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Speaker 1: Hey, listeners. This episode is part of our new playlist

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Speaker 1: to help everybody get through these times we're living in.

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Speaker 1: It's our host faves playlist. Yeah, these are just some

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Speaker 1: of our personal favorites, ones that we had a particular

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Speaker 1: affinity for, and because these are stressful and trying times,

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Speaker 1: we tried to stick to the ones that weren't quite

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Speaker 1: as dour. So hopefully they'll give you a little lift,

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Speaker 1: Stay safe. Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class,

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome to the

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Speaker 1: podcast I'm calling from. I'm Tracy Wilson, and we left

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Speaker 1: you with a cliffhangers time around. We were talking about

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Speaker 1: the history of the home and Mansion in Disneyland and

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Speaker 1: how it came to be built and how that concept

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Speaker 1: went from just an idea in the early fifties to

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Speaker 1: becoming an actual thing that park visitors know about today,

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Speaker 1: because it really is quite a long and winding road

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Speaker 1: for that that right in particular. Uh, and so when

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Speaker 1: we left off, uh, really Crump and Yale Gracie were

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Speaker 1: two gentlemen that we're working on effects that we're going

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Speaker 1: to go into the Haunted Mansion, and they had done

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Speaker 1: this really amazing uh demonstration where they kind of made

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Speaker 1: a mock up of the whole attraction and how it

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Speaker 1: would work, and other imagineers and Walt and their stakeholders

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Speaker 1: in Disneyland got to walk through it and experience it.

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Speaker 1: They were all completely blown away by it. So amazing

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Speaker 1: UH was also very slow. Yeah, those amazing effects had

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Speaker 1: really wowed the whole crowd, but they also took a

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Speaker 1: way too long to play out, uh. And the show

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Speaker 1: was deemed inefficient at that point, So there was no

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Speaker 1: way they could move people through quickly enough to avoid

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Speaker 1: long lines and log jams. And there's a h term

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Speaker 1: that's often used for rides when they're talking about um

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Speaker 1: load and how quickly they can get things through that

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Speaker 1: they wanted them to be people eaters, like they had

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Speaker 1: to just be able to move people through really quickly. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so even if some of the elements of this

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Speaker 1: show had been omitted, the time it was going to

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Speaker 1: take to reset some of the effects for each new

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Speaker 1: group coming through on the tour was just still not

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Speaker 1: going to be workable. In addition to this whole timing issue,

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Speaker 1: Walt had kind of cool and on this idea of

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Speaker 1: the Haunted House being a walk through attraction. Sleeping Beauty's

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Speaker 1: Castle features a walk through story display that's been there

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Speaker 1: since the opening, and he had really never been too

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Speaker 1: happy with it. And then, to make matters worse, we

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Speaker 1: talked about this in the first episode. There had been

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Speaker 1: a debate over whether the exterior should look pristine or

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Speaker 1: just a shambles. UH. Walt wanted it to look christine

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Speaker 1: to match the rest of the park, and other designers

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Speaker 1: wanted it to look crumbling, like a crumbling old mansion

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Speaker 1: and a little rundown like a haunted house. Normally would

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Speaker 1: the kind of place you'd look at and go that

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Speaker 1: is haunted. Yeah, So that had been a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a problem. And back when Ken Anderson, who was

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Speaker 1: head of UH this project at the time, UH had

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Speaker 1: been talking to Walt about it, he just decided he

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Speaker 1: would move to focusing on the interior and they would

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Speaker 1: table this issue. But they had just stopped talking about

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Speaker 1: the outside of the extraction. There had never been an

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Speaker 1: agreement on how it was actually going to look, and

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Speaker 1: so that remained unresolved. So as the nineteen fifties came

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Speaker 1: to a close, so did plans for a Disneyland Haunted House.

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Speaker 1: And they basically put the whole thing on hold. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the Haunted House, uh, just to um review quickly,

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Speaker 1: had been part of the plan for Disneyland since Walt

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Speaker 1: first envisioned the whole park in so they had spent

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Speaker 1: almost a decade at this point working on things, and

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Speaker 1: then they just had to kind of say goodbye to

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Speaker 1: it for a bit. Yeah, and sometimes I get frustrated

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Speaker 1: when I am banging my head against something trying to

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Speaker 1: work on it for like an hour and a half,

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Speaker 1: and they have been banging their heads working on this

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Speaker 1: for like ten years. Yeah, I mean, not the whole team,

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Speaker 1: although they do go on for many more years. But

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Speaker 1: so the Haunted House project then languished until so it

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Speaker 1: was a couple of years, but what was still really

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Speaker 1: eager to expand the park, and the W E. D

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Speaker 1: Team or WED depending on what you prefer, which eventually

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Speaker 1: became Disney Imagineering, decided that they were going to once

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Speaker 1: again take on this troubled project. There was such a

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Speaker 1: strong desire to get this thing up and running that

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Speaker 1: they started passing out handbills in the park that very year,

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Speaker 1: announcing that in nineteen sixty three, two years down the road,

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Speaker 1: the Haunted Mansion, as it was now officially was being called,

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Speaker 1: would be open to guests and haunts. So a little

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Speaker 1: bit of let's light a fire under ourselves to get

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Speaker 1: this done, and also a little bit maybe putting some

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Speaker 1: of the cart before the horse. Yeah, I mean they

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Speaker 1: were throttled by the deadline, and so construction really did

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Speaker 1: kind of cata pulled forward. But even so it was

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Speaker 1: not quite at the pace that was hoped for. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And while the exterior of the Haunted Mansion was in

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Speaker 1: place pristine by the way, they went with Walt's pristine plan,

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Speaker 1: which is not really a surprise. UH. In nine three,

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Speaker 1: the exterior was completely done, but the interior was far

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Speaker 1: from finished. Walt asked Martins Sklar to come up with

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Speaker 1: copy for a real estate sign that would be inviting

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Speaker 1: ghosts to move into this home in Disneyland. And here's

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Speaker 1: the sign that appeared outside the empty building. Do you

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Speaker 1: want to read this? I bet you like it? Sure? Uh.

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Speaker 1: It reads notice all ghosts and restless spirits post lifetime

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Speaker 1: leases are now available in this Haunted Mansion. Don't be

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Speaker 1: left out in the sunshine. Enjoy active retirement in this

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Speaker 1: country club atmosphere for the fashionable address for famous ghosts,

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Speaker 1: ghosts trying to make a name for themselves, and ghosts

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Speaker 1: afraid to live by themselves. Leases include license to scare

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Speaker 1: the daylights out of guests visiting the Portrait Gallery, Museum

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Speaker 1: of the Supernatural, Graveyard, and other happy hunting grounds. For reservations,

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Speaker 1: send resume of past experience to Ghost Relations Department, Disneyland.

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Speaker 1: Please do not apply in person. I love that it's

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Speaker 1: so charming. So things were behind schedule at this point,

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Speaker 1: but they were progressing along. Guests were getting at least

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Speaker 1: a little sense of the flavor of the attraction because

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Speaker 1: the exterior was there, and so things were kind of

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Speaker 1: back on course. But then they were put on hold

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Speaker 1: again when Walt agreed to build four attractions for the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four to nineteen sixty five World's Fair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is an interesting one as a brief aside.

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Speaker 1: I have heard people say before when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: disney history, like you do, which I do. Uh, there's

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Speaker 1: often this misconception that the World's Fair actually came before

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Speaker 1: Disneyland opened, and that because some of the pieces that

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Speaker 1: won't work on for the World's Fair moved into Disneyland.

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Speaker 1: I think there's been this confusion about the timing of

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Speaker 1: when Disneyland happened, but in fact it was up and running.

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Speaker 1: They just paused on all current projects. Um, because those

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Speaker 1: four projects that Walt was doing for the World's Fair

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Speaker 1: ate up all of his time and all of the

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Speaker 1: time of the designers and artists that he routinely used,

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Speaker 1: because he had put them all to work on these

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Speaker 1: World's Fair projects. Uh So, every project for Disneyland that

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Speaker 1: was going on, including the Haunted Mansion, was just going

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Speaker 1: to have to wait until the attractions for the New

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Speaker 1: York displays were complete. Once the World's Fair projects were completed,

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Speaker 1: it was time to go back to the Haunted Mansion.

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Speaker 1: So in July nineteen sixty four, the team was reassembled

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Speaker 1: and it shuffled around a little bit. Ken Anderson had

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Speaker 1: gone back to work in the studios, but Rolly Crump

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Speaker 1: and Yale Gracie returned to the mansion, and Walt added

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Speaker 1: Mark Davis, Claude Coats, and x Attencio to the mix.

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Speaker 1: X is short for Xavier yes Um and Mark Davis,

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Speaker 1: who had worked on other Disneyland attractions, was tasked with

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Speaker 1: creating the inhabitants of the mansion, so the ghosts were

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Speaker 1: under him. Uh. Claude Coates put his skills as a

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Speaker 1: background artist to work uh designing the environments throughout the attraction,

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Speaker 1: and Extencio worked on the script. He had just done

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Speaker 1: one for Pirates of the Caribbean, so every member had

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Speaker 1: a role to play and assigned duties. But they were

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Speaker 1: starting with some kind of a clean slate story wise,

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Speaker 1: so initially they were all coming up with pitches for

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Speaker 1: different versions of the story that would run the Hide Mansion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, just for clarification, so really Crump and um

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Speaker 1: Yale Gracie were still working on effects, so we didn't

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Speaker 1: mention them, but they were all still working on it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there was another major element of this reboot of

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Speaker 1: the project and that they had decided to add an omnimover,

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Speaker 1: which is a car system rather than a walk through

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Speaker 1: as had originally been envisioned, so that they could keep

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Speaker 1: people moving through this attraction at the rate of thousands

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Speaker 1: of people per hour. So that's how the Doom Buggies

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Speaker 1: were formed, uh, which are the cars that go through

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Speaker 1: the Haunted Mansion. And one of the installations that Disney

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Speaker 1: and his team had done for the World's Fair was

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Speaker 1: this people mover that had been developed in conjunction with

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Speaker 1: the Ford Motor Company. Uh, and it was basically this

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Speaker 1: omni mover system and that had been a really great

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Speaker 1: success at the World's Fair. So it pretty quickly was

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Speaker 1: that concept was adopted over, not just into the Haunted Mansion,

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Speaker 1: but in several places in Disney. That's a common element

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Speaker 1: that you will see. And there is still a people

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Speaker 1: mover Magic Kingdom. Oh, it's in Magic Kingdom. You were right,

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Speaker 1: I was smashing them all in my head together. Well,

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Speaker 1: it seems it's in Tomorrowland, which is a little futuristic.

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Speaker 1: So people, it's easy to do that, to slip it

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Speaker 1: over to like Epcot's Future World. Yeah, it's a great

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Speaker 1: place to take a break, especially if it's hot out

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Speaker 1: to eat a nice craol ride, you get to go

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Speaker 1: inside some of the attractions while you just sit placidly.

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Speaker 1: Pretty much anything that involves sitting in a boat or

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Speaker 1: sitting in a little are yeah for like ten minutes,

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Speaker 1: about ten minutes. Awesome. Yes, Roly Crump's work when they

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Speaker 1: were working on concepts was way outside of what the

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Speaker 1: other men were working on, and even he admitted when

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Speaker 1: Watt was reviewing everybody's work, but he didn't know how

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Speaker 1: it fit into the attraction. He had designed things like

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Speaker 1: a melting candleman and as sentient walking chair. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: as they were all pitching these new versions of the

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Speaker 1: Haunted Mansion story and like how it would all go

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Speaker 1: together in terms of uh continuous thematic thread, Roly Crump

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Speaker 1: was just drawing these bizarre things that no one knew

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Speaker 1: what to do it. He was off in his own

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Speaker 1: world of weak, weird kind of. I mean he's still

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Speaker 1: alive today and he talks about it a lot. Uh,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, his style of art is really unique. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's now pretty much accepted that his some of his

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Speaker 1: crazy designs are what led to the famous Dama squallpaper

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Speaker 1: that's got the eyeballs in the Haunted Mansion. For a while,

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Speaker 1: it was a matter of debate over where that actually

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Speaker 1: came from. But if you look at some of his

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Speaker 1: early sketches and some of these works he was puzzling over,

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Speaker 1: it's very similar style to some of the pieces there. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so after having done this review where Roly Crump

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Speaker 1: is like, I don't know how it fits in It's

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Speaker 1: I'm just spit bawling weird things that I think are

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Speaker 1: you know, a little bit more new and interesting than

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Speaker 1: the standard like haunted Mansion fair Um, because you know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to do the same stuff that any

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Speaker 1: other haunted house would have. He wanted unique and interesting

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Speaker 1: and outside of what people had experienced before. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: apparently after not sleeping on it, because interviews with Crump,

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Speaker 1: he loves to tell this story, and he specifically always

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Speaker 1: mentions that when uh Waltz comes to see him the

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Speaker 1: next morning, that he was actually there before really Crump

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Speaker 1: got there, sitting in his chair. He was wearing the

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Speaker 1: same clothes as the day before, and said that he

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Speaker 1: couldn't get any sleep because he was thinking about what

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Speaker 1: to do with these designs. Walt had decided at that

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Speaker 1: point that Role's designs were going to be part of

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Speaker 1: what he the Museum of the Weird that would fall

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Speaker 1: at the end of the attraction as guest exited, and

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Speaker 1: that they could walk through at their own pace, so

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Speaker 1: kind of the way that people, um will know, now,

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Speaker 1: many rides in any Disney park will kind of shoot

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Speaker 1: you out into a gift shop. This was going to

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Speaker 1: shoot you out into this weird museum. Yeah, Roly Crump's

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Speaker 1: Museum of the Weird. Once Crump had been tasked with

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Speaker 1: making this museum show, he came up with all kinds

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Speaker 1: of odd and wonderful things for it. He pulled out

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Speaker 1: things he had worked on earlier in the attractions development

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Speaker 1: process and embellished their designs, and he envisioned lots of

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Speaker 1: things that will kind of ring familiar to those who've

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Speaker 1: been to the Haunted Mansion in Disneyland or disney World,

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Speaker 1: like a seance with floating furniture, marble busts whose gazes

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Speaker 1: followed the guests, portraits that morphed and changed before people's eyes.

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Speaker 1: There was even a haunted fortune teller's cart. So all

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Speaker 1: Disneyland projects, including the Haunted Mansion, went back on hold

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Speaker 1: again when it was time for the installations at the

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Speaker 1: World's Fair to be moved into their permanent residence in Disneyland,

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Speaker 1: and even after the task was completed, other projects were

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Speaker 1: then prioritized over the now basically beleaguered Haunted Mansion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's poor. Things been going on forever. They just were

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Speaker 1: trying to drag it to the finish line. Empty buildings

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Speaker 1: standing there with a sign in front of it. Nobody

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Speaker 1: can go in because there's not stuff in it yet.

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Speaker 1: People are like, wasn't this supposed to open three years ago? Yes? Uh,

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Speaker 1: and then things kind of take a really rough turn.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Pirates of the Caribbean is under construction

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Speaker 1: and almost complete. I think. Uh. Tomorrowland was being refurbished,

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Speaker 1: work on a second park in Florida was underway, and

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Speaker 1: Walt died, and to some people it seemed very sudden,

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Speaker 1: But I think it's one of those cases where he

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Speaker 1: never talked about being sick. Uh. He had undergone a

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Speaker 1: surgery in November of nineteen six to remove a tumor

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Speaker 1: in his lung that had been discovered when he went

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Speaker 1: in for treatment of a neck injury that he had

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Speaker 1: gotten from a sporting injury. Uh. And then just that

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Speaker 1: following month, December fifteenth of that same year, he died

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Speaker 1: of acute circulatory collapse that was associated with his lung cancer.

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Speaker 1: So this was really just emotionally devastating for the people

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Speaker 1: who worked for him, and losing Walt meant that there

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Speaker 1: was no longer a referee in the whole Haunted Mansion project,

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Speaker 1: which had always had a problem of just big personalities

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Speaker 1: clashing and disagreeing over how to do things. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: especially when it's set up in that way where you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of really brilliant people and you're like,

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Speaker 1: everybody pitched me a new version of this, and they

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Speaker 1: all want there's to be the one that goes forward.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it could be contentious. Um and with or

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Speaker 1: W E D leadership felt that the best solution at

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Speaker 1: this point was to put the team of Mark Davis

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Speaker 1: and Claude Coats in charge of the mansion. Uh. At

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Speaker 1: this point, the Haunt the Pirates of the Caribbean had

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Speaker 1: launched and they had a lot on it and it

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Speaker 1: had been very successful, so they seemed like the ideal team. However,

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Speaker 1: it turned out that after that big success, each of

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Speaker 1: the men kind of felt like he should be the

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Speaker 1: one that was in charge, with the other taking a

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Speaker 1: secondary management role. And you can imagine how well that

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Speaker 1: played out. Yeah. At this point, there had been a

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Speaker 1: decade of exasperating on again, off again production. Then there

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Speaker 1: was the grief over the loss of Disney. The headbutting

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Speaker 1: of the two leaders created this perfect storm for what

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Speaker 1: had become really one of the most contentious battles in

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Speaker 1: Disney imagineering history. It sounds silly, but the question of

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Speaker 1: whether the Haunted Mansion should be funny or scary caused

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Speaker 1: these huge arguments and a giant split in the development team. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Mark Davis really preferred more of the funny, character driven stuff,

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Speaker 1: whereas Coates, who was an environmental designer, wanted it to

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Speaker 1: be about spooky, scary erie. And because they are having

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Speaker 1: such a hard time co managing this project, it just

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Speaker 1: became this tug of war between these two concepts, and

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Speaker 1: designers were kind of lining up on either side of

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Speaker 1: the debate, and it really was just constant bickering over something.

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Speaker 1: It seems so small, but you can see how when

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Speaker 1: the stakes are high, because it is a thing that's

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Speaker 1: gone on forever, you have just lost your leader, you

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Speaker 1: are a little chuffed with your you know, success, and

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Speaker 1: feel like you're not maybe not getting as much credit

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Speaker 1: as you want. You could see how it could quickly

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Speaker 1: become this boiler pot, especially with a bunch of creative people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a creative people and married to a

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Speaker 1: creative person, and I know we can have some tempers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what I think is funny? What the jump

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Speaker 1: scare at the very beginning of the ride when all

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Speaker 1: the little kids completely lose their minds. This is because

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Speaker 1: I'm a terrible person. No, it's fun. It is fun.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's you're kind of enjoying everyone experiencing it.

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Speaker 1: And for some people it is the terror of it.

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Speaker 1: And it's that's part of like what makes any haunted

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Speaker 1: house like kind of fun is watching people freak out,

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Speaker 1: So I understand, So how do they get over this?

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Speaker 1: Holly Well, eventually, um Dick Irvine, Richard Irvine, who was

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Speaker 1: the w e D Vice president of design, he kind

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Speaker 1: of sided more with Mark Davis's vision and so at

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Speaker 1: least verbally, that was how it settled. But even so,

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Speaker 1: the attraction kind of is segmented, and if you think

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Speaker 1: about it when you go through it, it's almost like,

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Speaker 1: here's the Cloud Coats part, Here's the Mark Davis part.

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Speaker 1: Um Coats vision for the Moody and Creepy is really

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Speaker 1: more the first half of the ride, like when you're

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Speaker 1: going through all those environments and you're seeing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the creepy coffin with the guy talking out of it

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Speaker 1: and the long hallway trip, and there aren't a lot

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Speaker 1: of characters about. There are a lot of like ghosts

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Speaker 1: that you see you have like this about mood, like

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Speaker 1: the doors that are knocking themselves exactly. And then the

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Speaker 1: second half becomes more about the characters and the illusions

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Speaker 1: that Mark Davis was really a fan of. So that's

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Speaker 1: when you start seeing the ghosts in the ballroom and um,

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Speaker 1: you know Leo to Seance and all of those elements

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Speaker 1: and the Big Pepper's ghost illusion which is the ballroom. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's when all of that happened. So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the ambiance portion at the front, and then the

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Speaker 1: funner we're gonna set the stage and then we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a story. Yeah, and some people of you and said,

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Speaker 1: like as a this kind of set up a perfect

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Speaker 1: like act break to the story of the Haunted Mansion

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Speaker 1: that it did break out in that way that one

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Speaker 1: half favors one design philosophy and one half favors the other.

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Speaker 1: So this was only ex Atensio's second ride script. Before

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Speaker 1: he had written the script for Pirates, he had been

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Speaker 1: a storyboard artist who worked in the story department at

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Speaker 1: Disney Studios, and it failed to him to find some

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Speaker 1: kind of way to marry all these disparate elements that

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Speaker 1: had been thrown out by this team that was of

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Speaker 1: two different kind of incompatible bowl stylistic minds. Yea poor

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Speaker 1: guy just like makes sense of this. We've built it,

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Speaker 1: figure something out well, and you and I both edit

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Speaker 1: as some of our work here. Yeah, And we know

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Speaker 1: that feeling of when you get something that is like

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Speaker 1: somebody sent you their notes salad and you're like, how

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Speaker 1: do I make this note salad into a thing one

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Speaker 1: thing that's not note salad. Now picture two note salads

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Speaker 1: and they argue with each and you have to find

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Speaker 1: a way to make peace. And if you've ever seen

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Speaker 1: interviews with Extensio, I have to say I can see

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Speaker 1: where he was the perfect person for this job because

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Speaker 1: he has a very um, calm demeanor. He seems very

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Speaker 1: you know, sweet and earnest, uh, but also extremely smart.

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Speaker 1: And so you can see where and and he'll talk

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Speaker 1: about often how you know, Walt Disney one of his

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Speaker 1: greatest um, what Extencio feels is one of Disney's greatest

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Speaker 1: triumphs was that he could see what people were capable of,

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Speaker 1: even if they had never done it and didn't know

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Speaker 1: they could. Uh. And so that's kind of how he

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Speaker 1: became a scriptwriter on shows. Disney just said, I think

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Speaker 1: you're the guy to do this, and he's like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to do this, You'll be fine, and

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Speaker 1: he was. Uh. And so in the end he drew

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Speaker 1: inspiration from that real estate signed copy that Marty Sclar

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Speaker 1: had written, and so that's how he wove the story

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Speaker 1: of the nine happy Haunts throughout the Haunted Mansion that

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Speaker 1: are ready to recruit number one thousand and it could

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Speaker 1: be you. So all the way from the stretching portrait

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Speaker 1: room to the hitchhiking ghosts, it's all about, you know,

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Speaker 1: these many different spirits that have made their home in

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Speaker 1: the Haunted Mansion and how they would love to invite

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Speaker 1: another member, which I think it's kind of fabulous and

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00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: an ingenious solution to this problem. Well, and it wound

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Speaker 1: up being a really memorable one. Yeah. I've been to

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Speaker 1: Disney twice in my life, once when I was five

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Speaker 1: and once when I was in my late thirties. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And from that five year old to me, you watch

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Speaker 1: me freak out and um, one of the because you

385
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Speaker 1: know you don't remember giant piles of stuff when you

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Speaker 1: were five. Yeah, it's usually impression kind of piecemeal. And

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Speaker 1: one of the few absolutely clear memories I have of

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Speaker 1: Disney from the trip when I was five is the

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Speaker 1: hitchhiking ghosts and the Haunted Mansion. Yes, they're very lovable.

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Speaker 1: I think I was quite concerned that one of them

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Speaker 1: actually was coming home with me. I'm always quite sad

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Speaker 1: that they're not in the car when I leave, like

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Speaker 1: Phineas come on in the car. So at long last.

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Speaker 1: On August nine, nineteen sixty nine, more than eighteen years

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Speaker 1: after the project had started, and six years after the

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Speaker 1: empty house that appeared on in a corner of Disneyland,

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Speaker 1: finally the Haunted Mansion opened its doors. Yeah, if you

398
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Speaker 1: ever want perspective on a work project, just remember like

399
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: Golf was doing his designs, his first sketches in any one.

400
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: I also want to gripe away less about like video

401
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 1: games that get perpetually delayed or maybe never happen. Usually

402
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: that does not go on for eighteen years. Yeah, that's

403
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: it's a long time. And I can only and I

404
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Speaker 1: think that also led to kind of some of the

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Speaker 1: I mean, we we talked about it tying in, but

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Speaker 1: I can only imagine the fever pitch of potential frustration

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Speaker 1: and just taught nerves by the end of it. While

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Speaker 1: they're having all those arguments about the style of it,

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Speaker 1: and they've just been on this project for some of

410
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Speaker 1: them a decade or more, just be it. They just

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Speaker 1: probably want it done and they want to go home

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Speaker 1: and have a life. That has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the Honted Mansion. But it was immensely successful from day one.

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Speaker 1: There are photographs from day one where you can just

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Speaker 1: see the crowd. Just the line goes on forever. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And a week later, the Haunted Mansion set a single

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Speaker 1: day attendance record. Two thousand, five hundred and sixteen guests

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Speaker 1: went through its doors one day. I have a hard

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00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: time imagining that many people. That's a people leader, that's

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Speaker 1: how that works. So there was a rumor leading up

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Speaker 1: to the opening that one of the reporters at a

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Speaker 1: press viewing had had a heart attack and died, causing

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Speaker 1: the ride to be redesigned at the last minute. Extensio

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Speaker 1: has said that the preview period for attractions always reveals

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00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: some problems that need tweaking, but no, no one died

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00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: of fright. One of the early tweaks to the ride

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00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: was the removal of a character that is now referred

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Speaker 1: to as the hat Box Ghost. And this is one

429
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: that if you were into Disney, particularly if you were

430
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: into the Hunt Imagine you know about uh. This featured

431
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: an elderly looking ghost that was holding surprise a hat box,

432
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: and his head was supposed to vanish off of his

433
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: shoulders and then appear in the hat box and then

434
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: switch back again. But the allusion never worked quite right.

435
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: It didn't work as planned at the angle at which

436
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: guests we're seeing it in the place that it was

437
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: meant to go in the mansion from their doom buggies,

438
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: So it just never worked well enough and they ended

439
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: up pulling it really quickly because they didn't want a

440
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: mediocre effect. Um. And as I said, the hat Box

441
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: Ghost is now immensely popular amongst Hana Mansion fans. Uh.

442
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: An updated version of it appeared at d twenty three,

443
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: which is the official Disney convention, just last month so

444
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: this summer, and there have been rumors that if Germo

445
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: del Toro's Haunted Mansion movie ever comes to Fruition, which

446
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: is another on again, off again, on again, off again,

447
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: people say it's canceled. Gaermo del Toro will say in

448
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 1: an interview. No, we're still working on it, so we

449
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: don't really know. Uh, but the rumor is that the

450
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: good old hat Box Ghost will be prominently featured. But

451
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: what plans, if any Disney really has for the character

452
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: is not known to the public at this time to

453
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: the best of my knowledge. So hopefully hat Box comes back.

454
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: There is a I think there is a site called well,

455
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: I know that there's a site called doom Buggies dot com,

456
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: and I think they have a picture that someone managed

457
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: to take very early on in those either preview days

458
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: or one of the first days that it was open

459
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 1: before it got pulled, where you can see what the

460
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: hat Box Ghost looks like. Nice. He's very popular. Versions

461
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 1: of the Haunted Mansion have been installed in Walt Disney

462
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: World in Florida and Tokyo Disneyland. Reimagined versions of the

463
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: attraction appear in Disneyland, Paris and Hong Kong. Disneyland. Phantom

464
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: Manner in Paris is set in a wild West mining town,

465
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: and Mystic Manner in Hong Kong has an adventurer kind

466
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: of world explorer theme. Yeah, it's almost for people that

467
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: have been to Disney and years prior this place is

468
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: now closed, but there used to be a place in

469
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: Downtown Disney called the Adventurers Club, which is kind of

470
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: like an old school hunting club, like the place you

471
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 1: would expect to see Hemingway hanging out. Uh. And the

472
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: Mystic Manner is almost like a marriage of that concept

473
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: and the Haunted Mansion idea, so they have slightly different twists.

474
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: The Phantom Manner is fascinating and it has really good music.

475
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: Mystic Manner has music done by Danny Elfman, so you

476
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: know it's awesome. Each holiday season, the original Anaheim Hanted

477
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: Mansion in the Tokyo Disneyland Hanted Mansion. Uh, they both

478
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 1: get a Nightmare before Christmas overlay, which is called Haunted

479
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: Mansion Holiday. And so from roughly the beginning of October

480
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: through the end of the year and usually the first

481
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: couple days of January, instead of going and seeing the

482
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: usual haunts that you would see on the attraction, the

483
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: visitors get to see Jack and Sally and Zero and

484
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: Oogie Boogie and the rest of the inhabitants of Halloween

485
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: Town because it's kind of turned into a Halloween Town

486
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 1: situation and it is amazing. I cried the first time

487
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: I was on, and I'm not embarrassed to tell you

488
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: because I also love Nightmare before Christmas. Um, it's lovely.

489
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: I wish I could go every year, but I never

490
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: managed to do so. So uh, probably will not be

491
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: a surprise to anyone that there have been many, many

492
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: claims of actual ghost sightings in the various haunted mansions

493
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: around the world, both by guests and by cast members.

494
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: He and there's always the story of people scattering ashes

495
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: in the mansion. I don't like that idea, no, and

496
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: Disney doesn't either. I don't know if there have ever

497
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: been any confirmed ones, but uh, you'll hear kind of

498
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: apocryphal stories where people are like, no, we vacuum that

499
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: right up. Um, So if you think you might want

500
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: to do that, no, that you're not. Really They're going

501
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 1: to end up in a vacuum. And that seems inconsiderate

502
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: of other Yeah, it's not good, you know. I don't

503
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: want to dison how people choose to express their grief

504
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: and their wishes of loved ones. I do not really

505
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: approve of the idea of getting other people's remains on

506
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,239
Speaker 1: me while I'm in a theme park. Rod, You're right,

507
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: I understand there's no where I would rather be scattered,

508
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: but you know, those are the rules. And what is

509
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: missing in this final build of the Haunted Mansion was

510
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: Ralei Crump's Museum of the Weird because as they were,

511
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: you know, really ramping up towards the last chunk of production,

512
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: they realized it wasn't gonna work. Um, So it got scrapped.

513
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: But many of his ideas for the museum are in

514
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: the attraction itself. Uh And as we mentioned, like the

515
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: seance room with the floating furniture that was his idea originally.

516
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: The busts that follow people, which is a really cool trick.

517
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: They're actually cast in recess, so they're set back and

518
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: it's just kind of a natural cool effect that when

519
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,239
Speaker 1: you go by the way they're painted, they look like

520
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: they're bust standing outside, but they're actually a negative and

521
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: it looks like they're following you. It's awesome. Um. And

522
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: what's interesting is that, um there is in some of

523
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: the parks there's a souvenir stand outside because it doesn't

524
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: dump out into a gift shop, and the souvenir stand

525
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: looks a lot like really Crump's Haunted Fortune teller cart,

526
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: which is kind of fun. And that's another thing that

527
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: there have been rumblings about through the years that the

528
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: Museum of the Weird is being kicked around as a

529
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: possible starting point for a full length feature film, script,

530
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: that it's going to be incorporated into a video game.

531
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: There have even been rumors that it's going to be

532
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: its own attraction eventually, but so far those have not materialized.

533
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: There's a story I think that l A Times ran

534
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: like three years ago, that Ahmed Zappa was working on

535
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: a script treatment about it, and then Disney was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

536
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 1: that's not happening. So, you know, there's there's always more

537
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: to talk about with then I mansion much more. Yeah,

538
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: I mean, we've hit on some of the higher points,

539
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 1: but there's so much story there in legacy, and because

540
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: so many of those imagineers are still with us and

541
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: are often, um, you know, make appearances or do interviews.

542
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: Really Crump's book came out at the end of last year,

543
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: and it's quite fun. He's kind of a pistol. He's

544
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: got an interesting history both in and outside of Disney,

545
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: and you know, he's led a wildlife in many ways.

546
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: And he doesn't really hold back. He's very fun excitencia.

547
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 1: Like I said, just comes across as the sweetest man

548
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: you would ever want to meet on the planet. And

549
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: they love to wax rapsodic and talk about the old

550
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: times and working on this project. And I'm sure it

551
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: was a trial by fire, but they still seem to

552
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: look back at it kind of lovingly because they recognize

553
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: what it became. Yeah, if I had been working at

554
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: Disney in the in the fifties, I'm sure I would

555
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: be waxing or epsodic about that all the time, even

556
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: if it was really hard, because of what it grew into. Yeah,

557
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: and it does sound like it again. It's one of

558
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: those things where we see it today and it's a huge,

559
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: massive company and you know, uh, many people talk about

560
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 1: how they their dream job would be to work for Disney,

561
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: and it was even for these guys. But I think

562
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: people don't realize it wasn't like you instantly get rich.

563
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: Like I was watching an interview with Roly Crump not

564
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: too long ago, and he was saying when he got

565
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: hired at Disney, they offered him less than half of

566
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: what he was making working in Uh. I think a

567
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: ceramic tile factory, and he was like, I have a

568
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: kid on the way, I don't know what to do. Man,

569
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: I really want to work for Disney. Uh So he

570
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: took it, and he had to take a second job.

571
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: Like I mean, these weren't like Pie in the Sky,

572
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: super dreamy, easy coasting jobs. They worked really, really hard.

573
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: So I could see, we're looking back, you would be

574
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: very proud of that work because you really had to

575
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: be committed. Uh So that's our We'll let the haunts

576
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: rest for now. Thank you so much for joining us

577
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: today for this classic. If you have heard any kind

578
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: of email address or maybe a Facebook you are l

579
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: during the course of the episode, that might be obsolete.

580
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: It might be doubly obsolete because we have changed our

581
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: email address again. You can now reach us at History

582
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: podcast at i heart radio dot com, and we're all

583
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: over social media at missed in History and you can

584
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, Google podcast, the

585
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: I heart Radio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts.

586
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of

587
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,

588
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

589
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,