WEBVTT - From the Vault: Hooves, Part 1

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome back to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a Vaald episode. It is Saturday, after all. This

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be the first of our two parter

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<v Speaker 1>on hooves. Yes, this is going to be Hoo's Part one,

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<v Speaker 1>which originally published six ' eight twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Enjoy Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production

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<v Speaker 2>of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Robert Lamb.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Joe McCormick, and today we are going to

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<v Speaker 3>begin a look at the hoof, the animal hoof, specifically

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<v Speaker 3>the horse hoof. Rob how did you get interested in this?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I was in New York last week with my family,

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<v Speaker 1>went to the American Natural History Museum, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>looking at fossils and bones, and I was captain by

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<v Speaker 1>some of the some of the bones of the horse

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<v Speaker 1>and started thinking about the hoof and just how strange

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<v Speaker 1>the hoof is. Yet yet at the same time, we

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<v Speaker 1>kind of take it for granted, because even if you

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<v Speaker 1>are not a person who lives among horses and cares

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<v Speaker 1>for horses, horses are everywhere in our imagery and our

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<v Speaker 1>iconography and our entertainment. You can scarcely be a video

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<v Speaker 1>game player at all without having mounted a horse or

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<v Speaker 1>lost a horse, or accidentally driven a horse off a

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<v Speaker 1>cliff or up a wall at some point. So I

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<v Speaker 1>was really taken by this, Like I had not really

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<v Speaker 1>in my life set aside any time to just consider

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<v Speaker 1>the utter weirdness of the horse hoof.

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<v Speaker 3>I almost feel like the weirdness of the horse hoof

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<v Speaker 3>is embodied in the sound of the horse galloping and

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<v Speaker 3>how different that is from the sound of the movement

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<v Speaker 3>and most other animals you'd think about.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, it's like the drumming of fingers on

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<v Speaker 1>a table, right, Like that's that's that's an attempting direction

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<v Speaker 1>to go in anyway. Yeah, I feel like it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>all too easy to take the hoof for granted, even

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<v Speaker 1>in literature. You know, I was thinking, well, we can,

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<v Speaker 1>we can kick off this episode with a nice little

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<v Speaker 1>quote or a little reading from something that kind of captures,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, our current level of fascination with the hoof,

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<v Speaker 1>But I really wasn't able to find much. Now again,

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<v Speaker 1>horses and hoofs are just throughout human literature. They're everywhere,

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<v Speaker 1>and there are you know a lot of literary references

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<v Speaker 1>to the to hooves and the sound of hooves. One

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<v Speaker 1>poem in particular, in particular that I found that I

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately didn't like well enough to feature in the Cold Open,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's still notable, is The Hoofs of the Horses

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<v Speaker 1>by William Henry Ogilvy, who lived eighteen sixty nine through

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty three. I don't know if you're familiar with

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<v Speaker 1>this poem, Joe, but it's just all about how much

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<v Speaker 1>you just absolutely love the cadence of horse hooves.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I was not familiar with this poem before you

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<v Speaker 3>did share it with me. It is it's an almost

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<v Speaker 3>comical level of appreciation for horse hooves, an attitude very

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<v Speaker 3>much of I'll stop thinking about the sound of horse

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<v Speaker 3>hooves when I'm dead, or maybe I won't when I'm dead.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll still dream of them even in the grave. It's

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<v Speaker 3>also it goes with the F plural. I looked it

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<v Speaker 3>up to see is there any difference hooves versus hoofs,

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<v Speaker 3>and it seems like no, I both have been used

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<v Speaker 3>in English. I think hoofs with the F plural is

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<v Speaker 3>more archaic.

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<v Speaker 1>Usually this is one of those poems that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes I read a really good rhyming poem with great cadence.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I'm like, why don't we rhyme our

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<v Speaker 1>poems anymore? You know, all poems should rhyme. This is great.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the opposite end of the spectrum for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Like this one's just kind of goofy, Like it starts

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<v Speaker 1>off the hoofs of the horses. Oh, witching and sweet

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<v Speaker 1>is the music Earth steals from the ironshod feet, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera. So it's not to my liking, but I

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<v Speaker 1>can understand where someone else might love it as much

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<v Speaker 1>as this man loved horse hoofs.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it also commits the ultimate sin of rhyming above

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<v Speaker 3>with love. That's you can't you can't come back from that.

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<v Speaker 1>But again, this is not the only account of hoofs

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<v Speaker 1>or mention of hoofs in literature. Shakespeare writes of horses

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<v Speaker 1>quote printing their proud hoofs in the Receiving Earth. Other

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<v Speaker 1>quotes speak of the violence of the hoof, a thing

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<v Speaker 1>that imprints the soil or even the flesh of those

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<v Speaker 1>fallen in war. Here's a bit from the Jackery, a

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<v Speaker 1>fragment by Sidney Lanier who lived eighteen forty two through

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<v Speaker 1>eighteen eighty one, midst of the crowd, Old Grisgrion, the maimed,

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<v Speaker 1>a wretched wreck that fate had floated out from the

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<v Speaker 1>deer storm of battle at Potchi. A living man whose

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<v Speaker 1>larger moiety was dead and buried on the battlefield, A

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<v Speaker 1>grizzly trunk, without arms or legs and scarred with hoof

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<v Speaker 1>cuts of or cheek and brow lay in his wicker cradle, smiling.

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<v Speaker 1>And then later on in the same scene, the protagonist

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<v Speaker 1>comments that quote, there is no face of man or

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<v Speaker 1>woman here, but showeth print of the hard hoof of war.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think that's fair. As much as we can

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<v Speaker 3>admire hoofs from afar, I don't think you want to

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<v Speaker 3>come into contact with one by way of force.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, absolutely you didn't absolutely do not want to

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<v Speaker 1>be kicked by a horse on one level, just for

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<v Speaker 1>sheer strength and power of said kick or or the

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<v Speaker 1>weight of said step. But also yeah, the hoof as well,

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<v Speaker 1>explain is it's not an instrument you want make in

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<v Speaker 1>contact with your body with force or speed. Now, there,

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<v Speaker 1>of course many references to the hoof and the works

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<v Speaker 1>of Cormick McCarthy, The none that I could remember or

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<v Speaker 1>search up that really goes in deep on the weirdness

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<v Speaker 1>and wonder of the horse hoof. Still, here's a favorite

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<v Speaker 1>from Blood Meridian quote under the hoof of the horses,

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<v Speaker 1>the alabaster sand shaped itself in whorls, strangely symmetric, like

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<v Speaker 1>iron filings in a field. And these shapes flared and

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<v Speaker 1>drew back again, resonating upon that harmonic ground, and then

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<v Speaker 1>turning to swirl away over the plaia, as if the

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<v Speaker 1>very sediment of things contained yet some residue of scentience,

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<v Speaker 1>as if in the transit of those riders were a

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<v Speaker 1>thing so profoundly terrible as to register even to the

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<v Speaker 1>uttermost granulation of reality. Wow. Yeah, so great line. But also,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Cormack doesn't result doesn't really go in hard

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<v Speaker 1>on just how weird it is that horses are strange

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<v Speaker 1>mammals running around on highly evolved like finger bones, Like

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<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a weirdness to the hoof that you

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<v Speaker 1>know that he doesn't he even doesn't get into because

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<v Speaker 1>it's just such a part of, say, the tapestry of

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<v Speaker 1>the American West. You know, in the case of his Westerns,

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<v Speaker 1>it's also possible that I'm forgetting some some key line

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<v Speaker 1>and another of his book, maybe the you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>All the Pretty Horses or one of its sequels. But nothing,

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<v Speaker 1>nothing came to mind or in search when I was

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about it just the other day.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, maybe here is an amazing place to start if

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<v Speaker 3>you want to consider the more granular anatomy of the

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<v Speaker 3>horse's foot and the hoof. So look look at your

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<v Speaker 3>hands there, you know, you get human hands and extend

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<v Speaker 3>the middle fingers on both of your hands. Obviously not

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<v Speaker 3>if you're.

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<v Speaker 1>In prospectible thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, in you know, discreetly extend those two middle fingers.

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<v Speaker 3>These are the analogous bone structures that evolved in the

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<v Speaker 3>horse to become the part of the horse's body that

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<v Speaker 3>makes contact with the ground. So when horses gallop, they

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<v Speaker 3>are galloping on adapted versions of your middle fingers. So

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<v Speaker 3>you just imagine run out that middle, your two middle

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<v Speaker 3>fingers in front, your two middle toes in the back.

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<v Speaker 3>Those got really thick, really strong. Everything else kind of

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<v Speaker 3>shrank back and receded in a way. We can talk

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<v Speaker 3>later on about whether it makes sense to say that

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<v Speaker 3>the horse still has those other fingers in some way

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<v Speaker 3>or not. But basically that the part of the leg

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<v Speaker 3>that is making contact with the ground and supporting the

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<v Speaker 3>weight of the horse is the middle finger.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is just absolutely bonkers when you stop and

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<v Speaker 1>think about.

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<v Speaker 3>It, it is. And the genus to which horses belong

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<v Speaker 3>is unique in this regard among the ungulates. So all

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<v Speaker 3>of the four legged vertebrates on earth that live on

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<v Speaker 3>land share a common ancestor that had five toes on

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<v Speaker 3>each foot had four legs and five toes on each foot.

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<v Speaker 3>That's our heritage, and we walk around on two legs now.

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<v Speaker 3>But we are still we're still part of that evolutionary lineage.

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<v Speaker 3>We still have five fingers on our hands and five

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<v Speaker 3>toes on our feet to show for it. But some

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<v Speaker 3>of our cousins in this lige have undergone more radical

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<v Speaker 3>transformations in the bone structure of these distal regions of

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<v Speaker 3>the limbs, the ends of each limb. Hippopotamuses, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>have four toes. Rhinoceroses and tapers have three toes. Camels, deer, sheep, goats,

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<v Speaker 3>and cattle have two toes. But there is only one

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<v Speaker 3>group of animals existing today that has evolved to have

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<v Speaker 3>a single toe that contacts the ground on each foot.

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<v Speaker 3>And that is horses, or more precisely, the evolutionary group

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<v Speaker 3>to which modern horses belong, which is the genus equus,

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<v Speaker 3>which includes horses, zebras, and donkeys. And the scientific term

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<v Speaker 3>for having only one toe is monodactyly. So these monodactyls

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<v Speaker 3>are out there running around on their middle fingers. That

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<v Speaker 3>when you hear hoof beats, that's what you're hearing, the

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<v Speaker 3>middle fingers.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, again, this is super weird and glorious,

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, it would be a mistake

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<v Speaker 1>to think of this as a kind of simplification, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because the horse hoof we'll be discussing here is anything,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's a complex structure composed of hard cornified structures,

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<v Speaker 1>living tissues, tendons, ligaments, and more. You know, they are

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<v Speaker 1>the various bones we're going to be discussing. We should,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, also not make the mistake of overestimating the

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<v Speaker 1>strength of the hoof, because yes, it's a highly evolved

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<v Speaker 1>anatomical feature that serves a horse very well in its

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<v Speaker 1>natural environment, but they are still susceptible to injury and illness,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, the ravages of aging plus domestication by

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<v Speaker 1>humans has of course augmented the horse's natural environment and

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<v Speaker 1>also changed the sort of regular wear and tear that

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<v Speaker 1>they might endure on set hoofs. So to just doing

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm gonna do is going to provide kind of

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<v Speaker 1>an overview of the different parts of the main outer

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<v Speaker 1>and inner parts of the horse hoof of the foot

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<v Speaker 1>of the horse. Not in a way that will just

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<v Speaker 1>completely bombard the listener with horse terminology, but hopefully get

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<v Speaker 1>across some of the complexity here. And if you are

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<v Speaker 1>a horse person, and I don't know, maybe you're listening

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<v Speaker 1>to this podcast whilst you attend to the hoofs of

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<v Speaker 1>a horse, well you might have some added information to

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<v Speaker 1>write into us about. If you're not a horse person,

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<v Speaker 1>then I think you might find some of the terminology

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<v Speaker 1>kind of surprising, I know, not being a horse person myself. There.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember the first time I read Cornick McCarthy's Blood Meridian,

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<v Speaker 1>there was there was a bit that really threw me

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<v Speaker 1>for a curve. It goes as follows. Quote he got

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<v Speaker 1>down and drew up the horse's leg. The frog of

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<v Speaker 1>the hoof was split and bloody, and the animal's shoulder quivered.

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<v Speaker 1>He let the hoof down the sun was about two

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<v Speaker 1>hours high, and now there was dust on the horizon.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good.

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<v Speaker 3>The frog of the hoof.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, the frog of the hoof. So the frog is

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<v Speaker 1>a is a key part of the outer anatomy of

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<v Speaker 1>the horse's foot. This is a wedge shaped mass on

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<v Speaker 1>the bottom of the horse's foot that you know, I

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<v Speaker 1>suppose kind of looks like a dark frog. According to

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<v Speaker 1>Robert C. McClure at all in a paper titled Functional

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<v Speaker 1>Anatomy of the horse Foot. This was for the University

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<v Speaker 1>of Missouri, the frog is one of the flexible parts

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<v Speaker 1>of the hoof's external structures. It normally makes contact with

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<v Speaker 1>the ground first and then it kind of like pushes

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<v Speaker 1>into the digital cushion, an internal mass of flexible material

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<v Speaker 1>above the frog that contributes to the formation of the

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<v Speaker 1>heels and serves as one of the primary shock absorbers

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<v Speaker 1>in the horse's foot.

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<v Speaker 3>This is an interesting balance to observe with the hoof

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<v Speaker 3>here in that it has a so the outer mass

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<v Speaker 3>of the hoof that you will have observed before, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the hard part is a hard carat in structure, and

0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.319
<v Speaker 3>yet the hoof also has to remain somewhat springy and flexible.

0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:03.760
<v Speaker 3>You don't want it to be like a piece of

0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.720
<v Speaker 3>concrete that might be really hard but insufficient impact, is

0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:08.840
<v Speaker 3>rigid and cracks.

0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, again, it would be a gross simplification to

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 1>think of a horse as just running around on like

0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 1>wooden stilt legs, you know, like that. Its hooves are

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.200
<v Speaker 1>just like solid things. It's a lot more complicated than that.

0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Now you might be wondering, well, why do they call

0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 1>it a frog? You may be looking it up to

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.240
<v Speaker 1>see just how much like a frog it, you know,

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.920
<v Speaker 1>to what degree it resembles a frog. I've seen it

0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of described a couple of different ways that either

0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.160
<v Speaker 1>it does roughly look like a frog, and that perhaps

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.960
<v Speaker 1>there's this added level of well, you find it under

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.560
<v Speaker 1>the hoof in the same way a frog might be

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 1>found under a rock or leaf. I don't know. Maybe

0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I've also heard that it really more accurately resembles the

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.200
<v Speaker 1>pelvic bone of a frog, which apparently was carried for

0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 1>good luck by horsemen. And this also might be tied

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.000
<v Speaker 1>to traditions of the horseshoe, which we're not going to

0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.080
<v Speaker 1>really discuss in this episode, but we may get to

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.800
<v Speaker 1>in a subsequent episode these of horseshoes as lucky charms

0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:09.280
<v Speaker 1>as well.

0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 3>Interesting. Okay, I just looked up the pelvic bone of

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 3>a frog. It kind of looks like the wishbone on

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 3>a chicken.

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I don't know.

0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 3>And I'm looking at the frog of a hoof Now

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 3>it's sort of V shaped. I mean, you have to

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 3>stretch your mind a little bit, but I could see that.

0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 1>Now the frog is apparently made up of the same

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 1>material as the hoof wall. More on what do we

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.400
<v Speaker 1>mean by hoofwall in the second, But you can think

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 1>of like the outer hoof as you see it, but

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>it's more moist a certainly if it's healthy, apparently something

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 1>like fifty percent moisture or thereabouts. Now, And that's not

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>to say that the hoof wall itself is dry. In fact,

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 1>the hoof wall or the proper hoof that you see

0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 1>if you're just looking at a picture of a horse,

0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.000
<v Speaker 1>it's in fact covered with material that prevents moisture loss.

0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.320
<v Speaker 1>And with domestic horses, hoof paint is sometimes added as

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>well to help contain moisture. So again, even the hardest

0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 1>part of the of the horses hoof cannot be really

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.000
<v Speaker 1>thought of as just this you know, like you rock,

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, hard substance like it's in these These are

0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, organic structures, and there is moisture to.

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.240
<v Speaker 3>Them, and with the keratin basis, I think you could

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.320
<v Speaker 3>probably think about it more akin to like a like

0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 3>a horn or like a thick fingernail exactly.

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, the frog, interestingly enough, is also a scent gland,

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 1>along with the chestnut of the leg and the airgut

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.840
<v Speaker 1>of the fetlock. This is one of the reasons that

0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>dogs can tract horses as well as they can. Plus

0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:38.880
<v Speaker 1>is apparently one of the ways that horses sniff out

0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.040
<v Speaker 1>each other in the field. I had no idea, Yeah,

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.200
<v Speaker 1>there's a hole, there's a whole just un right underneath

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.320
<v Speaker 1>the horse's hoof. There's a whole wonderland of weirdness. Well,

0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.520
<v Speaker 1>this is funny because we were just talking about beavers,

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.000
<v Speaker 1>which apparently, you know, their scent glands and scent markings

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.280
<v Speaker 1>play a big role in their their behavior and how

0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.400
<v Speaker 1>they interact with the environment. So, but I had no

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>idea that was true of horses. Yeah. Now, as we'll

0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.160
<v Speaker 1>discuss in a bit, horse hoofs, the hard part of

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 1>the hoof grows throughout their life and has to either

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 1>be worn down or trim down. This is where professional

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>farriers come into play with domestic horses, and not only

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.400
<v Speaker 1>do they have to trim the hoof proper, but they

0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>also have to trim the frog as it keeps growing

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 1>as well, and if not maintained, you can lead to

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 1>some infections conditions like thrush and so forth. I'm also

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>told by horse and dog people in my family that

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 1>dogs absolutely love it when their friendly neighborhood ferrier gives

0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:39.600
<v Speaker 1>them some hoof or some frog shavings to eat. Joe,

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>has this ever been your experience?

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 3>No, I never had a dog get this particular treat,

0:16:45.160 --> 0:17:00.760
<v Speaker 3>but I can imagine it's in the ballpark.

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 1>All right. So moving outward from the frog, it pushes

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 1>against the digital cushion, and when the foot is on

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.880
<v Speaker 1>the ground, the increase in pressure and change and shape

0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:06.520
<v Speaker 1>in the digital cushion and the frog. It kind of

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.679
<v Speaker 1>works everything like a pump forcing blood from the foot

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:14.200
<v Speaker 1>into the leg. And McLure stresses that quote exercise increases

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 1>the blood circulation in the foot and favors good hoof growth.

0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Lack of exercise dryness of the horny wall and poor

0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.520
<v Speaker 1>nutrition inhibit hoof growth. All right, So let's get to

0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.080
<v Speaker 1>that hoof wall. The hoof wall is exactly what it

0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.000
<v Speaker 1>sounds like. It's that tough, horny outside part of the

0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.680
<v Speaker 1>hoof that's essentially a fingernail. I mean, if we're comparing

0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 1>it to what we've got going on, it contains no blood,

0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 1>vessels or nerves, and it grows continuously, so it has

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.399
<v Speaker 1>to be worn or trimmed off. And to be specific,

0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 1>the hoof wall grows out of the cornet located at

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.199
<v Speaker 1>the junction of the skin and the hoof wall. So

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 1>if you're just looking at a picture of a horse's foot,

0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 1>like this is where hoof ends, and like you know,

0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 1>the hairy part of the leg begins now along with

0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:04.960
<v Speaker 1>the frog and the bar, which is part of the

0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:09.280
<v Speaker 1>wall aka bars of the wall bordering the frog. It's

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.000
<v Speaker 1>a key weight bearing part of the hoof. The wall

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.600
<v Speaker 1>is made up of the toe in the front, quarters

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.840
<v Speaker 1>on the sides, and the heel. Now the interior of

0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.680
<v Speaker 1>the hoof inside the hoof wall. You can almost think

0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.240
<v Speaker 1>of it as kind of like this little kind of

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:29.359
<v Speaker 1>U shaped walled city is the sole separated from the

0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 1>wall by the white line or the golden line where

0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.280
<v Speaker 1>the inner wall and the sole joined together. The sole

0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.200
<v Speaker 1>does not make contact with the ground and it primarily

0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.120
<v Speaker 1>protects the inner structures beneath it. So these are all,

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, things with the exception of the of the

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 1>digital cushion that we reference like, these are all things

0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 1>that you would see if you were a if you

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>were just attending to a horse's foot, if you you know,

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 1>we're checking out a horseshoe or what have you. Now, again,

0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.439
<v Speaker 1>the hoof of a complex structure, and I'm not going

0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.960
<v Speaker 1>to attempt to cover every detail of it. Instead, hopefully

0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.159
<v Speaker 1>we can cover the key parts of the intern out

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.720
<v Speaker 1>or hoof here and provide like a decent audio snapshot

0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:11.840
<v Speaker 1>of what it consists of. And I realize, even with

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.800
<v Speaker 1>all the terminology we're going through, it still might make

0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 1>sense to look up a diagram to see exactly what

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.760
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about. Now. Internally, it's of course essential to

0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:26.159
<v Speaker 1>cover the phalanxes and valanges, essentially the finger bones that

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 1>make up the hoof, and the first of these to

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 1>cover really is the famous coffin bone, which is also

0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:39.359
<v Speaker 1>known as the petal bone or the distal phalanx or

0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:44.280
<v Speaker 1>P three. It's contained in the hoof capsule and provides

0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.239
<v Speaker 1>its shape. It contains no bone marrow, but it has

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.399
<v Speaker 1>a lot of blood vessels. And the name apparently has

0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.040
<v Speaker 1>to do with the fact that it's entirely seated within

0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>the hoof wall, in the interior of the hoof, as

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 1>if it were positioned within a coffin. It does not

0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 1>look like a coffin per se.

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.480
<v Speaker 3>The fact that it seems to be positioned within a coffin,

0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:04.919
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't that make it the corpse bone rather than the

0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:06.719
<v Speaker 3>coffin bone or the cadaver bone.

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.679
<v Speaker 1>You would think, You would think, I don't know. I

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.399
<v Speaker 1>couldn't run down any additional information on where this comes

0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.800
<v Speaker 1>from other than just like you know, the built up

0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.439
<v Speaker 1>lingo of horse people over time. So if we have

0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:22.080
<v Speaker 1>horse people out there listening to the show that have

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.760
<v Speaker 1>more insight on this, certainly right end.

0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:25.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh, please be gentle.

0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Whether you're used to working with horses, of course they're

0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 1>gonna they're gonna be gentle. Okay. Now, more broadly, the

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.440
<v Speaker 1>pedal bone is the bottomost bone in the front and

0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:39.160
<v Speaker 1>rear legs of horses, cattle, pigs, and other ruminants. Then

0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:44.199
<v Speaker 1>there's the navicular bone, so named because it's shaped like

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.200
<v Speaker 1>a boat, and looking at images of it, at least

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>from the horse, I thought it also reminds me a

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.720
<v Speaker 1>bit of a whale's tail as well. But I'm to

0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:55.879
<v Speaker 1>understand it's named this because it looks kind of like

0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.600
<v Speaker 1>a boat. It's also known as the distal sesamoid bone.

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Most mammals have a navicular bone in their feet. Then

0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:08.080
<v Speaker 1>there's also the short pastern bone or middle phalanx. Its

0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.240
<v Speaker 1>positioned to top the articulating joint of the pedal bone,

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 1>with only the bottom portion extending to the hoof capsule,

0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:18.480
<v Speaker 1>essentially a fingerbone. So I don't know to what extent

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:23.720
<v Speaker 1>all of that accurately conveyed the complexity and the beauty

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.359
<v Speaker 1>of a horse's hoof, of a horse's foot, but I guess,

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 1>if anything, it should remind you like the horse hoof,

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.280
<v Speaker 1>easy to draw, but far more complicated than you might think.

0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, another way to look at it is like if

0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.959
<v Speaker 3>you look up a diagram of the bones in the

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 3>horse's hoof, it's not just like a straight bone down

0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:46.119
<v Speaker 3>to the ground ending in a nail. There are actually

0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.320
<v Speaker 3>a lot of bones, little bones crammed up in there,

0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:50.960
<v Speaker 3>kind of in the same way that you would see

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.600
<v Speaker 3>a lot of little bones making up the human hand,

0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:56.360
<v Speaker 3>except in the case of a horse, it has been

0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:01.600
<v Speaker 3>streamlined into one more continuous vertical structure or column, with

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.080
<v Speaker 3>the different bones kind of supporting each other in that

0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.239
<v Speaker 3>column as opposed to in the hand the way these

0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.680
<v Speaker 3>bones are kind of fanned out. Yes, Now, Rob, before

0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.560
<v Speaker 3>we got recording today, you sent me a picture of

0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:19.679
<v Speaker 3>a famous horse from I was gonna say history, but

0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.719
<v Speaker 3>maybe better to say legend. The meeting point of legend

0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:27.840
<v Speaker 3>and history. That really revealed something to me, and it's

0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:31.879
<v Speaker 3>that there are certain features that are often quite surprising

0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 3>to discover, are really unsettling to find on an animal.

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 3>One example is if you see human teeth on a

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.919
<v Speaker 3>non human animal, like a cat with human teeth, somebody

0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 3>photoshops that together. It's horrifying. You don't want to see it,

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.239
<v Speaker 3>and it's kind of surprising how horrifying it is. And

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 3>I discovered a new one today when you shared this

0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 3>picture with me, and it is a horse with human feet.

0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:59.560
<v Speaker 3>Don't like it. Something's unpleasant about that. It's not a

0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:00.240
<v Speaker 3>good vibe.

0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is an engraving from sixteen eighty seven, attributed

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 1>to P. Trocial. You can look this image up. I'll

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.040
<v Speaker 1>have to share it on some of our socials or something,

0:23:12.080 --> 0:23:16.119
<v Speaker 1>because it's terrific and also a little bit horrifying because

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:19.800
<v Speaker 1>the fore feet of the horse are human feet or

0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:23.919
<v Speaker 1>something close to human feet, with clearly visible multiple toes,

0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:28.200
<v Speaker 1>like five human toes per foot. It does not make

0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:30.720
<v Speaker 1>sense to look at This does not seem like a

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 1>good variation on the equine form. You know, it's not like, oh,

0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 1>like a centaur where you can be like, well, it's

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:40.600
<v Speaker 1>like a horse and a rider as one. You know,

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:43.280
<v Speaker 1>you can run around, it can shoot arrows, that's great. Like, No,

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.480
<v Speaker 1>this is a situation where you're immediately thinking, shouldn't those

0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>front feet and they have shoes on or something? How

0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:52.080
<v Speaker 1>is this force going to gallop? All sorts of questions

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:53.080
<v Speaker 1>and problems emerge.

0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:55.920
<v Speaker 3>You're exactly right now, this is a cat with human teeth.

0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:58.119
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't look like it should work, and it doesn't

0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.200
<v Speaker 3>look nice. However, I will say other things about this horse,

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:02.800
<v Speaker 3>and I guess in a minute we'll have to reveal

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 3>what historical horse this is supposed to be. But first

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.600
<v Speaker 3>just allow me to describe this is a hair metal horse.

0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 3>It has a tail and a main that are luxurious, glorious,

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:20.200
<v Speaker 3>voluminous hair just waving in the wind. You can imagine

0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 3>this horse really getting down on a guitar solo, playing

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:27.880
<v Speaker 3>with striper or something. And then also this horse has

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:33.080
<v Speaker 3>it appears to me, forward facing eyes horses. I don't know,

0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:35.440
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't quite get the horse face right.

0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean the artist was already having to draw

0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:40.240
<v Speaker 1>those feet on this horse, so I think we can

0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:43.119
<v Speaker 1>forgive them if they maybe didn't put a maximum amount

0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:44.200
<v Speaker 1>of effort into the face.

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh I'm not holding a grudge against p Trocil here,

0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 3>but forward facing eyes implies that this horse is a

0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:55.199
<v Speaker 3>predatory carnivore, which makes me think it is one of

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:59.600
<v Speaker 3>the Diamedean mirrors or you know, the flesh eating mirrors

0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:00.639
<v Speaker 3>of ancient legend.

0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:03.520
<v Speaker 1>It made me think too, of the horse that Ucla

0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:06.439
<v Speaker 1>the Mock rides in Thunder of the Barbarian. If anyone

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:08.640
<v Speaker 1>remembers that old one Hanna Barbara cartoon.

0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:10.600
<v Speaker 3>I had to look that up. When you said it,

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:12.600
<v Speaker 3>I wasn't familiar. But that's like it's kind of a

0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 3>dinosaur insectoid, kind of horse.

0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a monster horse, you see, and especially sort of

0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 1>like some old timey sci fi and fantasy.

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:25.159
<v Speaker 3>But okay, what's the deal with this horse? Who is

0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:27.480
<v Speaker 3>this horse with human feet in the front.

0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:33.639
<v Speaker 1>This is none other than Julius Caesar's horse, sometimes referenced

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 1>by the name as Turkus or Astracus, But the horse's

0:25:38.640 --> 0:25:40.919
<v Speaker 1>actual name, whatever it might have been, seems to have

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:43.679
<v Speaker 1>mostly been lost to history. I don't know that it

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:47.359
<v Speaker 1>has a definite name. It's very much in the vein

0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:52.119
<v Speaker 1>in the tradition of say, Alexander the Great's horse Bucephalus.

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:56.760
<v Speaker 1>That one's, you know, a more famous horse that also

0:25:56.840 --> 0:25:59.199
<v Speaker 1>ties back in a bit. This also tends to be

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:04.000
<v Speaker 1>part of the general tradition in the Greco Roman culture

0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 1>of having like a great leader riding a great steed

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:11.399
<v Speaker 1>into battle that only they can mount, that is much loved,

0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:14.959
<v Speaker 1>that will of course eventually die and will be remembered

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.639
<v Speaker 1>and so forth. But also there's this idea of a

0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:21.600
<v Speaker 1>something strange about a horse. There's some sort of a

0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:26.160
<v Speaker 1>physical portent of future success or in some cases dire

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:29.719
<v Speaker 1>omens tied up in the strange anatomy of certain creatures,

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:33.560
<v Speaker 1>especially the horse. But anyway, So where does this come from,

0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:38.200
<v Speaker 1>this idea that there's this horse by, according to various sources,

0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:42.720
<v Speaker 1>that had human feet in the front, or it had

0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 1>some sort of toes in the front. I had a

0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:51.959
<v Speaker 1>time sort of trying to find any actual source on this,

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.560
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of it comes back to what the

0:26:55.840 --> 0:27:00.359
<v Speaker 1>Roman imperial historian Sutanius had to say about it. This

0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:03.760
<v Speaker 1>particular historian lived sixty nine through one twenty two CE.

0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Here's what he wrote. Quote, he rode a very remarkable horse,

0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:12.160
<v Speaker 1>with feet almost like those of a man, the hoofs

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:15.080
<v Speaker 1>being divided in such a manner as to have some

0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:19.520
<v Speaker 1>resemblance to toes. This horse he had bred himself, and

0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:23.639
<v Speaker 1>the soothsayers, having interpreted these circumstances into an omen that

0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 1>its owner would be master of the world. He brought

0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:30.240
<v Speaker 1>him up with particular care and broke him in himself,

0:27:30.600 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 1>as the horse would suffer no one else to mount him.

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:36.879
<v Speaker 1>A statue of the horse was afterwards erected by Caesar's

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 1>order before the temple of Venus Genetrix.

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:43.560
<v Speaker 3>Ah that would be the temple of the Venus of motherhood,

0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:46.240
<v Speaker 3>the Venus of the as the founder of the family.

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:48.719
<v Speaker 3>I wonder what that would have to do with the horse.

0:27:49.320 --> 0:27:51.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess maybe it has to do with with like

0:27:51.680 --> 0:27:53.760
<v Speaker 1>the rearing and the breaking of the horse, that he's

0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:55.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of like the mother of the horse. Maybe it

0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 1>means a female horse, And I'm not sure exactly why

0:27:59.560 --> 0:28:04.680
<v Speaker 1>that particular temple interesting. So anyway, some illustrations, as much

0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:08.439
<v Speaker 1>like the one we've discussed already, depict this as just

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:12.000
<v Speaker 1>a straight up monster horse with human feet in the front,

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:15.679
<v Speaker 1>which I love. But a more reasonable interpretation is that

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 1>this was a polydactyl horse, much in the same way

0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:20.720
<v Speaker 1>that you will occasionally find you you'll find, say, like

0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:25.320
<v Speaker 1>a polydactyl cat, or of course polydactyl digits in human

0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:29.840
<v Speaker 1>beings as well. I found an eighteen seventy nine paper

0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:34.000
<v Speaker 1>on the general topic of polydactyl horses by o'thaniel Charles

0:28:34.040 --> 0:28:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Marsh titled Polydactyl Horse's Recent and Extinct. He writes, quote,

0:28:38.920 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 1>numerous cases of extra digits in the horse have been recorded,

0:28:42.200 --> 0:28:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and in nearly all of them, a single lateral hooflet

0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 1>was present on one of the four legs. In most instances,

0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:52.760
<v Speaker 1>the occurrence was noted chiefly on account of its rarity

0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and no record was made of the exact position of

0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:58.120
<v Speaker 1>the extra hoofs with reference to the main digit, nor

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 1>the significance of these useless appendages.

0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, So the idea here would be that if

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:06.960
<v Speaker 3>there is anything to the story that Swetonius tells about

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:10.320
<v Speaker 3>Caesar's horse, it might be just that the horse did

0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:13.200
<v Speaker 3>actually have extra toes, not that it had feet that

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:15.840
<v Speaker 3>looked like a human's feet, but that it was a

0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 3>case of polydactylely in this horse exactly.

0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that seems to be like the more likely interpretation.

0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 1>It's also worth noting, I believe Marsh mentions this as well,

0:29:26.960 --> 0:29:30.600
<v Speaker 1>that some accounts may have indicated that Alexander the Great

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:35.480
<v Speaker 1>horse Bucephalus was also polydactyl, in which case, if that

0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.520
<v Speaker 1>was a you know, that was an idea already present

0:29:38.560 --> 0:29:42.320
<v Speaker 1>that would of course inform either the selection or interpretation

0:29:42.720 --> 0:29:46.520
<v Speaker 1>of a polydactyl horse for another great general. So you know,

0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 1>we have to take that into account as well. And

0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:51.200
<v Speaker 1>again this general idea that if there's something strange going

0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 1>on with a with an organism, there might be something

0:29:55.440 --> 0:30:00.120
<v Speaker 1>about it that is that is a beneficial importent for

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 1>the receiving individual. I believe we touched on one of

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 1>these stories regarding if not Caesar, another Roman emperor in

0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 1>pre in episodes over the last couple of years, and

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:12.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't think believe it was a horse. It was

0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:16.120
<v Speaker 1>some other animal that was brought before the general and said, hey,

0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 1>look at this weird creature and there everyone was like,

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>this is great. This means this means the campaign is

0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:22.520
<v Speaker 1>going well.

0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 3>Okay, folks, we just had to take a second to

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 3>dig this up because it was too good of a memory. No,

0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:30.320
<v Speaker 3>this was something from our goats episode, right that we

0:30:30.360 --> 0:30:31.400
<v Speaker 3>did last October.

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:36.440
<v Speaker 1>That's right, right, Yeah, this concerned a goat creature that

0:30:36.560 --> 0:30:40.880
<v Speaker 1>was brought to Sola, and it was I think the

0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:43.440
<v Speaker 1>main interpretation was like, yeah, this is great, this is

0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.280
<v Speaker 1>a this is an omen this means that we're going

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:49.240
<v Speaker 1>to be successful in the campaign.

0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:52.320
<v Speaker 3>It was like somebody found a half man, half goat

0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:54.680
<v Speaker 3>in a cave somewhere and then they're like, hey, look

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:55.040
<v Speaker 3>at this.

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it made horrible sounds, et cetera. So go back

0:30:58.040 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 1>and listen to that episode if you want the full

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.080
<v Speaker 1>story on that, and just goats in general. The cloven

0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:04.640
<v Speaker 1>hoof as opposed to the horse.

0:31:04.360 --> 0:31:07.280
<v Speaker 4>Hoof, that feeling when you find a goat man in

0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:26.080
<v Speaker 4>a cave, and you know everything's going to be all right.

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 2>All right.

0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, back to Marsh here, Marsh noted that and I

0:31:23.840 --> 0:31:25.920
<v Speaker 1>didn't look for other sources on this, but it kind

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 1>of casually. He mentions that the indigenous peoples of the

0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Americas were said to have described the horse when the

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Spanish arrived as the beast with one fingernail, which of

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:41.959
<v Speaker 1>course is rather correct as as we've been discussing. And

0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:44.000
<v Speaker 1>then Marsh goes on to point out that there are

0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:47.680
<v Speaker 1>two slender splint bones within the hoof, the remnants of

0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:52.280
<v Speaker 1>two other toes belonging to the ancestors of the modern horse. Now,

0:31:52.320 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Marsh points out a few other key facts that I

0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:57.840
<v Speaker 1>think are worth mentioning here. The fore, feet are the

0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.720
<v Speaker 1>most affected when you look at a eltse in the

0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:05.640
<v Speaker 1>records of polydactyl horses, it's almost always the four feet,

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 1>and of course this would match up with the story

0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:13.520
<v Speaker 1>of Caesar's horse. Also, the additional hooves or if you

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.239
<v Speaker 1>want to call them, toes, seem to generally amount to

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 1>one or two, so you're maybe looking at three toes

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:24.880
<v Speaker 1>maximum on a four on a front hoof, though it's

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:28.360
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily an equal amount on both four feet, so

0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:31.800
<v Speaker 1>like one there's a for instance, there's an account that

0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.840
<v Speaker 1>he points to where an animal had two hooves on

0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:37.640
<v Speaker 1>one and three on the other, so one extra on

0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>one four foot and two extra on the other four foot.

0:32:42.240 --> 0:32:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Some of the horses, and this is English. This is

0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:48.200
<v Speaker 1>not getting into you know, in any translations here, but

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:51.120
<v Speaker 1>in English, some of these were described as having eight

0:32:51.160 --> 0:32:54.480
<v Speaker 1>hooves or the like, thus counting all of the hoofs

0:32:54.520 --> 0:32:57.480
<v Speaker 1>on the animal. So this is just me. But I

0:32:57.520 --> 0:33:01.080
<v Speaker 1>can imagine first of all, a three toed four foot

0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>reminding one of a human foot, looking at it and

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:05.600
<v Speaker 1>being like, oh, it's kind of like toes. Look there

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:09.680
<v Speaker 1>are three of them. I can likewise imagine some manner

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:14.880
<v Speaker 1>of telephone game deviation occurring when describing a horse and saying, oh,

0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:17.560
<v Speaker 1>it had it had five toes. Well, what do you

0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:19.000
<v Speaker 1>mean by that? Do you mean that it just has

0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:22.160
<v Speaker 1>a single extra hooflet on one of its fore feet.

0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:25.240
<v Speaker 1>That would be a reasonable case, I think, based on

0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:27.480
<v Speaker 1>what I've been reading here. Or are you going to

0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:30.160
<v Speaker 1>interpret that as oh, well, that means it has five

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:34.400
<v Speaker 1>hoofs or five toes to a foot something that is

0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:37.440
<v Speaker 1>too extreme based on what I've been looking at.

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 3>I see what you mean. But like the statement about

0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:44.040
<v Speaker 3>having total across the animal could be interpreted as on

0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:45.600
<v Speaker 3>one one leg.

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, that's so that's anyway, that's that's me thinking

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:52.200
<v Speaker 1>about it. Marsh wasn't didn't discuss that idea, but it

0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 1>just has me wondering if that's the sort of thing

0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 1>that could be going on here as well. Now, there

0:33:56.360 --> 0:34:00.440
<v Speaker 1>are plenty of recent accounts of polydactyl horse hoofs and photos.

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Of course, you can do an image search and you

0:34:02.360 --> 0:34:07.080
<v Speaker 1>can find images of horses that have additional hoofs or

0:34:07.080 --> 0:34:09.399
<v Speaker 1>hooflits or toes or whatever you want to call them.

0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Most accounts I came across of in terms of like

0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:16.919
<v Speaker 1>veterinary literature, dealt with congenital abnormalities that were at least

0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:21.360
<v Speaker 1>in some cases surgically corrected. So yeah, this is I

0:34:21.360 --> 0:34:24.319
<v Speaker 1>guess in the horse world. These are rare enough to

0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:28.040
<v Speaker 1>be notable, but certainly not so rare that they're unknown,

0:34:29.080 --> 0:34:32.680
<v Speaker 1>so it's not beyond the realm of possibility. It seems

0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:37.560
<v Speaker 1>that yes, Caesar may have had a polydactyl horse, acquired

0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a polydactyl horse or it's also equally likely that this

0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:45.840
<v Speaker 1>is just all you know, legend building in order to

0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.839
<v Speaker 1>build up the case that hey, Caesar is a lot

0:34:49.880 --> 0:34:52.200
<v Speaker 1>like that guy Alexander the Great. Both of them rode

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.680
<v Speaker 1>around undeformed horses. Both of them were destined for greatness.

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:57.880
<v Speaker 3>Now, you mentioned a minute ago when you were citing

0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:02.480
<v Speaker 3>the paleontologist Othneil Charles Marsh that he had written that

0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:06.799
<v Speaker 3>horses have these little splint bones within the hoof, which

0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:11.919
<v Speaker 3>he attributed to being remnants of other toes that used

0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:15.880
<v Speaker 3>to belong to the ancestors of horses today. And it

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:19.440
<v Speaker 3>turns out that's actually onto something. Because I was reading

0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:21.880
<v Speaker 3>some stuff about the evolution of the horse hoof. This

0:35:21.920 --> 0:35:24.600
<v Speaker 3>is an interesting and broad topic that's going to have

0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:27.319
<v Speaker 3>to span into the next part in the series, but

0:35:27.520 --> 0:35:29.880
<v Speaker 3>just to introduce a bit of it here, I was

0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:32.480
<v Speaker 3>looking at an article in The New York Times called

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:36.600
<v Speaker 3>How Horses Got their hoofs by steph Ynn, published August

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:40.359
<v Speaker 3>twenty eighth, twenty seventeen. Now, this article is mainly responding

0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 3>to a journal article that was published in Proceedings of

0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:47.960
<v Speaker 3>the Royal Society b Biological Sciences in twenty seventeen by

0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:54.759
<v Speaker 3>authors Brianna K. Mchorse Good Research Focus There, Andrew A.

0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 3>Bee Winner, and Stephanie E. Pierce, and the paper is

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:02.959
<v Speaker 3>called Mechanics of Evolutionary digit Reduction in Fossil Horses meaning

0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:07.320
<v Speaker 3>the Biological family Equity. Now, what this journal article did

0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:11.960
<v Speaker 3>is it added some evidence to comment on the long

0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:16.360
<v Speaker 3>held hypothetical story of horse hoof evolution, which is based

0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:19.719
<v Speaker 3>somewhat on fossil evidence and inferences from other sources. But

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:22.840
<v Speaker 3>basically the story that experts have long believed goes something

0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:27.280
<v Speaker 3>like this, that the earliest horses were small, much smaller

0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.239
<v Speaker 3>than horses today. They were sort of dog sized animals

0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:34.880
<v Speaker 3>that lived in forested areas, and they had multiple toes

0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:37.280
<v Speaker 3>per foot. So you have to imagine like small, little,

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:41.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, doggy horses that had at least three toes

0:36:41.080 --> 0:36:43.200
<v Speaker 3>per foot I think maybe four toes on their front

0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:46.000
<v Speaker 3>legs and three toes on their back legs. And then

0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 3>came some climate change about twenty million years ago. Some

0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:54.879
<v Speaker 3>of these horses were living in previously forested habitats that

0:36:55.160 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 3>changed into grasslands and plains. The disappearance of forest and

0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:05.759
<v Speaker 3>the transition to grassland environments put different adaptive pressures on

0:37:05.920 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 3>these herbivorous four legged animals. And you might imagine there

0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:11.560
<v Speaker 3>could be a lot of different pressures there. But one

0:37:11.920 --> 0:37:14.359
<v Speaker 3>example would be if you're not in a forest, if

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:17.120
<v Speaker 3>you're in a grassland instead, it is a lot easier

0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:20.560
<v Speaker 3>for predators to see you. It's harder to hide, and

0:37:20.640 --> 0:37:24.319
<v Speaker 3>so this could drive the evolution of larger bodies as

0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:27.040
<v Speaker 3>a defensive adaptation. You need to make it easier to

0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:30.759
<v Speaker 3>defend yourself. And it could also lead to selection for

0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:34.480
<v Speaker 3>speed in order to be able to evade predators, and

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:37.920
<v Speaker 3>so the story goes. For some reason, this shift to

0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:40.880
<v Speaker 3>becoming an animal that needed to be both big and

0:37:41.360 --> 0:37:46.400
<v Speaker 3>fast caused the selection of the single toe for the

0:37:46.760 --> 0:37:49.960
<v Speaker 3>contact point with the ground, as opposed to the previous

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:53.319
<v Speaker 3>version of this animal, which had had multiple toes per foot. Now,

0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 3>the authors of the study investigated this hypothetical evolutionary trajectory

0:37:57.280 --> 0:38:00.319
<v Speaker 3>by analyzing leg fossils from twelve different times types of

0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:03.480
<v Speaker 3>horses over evolutionary time, going back as far as fifty

0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:06.560
<v Speaker 3>five million years ago all the way up to modern horses.

0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:11.279
<v Speaker 3>And the researchers had previously investigated the different types of

0:38:11.320 --> 0:38:15.440
<v Speaker 3>physical stress put on horse legs by various types of

0:38:15.440 --> 0:38:18.839
<v Speaker 3>normal behaviors like trotting around, jumping, or speeding up into

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:23.280
<v Speaker 3>a run. And using this information about the physical stresses

0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.839
<v Speaker 3>on horse legs, they created a model of how these

0:38:25.880 --> 0:38:29.000
<v Speaker 3>activities would put stress on the legs of the horse

0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:32.480
<v Speaker 3>and then tested that model against different forms of the

0:38:32.560 --> 0:38:36.239
<v Speaker 3>horse's foot with different numbers of toes. And what they

0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:39.279
<v Speaker 3>found was that when horses were smaller and also had

0:38:39.440 --> 0:38:43.600
<v Speaker 3>multiple toes contacting the ground, the extra digits were actually

0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:46.759
<v Speaker 3>important for carrying the weight of the body. Body weight

0:38:46.920 --> 0:38:51.080
<v Speaker 3>was distributed across multiple toes, but as horses got bigger,

0:38:51.280 --> 0:38:54.920
<v Speaker 3>the toes on the sides began to shrink and essentially

0:38:54.960 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 3>disappeared as distinct digits, leaving only the single middle toe. Again,

0:38:59.640 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 3>the middle hit in the ground as the single mighty hoof.

0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.120
<v Speaker 3>This is the lone contact point with the earth now,

0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:09.640
<v Speaker 3>so it seems pretty clear that this is the trajectory

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:14.440
<v Speaker 3>that happened over the evolutionary history of horses or horses,

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 3>zebras and donkeys. But why did the side toes disappear?

0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:22.719
<v Speaker 3>This study in particular does not answer that definitively, but

0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:26.080
<v Speaker 3>in the New York Times article they interviewed the lead author,

0:39:26.080 --> 0:39:31.120
<v Speaker 3>BREONN and Mchorse, and she suggested that maybe it's that

0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:34.279
<v Speaker 3>having just a single toe made it easier for the

0:39:34.320 --> 0:39:38.520
<v Speaker 3>horses to move their feet more quickly, using the comparison

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 3>of like trying to run with ankle weights on or

0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:43.520
<v Speaker 3>I think of the experience of trying to run in

0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.000
<v Speaker 3>heavy boots, which I've done. It's very difficult to do.

0:39:46.400 --> 0:39:48.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, running shoes tend to be very lightweight.

0:39:50.239 --> 0:39:51.000
<v Speaker 1>That's a good point.

0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:54.000
<v Speaker 3>And one thing this does highlight is the kind of

0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:58.880
<v Speaker 3>paradox of the behavior, the graceful behavior of the horse.

0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:03.720
<v Speaker 3>It is like range to observe how graceful and quick

0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:07.799
<v Speaker 3>horses are given their size. Though I would like to

0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:10.720
<v Speaker 3>point out that while horses are sort of a peak

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:14.920
<v Speaker 3>example of this, I'm often struck by the shocking speed

0:40:15.000 --> 0:40:18.000
<v Speaker 3>and grace of even much more modest displays by animals

0:40:18.040 --> 0:40:21.719
<v Speaker 3>like bovines. Like have you ever seen a cow just

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:24.520
<v Speaker 3>suddenly jump over a fence and it didn't look at

0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:27.080
<v Speaker 3>all like that was something that could happen until you

0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:28.840
<v Speaker 3>saw it. Do you know what I'm talking about?

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:29.160
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean especially with cattle, because a lot of

0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:35.680
<v Speaker 1>times they do appear to be not moving a lot,

0:40:35.760 --> 0:40:39.000
<v Speaker 1>but when they do move it can be kind of shocking.

0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:42.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, cows can look like four footed barges, like they

0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:44.759
<v Speaker 3>should not be able to move at anything other than

0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:47.960
<v Speaker 3>kind of a shuffle. But then suddenly you see them

0:40:48.040 --> 0:40:50.000
<v Speaker 3>leap over a fence or something like that. And now,

0:40:50.040 --> 0:40:52.359
<v Speaker 3>of course, cows, as a reminder, are not single toed

0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:55.480
<v Speaker 3>ungulates like horses. Cows have two toes per foot, and

0:40:55.600 --> 0:40:59.120
<v Speaker 3>they got the hoofs on the two toes. But yeah,

0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:02.880
<v Speaker 3>so you multiply that to an even greater extent with horses.

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:05.160
<v Speaker 3>When you actually see them up close and see how

0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 3>big the animal is and then how fast and gracefully

0:41:08.560 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 3>it moves, something seems like wrong. It's like how is

0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:15.120
<v Speaker 3>it doing this? And it's quite It seems quite likely

0:41:15.320 --> 0:41:18.800
<v Speaker 3>that the single toad point of contact with the ground

0:41:19.200 --> 0:41:21.680
<v Speaker 3>is part of that equation that is how the horse

0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:22.400
<v Speaker 3>is possible.

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:25.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think this might touch on another reason

0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:30.040
<v Speaker 1>that in literature and culture in general, there's less focus

0:41:30.120 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 1>on how weird the hoof is and more just on

0:41:33.560 --> 0:41:36.799
<v Speaker 1>like the majesty of the horse. Because yeah, watching like

0:41:36.840 --> 0:41:39.600
<v Speaker 1>the sum total of all of this, watching a horse run,

0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:45.160
<v Speaker 1>it's enthralling, Like it's it's hard to imagine, like riding

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:47.839
<v Speaker 1>along in a car and someone like saying, hey, look,

0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:49.920
<v Speaker 1>look over there, those horses in that field are running

0:41:49.920 --> 0:41:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and being like, ah, I'm good, I don't need to

0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:53.520
<v Speaker 1>see that. No, of course you want to see that.

0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 1>There's just something about it. I don't know, you know,

0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:58.360
<v Speaker 1>how much of it is just the the majesty of

0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:00.319
<v Speaker 1>the creature itself. How much of it is it's like

0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:05.880
<v Speaker 1>the historical and cultural weight of horses. But you know,

0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:09.200
<v Speaker 1>it's like they fascinated us. They've always fascinated us, you know,

0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:13.759
<v Speaker 1>since time out of mind, since you know, before our

0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:17.000
<v Speaker 1>ability to even scrawl them roughly on a cavern wall.

0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:19.560
<v Speaker 3>I'm not even one of those horse people, you know.

0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:22.520
<v Speaker 3>They're like horse people and then non horse people. I'm

0:42:22.520 --> 0:42:25.760
<v Speaker 3>a non horse person. But when I let myself be amazed,

0:42:26.280 --> 0:42:28.480
<v Speaker 3>they are amazing. I guess this is what it's like,

0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 3>twenty four to seven to be a horse person.

0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean, and again, I'm not like if you

0:42:33.600 --> 0:42:34.919
<v Speaker 1>asked me, hey, do you want to ride a horse

0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:37.880
<v Speaker 1>this afternoon? I would probably say no, thank I'm good.

0:42:38.320 --> 0:42:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I did it once. I'm fine. It's not my thing.

0:42:40.280 --> 0:42:42.040
<v Speaker 1>But again, if you were to point out the window

0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and say, hey, there's some horses running. Would you like

0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:45.600
<v Speaker 1>to slow the car down and take a look at this,

0:42:45.640 --> 0:42:50.120
<v Speaker 1>I would say yes, please, let's watch, because watching horses

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:51.160
<v Speaker 1>that's more my speed.

0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:52.959
<v Speaker 3>Okay, well, I think we're going to have to cap

0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:55.200
<v Speaker 3>part one of this series there, but we will be

0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:57.359
<v Speaker 3>back to talk about the hoofs some more. I know,

0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:00.480
<v Speaker 3>we have plenty more questions and idea is to get

0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:04.120
<v Speaker 3>into about the evolution of horse hoofs. And also we

0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:06.959
<v Speaker 3>want to talk about the invention of the horseshoe.

0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:12.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, because that is a key invention in the

0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:16.360
<v Speaker 1>human relationship with the horse. And also I think understanding

0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:18.640
<v Speaker 1>the horseshoe helps us understand the hoof a little bit

0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:20.960
<v Speaker 1>more as well. In the meantime, if you have anything

0:43:20.960 --> 0:43:23.200
<v Speaker 1>you'd like to ride in and share with us about

0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:26.720
<v Speaker 1>the horse's or their relatives, anything in general about hoofs

0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:31.680
<v Speaker 1>or horse like steeds in fantasy and science fiction, everything's

0:43:31.719 --> 0:43:35.520
<v Speaker 1>fair game. We'll share that email address in just a minute.

0:43:35.840 --> 0:43:37.680
<v Speaker 1>But in the meantime, you can also check out other

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0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:52.879
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0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:53.680
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0:43:53.920 --> 0:43:58.319
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0:43:58.360 --> 0:43:59.799
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0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:02.400
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0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:04.600
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