1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 2: I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News. 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 3: Today. 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: On the show, we're bringing you a special conversation in full. 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, sits 7 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: down with Bloomberg's Michelle Hussein at ten Downing Street. Michelle 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: is editor at large for Bloomberg Weekend, and the interview 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: took place on Friday, hours after Israel launched an attack 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: on Iran, striking what Prime Minister Benjamin Nett and Yahoo 11 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: described as the heart of its nuclear enrichment program, and 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: Starmer is preparing to travel to Canada for a meeting 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: of the G seven. It covered a lot of ground, 14 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: including defense spending, the path forward for Ukraine, and the 15 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: UK's trade talks with the US, but their conversation started 16 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 2: with the latest developments in the Middle East. Here's Michelle 17 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 2: Hussein's interview with UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer. 18 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: Prime Minister, just as you're about to leave for the 19 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: G seven, Israel's carried out what it describes as a 20 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear target. It's two hundred fighter jets, 21 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: more than three hundred bombs, the site struck, including homes. 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: Would you say Israel is justified in the action it's taken. 23 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,919 Speaker 4: Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing, 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 4: and it's obvious that for a long time we've had 25 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 4: grave concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together, 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 4: and we absolutely recognize as Roel's right to self defense. 27 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 3: We the UK were not evolved in this attack. 28 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 4: And we're urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 4: as the way forward here, and obviously we're talking to 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 4: allies about that. We have been this week. We are 31 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 4: intensively talking to allies today. 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: In March, US national intelligence made it public that they 33 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons. So has 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: something changed in the assessment since then. 35 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 4: Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we 36 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 4: aren't gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President 37 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 4: Macron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we 38 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 4: are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look, 39 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 4: the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're 40 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 4: all saying de escalate in relation to this incident. But 41 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 4: none of us were involved in the actual attack. 42 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: Does that mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact 43 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: that Israel has taken this very made this very big move, 44 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: preemptive military action. I mean, you're concerned about Iran's nuclear program, 45 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: you're also concerned about Israel's choice of action. 46 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 4: Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going 47 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 4: to speak to Prime Minister Nettaya who shortly after this interview, 48 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 4: so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion. I do 49 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 4: recognize Israel's right to self defense, there's no doubt about that. 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: But I am very concerned about. 51 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 4: The escalation of this situation, which is why, along with 52 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 4: Germany and France, were really clear that de escalation is 53 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 4: what is needed here. 54 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack 55 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: as it has done before. 56 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 4: Well, this is happening in real time as we speak, 57 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 4: and I'm not going to go into operational matters, if 58 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 4: you'll forgive me for that. But as I say, the 59 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely clear 60 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 4: and we stand by that. But this is a fast 61 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 4: moving situation, as you will understand. 62 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza, 63 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling. 64 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with 65 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: Canada and France which called for three things, for her 66 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: master release the hostages, for Israel's military operations in Gaza 67 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: to cease, and for Israel to let AID into Gaza 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN in 69 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: delivering it. None of those things have happened. What action 70 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: will you take now, Well. 71 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 4: You'll have seen that we take an action in relation 72 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 4: to sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and 73 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 4: it is important that we consider what other options that 74 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 4: we have. I always think in these situations it's better 75 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 4: to act with allies, which is why we're coordinating what 76 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 4: we're doing. But the situation in Gaza is absolutely intolerable. 77 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 4: The AID arrangements are not adequate, nor are they going 78 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 4: to be adequate, and so that's why we've been consistently 79 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 4: calling for a return to the ceasefire. 80 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: Of course, the release of the hostages. 81 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 4: The remaining hostages have been there a very long time 82 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 4: in awful circumstances, but we must get that AID in 83 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 4: at speed, at volume, and the current arrangements are not 84 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 4: going to deliver that and main following have been very 85 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 4: clear in our messaging all this and our coordination all this, 86 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 4: and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning. 87 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: Which you've already done, and as I said, there's been 88 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: no change to the situation. An action you could take 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: is recognizing of Palestinian state, and President micro is leading 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: on a con conference at the UN next week on 91 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: that very subject. 92 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 4: Well, we've got long standing policy as a labor party's 93 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 4: labor government that recognition should be part of a process, 94 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 4: and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen 95 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,799 Speaker 4: in the conference next week, I think is unclear. 96 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 3: And obviously now. 97 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 4: The immediate issue is the Israeli attack overnight, and so 98 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 4: there are a lot of moving parts at the moment. 99 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 4: But the principle, the principle we've always held is that 100 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: the only long term solution in relation to Palestine in 101 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,119 Speaker 4: the Middle East is a two state solution, and although 102 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 4: it seems further off now than perhaps it's seen for 103 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 4: some time, we have to be clear that is the 104 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 4: only path through that Recognition at the right part of 105 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 4: the process has always been our long standing policy. 106 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: So why would this not be the moment because the 107 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: action you've taken so far has not resulted in a 108 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: change on the ground. And in the West Bank there's 109 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled 110 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of 111 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, and 112 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: recognizing if Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you 113 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that. 114 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 3: Well, we do have a special responsibility. 115 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our 116 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 4: manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it 117 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: must be the appropriate part of the process that will 118 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 4: alleviate the situation. 119 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't exist at the moment, there is no peace process. 120 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 4: Well, that's why it must be part of the process. Obviously, 121 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 4: as you would expect, we are talking to allies, like 122 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 4: minded countries about this very issue. But it must be 123 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 4: in accord with a manifesto, part of a process that 124 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 4: leads to a two state solution. It's the outcome that 125 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 4: matters in this hugely. Given the intolerable situation. 126 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: Can you see the moment where you might in fact, well, 127 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: can you see the moment where you might have to 128 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: do things independently of any process, because there isn't one. 129 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: And indeed, the Israeli government is saying openly that it's 130 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: trying to prevent the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian 131 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: state through settlement expansion. 132 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 4: Well, that's why we're talking to international partners about what 133 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 4: can be done, what should be done, what's the appropriate path, 134 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 4: and we'll continue to do that. I strongly believe that 135 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 4: we are better, more effective when we're acting with allies 136 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 4: with others at the same time. That's why we took 137 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 4: the approach we did on sanctions, and it's the same 138 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 4: mindset that I bring to this. 139 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia. And you've worked very, 140 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: very hard on to help the US administration see Ukraine 141 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: slightly differently, to push them further towards greater action on Russia. 142 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: And you'll be seeing President Trump at the G seven summit. 143 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: Do you understand what he is trying to do on Russia. 144 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 4: I'm clear in my own mind that President Trump wants 145 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 4: to bring that an end to the conflict. I have 146 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 4: no doubt about that, and we are moving closer. I 147 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 4: hope to some sort of ceasefire, some sort of deal Ukraine. 148 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 4: President Zelenski has been absolutely clear that he wants that 149 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 4: unconditional ceasefire. Putin, in my view, is dragging his heels, 150 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 4: which is why I think it is important for us, 151 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 4: together with others, to say it will be consequences if 152 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 4: Russia doesn't come forward to an unconditional cease fire. 153 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: And it seemed that you had it, did seem that 154 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: you had you you thought you had persuaded President Trump 155 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: on that when you went to Kiev, when you and 156 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: the other European leaders called in, you said, working with 157 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: President Trump, we're going to ramp up sanctions, and then 158 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: nothing came of it. President Trump talked tough for a 159 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: while about Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is he 160 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: going to pressure mister Putin? 161 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 4: Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and 162 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 4: we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US as 163 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 4: would expect with a trusted ally in this The path 164 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 4: to peace is rarely straightforward in any conflict. But I 165 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 4: do believe that that is what President Trump wants. That 166 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 4: is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is a 167 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 4: conflict of war that's been waged on them by the addressor, 168 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 4: which is Russia, and so we are doing everything to 169 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: bring about that outcome. But ASD say, the path from 170 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 4: conflict to peace is rarely straightforward. But I'm absolutely determined 171 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 4: that the UK will play a leading part, and I'm 172 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 4: very pleased that the UK has seemed to be able 173 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 4: to play that leading part in resolving the conflict. And 174 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 4: I remind myself always that not only is this about 175 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 4: the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is, but 176 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 4: it is also about our values in Europe, and it's 177 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: also about the direct impact it has back here at 178 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 4: home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy or 179 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 4: the cost of living, this communities, individuals in the UK 180 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 4: have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and therefore 181 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 4: we need to redouble our efforts to bring about a 182 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 4: lasting piece, on a temporary piece, a lasting piece. 183 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump 184 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind 185 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: of measure that might pressure put In to come. 186 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 5: To the negotiating table. 187 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 4: He said on a number of occasions that's what he 188 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 4: will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him. 189 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: He also say he did in the war in twenty 190 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: four hours. 191 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 4: Well, as I say, the path, if you look at 192 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 4: any conflict historically, the path to piece has never been straightforward. 193 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 4: But the determination is there, the intent is there, and 194 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 4: I do believe we're making progress, but it must be 195 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 4: a lasting piece. 196 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: You have led on this idea of the Coalition of 197 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: the Willing and a reassurance force for post war Ukraine. 198 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: Have you got a commitment from the US that it 199 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: would provide air cover for that future force to deter 200 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: Russia from attacking Ukraine in the future. 201 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 4: Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back, 202 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 4: and I've always been clear that there must be a 203 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 4: US element to this. But on the other hand, I 204 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 4: do think that Europe needs to step up in its 205 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 4: own right, in its own collective security and self defense. 206 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 4: And that's why, along with President Macron, we have led, 207 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 4: as it were, on the Coalition of the Willing, which 208 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 4: is to go, if you like, at the pace of 209 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 4: those that want to go furthest rather than at the 210 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 4: pace of those who are the most cautious, and to 211 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 4: start some of the planning that is going to be needed. 212 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 4: Then the further we get into the planning of what's 213 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 4: actually going to be needed in the air, in the sea, 214 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 4: and possibly on land, the more convinced I am. This 215 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 4: is the military planning that is planning needs to go 216 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 4: on now, it's planning that can't go on after the event, 217 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 4: so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously, there's a 218 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 4: lot of moving parts, there's a lot of questions that 219 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 4: aren't answered yet, but the military planning is getting to 220 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 4: quite an advanced stage. 221 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 5: Now. 222 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: Having your back, as President Trump has said, is not 223 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: the same as saying I will provide US air cover. 224 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit 225 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: to air cover for a post warforce. 226 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 4: Well, look, I'm not going to get into the private 227 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 4: discussions that we are having, but what I would say 228 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 4: is this that there are no two countries that act 229 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 4: as closely together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing 230 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 4: as the US and the UK, and that aspect of 231 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 4: our relationship is as strong today as it's ever been. 232 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: And my commitment to it is their. President Trump's commitment 233 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 3: to it is there. 234 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 4: We've discussed it between ourselves, so that is an unshakable 235 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 4: link between our countries. 236 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you 237 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: to And would you be prepared to put US to 238 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: put British troops on the ground as part of a 239 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: post war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air 240 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: cover to protect them. 241 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 4: Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection. 242 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 4: I have said we would be willing to put our 243 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 4: troops on the ground, but there has to be that 244 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 4: US backstop if you like. 245 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 5: So if it's not there, what happens to the worst 246 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 5: or force. 247 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 4: We are discussing this, but I have no reason to 248 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 4: believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together 249 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 4: as we've done historically for many, many years, as we 250 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 4: are doing every single day of the week. Our teams 251 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 4: are in constant touch with each other. As I say, 252 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 4: we must never lose sight of the fact that the 253 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 4: US and the UK are as close as any two 254 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 4: countries on defense, security and the intelligence that we share 255 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 4: with each other. 256 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: After the break the latest on trade talks between the 257 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: United States and the U United Kingdom, and the UK 258 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 2: Prime Minister looks ahead to a pivotal NATO summit later 259 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: this month. 260 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: There's another live bilateral issue which is the state of 261 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement it. 262 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: And the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks, which 263 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: would take us to next Wednesday. 264 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 5: So will it be implemented in that timeframe. 265 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 4: We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very 266 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 4: pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge 267 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 4: relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly 268 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 4: JLR workers that I went to see before we started 269 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 4: the negotiations. I went to see immediately after negotiations, and 270 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 4: so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created by 271 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 4: this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but we're 272 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 4: at the end of that process and I hope that 273 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 4: we can complete it pretty soon. 274 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: Now is that the same as within the two weeks 275 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: by next Wednesday? 276 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon. 277 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 4: I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making 278 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 4: good progress. There's nothing unexpected in the implementation and so 279 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 4: we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles. 280 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,479 Speaker 5: Why isn't it done yet. 281 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 4: Because there are both sides agreed what they would do 282 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 4: in order to implement, and so we're working through what 283 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 4: we the UK have to do what the US is 284 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 4: going to do so we can implement it. 285 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 3: That was as we're envisaged. 286 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: Not long after the G seven someone, you'll have the 287 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: NATO summit coming up, and there there is a very 288 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: specific new ask, which is that the US administration says 289 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: is NATO itself says is to spend five percent of 290 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: GDP on defense, understood to be by the year twenty 291 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: thirty two, three and a half percent on core defense spending. 292 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 5: Will you be committing to that? 293 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 4: Well, let me go through what we've already committed to, 294 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 4: which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being 295 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 4: spent on defense by twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. I 296 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: think that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to, 297 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 4: and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since 298 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 4: the Cold War. With an ambition then to go to 299 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 4: three percent in the next Parliament set that all out 300 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 4: alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I accept the proposition I've 301 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 4: advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO. Our Strategic 302 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 4: Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all 303 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 4: European countries need to step up. There's been a sort 304 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 4: of criticism that Europe hasn't carried its fair share of 305 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 4: the burden. 306 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 3: I think that's right. 307 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 4: So I've said to European allies we need to do 308 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 4: more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise 309 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 4: wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a 310 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 4: matter of some negotiation. 311 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: What I'm really clear about is. 312 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 4: That NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence for 313 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 4: eighty plus years. It is the most important successful military 314 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 4: alliance that's ever been and I think it's important for 315 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 4: that summit in just over a week's time to be 316 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 4: a real show of unity and to show our responsibility 317 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 4: not just to reflect on the last eighty years of NATO, 318 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 4: but to play our part in ensuring that we continue 319 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 4: peace in Europe. 320 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: And that's all NATO. 321 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: And that's the broad picture, But there is now this 322 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: very specific lass and your current commitment, as your current ambition, 323 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: is for three percent of GDP spent on defense by 324 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: the year twenty thirty four in the next parliament. So 325 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: could it be your ambition by the time of this 326 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: summit to raise that to three and a half percent, 327 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: because if you don't, you can't really claim to be 328 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: the leading European nation in NATO. 329 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 4: Well, I had Mark rot of the Sexuary General of 330 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 4: NATO here in this room on Monday to discuss how 331 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 4: together we would go into this summit. 332 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 3: And there's still. 333 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 4: Discussions going on as to price precisely what the wording 334 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 4: of what the commitment will be. But I mean, he 335 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 4: was very clear to me that he welcomed our uplift 336 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 4: to two point five percent. It was very pleased that 337 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 4: we had done that. It was very pleased with a 338 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 4: strategic defense, it's all good. 339 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 5: It's just a long way from what you want. And 340 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 5: the US says everyone's going to agree to this within weeks. 341 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 5: Forget week, We're going to be a very difficult summit. 342 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 4: To NATO, not just in our troops but also our 343 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 4: nuclear commitment to NATO. Were the only country that commits 344 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 4: our nuclear capability to NATO, and so I think he 345 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 4: would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a huge 346 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 4: contribution to NATO and I am absolutely determined that that 347 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 4: summit in just over a week will be a huge 348 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 4: success and an opportunity to show the strength together that 349 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 4: we have as NATO allies, but also to send a 350 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 4: very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally important 351 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 4: in what is a more unstable world than I think 352 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 4: we've seen for many, many years. 353 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that 354 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: you've just set out for national renewal, a new phase 355 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: of your government. There are some concerns that the growth 356 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: picture is not necessarily going to with the forecast going 357 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: to support your spending plans. And there is a group 358 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: of people that Bloomberg have looked into company filings and 359 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: they've seen the thousands of company directors have left the 360 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: country relocating out of the UK in the last year. 361 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: Is this a group of people that you can really 362 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: afford to use? Don't you need to have those people 363 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: here to look at the opportunities for investment? Might you 364 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: consider an investor visa? 365 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 4: Well, let me put this in the context because obviously, 366 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 4: and I won't go over this at great detail, but 367 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 4: we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything 368 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 4: was broken, the economy, public services. 369 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 5: You name it, which is why you raised we had to. 370 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 4: Take difficult but right decisions in the budget, and that, 371 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 4: if you like, was year one of this labor government, 372 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 4: which was clear up the mess, take the difficult but 373 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 4: necessary decisions. We're now very clearly moving into sort of 374 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 4: phase two, which is what the spending review ushers in, 375 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 4: which is being clear, what's the benefit from this, what's 376 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 4: the yield? 377 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 3: Where are you putting your money? And I'm really proud. 378 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 4: That we're rolling out a program of real labor values 379 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 4: in terms of investment, whether that's things like sigh as well. 380 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: So might investor be part of it, It's just is 381 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: it something you're considering. 382 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 4: I want more investors to come into the country, I 383 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 4: want top talent to come into the country. But I 384 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 4: would just push back a little because we've had record 385 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 4: investment into the UK since the last election. We've just 386 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 4: had London Tech Week where we had some of the 387 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 4: most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing 388 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 4: the praises of the UK and why now is the 389 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 4: right time to invest in the UK. 390 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: He's also lost about a quarter of a million jobs 391 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: since the autumn, so it's not all as rosy. 392 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 4: As we've actually, I mean, five hundred thousand more people 393 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 4: are in work than at the day to the last election, 394 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 4: and the. 395 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: Actually since you raise taxes in the autumn. This is 396 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a million. 397 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 5: Jobs have been lost. 398 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 4: If he looked at the number of people in work, 399 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 4: it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If 400 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 4: you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review, 401 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 4: there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size well that 402 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 4: we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs. And 403 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 4: my job is to make sure that good and well paid, 404 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 4: secure jobs are there and to attract that investment and 405 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 4: for international investment. I do think this is a really 406 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 4: important point, and Bloomberg will understand. 407 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 3: This almost beends on anyone. 408 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 4: Those global investors have a choice as to which country 409 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 4: they put their money in. They chose not to put 410 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 4: their money into the UK for many years before the election. 411 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 4: Now we've had record inward investment. That is because they've 412 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 4: got confidence in what we're doing. They're putting their money in, 413 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 4: and that to me speaks volumes. 414 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: Final thought, is President Trump coming Intomber for his state visit? 415 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will organize 416 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 4: the dates. 417 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 3: But President Trump will be coming for his state visit and. 418 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 5: In the autumn, and that is really good. 419 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 3: Well, the Palace will do it. 420 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 5: But is it this here? 421 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: Well, I hope. 422 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 4: So yes, but as I said, i'll leave it. I'd 423 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 4: want to take over the job of the Palace. It's 424 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 4: their job to set out exactly the dates of the invitation. 425 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 4: But I'm really pleased that we will be able to 426 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 4: showcase the close relationship we have between the UK and 427 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 4: the US. That's historically a close relationship, and this will 428 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 4: be a historic second visit for President Trump and we're 429 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 4: all looking forward to welcoming him here. 430 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 5: Prime Minister, thank you very much, Thank you, thank you. 431 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerre. 432 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: This conversation was part of the Bloomberg Weekend Interview. We're 433 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 2: host Michelle Hussein speaks to influential voices in politics, business 434 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 2: and culture from around the globe. You can find an 435 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 2: annotated transcript of this Starmer interview, as well as an 436 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 2: archive of past conversations with folks like Elon Musk and 437 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: Succession creator Jesse Armstrong at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Weekend, 438 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: or in the Bloomberg app Our special Thanks to Jessica Beck. 439 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and have a great weekend.