WEBVTT - Walls Closing In 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wika FP Daily with 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:19.800 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody reporting from the Brooklyn Bunker, Folks. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.680 In my conversation today with our friend MSNBC legal analyst 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:29.160 and host of Justice Matters Glenn Kirshner, we dive into 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:34.400 the walls that are closing in on Donald Trump. At 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.560 least I say that I would like for these walls 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.519 to be closing in on Donald Trump. And Glenn is 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:44.200 going to walk us through upcoming on the show, basically 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.680 what unfolded at the end of last week with the 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:53.200 Georgia grand Jury. So here's where we are. Donald Trump 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:58.200 has so many fucking cases against him right now. But 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.360 the issue that we are having, and the issue that 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.479 has always been with the Trumps, is that while they 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:09.160 are sued numerous amounts of times, they were never really 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.560 convicted of anything. And that's the problem. And this is 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.440 how when he was, you know, the King of New 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.559 York in the eighties and the early nineties, why Donald 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.760 Trump had the name teflon Don because nothing ever stuck. 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.280 He was like the fucking mobster that you always tried 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.320 to pin the murders on, but you would turn up 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.640 with nobody. And that's the thing is that Donald Trump 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.840 I believe that he entered into the presidency with the 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.440 belief that he knew that he was hundreds of millions 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.880 of dollars in debt, that he could use the presidency 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.800 as a way to hustle, right as the grifter that 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:51.559 he is, which he did a monument's clause what, and 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:56.320 that he also could use it as cover for all 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.280 of the cases and the trials and the things that 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.080 people had said. I mean, remember, folks, like just go 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.960 back in your mind. Donald Trump has over twenty women 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.399 that have accused him of sexual assault and or harassment. Right, 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:15.720 Donald Trump has a numerous amounts of photos with Jeffrey 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:21.880 Epstein and Jesse Elaine. Right, Maxwell, you know who this 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.919 man is. You know that the Trump Foundation and University 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.760 was shut down by Attorney General Letitia James, new York 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:34.320 Attorney General, right because of fraud. And so the investigation 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.840 that continues in New York is on fraud. Now moving 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.960 down the line in the Trump shell businesses to Trump 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:46.760 organization as a whole. But that case is a civil case, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.919 and Glen will walk us through obviously, the difference between 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.600 civil charges that could possibly be brought and again they 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:57.079 have yet to happen. But what was said out of 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.240 the AG's office is that there is mount team right quotes, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.720 air quotes, mounting evidence that there was fraud that has 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.160 happened and was the norm for the Trump organization. In 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.920 a civil case though there's no jail time. But the 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:21.560 recent movements down in Georgia by Georgia A. G. Willis 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.800 is different because we're actually talking about criminal charges. And 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.160 the reason why she has now asked for there to 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.240 be a special grand jury called in is because Georgia 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.320 law does not allow for regular grand juries to be 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:42.200 able to authorize subpoenas with any force. And what do 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.040 we know about Trump and company. They don't give a 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.680 fuck about subpoenas, right, They don't care about congressional subpoenas. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.960 And unless it's coming down from the Department of Justice, 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.760 which Glen will tell us about, then there really are 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:57.720 no teeth to these subpoenas and so they can just 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.760 shrug and say, oh, I didn't see it, maybe it 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:06.240 went to spam. Right. The interesting thing though about the 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:11.200 Georgia case is that Trump is caught on audio again. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.680 Can you find me eleven thousand seven hundred and eighty 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.600 six votes. I mean, you do not have to be 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.720 a rocket scientist to be able to infer what the 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.240 intent was there, right, Like, Oh, I wonder what he 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.400 meant by that, Just like I wonder what Donald Trump 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.240 meant on January in January before the January sixth insurrection 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.440 when he said that January sixth was going to be wild. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.080 I wonder what he meant by that when he was 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.480 sitting around for a hundred and eighty seven minutes while 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:46.360 police officers were brutalized, right while after six people end 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:51.160 up dead, and does nothing right? Does nothing? We know 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:59.039 that his spawn, Ivanka Trump was asked right because apparently 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.640 the one six Committee, the one six Commission in the 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.080 House is still in the vein of like playing nice 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:12.080 and asking right for information as opposed to recognizing again 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.799 who these people are and treating them like the criminals 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.000 we know them to be. So Ivanka Trump is going 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.160 to do what she's been taught her whole life. Sidestep 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.359 the law. Play just really close to the margins and 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.720 if you go over, well, you're a Trump and it'll 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.760 be covered up. Anyway, When I say that the walls 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.039 are closing in I hope to God that they are. 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.560 But what I will add is that this Department of Justice, 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.960 I don't give a fuck about what press conferences Merritt 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:43.679 Garland wants to hold. He the man has no spine, 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.880 he has no teeth. Tell me why with the walking in, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.720 with the Mulla report, just sitting on your desk, right, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.960 and the ability to go after the ten ways in 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:59.719 which he laid out that this administration obstructed justice. How 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:04.880 there is no parallel fucking case being brought by the 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:09.160 Department of Justice which actually can enforce subpoenas that if 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.320 you don't show up right, you are thrown in jail. 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.719 I mean, if you are a fan of law and order, 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.440 and again that's the only place that I get my 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.200 legal degree from, then you always see like sell bench 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.120 warrants here and people being thrown in jail. But as 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.359 we see, if you are wealthy, if you are white, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.640 if you are male and well connected, then you are 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.800 in fact above the law all of the things right 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.160 that the Democratic Party has been saying, and the Commission 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.880 has said, and you've heard from other people, and we 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.240 heard Merritt Garland a couple of weeks ago. Nobody is 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:44.800 above the law. Well, then prove it, prove that nobody 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.839 is above the law with a mountain of evidence that 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.680 you have in front of you, knowing that the administration 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.479 was crooked, knowing that Donald Trump is a fraud and 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.440 a thief and a grifter, knowing all of those things 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:01.440 to be true. Again, where is the case? Right? And 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.560 Glenn for the first time will also say that his 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.920 feelings about the Department of Justice and giving them more 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.360 and more time more in or our room is starting 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:17.040 to frustrate him. And these are colleagues and friends. So 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.560 you think to yourself, if folks like us who are 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.640 engaged on a day to day basis and actually have 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.320 some skin in the game here because politics is our 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:31.480 work and want to uphold democracy and do our part 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.680 to do so, and we are feeling spent, We are 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.440 feeling like we are over right the administration over the 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:42.040 Department of Justice. How do you think that regular Americans 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:47.080 are feeling? Right? You know, I asked at the end 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.480 of last week on social media, and I've asked all 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.320 of you here what is the grade that you would 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.120 give to the Biden administration? And I include the Department 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:59.680 of Justice in there, right, because Biden appointed Merrick Garland. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.240 I initially thought that it was as a big fu 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:06.360 to Mitch McConnell and the Republicans, like Meerka is going 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.400 to get in here somewhere, right, and we knew that 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:15.800 the confirmation would go relatively smooth. But then now I 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.200 look around and I'm just like, you could have chosen anybody, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.480 anybody with some force, with some grit, to be your 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.600 age to show that you would go after the former 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:31.760 president because we need to close every single loophole that 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.679 Trump was able to worm his way through to protect 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.040 our democracy. This isn't a partisan attack. This is that wow, 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:47.520 you really essentially, I didn't know until Donald Trump's refusal 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.760 to show his taxes that that wasn't part of the law. 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:55.040 That was just a political norm that every single president 0:08:55.400 --> 0:09:00.719 all forty four before him abided by Donald Trump is 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.520 just like, well, if it's not the law, and even 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.560 if it is, I'm going to get my fucking you know, 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:09.840 crackerjack box of lawyers to slow walk this so that 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.360 I don't ever have to show over my papers. Well, 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.960 the only people that do that are criminals. But we 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.160 allowed that to slide. That was one of the first 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.160 initial political norms that we allowed Donald Trump to disrupt 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.360 and that was before he was president of the United States. 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:31.720 Every other candidate for the Republican Party had shown their taxes, 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:37.199 but Donald Trump. So again, what does that say about 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:40.160 our ability to just continue to sweep things under the 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:42.760 rug and then turn around and realize that we have 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.959 Mount Everest in front of us, and now the Department 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.400 of Justice is just like oooh, the climb team seems 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.560 too steep, seems like too much work to even get 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.160 to base camp. So we might as well just not bother. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.760 We'll just go after the low level folks at the bottom, 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.280 and then that should satisfied the masses. Well, guess what 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:07.400 it fucking does not. We are not satisfied by the 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.600 three years over here for insurrectionists, or a couple of 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.160 months over there, or just a slap on the wrist, 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.960 and oh, I hope you don't do this again as 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:21.079 they're building up their arsenals. Folks, we have nine months 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:28.160 roughly right give or take until midterm elections. And again, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.440 if you look at what people are saying about the 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:37.200 Biden administration, even Woke aff Nation, if we were to 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.360 take the average of the grades that people are throwing 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:45.000 out this administration would get what I offered on Woke 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.760 Wednesday and on here, which is a D plus. A 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:55.000 D plus C minus is what folks are saying. So 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:59.400 if that is really how the American people feel, right 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.040 and these are progressives folks like you and I, If 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.520 they're saying D plus C minus, then what about those 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.840 people who are not engaged on a day to day basis? 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.440 What do you think they think about this administration? So 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.280 how does that look as we head into midterm elections 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:22.480 when Democrats literally have nothing to run on. I mean, 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:27.640 you listen to you listened last week to you know, 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:32.160 Principal Deputy White House Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre. You 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.680 listen to her offer what she believes are some of 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:39.240 the high points of the administration. And I said to her, 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:45.360 but the American public, their memories are real short. So 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.520 if you're talking about a COVID relief package that you 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.680 were able to push through in January twenty twenty one, 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.840 you think anybody is remembering that come November of twenty 0:11:55.880 --> 0:12:02.240 twenty two, Probably not, because America is always looking at 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.960 what have you done for me lately? And we know 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:09.880 that the game is always stacked against the party of 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:15.560 the sitting president. So they're not doing themselves any favors 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.680 right now, and this is the problem that we are facing. 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.839 And so coming up next, Glenn will walk us through 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.760 the difference in these two major cases that are coming 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.760 down and what the timeline he believes that we are 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.480 going to be working with over the course of the 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.679 next several months, God forbid the next couple of years, 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.960 which I believe that we actually do not have. We 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:47.199 are running out of time because as soon as Republicans 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:51.920 sweep in the midterm elections, all of this commission work, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:55.600 all of this digging is going to grind to a halt, 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.520 and we are going to see frivolous hearing after frivolous 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.520 hearing at seven pm Eastern every single day to make 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.800 Joe Biden and the Biden administration look as crooked as 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:13.440 the Trump organization actually is. So folks, that conversation is 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:19.680 coming up next. Folks. You know that I am always 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.640 so grateful when we have our friend MSNBC legal analyst 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.520 and the host of Justice Matters, Glenn Kirshner, join us 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.360 to talk our way through the mess that is going 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:35.080 on in Trump's world. The other day, Hailey Jackson put 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:38.680 up a slide that had to be in such small 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.760 font on MSNBC of all of the infractions because there 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.720 are so many, tell us what's happening in Georgia, because 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.959 you offered reading of the tea leaves last week to 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.160 tell us what was what was going to be coming up. 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.679 Now we have an order for a special grand jury. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.760 What does that mean? Daniellis is a mess and we're 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.640 all in this mess together, you know, Georgia. I think 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.200 it's a good news story, only one of a few 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.200 good news stories in the last week or two. But so, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.760 Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis has been investigating this 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.920 case for some time. Presumably she's been investigating it with 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:18.120 a regular grand jury in Georgia. The quirk about Georgia 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.960 grand jury practices the regular grand jury doesn't have the 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:25.920 subpoena power, so apparently, and I see parallels between how 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:30.080 the House Select Committee has been conducting its investigation and 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.320 what we're now learning in Georgia, and I'll talk about 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.480 those in a minute. But she has applied to the 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:39.040 Chief Judge of the Fulton County Superior Court asking that 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.640 a special grand jury being paneled so she can issue 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:49.640 enforceable subpoenas. Why because not everybody has been cooperating voluntarily 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.600 with her investigation. Doesn't that sound a lot like what's 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.520 going on in Washington? The House Select Committee has interviewed, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.080 has taken testimony from, and received evidence from more than 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.880 four hundred witnesses. Those are the people who are voluntarily cooperating. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.920 Then there are a handful of people who won't. Those 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.400 are the members of the cover up Caucus, right. That's 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.960 Jim Jordan, oct Perry and Mark Meadows and Steve Bannon, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.960 and hopefully we'll talk about Ivanka in a few minutes 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.560 and whether she's going to want to join the cover 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.600 up Caucus. So, just as lots of people have been 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.320 cooperating with the House Select Committee investigation, but some have not, 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.640 I think Fannie Willis is experiencing the same thing in Georgia, 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.600 which is why she finally said, now I need a 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.360 special grand jury so I can start banging out people 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:42.960 with subpoenas and forcing them to testify. So it's a 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.600 good step forward, and I am hoping that Fannie Willis 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.520 is closer to an indictment than she is being on 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.720 the front end of her investigation because we all heard 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:58.040 the criminal phone call that Donald Trump made. Just give 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.120 me one more vote them I need to win and 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.440 corruptly declare me the winner of the Georgia state election. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.240 So the Georgia story is a good news story and 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:11.800 a good development this week. So let's you know, because thankful, 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:15.840 thanks to you, the listeners of woke f have their 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.440 uh you know, minors in law right in Trump law, 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.840 in Trump indictments. What is the difference? Like, what what 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.400 is it that we are looking for and hearing the 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:32.040 rumblings about with Tish James ag in New York where 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.800 I am, and what it is that a G. Willis 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.880 is looking for? So you just brought up the fact 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.480 that we're going back to the give me another vote, right, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.880 which sounds a lot like Zelensky do me a favor though, 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.840 which sounds a lot like how Trump has operated for 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.280 his entire life. So what are these two parallel tracks 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.800 that are being run? And I and I will would 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.400 be remiss if I did not recognize that it is 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.280 black women that are leading the charge in these two 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:05.560 different states to get justice right for Georgia and for 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.919 New York in the ways in which Donald Trump and 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:12.000 his criminal enterprises have been able to maneuver around these places. 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.280 What's the difference between what is happening in New York 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.760 what is happening in Georgia? And do you think Donald 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.560 Trump right now is getting more and more nervous He 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.280 should be because the investigative circle is tightening around him. 0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.920 That is indisputable. That's a matter of fact, I would contend. 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.880 So to your question, what's going on in New York. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.520 Tis James Attorney General's Office is a civil investigation into 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:41.879 potential fraud by the Trump organization, including by Donald Trump, Ivanka, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:47.040 Eric and Don Junior. And we somewhat deliciously saw in 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.320 a court filing, which was appropriate because the Trumps are 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.439 fighting in court the subpoenas that they've been served with 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:00.679 to testify in that fraud investigation civil investor stigation. So 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.920 nobody will ever go to jail in connection with Tiss 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.320 James investigation. That's civil fraud. She could sue, she could 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.000 recover damages on behalf of the state of New York, 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.480 and she could shut down the Trump organization, but that's civil, 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:21.120 not criminal. So she disclosed in that litigation that well, 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.840 when Eric Trump fought the subpoena that she served on him, 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.080 lost that fight and was forced to sit for a deposition. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.679 He invoked this Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination more 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.439 than five hundred times. Now, let's set aside the yeah, 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:38.840 more than five hundred times, that's in the court filing. 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.600 Let's set aside the comedic value of Donald Trump saying, now, 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:48.240 apparently this applies to his son. Only mobsters plead the Fifth. 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.600 The really important thing for us to remember is when 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.920 you invoke the Fifth you have an absolute constitutional right 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.080 under the Fifth Amendment against self incrimination. And I will 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.399 fight for your right to do that, regard hardless of 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.080 how cruddy you are. But when you do it in 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.600 a criminal case, it can't be held against you. In 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.320 a civil case it can. So when and if this 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.960 case goes to trial, when I predict when, not If 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.480 Tish James drops a big old civil suit on Donald 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.400 Trump and his organization, they will be able to take 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.920 those five hundred invocations of the Fifth Amendment by Eric, 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.199 and they will be able to present it to the 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:31.040 civil grand jury. And the civil law is such that 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.240 the judge will instruct the civil jury. You can take 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:40.080 Eric's invocation of his fifth amend privilege against self incrimination 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.360 into account in the evidence. You can draw adverse inferences 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.080 against him based on it, and you can use it 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.680 as a basis as part of your verdict and your 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:54.760 judgment against Eric and perhaps by extension, the Trump organization, 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:58.040 depending on how the case is handled. So that is 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:02.439 what Tish James is doing ugly consequential, but it's civil 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.480 not criminal. What Fannie Willis is doing is even more 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.000 consequential because it's criminal and people could go to prison. 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.159 So let's talk for a moment, because what Tish James 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.400 is doing sounds a lot like how we were able 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.280 to shut down Trump University, right and Trump Foundation. This 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.240 is a similar situation in which they were able to 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.639 uncover the fact that the Trump Foundation and the university 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.639 were basically swindling people, right, Like, they were basically swindling 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.520 folks using the university and the foundation as some type 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.240 of front right to be able to funnel in money. 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:45.040 So that was shut down. Was there a fine associated 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.080 with that, like did they have to pay back the 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.760 people who they swindled out of their money or was 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.520 it the big aha with Trump? You know, was just 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.960 shutting it down. So I asked that because I'm like 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.359 with if it's the same road that we're walking down 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:07.080 in New York with the Trump organization is the biggest 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.560 issue just being shut down, but they can pop up 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.280 with another name in another place, or are they going 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:17.800 to have to owe back back fees, back taxes, back 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.000 whatever financial gains that they had, they'll have to give 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.160 it back. So I don't know the answer with respect 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.199 of the Trump University case, how that ended up and 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.600 what happened beyond Trump University being shut down put out 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:35.240 a business, And I don't want to guess. What I 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:38.800 will say is ordinarily in those kind of civil suits, 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.240 it's all about the damages. So you have to pay 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:46.200 back to the victims whatever fraudulent money you took from them. 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:48.719 You may have to pay fines and penalties, There may 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.719 be back taxes, there may be court costs, There may 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:56.240 be any number of financial implications as a result of 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.280 those kind of kind of cases. So yes, I assume 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.040 that will be part and parcel of whatever civil suit 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.439 Tiss James ends upbringing. But remember she hasn't filed the 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.440 civil suit yet against the Trump organization. She's investigating it. 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.600 That's why she's issued Penis to Eric that one is 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.800 behind us now, to Trump, to Ivanka, to Don Junior. 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.160 And that signals to me that she's at the very 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.359 end of her civil investigation, because you don't go at 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.240 the targets until the very end, when you have all 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:31.040 of the other evidence you can confront them with when 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:34.159 they are compelled to sit for a deposition. And it 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.360 is at that point she'll probably drop a big old 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.760 fraud lawsuit on Trump and his organization. What is the 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:48.320 likelihood that the fraud right would turn into the fraud 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:53.640 in New York could possibly turn into also a criminal investigation, 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:59.399 like isn't fraud and committing it like an actual crime? Yes? 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.440 So let's and let's remember the Manhattan District Attorney who 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.600 was Sivance and it's now Alvin Bragg who has taken over, 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:08.640 and I suspect he's going to do even better work 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:13.360 than Sivance. I was not all that impressed with Sivance's tenure, 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.640 given some of what we learned about how he dealt 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.760 with Trump and the organization. But there already is a 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:24.199 criminal prosecution going hunt of the Trump organization. Alan Weislberg, 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:27.200 the chief financial officer, and I suspect there are more 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.119 indictments to drop in that case. And remember there is 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.359 a piece of the investigation involving the civil fraud that 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:40.120 is partnered up with the Manhattan DA's criminal probe, which 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:42.479 is a blessing and a curse. It's good because you know, 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:46.280 two organizations are better than one when you're attacking large 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:51.080 institutional organizational crime and fraud. But it does give Trump 0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:53.960 a little bit of a challenge to make against the 0:23:54.000 --> 0:23:56.800 civil subpoenas, saying, wait a minute, this is just a 0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.640 ruse to try to get me under oath and then 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.119 use it against me in the criminal prosecution. Because the 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:07.840 AG's office is even working with the Manhattan DA's office 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.440 in that way. That's a that's an allegation that will 0:24:11.520 --> 0:24:14.679 ultimately be rejected. And I predict these subpoenas will be 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.160 enforced and Don and Don Junior, Ivanka and Trump will 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:21.080 have to sit for these depositions. What I also predict 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:23.520 is they will all invoke the fifth and him at 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:28.399 right against self incrimination, just like Eric did. This is 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:32.520 just wild to me. So going back to Georgia, now 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:38.119 m willis asked for a special grand jury. What is 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:43.960 the timeline of the ask the approval, then we go 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:47.040 through the process I'm assuming of putting together a grand jury, 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:49.720 So just quickly walk us through that, and then we'll 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:52.960 transition to the one six commission. But I you know, 0:24:53.000 --> 0:24:58.120 it's always grand jury, special grand jury. What are these people? Well? 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:00.440 Who are these people? How do we go about them? 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.320 And how long that processes? Is it six weeks up 0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:06.159 they're sitting? Is it twelve? And remember we had a 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:08.639 special grand jury impaneled in New York the district at 0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:11.280 twenty two, But that was because the grand juries in 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:13.600 New York only sit for about four weeks and they 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.240 needed consistency, so they asked for a six month long 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:20.600 special grand jury. That was more about timing than it 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.600 was about the authority that that grand jury has to 0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.320