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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I want to get

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Speaker 1: to right away to our next guest. A lot to

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Speaker 1: cover here, Oh Desh Pondae, Founder and Chief investment Officer

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Speaker 1: of Centerstone Investors, by thanks so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 1: We've got a lift to the market here. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, year to date, one of the primary

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Speaker 1: characteristics of this market has been uncertainty slash volatility UM is,

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Speaker 1: how do you deal with that in your portfolio? It

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Speaker 1: just seems like we're getting major, major moves UM pretty

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Speaker 1: much on a daily basis. We have a vix at

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Speaker 1: just above thirty. How do you deal with that in

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Speaker 1: your portfolio? Well? Hi, well, good morning, first of all,

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Speaker 1: and thanks for having me and at center Stone. You

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Speaker 1: know we're them up investors, so we go stock by

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Speaker 1: stock um one of them one of the biggest you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess risk to portfolio this year has been you know,

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Speaker 1: whether or not you have exposure Russia, which we don't.

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Speaker 1: Another risk that's kind of uh, you know, you can

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Speaker 1: see it overnight. For instance in China is how much

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Speaker 1: exposure you have to Chinese stocks and we have zero?

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Speaker 1: Um And you know, so in that sense, even though yeah,

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Speaker 1: the markets are down a lot, our funds are, I

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Speaker 1: mean down, you know slightly. UM. So for the most part,

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Speaker 1: just being away from the riskiest parts of the market

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Speaker 1: it works against you. For instance in two thousand twenty

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Speaker 1: one where those many of those stocks did fine or

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Speaker 1: even better than fine. And then you know the other

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Speaker 1: other environments that's did to be away from risk, and

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Speaker 1: our style is such that we you know, we tend

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Speaker 1: to be somewhat cautious when it comes to balance sheets

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Speaker 1: and management teams. So in that sense, you know, just

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Speaker 1: kind of by coincident, almost we don't have that much exposure.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you then about growth, because I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: that you're exposed to the economy, the US economy, UM,

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Speaker 1: what kind of growth do you expect? Are you worried

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Speaker 1: about a recession next year? Yeah? I think what to me?

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Speaker 1: And you know, take this with a grain of salt,

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Speaker 1: because I'm a stock picker. I'm not a geo political

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Speaker 1: strategist or whatever. But this this reminds me a lot

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Speaker 1: of September eleventh, in the sense that the US economy,

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Speaker 1: the global economy, was already weakening in in two thousand

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Speaker 1: one when that shock happened, and then there was a

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Speaker 1: response the market rebounded, but then the ramifications of a

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Speaker 1: weakening economy with a slowdown and whatnot meant that the

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Speaker 1: stock market had trouble for another year, even a little

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Speaker 1: bit more. And I kind of, you know, so far

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Speaker 1: the playbook of the late nineties and early two thousands

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Speaker 1: has been, you know, the one to use. And I

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Speaker 1: would not be surprised that there's some sort of piece

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Speaker 1: deal something later this week the stock market has some lift,

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Speaker 1: but the damage has kind of been done. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've got a massive amount of inflation pressure. It's just

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Speaker 1: been added to the economy is already weakening the stock market.

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Speaker 1: You know, in Europe the stock markets at twelve times

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Speaker 1: normalized earnings with a three percent yield, So one could

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Speaker 1: make a case that there's somewhat um better position to

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Speaker 1: handle this the US markets that twenty times aren't with

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Speaker 1: a one and a half percent of it and yield

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Speaker 1: is there. There are there opportunities that you can tell

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Speaker 1: us about that you can share with us as bottoms

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Speaker 1: up stock pickers is something that you know, you're you're

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Speaker 1: pumped about as you come into work on this Monday.

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Speaker 1: We have a whole bunch of companies that are that

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Speaker 1: are so I'll just focus on some that are in

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Speaker 1: the United States where that are easy to buy in

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Speaker 1: the US markets. We're a bunch of companies that that

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Speaker 1: I like where we have um you know, they're kind

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Speaker 1: of isolated there. The outcome is more dependent on management

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Speaker 1: decision making rather than interest rates and what happens in Russia.

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Speaker 1: You know. One good example of c d K, which

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Speaker 1: is a software company that provides UM you know basically

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Speaker 1: customer management inventory management tools to the auto dealerships in

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Speaker 1: the United States with a big fifty six percent market

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Speaker 1: share depending on this region. Another company is Parago, which

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Speaker 1: UM I thalked about before, but you know they're recovering now.

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Speaker 1: They're they're a manufacturer of of of private label UH

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Speaker 1: generic drugs in the US. Communister like the basically the

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Speaker 1: tail and awls and stuff that you would get off

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Speaker 1: brand in a CBS or an Amazon day. There again

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Speaker 1: Bust fifty market that was up. So that's Papa Romeo

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Speaker 1: golf Oscar and the other one is Charlie Delta kilo

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Speaker 1: of a. Are you in the reopening trade kind of business?

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Speaker 1: Because I just spent a week out in Utah skiing

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Speaker 1: and it is wide open out there. The economy's ripping.

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Speaker 1: It is the best attendance year they've had ever. Are

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Speaker 1: you in that reopening trade? I'd say directly, we're about

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Speaker 1: exposed to reopening stocks. Another that would be considered some

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Speaker 1: hybrid but mostly self help companies that are undergoing some

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Speaker 1: um you know, like these two companies have mentioned undergoing

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Speaker 1: a lot of management uh sort of help to to

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Speaker 1: re orient these companies that have also been somewhat buffeted

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Speaker 1: by COVID. So roughly, we have exposed to the um

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Speaker 1: more of a reopening story. And that's globally, not just

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Speaker 1: in the United States, but in Europe, parts of Asia,

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Speaker 1: and the remainder of the portfolios are essentially we have

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Speaker 1: gold treasure bond or treasure notes cash, some growth cut

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Speaker 1: type companies. But but but it sounds like you like

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Speaker 1: companies that are that have sort of self reflected and

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Speaker 1: reassessed in our executing on that. Yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 1: would much rather have a business where the outcome is

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Speaker 1: dependent on their own actions rather than external factors. That's

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Speaker 1: the bulk of our portfolio. All right, Abbey, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. We always appreciate getting a few minutes of

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Speaker 1: your time. Abbe Dishpande, Founder and Chief investment Officer of

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Speaker 1: Centerstone Investors. We want to get right to our next conversation.

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Speaker 1: This will be the conversation of the morning, if not

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Speaker 1: the day. On Bloomberg Radio. Markian lup Kinski, advisor to

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Speaker 1: the Minister of Defense of Ukraine, joins us. He is

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine as we speak. Mr Lupkinski, Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We'd really appreciate geting your perspective.

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Speaker 1: What is the absolute latest on the ground from Ukraine?

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you so much for having having me

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Speaker 1: at Boom boo uh. And the situation in Ukraine remained

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Speaker 1: very hot. So a lot of Ukrainian cities are on

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Speaker 1: the attack of Russian aviation, Russian missiles. So this morning

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Speaker 1: Key was attacked with the missiles and this is terrible

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Speaker 1: because they are trying to to reach civil facilities. So

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Speaker 1: and again hercu is in in terrible situation. And the

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Speaker 1: but the most, the most dangerous and the tragic, I

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Speaker 1: would say situation is in Mariupo because Mariupo is blocked

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Speaker 1: totally but by Russian troops and the situation there is

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Speaker 1: very hot. So are you, for your information, are you

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Speaker 1: having any success getting refugees out evacuating cities or are

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Speaker 1: the Russians continuing to um, you know, bomb those uh,

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Speaker 1: those passageways. We are trying to establish so called humanitarian

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Speaker 1: corridors from all blocked cities or from cities which are

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Speaker 1: under attack. So we we managed to establish around twelve

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Speaker 1: such corridors and we're trying to get people Ukrainians from

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Speaker 1: that cities to the to the west and part to

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Speaker 1: uk of Ukraine to Ukrainian. But so but these people

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Speaker 1: are on the attack of Russians, they are shooting on them.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday American journalist was killed also because of both of Russians.

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Speaker 1: Russians attacked him, they shot on him. And situation is

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Speaker 1: not so easy. So we're trying to assist over people.

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Speaker 1: So for for Ukrainian, for Ukrainian government, the most important

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Speaker 1: thing is to protect the people, to rescue them, and

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Speaker 1: that that was also point number one during today's negotiations

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Speaker 1: with the Russian delegation. So Mr Lupkovski, were you are

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Speaker 1: now in your third week of this battle this world,

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Speaker 1: and based upon what you've learned so far, and based

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Speaker 1: upon the conversations that you and the Ukrainian government have

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Speaker 1: had with the Russian delegation, what do you think Mr Putin? Really? Once?

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Speaker 1: I think that you krane only the something, only the

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Speaker 1: stage in his uh intention to get more. I think

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Speaker 1: that he what he wants to re establish Soviet Union

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Speaker 1: and nobody can be secure right now. So my, my,

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Speaker 1: my forecast is very pessimistic. So he will not stop

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Speaker 1: bombing and attacking Ukraine. After Ukraine will will fall, but

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Speaker 1: he will fight to the end. Yes, he will go.

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Speaker 1: He will go to Baltic States, to Poland, probably to Moldova.

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Speaker 1: So this is his intention and this is terrible. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what we're hearing is that the Ukrainian defense

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Speaker 1: has been much stronger than President Putin had expected. Um,

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Speaker 1: how how how long can you preserve that strength? Because

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Speaker 1: clearly Russia has so much in terms of troops and

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Speaker 1: armament that it has yet to bring to bear. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So uh, today is the nineteenth day of our heroic resistance,

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Speaker 1: resistance by Ukrainian armed forces, and Putting never expected that

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Speaker 1: he will he will find such kinds of resistance and

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Speaker 1: his plans. His plan was to take Kiev in okarkive

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Speaker 1: In in two three days, so but that never happened.

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Speaker 1: We still have enough power to protect ourselves. But from

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Speaker 1: the other side, the you know, hope, Uh, the Russian

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Speaker 1: troops are numerous and they're bringing a lot of weapons

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Speaker 1: to Ukrainian territory. So that's why Uh, Ukrainian forces are

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Speaker 1: in critical need of anti tank weapons, defense missile systems,

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Speaker 1: ammunition rathers and intelligence systems. So we're really looking forward

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Speaker 1: to get all these all these tools from other partners.

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Speaker 1: And again this discussion around MIX cannot take too much

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Speaker 1: time because if we will not get that assistance, it

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Speaker 1: will be too late. If you do get the MiGs. No,

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Speaker 1: if if you do get the mix, or how how

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Speaker 1: will will it? Will you be ready to fly them?

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Speaker 1: Will you be ready to operate them? Will you be

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Speaker 1: ready to maintain them? Sure? If you will get mixed,

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Speaker 1: we will we will close the sky over Ukraine, we

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Speaker 1: will be able to operate them, to fly with them,

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Speaker 1: and we will be able to shut on on missiles

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Speaker 1: and protect Ukraine from the air because right now we

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Speaker 1: are quite good on the ground and the but but

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Speaker 1: the air site is still very big, big part of

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Speaker 1: of of our our resistance. So Mr. Lupkivski, give us

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Speaker 1: a state of the talks that you're having with the

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Speaker 1: Russian counterparts. There are any progress being made? How just

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Speaker 1: give us a status report. So, uh, you know, our

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Speaker 1: negotiations with the Russians took place today and there was

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Speaker 1: taking a technical break, so we will proceed to speak

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Speaker 1: to them tomorrow. But other positions, our position positions remain unchanged.

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Speaker 1: So a position of Ukrainian side is to establish to

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Speaker 1: achieve peace, immediate ceasefire, withdrawal of all Russian troops after all,

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Speaker 1: and only after that we can talk about some some

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Speaker 1: relations or political settlements. So I can say that at

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Speaker 1: this stage there is no big, big progress, but negotiations

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Speaker 1: are ongoing, and as a diplomat, I still believe that

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Speaker 1: the negotiations are the only way how we can solve

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Speaker 1: the and how we can protect Ukraine from the from

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Speaker 1: the Russian aggression. So you you mentioned the threat from

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Speaker 1: the skies. Give us your thoughts or kind of the

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Speaker 1: thinking within Ukraine and diplomat circles about a no fly zone.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean to you? Um and how important

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Speaker 1: would that be? It is important, but I'm quite skeptical

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Speaker 1: because almost every day we're trying to uh to to

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Speaker 1: you know, to close the sky over Ukraine. And this

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Speaker 1: is crucial for us because in that case, but in

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Speaker 1: that case we can, we can. We also understand the

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Speaker 1: the over threats which are coming with that, for for NATO,

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Speaker 1: for PONATO countries. But from the other side, let me

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Speaker 1: remind it, yesterday almost devoted with the NATO States was

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Speaker 1: under attack because of of missiles on the peace keeping

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Speaker 1: International peacekeeping center near Ukrainian Polish body. So nobody is

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Speaker 1: safe now. And I think that we are too late

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Speaker 1: with the all these you know, discussions to to close

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Speaker 1: the sky or not. We should be very very you know,

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Speaker 1: tough in that. But because what we will do if

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Speaker 1: one day put in will will will get the victory

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Speaker 1: and he will appear and on the boarder with the

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Speaker 1: with the NATO countries, and so you know, that's why

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Speaker 1: we're really looking forward to to to get more assistance

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Speaker 1: and to be brave, you need from from other partners

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Speaker 1: to show how the day are brave as Ukrainian stuff.

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Speaker 1: Can I can I just ask because we heard from

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Speaker 1: a US defense official UM the Pentagon thought that it

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Speaker 1: wasn't really clear if Ukraine did need additional fixed wing

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Speaker 1: fighter aircraft liked like the MiGs that Poland offered earlier

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Speaker 1: this week. You're saying you definitely want those MiGs. You

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Speaker 1: have the ability to use them, and you could create

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Speaker 1: a no fly zone yourself without NATO involvement if you

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Speaker 1: had the equipment correct correct, So correct, absolutely, And if

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Speaker 1: we can get mixed from one side and we can

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Speaker 1: get all assistance you can, you can provide us intense

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Speaker 1: to protect our sky. We will be able to protect

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Speaker 1: Ukraine ourselves. So Mark, and from your perspective again, Day nineteen,

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Speaker 1: what would be a victory for Ukraine here realistically, given

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Speaker 1: where we are right now, what would be a victory

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Speaker 1: for Ukraine? Very tough question. But for us, the victory

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Speaker 1: will be then Russian troops will leave Ukraine, uh they

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Speaker 1: then they will stop shooting on on other people. So

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm optimistic in that regard so I think that

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Speaker 1: we will win, we will survive. We we we we

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Speaker 1: are very motivated nation. And I'm I'm impressed with our

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Speaker 1: army which is really good and on the ground and

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Speaker 1: protecting the other people. So I think that the the

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Speaker 1: the final final victory will be then Ukraine will bring

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Speaker 1: back other territories including Crimea and the and the donants

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Speaker 1: can look on skur reagents. At this stage this is

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Speaker 1: not realistic. But from the other side, this is the

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Speaker 1: this is the the points for discussion with the with

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Speaker 1: the Russians and the again via Via absolutely focused on negotiations.

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Speaker 1: We we are not we are protecting ourselves. We are

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Speaker 1: we are descending our countries. We are not attacking anybody.

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Speaker 1: So and we we but we we we need that negotiations. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the President Zelenski was very clear

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Speaker 1: in that, and he's staying in Kiev together with the government,

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Speaker 1: with the parliament, and we are ready to protect our

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Speaker 1: capital market. And Lupkivski, thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate you taking the time and giving us

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Speaker 1: the latest from Ukraine. Mark and Lupkivski, advisor to the

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Speaker 1: Minister of Defense of Ukraine, let's check in with Ed Smith.

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Speaker 1: He's partner president of Union Square Advisors. Ted, we came

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Speaker 1: into the year and everybody's preaching volatility. Boy with a right,

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Speaker 1: what's your market call right here in the middle of March. Well,

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Speaker 1: we think we're going to continue to see quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of volatility yet, Paul and Matt, thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me today. But we also think that it's gonna

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Speaker 1: play itself out a little bit here in the first

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Speaker 1: in the second quarter, where things will likely get a

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Speaker 1: little calmer in the second half of the year, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get back to what we hope will be a

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Speaker 1: greater degree of normality. So is the Fed going to

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Speaker 1: throw a wrench in those plans? I mean, is the

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Speaker 1: Fed going to aggressively hike us into a recession or

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Speaker 1: are they going to turn tail and run at the

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Speaker 1: first sign of real economic pain. I think they're going

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Speaker 1: to be measured about it. I think they're gonna try really,

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Speaker 1: really hard not to drive us into that recessionary territory. Um.

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Speaker 1: They've got a lot of conflicting signals out there between

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Speaker 1: what's happening with inflation and prices across the board, certainly

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Speaker 1: with oil that everybody with a car stealing pain about UM.

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Speaker 1: But we're also of seeing, you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: other factors. Obviously, the situation in Ukraine, UM, various aspects

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Speaker 1: of the overall economy are sending those mixed signals. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's got a pretty tough job to do.

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Speaker 1: But I think job one is making sure that we

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Speaker 1: curb inflation, and job too is making sure that we

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Speaker 1: don't work so hard that, to your point, we we

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Speaker 1: drive us back into a processionary territory, all right, ted,

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Speaker 1: Given that backdrop in and there's a many many bricks

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Speaker 1: in the wall of worry these days, where are you

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Speaker 1: and your partners at Union Square? Where are you kind

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Speaker 1: of allocating capital these days? We're focused a lot we

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Speaker 1: First of all, we're a tech focused investment banks, so

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Speaker 1: we focused primarily in that sector. In the tech sector itself,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of activity continuing in cybersecurity. That's

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Speaker 1: always a hot space, but certainly again with the threats

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Speaker 1: UH in and around Ukraine, we've seen even a greater

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Speaker 1: surge there. We see a lot of work in and

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Speaker 1: around customer experience management, customer engagement given sort of the

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Speaker 1: new reality of how consumers interact with brands. We're seeing

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Speaker 1: a lot of work around healthcare and healthcare I really

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Speaker 1: the rules of healthcare and i T have been rewritten

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Speaker 1: as a result of the pandemic, and so we're seeing

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Speaker 1: a lot of really new and interesting companies. And then

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Speaker 1: has certainly been the case over the past two or

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Speaker 1: three years with no signs of baiting, a lot of

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Speaker 1: work in and around fintech and next generation banking at canans.

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Speaker 1: Are those all good inflation hedges? I think they're gonna

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Speaker 1: there's I think they're different, obviously, I think, but I

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Speaker 1: think generally they are sector's poised for growth. And as

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Speaker 1: a result, if you think the right way to a

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Speaker 1: hedge against inflation, which we certainly do, is to invest

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Speaker 1: for growth so that you can outpace that inflation, we

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Speaker 1: think those are great sectors for ongoing growth. All right,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: We'll chat with you again. I first started learning about

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Speaker 1: e s G investing, environment, social governance probably a dozen

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Speaker 1: years ago talking to my institutional clients in Europe, and

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Speaker 1: they seem to be first and foremost on that. But

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Speaker 1: since then it's just become all the rage and global

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Speaker 1: asset management investors want to invest in E s G

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Speaker 1: friendly assets. Jonathan Maxwell, he does this for a living.

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Speaker 1: He's a CEO and co founder of Sustainable Development Capital.

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Again. E s G is a big, big, fast

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Speaker 1: growing part of the institutional investor marketplace. But I kind

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Speaker 1: of feel like, first with the pandemic and then now

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Speaker 1: maybe with the war in Ukraine, it's kind of been

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Speaker 1: pushed to the back burner. Just give us a status

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Speaker 1: from your perspective of how this market is in terms

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Speaker 1: of size and in terms of growth parameters. Yeah, thank

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Speaker 1: you very much for having me on today. So we've

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Speaker 1: seen a huge movement over the last ten fifteen years

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Speaker 1: in sustainable investment, and one of the largest markets has

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Speaker 1: been energy. That's been as much, if not more investment

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Speaker 1: in clean energy in the last ten past years then

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Speaker 1: that has been in conventional energy, and we've seen that

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Speaker 1: accelerat over the last two or three years. I think

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Speaker 1: what's going on right now um on a a political

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Speaker 1: front creates two directions. One, you know, is a realization

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Speaker 1: that an energy system which is or gas and call

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Speaker 1: you know, there's going to be now going to have

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Speaker 1: to be a tremendous, restably balancing of energy sourcing in

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Speaker 1: Europe and potentially in other markets in particular, that could

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Speaker 1: be a short term headwind for clean energy. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, clean energy and in particular a bit more

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Speaker 1: efficient with how we use energy, bearing in mind that

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Speaker 1: we waste most of it. In a clean energy and

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Speaker 1: energy efficiency both very important parts as sustainable investment model.

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Speaker 1: I think you're going to be enormously important to the

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Speaker 1: economies of Europe and indeed of North American other markets. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can understand that, Um, you know, Americans

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Speaker 1: are going to want to drill, baby drill when they

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Speaker 1: see the price at the pump, and that Europeans are

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Speaker 1: going to be asking their leaders why on earth did

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Speaker 1: you make us so dependent on Russian gas? Um? And

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Speaker 1: you're gonna need to see restructuring due to that. But

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Speaker 1: it seems to me clean energy just has a huge

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Speaker 1: tail wind. I mean, how many people are going to

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Speaker 1: want to be installing their own, um, you know, solar

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Speaker 1: panels and batteries, especially in Europe as they faced the

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Speaker 1: very real prospect of their power getting cut. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think there've been I agree with you, and I

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Speaker 1: think there are sort of three main drivers. And these

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Speaker 1: drivers by the way, I think affect the United States

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Speaker 1: as as well as affecting Europe, and the three main

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Speaker 1: drivers really have been about security, resilience, cost, and carbon

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Speaker 1: I think. And security in the United States has been

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Speaker 1: a longstanding factor. Of course, with with whether Superstorm Sandy

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Speaker 1: Louisiana and Texas last year, so you know whether severe

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Speaker 1: weather events have been big problems for energy resilience. But

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Speaker 1: of course now geopolitics has really crashed home here in Europe.

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Speaker 1: So decentralized energy, generating energy close to or right where

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Speaker 1: you need it, um you know, in decentralized cleaner solutions

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Speaker 1: incredibly important. Second of all, by decentralizing energy, bringing it

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Speaker 1: closer to where you need it, you lose less of

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Speaker 1: it in generating it and transmitting it and distributing it.

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Speaker 1: The way that we've built the global energy system is

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Speaker 1: generally supplying energy into a centralized system, it creates incredible losses.

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Speaker 1: There's an extraordinary number where we're probably wasting between sixty

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Speaker 1: and of the world energy somewhere through the points of generation,

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Speaker 1: transmission and distribution. So actually to start with generating it

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Speaker 1: closer to where you need it, it's more secure and

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Speaker 1: it's actually cheaper, and of course along with the loss

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Speaker 1: of wastage, it also produces pollution and carbon. So those

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Speaker 1: are really the three main drivers. You know, it's lower cost,

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Speaker 1: lower carbon, more resilient energy solutions, and that's really what

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Speaker 1: we drive out with regards to sustainable energy investing, lower cost,

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Speaker 1: lower carbon, more reliable, more secure sources of energy supply.

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Speaker 1: So Johnson, give us an example of maybe a recent

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Speaker 1: investment you've made that kind of maybe goes to some

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Speaker 1: of those issues. Yeah. So, I mean in the United States,

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Speaker 1: we have the portfolios of solar and storage investments that

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Speaker 1: we've made where we're generating energy solar power combined with

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Speaker 1: storage on rooftops, carports, ground mount where we can link

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Speaker 1: it directly into end buildings and its dramatically reduces cost

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Speaker 1: and carbon. We've got in the United States investments where

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Speaker 1: we're recycling what would otherwise be pollution, so blast furnace

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Speaker 1: gases coming off with steel mills and using those as

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Speaker 1: the fuel to generate power and steam back for the

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Speaker 1: for the steel facilities. In Europe we have on site

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Speaker 1: generation using natural gas, bio gas, um in in due course, hydrogen,

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Speaker 1: ground and air source heat, solar, All of these technologies

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Speaker 1: can dramatically reduce the amount of cost and carbon involved

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Speaker 1: with generating energy, as well as increasing the energy security

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Speaker 1: that's on the supply side. On the demand side, change

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Speaker 1: the way that buildings, industry transport use energy. Seventy of

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Speaker 1: the worlds energy is used in buildings, industry and transport.

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Speaker 1: Most people think about energy as the grids think about

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Speaker 1: the end user. The buildings industry and transport can use

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Speaker 1: better lights, better heating, ventilation, air conditioning, and of course,

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Speaker 1: electrification of cars is a much more efficient way of

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Speaker 1: driving cars efficient compared to oil from a well efficient Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Always love talking

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Speaker 1: about sustainable investment. Lots of opportunities out there. Jonathan Maxwell,

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Speaker 1: CEO and co founder of Sustainable Development Capital. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and

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00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform

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Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt

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Speaker 1: Miller nine seven twenty three and on false Sweeney I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can

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Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio