Speaker 1: Welcome back to bully Ball, presented by DraftKings. I'm Rachel Nichols,
Speaker 1: that as always is mister DeMarcus Cousins and Boog. You
Speaker 1: can tell we're on the last one of the season
Speaker 1: because the plant is gone. It's just a white wall
Speaker 1: behind you. It's all you can give. You've left it
Speaker 1: all out on the court. I'm glad you're home, man,
Speaker 1: but I do miss the plant.
Speaker 2: Plants in stores right now. So you know he'll be
Speaker 2: back for next season. You know he went on an
Speaker 2: early vacation. We're all headed Todd vacations. Season's over, so
Speaker 2: you know this is the last one for this year.
Speaker 2: So I'm excited.
Speaker 1: You know who's not tired, Boogie Cousins. The Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1: They are still waiting for their parade on Friday. They
Speaker 1: are celebrating. I'm here in Boston. The streets were crazy
Speaker 1: last night. The arena was hopping. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: they threw Game four. I mean, obviously they did not
Speaker 1: ro Game four, but the idea that they got to
Speaker 1: win on their floor, I just think is so special,
Speaker 1: and you could just the outpouring was incredible last night.
Speaker 1: What impressed you most from everything you saw.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever seen a more complete season
Speaker 2: from a team, just the way they dominated throughout the
Speaker 2: regular season. I mean, can we sit here and say,
Speaker 2: this may be the first team that really didn't face
Speaker 2: any type of adversity and if it did, it was
Speaker 2: you know, it was minimal. And I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: in a negative way. I'm more so saying it like
Speaker 2: this team was that good, Like they never really struggled
Speaker 2: at any point during the season, even when with some
Speaker 2: injuries they were able to, you know, maintain keep afloat.
Speaker 2: But this was probably one of the best seasons from
Speaker 2: start to finish that I've seen from a professional team.
Speaker 2: And it's been very, very impressive. So, you know, even
Speaker 2: considering how great the playoff run was, just as a
Speaker 2: complete hole, I think this team deserves credit. They've obviously
Speaker 2: learned from their past seasons, They've learned from their past mistakes,
Speaker 2: and you know, they figured it out. They figured it
Speaker 2: out at the right time. They put the perfect pieces
Speaker 2: in place to make everything compliment you know, each other,
Speaker 2: and you know, this was the perfect season for the
Speaker 2: Boston Celtics.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it's really adversity anymore now that
Speaker 1: they've won. I think it's more just talking about that
Speaker 1: they crushed everything in their path, Like there wasn't a
Speaker 1: lot of oh my god, you know the wheels are
Speaker 1: falling off moments, not because no one challenged them. I
Speaker 1: think the Dallas Mavericks were a pretty huge challenge for them,
Speaker 1: but just because they were that good and we saw it,
Speaker 1: of course with the twenty sixteen Warriors. I mean, there've
Speaker 1: been teams like this, but I just it's super impressive.
Speaker 1: Wire to wire from the very beginning of the season
Speaker 1: to the last day of the season, they were ahead
Speaker 1: of everybody else. And you know, you can't win that
Speaker 1: eighteenth banner and anymore pressive way than that best offensive
Speaker 1: rating ever is what they're going to finish with, top
Speaker 1: five in point differential, sixty four and eighteen eighty and
Speaker 1: twenty one including the playoffs on the season. I just,
Speaker 1: you know, anyway, and there's still people I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: I still I turned on my TV this morning and
Speaker 1: I still saw people talking about like, well, they had
Speaker 1: an easy path because of all the injuries in the
Speaker 1: Eastern Conference. You know what I'm done with that? Like, yes,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, the East is easier than the West.
Speaker 1: Guess what, This is not the first season that that
Speaker 1: has been the case, and it will not be the
Speaker 1: last season that has been the case. Next year the
Speaker 1: West is going to be just a dogfight. But they
Speaker 1: beat everyone in front of them, and they faced a
Speaker 1: Mavericks team that a lot of people picked to win
Speaker 1: this title. You go back, a lot of the picks
Speaker 1: before this finals were for the Mavericks, which you and
Speaker 1: I didn't understand. We talked about it the day before
Speaker 1: the finals started. What were these people looking at just
Speaker 1: the rosters alone?
Speaker 3: You know what it is, rag.
Speaker 2: We live in a time to where you know, whatever's hot,
Speaker 2: whatever's popular in the moment, that's what people roll with.
Speaker 2: And no knock to the Mavericks and their incredible season,
Speaker 2: but nobody really leading up into the playoffs had them
Speaker 2: as a team that we thought would win it all
Speaker 2: or even really be in the finals. For the most part,
Speaker 2: we thought that would be the nuggest team. Some people
Speaker 2: had the Clippers, some people had you know, the Sons.
Speaker 2: It was a lot. It was a lot of different
Speaker 2: names being thrown out outside of the Meerican Mavericks hit
Speaker 2: this stride. Yes, the Mavericks hit this stride and then
Speaker 2: they became America's most popular team. I mean a season ago,
Speaker 2: two season ago, Kyrie was the most hated gowns planet.
Speaker 2: Now now he's leading the charges America's team right now.
Speaker 2: So it's we live this is just the time and age.
Speaker 2: We live in one minute, one in one moment, they
Speaker 2: can hate you. In the next moment, you're You're the
Speaker 2: most popular thing walking. So I think we just I
Speaker 2: think we're a victim of you know what's hot at
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of.
Speaker 2: People were rolling with the Mavericks and deservingly so. They
Speaker 2: played incredible, they performed at a high level, and they
Speaker 2: were a very very entertaining team to watch.
Speaker 3: So understanding, understandingly.
Speaker 2: So, but when you when it comes to the reality
Speaker 2: of it and you really look at that Boston Celtics team,
Speaker 2: anybody that really really knows who can analyze the game
Speaker 2: for what it is knew that Boston was a favorite
Speaker 2: to win it this year.
Speaker 1: And look, Luca, I still think, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: just going off, who is the best player on the court,
Speaker 1: I still think it's Luka doncc I mean, he didn't
Speaker 1: perform the best in the finals but he is the
Speaker 1: all around best player on the court. But the Celtics
Speaker 1: showed that's not always true that the best team with
Speaker 1: the best player wins. That this was the best team,
Speaker 1: and especially the fact that you know, we're getting into
Speaker 1: a little bit later in the show about the MVP,
Speaker 1: but the fact that it was even a question tells
Speaker 1: you that they have a lot of good people who
Speaker 1: could have been MVP. I mean, not only are we
Speaker 1: talking about Jason and Jalen, but Drew Holliday put it
Speaker 1: in like an VP style campaign the first couple of games,
Speaker 1: and Tatum and Brown specifically have been through so much
Speaker 1: at the beginning when they made that first conference finals,
Speaker 1: everyone just thought, look at these young kids, their head
Speaker 1: of schedule, Jason Tatum loves Kobe, shoots like Kobe. This
Speaker 1: is a miracle. It's going to be great for the
Speaker 1: next few years. And then over the next eight years
Speaker 1: you go from wonder kid to oh, I haven't you
Speaker 1: won yet? And in fact, the one hundred and seven
Speaker 1: games book that Tatum and Brown played together before last
Speaker 1: night were the most by a duo prior to winning
Speaker 1: their first NBA championship, So nobody has played longer and
Speaker 1: won than the two of them together, so it was Look,
Speaker 1: it took them a while to get here. I do
Speaker 1: want to play you with clip real quick because their
Speaker 1: road has been heavily scrutinized. And they were talking their
Speaker 1: talk last night Brad Stevens. You know how reserved he
Speaker 1: is normally. I just asked him a question about the
Speaker 1: criticism that the Jays have gotten and listen to what
Speaker 1: he said. The road for the Jalen the Jays, Jalen
Speaker 1: and Jason to seize a lot of the early criticism
Speaker 1: they took and then to have them be able to
Speaker 1: pay it on here. What does that mean to you
Speaker 1: as someone who's coached them and then nurtured them through
Speaker 1: their organization.
Speaker 4: I think criticism student, So I don't care. I'm a
Speaker 4: Jalen on that.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 4: You know, those two had achieved more than most twenty
Speaker 4: five and twenty six year olds ever had, and the
Speaker 4: only reason they received scrutiny was because they were playing
Speaker 4: in late May and ju And you know, as a
Speaker 4: good friend of mine said, I'd rather be in the
Speaker 4: mix and have my guts ripped out and suck. Those
Speaker 4: two guys have been really good a long time.
Speaker 1: I'd rather be in the mix and have my guts
Speaker 1: ripped down and suck. I love that.
Speaker 2: But he's right, right, He's absolutely right, And I mean
Speaker 2: we kind of spoke on that before, Like people got
Speaker 2: bored with this duo success early and the fact that
Speaker 2: they couldn't finish it off, you know that the way
Speaker 2: that a lot of people expected or want it. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's that's that's kind of how it goes in sports.
Speaker 2: But you have to credit these guys for the success
Speaker 2: they've had early on in their career and at such
Speaker 2: a young age. That's unheard of in any league, in
Speaker 2: any professional league, it's hard to win, but it's also
Speaker 2: hard to win young and in that learning curve process,
Speaker 2: these guys came in with early success and they've been
Speaker 2: nothing but successful since. So I think this could be
Speaker 2: the mark of a dynasty run. In my opinion, I
Speaker 2: think this could be a start of it. So it's excited.
Speaker 1: How much better do you think Brown and Tatum can get?
Speaker 1: Because Brown has made Gent's made a really big deal
Speaker 1: in these finals about how he addressed all these weaknesses
Speaker 1: people said about him, and that he knew he had
Speaker 1: and that he worked his ass off to fix them.
Speaker 1: So do you think that they're done or finished products,
Speaker 1: or do you think, you know, twenty five twenty six
Speaker 1: years old, or do you think that they can actually continue.
Speaker 2: To get better twenty five twenty six, they're just scratching
Speaker 2: the surface.
Speaker 3: These guys haven't even hit their prime yet.
Speaker 2: Your prime doesn't happen until like twenty eight, maybe thirty two,
Speaker 2: thirty three. And these dudes are a special, special duo.
Speaker 2: I think we'll see a lot more success from this duo.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I think at this point, now
Speaker 2: that they've learned how to do it, they know how
Speaker 2: to do it, they've completed the assignment, I think they
Speaker 2: can run off two three more. So I think it's
Speaker 2: very possible for this for this these two guys to
Speaker 2: be the moving point of this league. Like from this
Speaker 2: point forward, I could see that happen.
Speaker 1: Look, the East is easier than the West, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: if we think about the teams that are gonna be
Speaker 1: competing and come out of the West next year, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1: But in the East you do have the Sixers that
Speaker 1: are going to try to add a piece this summer
Speaker 1: and have Joel Embiid and Tyrese Maxi you do have
Speaker 1: New York that's coming on, you know, Cleveland if they
Speaker 1: can retain Donovan Mitchell. Do you see Boston kind of
Speaker 1: having that footprint in the East. I mean, they've already
Speaker 1: been to six out of the last eight Eastern Conference finals,
Speaker 1: so that they've already been there. But do you see
Speaker 1: them just sort of being the team in the e
Speaker 1: the way for a couple of years, the Celtics were
Speaker 1: the team in the Eastern and then for a stretch,
Speaker 1: it was always the Cavaliers, the Cavaliers, the Cavaliers. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you think that Boston We're going to get that
Speaker 1: from them? Or do you think Milwaukee's gonna have a say?
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: I think from this point moving forward, the conversation in
Speaker 2: the East will now start wash who's the second best
Speaker 2: team in the league, in the Eastern Conference. I think
Speaker 2: Boston has solidified itself this team. The crazy part about this,
Speaker 2: they just won in dominant fashion, But this entire team
Speaker 2: is returning next year, the entire team, So that lets
Speaker 2: you that lets you know right there where this is
Speaker 2: about to go. The conversation in the East is strictly
Speaker 2: about who's second. Like that's it, because we know who
Speaker 2: the number one team in the East is.
Speaker 1: Well write about bringing back. We also saw a Celtics
Speaker 1: owner with Grossbeck in the locker room. Here's what he
Speaker 1: told me. Listen to this one. I didn't feel to
Speaker 1: have finally delivered this to the city.
Speaker 2: It's been a while.
Speaker 5: Boston is a city of champions. Once again. Rights on Friday,
Speaker 5: and then we'll go do it together. I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: Domaza said he's ready to start right now. It wants
Speaker 1: another one.
Speaker 5: I'm not ready to start right now. We'll start pretty soon.
Speaker 5: We'll bring on this whole team back. Bring the whole
Speaker 5: team back next year. Look out world.
Speaker 1: So, first of all, book the idea that an owner
Speaker 1: is sitting there and said I will pay the money
Speaker 1: to retain the entire team, which is not what we
Speaker 1: saw necessarily from a couple of the last championship teams.
Speaker 1: What do you think of that? And do you think
Speaker 1: the formula for them is to run it back or
Speaker 1: should they keep tweaking?
Speaker 2: Man, Well, one, that's that's beautiful to hear as an organization,
Speaker 2: as a as as one of the guys on the team.
Speaker 2: You want to hear your owner speaking that way. And
Speaker 2: uh in this league, if you want to win, you
Speaker 2: got to spend, and that's just how it works. It's
Speaker 2: really really hard to build a championship team and be
Speaker 2: under the cap, Like that's just not really a possible.
Speaker 2: And as far as making any moves or tweaks, like
Speaker 2: I said, this team dominated this season, Like, I don't
Speaker 2: even know who you could really consider the second best
Speaker 2: team in the league. I mean, obviously we could say
Speaker 2: the Mavericks, but statistically, what's the second best team in
Speaker 2: the league after Boston? And I don't see anybody close
Speaker 2: to this team or even if they are to make
Speaker 2: improvements in this next season, I still don't see anything
Speaker 2: close to the talent on this roster. So if I'm them,
Speaker 2: I'm sitting still. I'm entering next season with the same group.
Speaker 2: We're gonna run it back again. And the crazy thing
Speaker 2: is they weren't even one hundred percent healthy theirselves. We
Speaker 2: didn't see it on a KP at one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: So it's it's still kind of a situation of how
Speaker 2: dominant is this team really We still have yet to
Speaker 2: really see that, So that's scary when you actually think
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 6: Have you ever wondered if check home and might be
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Speaker 6: from six Trophies. Well they certainly have.
Speaker 1: If you're like me and you'd like to listen to
Speaker 1: as many good basketball podcasts as you can after you're
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Speaker 6: Shay and Jason serve up the biggest moments from around
Speaker 6: the NBA with their patented mix of joy banter.
Speaker 1: Pop culture side quests. They also hand out six pop
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Speaker 1: the Denzel Washington and Training Day Trophy that's given out
Speaker 1: to a player or team having the best week around
Speaker 1: the NBA, or the Lauren Hill. You might win some,
Speaker 1: but you just lost one trophy for the team or
Speaker 1: player that just can't get it together, plus a bunch
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Speaker 1: head scratching moments around the NBA. So follow Bullyball, but
Speaker 1: also follow six Trophy on the Wondery app or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or you can listen ad free
Speaker 1: by joining Wondery Plus. Well. To me, KP is kind
Speaker 1: of the question here with the roster, And first of all,
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled for him. I've known him since he was
Speaker 1: a rookie in New York. I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time around him then, and you know his injuries he's
Speaker 1: had and difficult stops along the way, and the fact
Speaker 1: that you know he loves the bright lights, and the
Speaker 1: fact that he paid it off in that city, in
Speaker 1: that arena and was an important part even though he
Speaker 1: was injured. It's kind of like you book in that
Speaker 1: game one of the finals he played in Golden State,
Speaker 1: like he came out there and he did what he
Speaker 1: needed to be done for the team in that period.
Speaker 1: He did it again last night. So he's certainly an
Speaker 1: important part of this team and he's been an important
Speaker 1: part of this franchise for this entire season. But the
Speaker 1: question about him when they traded for him was can
Speaker 1: he stay healthy? And the answer was no. He missed
Speaker 1: the huge chunk of the playoffs and then he missed
Speaker 1: more than half of the finals. And when you let's
Speaker 1: say you play Denver next year, I mean, because that's
Speaker 1: that's a different matchup. And I'm not saying, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, oh, if they played Denver, then Boston
Speaker 1: might not have won. Boston won Boston as the champion,
Speaker 1: but Denver would give them a different challenge and you
Speaker 1: would need someone like Kristaps porzingis there for that matchup.
Speaker 1: So do you just cross your fingers and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: next year he's going to stay healthy or do you
Speaker 1: have to sort of make some moves there?
Speaker 2: Like I said, all you can go by is the results,
Speaker 2: and the results were we want in a dominant fashion.
Speaker 2: So to sit there and be like, well, we need
Speaker 2: to tweak anything, I feel like you don't try to
Speaker 2: fix anything that's not broken. And obviously you could always
Speaker 2: try to find an insurance piece. Let me get a
Speaker 2: guy that I know can come in and fill that
Speaker 2: road in case KP isn't healthy. So I could see
Speaker 2: that being a move. But based on that starting five
Speaker 2: and just the foundation of the roster, I don't change anything.
Speaker 3: I'm confident with this group and I continue to move forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all Herford's got one year left. I know he's,
Speaker 1: you know, as old as the hills as he likes
Speaker 1: to say, but he gave them good minutes. I mean,
Speaker 1: he did what he needed to do. Tatum is about
Speaker 1: to sign this crazy deal. Member Jalen Brown had the
Speaker 1: biggest contract in NBA history. Well, Jason Tatum is about
Speaker 1: to top that this summer. Derek White, they're going to
Speaker 1: have to figure out because he's an unrestricted free agent
Speaker 1: next season, so he will be playing on an expiring
Speaker 1: contract basically. So there are some questions here, but the
Speaker 1: fact that the owner says, I'm going to spend the money,
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring them all back is so refreshing.
Speaker 1: Because it is harder and harder and harder to build
Speaker 1: a championship team. They are changing the rules starting this
Speaker 1: year to make it more difficult to you get penalized
Speaker 1: more with luxury tax if you have more than two
Speaker 1: high profile, high roller players on your roster. It is
Speaker 1: to get to this position, is I don't know if
Speaker 1: you can build a team like this again because the
Speaker 1: rules have changed. So to not put your foot on
Speaker 1: the gas and spend the money now is it would
Speaker 1: be so shortsighted. But we've seen owners do it. We've
Speaker 1: seen owners get to the top of the mountain and
Speaker 1: be like, okay, let me not go keep on all in,
Speaker 1: let me cut some costs. And I never understand it
Speaker 1: because it will be a decade or more with most
Speaker 1: of these teams to get back here. Look at the
Speaker 1: Celtics themselves, I mean, they've been very good for a
Speaker 1: lot of this time and they still hadn't won a
Speaker 1: title since two thousand and eight. So I just think,
Speaker 1: if you're in this position the Celtics are in now,
Speaker 1: you spend all the money and then if in two
Speaker 1: or three years, four years that you know you're out
Speaker 1: and you have a bad team, you at least have
Speaker 1: two or three championships to show for it.
Speaker 7: So I don't know.
Speaker 1: When we look at Dallas, They've got their own situation
Speaker 1: to figure out.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: If we look, I'm looking at some stats Producer Night
Speaker 1: just put up. They averaged ninety three and a half
Speaker 1: points in their losses in this final. That was compared
Speaker 1: to one hundred and eighteen that they averaged during the
Speaker 1: regular season, So a huge production drop there. Obviously, the
Speaker 1: Boston defense had something to say about that, but there
Speaker 1: will always be a tough defense if you make it
Speaker 1: that far. Luca, on the other hand, I mean he
Speaker 1: did a dumb thing in game three, and I know
Speaker 1: that he regrets it, and he's got some habits there
Speaker 1: that came out of that game that showed up that
Speaker 1: he's just he's got to clean up. He's just got
Speaker 1: to clean up some of those habits talking the officials,
Speaker 1: not playing the defense that he is capable of playing. Frankly,
Speaker 1: being in the best shape of his life at the
Speaker 1: end of the season is not something he's really prioritized
Speaker 1: up until now. And we saw Nikola Jokic. I mean,
Speaker 1: you remember Boog used to be kind of pudgy, used
Speaker 1: to you know, get back on defense was hard for him,
Speaker 1: and then he completely changed his diet, completely changed his
Speaker 1: workout pattern, buckled down and became, frankly a different player.
Speaker 1: I mean, rose to that multiple time MVP levels. So
Speaker 1: I think Luka was second on my MVP ballot this year.
Speaker 1: I think he will be in the MVP consideration, But
Speaker 1: if he wants to win a finals, he's got to
Speaker 1: clean up some of those habits. That all being said,
Speaker 1: he's fucking amazing. I mean the things you see him
Speaker 1: do are just mind blowing.
Speaker 6: And it doesn't get old for me. Does it get
Speaker 6: old for you watching him offensive.
Speaker 3: No, it doesn't. It does absolutely not.
Speaker 2: I could I could watch that guy play basketball every
Speaker 2: single day and never get bored. But I agree with you,
Speaker 2: Rach it is some things that have to be cleaned
Speaker 2: up within that Mavericks team and specifically with you know,
Speaker 2: individuals on the roster and Uh, I do want to piggyback,
Speaker 2: like when it comes to greatness, when it comes to
Speaker 2: you know, putting yourself you know, in that tier of
Speaker 2: of the other grace, which Luca is, it comes with
Speaker 2: a lot of responsibility and similar to kind of how
Speaker 2: Tatum and UH and Jalen Brown had to continue to
Speaker 2: go through that ring kind to kind of finally figure
Speaker 2: it out, I think Lucas also grown through that process himself.
Speaker 3: I do feel he.
Speaker 2: Improves with each year with some of the bad habits
Speaker 2: or some of the you know, things that create a
Speaker 2: negative for him on the court. But you know the
Speaker 2: same criticism that you know Zion has received for you
Speaker 2: know not quite being there I received into my career,
Speaker 2: you know, some of the other grades Shoulquille on it.
Speaker 2: Nobody is exempt from it. Until you embrace that part.
Speaker 2: It's it's hard to find success at the end and
Speaker 2: you know, some guys slip through the crack, But uh,
Speaker 2: I think when it comes to the Mavericks improve and
Speaker 2: I think that part alone will improve their entire roster.
Speaker 2: If we can get one hundred percent in shape Luca
Speaker 2: from start to finish. We don't want to keep you know,
Speaker 2: going through these playoffs and you know you're breaking down
Speaker 2: because your body's not physically fit. We've watched you do
Speaker 2: it time and time again. So you now have to
Speaker 2: go in to the offseason and figure out a way.
Speaker 2: How can I correct that? How can I prevent that
Speaker 2: from being you know, one of the negatives or one
Speaker 2: of the weaknesses when it comes to me finishing out
Speaker 2: the season strong or you know, finishing or being one
Speaker 2: hundred percent healthy to push my team all the way
Speaker 2: to the end.
Speaker 3: I think that was a big factor and why they lost.
Speaker 2: Obviously they can improve with getting talent, but if your
Speaker 2: lead horse is in a hundred percent there, it's gonna
Speaker 2: be hard to find success at the end. And that's
Speaker 2: just the facts of the matter. You know, Luca is
Speaker 2: an incredible player in this league. You know, arguably could
Speaker 2: say he's the best player in the league. I'm cool
Speaker 2: with saying all of that, But in order for him
Speaker 2: to take that next jump, he has to self reflect
Speaker 2: and self improve on just his end and hold his
Speaker 2: self accountable, like being the leader of that team, hold
Speaker 2: your self accountable. There is nothing wrong with, you know,
Speaker 2: self reflecting and improving in the offseason. That's part of it,
Speaker 2: and I think that's the next step for him.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a pretty rich problem to have if
Speaker 1: you're the Mavericks, that you already have this guy on
Speaker 1: your roster who is one of the best players in
Speaker 1: the entire planet, and he's got this big chunk of
Speaker 1: room to improve. I mean, that's crazy, right. I Mean, normally,
Speaker 1: if you've got a guy at that level, he is
Speaker 1: topped out. And yet the Mavericks have a guy who
Speaker 1: is already up here, and yet could could just just
Speaker 1: by doing things himself, not with the trades, not with
Speaker 1: free agency, not the salary cap, that just by doing
Speaker 1: a few things. And again, like overall, he's incredible, but
Speaker 1: just the fact that he does have the room to
Speaker 1: make these small improvements, it's just kind of mind blowing
Speaker 1: luxury that the Mavericks have. I do think they're going
Speaker 1: to tweak some of the pieces around the Edges. I
Speaker 1: don't expect some big, huge trade from them, but I
Speaker 1: think they showed with this run. The tweaking the pieces
Speaker 1: around the Edges, you know, the Gaffords, the PJ. Washington's
Speaker 1: that kind of thing that is a secret to winning.
Speaker 1: I love the Kyrie Luca partnership. I'm not expecting Kyrie
Speaker 1: to blow up every game, but he poured in thirty
Speaker 1: forty points when it counted several times during this playoff run. Apparently,
Speaker 1: as long as he's not playing in Boston, he can
Speaker 1: contribute at a high level. So that's kind of what
Speaker 1: I expect from them. Before we move on to other
Speaker 1: teams around the league, though, I do want to hit
Speaker 1: you on the MVP question because last night there is
Speaker 1: there is some suspense as we waited for Adam Silver
Speaker 1: to announce the MVP as he had that microphone. Who
Speaker 1: did you think whose name? Did you think he was
Speaker 1: going to say? Whose name did you have on your head?
Speaker 2: I think Jayleen Brown was very deserving of that call.
Speaker 2: I'm not mad at that decision, but to be totally honest,
Speaker 2: I think it could have been Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum,
Speaker 2: or Drew Holliday. They all and Obviously, when it comes
Speaker 2: to Tatum, he didn't have his best offensive performance, but
Speaker 2: everything else he brought to the game. And I'm paying
Speaker 2: attention to everything. It's not just if he's making shots
Speaker 2: or not. The way he's facilitating, the way he's you know,
Speaker 2: getting guys involved, he's playmaking, he's defending. All of those
Speaker 2: small things he did at a really, really high level,
Speaker 2: which still contributed to this team winning. And it's crazy
Speaker 2: to say their arguably best player did not perform well
Speaker 2: and they still wanted dominating fashion. So, like I said,
Speaker 2: that's just mind blowing to me. But to go back
Speaker 2: to your question, Tatum easily could have done it with
Speaker 2: it's all around performance. I think Jalen Brown was on
Speaker 2: an absolute mission this year to prove his worth. I
Speaker 2: think he did that beyond words at this point, I
Speaker 2: think he's shut up a lot of than they said.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: At this point, it doesn't matter who's the who's the
Speaker 2: one A or one B. We're an incredible tandem. At
Speaker 2: one point, I can lead, At the next point, he
Speaker 2: can lead, and we're totally fine with that. The way
Speaker 2: they embraced each other, the way they show love for
Speaker 2: one another, I think that was a beautiful thing. And
Speaker 2: like I said, I think that killed that narrative that
Speaker 2: you know was trying to be created. And and now
Speaker 2: you just have to respect these two as a duo.
Speaker 2: That's that's champions and have a chance to continue to
Speaker 2: be champions. So and then Drew Holliday. Drew Holliday with
Speaker 2: the way he performed defensively, I mean, he's it's a
Speaker 2: master work, like it's it's a sensey out there just
Speaker 2: going through the motions and just doing what he does.
Speaker 3: So shout out to Drew, two time champion.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you're out there with him, what does
Speaker 1: he do on the court that just makes everyone's lives easier?
Speaker 2: Exactly what you say, he just makes everybody's life easier.
Speaker 2: I remember being teammates with with Drew Holliday and at
Speaker 2: that point in our career, me and A d brought
Speaker 2: the ball up the floor a lot. Drew being one
Speaker 2: of the you know, top pgs in the league at
Speaker 2: the time, could have easily you know, been egotistical about him,
Speaker 2: like I'm the point guard, I bring the ball up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this guy would literally get a rebound.
Speaker 2: To throw the ball to me, a a d to
Speaker 2: bring the ball up because he knew what type of
Speaker 2: offense we could create with their bigs having to guard
Speaker 2: us in the open floor.
Speaker 3: But just that level of unselfishness and that.
Speaker 2: And being cool with, you know, being in the backseat
Speaker 2: of being a passenger like that goes a long way
Speaker 2: for a championship team or a team in general.
Speaker 3: So just that aspect and what he brings to the game.
Speaker 2: It obviously changed that time I heard Celtic's roster and
Speaker 2: it's part of a huge part of the reason that
Speaker 2: they are now champions.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is crazy when you look back on
Speaker 1: it that Milwaukee made that trade and handed the keys
Speaker 1: to Portland to decide where Drew would go because we knew.
Speaker 1: We knew the minute that trade happened, Portland wasn't keeping him. Right,
Speaker 1: there was no question Drew never got on a plane
Speaker 1: to Portland. They were always going to turn around and
Speaker 1: deal him. And for Milwaukee to make that decision, I
Speaker 1: don't know, man. I mean, it's not an aspect that
Speaker 1: we talked about a ton the day that the Damian
Speaker 1: Lillard came, because you know, obviously we're focused on Damian
Speaker 1: Lillard and Drew Holliday going out and it was sort
Speaker 1: of like, Oh, where's Drew going to go? That was
Speaker 1: the question we were asking. But I don't think we
Speaker 1: really focused on the fact that they gave up control
Speaker 1: in that situation and it really cost them because it
Speaker 1: literally the most valuable guy asset that was going around
Speaker 1: last summer went to their biggest rival. And I just
Speaker 1: think he's the king of the hockey assist I wish
Speaker 1: the NBA kept hockey assist stats. If they did, I
Speaker 1: think Drew Holliday would blow everyone away this place. Like
Speaker 1: I just I can't say enough good things about him.
Speaker 1: I love when he played with you. I just I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, He's so deserving, great guy off the court.
Speaker 1: Same thing for Jalen Brown, same thing for Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1: But I mean, you know what Jalen Brown does in
Speaker 1: the community, what Drew Holliday does on it. He and
Speaker 1: his wife do incredible community work. What they do on
Speaker 1: every team that they get on. I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: I just these are good guys. These are good guys
Speaker 1: who are being rewarded, and I think that's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: They are also favorites Boogie for next year's title. We're
Speaker 1: just talking about whether they can win it or not.
Speaker 1: Here are the odds DraftKings. I'll take that bet. Are
Speaker 1: you ready to start already laying down money for next season?
Speaker 1: Because Chelsea Celtics heavy favorites plus two ninety, so you
Speaker 1: can still make money. It's it's not one of those
Speaker 1: bets where it's sort of like, you know, you spend
Speaker 1: a dollar and you make a dollar plus two ninety.
Speaker 1: Denver's next plus eight hundred. It's interesting, Okay, see next.
Speaker 1: That kind of surprised me a little bit. Eight fifty
Speaker 1: MAVs one thousand plus one thousand. Those are the six
Speaker 1: best odds. So what better are you taking there? Or
Speaker 1: are you surprised not to see someone else high on
Speaker 1: the list.
Speaker 2: Obviously I'm gonna roll with the champion Celtics. I think
Speaker 2: they'll be dominating Nature as well.
Speaker 3: But my next bet will probably be okayc and really,
Speaker 3: and the reason I say that is they got so.
Speaker 2: Much draft capital, they got so much money to play with,
Speaker 2: Like they're one star away from dominating the league theirselves,
Speaker 2: so I think. And then on top of that, the
Speaker 2: you know, trusting in Sam Pressey to make the decisions
Speaker 2: for this organization that's obviously worked for them over and
Speaker 2: over again. But I think he'll make the perfect decision
Speaker 2: and improve that team this summer. So I'm excited to
Speaker 2: see what they do as well.
Speaker 1: Funny you mentioned one player away Buggie Cousins, because they
Speaker 1: have new rules at the NBA in terms of free agency,
Speaker 1: new rules all around this year. This is what happens
Speaker 1: to a new CBA. But the free agency question has
Speaker 1: changed because it used to be that even with your
Speaker 1: own free agents, you had to wait a couple weeks
Speaker 1: to talk to them, which was always ridiculous because we
Speaker 1: knew everybody was talking any but anyway, I mean, it
Speaker 1: just was. I think these tampering rules are insane. They
Speaker 1: wiped away at least talked to your own guys, because
Speaker 1: the idea that you weren't already talking to your own
Speaker 1: guys is nuts. So as of today, as we sit
Speaker 1: here on Tuesday morning, teams can talk to their own
Speaker 1: players and make them offers. And some of the big
Speaker 1: guys we're going to be watching our Paul George of
Speaker 1: course with the Clippers, Klay Thompson with the Warriors, DeMar
Speaker 1: De Rosen up in Chicago, and og and Nanobi og
Speaker 1: Nanobi feels like a lock of where he's going. His
Speaker 1: agent is president of the next Leon Rose's son. So
Speaker 1: in case you had any question about how thanks to
Speaker 1: giving dinner was going to go there, it was not
Speaker 1: with oh, you took one of my players away and
Speaker 1: got him on another team. It is yes, dad, and
Speaker 1: here you go. And Oji wants to be there, obviously,
Speaker 1: But when you look at some of those other names,
Speaker 1: Paul George is obviously the huge, huge mover on that list.
Speaker 1: You know, we saw Joel Embiid already campaigning to get
Speaker 1: him in Philadelphia. There's talk that Orlando wants to make
Speaker 1: a big offer to both Paul George and Klay Thompson.
Speaker 1: What do you think? I mean, I think Paul George
Speaker 1: has a really interesting decision to make. The Clippers were
Speaker 1: not offering him the full max through these contract extension
Speaker 1: negotiations they've had through the season, and they didn't Pickkwhi
Speaker 1: the full max either. And part of the reason I
Speaker 1: think Paul, unlike Kawhi, held on to this opportunity to
Speaker 1: be a free agent, is that even if he wants
Speaker 1: to stay with the Clippers, he wants more money. And
Speaker 1: I think it's a real question of do you stay
Speaker 1: in the West. Do you stay with this team where
Speaker 1: your partner in crime has had health issues throughout the
Speaker 1: entire time that you guys have been playing together. You
Speaker 1: know how competitive you just talked about Oklahoma City. We
Speaker 1: can name you know, Wemby and the Spurs. We can
Speaker 1: name all these teams on the come up, plus Denver
Speaker 1: plus the Mavericks plus Minnesota. Do you go to the
Speaker 1: East and be on a team like Philmladelphia with Joel
Speaker 1: Embiid and Tyrese Maxi And of course you've got you know,
Speaker 1: Damian Lillard and Giannis over there too, so it's not
Speaker 1: all a cakewalk. But what would you do if you're
Speaker 1: in that position?
Speaker 3: Well, when it comes to Paul, for me, it just
Speaker 3: it gotta make sense.
Speaker 2: And we've watched this guy spend most of his early
Speaker 2: career just talk about how bad.
Speaker 3: He wanted to play in LA. He's finally gotten to
Speaker 3: that point.
Speaker 2: So I just don't see that changing late in your
Speaker 2: career now, as far as you know him, having a
Speaker 2: start partner in Kawhi who's always injured, why the hell
Speaker 2: would you go to Philadelphia? And that's the same situation,
Speaker 2: except it's a younger guy. So that being the thought process.
Speaker 2: I just don't see that winning him over as well either.
Speaker 2: But I feel like this is a situation where the
Speaker 2: Clippers will come to their senses. They will give him
Speaker 2: what he's looking for this contract. Obviously, when it comes
Speaker 2: to negotiating, you have to sometimes have leverage. You have
Speaker 2: to show that it's other people interested and they're willing
Speaker 2: to get that money. The Clippers will come to their senses,
Speaker 2: and I believe Paul will be back with the Clippers.
Speaker 2: They'd only make sense them moving into a new arena.
Speaker 2: You don't want to let one of your star guys go.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't make sense. So I think that they
Speaker 2: will come to their senses and you know, we'll see
Speaker 2: Paul and the Clipper sures.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, look why I give up that leverage that
Speaker 1: he had, and now he's going to go on the
Speaker 1: open market. Everybody knows how valuable he is. And you know,
Speaker 1: even if he stays right in LA, he's going to
Speaker 1: get significantly more money, I think, than he would have
Speaker 1: gotten if he had signed the extension over the season.
Speaker 1: So smart move by him. Klay Thompson is the bigger
Speaker 1: question though, book and I do want to hit him
Speaker 1: before we go here. You played with the Warriors. You
Speaker 1: saw that Warriors nucleus, the way Clay, Steph Draymond operate.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're kind of one brain on that team.
Speaker 1: And Clay has said he is going to go out
Speaker 1: and listen to other offers, and the Warriors have said
Speaker 1: we'd like to have him back, but it's clear they're
Speaker 1: not gonna like, they're not gonna max him out. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's definitely on the decline of what he was in
Speaker 1: his prime, which there's no shame in that, and that's
Speaker 1: what happens as you get older. And I wonder if
Speaker 1: Clay himself is going to solve this problem for the
Speaker 1: Warriors of do they focus on keeping the nucleus at
Speaker 1: all costs and maybe not win another title, or do
Speaker 1: they make some major changes to put them back on
Speaker 1: Steph Curry back in contention. I don't know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: just take the money in Orlando, or do you think
Speaker 1: that he'd take lesson stay with Golden State.
Speaker 2: I think Clay is thinking take the money, and obviously
Speaker 2: there's I don't really see light at the end of
Speaker 2: the tunnel for the Warriors in the position that they're
Speaker 2: in right now. I think we're now starting to see
Speaker 2: the beginning of, you know, a dynasty end. And that's
Speaker 2: okay everyone. It happens to every dynasty that's ever happened.
Speaker 2: But I don't understand why so much. You know, certainty
Speaker 2: when it comes to Clay going to a team like Orlando,
Speaker 2: I can see Clay fitting in with an okay See
Speaker 2: and actually putting them over the rump.
Speaker 1: So for me, there's just the one where there's a
Speaker 1: lot of noise around. But you're right, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of teams that might.
Speaker 2: Want to I can see okay See sliding in and
Speaker 2: also offering the same amount of money, and he fit in.
Speaker 3: He fits in seamlessly with that team.
Speaker 2: I think he's the type of player they're actually looking
Speaker 2: for instead of Josh Giddy being in that spot. You
Speaker 2: gotta lay Thompson so that improves their team.
Speaker 3: Draft makes by far, but uh, but I think it's
Speaker 3: a real threat for Clay to leave.
Speaker 2: It's just the beginning of the end. And that's okay.
Speaker 2: They had an incredible run. They pushed the league to
Speaker 2: new heights. What they've done is historical. It's obviously league history,
Speaker 2: but I think it's the beginning of the end for
Speaker 2: that franchise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean four titles, so you can ever argue
Speaker 1: with that. It is interesting though, because Steph is talked
Speaker 1: about how hungry is still to win. If Clay does leave,
Speaker 1: that opens up more flexibility for them, and then they
Speaker 1: become another interesting team in the West. Because I'm I
Speaker 1: believe in Steph Curry basketball teams. You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: once he's dragged off the floor, fine, but when as
Speaker 1: long as he's playing, I'm in for them having a
Speaker 1: shot at it. And if they can upgrade that roster.
Speaker 1: If Clay does decide to leave and that leaves them
Speaker 1: more flexibility, I'm curious to see it is. It's crazy
Speaker 1: to think that we just ended the season last night, Boog,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be a wild summer, and it's
Speaker 1: going to be another wild year next year. This game
Speaker 1: is just it gives us so much. It's so much fun.
Speaker 1: We've got Summer League coming up, We've got the Olympics
Speaker 1: coming up. Basically, the entire NBA is going to come
Speaker 1: to your house, Boogie Cousins. You live in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: and the whole league is doing a company move there.
Speaker 1: Over the next month. You will see temsa practice there
Speaker 1: in July. You will see Summer League there in July,
Speaker 1: and maybe Boogie'll barbecue for all of us. We'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll find out.
Speaker 3: We'll see if it's enough barbecue for all that.
Speaker 7: Right, We at Bully Ball are going to be taking
Speaker 7: a break because the season's over, but we will be
Speaker 7: catching you on other parts of the All the Smoke
Speaker 7: Productions platforms.
Speaker 1: You'll see booking and I quite a bit, and you know,
Speaker 1: go back and and listen to past episodes. You can
Speaker 1: catch all of our episodes on the DraftKings Network, on
Speaker 1: the All the Smoke Productions YouTube channel wherever people get
Speaker 1: their podcasts and book I just want to say thank
Speaker 1: you to you. This was a new venture for us
Speaker 1: this year. You have, you know, set such an example
Speaker 1: of stepping into your NBA retirement but also just being
Speaker 1: able to play the game you love. I've said this
Speaker 1: a bunch of times. When I say it again, I
Speaker 1: so admire the fact that you want to compete and
Speaker 1: you have that desire to poop and play ball, that
Speaker 1: you just want to do it. And I think that's
Speaker 1: an incredible example to set for people. And I think
Speaker 1: it's fun for you and finals, MVP and champion of
Speaker 1: your league over there in Taiwan. But I just I
Speaker 1: want to thank you because it's been so much fun
Speaker 1: basketball talk this year, and I'm saying for more.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, Rach, and I want to thank you
Speaker 2: as well. Thank you for this opportunity, thank you for
Speaker 2: inviting me to this lane, and we're gonna go places.
Speaker 1: I'm excited, absolutely, absolutely all right, We will see you
Speaker 1: guys as we go this summer signing off for the
Speaker 1: season though.
Speaker 3: Peace