1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget Todd, 3 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: and this is there are no girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: As a woman of a certain age, I've gotten to 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: my fair share of weddings over the years. I'm also 6 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: getting married myself, or at least I was until COVID 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: and now who even knows. But that means I have 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: seen no fewer than a dozen wedding websites listing outdated 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: wedding cliches to avoid things like serving drinks in Mason jars, 10 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: which I'm sorry to say, I still think it's kind 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: of charming, A sort of a five thousand married adults 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: by the Wedding Inbox found that certain old fashioned wedding 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: traditions are now falling out of favor in our evolving world. 14 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: Take the expectation that a bride's dad will always pick 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: up the tab. Not only is this totally heteronormative, but 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: it's also a norm that a lot of people do 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: not stick to anymore. Today, more than four out of 18 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: ten couples share the cost of weddings between both families, 19 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: and take throwing rice at the happy couple after the ceremony. 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: Even though Snopes found the whole birds, eat rice and 21 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: die thing as a myth, rice can be annoying to 22 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: clean up. So now many couples have turned alternatives like 23 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: blowing bubbles. So, just like anything else, wedding traditions evolved 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: over the years, which brings me to one wedding element 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: that definitely needs to be left in the past, and 26 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: that is the plantation wedding. I know what you might 27 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: be thinking, who would actually want to have a wedding 28 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: on a plantation a side of brutalization and torture of 29 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: black enslaved people. But I'm from the South and I 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: can tell you it happens. A list celebrities, Blake Lively 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: and Ryan Reynolds had their two thousand and twelve wedding 32 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: at Boone Plantation in South Carolina, the filming location for 33 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: the film The Notebook. It was also the site where, 34 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: according to one record, eight five enslaved black people were 35 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: brutalized while being forced to harvest cotton, pecans and producing brick. 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Here's an upbeat tour video from the website Southern Weekend. 37 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: It also has breathtaking grounds, which are a popular wedding venue. 38 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: And it features a truly spectacular home built in the 39 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties. I mean they could have at least put 40 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: the music in a minor key right now. At the time, 41 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds their wedding got so much 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: positive press for being romantic and beautiful. Blake Lively and 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: Ryan Reynold's married where the notebook was filmed. Us Magazine gushed. 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: People Magazine's headline added at the couple tied the knot 45 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: in a super romantic location, but now the couple regrets it. 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: They've since had another ceremony and donated money to the 47 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: a CP. It's impossible to reconcile. What we saw at 48 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: the time was a wedding venue on Pinterest. What we 49 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: saw after was a place built on devastating tragedy. Ryan 50 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: Minnold said in an interview, it's no surprise the couple 51 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: say they fell in love with the venue on Pinterest. 52 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: For most people, the first step in planning a wedding 53 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: is searching websites like Pinterest, Zola, and Wedding Wire, and 54 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: up until last year, these sites allowed plantations to be 55 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: advertised on their platforms as charming in nostalgic landmarks of 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: a genteel, bygone era instead of somber reminders of the 57 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: brutality of slavery. That is, until the civil rights organization 58 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: Color of Change stepped in. They worked with popular wedding 59 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: platforms like Pinterest, The Not and Wedding Wire to develop 60 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: new guidelines to stop the promotion of wedding content that 61 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: romanticizes former slave plantations. And this fits squarely within Color 62 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: of Changes understanding that part of making change involves sparking 63 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: cultural shifts in people's minds, in this case, getting them 64 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: to stop thinking about slavery from a white centered lens. 65 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: It's worked that Jade to spend her entire young adult 66 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: life getting ready for My name is Jade Magnus Ogenaki. 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: I'm the senior director of the Media, Culture and Economic 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: Justice team at Color of Change. So how does one 69 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: get a job that involves getting wedding websites to rethink plantations? First? 70 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: I went to Howard University UM, which is, you know, 71 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: sort of like hogbed for discussions around political activism and 72 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: black identity. I went to Howard UM, and you know, 73 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: I was at Howard during what I call like the 74 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: Black youth movement of the tent. You know, this is 75 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: when Trayvon Martin was killed. It was such a big 76 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: turning point for so many of us UM. And this 77 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: is when you have organizations like I P one hundred 78 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: and Dream Defenders UM UH coming to the forefront UM. 79 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: And so I was a founding member of BYP one 80 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: hundred UM. I think, I don't know. I was a 81 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: junior in college, or maybe the summer between my junior 82 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: and senior year UM. And immediately after UM, I wanted 83 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: to get an organizing job. And you know, quite a 84 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: few people that I respected UM had worked in the 85 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: labor movement UM. And so I went to go work 86 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: in labor organizing low wage workers for two years UM, 87 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: which was you know, the best sort of education that 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: you can get UM and the strongest organizing training possible UM. 89 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: And you know, I was getting married at the end 90 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: of those two years. And with labor you're required to 91 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: do such a lot of travel UM. And so I 92 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: was looking for a job that didn't require as much 93 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,559 Speaker 1: travel UM and had a friend who worked at Color 94 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: of Change. It happened to be UM sort of interviewing 95 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: at the same time I was looking for a job, 96 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: and it fell into place. UM. I started Entry Local 97 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: a Color of Change four years ago, UM as a 98 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: campaign manager, and I've been here ever since. So you 99 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: mentioned getting married earlier. That was one of the reasons 100 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: why I wanted to talk to you. I happen to 101 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: know from social media that you had a big, beautiful 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: wedding not that long ago. Congratulations. Uh did you use 103 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: wedding planning websites like Zola and Pinterest And what was 104 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,799 Speaker 1: that experience like for you planning your wedding. I got 105 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: engaged and married actually quite young for the current modern 106 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: era that we're in now, UM, And so yeah, I 107 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: was totally overwhelmed. You know, first of all, I was 108 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: quite you know, I didn't have a lot of money 109 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: when I was planning my wedding, and so you know, 110 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: you're looking at all of these wedding websites, buying all 111 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: the magazines, listening to all the podcast you know about 112 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: how to plan a wedding. UM. And you know, actually, 113 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: during this sort of wedding planning was the first time 114 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: I'd ever heard of a plantation wedding. UM. I'm from 115 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. We don't have relics to American slavery in 116 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: the same way that you might have and like the 117 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: South or the East. Um. And I went to college 118 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: in d C, so you know, they're not a ton 119 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: of plantations in d C, although there are some and 120 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: you know the sort of broader DMB area. Um. Yeah, 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: that was sort of the first time I had ever 122 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: kind of seen the plantation weddings thing, and I thought 123 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: it was just, you know, above all super duper weird. Um. 124 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: But I know now that it's sort of like a 125 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: it's a cultural touch dome for a lot of people 126 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: in the South. So yeah, I grew up in the South. 127 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: I'm from Virginia and I've never attended a wedding on 128 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: a plantation, but I definitely bedn't been invited to them. Um. 129 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: I do think there's this sort of unstated norm that, 130 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: like you, if you're from the health what like, it's 131 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: a thing that happens. I think that people don't really 132 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: question it that much. It's just kind of becomes part 133 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: of Southern culture and it becomes one of those things 134 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: that people don't kind of making themselves ask any kind 135 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: of critical questions about it, be critical of because it's 136 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: just part of being raised in the South. It shouldn't 137 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: be terribly surprising that when some people think of plantations, 138 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: they think of romantic tree line paths, elegant porches, and hey, 139 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: this would be a great place for a wedding. We've 140 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: removed these sites so far from their actual histories and 141 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: the legacies of the enslaved people who lived and died there, 142 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of people in the South grow up 143 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: not really thinking critically about the legacy of slavery and 144 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: the way it's built into the landscape in the South. 145 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: Visiting my parents in Virginia involves a drive down a 146 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: highway still named after Jefferson Davis, the former president of 147 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: the Confederacy, and to get to my high school, I 148 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: drove down Monument Avenue every single day, line with statutes 149 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: of Confederate soldiers like Roberty Lee and Stonewall Jackson, and 150 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: I never even really have to think about it. Until 151 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: I was an adult, I learned about a sanitized, friendly 152 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: version of slavery and the Civil War. And I'm not kidding. 153 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: Our elementary school even had Civil War Day every year 154 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: for all the kids would either dress out as Confederate 155 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: or Union soldiers and recreate a march on the schoolyard. 156 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: Now j grew up across the country in California, and 157 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: she grew up learning about the missions outpost built by 158 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: Spain and California in the late seventeen hundreds where Indigenous 159 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: people were forcibly relocated from their traditional homes in the 160 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: name of colonialism and Christianity. In California, we have like 161 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: missions which who are essentially like torture sites for Native 162 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: American in genious people. Right, And like in school you 163 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: go and visit the missions in third grade in Los 164 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: Angeles Unified School District? Do you build a mission? Right? 165 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: So there are all of these sorts of ways that um, 166 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: human atrocities, UM like slavery are sort of built into 167 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: our culture, built into our psyche, and you know they're 168 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: so um normalized that it's you know, you don't think 169 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: about it all because just something you've grown up with. Yeah, 170 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: it's it's really really interesting. So tell me more about 171 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: how the idea to get wedding websites to stop romance 172 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: assassin plantations became a reality. Yeah. So I had just 173 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: come back I had a baby in what years at 174 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: nineteen and so just come back from maternity leave, um, 175 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: and was talking to some colleagues. Uh, one of our researchers, 176 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: Issha Ramana John UM. You know, I was talking about 177 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: at shared an article I think about plantation weddings UM, 178 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: and so she was, you know, she was like, you 179 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: know what if we targeted you know, obviously this is 180 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: something that's not right. You know what if we targeted 181 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: UM wedding planners UM. And so you know, thinking about 182 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: like sort of the strategy or you know, for like 183 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: how we can really affect change. Right, It's like we 184 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: could target wedding planners UM. But there's not necessarily like 185 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: a wedding planners association, you know, that's like mandatory for 186 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: wedding parters to you know, be a part of in 187 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: order to plan weddings. From my own experience planning a wedding, 188 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: I knew that sort of like the big engines in 189 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: wedding wedding planning UM, where these like UM platforms, a 190 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: lot of them started as magazines, print publications and then 191 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: transitioned to UM to online digital publications UM. And so 192 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: I sort of I knew already, you know, the big 193 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: ones I knew then. I knew Wedding Wire, I knew 194 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: Zola who had you know, begun doing this like um uh, 195 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: quite visible publicity campaign on the New York subways at 196 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: the exact same time as this is happening about how 197 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: they're sort of like a non traditional modern wedding platform 198 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: um Martha Stewart's Weddings Brides. And so I was like, 199 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: I love the idea around plantation weddings, especially because this 200 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: is something that you know, we talked about in black 201 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: community all the time. I'm sure if you search plantation weddings, 202 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: you know on Twitter for the past ten years, there's 203 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: been sort of like cyclical conversations about them like how 204 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: crazy is this? Why is this allowed? Etcetera. Um, And 205 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: so I was like, I brought together Easha and I 206 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: brought together our campaign manager at the time, a Monty Brown, 207 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: and was like, let's sit down and let's target these 208 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: wedding website platforms. And they are the ones to go 209 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: after because they're the ones, you know, curating this vision 210 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: and this aesthetic around what a wedding should be. Implantations 211 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: are largely a really really big part of that aesthetic. 212 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: And you know, the more we sort of went into 213 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 1: the research, you know, the darker it kind of became. Um. 214 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, that's sort of how I got started. We 215 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: you know what, we we sent out letters to all 216 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: of the platforms are just named. Um. Two of them 217 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: got back to us, uh, the not On Wedding Choir 218 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: and Pinterest and so you know, I think the first 219 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: meeting we had was with Pinterest, with Ifoma Zelma, who 220 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: is an incredible She used to be at Pinterest and 221 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: you know they treated her and other black employees really poorly, 222 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: and you know she left quite publicly this year, um um. 223 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: And if Fomo, you know, was just such a champion 224 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: of this cause you know, she was like, as a 225 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: black woman, I you know, it's not just about my job, 226 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: It's about like what is important for my reputation and 227 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: ethics and this is not okay. It's not okay that 228 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: we pushed this sort of plantation aesthetic on the platform. 229 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: And so what they did was they removed keywords. Um, 230 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: you were unable to search a list of plantation related 231 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: key words. And then we met with the Knot and 232 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: Wedding Wire and you know that was a longer set 233 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: of conversations. Um uh. But you know we also came 234 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: to sort of uh an agreement which we developed some 235 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: guidelines around what was able to be put on the website, 236 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: so you know, they agree to no longer feature um, 237 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: you know they'll do like listicles or features of weddings. 238 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: They would no longer do original content featuring plantation weddings, 239 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: which I thought was you know, a big deal. And 240 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: the second piece that they did, which I thought was 241 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: really really important, was they went they had a team 242 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: who went through the directory and sort of cold descriptions. 243 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: You know, they removed words like antebellum, they removed towards 244 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: um that sort of played on the history of slavery. 245 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, they're probably the most disturbing part of this 246 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: whole thing is that what we found was that, um, 247 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: it's not only that uh, slavery was a part of 248 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: this sort of project, right, It's like and some of 249 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: the cabins they would advertise slave cabins that had been 250 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: there since the sevent hundreds, And to me, I'm just like, so, 251 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: why on earth would you want to get married, you know, 252 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: next to places where people were beaten and abused and 253 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: tortured and enslaved and sexually assaulted. Jade's team found that 254 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: wedding websites used terms like romantic, charming and elegant to 255 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: describe plantations, but obviously any romantization of plantation life, it's 256 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: just artifice to make it seem more charming and less 257 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: like a torture site, and even weirder, like a copy 258 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: of something that never really existed in the first place. 259 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: Some wedding venues in the South were built well after 260 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: slavery ended, but we're designed to look like plantations and 261 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: call themselves plantations even though they were never actually working plantations. 262 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: What do you gain from calling your wedding venue that 263 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: never housed enslaved people a plantation? And what exactly are 264 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: you trying to capitalize on by using that word to 265 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: sell your venue to prospective couples. BOBBYA. Sorrow owned Southern 266 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: Oaks Plantation in New Orleans East. It has never been 267 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: a real plantation, built only in the sixties to look 268 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: like one. The lighting, the pillows, the sofas, We did 269 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: all of that to give it a more updated look. 270 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: It just goes to show how deeply the marketing around 271 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: the fantasy of plantations and slavery as symbols of nostalgia 272 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: and elegance is intertwined with the American South. What we 273 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: found was there were quite a few venue who actually 274 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: had never taken part. There had never been you know, 275 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: enslaved people on the grounds. But they were also marketing 276 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: this plantation fantasy, which you know, I hadn't realized was 277 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: such a big part of so many American psyche And 278 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: it's this idea that you know, in the Antebello himself 279 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: for the Civil War when black people were enslaved, this 280 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: was a great time of gentility and grace, right, And 281 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: so that is the aesthetic that these wedding website platforms 282 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: were playing on, and that you know, so many people 283 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: plan um weddings around. For me, when I hear about 284 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, pre Civil War, I think of pain, I 285 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: think of great I think of abuse, I think of torture. Um. 286 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: But for a lot of people, that's not what they 287 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: think of. They think of a better time um. And 288 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: so that part and that piece was you know, it 289 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: was quite jarring to realize that, you know, a lot 290 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: of what these plantations were doing was they were marketing 291 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: slavery um as sort of a draw for a romantic 292 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: place to get married. Um. Immediately after, you know, we 293 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: had an exclusive with buzz Feed that came out around 294 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: uh the NA and wedding Wire and pinterest. You know, 295 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: making these big changes would have been so interesting. Was 296 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: that you know, we sent when we initially sent a 297 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: letter to Zola, for example, we had sent a list 298 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: of examples, UM. And so I had just happened to 299 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: be checking up on the website, you know, just one 300 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: evening and went to Zola's website and they had pulled 301 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: all of the mentions of plantations from the website, but 302 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: they hadn't replied to us at all. And you know, 303 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: that was a problem for a couple of reasons. The 304 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: number one thing is that we're actually not interested at 305 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: color and a color of change and people sort of 306 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: just like pulling things and you know, doing like quick fixes. 307 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: We want people to make commitments and change policies and 308 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: rules moving forward. So yeah, it's great that you couldn't 309 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: search plantation at the time that I was on Zola's website. 310 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: But the problem actually is is that you know, there's 311 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: no policy around it moving forward. So if someone puts 312 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: if a plantation, then you put something up the next 313 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: day it could be featured. UM. And as I said earlier, 314 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: I had was taking the subway to work every day 315 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: and noticing that Zola had these all of these ads 316 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: about how they were so progressive and modern and a 317 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, a wedding platform for a new sort of partners, 318 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: and yet they were totally you know, they were totally 319 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: unwilling to make you know, they were unwilling to respond 320 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: to us um and make these sort of policy changes, 321 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: which is just you know, a way that things are. 322 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: You know, companies are so incongruent in marketing and the 323 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: actual policies that they enact. Um. And so when the 324 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: BuzzFeed article came out, so I said, yes, we're not 325 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: taking anything down. You know, we're not making any policies. 326 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: You know, we agree that this is you know, we 327 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: agree that people should be able to put up whatever 328 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: they want. A couple hours later, the New York Times 329 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: in an article around it, and then that few hours 330 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: zola Um made a commitment in the New York Times 331 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: article to no longer feature them. So you know, that 332 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: was sort of a full circle moment. Brides and Martha 333 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: Stewart's weddings also made these commitments as well, um to 334 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: you know, when the articles came out to no longer 335 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: future plantation weddings content. So that was a big deal. 336 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: You know, it was a really meaningful moment. It's interesting 337 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: to see that it took that kind of high profile 338 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: public pressure. That's originally they were sort of not responsive, 339 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: but in the New York Times right to that they 340 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: seem to have changed there too pretty quickly. You know. 341 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: It just shows you know, what we've seen, I think 342 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: even since the George Floyd protests, is that outward communications 343 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: are one thing. What a corporation puts out to the 344 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: world is one thing, and what they do behind the 345 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: scenes with their own employees with the content that they 346 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: push out is a totally different thing. You know, we 347 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: saw so many corporations, you know. Color of Change also 348 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: has a sort of camp ub called Beyond the Statement, 349 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: which is about how we've seen so many corporations say, oh, 350 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: black lives not all right. But you know, when you 351 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: look at their companies, they're paying their low wage workers 352 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: who are disproportionately black, you know, ten dollars an hour. 353 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: It just doesn't add up, you know. And so for 354 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: you know, the plantation, weddings content um as well as 355 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: just beyond the statement stuff. It's important that black people 356 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: matter in life um as much as they matter in death. 357 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: You know, it's important that um our ancestors um the 358 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: pain and the torture that they went through is respected, 359 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: you know, And that was a big piece of this 360 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: plantation weddings campaign is that these are sacred sites. These 361 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: are sites where human atrocities took place. Planting more trees 362 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: and you know, pointing to the beautiful architecture does not 363 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: change the fact that these are places. There's not like 364 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: slavery just happened there. They have put the plantations were 365 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: built to how slavery. You know, it's very intentional what 366 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: was happening. Let's take a quick break center back wedding websites. 367 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: Not romanticizing plantations may seem like a small change, but 368 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: sometimes a small concrete action can lead to a wider, 369 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: more meaningful cultural shift and individual people's attitudes. And even 370 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: if you've never really thought about why having a wedding 371 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: on a plantation is a a great idea, platforms like Pinterest, 372 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: not romanticizing plantation weddings can create a larger shift and 373 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: how everyone thinks about slavery and the way it shows 374 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: up in our culture. This is not new work for 375 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: Color of Change. In addition to more traditional activism around 376 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: social change, they also work to create change using popular 377 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: culture in the wake of protest around police killings. For instance, 378 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: they work to have television shows that glorify policing as 379 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: an entertainment device, like Cops and Life p D taken 380 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: off the air. You mentioned some of the other work 381 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: that Color of Change is involved in, and I like that. 382 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: In addition to sort of some of the more traditional 383 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: things that we think of in terms of demanding accountability, 384 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: Color of Change also tries to create change through leading 385 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: on these cultural things. So you know, like the plantation weddings. 386 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: I guess why is that so important in conjunction with 387 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: some of the more traditional ways that you might think 388 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 1: of as getting justice. Um, also pushing forward these cultural 389 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: changes and getting people to sort of rethink their own 390 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: attitudes around how they understand and that you know, deal 391 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: with black black both. Yeah. You know, culture is a 392 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: really really big piece of of Color of Changes in work. 393 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: It always has been, you know, from us sort of 394 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: like getting Glen Beck, um, getting Glenbeck Show advertisers to 395 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: pull out years ago to you know, our work this 396 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: year to get Cops in Live p D off the air. Um. 397 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: The culture work is is really important and you know, 398 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: black people, uh, we are you know, the culture creators 399 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: in this country, right, Um, And I you know, I 400 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: really view our culture work as like not only uplifting 401 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: and centering and claiming black culture, which we do through 402 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: a lot in our like Hollywood work and our storytelling work, 403 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: but it's also about supplanting like the white centered cultural 404 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: symbols that really harm us. You know. Um, I'm sure 405 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: so many of you know this like plantation weddings thing 406 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: leads into like such a larger problem, right, which is 407 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: the way that slavery is taught in schools and the 408 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: ways that people think about it. I mean, we had 409 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: a few years ago, um, a textbook company you know, 410 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: put out a textbook that said slavery is was essentially 411 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: like compared to being an intern. Right. And so because um, 412 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: the true stripe slavery has been neutralized in so many ways. Um. 413 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: You know, I think if people were really new in 414 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: detail the sort of things that happened on plantations outside 415 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: of like you know, maybe viewing twelve years a slave, 416 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: you know, we're seeing glory, I think they would really 417 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: think twice about revering these sorts of symbols, you know. Um. Yeah, 418 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: it's the cultural work is incredibly important because UM, culture 419 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: shapes policy. Right. And you know, we see the movement 420 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: of the past ten years, you know, as I said, 421 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: the Black youth movement, UM. Um, we see how over time, 422 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, black organizers and black groups shifted the culture 423 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: where you know, you're and it's it is no longer 424 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: contraver or should say black lives matter, right, you couldn't 425 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: say that though, in it was quite a controversial thing 426 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: to say. UM. And so we see that culture like 427 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: you know, prime the environment UM for you know, the 428 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: policies and changes that need to happen. UM. And you know, 429 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: culture work is also it's important. And you know material, 430 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, the work that affects the material conditions also 431 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: matters a whole lot too. UM. And what I love 432 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: about CC is it's not one of the other. We're 433 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: definitely concerned with both and moving campaigns on both on 434 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: both uh, in both areas. Definitely. Do you feel that 435 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: the work that you did getting these wedding websites touch 436 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: touch changes the way they talk about slavery was a successful, um, 437 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: a successful example of that kind of cultural shift that 438 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: you're describing. Yeah, And you know, I think it's also 439 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: what's so important about having you know, black leaders, you know, 440 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: at a at a powerful organization. You know, black organizations 441 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: really matter, UM. And this is something that we took 442 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: up because we knew how important it was. We you know, 443 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: so many of us maybe have been invited to a 444 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: wedding UM or you know, or been on a plantation 445 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: tour as a child, you know, in school and sort 446 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: of felt deeply uncomfortable with the ways that our ancestors 447 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: were disrespected UM and the pain and the torture that 448 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: they went through was not respected UM. And so yeah, 449 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: I think it was an incredibly meaningful moment. Did the 450 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: website who changed their policies around plantations faced any kind 451 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: of criticism or blowback. One of the most interesting things, 452 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: honestly that I found was that, you know, there was 453 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: quite a bit you know, I think a lot of 454 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: people love to play the devil's advocate and sort of 455 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: comments on articles and things. But when we were talking 456 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: to the not in Wedding wire UMU the following January. 457 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: This all happened in November. So talking to them the 458 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: following January, I asked, have you have you all received 459 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: any like blowback or criticism? They said none at all. Right, 460 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: So this none no one has said anything wrong. We 461 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: haven't had our inbolx. You know, no one's anything in 462 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: our inbox. It has been a decision that people like 463 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: totally agree makes sense um. And so for me that 464 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: was such like a validating moment um. You know, for 465 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: a lot of corporations, don't you know, they make or 466 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: don't make decisions um based on perceived what people what 467 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: will people say? Right, and you know, they have this 468 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: idea in their minds sort of the same way that 469 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: you know, UH, candidates for office had this idea in 470 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: their mind of like the standard American right, which is 471 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: you know, an extremely white conservative person um, when the 472 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is that you know, people have 473 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: diversity of thought. The past ten years has shifted the 474 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: way that people think um around issues of justice, and 475 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: in such a large way that you know, this was 476 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: sort of a needed next step more than you know, 477 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: an earth shaking you know, Brown versus Board of Education decision. 478 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: So I read a lot of angry comments saying that 479 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: you all were trying to have plantations destroyed or burned 480 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: down or closed, and there's really no truth in that 481 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: literal only we never said that, you know, like that's 482 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: me was the most shocking thing. I'm like, oh my gosh, 483 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: Like we we literally didn't say anything to plantations at all. 484 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: We're not trying to. You know. What we have found 485 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: through talking to quite a few black historians and curiators 486 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: who actually work on these plantations is what we really 487 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: need is for federal and state governments to invest money 488 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 1: um in these plantations and and keep them as like museums. Right, 489 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: they need to be designated as designated as historical places 490 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: and places of note, and so they can get funding 491 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: so that they can be kept open. What we want 492 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: is for people to hear the actual history of what happened. 493 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: What we don't want is someone uh dancing a baby 494 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: got back on the grave of it. It's like, you know, 495 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: that's what But we want these we want plantations to 496 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: stay open as as memorials to the pain and suffering 497 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: that that the American people in the American government, Black Americans. 498 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: That is what we want more after Okay, right, let's 499 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: get right back to it. So how should we think 500 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: about plantations still standing today? Jade says. Part of the 501 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: process involves reimagining our current understanding of how plantations are 502 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: used and the role they should play in our culture 503 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: going forward, and some plantations are doing that kind of 504 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: work already. At Belle Mead Plantation in Nashville, tour guide 505 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: Bridget Jones realized the tour focused mostly on wineries and 506 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: the lavish weddings that took place there, so she left 507 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: her job, went to grad school to get a master's degree, 508 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: and became the plantations first ever director of African American Studies. 509 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: She now works to uncover never before seeing histories of 510 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: the plantation and incorporates them into the plantations stores. Once 511 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: I got promoted, I was like, this is the moment 512 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,479 Speaker 1: for the snarrative the slaves to really come to the 513 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: full for it now an abs and of the kind 514 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: of government funding Jade was describing earlier, a few plantations 515 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: still need to do weddings and events to make money 516 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: to fund the kind of turation work that Bridget Jones 517 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: does a bell Mead. There are a lot of black 518 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: historians on plantations who are doing really really incredible work. UM. 519 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: But what we, like I said, what we found from 520 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: talking to them is that UM, in order to pay 521 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: their salaries, a lot of time they the plantations do 522 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: have to be open for events right, and so um, 523 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: I would say that's in the minority, right, Like, not 524 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: every plantation is trying to do this, like you know, 525 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: incredible truth telling history. That's that's not the reality for 526 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: most of them, But there are a few where black 527 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: historians and curators are on the premises and maybe you know, 528 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: in order to to sort of keep the plantation open 529 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: forward to tell this true history, they do need to 530 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: have um, they need to have weddings in order to 531 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: bring in income. And this is why reimagining the role 532 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: that plantations plan our culture is so important right now, 533 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: plantations santata or at least compartmentalize the history of what 534 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: actually happened on plantations in order to appeal to couples 535 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: looking for a romantic wedding venue. And for a small 536 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: number of those plantations like Belle Meade, that money goes 537 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: into paying for curation that tells the truth about slavery. 538 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: But if we were able to designate and preserve plantations 539 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: as historical landmarks, they'd be funded as such, which means 540 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: they wouldn't need to rely on sanitizing the legacy of 541 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: slavery and the literal song of dance of the wedding 542 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: industry to stay open, we could have a real chance 543 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: at using plantations to properly educate people about and memorialize slavery. 544 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: The Whitney Plantation and Museum in Louisiana is the only 545 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: plantation in the state with an exclusive focus on the 546 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: lives of enslaved people. Here's their current founder, John Cummings. 547 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: You can't rewrite history, but we can correct some of 548 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: the evils of history, and the number one tool that 549 00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: we have education. They went viral the summer for a 550 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,959 Speaker 1: social media post explaining why they would never hold a wedding, writing, 551 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: our tour has always focused on the brutal labor and 552 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: stolen freedom of those that created vast economic wealth for 553 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: the enslaving families. We do not glamorize the big house 554 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: or the grounds. In addition to our mission to educate 555 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: visitors and the larger community about slavery and its legacies. 556 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: This is a site of memory and reference. So what 557 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: if that was the popular understanding of the role of 558 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: plantations in today's culture, Not whitewashing them and selling them 559 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: as romantic sites of a bygone era for happy couples, 560 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: but an actual place to memorialize and come to terms 561 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: with the true legacy of slavery until then, something we 562 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: can all do right now is spend time reflecting critically 563 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: about the ways the legacy of slavery shows up in 564 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: our culture and our lives. We saw a very famous couple, 565 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds. They had a wedding on 566 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: a plantation. They later apologized for it and donated money too, 567 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: I think the end of ACP and had a different, 568 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: smaller ceremony later on. What do you say to someone 569 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: who maybe had a plantation wedding, maybe they didn't think 570 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: about the implications of doing it. What's what is your like, 571 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: how should they be thinking about their wedding going forward 572 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: or what? What would you tell them? Well, first of all, 573 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: the thing that's so strange about the Blake light of 574 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: your Brian reynoldson is he's Canadian and she's from l A. 575 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: So really confused about like why they want to have 576 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: a wedding on a plantation. It's not a cultural touchdone 577 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: for either of them. Um. Um, that thing, that piece 578 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: has always really kind of disturbed me, Like need of 579 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: them have ties, you know, to plantations, So I thought 580 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: that was really weird. Um, you know, you know, and 581 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: I think reflecting on the experience and taking something away 582 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: from it is enough. You know. I don't think they 583 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: need to renounce their wedding or burn the photo books, right, Um. 584 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: But I think in general, um, transformative reflection. Reflection can 585 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: be really really transformative, and I think undergoing that process 586 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: is import it in I'm not gonna say, oh, now, 587 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: make a donation of color change you have the wedding 588 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: all planet. I mean, it would be nice, Uh, but 589 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: you know that that's not what we're looking for. We're looking, 590 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, we're looking for people to really look deeply 591 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: and look inward about the ways that they have you know, perpetuated, um, 592 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: the legacy of slavery, you know. And that is one way, 593 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: but there are plenty of other ways. Um. You know, 594 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: maybe you go to it, maybe your kid goes to 595 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: a high school where they seeing Dixie. You know, like, 596 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: these are the things to be reflecting on and looking 597 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: for other ways that the legacy of slavery shows up 598 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: in your life, um, in ways that maybe not may 599 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: not be respectful or reverential. When Blake Lively and Ryan 600 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: Reynolds first spoke out about their wedding with regret, I 601 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: have to admit I was a little skeptical. How could 602 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: they only now be realizing this wasn't a respectful thing 603 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: to do, I wondered. But honestly, it's never too late 604 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: for anyone to start thinking critically about the role slavery 605 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: place in our culture and history. Maybe as individuals, we 606 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: can't turn restill Standing Plantation into a site for respectful 607 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: education about slavery, but we can work to unpack our 608 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: own roles in honoring the legacy of enslaved people that 609 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: our country was built on. Got a story about an 610 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 1: interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi, 611 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: You can be just at Hello at tangodi dot com. 612 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangdi 613 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet was 614 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production of iHeart 615 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. 616 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato 617 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Tod. If 618 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us 619 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, check 620 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you 621 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.