1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to Math and Magic stories from the frontiers and marketing. Today, 3 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna hear some of my favorite stories from this 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: season of Math and Magic with lessons we can all use. 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know I love radio. That's where I 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: started my career, and it's my love for audio that 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: brought me to I Heart Radio can be transformative for 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: the listener, but also for the on air personalities. Here's 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: the story of how Charlemagne the God discovered his talent 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: for radio and started a new chapter in his life. 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: You had a lot of problems in school. You graduated 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: from night school that you had some run ins with 13 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: the law. You tried a number of jobs, first working 14 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: at a clothing store, telemarketing agency, flower Garden. Your sister 15 00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: hired you and I guess fired you at Taco Bell 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: for two weeks. We're not taking it seriously. Then you 17 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: discovered radio. Before we get to that, though, why the 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: bad times? I'm sure you had some explanations then, But 19 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: looking back now, what do you think it was about? 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: What lessons did you take from that? It was really 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: just about wanting to fit in when you're not getting 22 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: what you need at home, you will get it from 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: the street. And it's not like the love was real 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: in the screet you know, it just made me feel 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: good to be accepted. If my father wasn't dealing with 26 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: the things he was dealing with, and he probably would 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: have embraced me a little bit more and gave me 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: that confidence I needed, and you know, that courage I 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: needed and just empowered me. I probably would not have 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: gone to the screets the way that I did. What 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: did you take away in terms of your life now 32 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: from that experience? Nothing? There was nothing beneficial about being 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: in that situation. You have a bunch of skills that 34 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: you really don't need. I don't need to know how 35 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: to sell drugs like I don't. I don't need to 36 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: know how to carry a firearms. I was carrying it 37 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: illegally back then. Anyway, like, none of what I it 38 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: through then serves me in my adult life other than 39 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: to have those experiences. So when I'm talking to young 40 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: men that grew up in these areas, I can relate 41 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: to them in a different way and they can look 42 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: at me and they can say, oh, well, you know, 43 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: he went through a lot of the same things that 44 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: I went through when I started to see a lot 45 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: of my friends going to jail, and like guys around 46 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: me actually getting prison sentences, and people around me actually 47 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: getting killed, and cousins that I used to look up to, 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: they really were the cousins that were doing everything that 49 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: I was doing previously, and they ended up broke under 50 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: the tree, scrung out on drugs or alcohol or whatever 51 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: it was. That was a wake up call for me 52 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: at a very young age to say, I don't want 53 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: to end up like that. So more important than why 54 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: did radio click with you? I was really just looking 55 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: for something positive to do. I started working a lot 56 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: of odd jobs. I worked at the clothing store called 57 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: Demo and the mall. I worked at Taco bell. I 58 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: worked at this factory called Industrial Acoustics. I worked at 59 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: a telemarketing place where I used to be the guy 60 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: that would call your house and try to sell you 61 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: twelve CDs for a penny. Did you ever do that? Oh? Yeah, 62 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: I was one of the best because I knew music. 63 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: That was a gift that I had. I knew music, 64 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: so I knew what was good. My mother would tell 65 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: me three things that don't pertain to me. I would 66 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: always listen to things that don't pertain to me. So 67 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: I knew everything from Johnny Cash to Fleetwood mag to 68 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: the New jay Z like I knew all of it, 69 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: and so I would just know how to sell these 70 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: things to these people. And I used to want to rap, 71 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: and I was in this recording studio and I met 72 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: a guy. His name was Willie will He was a 73 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: radio personality that a local station in Charlton called the 74 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: ninety three Champs. And I just asked him. I said, ye, 75 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: how'd you getting the radio? And he was like, I 76 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: went down there and I got an internship. And I'm like, 77 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: it's that easy, Like I don't have to be in 78 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: school or anything. And he was like, nah, in mind, 79 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: this is nine Charleston, South Carolina, so things are a 80 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: lot different now. So that's what I did. I went 81 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: down there the next day and I filled out the 82 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: internship application and they hired me as an intern in 83 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: the promotions department. And that's how I got my foot 84 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: in the door. But I guess this is one of 85 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: the ways that you could say discreet help me because 86 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: being at the radio station at the time, some of 87 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: these guys wanted wat. I knew how to get wheat, 88 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: so I would have to weave for them, and they 89 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: would always want me around, like they would always request me, Yo, 90 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: I want Charlemagne to drive me to this remote or yo, Charlemage, 91 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: where you have come to the studio. So I would 92 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: just be in the studio being a fly on the wall, 93 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: just sitting there watching everybody do their job. And then 94 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: sometimes they would call me in and asked me my 95 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: opinion on things, and I would just talk. And the 96 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: music director one day, his name was Ron White. Ron 97 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: White was like, Yo, you ever thought about being on 98 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: the radio And I was like no, but I am 99 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: now like yeah, I'll show I'll try it. And so 100 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: they made me voice track one Sunday morning from eleven 101 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: am to two pm. And I did that for a 102 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: few weeks, and then they immediately cut that out because 103 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: there was Sunday morning in Charleston, South Carolina, and I 104 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: was a bit too much for that Bible belt. So 105 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: they started putting me on Saturdays seven pm to midnight, 106 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: and I voice tracked from seven to ten and DI 107 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: from ten to twelve. I would go live, and I 108 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: think the best thing that ever happened to me was 109 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: I did not have any radio skills. Nobody taught me 110 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: the traditional way to do radio, so I would just 111 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: be talking. I go back and listen. It's not the terrible. 112 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: I was yelling and I was screaming, and I'm answering 113 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: the phones, and we just was kicking it like how 114 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: we would kick it, you know, in the hood. And 115 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: it became very popular in a very short amount of time. 116 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 1: One day and they're doing overnights. I said to myself, 117 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: I love this. I've never felt passionate about anything before that. 118 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: I just knew this is what I want to do 119 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. So what advice do 120 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: you have for those people who want to be the 121 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: next year? That's where you fail. You failed by trying 122 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: to be the next anything. You should truly just be yourself. 123 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: And it's great to be inspired, Like I was inspired 124 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: by a lot of radio personalities, but I would have 125 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: failed tremendously trying to be any of them. The beauty 126 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: of life is that we are all blessed to be 127 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: our own individual, unique personality. That's why our DNA is 128 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: different than everybody else. If you really tap into who 129 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: you are and your experiences and what you've been through. 130 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: You can deliver a story that people can relate to, 131 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: but nobody else has been through. So I would never 132 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: tell you don't want to be like me because you 133 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: can't be like me because you haven't gone through what 134 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: I've gone through. You're not from where I'm from. You're 135 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: not me. Be yourself, genuinely, be yourself, your too authentic self, 136 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: and I think that you will be a okay and 137 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: you'll be a personality that people want to listen to. 138 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: Charlemagne is truly one of a kind, and I love 139 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: that he's part of the Heart family. Another media pioneer 140 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: I talked with is Jerry Leborne, the first president of 141 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: Nickelodeon and a media innovator. She found her calling creating 142 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: television for children, and she shared her story becoming one 143 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: of the first female executives in television. You had a 144 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: bosson Nickelodeon before you were the boss. Where did you 145 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: learn from that boss? Well, he was a very conventional, 146 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: top down manager. I don't think we had a single 147 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: team meeting the whole time. He was vice president of Nickelodeon. 148 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: I was the first president. Thank you. He had low expectations. 149 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: He sent all of our good creative problems to old 150 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: crony friends outside, and he didn't encourage us to work together. 151 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: I actually kept a notebook of what I would not 152 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: do when I got to be the boss. So when 153 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: you gave me the opportunity, I don't know if you 154 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: remember this, but you kind of looked at me and said, 155 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what you can do, but let's see. 156 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: It wasn't like, Okay, you're now the executive vice president 157 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: of Nickelodeon. It was just I know enough not to 158 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: get rid of you. Let's see what you can do. 159 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Nothing could be better than that, Just 160 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: a straight on challenge. I took the twenty people that 161 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 1: were working for Nickelodeon off to a conference room and 162 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: we put all the things we knew about Nickelodeon. Here's 163 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: what's not working, here's what's working, And at the end 164 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: of the day, I knew which people were going to 165 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: be on the team and which we're not. I fired 166 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: seven people. We needed to be a rebellion. We were 167 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: taking back Nickelodeon for kids. After the switch to add 168 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: support in and the relaunch of Nickelodeon's The Twain Channel, 169 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: you really struck gold can you talk a little bit 170 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: about one what that felt like, and to why you 171 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: think Nickelodeon caught on like that. Well, first of all, 172 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: it helps to be the first, to have really no competition, 173 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: and to be true to your audience. We literally did 174 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: not put anything on the air that hadn't been tested 175 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: with kids, and we were adventuresome. We had some big flops. 176 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: I remember promising you the Moon with Turkey TV. It 177 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: was gonna be comedy clips like MTV for kids, and 178 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: the day it arrived on Memorial Day weekend five, it 179 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: was even worse than any of Dream Theater. My son, 180 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: who at this point was Ken, just started to sob. 181 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: This is horrible. You will never work in TV again. 182 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: I called everybody back to the office and we spent 183 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: six days re editing everything. You know, you let me 184 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: off the hook on that. Well, one thing we all 185 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: know is you don't come close to getting it right. 186 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: In fact, it's the big flops that we got to 187 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: take the chances. And we worked for a gun named 188 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: Steve Ross who ran Warner Communications and then Time Warner 189 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: and Steve used to say, you know, bomb around here. 190 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: You a number of fired for making a mistake. You'll 191 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: be fired for not making a mistake. You're not making mistakes, 192 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: tells me you're not trying anything new, And that was 193 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: our lifeblood. But it was just so much fun. And 194 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: the other thing was if you were working at Nickelodeon, 195 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: you really had to let kids. I had this trick 196 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: question which I would ask any employee, probably illegal, what 197 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: were you like as a kid, And they tell you everything, 198 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: how they get along with their siblings, how they're going 199 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: to work in a team, and what they care about. 200 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: Let's talk a minute about how it was to be 201 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: a woman in this very big job, in this very 202 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: highly visible environment. Well, I had this boss, Bob Pittman. 203 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: The first day that I was invited into the executive suite, 204 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:27,599 Speaker 1: there were only four of us, Tom Preston, you, Bob Burgante, 205 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: and me. I made my husband quiz me for four 206 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: hours about sports metaphors. It was terrifying to me. And 207 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: I come in and the first sports metaphor that I 208 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: could possibly come up with I came up with. And 209 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: of course I used tennis metaphor in a basketball court. 210 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: And you looked at me and said, you can skip that. 211 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: We have you here for what you know, And I 212 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: don't care about sports. We want you to be you. 213 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: You have no idea how incredibly empowering that was, and 214 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: if men would do that, they would get such better results. 215 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: But it wasn't that hard for me. You wanted me 216 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: to be the nerdy, caring, creative, loving head, and you 217 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: encouraged me to make mistakes and you didn't hold grudges. 218 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: Let's talk about building companies, building teams. What kind of 219 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: culture do you need to have a building situation? Well, 220 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: you need different thinkers at the table. You need people 221 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: who are strategic, You need people who are creative, You 222 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: need people who are tactical, and you need to make 223 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: sure that they feel comfortable giving voice to their point 224 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: of view and that in fact, the team depends on them. 225 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: Debbie BC was of the Fred Cyber school. You're wrong, 226 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: and I'm going to tell you why that's the best 227 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 1: thing for a dreamer like me to have. If you 228 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 1: couldn't have a better relationship. We all had this philosophy 229 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: that our responsibility was to make sure everybody at the 230 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: table was getting an a. We had a program called 231 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: the PIT program Presidents in Training, So everybody at my 232 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: executive team were presidents in training, and I promised them. 233 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: If you come in here and look at our problems 234 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: from up here, we will all learn to be presidents together. 235 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: And you won't all be president of Nickelodeon, but you'll 236 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: get to be president of something. And many of them did. 237 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: They didn't stay right there. We'll be back after a 238 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: quick break. Welcome back to Matthew Magic. In today's episode, 239 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: we're picking some of the best stories of how great 240 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: business leaders got where they are today. I've always believed 241 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: that you make your own luck. Bbby Brown, founder of 242 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: Bobby Brown Cosmetics and hosted Beyond the Beauty podcast, told 243 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: me the story of how she grew her startup cosmetics 244 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: company by capitalizing on every opportunity. Take a listen. Late eighties, 245 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: early nineies. You began to make your own makeup. How 246 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: did that start? Well, not in my kitchen. People say 247 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: they started making in their kitchen. I did a shoot 248 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: for a magazine. I think it was Mademoiselle magazine. The 249 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: story was actually on me. How a makeup artist shops 250 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: in New York City for Off the Beaten Path makeup. 251 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: We went to Keels, nice guy behind the counter, he's 252 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: a chemist. I start talking to him about this lipstick. 253 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: I can't find. And he's like, oh, I could make 254 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: it for you. I said, really, and I told him 255 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: exactly what I wanted. He made it, sent it back 256 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: a couple of times, not right to dry the color. 257 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: And I said, all right, these are the ten colors 258 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: that I think all that you need really to get 259 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: any color out there. And he said, how about this, 260 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: I'll make the lipstick, you sell it, will sell it 261 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: for fifteen dollars. You get seven fifty, I'll get seven fifty. 262 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: It's a great idea. And he made them for me 263 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: and we started selling them out of my house. By 264 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: the time you debuted in Bergdorf Goodman in New York, 265 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: by figured something out. Well do you know how I 266 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: figured it out. I want to hear that. I was 267 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: in the elevator in my then apartment in New York 268 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: and there was a girl in the elevator and I 269 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: said hello, and she said hello, and I said, my 270 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: name is Bobby. Her name was Sharon, and I said 271 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: what do you do? She said, I work at a lab, 272 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: a cosmetics lab. I said, really, do you have a card? 273 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: And that lab still makes the lipsticks today. That is 274 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: true story. You debuted in Bergdorf Goodman. They estimated they 275 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: would sell a hundred lipsticks in the first month, and 276 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: instead they sold the hundred in the first day. Did 277 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: that surprise you? Oh, it was pretty cool. But at 278 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: the time, I had one baby, I was commuting back 279 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: and forth from New Jersey to New York. I was 280 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: still working as a makeup artist us my husband was 281 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: in law school. You know, money was tight. Everything was 282 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: kind of a blur. You had to scramble, obviously to 283 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: get more. And berg Doorf must have said, wait a minute, 284 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: we got a hit here, let's give it the shelf space. Right. Well, 285 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: we were originally on a table, and the only reason 286 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: we were on a table is because they didn't have 287 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: any counter space. People now think it was a brilliant 288 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: marketing idea, and it was in retrospect. And then they said, okay, 289 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: we need lip pencils, we need I pencils. So we 290 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: slowly started adding and it grew. Then Neiman Marcus called 291 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: and said, we'd love to take you in four stores, 292 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: and then Barney's called, and then Bendal's called. We didn't 293 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: have a salesperson to go sell it. That's pretty good 294 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: on it sells itself because it was different than what 295 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: was on the market, and it was really hitting a nerve. 296 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: And I think the combination of having this product that 297 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: actually didn't really look like makeup that was out there 298 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: just made you look better. It didn't smell, it felt good. 299 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't greasy, it wasn't dry. Women looked pretty. It 300 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: was a more natural look. It's what people wanted. And 301 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: at the same time, not because there was a strategy, 302 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: but I was the makeup artist doing makeup for the 303 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: fashion shows, so I got to talk about the trends. 304 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: I was also on the Today's Show. I got to 305 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: talk about it, and everything together look like brilliance. But 306 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: it was just really good luck. I'm sure you made 307 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: your luck. Let's go back for Goodman. How did you 308 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: get the introduction? It's gonna sounds like I make this up, 309 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: but I was at a party, someone's fancy party in 310 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: New York City, and I said, thank you for inviting me. 311 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: My name is Bobby. I said what do you do 312 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: and she said, I'm a cousinat Expire Berg doorf Goodman, 313 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: I'm not even kidding, and actually give you some money 314 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: to put on the roulette table. And for me, I 315 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: think we do very well there, so you've been a 316 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:50,119 Speaker 1: big success by almost every measure of success, family, financial, work, fame, etcetera. 317 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: I know there are a lot of folks listening who 318 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: are building their careers today. What advice would you give them? 319 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I would first of all say, there's no rush. 320 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: I help a lot of young entrepreneurs that I'm friends with, 321 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: and they always seem like it has to be done now. 322 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: Oh my god, has to be done. Oh my god, 323 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: Series A, series B, I don't even know what. Like, guys, 324 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: calm down. You got to build a brand. People think 325 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: that the whole idea of building a brand is to 326 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: sell it and make a lot of money. No, build 327 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: a brand that you love. It takes time. It's like 328 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: a baby. You gotta nurture it. Building a brand you 329 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: love is great advice for entrepreneurs, but for Procter and Gamble, 330 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: building a brand is also about staying true to your values. 331 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: In my conversation with Mark Pritchard, chief brand officer of 332 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: p AND, we talked about some of his most impactful 333 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: campaigns and how they pushed his brand forward. I want 334 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about the view of this company, 335 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: and I want to go back in time back to 336 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: when you were GM of the cover Girl business and 337 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: you had an epiphany about the broader impact you could 338 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: have on culture. It had an immediate effect on the 339 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: Easy Breezy, Beautiful agg campaign, very well known at that time. 340 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: Can you tell us what led to that epiphany and 341 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: how it changed you What I was doing at the 342 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: time as I was a general manager of our CoverGirl business, 343 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: which is Baltimore, and then my white Betsy and our 344 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: three daughters, who are all under the age of ten, 345 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: went to a place called wind River Ranch up in 346 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: the Colorado Rockies. It was a spiritual ranch, nondenominational spiritual ranch. 347 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: Because I was born Catholic, my wife's Jewish. My dad 348 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: was an alcoholics anonymous, so we had a higher power 349 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: and he was also there with us. When we were there, 350 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: the spiritual leader at the very end of it came 351 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: up to me and said, you know, Mark, you really 352 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: can make a big difference in the world because you're 353 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: in business. The greatest force for good in the future 354 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: is going to be business. It's not going to be clergy, 355 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: it's not gonna be government. It's going to be business. 356 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: If you choose to do so, you can do a 357 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: lot of good. We had just introduced the easy Briefing 358 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: Beautiful cover Girl campaign, and I literally it was an 359 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: epiphany where I thought, oh wow, the effect that we 360 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: have on the standard of beauty is profound. We're essentially 361 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: portraying what we view is the standard of beauty and 362 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: unfortunate the time, the spokespeople we had were too young, 363 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: too skinny, and too white. And I sat there and 364 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: looked at my ten year old daughters and I said, 365 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: you know, I have an obligation to do the right thing, 366 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: and I knew then that we needed to make a change. 367 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: We brought in Queen Latifa, we brought in Mellon Generous, 368 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: Sophia Vergara, Pink, Janelle Monet. We became diverse. We moved 369 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: to a standard of beauty that came from within as 370 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: opposed to externally. And it was really a very profound 371 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: moment because I realized how much impact advertising can have 372 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: on people's perceptions. And that was really the start of 373 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: what I hope we're doing now. At that moment, What 374 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: was the reaction internally from the consumers and from the 375 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: ad industry. Well, it first when I went back and 376 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: talked to our agencies at the time, they're like, well, wait, 377 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: wait a minute. No, no, no, no, no no, that's 378 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: not what women want to see. They don't want to 379 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: see themselves. They want to see other people who are 380 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: the quote better version of themselves. M M. I said no, no, 381 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: no, no no, no, no, we need to try we can 382 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: do something that's better. Thankfully, Alice Erickson, who was the 383 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: creative director at the time, did a magnificent job and 384 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: she's the one who really, along with the other team, 385 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: brought in Queen Latifa. That really is what transformed that 386 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: campaign and that brand. What was the reaction internally when 387 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: you came back with this epiphany, you know, internally people 388 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: got it. They got it pretty quickly. They thought, you know, yeah, 389 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 1: this is something we can do, and we went for it. 390 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: It really unlocked a lot of creativity. P and G 391 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: is a huge company, but it has a heart that 392 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: you might actually expect from a nonprofit. You talked a 393 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: little bit about where this came from, but I'd like 394 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: to hit a couple of the things you've done and 395 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: are doing just to get a little context on it. 396 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: Love over Bias Can you give us a minute on that? Yeah? 397 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: Love over Biased was our last Olympic Ad, which was 398 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: trying to shine the light on the bias that exists 399 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: in the world and then imagine what the world can 400 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: see if they looked at it through mom's eyes and 401 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: looked at people through mom's eyes. It was just a 402 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: brilliant add It was one of the best we've ever done. 403 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: It was also directed by Alma Horrell, who is you 404 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: may know he founded Free the work just a brilliant director. 405 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: Gave just such a touch to it that was just 406 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: phenomenal that really helped build our business. At the same time, 407 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: were you able to measure it in any way the 408 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: impact it had on changing attitudes? Primarily the way we 409 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: measured that one is through just the sentiment that it provided. 410 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: The reactions that we've got of an ad is really 411 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: brilliant or a piece of work is really brilliant. It 412 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: does amplify and get carried. You've been a vocal advocate 413 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: for pay equality. I think if one numbers are right, 414 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: about forty of the managers of the company are now women. 415 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: Sorry with old numbers, How did the company do that? 416 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: What was the process to get there? Because I think 417 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: there's a lesson in that for a lot of other 418 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: companies that are wrestling with the same issue. A big 419 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,160 Speaker 1: part of that came from leadership. When I started, there 420 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 1: were not many women managers with the leadership at the 421 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: time John Smail, then eventually John Pepper and others said 422 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: diversity is important, and that led to over time now 423 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: at CENT and we're seeking to get leadership still today, 424 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: David Taylor is absolutely adamant about the power of diversity 425 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: and over time. What we also found, Bob was that 426 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: diversity is not only the right thing to do, it's 427 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: the smart thing to do when it comes to building business. 428 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: The most diverse companies, the most diverse teams tend to 429 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: do better as gender, it's races, ethnicity, it's a sexual 430 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: and gender identity, it's ability, religion, and a each And 431 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: we look at things now on an intersectional basis because 432 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: it's intersectional. Quality is important. A big part of that 433 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: is because that's who we serve. We serve all humanity, 434 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: so therefore our company needs to reflect humanity. So we're 435 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: deliberately focusing on that. We're not where we want to 436 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: be yet, but we're absolutely deliberate about making a difference there. 437 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode of Math and Magic. Hope 438 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: you picked up some valuable insights. We'll be back to 439 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: our regularly scheduled series next week with another guest from 440 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: the front lines of marketing. Until then, I'm Bob Pittman. 441 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Thanks so much for listening to Math 442 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: and Magic production of I Heart Radio. This show is 443 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for 444 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat. 445 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: Nikki Etre for pulling research, Bill Plax and Michael Asar 446 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of 447 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: course Gayl Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone who 448 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: helped bring this show to your ears. Until next time, 449 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: h