1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

2
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:19,360
Speaker 1: I've Never told your production of iHeart Radio. So for

3
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,720
Speaker 1: today's classic, we wanted to bring back an interview that

4
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,640
Speaker 1: we did with my across a while back back in

5
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:32,360
Speaker 1: the studio. Man such long ago, such long ago, as

6
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 1: they say, a whole time ago. Look I'm having a moment, yes,

7
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,479
Speaker 1: but as an interview about crisis pregnancy centers, and we

8
00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 1: wanted to bring this one back because we talked about

9
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: it quite a bit in our recent episode. It also

10
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,880
Speaker 1: an interview that we did with Liz Winstead. Yes, and

11
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 1: it has been it's been in the news a lot lately,

12
00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,840
Speaker 1: especially as we've seen kind of a wave of anti

13
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,200
Speaker 1: abortion laws and then a lot of times these places,

14
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,119
Speaker 1: these CPCs are set up near abortion clinics, so they

15
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,320
Speaker 1: look the same and kind of easily confused between the two.

16
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 1: So we thought we would bring back this classic episode.

17
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:24,360
Speaker 1: Please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie. Hey, this is Samantha,

18
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,160
Speaker 1: and welcome to stuff I've Never Told you, a production

19
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:38,840
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. In Phay's episode,

20
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,480
Speaker 1: we're going to be discussing something that I think, um

21
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,679
Speaker 1: with all of the news coming out, might be on

22
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: some people's minds is important to discuss and to discuss it,

23
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: and it being crisis pregnancy centers. We are joined by Maya.

24
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 1: Would you like to introduce yourself and tell the listeners

25
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself? Nah? Yeah, thank you so

26
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 1: much for having me on. My name, miss Maya Craft.

27
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 1: I've been a journalist for about fifteen years, but I'm

28
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: sort of new to Atlanta. I'm from California originally, and

29
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,239
Speaker 1: I landed in Atlanta about a year and a half

30
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,800
Speaker 1: ago with kind of which I think was kind of

31
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 1: an interesting moment in Um. This the South, you know,

32
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 1: changing demographics of the South and and it's an especially

33
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: interesting place to be at this moment. So UM, when

34
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 1: my editor approached me to write this story about crisis

35
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,440
Speaker 1: pregnancy centers with everything that was going on with the

36
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,519
Speaker 1: changing reproductive rights landscape, I jumped on the opportunity. Yes,

37
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,079
Speaker 1: and we are so glad to have you here because um,

38
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 1: your piece and medium was excellently done. UM and it's

39
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 1: called Inside the Shadow clinics for listeners who want to

40
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 1: look it up. And as you're writing it, it was

41
00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,920
Speaker 1: around the time that Brett Kavanaugh was being confirmed for

42
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, and as we record this now, several

43
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: states are passing very restrictive abortion laws, ultimately with the

44
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 1: goal of overturning Roe v. Wade. So we thought it

45
00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,359
Speaker 1: would be good time to talk about it. But let's

46
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 1: start with the basics. What are crisis pregnancy centers. Yeah,

47
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy centers. They're also sometimes called pregnancy resource centers.

48
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 1: These are centers that are run by faith based groups

49
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,919
Speaker 1: UM that basically exists to talk women out of having

50
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 1: an abortion. UM. From the outside, they might look like

51
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,200
Speaker 1: a traditional women's health clinic. Some of them even have

52
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: innocuous names like the Women's Clinic UM. But when you

53
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 1: get in there you see a lot of Christian literature

54
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:42,320
Speaker 1: and the lobby so um. These centers often masquerade as

55
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,560
Speaker 1: traditional women's healthcare clinics, but when you dig a little deeper,

56
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 1: you realize that's not what they are. A lot of

57
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 1: times they open up right across the street from a

58
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 1: planned parenthood although in states like Georgia where there are

59
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: so few abortion clinics, uh, they'll just open up anywhere

60
00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: that you might find women who might be considering an abortion.

61
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: College campuses, that kind of thing, mm hmm. And I

62
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,720
Speaker 1: know that Um. A while back, John Oliver did a

63
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,440
Speaker 1: piece of them and they he kind of focused a

64
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,960
Speaker 1: little bit on the vans, like they all move around

65
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,240
Speaker 1: in vans and park outside. Oh yeah, there's one that

66
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: I think parks out front of a church in Hateville. Yeah.

67
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,119
Speaker 1: I tried to go and catch it, but it wasn't

68
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't keeping regular hours. They're really regularly available in

69
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,920
Speaker 1: like a lot of suburban areas. I found because I

70
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,360
Speaker 1: as I worked in defacts and as I worked with

71
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,520
Speaker 1: state government stuff, and in the state of Georgia, they

72
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,400
Speaker 1: kind of leaned towards faith based, ah, faith based, evidence

73
00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 1: based of resources, and there are a lot almost per

74
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,560
Speaker 1: county I think, and it's really available as an access

75
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 1: resource foremost teenage girl. Yeah, they're definitely much more prevalent

76
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,039
Speaker 1: in Georgia than a Planned parenthood for example, or any

77
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 1: other kind of traditional women's sealth clinic that provides abortion services. Yeah,

78
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 1: and that's a good segue into my next question, which

79
00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 1: is do you have any numbers around this? Yeah, there's

80
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,160
Speaker 1: actually one of the researchers I interviewed from my piece

81
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 1: is this woman named Andreas Schwartz and Drew ber from

82
00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 1: the University of Georgia. She's put together a map of

83
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy centers across the United States in an effort

84
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 1: to sort of help women identify is this a crisis

85
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 1: pregnancy center or is this a traditional medical clinic where

86
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to find sort of more unbiased medical information. Um.

87
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,840
Speaker 1: And the numbers that she came up with were somewhere

88
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 1: around crisis pregnancy centers in the United States. And just

89
00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 1: for some perspective, that's about three times the number of

90
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 1: abortion clinics in the country. So they're outnumbering abortion clinics

91
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 1: three to one. In places like Georgia, it's more like

92
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:47,240
Speaker 1: ten to one. Wow. Um. And I'm wondering compared to

93
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 1: the states that we talked about earlier when we had

94
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,800
Speaker 1: our episode of about abortion, there are several states don't

95
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: have one abortion clinic or and then you compared to

96
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 1: how I wonder how many they have of those types

97
00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:02,559
Speaker 1: of crisis centers. Yeah. Uh. And one thing, like you said,

98
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,600
Speaker 1: they do typically look like in a lot of cases,

99
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: like an abortion clinic, and you might go in and

100
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 1: they might be the staff there might be wearing like

101
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 1: scobs or some kind of medical attire. Um. But it

102
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,440
Speaker 1: is typically run by volunteers. Correct, it depends. Some of

103
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 1: these places are quite well funded, they have budgets over

104
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,000
Speaker 1: a million dollars a year. Others are shoe string operations

105
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,800
Speaker 1: that are basically the extension of the local church. And

106
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 1: you might have a couple young people, you know, who

107
00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: are basically youth pastor you know, kind of like that

108
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 1: sort of level, um, you know, earning a part time

109
00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 1: salary to staff these centers. So it really runs the gamut.

110
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,240
Speaker 1: And you you spoke to someone who worked that one

111
00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: in Georgia, Correct, it did. Yeah, it was hard to

112
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 1: get access to these crisis pregnancy centers. They're not very

113
00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 1: media friendly. I wonder why that there was one in Jonesboro,

114
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 1: Georgia where I was able to spend some time with

115
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,279
Speaker 1: the two women who staff it and learn a little

116
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,320
Speaker 1: bit about what goes on there, what kind of services

117
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,440
Speaker 1: they offer, what their facilities look like, and um, what

118
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 1: their point of view is on on what they're doing. Um.

119
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,400
Speaker 1: It was really it was really illuminating. But I think

120
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 1: the one thing that struck me most was how young,

121
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 1: how young these people were, and how far removed they

122
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,680
Speaker 1: were from any kind of medical training. You know, they

123
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 1: were very passionate about their faith, and that's definitely the

124
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,400
Speaker 1: place where they were coming from, right. I remember in

125
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,600
Speaker 1: your PC she wrote about how didn't you show one

126
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 1: of them like a website? And he said, this is

127
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,640
Speaker 1: a crisis pregnancy center website and he said like abortion

128
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,520
Speaker 1: and there several times and she was like, are you sure? Yeah.

129
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,760
Speaker 1: I thought it was a great sort of snapshot of

130
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 1: how this industry is changing, right, because the crisis pregnancy

131
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,520
Speaker 1: centers have been around a long time. I'm sure everybody

132
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: has driven down the freeway past one of these billboards.

133
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,480
Speaker 1: It's like Pregnant Scared called this eight hundred number. That's

134
00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,680
Speaker 1: been around forever, and it's kind of an older model

135
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:11,080
Speaker 1: of crisis pregnancy centers. The new thing is obscuring the

136
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,760
Speaker 1: link between the religious organization that usually backs these centers

137
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 1: and making them look more like medical clinics. So the

138
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,640
Speaker 1: center that I visited was much more this old model.

139
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 1: Um it had one of those billboards out over the

140
00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 1: boulevard and Jones Borough and that's how they got I

141
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,680
Speaker 1: think most people through the door. So we I had

142
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 1: her pull up the website for one of these kind

143
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 1: of more twenty feet century, more savvy crisis pregnancy centers

144
00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: where you could not tell, like, even if you were

145
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,120
Speaker 1: like a media scholar looking at this website, you couldn't

146
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,720
Speaker 1: tell that it's not an abortion clinic. You know, it

147
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,920
Speaker 1: says want an abortion, schedule an appointment today and click here. Um.

148
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,120
Speaker 1: And you know, she and I spent some time looking

149
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: at this website and she didn't believe me that it

150
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 1: was a crisis pregnancy center. So it's really you know,

151
00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,439
Speaker 1: even people within the industry don't entirely know the true

152
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,199
Speaker 1: motivation of these things. So what was her response was

153
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,160
Speaker 1: just like, no, that's not right, Like that was just

154
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,960
Speaker 1: her whole she she personally was, um, not cool with

155
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,520
Speaker 1: being that misleading. But then I asked her, I said,

156
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, if you're so upfront about, you know, the

157
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,880
Speaker 1: fact that you're a Christian ministry that's just providing alternative information,

158
00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 1: why don't you say Christian pregnancy counseling on your sign?

159
00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: Why do you just say pregnancy center. She didn't have

160
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,080
Speaker 1: a great answer for that. Um, but this isn't about

161
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 1: an individual. This is a big, well funded network of

162
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 1: centers all across the country that are you know, conducting

163
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,160
Speaker 1: this coordinated campaign to change the conversation around abortion. Right,

164
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 1: and um, there are three nationwide networks. Correct, Yeah, there

165
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 1: are three. UM Care net is the main one, NIFLA

166
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: is another, and Heartbeat International. Um. Yeah, so they they

167
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:03,040
Speaker 1: run a majority of these centers, or the centers are

168
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,680
Speaker 1: affiliated with those networks. And there's also a company called

169
00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: Heritage House that provides a lot of the pamphlets and

170
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,880
Speaker 1: materials that you'll find in these centers. UM plastic models

171
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 1: of a uterus with showing different stages of fetal development. Um.

172
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 1: All these pamphlets purportedly physician approved information about abortion that

173
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,040
Speaker 1: turns out to be quite misleading, if not outright false. Yeah,

174
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,680
Speaker 1: and um that's something that we should say if we

175
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,560
Speaker 1: haven't already. But they're largely unregulated UM facilities, and they

176
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,640
Speaker 1: promise all sorts of things some of them do. Could

177
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: you go into that a little bit. Yeah. Usually what

178
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 1: gets people in the door is the free pregnancy test

179
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 1: and free ultrasound. A lot of times, I think women

180
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,680
Speaker 1: need proof of pregnancy in order to get certain benefits

181
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 1: from the state. UM. So that's what gets people in

182
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,320
Speaker 1: the door. But a lot of times the pregnancy tests

183
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,160
Speaker 1: that they're offering are not any more sophisticated than what

184
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,960
Speaker 1: you'd buy at the drug store for a couple of bucks. Um,

185
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: and the ultrasounds are most of the time, these are

186
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,040
Speaker 1: not licensed sonographers that can diagnose anything if you have

187
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 1: an abnormality in your pregnancy, or even tell how far

188
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,839
Speaker 1: along you are. Um, it's just sort of to get

189
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: you to see this image and have that emotional moment

190
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 1: of potentially hearing a heartbeat. Um. It's there's really not

191
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 1: a lot of medical merit to the ultrasounds that some

192
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: of these centers might be doing, but that doesn't stop

193
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 1: them from I think there's sevent of crisis pregnancy centers

194
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 1: own an ultrasound machine. Yeah, and I was reading accounts

195
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,680
Speaker 1: from women who have been and said that, um, there's

196
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: a lot of stress of like oh mommy, you know,

197
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,320
Speaker 1: like already trying to make that make you feel that

198
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,680
Speaker 1: emotional connection. Definitely. One of the first things that happens

199
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 1: if you walk into the crisis pregnancy center that I

200
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 1: was spending time with in Jonesboro is you get ushered

201
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 1: into a counseling room where you it with one of

202
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 1: the counselors and talk about your concerns about your pregnancy,

203
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,320
Speaker 1: and they will hand you a little baby hat that

204
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: has been hand knit by one of the church volunteers

205
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: and have you hold it and touch it and sort

206
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 1: of get a sense for the warm, fuzzy relationship that

207
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: you might be able to have with your baby. You know,

208
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: it's it's definitely an emotional appeal. Wow. So let's go

209
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 1: further along with that for a second. Um, say I'm

210
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: a woman and I walk into one of these CPCSE

211
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 1: Crisis Pegnancy center. What can I expect? What will happen? Um? Well,

212
00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 1: it depends. If you're going to one of these older

213
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:39,440
Speaker 1: school places, you might see over religious symbol you might

214
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,720
Speaker 1: see crosses on the wall and biblical music playing in

215
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,040
Speaker 1: the lobby. You'll definitely see a lot of pamphlets in

216
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,320
Speaker 1: the waiting room telling you about questionable things like post

217
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 1: abortion trauma syndrome or the link between breast cancer and abortion. Um,

218
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,679
Speaker 1: these very misleading literature. If in one of these more

219
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: medicalized places, it might be indistinguishable from a medical clinic,

220
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 1: you might see a sonographer wandering around in scrubs. You know,

221
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,679
Speaker 1: you might not see any religious symbolism at all. Um,

222
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,720
Speaker 1: So it really depends. It's it's not always clear. Yeah,

223
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 1: and that is probably the biggest criticism of these facilities

224
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 1: is that they do mislead and they provide false information

225
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 1: and then try to pass themselves off as a legitimate

226
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: medical facility or a clinic. Um. Do you have any

227
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,920
Speaker 1: specific examples around that. I know you mentioned like kind

228
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 1: of not well supported medical claim shall we say, but

229
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,440
Speaker 1: any other examples like that? Um? Yeah, Well it was interesting.

230
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 1: A lot of the people I tried to interview for

231
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 1: this piece conducted themselves as though they were medical professionals,

232
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: and some of them actually were, and they said they

233
00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,959
Speaker 1: couldn't talk to me because of hipp a privacy. Interesting,

234
00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,280
Speaker 1: so they're kind of entering this really interesting gray area

235
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 1: between are you a medical clinic subject to those kind

236
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,800
Speaker 1: of regulations? Are not? Um? Misleading medical claims? Yeah? I

237
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,080
Speaker 1: mean the literature was full of um things that that

238
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,600
Speaker 1: have just been proven to be false. There was pamphlets

239
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: in the lobby that imply that a fetus can feel

240
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: pain as early as six weeks. There's there's no medical

241
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,640
Speaker 1: evidence to support that. Um. There are pamphlets around the

242
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,680
Speaker 1: link between abortion and breast cancer that's kind of harped

243
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 1: on a lot in the anti abortion community. There's no

244
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,800
Speaker 1: evidence for that. I mentioned before post abortion trauma syndrome.

245
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 1: No evidence for that either, so answer your question or

246
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: an um I I also found examples of depression, drug abuse,

247
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,240
Speaker 1: increased chance of future miscarriage and or infertility, And yeah,

248
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 1: none of that is supported by research. Um Heartbeat International

249
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 1: has these suggested scripts. That's one of the things that

250
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 1: from there is of suicidal behaviors may be attributed to abortion.

251
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 1: So things like that, Yeah, definitely, And and what's interesting

252
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,440
Speaker 1: is there's some um, you know, within these circles, there

253
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,840
Speaker 1: are some people who tour the church circuit kind of

254
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: giving talks about the abortion they almost had or the

255
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: abortion they did have and how guilty they felt about it.

256
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 1: So um, there's there's definitely conversation around it within the

257
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 1: CPC community that it's not just if you've had an abortion,

258
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: you're a sinner. You know, a lot of times it's

259
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,160
Speaker 1: embracing people who have had previous abortions and trying to

260
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 1: get them, um to to make a different decision by

261
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: telling these stories of how rough it's been for these

262
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:53,640
Speaker 1: other women. And um I also read just to go

263
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 1: back to this sort of misleading aspect of it is

264
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,800
Speaker 1: that they might make you wait hours for pregnancy test

265
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 1: which six minutes UM, so that they can they have

266
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: more time to give you this information, and they might

267
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 1: ask questions like, was there a loving Christian boyfriend who

268
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: would make a great dad? Um? Did I have a

269
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 1: kind do I have kind? Supportive parents would be excited

270
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,200
Speaker 1: by the idea of a grandchild? Yeah? Yeah, I noticed.

271
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: There definitely seemed to be a lot of effort to

272
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 1: get the men involved in these decisions, to get these

273
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 1: fathers to come in UM and have counseling themselves. There's

274
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,520
Speaker 1: a big program that a lot of these pregnancy centers

275
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: offer which is called Earn While You Learn, where basically,

276
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 1: if they've talked to you out of having an abortion,

277
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 1: you have a baby, you can come in UM for

278
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 1: an hour on a Tuesday night watch these DVDs about

279
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 1: parenting and some of them have sort of decent information

280
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: and some of them are really out there. UM, and

281
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 1: you watch these DVDs, you do these little homework worksheets,

282
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 1: and you earn baby bucks and you can earn mommy

283
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 1: Bucks and Daddy buck and you redeem these for onesies

284
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: and car seats and baby wipes and things that you

285
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 1: need if you're a new mom. Um, so there's definitely

286
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: an attempt to open the the whole community, right And

287
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 1: like you were saying earlier, Um, from the outside, they

288
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: do appear frequently, um like they're just a medical clinic,

289
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,919
Speaker 1: and a lot of them will purposefully use like the

290
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 1: same fonts are last planned, parenthoed or something, which is

291
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard not to see that as misleading.

292
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,119
Speaker 1: In all they frequently also used choice or choose in

293
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,439
Speaker 1: their name. Um, So it's easy to see how you

294
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 1: might be especially if they're next to each other. You

295
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 1: might just go into the wrong one or not the

296
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,439
Speaker 1: one that you intended to go to. Yeah, And I

297
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,240
Speaker 1: think something that probably happens more frequently is not the

298
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: textbook scenario that you're thinking of where a woman just

299
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 1: knows she wants an abortion and wanders in this place.

300
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,719
Speaker 1: It's people who are a lot more conflicted, people who

301
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of information. Um. And you know,

302
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,120
Speaker 1: people who need baby wipes and so you know, they

303
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: come to this pregnancy center and and do these courses

304
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 1: and that's just what they're doing. Um. Yeah, it's the

305
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 1: choice language is used a lot. We're trying to get

306
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,120
Speaker 1: women to make a better choice. We have a little

307
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:27,640
Speaker 1: bit more for your listeners, but first we're gonna pause

308
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 1: for a quick bike for word from responses and we're back.

309
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. UM. I found a quote from Abby Johnson,

310
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 1: who is an anti abortion activist. We want to appear

311
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 1: neutral on the outside. The best called the best clients

312
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,600
Speaker 1: you ever get is one that thinks they're walking into

313
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,199
Speaker 1: an abortion clinic. Yeah. Yeah. And also a lot of

314
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 1: them have been used of doing delaying tactics. UM, so

315
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: that you miss the legal window for an abortion. Are

316
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 1: that maybe by the time you arrive at the decision, No,

317
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,119
Speaker 1: I do want an abortion, it's more complicated and more expensive.

318
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 1: Maybe you can't afford it anymore. Um. Some of them

319
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: might say that you can wait and see if you miscarry.

320
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,880
Speaker 1: There's definitely a lot of emphasis placed on on miscarriage,

321
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,240
Speaker 1: how how common it is, and you know, you read

322
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: some of these pamphlets and you go it's almost like

323
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: just pray it away kind of thing, like there's um yeah,

324
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: I found I was surprised by that that the prevalence

325
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 1: of the information on miscarriage almost like if if God

326
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,920
Speaker 1: wants this pregnancy to go away, you know, there's this avenue.

327
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 1: Were you able to ask the individual staff about those

328
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 1: types of literature why miscarriage is so emphasized. They you know,

329
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: they are young women and they're getting these pamphlets from

330
00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: this centralized organization UM that's coordinating all this several levels

331
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 1: above their head. So when we talked about medical information,

332
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, I would say, do you talk to these

333
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 1: women about miscarriage? Did you talk to them about maternal mortality?

334
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, black women, maternal mortality rates are crazy in

335
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 1: this country and in the South especially UM. And you know,

336
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: they said, we're not talctors. We don't. That's not that's

337
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: not what we do. And that's kind of the rub, right,

338
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 1: that's the crux of the situation, the manipulative tactics like, well,

339
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 1: we can't tell you medical stuff, but we can tell

340
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 1: you morality stuff. Is really easy. This part is easy,

341
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: right right. Another thing that I imagine a lot of

342
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 1: people listening won't find surprising, But let's talk about contraception

343
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: for UM. Did you find that there was any kind

344
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: of literature or something about contraception not in the center

345
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: that I spent time in UM. And when I asked

346
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: about that, you know, it's commonly said, if you really

347
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,640
Speaker 1: want to duce abortion. Give everybody condoms. You know, when

348
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: the more contraception there is, the more widely available, abortions

349
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 1: go down, right, And their view was, aren't condoms plentiful

350
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: everywhere else? Like it's like you could go outside and

351
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,000
Speaker 1: its reigning condoms or something. It wasn't their job, that's

352
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 1: not what they're doing. Um. And they can, you know,

353
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: people who want contraception can find it everywhere, but not here. Okay,

354
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: I remember, I can't remember. I think her name was Betty,

355
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 1: but she she's involved in this a lot. And she

356
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,479
Speaker 1: said that she thought condoms don't work like the time

357
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: or it was some number that was very, very large,

358
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: and the person said, I'm pretty sure they're ninety percent effective,

359
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: and she was like, no, I don't think so. Um.

360
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: There was an undercover investigation into fifty five of Ohio

361
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,959
Speaker 1: CPCs and it found that none offered birth control and

362
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 1: they overwhelmingly pushed abstinence. Um. In fact, a popular used

363
00:21:54,440 --> 00:22:00,160
Speaker 1: CPC manual says, never counsel for contraception. UM. So yeah,

364
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,959
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it does make sense in a

365
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: weird way that they wouldn't if it's not their thing.

366
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: But also at the same time, it seems maybe it

367
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: should be part of their thing. I don't know. It's

368
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot about the reproductive rights conversation that doesn't make

369
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. I mean, it's kind of like

370
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: everything else. It's not about preventative, never about preventative. Yes,

371
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 1: take away from the episode, but also I found that, um,

372
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: a lot of CPCs are encouraged to tell women that

373
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: birth control causes hair loss, breast cancer, weight game headaches,

374
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 1: and memory loss, and that condoms are quote ineffective at

375
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 1: preventing pregnancy. It's almost like they're encouraging people to get

376
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: pregnant and have the baby, and have the baby, but

377
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: not help them after that baby is one or two,

378
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: maybe even then, not even before then. The centers I

379
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: spoke with took a lot of pride in in the

380
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 1: baby closets, you know, and all the things they give

381
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: to new mothers, and that was evidence that you know,

382
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: they do care about these fetuses outside of you know,

383
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 1: or these babies once they're out in the world. Um,

384
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,919
Speaker 1: but you're right, it doesn't it doesn't extend past a

385
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: couple of years. And it's questionable whether that method is

386
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: is actually helping women or if it's you know, Andrea Schwartzendreber,

387
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: who I spoke with from my piece, says, you know,

388
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 1: you might some people might call that coercive if you're

389
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: making people will come in and watch biblical DVDs before

390
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: giving them baby wipes which cost you dollars. You know,

391
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: it sounds like it has to they have to earn

392
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 1: their way through something that they were being encouraged and

393
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: or most forcefubly made to do. You have to earn

394
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: to actually provide after the fact, right, And I think

395
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: this brings us to you A big question is are

396
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 1: they illegal? They certainly seem to be or proliferating at

397
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: a great pace. But yeah, it's it's a very interesting

398
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: time to be watching what's going on in the courts.

399
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, California issued a ruling that

400
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy centers were required to post information in the

401
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: lobby saying that they don't provide abortion services and and

402
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: listing the location of a nearby UM center where where

403
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: women could find those kinds of services. And um that

404
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,959
Speaker 1: was struck down by the Supreme Court. Um Clarence Thomas

405
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 1: I think wrote the opinion, and they said, no, it's

406
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: an infringement on freedom of speech to make someone do that.

407
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: So um, but it'll be interesting to watch as they

408
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: as these centers become more and more medicalized, if they're

409
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: going to be subject to the kind of regulation that

410
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: medical clinics are are subject to. Absolutely, And and that

411
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: decision that you just mentioned that was like this is happening.

412
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: It was last summer, Yeah, it's happening now. Um And

413
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: so far like up until now, they stop just short

414
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: of being a medical provider on purpose, so they aren't

415
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: subject to regulations, they aren't subject to hippo, which is

416
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: why I found so interesting you said you mentioned that earlier,

417
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: which means that the INFA and gathered it's not confidential. Um.

418
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: One that Dakota law requires that women go to a

419
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: CPC before getting an abortion, and I believe it's being

420
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: challenged right now. And that's definitely the direction that it's

421
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: moving in Georgia too. There's there's state money in Georgia

422
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: that goes toward trying to steer women into one of

423
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: these pregnancy alternative centers um as they're trying to make

424
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: decisions about what to do with their pregnancy. Um. There

425
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 1: was I was reading the like privacy statement of one

426
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: of these more misleading medical centers, and it was very

427
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: concerning what they do with the information that they gather,

428
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, in these very vulnerable counseling sessions. I'll have

429
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: to look it up and I can send it to you.

430
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: But there was a language like staff can use the

431
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: information that you tell us privately and share it with

432
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: your family, your pastor whoever we deem you know, important

433
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: to know this information. That's right thing. And that's already

434
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: the back and forth with the fact that with young

435
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: girls who are pregnant and allow like telling and reporting

436
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: to the parents, which could be another problematic issue about well,

437
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: how far does hippah cover a minor and why why

438
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: why are we not talking about that as more of

439
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: a this is an issue if you really truly believe

440
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: in hippa and privacy, they should cover all. But at

441
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: the same time it's not. It's kind of a I

442
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: can choose once again. Yeah, um, And going back to

443
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 1: the funding, do you know, like, where is the funding

444
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: coming from? How much funding are we talking about? This

445
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: was the most fascinating part of my research. Um. I

446
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: was expecting a lot of funding would be private through

447
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: churches and you know, individuals who really feel passionately about

448
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: this issue. I was surprised to find out how much

449
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: funding is coming from your paycheck and my paycheck. Um.

450
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: A lot of these crisis pregnancy centers get federal funding

451
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: for teaching abstinence only sex education. And we talked a

452
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: little bit about the state funding. In Georgia, a new

453
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: bill was recently passed. I think it was two million

454
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: dollars is going to crisis pregnancy centers, including some of

455
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: these worst offenders that are most misleading on their website. UM.

456
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: Texas I think a few years ago committed five million

457
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: dollars to crisis pregnancy centers. It's since up to that

458
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: investment to forty million dollars over five years. And uh,

459
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: my favorite, at your local d m V you can

460
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: go in and buy a Choose Life license plate and

461
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: a portion of those proceeds benefit crisis pregnancy centers. Wow. Yeah,

462
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: and I believe it's it's thirty two states in Washington,

463
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 1: d C. Have those Choose Life last night checks. Ye. Wow. Okay,

464
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: Well that's not infuriating at all. Um. Something else that

465
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure won't be infuriating at all. Who do you

466
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: think this impacts the most? So the center I visited

467
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 1: was in Jonesboro, UM, which is half an hour outside

468
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: of Atlanta. It's a very it's a pretty low income community.

469
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: I think a third of the households are on food stamps. UM.

470
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: So this is impacting people who don't have other options

471
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: available in their area. UM, low income women, Black women, who,

472
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, are suffering from well already insanely high

473
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: maternal mortality rates. So it's it's it's impacting the most vulnerable.

474
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: Can you speak to the history of these at all? Yeah,

475
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: I was surprised to learn that Chrysis pregnancy centers are

476
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: even older than Roe versus Wade UM. But they've been

477
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: around for a long time. So Robert Pearson's considered the

478
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: founding father of crisis pregnancy centers. The first one was

479
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: opened in nineteen sixty seven in Hawaii. Yeah, and UM.

480
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: After that, two years later he founded the Pearson found

481
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: Asian which is based in St. Louis, and the goal

482
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: was to assist local groups with setting up cbcs, and

483
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: they provide things like pamphlets, discounted video equipment, and slide

484
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: shows like the twenty seven minute long Caring includes many

485
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: pictures of bloody fetuses and waist cans and one of

486
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: a gurning carrying a woman who was apparently dead and

487
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: is covered by a sheet that ends by comparing abortion

488
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: to the final solution. And that's from Crisis Pregnancy Center. Watch.

489
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: There's a lot of that kind of language, um, and

490
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of people talking about even

491
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: framing it as sort of a racial justice issue what

492
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: they're doing, because if they're trying to lower rates of

493
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: abortion among black women, it's as if, you know, because

494
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: they're they're trying to fight this this genocide of I

495
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what the reasoning is, but it's definitely

496
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: framed as almost like a human rights issue what they're doing, right, Yeah,

497
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: I mean they already we were talking about this during

498
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: the abortion I don't know if we actually said it,

499
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: but they're calling it in fanside abortion. It's kind of

500
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: like that's completely misleading in every way. Um, and what

501
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about and what we're talking about with rights

502
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: in general. Yeah, And as I've mentioned many many times

503
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: on the show, I come from a really small town

504
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: in Georgia. UM. And I in eighth grade, I was

505
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: on the debate team, and I was like me and

506
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: one other kid were liberal and everyone else's conservative, so

507
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: it's always us on the other side. And when abortion

508
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: that was the debate, the issue. I just remember on

509
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: the other side, they showed slideshows of all these babies

510
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: in like dumpsters and trash cans, and then me and

511
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: my partner had to go up and we were like, well,

512
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: that's terrible. Know what he's saying. This is good, but

513
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: also this issarially was right, and again like it's all

514
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: about the misleading like uh, feedomon ring that continues to

515
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: happen every day in any type of political agenda, like

516
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 1: the best way to get to people who don't truly

517
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: know it's to cost fear. Well, yeah, and like you

518
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: said that, a lot of times it is someone whose

519
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: way ring and isn't sure. And if you come in

520
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: and watch a video like that, I'm sure it's very effective.

521
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: And even if just to have to say afterwards, like

522
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: me and eighth grade, it didn't change how it felt,

523
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: but I certainly felt worse at voice what I thought

524
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: after it. Again, when people make the term murdering babies

525
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: your murderer, how do you argue with that, I mean,

526
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: we really can't. Yeah, I love I love killing baby,

527
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: let's do this. That's gonna be somebody's gonna pull that,

528
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: I know, but you know, that's that's the whole mentality.

529
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: And I know with a lot of the pregnacy resource

530
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: centers actually the ones that I've seen because with me

531
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: working in the state level UM, they do wear scrubs

532
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: and I think one or two of them are not

533
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: necessarily nurses but their assistance so they're in the field

534
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: but not quite the same guidelines of education wise. I

535
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: saw a lot of UM nursing students and scenographers who

536
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: are getting their practical experience doing an internship at a

537
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy center. It's recognized and that's kind of how

538
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: they get away with being medical. I guess UM in

539
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: their conversations, and again, this is one of those things

540
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: that causes a lot of guilt and young frightened people

541
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: who are pregnant, who are in a place where they're

542
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: not sure what to do, so they use tactics such

543
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: as guilt and fear and um empathy in every way

544
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: to try to persuade someone. One thing that's that struck

545
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: me about some of the folks I met whose staff

546
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: these centers is they really are warm, open, genuine people

547
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: who seem to care. These are really like motherly figures

548
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: that you see that people are reaching out for, because

549
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: I've seen that as well. They come and touch you

550
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: and hug on you a little bit and tell you

551
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: everything's gonna be okay, and oftentimes we'll be like, let

552
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: me pray with you, even though that might not be

553
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: a thing of the center, but they want to make

554
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: it so personal for you, as if they understand you

555
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: and your well being, and to be fair, maybe they

556
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: do because they're that passionate. But of course it comes

557
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: very one sided, Um, without an understanding of what this

558
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: could be the fallout in the future. Yeah, I think

559
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: I read another account from someone who went to a

560
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy center. I think she might have been an

561
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: undercover person. But in either case, the person she the

562
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: nurse if it was at nurse, but whoever she met

563
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,239
Speaker 1: at the crisis pregnancy center followed up with her for

564
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: two months, like called her on the phone, was you know,

565
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: just checking out, how are you? How are things? I

566
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: got to know her, So, Yeah, they're they're very personable,

567
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: it seems generally, UM. But to go back to the

568
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: history for a second, Um and Pierson, he wrote a

569
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 1: widely accepted and used pamphlet outlining tactics to use to

570
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: deceive women like He was pretty open about it, and

571
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: then in n he said, obviously we're fighting Satan. A

572
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: killer who in this case is the girl who wants

573
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: to kill her baby, has no right to information that

574
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: will help her kill her baby. Therefore, when she calls

575
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: and says do you do abortions, we do not tell

576
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: her no, we don't do abortions. So I can imagine

577
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: if you truly believe that in it, it feels like

578
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: you're fighting Satan. It's pretty powerful messaging. I think these

579
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: people are definitely convinced that they're doing the right thing.

580
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, Again, when we were talking about feminism in itself,

581
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: one of the big reasons people hate that word. Again,

582
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: one of the big reasons that I had fights with

583
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: my family is because feminism equals abortion d the story

584
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: an abortion means murder and you care nothing about the baby.

585
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: That's that's the whole picture for them. There's nothing else

586
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,320
Speaker 1: to that, even though obviously it's the very broad subject.

587
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what this fearmongering has become. Is they're

588
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: trying and would take away life Yeah, and they've been

589
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: very effective about it. Um. We have a little bit

590
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: more to discuss, but first we're going to pause for

591
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: one more quick break for work from our sponsors, and

592
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you, Sposish. And one of the ways

593
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: that they've gotten more effective, and you kind of touch

594
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: on this, is that there's this old school and new school. Um,

595
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: they've modernized, they've come into the twentieth century. You wrote

596
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: about a conference that was recently held in Atlanta that

597
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: was to make sure that CPCs are operating the most

598
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: effectively and these are modern times. Can you talk a

599
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: little bit about that. Yeah, there were so many interesting

600
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 1: workshops that they were about people who came together staffers

601
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: from crisis pregnancy centers around the country, UM, to sort

602
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: of learn new best practices for their industry and how

603
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: to stay competitive in this shifting landscape where you know,

604
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: there's billboards that's another era now people who are what

605
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: they call abortion minded or often what's the first thing

606
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: you do? You google? You know, abortion clinic in my area?

607
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: So how do you reach those people? Let's you know,

608
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: there was a workshop on Google AdWords and how to

609
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: utilize that to get people to your website, How to

610
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: write a compelling landing page for your website? How do

611
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: use Facebook? Um, you know, they're definitely trying to stay

612
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: on the cutting edge of how people are searching for

613
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: information around abortion and make sure they're meeting their target

614
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: person there right, Yeah, I remember that. Um when that

615
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: came out that if you type in abortion, probably one

616
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: of the top three results is going to be at

617
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: crisis pregnancy center because they did buy those like keywords. Um,

618
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: so there, they've gotten pretty good at that as well. Um,

619
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: as we as we wrap up, or what do you think?

620
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: Why is this worth talking about? And what can and

621
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: should be done? If anything? You know, it's interesting. Um,

622
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm from California, and so I think my understanding of

623
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: the world and how things should be is is very

624
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: colored by the you know, being from the coast and

625
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: you know, relatively affluent state where you know you can

626
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: an abortion, you just go get one or you know.

627
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I moved to the South that

628
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: I realized how different things look in different parts of

629
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: the country. Um. You know the fact that there are

630
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: only nine abortion providers in Georgia and nine d crisis

631
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: pregnancy centers. That's not choice, that's not options. Um. And

632
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:47,959
Speaker 1: so I don't know the curtailing of access to fair, unbiased,

633
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: truthful information about what options are available to you if

634
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: you find yourself pregnant and you're not sure that that's

635
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 1: the that's the direction you want to go. Uh, that's

636
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: paramount and those right especially in places like Georgia, are

637
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: being eroded. It's it's less and less easy to find

638
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: information that women need, truly need. Um. So Yeah, I mean,

639
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: I think with this coordinated effort that we're seeing in

640
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: states across the South and the Midwest passing near total

641
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: abortion bands, it might go up to the Supreme Court.

642
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: Who you know, ro versus weight is legitimately in danger um. Yeah,

643
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,800
Speaker 1: this is a very real issue that's going to impact

644
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: millions of women. Yeah. And um, like we said in

645
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: our episode, on our recent episode on abortion, it's dangerous. Um.

646
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: There there have been many cases of women's lives being

647
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: endangered or and or um the fetus or child because

648
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: they didn't get accurate information. Are they thought they were

649
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: going to a hospital hospital, but they were going to

650
00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 1: a Catholic hospital. Um. So it just seems trans parent,

651
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: transparency and knowing the facts when it comes to this

652
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 1: like you have said very dangerous thing in our country,

653
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: that is having a baby? What would you say to

654
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 1: look for those who are actually googling and we know

655
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 1: there's these tricks, and I know we kind of already

656
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: touched on a little bit of the things that might

657
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: be missing. What would you say for those who are

658
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: researching now UM and looking things up while they do

659
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: have access some of the key things that should look

660
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,120
Speaker 1: out for to show what is legitimately a choice site

661
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: or choice center as opposed to one of these UM

662
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: Christian basin ors that's not outright Christian? What would you say?

663
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: There are two links that maybe we could put in

664
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 1: the show notes or something UM that are super helpful.

665
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 1: One of them is that map that Andrea schwarzen Gerber

666
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: put together of all the crisis pregnancy centers across the

667
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: United States. If there's if you've identified a clinic and

668
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: you're not sure, cross reference it with that map and

669
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: you'll be able to at least see what you might

670
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: be able to expect when you go to one of

671
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: these places. UM. There's also there's a National Abortion Providers

672
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: Center that lists UM affiliated abortion providers in each state,

673
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: And so if you want to make sure that you're

674
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 1: going to a place that is not, um, you know,

675
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: opposed to providing information and services around abortion. You can

676
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: UM look it up there. Awesome. Thank you so much

677
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: for joining us. Are there any projects that you're working

678
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: on that you want to shout out while you're here,

679
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: Things that you have done where people can find you,

680
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: anything like that. Um, people can find me on my

681
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: website maa craft dot com if they want to. I

682
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: don't know. I write on a wide range of subjects,

683
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: so it's not all it's not all reproductive health. Maybe

684
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: not shout out anything but awesome stuff. Nonetheless, we talked

685
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: about all kinds of things on this show, so go

686
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: check that out if you would like listeners, UM, thanks again,

687
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: and if you would like to email, as you can

688
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 1: or email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at i art

689
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: media dot com. It's new email, but all new emails

690
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: sent to the old email arrived to the new career.

691
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: We are professionals. UM. You can also find us on

692
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff I Never Told You and on Twitter

693
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: app Mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks to our super producer Andrew Howard,

694
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: Play to be, Thanks again to my crossing, and thanks

695
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Thank you, Stuff I've never told

696
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: you the production of I Heart Radios how stuff works.

697
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio vi is at

698
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you

699
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,