1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Killer reads the Nancy Grace Book Club today book number 2 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: one and what a read this is joining me the 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: author of The Hunting Wives, The Hunting Wives, May Cobb, 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: and I got a lot of questions for her, and 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: many of them are going to be personal. May so 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: buckle up also with me? And boy, do we need 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: a shrink? Where now? Psychiatrists joining us out of the 8 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angela Arnold, MD at Angela Arnold MD 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: dot com. And renowned forensics expert Karen Smith, Lecturer, University 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: of Florida, star of Shattered Souls podcast and you can 11 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: find her at bar Bone Forensics dot com and you'll 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: find out why we need a forensics expert and why 13 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: we need a shrink. But first of all, may I 14 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: don't I guess this is a compliment. There were many 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: times when reading your book I felt hot all over 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: and just I would close it and put it down. 17 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm I can't, I can't do this, and of course 18 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: it would then open it up again and keep reading. 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: My producer here in the studio, Jackie, same thing. We'd 20 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: read it and I can't do this anymore, and of 21 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: course run back to it and open it up and 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 1: read some more. Guys. This is the story of Sophie O'Neill, 23 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: and she has this glamorous job in Chicago where she 24 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: does I don't know, I guess lifestyle articles. And so 25 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: she's surrounded by beautiful people and I'm saying that with 26 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: quotes and beautiful homes and beautiful stories, and then she 27 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: wants to get away from it all and it hits 28 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: her as it did me once when I was in 29 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: a park in New York City and it was an 30 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: asphalt park painted green the Asshaalts painted green, kind of 31 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: like a tennis court, and there was a chain link 32 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: around it, and I had the twins with me. They 33 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: could barely walk. And that's when they still wouldn't wear shoes. 34 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: They were wearing socks and all bundled up and to 35 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: swing on a swing set. For each swing it was 36 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: ten people deep. And then here's the clincher. Once you 37 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: got on the swing, you could only have ten pushes. 38 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what this is just draw So anyway, 39 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: Sophie leaves Chicago with her awesome husband Graham and their 40 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: little boy Jack and they move to Mapleton. I don't 41 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: know if that's a real place. Or not Texas version 42 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: along view Where I'm From a fictionalized version of Where 43 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: You're From. Now. May Cob earned her m a. In 44 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: literature from San franci San Francisco State University. Or essays 45 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: have appeared everywhere, including The Washington Post, The Rumpus, Edible, 46 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: Austin Austin Monthly. Now when I hear Rumpus and Edible 47 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: Austin and Austin Monthly, that makes me think of beautiful 48 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: people and beautiful food articles. Is this true, man? It 49 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: is true. It's very true. I think I know who 50 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: Sophie is. Oh no, now, your debut novel was Big 51 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: Woods and at one a lot of awards. Um, okay, mate, 52 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: let's just get right down to it. I hate these women. 53 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: I hate every single one of them. The ladies on 54 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: the panel, but the ladies in this book. They're all filthy, rich, 55 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: they have these wonderful lives. And you're a heroine. I 56 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: guess I could call her a heroine. She's let's just 57 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: say she's not afraid of a cocktail. Let's just start 58 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: with that. With her little boy, and all she thinks 59 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: about is getting in with this rich click of snobby women. 60 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: Where does she come from guilty as charged. Yes she is. 61 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: She's getting in with the wrong crowd, making bad decisions, 62 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: and these women are wicked and devious and they're just 63 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: up to no good, and she's she's going to get 64 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: in over her head. I mean it starts like at 65 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 1: the very very beginning, doctor Angie Arnold. I mean, did 66 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: you say you're a shrink, you're a psychiatrist. I mean 67 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: that in a loving, caring way. I mean, right at 68 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: the beginning. I just want to snap her little hand 69 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: and say, say, stay away from these women, especially she 70 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: kind of has a girl crush on the lead. But 71 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, rich Margot, I mean, she moved to a 72 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: small town, and it sounds like these are the most 73 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: interesting people in the town. You know what. I take 74 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: issue with that, doctor Angela Arnold. Where did you grow up? 75 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: Let's just start with that, Tennessee. So you know, having 76 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: grown up in the middle of nowhere, there are a 77 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: lot of interesting people in the middle of nowhere, doctor Angela. 78 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: Though maybe they were interesting because they were bad. What's 79 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: your inspiration? May well, gosh, I'm gonna take the fifth No, 80 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. So growing up in long View, it 81 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: was such an interesting place because it is it's a 82 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: smaller city, but it was big enough to have like 83 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: a mall, and it's kind of it is in the 84 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. It's two hours east of Dallas, an 85 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: hour from street sports. So it also has like, in 86 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: addition to being rural, it has a lot of oil money. 87 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: So you there was this high society component there, and 88 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: it was a little bit like the television show Dallas, 89 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: kind of on steroids, where there was a lot of 90 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: people with a lot of money and not enough to do. 91 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: And so it's sort of a recipe for hijienks and 92 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: disaster and murder. Not that the murder happened well my 93 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: real life or anything, but well you may call it hijinks, 94 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: but I call it murder and a champted murder and 95 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: aggravated assault. I mean, there's just so many crimes here. 96 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know which way to turn. But one thing 97 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: back to you, doctor Angela Arnold, before we bring in 98 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: our forensics expert, what is it about human nature? And 99 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: May Cobb guys were talking about an incredible knee book. 100 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: It's like a train, except you can't look away from 101 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: it at all. You just have to read to the 102 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: next page, and I'm not going to give it away, 103 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: but when I saw why the cop kept coming back 104 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: and back and back to speak to Sophie, I just 105 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: I felt sick. Sick. What is it, doctor Angela Arnold, 106 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: that makes us hang out with people we know we're 107 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: bad for us? Nancy? I think, because first of all, Nancy, 108 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: while I was reading this, let's be honest, we all 109 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: do this. I think that's one of the things that 110 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: pulls us into this book. Also, we all participate in 111 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: this activity, and it's I think that we look for 112 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: different parts of ourselves through these other people. Maybe they 113 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: do things that we could never ever in our lives, 114 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: but by gosh, we want to watch them and feel 115 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: the way those things could make us feel if we 116 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: actually could do them. I'm trying to soak in what 117 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: you're saying, you know. I felt so bad for the husband, Graham, 118 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: who's just this great guy married to Sophie. And the 119 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: first night she comes home late, okay, the second night, 120 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: and then the third night, and it's not like she's 121 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: out running around with another man. She's at with her 122 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: friend girls, the so called hunting wives. Hold on, ma'am 123 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: getting a question, Kay in Denver how long does it 124 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: take once you start writing a book to complete your 125 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: character story? Gosh, for The Hunting Wives, this one, it 126 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: actually came out pretty quickly. I wrote it sort of 127 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: in a fever, maybe because it is like a train wreck, 128 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: and I couldn't look away as the author either, So 129 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: I wrote the whole thing in about seven months. Wow, 130 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: I'm impressed. I'm impressed. So there's your answer, k in Denver. 131 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: Seven months you wrote the whole thing. May Cob is 132 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: with us, the author of a brand new book. Her 133 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: second stab at it, pardon the pun. Her first was 134 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: Big Woods, and now it's The Hunting Wives. And I 135 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: will reveal this much. I also was a little obsessed 136 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: with Margot miss Perfect, because every time you describe her, 137 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: whether she's got on some elegant evening gown at some 138 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: charity event and you write down to the jewelry, you 139 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: describe her skin as tan and everybody, these ladies, their 140 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: skin looks perfect and softly. They just rubbed in suntan 141 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: lotion or something, or had one of those expensive spots reatments. 142 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: I don't even know what you would call them, but 143 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: the way you describe them is so luring. And then 144 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: you've got her in the bikini and it's perfect on her. 145 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I don't even I guess I was 146 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: in the seventh grade when I looked perfect in a bikini. 147 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: I haven't been wanted to look against since then. But 148 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: there are these women out there that look perfect, and 149 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: then we find there anything but perfect make up. How 150 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: did you get these descriptions so perfectly? And they are evil? 151 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: I think everyone in that little clique is evil. Everyone 152 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: they are. They're all just they're devilish and horrible. And well, 153 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: first of all, thank you so much. I'm so glad 154 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: you found Margot alluring to that. I really tried to 155 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: make the reader, you know, be as intoxicated with her 156 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: as Sophie, and I just it's sort of like it's 157 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: not biographical at all, or but there are women, and 158 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: there are women like this in East Texas, and so 159 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the descriptions just came from, you know, honestly, 160 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: growing up there and the glamour and the glitz and 161 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: all of that when we're staying in the middle of nowhere. 162 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 1: I kind of I use the phrase, but I also 163 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: take offence to it because I grew up in rural 164 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: Middle Georgia, and we were in unincorporated bib County, but 165 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: there was a lot going on. It was definitely not 166 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: nowhere in my mind, but geographically it's kind of out 167 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: in the middle of a very wooded area. And speaking 168 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: of wooded area, you have you have several red herrings 169 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: in there that I like a lot. So I'm just 170 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: curious about how you came up with these women. I 171 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: think you patterned them after someone, but you're not saying that. 172 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: All right, there is a murder. There is a murder. 173 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: I'm not going to give it away. Yes there is, 174 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: but let me just ask Karen Smith, forensics expert and 175 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: host of Shadow Souls podcast. There is a big difference 176 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: when you're trying to process a scene, a murder scene 177 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: inside a structure like a home, a kitchen, a bedroom, 178 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: a garage like in Jennifer Dulos. We know that's where 179 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: she was killed because there's so much blood in her garage. 180 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: That's a Connecticut missing mom of five. Or outdoors. Let's 181 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: tackle outdoors first, Karen Smith to process a saying forensically, 182 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: a murder out doors is very difficult. Yeah, you pull 183 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: out all the stuff. I mean, this is where the 184 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: major case truck comes in when you have something out 185 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: in the woods. You're talking metal detectors and shovels and 186 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: rakes and all kinds of different forensic tools that we 187 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: have to use. It inside of a home or inside 188 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: of a building is a lot easier. We can turn 189 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: the lights off, you know, we have to use lumin 190 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: all or an alternate light source. Outside we have to 191 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: wait for the sun to go down. That could be 192 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: a twelve fifteen hour day. You're tired. Completely different stuff, 193 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: And I have to say, this is so compelling. She 194 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: has flipped the script making the women the evil ones. 195 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: You know, we read and see movies all the time 196 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: with the men or the evil men, and this is 197 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: so fascinating to hear that the women are this devious 198 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: and this horrible. And I have to say, from that 199 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: description of the characters, looks can be deceiving. I live 200 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. The women here are gorgeous, but underneath, 201 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: who knows. I got a horrible complex living out in 202 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: LA During Dancing with the Stars, everybody is tall and 203 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: skinny and perfectly natural fake blonde hair. I mean they're 204 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: all perfect teeth, perfect everything. And then there was me, 205 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm wondering how Sophie fitted too that 206 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: dynamic may I too had a complex living in LA 207 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: and had to come home to Texas because I did 208 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: not sit in UM so there might be there might 209 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: be a little bit of me and Sophie. UM. And 210 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: I think Sophie, you know, does have you know, some 211 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: natural beauty and things, but she definitely is outmatched with 212 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: this group of women. And I do think that's part 213 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: of the pool for her is that you know, she's 214 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: been in Chicago and she's been around you know, from 215 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: her work in magazine like glitzy, glamorous stuff. But this 216 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: is like a different This is a different animal altogether. 217 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: These fasty, southern, very well healed women with not a 218 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: lot that they have a lot to lose, but they don't. 219 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: They kind of don't care if they're gonna lose it, 220 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: and they're above the law in a lot of ways. UM. 221 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know if I got off track with 222 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: your question, but UM, yes, I don't know. I'm totally 223 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: into what you're saying, because again, I'm putting myself in 224 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: that spot and the thought that I could do something 225 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: that would make me lose my twins and my husband 226 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: forget about our house or beat up minivan, or any 227 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: possession we may have. But the thought of being away 228 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: from my twins me doing something that ends in that. 229 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: I mean every time she gets with these women, they're 230 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: the hunting wives, that's what they call themselves, because they 231 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: skeet shoot at night. Okay, every time she gets with them, 232 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: something bad happens. Yet she keeps going back. Now, you 233 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: tell us may about what in her history makes her 234 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: take these chances, and about her life with her mother 235 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: and her absent father. How she gets bored this beautiful town, 236 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: with this beautiful home, this great husband, and people the 237 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: nail on the head. A lot of it has to 238 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: do with Sophie's childhood. So her mother race her in 239 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: this very rootless way. She was a traveling ur nurse 240 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: and the father abandoned them when Sophie was little, and 241 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: so the mother would move her from town to town, 242 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: and she was, you know, pretty slidy and just not 243 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: stable at all. She always had a different man because 244 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: and I'm not a man hater, contrary to what many 245 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: people believe. I don't hate man. I just hate man 246 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: that commit felonies. Now you've got this made up town 247 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: of Mapleton, But one of your scenes really stuck in 248 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: my mind. How Sophie as a little girl, I guess eleven. 249 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: I have that in my head was in her room, 250 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: reading or doing something in her room, and the only 251 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: time her mom would interact with hers when she'd stick 252 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: her head out of her room and tell Sophie to 253 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: run in the kitchen and bring her a peach knops. Yeah. Yeah, 254 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: And that was her mother interaction with her because she 255 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: has some guy back there, and you would hear all 256 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: the laughter or in the canoedling, and then there is 257 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: Sophie just in her rent. Yes, yes, So that that 258 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: I love that that's stuck out for you because that 259 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: really was That's a formative thing for Sophie. It is 260 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: just that kind of role model. And so she grows 261 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 1: up and she wants stability. But then there's this other 262 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: part of her that's always craved like the bad boy, 263 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: and in this case, it happens to be the bad girl. 264 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: So she's all she's known as sort of that kind 265 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: of you know, unstable, you know, family life. So as 266 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: much as she really wants to cling to her beautiful 267 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: husband and wonderful toddler, there's this other side to her 268 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: that's very much wanting something bad, unsavory, that's not good 269 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: for her. It's almost like she can't believe she can 270 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: have ability because you know, that's not what she was 271 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 1: used to as a kid. And then part of it's 272 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: just runaway physical attraction for Margo. So some of it 273 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: is the childhood and I'm not really buying that. May 274 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I know you wrote the book, but I 275 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: don't think it's her runaway physical attraction to Margo. Yeah, 276 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: Margo's very sexy, very pretty, but she's in love with 277 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: her husband, or so we think. I think it is 278 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: something else. I think it's that dangerous loss exactly. That's it, Nancy, 279 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: And I'm I'm gonna borrow that and give you credit 280 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: because that stuffs what it is. She's thinking danger like 281 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: so many people do. Can I tell you something. I 282 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: had a best friend that was a defense attorney with 283 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: the greatest personality, very gregarious, pretty, beauty, coin smart, the works, 284 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: and but she represents Doper's so you can only hang 285 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: out with her so much before somebody lights up, Okay, 286 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: And to me, that is my queue to get out 287 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,959 Speaker 1: of there, or at least at the time, because I 288 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: had so much to lose as a district attorney. That's 289 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 1: the last thing I needed to be around with somebody 290 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: having to joint at a get together. No, I mean 291 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: and now with children and a husband. What is it 292 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: may that was so alluring about this femphatality. The only 293 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: way I could put it in Margot, who really, according 294 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: to one question we've got, Margot is like the queen 295 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: Bee in high school. Everyone wants to be in her 296 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: click yeah, yeah, I mean, why didn't she hear the 297 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: signals like, for instance, we'll just have one more drink 298 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: or swear you won't tell, or standing by and you 299 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: see things that are wrong and I'm not gonna fool 300 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: your plot. You see things that are wrong happening around you, 301 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: but you keep going back. I do. I think it's 302 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: that broken piece of Sophie that is definitely has a 303 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,479 Speaker 1: hole in her heart from when her dad left, and 304 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: I think it's it's it is that, and part of 305 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: it is that boredom thing where she was used to 306 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: having more. And then she gets, you know, she gets 307 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 1: the grass that's supposed to be green and it's it's 308 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: too green. And there's the crickets are louder than they 309 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: should be and the walls are closing in, so there's 310 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: just not enough to do. And these women are so 311 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: much fun and part of her, really, I think, wants 312 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: to see how far they'll go. So even with the 313 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: warning signs, when she finally does sort of wake up 314 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,959 Speaker 1: and realize I'm done, she's passed the point and overturned. 315 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: So well, wait a minute, you may when a cop 316 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: knocks on her door that point, because she had so 317 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: many times that she could say I'm out of this, 318 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: I don't. And another thing, being a mom, how do 319 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: you get bored? I don't get it because there's always 320 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: something I need to be doing. You know how far 321 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: behind I am on scrapbooking? I mean much less, you know, 322 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: just just just too much. It's like drinking out of the 323 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: the fire, Hydrank. I guess it's kind of what you want. 324 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: But you know, another thing I really liked about what 325 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: you did was the way you described her obsession with 326 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: this woman. You say it's sex, but that's just you 327 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: may cob, because I'm not buying that. I think it's 328 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: that she wants some other life, and I think a 329 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: lot of people have that. Did you see that, doctor 330 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold? You're the shrink. Okay, you're the MD. I'm 331 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: just a JD. But she would obsessively look at Margot's 332 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: Facebook and all of the glamorous photos on there, and 333 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: she would drink in like she was bursting to death, 334 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: every detail about what Margot was wearing, and her hair 335 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: was so sleek, and she had a necklace like they 336 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: just sat right in the middle of her cleavage, and 337 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: she just sucked up every detail on Facebook. Don't people 338 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: know that's all fake? Well, it's fake, but you know 339 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: what else, Nancy Facebook? Facebook does all of that on pampas, 340 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: and it's built to pull us in. And so if 341 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: there's any little part of you that wants to be 342 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 1: pulled in and has the time and inclination to be 343 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: pulled in like that, that's exactly what Facebook is for. 344 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: I have to wonder if she was fulfilling something because 345 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: she was so ignored by her mother growing up. But 346 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: about that may, I actually think that's very on point. Yeah, 347 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense to me. I didn't 348 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: consciously think of that and while I was writing it, 349 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: but I think that's very true. She's seeking mags that attention, 350 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: and you're so right about Facebook, like all of our 351 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: lives are so curated for social media that that you know, 352 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: Margot is on display and Sophie's just she's unfortunately the 353 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: perfect She sees it at the at the right time 354 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: and the wrong time, and she gets sucked into I 355 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: think the right Nancy. There's part of her that does 356 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: want Margot's lifestyle. I don't know that she so much 357 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: wants to be with Margo sexually as she wants to 358 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: be Margo. I'm not quite sure about that. But another 359 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: the way you describe her logging on and looking but 360 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: she wouldn't outright like like the photo because she didn't 361 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: want to be too forward, and she was overwhelmed when 362 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: she saw Margot had like what almost four thousand quote friends? 363 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: Was that the right? Thirty seven hundred something friends? And 364 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: I like the way that you describe how she waits 365 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: before she will respond to a text or a Facebook 366 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: message or a posting because she doesn't want to look 367 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: too forward or too excited. But yet she's staring at 368 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: her phone waiting for it to ping. Yeah, I think 369 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: that's so like we all think that we're out of 370 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: high school, but we're really not. When it comes to relationships. 371 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: Sometimes we can really fall back into that, you know, 372 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: schoolgirl mode. Or maybe it's just me, but I think 373 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: other people do too. You know, when I really did 374 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: a reality check on this, Sophie seems, you know, kind 375 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: of normal, and she had this great job in Chicago. 376 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: She moves with her husband and son to Mapleton, Texas 377 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: and to get away from it all. But when she's 378 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: been pouring over Facebook, she's been staring at this woman. 379 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: But when she follows I think it was a maid 380 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 1: through into a gated community into the area where Margot lives. 381 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: She sneaks into the neighborhood to spy all this woman 382 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: she really doesn't know, to find out what day the 383 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: maid comes. That's freaky. May please tell me you haven't 384 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: done that. No, of course not, but that is it 385 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: is a little stalkery, I'll say. But no, May does 386 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: not behave like that Sophie as I might be a 387 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: tiny shade of Sophie, but she's a ten and I 388 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: might be a one. I'm very yeah, I advise you 389 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: to say nothing more at this point. Okay, as your lawyer, Okay, good. 390 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: You know a lot of people are riding in and 391 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: they want to know that did you start from the 392 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: beginning at the outset to make these characters so nasty, 393 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: and each one of them, each one of these women. 394 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: Let's see, I write a little note Sophie, Margot, Callie, Jill. 395 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: I think I'm leaving out one of them. Yes, Aaron, 396 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: her real friend, Aaron. Did you just start the book 397 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: and then the characters you start developing their personality, then 398 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: you just let the personality go to its natural conclusion 399 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: or did you know at the beginning what was going 400 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: to happen at the end. I had no idea. I 401 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: write very much without an outline, and I try to 402 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: write as organically as possible. It's just my process. I 403 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: didn't even know. When you say you write organically, you 404 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: may just let it rip. I let it rip. Yeah, 405 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: Like I had the original setup, but I did not 406 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 1: know who the women were, and I, you know, like 407 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: I didn't know who the killer was still halfway through. 408 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: I just knew that there was a secret click of 409 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: these hunting wise and that they were rich and probably 410 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: pretty wicked. But I really, I really met the characters 411 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: as I was writing them. Like there's an early scene 412 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: where they're at that lavish garden party and Sophie's the 413 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: one at Margot's house. Yes, and she's that was some 414 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: party I know, right, and she kind of meets them 415 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: for the first time, and it was it was really 416 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: the first time I met them too. So I just 417 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: was letting them kind of show up, see how catty 418 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: they could be, what they were going to say. And 419 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: that's sort of that is how my process is. I 420 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: have to let the characters lead me. I wish I 421 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: could do more upfront, but that's just the way I work. 422 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: I have to really go find it. Well. If you 423 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: did it, then the characters wouldn't be true to themselves 424 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: if you didn't let them quote do what comes natural. Um. 425 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: You know. Another thing is booze. There is a lot 426 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: of drinking in this. I think there may be a 427 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: roofie or two. But did you notice, um, I always 428 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: think this is interesting to doctor Angela Arnold should take 429 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: a drink. Let's just say, I think a couple of 430 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: times of bourbon that was always given to her at 431 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: one of these get togethers. And you know, it takes 432 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: wicked when you first get it into your mouth, and 433 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: but yet she'd just keep drinking it and as often 434 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: she should describe it as then it tasted like velvet 435 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: going there? Does it? Does it only tastes wicked the 436 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: first little sip you take. You know, to me, if 437 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: something smells like paint remover, I just naturally don't want 438 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: to drink it. But that's just me. I guess you 439 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: ladies have a different set of taste buzz And I'll 440 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: just leave it at that. So, Karen Smith, I want 441 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: to go back to analyzing a crime scene outdoors versus indoors. 442 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: But you said something that you thought was pretty interesting 443 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: that the bad players in the Hunting Wives are the women. Yeah, 444 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: and you know I have to go back. I was 445 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: chomping at the bit to jump in earlier. What really 446 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: captured my attention was this lust versus love with Margo. Yeah, 447 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: Sophie can be in love with her husband, but she 448 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: may be in lust with Margo. And you know, there 449 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: was a line that I just used on my last 450 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: episode of my podcast, and I'm going to talk it 451 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: out there because it fits so well with this. When 452 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: you have a so called perfect life and you get bored, 453 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: sometimes it's really easy to take a less turn at 454 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: that primrose path. And if you go back to the 455 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: motivations that you know, Nancy and I worked, how many 456 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: murders and how many scenes? Sex? Power, and money. They're 457 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: the trifecta of motivations. You can take any motivation on 458 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: the planet, you can just spill it down into one 459 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: of those three things or a combination of them. And 460 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: that's why people do what they do. And that's what 461 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: makes this so compelling, is this group of women who 462 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: are so evil to do these things, not only to 463 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: other people, but to each other. It's fascinating. Their a coven. 464 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: You know, may you're making me really suspicious about who 465 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: these characters are modeled after. But you know, even Mayberry 466 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: and Andy of Mayberry had high society. Okay, so you're 467 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: going to have a high society no matter where you go. 468 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: So what was it about Sophie's background that made her 469 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: want to be part of that so much? Whenever I 470 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: have ever been at let me just say fancy shinned Diggs, 471 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: all I can think about is getting out of the 472 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: dress and out of the makeup and getting home to 473 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: my twins. She has a completely different take on things. 474 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: Why does she want it so badly? May? I think? 475 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: I do think that there is the part of her that, 476 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: because of her childhood and stuff that she probably never 477 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: had like a stable set of circle of friends, so 478 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: she had Aaron, but other than that, she didn't have 479 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: her group because she was moved around too much. So 480 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: I think now she's she's going to be a part 481 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: of this group, and this group is exciting, and it's 482 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: really the most sort of as as a new mom, 483 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: like alive, she's felt in a long time. And then 484 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: there is you know that that left at the Primrose 485 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: Path must component where she It's just a compulsion. She 486 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: can't even stop herself, like she she is just so 487 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: drawn to Margot and she just wants to be part 488 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: of that whole world and there is nothing else like 489 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: that going on in Mapleton. And it might be fun 490 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: to have a beer with her friend Aaron, but it's 491 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: also just kind of gooring to her, so she really does. 492 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: She's just totally swept up in their world of debauchery. 493 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: You know, that's really interesting, May And I thought about 494 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: it a lot. I guess all the years that I 495 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: prosecuted and was really living off adrenaline for years and 496 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: years and years, to me, nothing is more wonderful than 497 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: being at home with my family. So I guess it's 498 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: what you've been through that leads you to where you 499 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: are right now. And I'm thinking about these women, specifically 500 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: Margot and the other women in her group, how they 501 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: seemingly think that all that wealth and all that glamour, 502 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 1: the beautiful clothes, the beautiful home, as you said, garden 503 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: parties the way you describe it, these rolling grounds with 504 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: magnolia trees and perfectly manicured lawns, and the guy eye 505 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: out back parked with the car shucking oysters. I think 506 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: it was so everybody could have fresh oysters, the booze 507 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: flowing and the food everywhere. That was some party. I 508 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: get the sense that they think, these women that they're untouchable. 509 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: Are they arrogant or do they think they're their wealth 510 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: protects them. Yes, I do think that that's I think 511 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: that's exactly it. They really do feel like they're untouchable, 512 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: above the law. They're insulated by their wealth. They've always 513 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: been able to do whatever in the world they want 514 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: to do. And it's just a very It is that 515 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: sort of sex, murder, money, you know, power intoxicating thing 516 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: that they've got going on. Man. And when you say sex, well, 517 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm going to spoil a plot, but I 518 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: will call it something entirely different. You call it sex 519 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: all you want to. But um, okay, if I say anymore, 520 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to ruin the plot. So I'm just gonna 521 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: stop myself. Listen to this, Okay, Hunting The Hunting Wives 522 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: is just like Texas, big, bold, and hot. This spicy 523 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: novel is filled with unpredictable twists and unforgettable characters, impossible 524 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: to put down. That is from Samantha downing at you 525 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: speaking to USA Today, sultry, salacious, unpredictable. Well that's right, 526 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: it is unpredictable. It's very unpredictable. The Hunting Wives the 527 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: kind of but your mother warned you about. You will 528 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: devour it. That's by Riley Segar in New York Times 529 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: bestseller of Home Before Dark. So I've got a question. 530 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: I'm not going to ask specifics make up, but is 531 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: there any way that we're going to see a s 532 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:06,839 Speaker 1: equal arising from any one of these characters? You know, 533 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: I want you to write a say okay, I will 534 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: then that sounds great. No, I've actually been kicking the 535 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: idea around some I My next thriller is another standalone, 536 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: but it too is set in a small town in 537 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: East Texas and it's about three women that are lifelong friends. 538 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: But I have thought, you know, gosh, it might be 539 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: interesting to do some flashbacks to like Margo and Callie's 540 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: boarding school days or what happens next, And man, what 541 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: a dream it would be to have like a TV 542 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: series where they really did explore and keep this going. 543 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe it's equal. Do you ever wake up 544 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: at night thinking about Margot? Because I've thought about her 545 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: a lot, and she's a fictional character that's so nice 546 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: to hear. I don't anymore, but definitely during the writing 547 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: of it, absolutely Lee and for a while after. But 548 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: I wrote us three summers ago, so it's been a while. 549 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: So now that I'm in the middle of the other books, 550 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: those characters are in my brain. But to me, I 551 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: know Sophie's the main character. But Margot, she's gorgeous, beautiful, sensual, 552 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: sexy and pure evil. Pure evil. It's like the devil. 553 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: He doesn't always look like a demon. Sometimes he shows 554 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: up in a tuxedo, looking like a movie Nancy. You 555 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: have asked, how can someone be pulled into this? And 556 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: look how you look, how you've been pulled into the air. 557 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: I have been I gotta tell you, guys, we are 558 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: talking to this incredible writer May Cobb, and she really 559 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: pulls out the stops in The Hunting Wives. May I 560 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: wish you the very best and I can't wait to 561 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: read the sequel. Now there, I didn't give it away, 562 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: did I? No, No, you didn't at all, Nancy. Thank 563 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: you so much for having me on this with such 564 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: a blast. And I'm telling you and we can all 565 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: get this on Amazon right, That's where I get everything, right, 566 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: can't we? Oh? Yes, yes, it's on Amazon. Absolutely wow, 567 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 1: may Cup The Hunting Wives also with me, Doctor Angela 568 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: Arnold and Karen Smith. Ladies till we meet again. Thank you,