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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan in death Investigation.

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Speaker 2: I've been there to try to make sense at many

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Speaker 2: scenes about what the catalyst was that started the wheels

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Speaker 2: in motion. When you think about bodies being torn to

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Speaker 2: ribbons and you only have a remnant left behind. Many

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Speaker 2: times sometimes bodies are intact, but many times we show

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Speaker 2: up at scenes and all you're left with this evidence

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Speaker 2: of horror. Today we're going to talk about a gentleman

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Speaker 2: who was previously married to a lady by the name

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Speaker 2: of Devin Michaels. To make matter is even more interesting,

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Speaker 2: this woman is in now married to this gentleman's son,

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Speaker 2: this gentleman Jonathan Willett, and he was literally butchered. I'm

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Speaker 2: Joseph god Morgan and this is Bodybags. So you're a

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Speaker 2: young cop. You walk into a room and probably the

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Speaker 2: first thing that you're expecting to see if you've been

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Speaker 2: called out on a death, is a dead body. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: your senses are hit with the odor of decomposition. Many

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Speaker 2: times you smell things before you see them. This does happen,

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Speaker 2: but in today's case, you're hit with a smell that

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Speaker 2: is not decompositional, but you're actually hit with a very

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Speaker 2: strong chemical odor. And when you do finally see the body,

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Speaker 2: you see smoke what they define or call smoke emanating

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Speaker 2: from these remains. It's a real conundrum.

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Speaker 3: As a parent, I can't imagine any worse than finding

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Speaker 3: your child dead. But what will its mother found was

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Speaker 3: his body, there's no head. We don't know where the

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Speaker 3: head is. Even as we do this show today, we

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Speaker 3: still don't know. That's why we're doing the show body

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Speaker 3: Bags today. On Wonderful Devin Michaels and the relationship she

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Speaker 3: had with her husband and her baby daddy husband and

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Speaker 3: her husband actually was the baby of the daddy that

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Speaker 3: she's married. Well you get the picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, It's almost like you need a lineup card or

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Speaker 2: maybe a playbill to keep up. It's when I first

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Speaker 2: came across this case, I was dumbfounded because I couldn't

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Speaker 2: make sense of what I think sociologists like to refer

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Speaker 2: to as the familial dynamic. Don't you love that academic turn.

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Speaker 2: I hope that you're impressed and you think about this

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Speaker 2: dynamic that was going on in this household, and it's

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Speaker 2: to say that it is strange would be an understatement.

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Speaker 2: But what we do know as you mentioned this poor

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Speaker 2: gentleman's mother, and no, I can't frame this in any

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Speaker 2: other way. I can't make sense of it. When she

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Speaker 2: comes into the bedroom there before her lais only who

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Speaker 2: she can assume is her son, wrapped in a blanket.

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Speaker 2: And then you try to rouse him out of bed.

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Speaker 2: You're shake him, perhaps as maybe your mama shook you,

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Speaker 2: my mama shook me. Wake up, get ready. He's forty

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Speaker 2: six years old at this point, and there she is

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Speaker 2: attempting to wake him up. But there's something odd about

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Speaker 2: the shape of his body. Because even if you have

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Speaker 2: a body that is covered or obscured by some kind

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Speaker 2: of covering, there's still enough within us where we recognize

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Speaker 2: form and function that you can automatically see. I think

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Speaker 2: if you're not looking through the mother's eyes, there's something

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Speaker 2: wrong here. And what would be wrong is that this

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Speaker 2: gentleman is actually absent head. It's not going to look right, No,

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Speaker 2: it's not. It will be certainly bizarre to try to

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Speaker 2: pick up on this and try to understand it. And

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Speaker 2: how do you make sense of this as a mom.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought that up, because the mom is

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Speaker 3: going to call nine one one and she's going to

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Speaker 3: have to explain the dynamic here. Devin Michael's forty five

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Speaker 3: year old suspect, female Jonathan Willett is forty six. He

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Speaker 3: is the victim. He is the headless man now in

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Speaker 3: the bed and by the way, chemical smell and fumes

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Speaker 3: seen coming from his body. His mom, Mister Willett's mother

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Speaker 3: has to explain to nine to one one what she

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Speaker 3: has just seen. And she doesn't really know because again

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Speaker 3: there is no head. She doesn't know what she's actually seen.

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Speaker 3: She just know that it's not good. Devin Michaels is

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Speaker 3: married to Jonathan Willett, the victim, married to his adult son,

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Speaker 3: and all we hear about from this standpoint is that

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Speaker 3: it was a marriage of convenience to help with some

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Speaker 3: medical issues that Devin Michaels has. I don't know what

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Speaker 3: these medical issues are, but that was the reason given

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Speaker 3: for why even though she has been in a married

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Speaker 3: relationship with Jonathan Willett, the victim, she married the victim's son.

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Speaker 3: Jonathan Willett and Devin Michaels have two children together. Jonathan

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Speaker 3: Willett's mother is dealing with her son, her grandson, and

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Speaker 3: her grandson is married to her son's wife, and there

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Speaker 3: are two children in here that are either children, grandchildren,

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Speaker 3: great grandchildren, or aunt uncle cousins. I'm not sure that's

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Speaker 3: what we've got going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and let me ask one more thing. And I

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Speaker 2: know that you're not necessarily going to have to answer

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Speaker 2: to this, but the authorities are saying that she was

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Speaker 2: married to him, or that she's married to the son,

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Speaker 2: but yet she is in a marriage like relationship with

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Speaker 2: the victim. So on top of this, are all three

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Speaker 2: parties married have a matrimonial or relationship in the sense

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Speaker 2: of law, And is she a bigamist? I'm thinking about

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Speaker 2: why would she have perpetrated such a horrific crime that

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Speaker 2: the authorities at this point in time are pointing at

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Speaker 2: her as the primary culprit here? And you think about

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Speaker 2: this dynamic that's going on, being involved with the husband's

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Speaker 2: son in a matrimonial relationship. Was it just too much

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Speaker 2: to take? And you think about, well, it's for the

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Speaker 2: convenience of medical condition. Well, yeah, I mean maybe she

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Speaker 2: was under insured or had no insurance in vis a

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Speaker 2: vis the victim. She had insurance being able to cover

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Speaker 2: whatever this issue was, But you got it, admit, just

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Speaker 2: give me this. There are a myriad of other rationales

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Speaker 2: that could come into play here that could be the

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Speaker 2: motivating factor. And there's some kind of sinister stuff that

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Speaker 2: she's told the police was the rationale for her taking

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Speaker 2: his life. I believe over the course of my career,

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Speaker 2: particularly in academia, I've had students that have taken my

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Speaker 2: medical legal death investigation course and they have asked me,

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Speaker 2: have I ever seen anything supernatural happen? And I tell

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Speaker 2: them no, and it's always a shock to them. I

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Speaker 2: think that they think that just because I'm around the dead,

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Speaker 2: have been around the dead all of my adult life,

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Speaker 2: that I'm somehow haunted, And no, I'm more haunted by

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Speaker 2: the living than I ever have been by the dead.

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Speaker 2: I can assure you of that.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned kind of sitting up with the dead, I

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Speaker 3: will tell you very quickly. I worked for a funeral

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Speaker 3: home when I was in my first years of RadioU.

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Speaker 3: I didn't make enough money, so I actually drove caskets

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Speaker 3: around and stuff like that to make extra money so

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Speaker 3: I could eat, and one night I had to set

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Speaker 3: up with the dead. Because you can't leave a body

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Speaker 3: and if you're home that is not guarded there has

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Speaker 3: to be somebody in there in case there's a fire.

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Speaker 3: You got the body's the only thing that matters. Nothing else,

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Speaker 3: burner all down. I didn't know that, but I was

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Speaker 3: in there and they had a visitation, had a lot

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Speaker 3: of people show up in the body that was in

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Speaker 3: the casket. Well, his hair got a little mussed up,

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Speaker 3: and they were like, can you fix that for tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: I got an early visitation with the family, just a family,

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Speaker 3: very private, very early. Would you take care of this day? Well,

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Speaker 3: the dude was wearing a pinstripe suit. Joe, you know

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Speaker 3: what that means, The optical illusion. You find it on

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Speaker 3: television sets all the time when people wear certain things

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Speaker 3: and your eyes play tricks on you. You look at a

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Speaker 3: dead body wearing a pinstripe suit, and that body will

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Speaker 3: go the breathing begins, They will breathe. I saw it

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Speaker 3: with my own two eyes. I know I saw it.

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Speaker 3: And back then we didn't have cell phones. I had

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Speaker 3: a corded phone. It had a rotary dial. I took

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Speaker 3: that court as far as I could to get away

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Speaker 3: from that body. I'm hanging out the front door. I'm

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Speaker 3: calling the funeral home director. Dude, you got to get

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Speaker 3: I'm out, I'm leaving. And he did everything he could

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Speaker 3: to calm me down. He explained, I saw it, he's breathing. Man,

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Speaker 3: you got a live guy in the box.

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Speaker 2: But it didn't happen though, and that's not the reality.

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Speaker 2: And look, if that man could have sat up at

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Speaker 2: that point in time, listen, first off, you wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: talking to me. You'd be a very wealthy man. This

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Speaker 2: is what I do know. I've never had the dead

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Speaker 2: speak to me. And the one thing I can confirm

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Speaker 2: to you scientifically is that the dead cannot make excuses,

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Speaker 2: they cannot offer up solutions, they cannot bear testimony on

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Speaker 2: their behalf.

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Speaker 3: Now the police show up, Joe and there because Mom

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Speaker 3: calls and we got a mess on our hands and

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Speaker 3: the police show up. Do they make the call immediately?

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Speaker 3: We know this, We don't have to worry about this

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Speaker 3: crime scene and we don't want anybody else here. The

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Speaker 3: dead body is here with no head, so we know

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Speaker 3: we got to deal with this. This is the elephant

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Speaker 3: in the room. Did they call you immediately and say

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Speaker 3: can you need to get over here?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: What did the police do? First things? When you find

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Speaker 3: a body with no head? And you've got suspects.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in a case like this, even if the e

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Speaker 2: if we don't make immediate entry. In most jurisdictions that

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Speaker 2: I worked in, I had a very good rapport with

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Speaker 2: the police department. I was the one constant in the universe.

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Speaker 2: There would be investigators that would come and go and

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Speaker 2: would move on to new jobs, but I would always

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Speaker 2: be there. It was my job. That's what I had

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Speaker 2: a lot of young investigators for the police that would say, hey,

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Speaker 2: what do I do now? And so I would be

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Speaker 2: there on the shoulder the older guys. Sometimes they would wait,

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Speaker 2: hold me back, and then I would come in and

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Speaker 2: do my thing. But in a case like this, particularly

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Speaker 2: when you are absent a significant element of the body

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Speaker 2: ahead in this case, I would be there, ready to

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Speaker 2: rock and roll and ready to look for any evidence

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Speaker 2: that I could to try to track down the head.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you another thing that they would probably

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Speaker 2: do in a case like this, and I don't know

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Speaker 2: that they did. This was actually it's adjacent to Vegas.

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Speaker 2: It's actually in Henderson. For people that are curious, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if the Henderson police actually called out a dog,

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Speaker 2: but a dog would give you an idea to be

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Speaker 2: able to track this down if they have a sample

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Speaker 2: of blood, which they would in this particular case. Heads

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Speaker 2: are very bloody. They're very bloody things because they are

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Speaker 2: This is what's so fascinating. We don't know a lot

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Speaker 2: about this at this point. The head is the most

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Speaker 2: vascular area of the human body, so you have the

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Speaker 2: most blood flow that is going to the head because

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Speaker 2: the brain requires so much. So even in death or

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Speaker 2: even in a decapitation, there will be blood draining, gravitational

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Speaker 2: draining out of that opening in the neck. You've got

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Speaker 2: a head that is severed away from the body. I

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Speaker 2: cannot imagine under any circumstances that if his head was

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Speaker 2: removed at that site that you would not at least

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Speaker 2: have passive droplets of dynamic blood flow that are like

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Speaker 2: dripping on the floor everywhere you go unless you have

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Speaker 2: a catch basin. Did this person think about that? And

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Speaker 2: I know it's horrible for me as a forensics guy

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Speaker 2: if I have no blood there. There's a couple of

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Speaker 2: things that I'm considering if I have a body that

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Speaker 2: has been decapitated, I want to know, First off, was

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Speaker 2: this individual decapitated, There was the blood drained from their

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Speaker 2: body prior to arrival at this location where they're deposited,

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Speaker 2: and if they were killed there, where the heck is

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Speaker 2: the blood, because I would expect there to be copious

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Speaker 2: amounts of blood, not just in the area where the

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Speaker 2: head was removed, saying that it's removed on a bed,

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Speaker 2: the mattress, in the bed, clothes and everything would be

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Speaker 2: super saturated. But you would have dave betrayal of blood

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Speaker 2: leading away. Even if you try to wrap it in towels,

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Speaker 2: you would still have that happen. And of course I

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Speaker 2: would look for any drains that were nearby, anything a sink,

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Speaker 2: an outdoor spicott or a drain that leads down the

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Speaker 2: ground in the bathroom, looking at the bathroom sink, the toilet,

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Speaker 2: the tub, just to see if people are trying to

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Speaker 2: clean up. It's a creepy kind of thing as an

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Speaker 2: investent skater, when you kind of step back and you

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Speaker 2: think about it, you think, I've got to put myself

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Speaker 2: into the mindset of someone that has just killed and

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Speaker 2: decapitated someone, and you let that sink in. And now

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Speaker 2: that you know I'm older and I talk to my students,

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Speaker 2: you know I'll have my students and I'll talk to

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Speaker 2: them about a case like this, and they'll sit back

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Speaker 2: and their eyes kind of open up, you know, and

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Speaker 2: they're thinking, oh my god, I'm in the room with

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Speaker 2: a monster. But you know, for a moment, you have

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Speaker 2: to translate yourself into that environment. And as these investigators

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Speaker 2: begin to process the scene, that's one of the things

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Speaker 2: that they're thinking about.

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Speaker 3: To cut a head off the victim here, they're going

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Speaker 3: to have to already be dead. I would think you're

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Speaker 3: not going to be able to cut somebody's head off

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Speaker 3: if they're alive, right, unless it's a really I mean

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Speaker 3: like a guillotine. I'm not you know, I'm talking about it, just.

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Speaker 2: Right, a guillotine. And there are execution cases from antiquity

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Speaker 2: for a case like this where a body is in

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Speaker 2: fact decapitated, and there's any number of ways that decapitations

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Speaker 2: can can happen, certainly swords from antiquity, and there are

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Speaker 2: traumatic decapitations, and you see them, believe it or not,

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Speaker 2: with great frequency in motor vehicle accidents. It happens with

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Speaker 2: some frequency in those cases. But in this particular case,

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Speaker 2: you would have had to have had someone first off

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Speaker 2: that would have had the will to do this, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't take a lot of skill in order to

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Speaker 2: do it, but you do, as in this case, have

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Speaker 2: to have someone that is compliant. And when you're talking

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Speaker 2: about an alleged female perpetrator and a grown man, there's

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Speaker 2: no doubt in my mind that he was already to

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Speaker 2: seize when that head came off. Dave MC, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it is just the subject matter that you

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Speaker 2: and I talk about, or if it is a a

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Speaker 2: real thing, but it seems to me, and I think

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Speaker 2: I've said this on other episodes, and I will continue

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Speaker 2: to say it because it keeps slapping me. The reality

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Speaker 2: keeps slapping me in my face. It seems to me

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Speaker 2: that we are encountering more and more cases with either

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Speaker 2: decapitations or dismemberments. It seems like we've covered so many

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Speaker 2: of these things over the past few months. It's amazing

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Speaker 2: to me. It takes almost an iron will in order

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Speaker 2: to facilitate this, and it's almost like people are desensitized

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the case, if we are

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Speaker 3: desensitized and they're just more of them happening because of that.

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Speaker 3: I just remember when you and I were kids and

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Speaker 3: whenever somebody did something crazy, it was if it was

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Speaker 3: a teenager, it was because of TV, and then it

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Speaker 3: was Dungeons and Dragons, and then it was this in

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Speaker 3: video game and rock and roll. Yeah, oh, I forgot

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Speaker 3: about those guys. So I think there's always something, But

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Speaker 3: I don't know if it's where there is more happening

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Speaker 3: in terms of people being dismembered, or if we just

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Speaker 3: hear about it, because there is a twenty four hour

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Speaker 3: news cycle that has to be filled with information, and

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Speaker 3: crime is a big one. But I do think it's

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Speaker 3: worthy of some real statistical help from college professors that

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Speaker 3: could make students to a project. I'm not suggesting a

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Speaker 3: class project for your class, but I think you could

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Speaker 3: do some independent study where they go off on their

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Speaker 3: own and study and you if you need me, call

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Speaker 3: me at the house.

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Speaker 2: I got a cup of coffee. Yeah, light bulbs are

292
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Speaker 2: going off.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, I don't know if it's happening more, but

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Speaker 3: I do know this, Joe, I have been putting more

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Speaker 3: and more of these shows together, and as I have

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Speaker 3: said many times, if anything were going to happen to

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Speaker 3: a loved one of mine and the police came and

298
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Speaker 3: looked at books and videos and the shows that I do.

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Speaker 3: They probably won't even bother asking me any questions. They'll

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Speaker 3: just go cuff him back of the car. I don't

301
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Speaker 3: know about Devin Michaels and Jonathan Willett. I don't know

302
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Speaker 3: about their relationship, but I do know that somehow Someway,

303
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Speaker 3: his forty six year old body ended up without a head,

304
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Speaker 3: and she is arrested and charged with the crime of murder.

305
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Speaker 3: But my questions still comes back to what are they

306
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Speaker 3: actually seeing on the body. We've got it from the

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Speaker 3: police report. Henderson Police wrote that his head was severed

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Speaker 3: and was not located at the scene, which means there's

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Speaker 3: got to be some really serious pre planning that that

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Speaker 3: body and head were separated, and they're not seeing as

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Speaker 3: you mentioned in the last segment about blood everywhere. They

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Speaker 3: don't see a trail of blood leading to wherever this

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Speaker 3: head is, or.

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Speaker 2: At least they're not saying it at this point, Tom, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Or they're not seeing blood from the body coming in

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Speaker 3: the head being left out somewhere else. But beyond that,

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Speaker 3: the police are noting there was a chemical smell, a

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Speaker 3: chemical smell, and fumes could be seen coming from his body.

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Speaker 3: What are they talking about, Joe, Have you ever had

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Speaker 3: this happen to you know what this is?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Actually I have because cleaned a lot of morks

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Speaker 2: over the course of my career, and there are certain

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Speaker 2: chemical combinations that you do not want to be near.

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Speaker 2: I've actually commingled substances in the morgue where I had

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Speaker 2: to get out of the morgue and leave. A matter

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Speaker 2: of fact, I ran a forensic pathologist out of the

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Speaker 2: morgue one time when I was attempting to clean up

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Speaker 2: a big mess of blood that we had, and it

329
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Speaker 2: was quite noxious. But what they're saying, Dave, is that

330
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Speaker 2: there was a strong get this, There was a strong

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Speaker 2: smell ammonia and bleach. That combination of itself. Now hold

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Speaker 2: on to your hat. That is actually a combination that

333
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Speaker 2: can wind up producing chlorine gas, which is actually an

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Speaker 2: anti personnel gas that was used in World War One

335
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Speaker 2: and it's still used in the Middle East in certain places.

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Speaker 2: It irritates the eyes, it causes hemorrhagic reactions, and the

337
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Speaker 2: lungs when they are comingled like that in the right

338
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 2: order and the right amounts, it can really wind up

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Speaker 2: creating this lethal event. That's why when you are a

340
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Speaker 2: an investigator and you walk onto a scene, I always

341
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 2: keep in mind that someone has just died here, and

342
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,919
Speaker 2: they probably had more value on the person's life that

343
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Speaker 2: died than they would on mine. As an investigator coming in,

344
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Speaker 2: I always assume that every environment is deadly, and if

345
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Speaker 2: you walk into this environment, the first thing you should

346
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Speaker 2: do if you smell this, and they didn't just smell it.

347
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,959
Speaker 2: Dave the police described this as what appeared to be

348
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Speaker 2: smoke coming from the body. And one of the things

349
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 2: that happens when you get these commingled substances is that

350
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,199
Speaker 2: they begin to kind of bubble up. It's like a

351
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 2: bad chemistry experiment. It's going to ry. And they don't

352
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 2: really comment any further about this. This is the type

353
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Speaker 2: of thing that you would need to call the fire

354
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Speaker 2: department out there. This is dangerous stuff. And the police

355
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,920
Speaker 2: officers are walking into this environment. So not only are

356
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Speaker 2: they contending with a headless remain a mother who is grieving,

357
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 2: but they're also contending with the fact that there's some

358
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 2: kind of knock odor in the air. And listen, anybody

359
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: in the sound of my voice that's ever come in

360
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 2: contact with ammonia. You know, it's the same thing they

361
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 2: make smelling sauce out of to wake you up. There's

362
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 2: a reason it does. It's horrible, it's absolutely horrible, but

363
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 2: it's used in cleaning. You combine that with bleach, so

364
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 2: it begs a question. Why would a headless body, and

365
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 2: remember we were talking about blood earlier, Why would a

366
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Speaker 2: headless body being obscured by bedclothing? Why would it be

367
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: emanating smoke and this odor. When I think about this,

368
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,439
Speaker 2: I begin to think about was there an attempt to

369
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Speaker 2: clean up? That jumps to mine first, and what do

370
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Speaker 2: you associate with really getting things clean? Well, ammonia certainly

371
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 2: people think that bleach just makes everything disappear and vanish.

372
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Speaker 2: When you think about that, Okay, well they're starting to

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Speaker 2: put two and two together. Were there containers of bleach

374
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Speaker 2: and ammonia around there? Was there an attempt to clean up?

375
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Speaker 2: Had she been in this accused, had she been in

376
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Speaker 2: the room with a body long enough so that if

377
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: there was blood there, maybe there were scrub brushes as well,

378
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 2: or maybe there were rags, maybe there was a garbage

379
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: pail there, or just maybe every evidence of cleaning up

380
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,400
Speaker 2: left along with the head in the same back. Now

381
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: that in and of itself is quite the conundrum, because

382
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 2: all you have to do is drive down the road

383
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 2: you find age. A matter of fact, I think my

384
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 2: garbage bind is still sitting out by the road because

385
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: I didn't take it in and we just had trash

386
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: pick up. But think about that, if there's a garbage

387
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 2: bin sitting out by the road, you could tie the

388
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 2: thing off, drop in a garbage bin, and the garbage

389
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: guys are going to come by and pick it up,

390
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 2: and no one will be any the wiser. I don't

391
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: know that they will ever find this poor man's head,

392
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 2: and that's problematic for them because this is the thing.

393
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: She apparently admits day that, by virtue of some of

394
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: the things that he had said to her that had

395
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: kind of a sexual connotation, she took a stick and

396
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 2: hit him in the head. This accused is actually stating

397
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: that she did this in order to knock him out,

398
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: in order to I can't remember, in order to make

399
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 2: sure the children were okay, or that she was okay

400
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: or okay.

401
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 3: At first, I didn't do it. I don't know what

402
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 3: you're talking about. He was supposed to move in with me,

403
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: but he did and he's upstairs in his own bet,

404
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about. Then it was well,

405
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,360
Speaker 3: wait a minute, Yeah, I was in there with him,

406
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: and he did want me to perform a sex act.

407
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: I didn't want to do it, so I popped him

408
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 3: on the head. And then during the interviews, because they

409
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 3: are experts at this, is it possible, Devin, that you

410
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,159
Speaker 3: maybe just spitball in here. Maybe you hit him a

411
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 3: little harder than you thought. Maybe, I mean, is that possible.

412
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 3: The minute she says, oh, yeah, that's possible, she basically

413
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 3: admitted I killed him. But the thing is, Joe, we

414
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: still have a body with fumes, chemicals and no head.

415
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 3: We know one thing that mom who found the body

416
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 3: also can't find her meat cleaver. What is it like

417
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: for somebody who is not a doctor to cut through

418
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: bone muscle send you all the stuff in you. I'm

419
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 3: assuming that's where you're going to go.

420
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is where you're going to go. And

421
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: remember a meat cleaver, the configuration of it traditionally has

422
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 2: been made with a very heavy spine on it, and

423
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: the spine of the meat cleaver is meant to transfer

424
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: that energy from that weight of the spine down into

425
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: the fine blade, which is more narrow, and of course

426
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 2: the sharper the blade, the more effective it is. Meat Cleavers,

427
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: like axes, though they do have a leading sharp edge

428
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 2: on them, do not make clean cuts unless they are

429
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 2: honed to a surgical edge and you have sufficient strength.

430
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 2: You have to have energy in order to drive it

431
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 2: down onto the object that you're trying to split in two,

432
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: in this case with a neck, and she's going to

433
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 2: have to go through vertebral bodies. And it's easy for

434
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: somebody to say, oh, well, she would just go in

435
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: between the vertebral bodies. Really that's like that's like saying, Okay,

436
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to hit a one hundred mile per hour

437
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: fastball and I'm taking over the left field fence. I'm

438
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 2: going to pull it down the line. You might say

439
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: that you're going to do that, but you're not going

440
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: to do it. The idea that you could actually swing

441
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: a meat cleaver with sufficient energy to take a head

442
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,679
Speaker 2: off in one fail swoop or maybe even two is

443
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: complete fantasy. You're going to strike, you're going to misstrike,

444
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: and your strike multiple times. Even butchers, when you see

445
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: them butcher meat with a meat cleaver, they're striking that

446
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 2: multiple times. Now, if the late is sharp enough, they

447
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 2: can drive through the meat itself. But even butchers, even

448
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 2: butchers have bone sauce. There's a reason they do that.

449
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 2: So just because you swing, it doesn't mean that you're

450
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: going to hit the disc that actually separates the spinal

451
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: vertebral bodies. That's a it's not a one in a

452
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: million shot, but it's hard. Particularly because the back of

453
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: the neck is covered in soft tissue. You can't appreciate

454
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 2: the skeletal structure beneath the neck. You're just wildly swinging

455
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: at this point in time. So when you would examine

456
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: these injuries, the skin itself will have a very jagged

457
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: edge to it. More than likely the muscle just beneath

458
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 2: will certainly be ragged to a great degree. And also

459
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 2: the bone. Once let's say that just that that bone,

460
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: if she went between you have the cervical for tebral bodies.

461
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: So if you think about C one is what's referred

462
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: to as the Atlas, it's like the god Atlas holding

463
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 2: the earth up, that classic image that we've seen in

464
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 2: antiquity C one, C two, C three, C four, C five,

465
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: C six, And so you get down to like the

466
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 2: C four area C five that's kind of exposed. So

467
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: as you strike it, more than likely you're going to

468
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: have a strike that's not going to go all the

469
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 2: way through. What's it going to strike. Well, it's going

470
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: to strike tissue, bone, any kind of sinew, and it's

471
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: also going to strike the vertebral body and it will

472
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 2: leave a mark there. Now, the head, there's a high

473
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 2: probability that that head, even at this point, still has

474
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,959
Speaker 2: attached vertebral bodies to it, which could be examined by

475
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: a tool mark expert if they find it. What is

476
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: left behind will also have marks as well that we'll

477
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: have tool marks on them, and there will be multiple

478
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 2: strikes on that because every time this meat cleaver is

479
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 2: brought down, you essentially scratch that bone. You cut a

480
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 2: little channel that is actually if you look at it

481
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: on as long axis is actually V shaped all the

482
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 2: way down. It marries up with a blade and you'll

483
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: have these multiple V shaped strikes all the way across

484
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: the bone, and those can be married up to the

485
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 2: meat clean But the problem here is this the mother

486
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 2: is saying she's missing the meat clever. They don't have

487
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 2: that at the time of this recording. To marry those

488
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 2: two things up and compare them. What we do know

489
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: is that we have a body that is absent its head.

490
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: There's a high probability that there are tool marks on

491
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: what remains of the neck that could be married up.

492
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: We have what appears to be perhaps an attempted clean

493
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,239
Speaker 2: up and a crime scene. And at this point, at

494
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 2: this time of the recording, we have only an accused person.

495
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 2: I'm Josephcott Morgan and this is body backs