Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from
Speaker 2: Bloomberg News.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 2: On the show, we're bringing you a special conversation in full.
Speaker 2: Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, sits
Speaker 2: down with Bloomberg's Michelle Hussein at ten Downing Street. Michelle
Speaker 2: is editor at large for Bloomberg Weekend, and the interview
Speaker 2: took place on Friday, hours after Israel launched an attack
Speaker 2: on Iran, striking what Prime Minister Benjamin Nett and Yahoo
Speaker 2: described as the heart of its nuclear enrichment program, and
Speaker 2: Starmer is preparing to travel to Canada for a meeting
Speaker 2: of the G seven. It covered a lot of ground,
Speaker 2: including defense spending, the path forward for Ukraine, and the
Speaker 2: UK's trade talks with the US, but their conversation started
Speaker 2: with the latest developments in the Middle East. Here's Michelle
Speaker 2: Hussein's interview with UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, just as you're about to leave for the
Speaker 1: G seven, Israel's carried out what it describes as a
Speaker 1: preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear target. It's two hundred fighter jets,
Speaker 1: more than three hundred bombs, the site struck, including homes.
Speaker 1: Would you say Israel is justified in the action it's taken.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing,
Speaker 4: and it's obvious that for a long time we've had
Speaker 4: grave concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together,
Speaker 4: and we absolutely recognize as Roel's right to self defense.
Speaker 3: We the UK were not evolved in this attack.
Speaker 4: And we're urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate
Speaker 4: as the way forward here, and obviously we're talking to
Speaker 4: allies about that. We have been this week. We are
Speaker 4: intensively talking to allies today.
Speaker 1: In March, US national intelligence made it public that they
Speaker 1: did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons. So has
Speaker 1: something changed in the assessment since then.
Speaker 4: Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we
Speaker 4: aren't gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President
Speaker 4: Macron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we
Speaker 4: are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look,
Speaker 4: the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're
Speaker 4: all saying de escalate in relation to this incident. But
Speaker 4: none of us were involved in the actual attack.
Speaker 1: Does that mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact
Speaker 1: that Israel has taken this very made this very big move,
Speaker 1: preemptive military action. I mean, you're concerned about Iran's nuclear program,
Speaker 1: you're also concerned about Israel's choice of action.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going
Speaker 4: to speak to Prime Minister Nettaya who shortly after this interview,
Speaker 4: so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion. I do
Speaker 4: recognize Israel's right to self defense, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3: But I am very concerned about.
Speaker 4: The escalation of this situation, which is why, along with
Speaker 4: Germany and France, were really clear that de escalation is
Speaker 4: what is needed here.
Speaker 1: Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack
Speaker 1: as it has done before.
Speaker 4: Well, this is happening in real time as we speak,
Speaker 4: and I'm not going to go into operational matters, if
Speaker 4: you'll forgive me for that. But as I say, the
Speaker 4: principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely clear
Speaker 4: and we stand by that. But this is a fast
Speaker 4: moving situation, as you will understand.
Speaker 1: At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza,
Speaker 1: the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling.
Speaker 1: Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with
Speaker 1: Canada and France which called for three things, for her
Speaker 1: master release the hostages, for Israel's military operations in Gaza
Speaker 1: to cease, and for Israel to let AID into Gaza
Speaker 1: in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN in
Speaker 1: delivering it. None of those things have happened. What action
Speaker 1: will you take now, Well.
Speaker 4: You'll have seen that we take an action in relation
Speaker 4: to sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and
Speaker 4: it is important that we consider what other options that
Speaker 4: we have. I always think in these situations it's better
Speaker 4: to act with allies, which is why we're coordinating what
Speaker 4: we're doing. But the situation in Gaza is absolutely intolerable.
Speaker 4: The AID arrangements are not adequate, nor are they going
Speaker 4: to be adequate, and so that's why we've been consistently
Speaker 4: calling for a return to the ceasefire.
Speaker 3: Of course, the release of the hostages.
Speaker 4: The remaining hostages have been there a very long time
Speaker 4: in awful circumstances, but we must get that AID in
Speaker 4: at speed, at volume, and the current arrangements are not
Speaker 4: going to deliver that and main following have been very
Speaker 4: clear in our messaging all this and our coordination all this,
Speaker 4: and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning.
Speaker 1: Which you've already done, and as I said, there's been
Speaker 1: no change to the situation. An action you could take
Speaker 1: is recognizing of Palestinian state, and President micro is leading
Speaker 1: on a con conference at the UN next week on
Speaker 1: that very subject.
Speaker 4: Well, we've got long standing policy as a labor party's
Speaker 4: labor government that recognition should be part of a process,
Speaker 4: and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen
Speaker 4: in the conference next week, I think is unclear.
Speaker 3: And obviously now.
Speaker 4: The immediate issue is the Israeli attack overnight, and so
Speaker 4: there are a lot of moving parts at the moment.
Speaker 4: But the principle, the principle we've always held is that
Speaker 4: the only long term solution in relation to Palestine in
Speaker 4: the Middle East is a two state solution, and although
Speaker 4: it seems further off now than perhaps it's seen for
Speaker 4: some time, we have to be clear that is the
Speaker 4: only path through that Recognition at the right part of
Speaker 4: the process has always been our long standing policy.
Speaker 1: So why would this not be the moment because the
Speaker 1: action you've taken so far has not resulted in a
Speaker 1: change on the ground. And in the West Bank there's
Speaker 1: an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled
Speaker 1: from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of
Speaker 1: Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, and
Speaker 1: recognizing if Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you
Speaker 1: want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that.
Speaker 3: Well, we do have a special responsibility.
Speaker 4: You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our
Speaker 4: manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it
Speaker 4: must be the appropriate part of the process that will
Speaker 4: alleviate the situation.
Speaker 1: It doesn't exist at the moment, there is no peace process.
Speaker 4: Well, that's why it must be part of the process. Obviously,
Speaker 4: as you would expect, we are talking to allies, like
Speaker 4: minded countries about this very issue. But it must be
Speaker 4: in accord with a manifesto, part of a process that
Speaker 4: leads to a two state solution. It's the outcome that
Speaker 4: matters in this hugely. Given the intolerable situation.
Speaker 1: Can you see the moment where you might in fact, well,
Speaker 1: can you see the moment where you might have to
Speaker 1: do things independently of any process, because there isn't one.
Speaker 1: And indeed, the Israeli government is saying openly that it's
Speaker 1: trying to prevent the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian
Speaker 1: state through settlement expansion.
Speaker 4: Well, that's why we're talking to international partners about what
Speaker 4: can be done, what should be done, what's the appropriate path,
Speaker 4: and we'll continue to do that. I strongly believe that
Speaker 4: we are better, more effective when we're acting with allies
Speaker 4: with others at the same time. That's why we took
Speaker 4: the approach we did on sanctions, and it's the same
Speaker 4: mindset that I bring to this.
Speaker 1: Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia. And you've worked very,
Speaker 1: very hard on to help the US administration see Ukraine
Speaker 1: slightly differently, to push them further towards greater action on Russia.
Speaker 1: And you'll be seeing President Trump at the G seven summit.
Speaker 1: Do you understand what he is trying to do on Russia.
Speaker 4: I'm clear in my own mind that President Trump wants
Speaker 4: to bring that an end to the conflict. I have
Speaker 4: no doubt about that, and we are moving closer. I
Speaker 4: hope to some sort of ceasefire, some sort of deal Ukraine.
Speaker 4: President Zelenski has been absolutely clear that he wants that
Speaker 4: unconditional ceasefire. Putin, in my view, is dragging his heels,
Speaker 4: which is why I think it is important for us,
Speaker 4: together with others, to say it will be consequences if
Speaker 4: Russia doesn't come forward to an unconditional cease fire.
Speaker 1: And it seemed that you had it, did seem that
Speaker 1: you had you you thought you had persuaded President Trump
Speaker 1: on that when you went to Kiev, when you and
Speaker 1: the other European leaders called in, you said, working with
Speaker 1: President Trump, we're going to ramp up sanctions, and then
Speaker 1: nothing came of it. President Trump talked tough for a
Speaker 1: while about Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is he
Speaker 1: going to pressure mister Putin?
Speaker 4: Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and
Speaker 4: we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US as
Speaker 4: would expect with a trusted ally in this The path
Speaker 4: to peace is rarely straightforward in any conflict. But I
Speaker 4: do believe that that is what President Trump wants. That
Speaker 4: is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is a
Speaker 4: conflict of war that's been waged on them by the addressor,
Speaker 4: which is Russia, and so we are doing everything to
Speaker 4: bring about that outcome. But ASD say, the path from
Speaker 4: conflict to peace is rarely straightforward. But I'm absolutely determined
Speaker 4: that the UK will play a leading part, and I'm
Speaker 4: very pleased that the UK has seemed to be able
Speaker 4: to play that leading part in resolving the conflict. And
Speaker 4: I remind myself always that not only is this about
Speaker 4: the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is, but
Speaker 4: it is also about our values in Europe, and it's
Speaker 4: also about the direct impact it has back here at
Speaker 4: home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy or
Speaker 4: the cost of living, this communities, individuals in the UK
Speaker 4: have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and therefore
Speaker 4: we need to redouble our efforts to bring about a
Speaker 4: lasting piece, on a temporary piece, a lasting piece.
Speaker 1: Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump
Speaker 1: will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind
Speaker 1: of measure that might pressure put In to come.
Speaker 5: To the negotiating table.
Speaker 4: He said on a number of occasions that's what he
Speaker 4: will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him.
Speaker 1: He also say he did in the war in twenty
Speaker 1: four hours.
Speaker 4: Well, as I say, the path, if you look at
Speaker 4: any conflict historically, the path to piece has never been straightforward.
Speaker 4: But the determination is there, the intent is there, and
Speaker 4: I do believe we're making progress, but it must be
Speaker 4: a lasting piece.
Speaker 1: You have led on this idea of the Coalition of
Speaker 1: the Willing and a reassurance force for post war Ukraine.
Speaker 1: Have you got a commitment from the US that it
Speaker 1: would provide air cover for that future force to deter
Speaker 1: Russia from attacking Ukraine in the future.
Speaker 4: Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back,
Speaker 4: and I've always been clear that there must be a
Speaker 4: US element to this. But on the other hand, I
Speaker 4: do think that Europe needs to step up in its
Speaker 4: own right, in its own collective security and self defense.
Speaker 4: And that's why, along with President Macron, we have led,
Speaker 4: as it were, on the Coalition of the Willing, which
Speaker 4: is to go, if you like, at the pace of
Speaker 4: those that want to go furthest rather than at the
Speaker 4: pace of those who are the most cautious, and to
Speaker 4: start some of the planning that is going to be needed.
Speaker 4: Then the further we get into the planning of what's
Speaker 4: actually going to be needed in the air, in the sea,
Speaker 4: and possibly on land, the more convinced I am. This
Speaker 4: is the military planning that is planning needs to go
Speaker 4: on now, it's planning that can't go on after the event,
Speaker 4: so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of moving parts, there's a lot of questions that
Speaker 4: aren't answered yet, but the military planning is getting to
Speaker 4: quite an advanced stage.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: Having your back, as President Trump has said, is not
Speaker 1: the same as saying I will provide US air cover.
Speaker 1: Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit
Speaker 1: to air cover for a post warforce.
Speaker 4: Well, look, I'm not going to get into the private
Speaker 4: discussions that we are having, but what I would say
Speaker 4: is this that there are no two countries that act
Speaker 4: as closely together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing
Speaker 4: as the US and the UK, and that aspect of
Speaker 4: our relationship is as strong today as it's ever been.
Speaker 3: And my commitment to it is their. President Trump's commitment
Speaker 3: to it is there.
Speaker 4: We've discussed it between ourselves, so that is an unshakable
Speaker 4: link between our countries.
Speaker 1: It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you
Speaker 1: to And would you be prepared to put US to
Speaker 1: put British troops on the ground as part of a
Speaker 1: post war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air
Speaker 1: cover to protect them.
Speaker 4: Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection.
Speaker 4: I have said we would be willing to put our
Speaker 4: troops on the ground, but there has to be that
Speaker 4: US backstop if you like.
Speaker 5: So if it's not there, what happens to the worst
Speaker 5: or force.
Speaker 4: We are discussing this, but I have no reason to
Speaker 4: believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together
Speaker 4: as we've done historically for many, many years, as we
Speaker 4: are doing every single day of the week. Our teams
Speaker 4: are in constant touch with each other. As I say,
Speaker 4: we must never lose sight of the fact that the
Speaker 4: US and the UK are as close as any two
Speaker 4: countries on defense, security and the intelligence that we share
Speaker 4: with each other.
Speaker 2: After the break the latest on trade talks between the
Speaker 2: United States and the U United Kingdom, and the UK
Speaker 2: Prime Minister looks ahead to a pivotal NATO summit later
Speaker 2: this month.
Speaker 1: There's another live bilateral issue which is the state of
Speaker 1: your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement it.
Speaker 1: And the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks, which
Speaker 1: would take us to next Wednesday.
Speaker 5: So will it be implemented in that timeframe.
Speaker 4: We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very
Speaker 4: pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge
Speaker 4: relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly
Speaker 4: JLR workers that I went to see before we started
Speaker 4: the negotiations. I went to see immediately after negotiations, and
Speaker 4: so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created by
Speaker 4: this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but we're
Speaker 4: at the end of that process and I hope that
Speaker 4: we can complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 1: Now is that the same as within the two weeks
Speaker 1: by next Wednesday?
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making
Speaker 4: good progress. There's nothing unexpected in the implementation and so
Speaker 4: we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles.
Speaker 5: Why isn't it done yet.
Speaker 4: Because there are both sides agreed what they would do
Speaker 4: in order to implement, and so we're working through what
Speaker 4: we the UK have to do what the US is
Speaker 4: going to do so we can implement it.
Speaker 3: That was as we're envisaged.
Speaker 1: Not long after the G seven someone, you'll have the
Speaker 1: NATO summit coming up, and there there is a very
Speaker 1: specific new ask, which is that the US administration says
Speaker 1: is NATO itself says is to spend five percent of
Speaker 1: GDP on defense, understood to be by the year twenty
Speaker 1: thirty two, three and a half percent on core defense spending.
Speaker 5: Will you be committing to that?
Speaker 4: Well, let me go through what we've already committed to,
Speaker 4: which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being
Speaker 4: spent on defense by twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. I
Speaker 4: think that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to,
Speaker 4: and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since
Speaker 4: the Cold War. With an ambition then to go to
Speaker 4: three percent in the next Parliament set that all out
Speaker 4: alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I accept the proposition I've
Speaker 4: advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO. Our Strategic
Speaker 4: Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all
Speaker 4: European countries need to step up. There's been a sort
Speaker 4: of criticism that Europe hasn't carried its fair share of
Speaker 4: the burden.
Speaker 3: I think that's right.
Speaker 4: So I've said to European allies we need to do
Speaker 4: more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise
Speaker 4: wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a
Speaker 4: matter of some negotiation.
Speaker 3: What I'm really clear about is.
Speaker 4: That NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence for
Speaker 4: eighty plus years. It is the most important successful military
Speaker 4: alliance that's ever been and I think it's important for
Speaker 4: that summit in just over a week's time to be
Speaker 4: a real show of unity and to show our responsibility
Speaker 4: not just to reflect on the last eighty years of NATO,
Speaker 4: but to play our part in ensuring that we continue
Speaker 4: peace in Europe.
Speaker 3: And that's all NATO.
Speaker 1: And that's the broad picture, But there is now this
Speaker 1: very specific lass and your current commitment, as your current ambition,
Speaker 1: is for three percent of GDP spent on defense by
Speaker 1: the year twenty thirty four in the next parliament. So
Speaker 1: could it be your ambition by the time of this
Speaker 1: summit to raise that to three and a half percent,
Speaker 1: because if you don't, you can't really claim to be
Speaker 1: the leading European nation in NATO.
Speaker 4: Well, I had Mark rot of the Sexuary General of
Speaker 4: NATO here in this room on Monday to discuss how
Speaker 4: together we would go into this summit.
Speaker 3: And there's still.
Speaker 4: Discussions going on as to price precisely what the wording
Speaker 4: of what the commitment will be. But I mean, he
Speaker 4: was very clear to me that he welcomed our uplift
Speaker 4: to two point five percent. It was very pleased that
Speaker 4: we had done that. It was very pleased with a
Speaker 4: strategic defense, it's all good.
Speaker 5: It's just a long way from what you want. And
Speaker 5: the US says everyone's going to agree to this within weeks.
Speaker 5: Forget week, We're going to be a very difficult summit.
Speaker 4: To NATO, not just in our troops but also our
Speaker 4: nuclear commitment to NATO. Were the only country that commits
Speaker 4: our nuclear capability to NATO, and so I think he
Speaker 4: would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a huge
Speaker 4: contribution to NATO and I am absolutely determined that that
Speaker 4: summit in just over a week will be a huge
Speaker 4: success and an opportunity to show the strength together that
Speaker 4: we have as NATO allies, but also to send a
Speaker 4: very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally important
Speaker 4: in what is a more unstable world than I think
Speaker 4: we've seen for many, many years.
Speaker 1: Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that
Speaker 1: you've just set out for national renewal, a new phase
Speaker 1: of your government. There are some concerns that the growth
Speaker 1: picture is not necessarily going to with the forecast going
Speaker 1: to support your spending plans. And there is a group
Speaker 1: of people that Bloomberg have looked into company filings and
Speaker 1: they've seen the thousands of company directors have left the
Speaker 1: country relocating out of the UK in the last year.
Speaker 1: Is this a group of people that you can really
Speaker 1: afford to use? Don't you need to have those people
Speaker 1: here to look at the opportunities for investment? Might you
Speaker 1: consider an investor visa?
Speaker 4: Well, let me put this in the context because obviously,
Speaker 4: and I won't go over this at great detail, but
Speaker 4: we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything
Speaker 4: was broken, the economy, public services.
Speaker 5: You name it, which is why you raised we had to.
Speaker 4: Take difficult but right decisions in the budget, and that,
Speaker 4: if you like, was year one of this labor government,
Speaker 4: which was clear up the mess, take the difficult but
Speaker 4: necessary decisions. We're now very clearly moving into sort of
Speaker 4: phase two, which is what the spending review ushers in,
Speaker 4: which is being clear, what's the benefit from this, what's
Speaker 4: the yield?
Speaker 3: Where are you putting your money? And I'm really proud.
Speaker 4: That we're rolling out a program of real labor values
Speaker 4: in terms of investment, whether that's things like sigh as well.
Speaker 1: So might investor be part of it, It's just is
Speaker 1: it something you're considering.
Speaker 4: I want more investors to come into the country, I
Speaker 4: want top talent to come into the country. But I
Speaker 4: would just push back a little because we've had record
Speaker 4: investment into the UK since the last election. We've just
Speaker 4: had London Tech Week where we had some of the
Speaker 4: most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing
Speaker 4: the praises of the UK and why now is the
Speaker 4: right time to invest in the UK.
Speaker 1: He's also lost about a quarter of a million jobs
Speaker 1: since the autumn, so it's not all as rosy.
Speaker 4: As we've actually, I mean, five hundred thousand more people
Speaker 4: are in work than at the day to the last election,
Speaker 4: and the.
Speaker 1: Actually since you raise taxes in the autumn. This is
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a million.
Speaker 5: Jobs have been lost.
Speaker 4: If he looked at the number of people in work,
Speaker 4: it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If
Speaker 4: you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review,
Speaker 4: there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size well that
Speaker 4: we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs. And
Speaker 4: my job is to make sure that good and well paid,
Speaker 4: secure jobs are there and to attract that investment and
Speaker 4: for international investment. I do think this is a really
Speaker 4: important point, and Bloomberg will understand.
Speaker 3: This almost beends on anyone.
Speaker 4: Those global investors have a choice as to which country
Speaker 4: they put their money in. They chose not to put
Speaker 4: their money into the UK for many years before the election.
Speaker 4: Now we've had record inward investment. That is because they've
Speaker 4: got confidence in what we're doing. They're putting their money in,
Speaker 4: and that to me speaks volumes.
Speaker 1: Final thought, is President Trump coming Intomber for his state visit?
Speaker 4: Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will organize
Speaker 4: the dates.
Speaker 3: But President Trump will be coming for his state visit and.
Speaker 5: In the autumn, and that is really good.
Speaker 3: Well, the Palace will do it.
Speaker 5: But is it this here?
Speaker 3: Well, I hope.
Speaker 4: So yes, but as I said, i'll leave it. I'd
Speaker 4: want to take over the job of the Palace. It's
Speaker 4: their job to set out exactly the dates of the invitation.
Speaker 4: But I'm really pleased that we will be able to
Speaker 4: showcase the close relationship we have between the UK and
Speaker 4: the US. That's historically a close relationship, and this will
Speaker 4: be a historic second visit for President Trump and we're
Speaker 4: all looking forward to welcoming him here.
Speaker 5: Prime Minister, thank you very much, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerre.
Speaker 2: This conversation was part of the Bloomberg Weekend Interview. We're
Speaker 2: host Michelle Hussein speaks to influential voices in politics, business
Speaker 2: and culture from around the globe. You can find an
Speaker 2: annotated transcript of this Starmer interview, as well as an
Speaker 2: archive of past conversations with folks like Elon Musk and
Speaker 2: Succession creator Jesse Armstrong at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Weekend,
Speaker 2: or in the Bloomberg app Our special Thanks to Jessica Beck.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and have a great weekend.