1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Rating. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: producer Alexis code named Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this the 9 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Uh, here's some 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: strange news. There's a there's a Fat Bear Week and 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: the winner is an entry called number seven forty seven. 12 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: Look up that chunker when you get a chance. Uh. 13 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: There's other stuff happening in the news. Of course, that's 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: why we do strange news. Some of the strangest news 15 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: for us this week is good news. You see. We 16 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 1: are coming to you fresh off the live signing for 17 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: our first book. We got to meet so many of 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: our fellow conspiracy realists in person. We hope you had 19 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: a good time. If you're listening, shout out to everyone 20 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: who came through. Uh, and yeah, it was just it 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: was a good time. What what did you guys think? 22 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: Did you have a do you have a hoot, absolute 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: hoot and holler to the smashing He was delightful. Yeah, 24 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: it was so great to see so many people that 25 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: were out there just hanging with us. I want to 26 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: do that more. We need more of this. Yeah. We 27 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: we're probably gonna well, we're hoping to go on the 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: road uh more in the near future, in the beginning 29 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: of next year. Uh. We have had some great recommendations 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: from our fellow listeners to drop by places like Chicago, Austin, Boston, 31 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: other cities that don't rhyme with those last two, but 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: look for us. We'll hopefully have some news about that 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: on the way soon. In the meantime, if you want 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 1: to help support uh, support our crazy little endeavor, UH, 35 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: go ahead and drop a review of the book on 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: good Reads or on Amazon. We have been told by 37 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: Illumination Global Unlimited that does indeed make a difference. So 38 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: before you do any of that, however, we have some 39 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: important things to reveal to you. We have such wonders 40 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: to show you. As they say in Hell Raiser, UH, 41 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: there are police using new technology terrifying the creative way. 42 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: A long time sci fi actor went to space and 43 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: it gave him some feelings and maybe we start eating 44 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: your mouth. Folks were starting this week's Strange News segment 45 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: inside your mouth. Maybe on a very small level, Matt, 46 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: this is when you found Uh were you a cavity kid? 47 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: What was your relationship with your dentist. I was not 48 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: a cavity kid. I've never had a cavity before. Guys, Wow, 49 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: look at that brag. Somebody brushes his teeth. You know. 50 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: I didn't get a cavity till I was an adult. Um. 51 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: I I got that celent put on my teeth. I 52 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: guess it was really hot. Uh, in the in the 53 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: age of my orthodontist career, and it seemed to work. 54 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: But um, only about maybe two years ago that I 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: get my very first cavity. You're winning the game, You're 56 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: winning the tooth game. Oh man, Well, you know, I 57 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: didn't mean to brag. I just it's weird. I don't 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: have that experience, but I do know the experience of 59 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: being creeped out by things, and the experience of having 60 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: a weird feeling in my mouth. And when I put 61 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: those things together with this next story, my goodness, it's 62 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: tough to sleep. I hope this story doesn't have that 63 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: effect on you, but it might just a tiny bit. 64 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: Let's begin. Here's the story come to us from pen 65 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: Today P E N N Today. It was posted not 66 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: that long ago, on October four of this year. This 67 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: is the title Microbes that cause cavities, can form superorganisms, 68 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: able to crawl and spread on teeth. What do you think, guys, 69 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: if you just read that, yeah and spread? Yeah, I 70 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: mean I would say that it makes sense for them 71 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: to vultron up. Uh, this micro this MicroB matter it 72 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: does well. Yeah, that's that's the origin of complex life 73 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: is simpler forms of life teaming up and evolving into things. 74 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: It's often repeated that a canine mouth is cleaner than 75 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: a human mouth, right, Uh, it's not as dirty as 76 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: the mouth of a kimodo, But there's definitely an ecosystem 77 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: in every human mouth, so I'm not I just sort 78 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: of expect mouth's to be dirty. Maybe I'm too cynical, maybe, 79 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 1: but come on, now, we're talking about cross kingdom teaming 80 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: up here. We're talking about bacteria and fun guy working 81 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: together to create one super organism that then freaking crawls around. 82 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: And it's been described in this article as jumping around 83 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: and bug jump around, jump around, dodge the toothbrush I 84 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: had get down. Yeah, I feel it. I feel you there. 85 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: So what's the remarkable part of this is the idea 86 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: of different micro organisms kind of collabing and uh sort 87 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: of becoming something new, right, That's part of it. The 88 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: most I think astonishing thing for me and for the 89 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: scientists who discovered this accidentally, by the way, is that 90 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: both of these micro organisms, the bacteria and the fun 91 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: guy that are teaming up together, cannot move. They do 92 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: not move when they're just regular old bacterium or a 93 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 1: you know, a fun guy. I don't know. They aren't 94 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: moving around your mouth before they team up. But somehow, 95 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: for some reason, when they do connect together and work together, 96 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: the bacteria uses the fun guy like legs to crawl 97 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: and move the bacteria around like flagella. Exactly, they're giving 98 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: themselves prosthetic limbs. Almost. It's a it's a symbiosis because 99 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: this presumably provides benefits to both life forms. Ever since 100 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: the Internet, whenever I think of symbiosis and living things, 101 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: I think of all those clips of raccoons appearing to 102 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: ride other animals in the wild. This microbe, this bacteria, 103 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: then is just able to do they know how this 104 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: happened met like how they originally partnered up or what 105 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: research led them to discover this. No, we don't know. 106 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: This was discovered in the saliva of children, really young kids, 107 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: I think toddlers who had severe tooth decay. So like 108 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: the first teeth that you get in your mouth, the 109 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: baby teeth. Um. It was just discovered when looked through 110 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: a specific type of microscope for long enough. Uh, it's 111 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: intense stuff. This was at the University of Pennsylvania School 112 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: of Dental Medicine. These are scientists there who are checking 113 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: stuff out and they just stumbled upon it. I'll give 114 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: you a quote from the article. Quote this started with 115 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: a very simple, almost accidental discovery while looking at saliva 116 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: samples from toddlers who develop aggressive tooth decay. Looking under 117 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: the microscope, we noticed the bacteria and fung guy forming 118 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 1: these assemblages really cool word and developing motions. We never 119 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: thought they would possess a quote walking like and quote 120 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: leaping like mobility. Why listen to this, it keeps going. 121 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: They have a lot of what we call emergent functions 122 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: that brings new benefits to this assemblage. They could not 123 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: achieve on their own. It's almost like a new organism, 124 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: a super organism with new functions. But guys, it's in 125 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: a mouth. These things are jumping around on your teeth. 126 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: Does that not? God? That just gives me the worst feelings. 127 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: I mean, imagine what strange alchemy of cooperation is occurring 128 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: in your gut, in your intestines right now? You know 129 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: it's human beings are kind of an assemblage of many, 130 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: many other organisms. What was that statistic we found? You know, Uh, 131 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: it's about how back the number of bacterial cells and 132 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: what an average person would call their body. That number 133 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: of cells actually out numbers the number of human cells. 134 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: It's just the bacterial cells are much smaller. So really, 135 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: one are the scary questions here, at least from my perspective, 136 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: is that since the mouth is one of the most 137 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: easily uh accessed parts of the body, what else is 138 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: going on right down there in the guts? What are 139 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: they building in there? Question? I mean, the idea of 140 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: emergence is fascinating in and of itself because it's it 141 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: can be applied to philosophy, art, science, other things. That's 142 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: just the concept of like something being greater than the 143 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: some of its parts, or like you know, interactions between 144 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: different elements creating something that's altogether more remarkable, I guess, 145 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: for lack of a better term than what each individual 146 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: part can provide. Um. So the question of what are 147 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: they building like is do they arise for a purpose? 148 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: That's the question to do these Do these tendencies emerge 149 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: to a greater goal or is it just then the 150 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: you know, the goal becomes apparent after the fact, or 151 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: there is no goal, just kind of does what it 152 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: does and then it creates an outcome. The goal is 153 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: survival and reproduction always. Yeah. So in this case, it's 154 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 1: this increased mobility increases the survival likelihood of survival. It's 155 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: like all of a sudden knowing parkour. Uh, this bacteria's new. Uh. 156 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: New limbs have unusual properties. So the emergent behavior is 157 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: uh something that allows them to actually less parkour and 158 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: more spider Man, right, because they're sticking to stuff their 159 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: hearing well. In this case, Guys, the bacteria, if you 160 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: imagine it, it's not it's not mobile. Once it forms 161 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: on a tooth somewhere, it's there, Okay, unless it gets 162 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: moved around to the natural movements of your mouth and 163 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: your saliva. It's staying where it is. Same with the 164 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: fun guy. Okay, Now, when they team up in this way, 165 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: they can move around to different places, and they are 166 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: way hard order to get off with regular tooth cleaning. 167 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: So if it's just bacteria, you clean your teeth with 168 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: a toothbrush the way you've been told to do your 169 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: whole life, kid, then you can usually get that bacteria off. 170 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: Same with the fun guy. But when it's together, it 171 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: is way stickier on the enamel of the teeth or 172 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: the area of the tooth that's damaged that it's eating 173 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: away at. So this thing really does make it strong. 174 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: It's like the the hulk of bacteria. Uh. Look, I'm 175 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: gonna share this with you guys really quickly and then 176 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: we'll move away from this topic. This is an image 177 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: of what it looks like. Can you guys see this? Yeah, 178 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: I was looking at this one earlier, matt uh. And 179 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: if we could describe it here, the spined lee stuff 180 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: is our fungal life form. Right. Those are the legs essentially, 181 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: or the the appendages. Yeah, it looks like a bunch 182 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: of In this case, it's called alert, but it looks 183 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: like a bunch of teal appendages attached to a bright 184 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: light green mass. Uh, like a fluffy looking mask, and 185 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: that's the bacteria uh shot and they're just going Also, Yeah, 186 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: the fluffy looking mass as you describe it, looks like 187 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: it reminds me of some of those weird uh substances 188 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: as toys that Nickelodeon used to sell. Not ghack, but 189 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: there was another one that had some sort of beads 190 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: embedded in that's it. Yeah, it was like a little 191 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: kind of particles of styrofoam bound together by some sort 192 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: of sticky, you know, slime substance that you could mold 193 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: into different shapes and you could combine them with colors. 194 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. Then it does have that particulate kind 195 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: of look to it. Oh and I learned from the 196 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: pen Today article that you shared, Matt, that there is 197 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: a name for these projection They are hip hip is 198 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: that is like the word of the day. Um. Another 199 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: thing that was really interesting to me about this, Matt, 200 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: is these scientists did, uh, one of the smartest things 201 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: you can do in this situation, and attempted to recreate 202 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: this strange amalgamation. Were they successful? Yeah, they did. Yeah, 203 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: that's really the only way we're able to study them 204 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: as much or know about them as much as we do. Um, 205 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: because ultimately the attempt now is we've got these things, 206 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: they're stronger than they should be. Really, how do we 207 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: prevent these things from forming? And it's weird, you guys. 208 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: They found that the structures are covered in this glue 209 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: like substance. It's like an extra substance that keeps all 210 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: the parts together from the two different creatures, if you will. 211 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: And the thought is, if you can somehow target that 212 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: glue like substance, you could break these things up way 213 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: more easily. Uh So, there's lots more research to be 214 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: done on this stuff to you know, to be able 215 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: to get rid of that really bad childhood tooth decay 216 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: and then even perhaps apply this to adult tooth decay, 217 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: because if these things are crawling around on baby teeth, 218 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: you know there's something or maybe something even worse crawling 219 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: around on adult teeth. Go to the dentist, everybody, Yes, 220 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: go to the dentist. Just be careful which dynist you 221 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: go to, and always be skeptical of perhaps unnecessary procedures. Right, guys, 222 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: up selling right exactly, it's not just in the mechanics. 223 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: That's right, man. Somebody in my family just went through 224 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: that exact thing that we talked about on our Dentist episode. Um, guys, 225 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: last thing before we take off right here the Dart program. 226 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 1: Remember the thing we talked about slamming slamming a spacecraft 227 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: into an asteroid. Uh it work. It was around three 228 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: times more effective than we hoped it would be. It's 229 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: super effective. Yeah, it's a huge step, but it's only 230 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: the first step of about fifteen hundred that we have 231 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: to take to truly be able to protect ourselves on 232 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: this planet from any and all asteroid threat. But gosh, 233 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: it's a cool step. I'm just excited about it. I 234 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: was thinking about this. I read a great comparison for 235 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: this matter, which is ultimately what we found. We threw 236 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: a We threw a ping pong at a freight truck, 237 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: you can think of it that way, to throw a 238 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: ping pong ball at it. And what we found is 239 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: that it's possible if we get a big enough ping 240 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: pong ball, or enough an army of uh ping pong balls, 241 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: that we might be able to stop the truck from 242 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: hitting us. US being Planet Earth, I thought that was 243 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: really inspiring. Actually, okay, so we're going to take a 244 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: break here, a word from our sponsor, and then head 245 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: out into the vast expanse and we're back space the 246 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: Final Frontier. Did they say that in the original Star 247 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: Trek as well, or is it just the Next Generation? 248 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: I think it was a call back to the original series, 249 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: But I'm not a Treky. I do find the show 250 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: very pleasant. Next Generation in particularly the original is obviously 251 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: super campy and a little silly at times. It doesn't 252 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: hold up as well. Um, but it's you know, is 253 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: definitely a very very important first step towards what has 254 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: become just one of the most beloved and long running 255 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: science fiction television series of all time, and something that 256 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: I think has exposed millions of people to the idea 257 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: of space travel, to the idea of science fiction, to 258 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: the idea of science and also, you know, one thing 259 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: I've always enjoyed about Star Trek is that it it 260 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: is sort of a it's an idyllic um, you know, community, 261 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: It's an idyllic world where they are out to spread 262 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: peace and all of that, and they're only a handful 263 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: of like warring species like the uh, the board obviously, 264 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: which is a I and uh, I think the Klingons 265 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: are not so great either. I wish Max Williams was here. 266 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: He'd probably shut me down and set me right. But 267 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: that's not we're not talking about Star Trek today. Exactly 268 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: what we are talking about, Mr William Shatner, National treasure 269 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: William Shatner, poet, singer, actor, thinker, UM, just all around 270 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: interesting fellow. And uh. He got the opportunity through Mr 271 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos to travel to space on the Blue Origin 272 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: Space Shuttle on October um of of two thousand twenty one. 273 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: William Shatner, by the way, is ninety years old, and 274 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: that makes him the oldest living person to travel into space. 275 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: And he penned UM a sort of reflection on his 276 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: experience into space. And I know William Shatner is a 277 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: thoughtful person. UM. The Unexplained UM is quite an interesting 278 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: and well made sort of exploration of some of the 279 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: same kind of things that we talked about on the show. UM. 280 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: But I was kind of thinking that his reflection of 281 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: going to space would be, you know, just full of 282 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: wonder and kind of like on brand with sort of 283 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: like his his Star Trek roots and there certainly is 284 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: part of it that that does go in that direction. 285 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: But the thing that was most remarkable about it is 286 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: he experienced something very profound, uh and and very sad. 287 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: He experienced this feeling of like existential dread that I 288 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: don't think he was expecting. Uh. So I'm gonna read 289 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: just a little bit from this, uh, this piece that 290 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: was published um in variety recently. Um. He you know, 291 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: he does the whole build up to to take off 292 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: and all that stuff, and then he's in space. So 293 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: we've got shatterer in space. I'm not gonna do a 294 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: shatter voice. It's two on the nose, and I would 295 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: screw it up. UM. I saw a cold, dark, black emptiness. 296 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: It was unlike any blackness you can see or feel 297 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: on Earth. It was deep, enveloping, all encompassing. I turned 298 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: back towards the light of home. I could see the 299 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: curvature of the earth, the beige of the desert, the 300 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: white of the clouds, and the blue of the sky. 301 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: It was life, nurturing, sustaining life, Mother Earth, Gaia, and 302 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: I was leaving her. Everything I had thought was wrong, 303 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: Everything I had expected to see it was wrong. I 304 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: had thought that going into space would be the ultimate 305 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: catharsis of that connection I've been looking for between all 306 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: living things, that being up there would be the next 307 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: beautiful step to understanding the harmony of the universe. In 308 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: the film Contact, when Jodie Foster's character goes to space 309 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: and looks out into the heavens, she lets out an 310 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: astonished whisper they should have sent a poet. I had 311 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: a different experience because I discovered that the beauty isn't 312 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: out there, it's down here with all of us. Leaving 313 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,640 Speaker 1: that behind made my connection to our tiny planet even 314 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: more profound. It was among the strongest feelings of grief 315 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: I have ever encountered. The contrast between the vicious coldness 316 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: of space and the warm nurturing of Earth below filled 317 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: me with overwhelming sadness. Every day we are confronted with 318 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: the knowledge of further destruction of Earth at our hands, 319 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: the extinction of animal species, of flora and fauna, things 320 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: that took five billion years to evolve, and suddenly we 321 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: will never see them again because of the interference of mankind. 322 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: It filled me with dread. My trip to space was 323 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: supposed to be a celebration. Instead, it felt like a funeral. 324 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: I learned later that I was not alone in this feeling. 325 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: It is called the overview effect and is not uncommon 326 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: among astronauts, including Uri Gagarin, Michael Collins, Sally Ride, and 327 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: many others. Essentially, when someone travels to space and views 328 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: Earth from orbit, a sense of the planet's fragility takes 329 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: hold in an ineffable, instinctive manner. Author Frank White first 330 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: coined the term in quote, there are no borders or 331 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: boundaries on our planet except those we create in our 332 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: minds or through human behaviors. All of the ideas and 333 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: concepts that divide us when we are on the surface 334 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: begin to fade from orbit and the moon. The result 335 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: is a shift in worldview and an identity. And then 336 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: he goes on to talk a little bit more about 337 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: what that means to him, you know, from his book 338 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: Boldly Go Reflections on a Life of All and Wonder. 339 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: I guess that's right. Yeah, it must be an exertive 340 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: of a new book that that's that was released by 341 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: a Tria Books on October four, So you must have 342 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: written this in uh. I mean, you know, seven books 343 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: take a long time. But he may have written this 344 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: in you know, after the fact. So I would love 345 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: to read the entire book, But I just think it's 346 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: very profound, this idea of the overview effect. I mean, 347 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: it really is kind of psychedelic kind of experience where 348 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: you all of a sudden shrink down and see the 349 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: greater scheme of things, and then you realize, I mean, 350 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: how insignificant we are in the grand scheme of the universe, 351 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: but also how special our planet is and to be 352 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: out in space. He's he wasn't looking at it as 353 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: as the final frontier. He was looking at it as 354 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: like representing the blackness of like eternity and extinction, and 355 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: like how special that little pale blue dot that we 356 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: inhabit really is when you zoom out and really see it. Um, 357 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: and just the existential kind of dread of how when 358 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: you've left kind of Mother Earth's kind of warm embrace, 359 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: you know how protected we are relatively speaking, down there. Um. 360 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: It is a profound feeling and the idea of you. 361 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: He does go back to having a sense of hope. 362 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: He says, in this insignificance we share, we have one 363 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: gift that other species perhaps do not. We are aware 364 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: not only of our insignificance, but the grandeur around us 365 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: that makes us insignificant, that allows us perhaps a chance 366 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: to re educate ourselves to our planet, to each other, 367 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: to life and love all around us, if we sees 368 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: that choice. Um, but yeah, I just want to see 369 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: what you guys think. I mean it really, you know, 370 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: the idea of this billionaire Jeff Bezos just kind of 371 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: dolling out trips to space kind of willy nilly, and 372 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the idea of it being William Shatner, 373 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: the actor who was you know, in Star Trek seems 374 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: very much like something that was cooked up in a 375 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 1: you know, publicity room or a publicity meeting, or it's 376 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: well you'll get shattered to do it. He's the oldest, 377 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: will be the oldest guy in space, and everybody knows 378 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: what I'm shotting. That would be cool. It just seems 379 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: like it's Shatner is approaching it from this totally philosophical 380 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: perspe active that I kind of tend to think a 381 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos lacks. I think he's more about like, how 382 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 1: do I build the thing? How do I take all 383 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 1: this money and do crazy stuff so I can like 384 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: own the idea of traveling to space but it's one 385 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: of those things like in Jurassic Park, and they spent 386 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: so much time wondering if they could, they didn't think 387 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: about if they should. Uh. And I just have a 388 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: sense that, you know, a Bezos or a Musk or 389 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: whatever kind of lacks that perspective that someone with clearly 390 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: a bit more of a poet's heart kind of does. Um. 391 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: The guys on Internet today who always reference and love 392 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: they pointed out, it's like giving out acid and then 393 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: when people start to peek on their trip, just pop 394 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: in champagne. I mean, like we did it, but not 395 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: really thinking about what that means in terms of how 396 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: it can totally shift your perspective and you know completely, um, 397 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, change the way you look at things and 398 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: how that should be respected. I'll keep this brief, but 399 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: I think if I've understand so like five things, five 400 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: things to respond to um, your question, there're so first, uh, 401 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: to walk backwards, we have to understand that billionaires are 402 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: still at this point human and demographically. Uh. It may 403 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: be that Jeff Bezos, whom I have not met, uh, 404 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: simply has a deep love of Star Trek, deep nostalgia 405 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 1: for it. And he definitely has a deep love of space. 406 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned the overview effect because we went 407 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: deep on that in an episode a number of years ago, 408 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: and it reminds me of some of the statistics with 409 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: near death experiences. So the sample size of overview effect 410 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: is by necessity pretty low, but if you look at it, 411 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: what you'll see is that the majority of people experiencing 412 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: this idea, this we are all connected, uh situation that 413 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, Bill Hicks has performed comedy about very well. 414 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: By the way. Uh, what we see is that they 415 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: generally have a positive experience. So it's interesting to me 416 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: that um, William Shatner his thinking, he's feeling that connection, 417 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: but he's also feeling the great silence of the deep 418 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: inc um. The third thing I think you're asked was 419 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: the idea of whether this is a pr stunt Um. 420 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: It's quite possible, but I want to hold out a 421 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: little bit of hope because space travel is so important 422 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: for humanity that maybe what happened is, um, Jeff Bezos 423 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: really wanted this to happen as a way of maybe 424 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 1: saying thank you to someone who had informed his younger 425 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: years so much. Uh, And then maybe various teams got 426 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: involved and marketing came in, and you know what I mean, 427 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: they started to position it as there is good will 428 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: and maybe deflect conversation from some of Amazon's more problematic activities. 429 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: I'm not saying a guy like Jeff Bezos is incapable 430 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: of sincerity. UM. I just think that it was almost 431 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: like it's unexpected the degree to which Shatner truly, you know, 432 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: um internalized all of this stuff. You know, on on paper, 433 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: it seems like, oh yeah, like famed sci fi actor 434 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: and national treasure William Shatner goes to space like that 435 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: makes sense, like that that that it does sound like 436 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that would be dreamed up for 437 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: like a press release. But I just think it's so 438 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: cool that he really took it seriously and that it 439 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: was completely not what he expected at all, and that 440 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: he does have this kind of it's hard to describe 441 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: it as entirely negative because he h he does, you know, 442 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: kind of turn it around to how can we use 443 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: this experience to guide our stewardship of the planet, because 444 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: I think it what it really hit home for him 445 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: is that maybe this is all there is, at least 446 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: for us, you know, in terms of what we can 447 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: reach what it's taken so long for us to develop 448 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: the technology. You know, we can really only go a 449 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: very short distance into into the galaxy beyond. Um. I 450 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: just think it really hit home for him. How you know, 451 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: special and Goldilocks. You know, our planet really is. What 452 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: do you think, Matt, He sort of approached it with 453 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: a real poetic, philosophical kind of perspective. How did it 454 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: hit you? Yeah, it's kind of devastating to read. Um, 455 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: I've got this clear picture of it, guys, this is weird, 456 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: but a clear picture of a flea and it's on 457 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: the back of a wild dog that's just living out somewhere, 458 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: let's say in Florida. And the dog has, you know, 459 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: just all it's known is living out in the wild 460 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: on its own right, and there's this one flea on 461 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: its back. It's just it's like number four hundred and 462 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: twenty and the generations of fleas that have lived on 463 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: the back of this dog because it's been around for 464 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: a long time. But the dog is dying. The fleet 465 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: doesn't understand that. Really, the flea knows that the dog 466 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: isn't doing so great. I guess in some way because 467 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: it's it's moving a little slower. But the fleet really 468 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have an understanding of how the dog is doing. 469 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: It just knows, well, that's where my food is. I'm 470 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: safe here. All I really know is the back of 471 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: this dog and a couple of places that I can 472 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: crawl around on this dog. I don't even know that 473 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: it's a dog. It's just the thing. It's my home. 474 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: It's the thing that gives me everything I need. The 475 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: dog goes for a swim, and the flee is forced 476 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: to leave its home. I don't know. God never the 477 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: overview the overview effect for the flee then that which 478 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: I love this picture painting. Um. The overview for the 479 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: effect for the fleet then could occur if let's say, 480 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: the dog goes swimming, the dog dives, and the flea 481 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: is left on the surface and it is somehow far 482 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: enough away to see the scale of the world which 483 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: it lived, you know what I mean. That would be 484 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: the overview effect, as long as we don't worry too 485 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: much about flee sensory organs. But that's that's a beautiful image. Man, 486 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I really enjoy that. I've been 487 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: fascinated as well, Matt, as you know what the overview 488 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: effect for many many years. Man, it took in a 489 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: space camp. There here we go again, flaunting your space 490 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: camp at me. Now I know it isn't it me. 491 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: But what Chattner also points out is the the fact 492 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: that humans have self awareness and that we can, you know, 493 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: meta cognition, our way into understanding how good we have it, 494 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: and how this overview effect really just kind of hits 495 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: that home. The flea doesn't have that, so it would 496 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: just desperately try to find some other you know, sustainable 497 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: habitat to occupy or die in the process, you know, um, 498 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: but never really understand what it was that that was 499 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: sustaining it, or find another dog or another organism. We 500 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: don't have another dog dog, you know. Um. As expensive 501 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: it is, as it is to go to space just 502 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: with like a small crew. If things really took a turn, 503 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: I mean, we're screwed. If our dog dies, we're toast. 504 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: And uh, it is dying at least for us. But 505 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, again, there is this sense I'll just read 506 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: the last bit again just to kind of end on 507 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: a positive note that allows us perhaps a chance to 508 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: rededicate ourselves to our planet, to our dog, to each other, 509 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: to life and love all around us if we see 510 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: that chance. But as we know, as we talked about 511 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: in the Slurian episode recently, um industry and the byproducts 512 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: of you know, industrialization and humanity have created subsystems that 513 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: are now it's hard to put back in the box. UM. 514 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: So you can you can, you know, say this from 515 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: the perspective of a very wealthy man who has been 516 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: able to go to ACE. But we're not all going 517 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: to get to have that opportunity. We can read this 518 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: this exert and kind of understand it, we can think 519 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: about what that means. But it's not like this is 520 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: gonna all of a sudden change the course of the 521 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: moving pieces that are causing the death of our planet, 522 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: because they're all just so entrenched in these systems that 523 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: have been created, you know, And and there's just I 524 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: don't see any significant turning back to the point of 525 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: fixing things. But maybe I'm wrong. I hope you're wrong. Yeah, 526 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: I hope I am too. Um. But anyway, sorry for 527 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: this one being kind of a bummer, but I just 528 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: I was really taken by this. I thought it was 529 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: very beautifully written, and uh yeah, it is a book 530 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: co authored by Josh Brandon boldly go reflections on a 531 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,240 Speaker 1: life of awe and wonder that you can get I 532 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: believe now, um from Atria Books that came out just 533 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: earlier this month. So let's take another quick break and 534 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: then we'll come back with one more piece of strange news. 535 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: And we have returned. Uh. As you can tell, I 536 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: don't want to speak for everybody else, but I at 537 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: least have been going into some rabbit holes on the 538 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: future of technology as applied to law enforcement. This is 539 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: very much an earthly story, uh, and it is going 540 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: to be something that is going to affect I can't 541 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: remember the other two points. I was supposed to address 542 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: that last one, but something about overview effect. Check out 543 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: our earlier episode on that. So um, this this story 544 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: to frame it in a bit of a segue here. 545 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: This story makes me think there are a lot of 546 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: people in the tech industry and a lot of people 547 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: in law enforcement who could use a dose of the 548 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: overview effect. Police are in trouble because they've done something 549 00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: pretty bold and scientifically pretty exciting, but all so rightly 550 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: a bit terrifying. The Edmonton Police have used DNA to 551 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: generate three D images of suspects that they have never seen. 552 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: This already came about, like if you look at the news, 553 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: you'll you'll see vice on it. Of course, Uh, different 554 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: true crime blogs are covering it as well. I dove 555 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: into some of the labs that we're working with these folks, 556 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: and I'll give you the UM, I'll give you how 557 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,799 Speaker 1: it all shakes out at the end. But here's what 558 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: happened earlier this week, like just yesterday as we record this. 559 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: On October eleventh, the Edmonton Police Service shared out this 560 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: computer generated image of a suspect they created with DNA phenotyping. 561 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,479 Speaker 1: They used this for the first time in the hopes 562 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: of identifying a criminal or a suspect from a twenty 563 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: nineteen sexual assault case. So they were able to gather 564 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: DNA from the assailant and they got with a company 565 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: called Parabon Nano Labs Pribon Nano Labs. UM. I'm not 566 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: sure what Parabon stands for, but it does sound like 567 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 1: it would be one of those little one of those 568 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: little pretzel places in an airport somewhere, or a Cinnabon. 569 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: It reminds me a Cinnabon, but they don't do cinnabons. 570 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: They do d N A and you know, or welly 571 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: and thought crime stuff. Now, so the image they created, 572 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 1: which I will share here so we can only get 573 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: a look at it. The image they created is pretty 574 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: like it looks like a normal person. It looks like 575 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: it would be a computer generated face you might see 576 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: in a newer video game, right, like an MPC character 577 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: maybe who gives you a side quest. You can tell 578 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: it's a computer generated image, is what I'm saying. You 579 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yeah, it's very sky rim, very 580 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: arrow in the knee. Yeah. And uh, they have some 581 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: they have some stuff in there about the projected age. Uh, 582 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: you know, and they say it's a mail And they 583 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: also include ancestry because ancestry is a big part of 584 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: what you find with DNA. But the composite image did 585 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: not factor really factor in the age. They just decided 586 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: to show the assailant didn't factor in environmental variables like 587 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: facial hair, tattoos, scars. They released this on their website 588 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: and on multiple social media platforms and said this is 589 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: quote a last resort after all investigative avenues have been exhausted. 590 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 1: So first, before we go on, I don't want to 591 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: Ted talk here before we go on. What do you 592 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: guys think. They say it's a last resort, their leveraging 593 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: technology they're trying to find, uh, like a criminal an assailant. 594 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: Is this too far? Or is this overall the good thing? Ah? 595 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's sort of It's like the shot caller thing. 596 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: I always get the name of that one wrong. Yes, yeah, 597 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,720 Speaker 1: it just you know, the implications seem aligned with that 598 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: to a degree where like, if used correctly and if 599 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: it works as expected, then it could be okay and 600 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: potentially helpful. But I just it usually does. Well, here's 601 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 1: the problem. It's so generic, right, It's so generic. All 602 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: it can do is raise suspicion in anyone who has 603 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: read those posts, anyone who saw that image, Any citizen 604 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 1: or law enforcement officer that sees it is gonna go okay, Well, 605 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: I want to be on the lookout for any suspect 606 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: that matches this description, uh generic African man. Yeah, I 607 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: mean it specifically says with the parts of Africa from 608 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: where this person allegedly you know, was born with their 609 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: DNA arises from. And you match that super generic image 610 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: with the description that the only description that they have working, right, 611 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,959 Speaker 1: which is also super vague. Right, he's simply described as 612 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: five ft four with pants and a sweater or a 613 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: hoodie as a hat. Uh. And it might have an accent, Yeah, 614 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: but no one knows what kinds. So yeah, I'm glad 615 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: you point that out because many privacy experts are already 616 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: raising hell about this, and rightly so. At least the 617 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: way EPs is handling this, they're not um. I mean, 618 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: clearly they have good intentions. They're trying to catch a 619 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: bad guy, but the information they're working off of and 620 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: the image they put out is frankly dangerous. And this 621 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: is not just me saying this, This is a statement 622 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: from Jennifer Lynch, the surveillance litigation director the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Uh. 623 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: Jennifer agrees with me and says in full, she says, quote, 624 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,440 Speaker 1: releasing one of these parabond images to the public, like 625 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 1: the Edmonton Police did recently is dangerous and responsible, especially 626 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: when that image implicates a black person and an immigrant. 627 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 1: And she goes on to note people of color already 628 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: disproportionately targeted for criminal investigations, and this will not only 629 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: exacerbate the problem, it could result in public vigilantism and 630 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: harm to misidentified individuals. Like to your point, Matt, the 631 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: the description is so vague that someone may use that 632 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: as a justification, right, and they'll say there they are, 633 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 1: and there's no specific identifier there. This can mislead people. 634 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 1: You have to to really get a sense of it. 635 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: I would recommend checking out the checking out the Vice article, 636 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: and then also checking out places like Messa media or 637 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: mess ha dot media. UH. They have a right up 638 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: on this as well. If you scrolled down here and this, UH, 639 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: shout out to the author here, credit where it's due, 640 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: Chloe shang over at Motherboard. UH. This this article shows 641 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: something called snapshot d n A analysis. Later on on 642 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: the Parabond site itself, you can find multiple case studies 643 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: where they'll give you a sense of how sometimes accurate 644 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: and how strangely dangerously misleading some of these things can be. 645 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: I'll show one picture first that is pretty close. Okay, 646 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 1: So we're looking at what is the second case study 647 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: in this uh, in this exploration, and you'll see it 648 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: actual photo and then the digitally reproduced from DNA information 649 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: photo or rendering, we should say, so the UM photo 650 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: on the right, the actual photo of the actual person 651 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: looks like, uh, pretty generic white guy. Maybe a few freckles, um, 652 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,399 Speaker 1: Matt pointed out off are he's got some spiky hair. 653 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: How would you guys describe the resemblance here. I mean 654 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: it's fairly close. I guess, I don't know. Um, it 655 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: is fairly close. Actually, I'm looking specifically at the nose, 656 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: the ears, and the eyes, because those are things that 657 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't change very much. Um. Yeah, i'd give it an 658 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: eight five. Okay, hey, that's pretty nice. No, does this 659 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: look like it's a comparative, comparatively similar rendering to you. Yeah, 660 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: Even the curvature of the face, like the picture on 661 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,879 Speaker 1: the right, there's some kind of sunkenness to the eye 662 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: are like some kind of you know, the relief of it. Uh, 663 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: And that's captured pretty well. The lips are a little 664 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: thinner in the reproduction, but I mean the eyebrow, I 665 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: mean it's it's a little uh. The ears the way 666 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 1: they you know, sit on the head. The you know, 667 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: people have different types of ears to stick out or 668 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: or you know, closer to the head, and that you 669 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: got to get to that, right, Even like the atoms 670 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: apple in the curvature of the neck. I mean it's 671 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: pretty wild. Yeah, I tend to agree with you guys. 672 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,399 Speaker 1: There there's some little things that side by side look off, 673 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: like the curvature of the mouth is a little bit 674 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: different in the actual person. But it's also very easy 675 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: for us to see those differences where we have both 676 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: of them to look at side by side. What you'll 677 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,280 Speaker 1: see at the bottom when you look at these things, 678 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,120 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist, is a spectrum for eye color, for 679 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: skin color, hair color, and freckles. And then they'll include sex, age, 680 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: body mass, and ancestry UH and in both the case 681 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: of the age and the body mass they say unknown. 682 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: And then in parentheses they just tell you what they 683 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: chose for the rendering. And that's where things get really sticky, 684 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 1: because if we just scroll back up just a little bit, 685 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: we'll see another composite profile where where there's a guy 686 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: who looks twenty five in his UH, in his like 687 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: elden ring or well not elden Rings. You know, have 688 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,400 Speaker 1: regular looking people there in his sky rim or g 689 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,439 Speaker 1: T A version. But what about that photo on the right. 690 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: Not good? I mean, this one's just whack it, primarily 691 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: because they don't take into account body mass index right 692 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: or yep, um. But like so, the the actual um 693 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: person I guess it was picked up in the mug 694 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: shot here, is quite a bit overweight, and he does 695 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: appear quite a bit older than the photo than the 696 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,800 Speaker 1: generated photo. But the chin, like, look at the chin, guys, 697 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: that is a very different chin to me. It's a 698 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: very different chin. Look at the cast of the eyebrows 699 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: as well. The distance between the eyes is like that 700 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: a little harder to tell because of the glasses, but 701 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: you can tell where the eyebrows are. Even the trajectory 702 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,360 Speaker 1: of the eyebrows is different, right, There's little more of 703 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: an angle there unless he gets his eyebrows done, you 704 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: know what I mean. No judgment. People are into that 705 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: kind of stuff so well. But I think the issue 706 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: here though, is like I've seen people that look like 707 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: that guy on the left. He looks kind of like 708 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,360 Speaker 1: a run of the mill hipster type dude, you know 709 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: what I mean. He's got a faster bass player vibes. 710 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: And I mean that you're not going to be looking 711 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,439 Speaker 1: for a guy that looks to anything like the dude 712 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: on the right at all, And you could very easily 713 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: pick out a type or a dude that looks like 714 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:09,399 Speaker 1: the guy on the left, uh, and be dead. Wrong guys, 715 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,879 Speaker 1: How is this any different from a police sketch. That's 716 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,919 Speaker 1: a good question, It's it's a very good questions. How 717 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: it's different. It is based on traceable information. So DNA 718 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,880 Speaker 1: evidence is much more reliable than an eyewitness accounts because 719 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't suffer from the same hazards of memory. But 720 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: I would say the way in which this is being 721 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 1: used has an incredibly high likelihood of getting innocent people 722 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: detained or jammed up the processes. If you think about it, 723 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: the way they're looking through some of these things. Um, 724 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: let's say you have something like the D'Angelo case, the 725 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: original night stalker. Uh. That guy was caught using old 726 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: DNA evidence, and he was tracked down because a relative 727 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: was in a DNA database, and ultimately they you know, 728 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,680 Speaker 1: they went through his trash and they got stuff that 729 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:19,839 Speaker 1: had come in contact with his body and they were 730 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 1: able to confirm the d NA. What's happening here. The 731 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:29,359 Speaker 1: idea would be, maybe you can make this, like, make 732 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,279 Speaker 1: this rendering close enough to the real thing that you 733 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: could run it through some sort of other database, or 734 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,279 Speaker 1: you could find older photographs of the of the assailants 735 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,360 Speaker 1: around the time the crime was committed, and then trace 736 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: the providence of those photographs of the people in them 737 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: maybe or the face that pops up in the database 738 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: to someone. The problem is when you go to that, 739 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: when you make this public. Uh, if it's this vague, 740 00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: then people are going to be targeted. I think that 741 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: one of the big concerns. People are going to be 742 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: targeted without real cause by civilians, by law enforcement as well. 743 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,759 Speaker 1: I mean, this is like what happens when the police 744 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: detain you and don't tell you why, but they say, look, 745 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 1: all you have to do is give us a d 746 00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: N a sample. What would you say. The correct answer 747 00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,880 Speaker 1: is lawyer, by the way, Oh yeah, I mean, you know. 748 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: But it's also one of those things where if you 749 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,240 Speaker 1: if you're if you're innocent, and you know you're innocent, 750 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: and you you know, have a naive trust of the system, 751 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: you might just say yes. But then it could confirm 752 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: something even if you know what I mean, like, it 753 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,760 Speaker 1: could actually put you in Dutch even if you didn't 754 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,520 Speaker 1: do it because of this new technology and what it 755 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:52,360 Speaker 1: would confirm, you know. And this this is where you 756 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,840 Speaker 1: know this stuff is of future episode in my opinion 757 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,399 Speaker 1: and wish we have more time to dedicate to it now. 758 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: But what I would love to hear everybody's thoughts on this. 759 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,799 Speaker 1: What do you think is it? If we do the 760 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,879 Speaker 1: cost benefit, is it better for society to have this? 761 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: Or are there do the consequences outnumber the possible benefits. 762 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: Let us know. We can't wait to hear from you. 763 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,200 Speaker 1: Will be back tomorrow with a classic episode. We've got 764 00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 1: some new stuff up our sleeve later this week. We 765 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: can't wait to bring it to you. And in the meantime, 766 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear from you. Have you experienced 767 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: the overview effect astronauts and the audience? Let us know 768 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,279 Speaker 1: what's going on. What kind of creepy crawley things in 769 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: your mouth? What do you think is the future of 770 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: microscopic super organisms? You know, if we can teach them 771 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,880 Speaker 1: to do some handy stuff like you know, like the 772 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: shrimp that eat plastic, maybe this is the beginning of 773 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: a beautiful friendship. Give us your take. We want to 774 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,319 Speaker 1: be easy to find online and we are. You can 775 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: find us on the Facebook and Twitter and YouTube with 776 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 1: the handle conspiracy Stuff on Instagram or conspiracy Stuff Show. Yes, 777 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: we have a phone number. It's one H three three 778 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,799 Speaker 1: std w y t K. Give it a call, leave 779 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: a voicemail. You've got three minutes. Say whatever you want. 780 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,480 Speaker 1: Give yourself a cool nickname. Let us know if we 781 00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: can use your voice and message on the air. If 782 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: you don't like sending voicemails, we get it. And your 783 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 1: phone is kind of weird. It's literally the thing that's 784 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,440 Speaker 1: keeping track of you right now and everything you're doing. 785 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: Why not instead send us an email which is also tracked. 786 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can use proton mail or something if you want. 787 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:59,360 Speaker 1: Our email address is conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 788 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 789 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,760 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 790 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,760 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 791 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.