066
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to support the show, check

1067
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: out our merch store at tangoti dot com slash store.

1068
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

1069
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: just want to say hi, You can reach us at

1070
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 1: Hello at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts

1071
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: for today's episode at TENG Goody dot com. There Are

1072
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.

1073
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by

1074
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: Joey pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Tari Harrison

1075
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almada is our

1076
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want

1077
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review.

1078
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 3: Us on Apple Podcasts.

1079
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app

1080
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts