1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And since the Oscars are right around 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: the corner at the time of this recording, we wanted 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: to look at women directors because there has been a 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: lot of conversation this OSCAR season and in just recent 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: OSCAR seasons in general about women directors, and we've talked 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: about them before on the podcast, but we haven't looked 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: at the pioneering female directors of Hollywood. Yeah, this was 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: a great chance to look at where we are today 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: but also where we've come from. And we have uncovered something. 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: I say we have uncovered like we're some film historians, 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: but we have enjoyed reading others discoveries of the fascinating 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: women who contributed so much to the development of the 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: film industry and their subsequent erasure from film history up 16 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: until recent decades also says a lot about where we 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: are today in terms of women behind the camera. And 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: first off, we're going to give you a quick snapshot 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: of exactly where we are. And spoiler alert, it's not 20 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: it's not great, it's not fantastic. There's a reason why 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: there's so much conversation about where are the women directors? 22 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: Where are the Oscar nods for female directors? And the 23 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: first source we're going to cite is from the two 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen Annual Celluloid Ceiling Report released by Dr Martha Lawson, 25 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: who's the executive director of the Center for the Study 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: of Women in Television and Film at San Diego State University. Yeah, so, basically, 27 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: the overall amount of women working in the film industry 28 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: today is slightly lower than the level, which is a 29 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: little disheart thing. And when you look at the women 30 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: who are actually directors, out of that group, women made 31 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: up just six percent of all directors working on the 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: top grossing films, and that's actually a three percent drop 33 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,839 Speaker 1: from just And we have some more stats to throw 34 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: at you, because there has been a lot of attention 35 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: on this on women in the film industry in general, 36 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: but also women making films, not just women who are 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: starring in films, although that's obviously important as well. And 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: there was some study data that came out of the 39 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: University of Southern California looking at Sundance films in particular, 40 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: and the Sundance Festival is known for providing a launching 41 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: pad not only for female filmmakers but also filmmakers of color. 42 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: So it's it's a really important platform. Um. But even 43 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: there you see pretty wide gender gaps. Yeah. So they 44 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: looked at sundance films that were released between the year 45 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: the year two thousand the two. Thus, exactly, I had 46 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: to stop myself from singing, and uh, and not that 47 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with singing. I narrate everything I do 48 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: at home in a sing song, which is I'm sure 49 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: obnoxious for my boyfriends. Kind of you kind of like 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: snow white, except no birds come and make dresses for me. Um. 51 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: But okay, So they found that films directed by women 52 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: feature more women in all roles. There was a twenty 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: increase in women working on a narrative film during that 54 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: time two thousand twelve, and in that same time block 55 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: increase of women working on documentaries. But nonetheless, just twenty 56 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: three point nine percent of the films looked at in 57 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that sun danced study or directed by women. And this 58 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: is also notable too that from two thousand two to 59 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, women made up only four point four 60 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: percent of directors in the top one box office films 61 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: each year and looking at who making those top grossing 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: films is also relevant because when it comes to making 63 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: a film in Hollywood, the people who will finance that 64 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: film want to know, is this going to make money? Yeah? 65 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: Money is the is the main driver. If it's going 66 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: to make money, we don't care what you look like. 67 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: We want to make a lot of money. And so 68 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: if we look at narrative films, that's the storytelling films. 69 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: It's basically anything that's not a documentary. It's Titanic, it's Twilight, 70 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: it's It's my best friend's Wedding. All the films we 71 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: love there we go perfect. So if we look at 72 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: those narrative films of the past decade, we find that 73 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: forty one women have made films in the top one 74 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: hundred released films every year, versus six hundred and twenty 75 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: five men. They also found that there are fifteen point 76 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: two four male directors for each one female director, So 77 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: there's a there's a quarter of a guy hanging out. Yeah, 78 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: he's like, hey, I'm point two four over here, I'm shins, 79 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: that's all I am. And disapparachion sitting in one of 80 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: those folding chairs that directors get are the feet attached 81 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: quiet on the set? That's the shians talking. So the question, 82 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: obviously then is why is that? Why are there fifteen 83 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: men and a pair of shins for every entire female 84 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: body making films? Are directing films, we should say, And 85 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of investigation into this in mainstream 86 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: media outlets such as The New York Times, Vanity Fair, Variety, 87 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: pretty much any media outlet that has the interest in 88 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry has asked this question, and the resounding 89 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: theme is, well, old boys club style networking, which helps, 90 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: but also it is that money factor. Yeah, there is 91 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: this interesting quote from producer Cassie and Elvis to the 92 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: New York Times, who brought up something that I honestly 93 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: hadn't thought of. I understood the whole money thing that 94 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: films and producers foll owe the money what will be profitable, 95 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: but always said that the tricky part is that foreign 96 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: sales company provide the pre sale estimates for the value 97 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: of a movie in territories outside of the United States, 98 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: and so it's not necessarily financewers here in the US 99 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: who are struggling with the idea of a female director 100 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: or a producer for that matter. It's people who are 101 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 1: just not used to considering women as action film directors, 102 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: for example, in such a male dominated world at large. 103 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: So if you wonder, for instance, why there have been 104 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: so many Transformers and movies made, it's because those big 105 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: Michael Bay action films translate easily to foreign screens. It's 106 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: it's almost like a knee jerk reaction like, oh, well 107 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: is there violence? Is there? Are there explosions? Is there? 108 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: You know, a token attractive woman? Then perfect, really really 109 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: simple dialogue? Yeah, well by that. But the question and 110 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 1: then you have to ask, and this is a question 111 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: for another podcast, is well our women just not being 112 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: offered those kinds of directorial roles? Do women not want 113 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: to make action movies? Where do we make different kinds 114 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: of movies that just are aren't as appealing to global audiences? Uh? 115 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: Who knows who's to say? But side note. Fortunately, we 116 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: do have a group like Game Changer Films, which exclusively finances, 117 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: according to their website, narrative features directed by women, and 118 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: a lot of this have gone onto places like sun 119 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: Dance to Rave reviews. And it's interesting too to see 120 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: how a list actresses are also getting in on that, 121 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: creating their own production companies specifically to finance films by women. 122 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: Reese Witherspoon has done this, Selma hiak Uh, Angelina Jolie 123 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: has gotten into directorial roles. I think Sandra Bullock has 124 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: also created her own production company. So clearly action is 125 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: being taken in Hollywood to address this issue. But Bill, 126 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: I mean, one for every fifteen point two four is 127 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: a pretty staggering statistic. Yeah, And when you look back 128 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: at the history of film where it originated, I mean, 129 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: we have some pretty fascinating, pretty fascinating characters behind the 130 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: camera that have essentially been lost to history, which is 131 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: so unfortunate. And so I'm really glad, I'm super glad 132 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: that we're doing this this podcast, because not only do 133 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: we want our listeners to be aware of these women, 134 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: but it's totally self serving altruism, because I'm just fascinated 135 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: to read this stuff. Yeah, to go back to that 136 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: narrative film statistic we cited really quickly, in terms of 137 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: forty one women making films out of the top one 138 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: released every year over the past decade versus six five men. 139 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: Think of that gender gap and the fact that the 140 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: person who invented narrative film was a woman. Yeah, oh, 141 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: such a great character. This is Alice Blische. She's history's 142 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: first female director, and she has an incredible resume. She 143 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: was pretty much, we assume, the only female director at 144 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: all period from eighteen ninety six to nineteen o six, 145 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: and this woman wrote, directed, or produced more than a 146 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: thousand films, mostly short, single real films, including the wonderfully 147 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: titled in the year two thousand when women are in charge. Alice, Well, sorry, Alice, Uh, 148 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: it didn't happen. Yeah, that's like back to the future too, 149 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: when they just assume that everybody in is going to 150 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: have hoverboards. It's not a thing. It didn't happen. Here 151 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: we are I'm so disappointed for so many reasons. Where 152 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: the hoverboards. And on top of that, she made the 153 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: first film with an all African American cast, called A 154 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: Fool and His Money, which we'll talk about in a minute. 155 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: And she also innovated a number of techniques. Not only 156 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: did she think, you know what, this new f gold 157 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: film thing could be a great way to tell stories, 158 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: hence the invention of narrative film. She also used synchronized 159 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: sound way before the invention of talkies. She also used 160 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: deep focused photography, double exposure, split screen, the mirror gag 161 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: color film, and also emphasized natural acting style because when 162 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: you think back to silent films, it was usually, you know, 163 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: all these big, exaggerated gestures. But she always told her 164 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: actors be natural. And that's actually the title of a 165 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: forthcoming documentary about her, right, I think that's fascinating because yeah, 166 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: even I feel like, even if you watch movies from 167 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: the thirties and forties, they're still not wooden, but just 168 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: as if they're projecting because they're on stage, they're still 169 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: like that unnatural quality to some films from back then. 170 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, she really emphasized that, no, we're depicting real 171 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: life in this story, and so I want you to 172 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: be natural. And you can see that difference on screen. 173 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: And because you can watch clips from her films, you know, 174 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of them are single real so 175 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: you can see the whole thing on YouTube, and it's 176 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: a stark difference between these more natural looking characters and 177 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: someone who's almost vaudevillian on camera. But her film studio, 178 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: the Solax Company, was the largest pre Hollywood production house 179 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: of its kind, and that's quoting the Being Natural documentary trailer, 180 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: and they were churning out two to three films per week. 181 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: Granted these were not feature length films, they were shorter, 182 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: single real films. But still that's a lot of a 183 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: lot of films. Yeah. Well, so let's look back at 184 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: her career where it started. Back after she graduated high school, 185 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: she became a secretary for Leon Gumin of Gumal Studios 186 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: in Paris thanks to a tip from her stenography professor, 187 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: and very significantly, it was through that job that she 188 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: was present for a demonstration of the Lumiere Brothers motion 189 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: picture actor. They basically were the first cinematographers. They filmed 190 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: uh factory workers leaving a factory for the day. Um 191 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: So they weren't doing the narrative style film. They basically 192 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: helped create the first documentary and so Gi, though being 193 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: quite the smarty pants at this point, immediately saw the 194 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: narrative potential for this medium. She wrote in her memoirs, 195 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: quote gathering my courage, I timidly proposed to Guman that 196 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: I write one or two little scenes and have a 197 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: few friends perform in them. And listen up here, she said, 198 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: if the future development of motion pictures had been foreseen 199 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: at this time. I should never have obtained his consent. 200 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: My youth, my inexperience, my sex all conspired against me. 201 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: And Guman responded, Oh, what a silly, girlish thing that 202 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: you would want to do. Fine, take take this equipment, 203 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: make your little film. How interesting now that this echoes 204 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: like a major theme in our podcast where we've talked 205 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: about various industries, various professions where women maybe they're not 206 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: encouraged to participate, but they're certainly not discouraged from participating 207 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: when it is still considered a practice of passion or 208 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: art or just various, you know, being being interested in something. 209 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:23,679 Speaker 1: Once it becomes professionalized or unionized or whatever and there 210 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: is actual money to be made in their higher stakes, 211 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: that's all of a sudden, when you're biological sex becomes 212 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 1: a problem. Yeah. And she was only twenty three when 213 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: this light bulb went off in her head. And so 214 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: she made this short film called The Cabbage Ferry, which 215 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: is arguably the first narrative film, and it was opposed 216 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: to films at the time that were more intent on 217 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: capturing real life documentary style. Um, there was a lot 218 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: of almost a scientific focus on the use of film 219 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: at the time to study motion, uh, to see how 220 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: all the human body move. There's some interesting intersection at 221 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: this time actually between the development of film and it's 222 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: intended use and the developing sciences as well. And so 223 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: he had such a revolutionary vision for this. And I 224 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: watched The Cabbage Ferry because it's it's really short, and 225 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: it's essentially it's like cabbage patch dolls. Like it's a 226 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: well dressed woman picking up these babies from cabbages and 227 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: they're they're live babies. It's not prop babies. And the 228 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: only thing I was just a little bit in horror 229 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: while I was watching Becaussie's babies are just screaming their 230 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: heads off. I mean you can't hear it, luckily, luckily 231 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: silence silent film. But I just wonder where she got 232 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: all those volunteer babies. That's funny. Yeah, how do you 233 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: put an ad for that in the paper? Now? Probably 234 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: we're just putting them in cabbage. It's fine, it's fine. 235 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: But speaking to The Daily Beast, Alison McMahon really hammered 236 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: home the significance. She said that gie Blache understood that 237 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: telling a narrative story in film was going to require 238 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: following the perspective of a singular character, and it took 239 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: a good ten years for other filmmakers to figure out 240 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: exactly what she did. Yeah, and speaking of McMahon, she 241 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: is also working on the b Natural documentary. But if 242 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: you want to learn more about Gie Blache before that 243 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: comes out, she wrote a book all about her that 244 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: you can check out, Alice gi Blache Lost Visionary of 245 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: the Cinema. Um so she's figured out, she's twenty three, 246 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: She's made this film and inadvertently made history. Then let's 247 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: fast forward a little bit to nineteen o six when 248 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: she marries an English cameraman, Herbert Blushe, which is where 249 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: the comes from Blache. Yeah. So, then they moved to 250 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: the US to run Gumant's American office, but due to 251 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of different factors that were going on at 252 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: the time, Gumant's whole business state side wasn't doing so well. 253 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: So in Ghi Blache starts up the Solas Company and 254 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: she becomes, therefore the first woman to ever run her 255 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: own studio. Yeah. So, she writes, directs, and otherwise contributes 256 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: to the production of over seven hundred films, including the 257 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: nineteen film House Divided, which is possibly the first American 258 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: film with the detailed plots and both House Divided, and 259 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: another one of her films, Matrimonies, Speed Limit, Highlight Equal 260 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: Partnership within Marriage. And she actually also made a couple 261 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: of action films, not anything like Transformers, but action films 262 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: of the time with women positioned as the heroes. And 263 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: so she wasn't afraid to put women front and center 264 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: in her own films. So even back then, in the 265 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: early days of cinema, there's still that existing pattern we 266 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: see today in terms of women behind the camera, tending 267 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: to put more dynamic women in front of a camera. Right. 268 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: But it's interesting because a lot of sources point out 269 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: that around this time she does start putting out a 270 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: lot of movies that have a general theme about marriage. 271 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: And then in she and Herbert divorced Herbert Herbert he 272 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: ends up remarrying, moves back out West or something he's lost, 273 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: we don't we don't know what Herbert's doing, but uh 274 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: moves back to France with her daughter Simone, and she 275 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 1: really struggled to maintain her livelihood against the rise of 276 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: this corporate film industry. And I mean, here we see 277 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 1: again that whole pattern of when it's just for art, 278 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: when it's art for art's sake, or when it's not professionalized. Hey, women, 279 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: sure do whatever you want. Who cares the minute that 280 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: it's professionalized and it's corporate and there's money to be made. Oh, 281 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: you're a woman. We don't want you to get out 282 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: of here, even when you've already made a thousand films, 283 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: which is kind of wild. And it makes me wonder though, 284 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: whether the divorce from Herbert and not having a guy 285 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 1: by her side perhaps made it more difficult for her 286 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: to make that transition back to France because when she 287 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: was running the stul X company, yes she was the 288 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: head honcho and everything went through her, But at the 289 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: same time, I have a feeling that they were probably 290 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: some businessmen in the industry who liked to see a 291 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: dude next to her rather than just taking orders from 292 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: a woman. Yeah, it could be, but I mean, regardless, 293 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: after this point, she essentially gets a raised from history. 294 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: I mean, she did go back to France, like we said, 295 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: she wrote articles about films, she taught about films, so 296 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: it's not like she completely sank into the ground. She 297 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: was still around. It's just that she couldn't maintain that 298 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 1: position as a director anymore. Yeah, and not only was 299 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: she erased from film history almost symbolically, like she's it's 300 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: only been in recent decades that we even know who 301 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: she is, but her films too were destroyed just because 302 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: of uh, the elements of them not being cared for properly. Um, 303 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: there was a guy who just randomly found one of 304 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: her films at an estate sale. I mean, it's uh. 305 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: And with the being natural documentary, the filmmakers are having 306 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: to raise money in order to access and track down 307 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: the film that's even still available, which is part of 308 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: what I really want it to be made. And I 309 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: want to see it so badly, to see all of her, 310 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: or at least her work that's still in existence. Let 311 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: that be a lesson to us all to take care 312 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: when we go to a state sales, it's through you 313 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: never know what you'll find. So we've introduced you to 314 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: the amazing Alice gi Blache, but we have to talk 315 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: about this fascinating character that she mentored, so you know, 316 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: just never hurts to hammer hound the importance of having 317 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: a mentor in your shows in field. But this brings 318 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: us to Lois Webber who also she herself made a 319 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: bunch of film history. Webber was the first American woman 320 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: to direct a feature length film, and she at the 321 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: time was the leading female director screenwriter in early Hollywood. 322 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: She was also the first and only woman at the 323 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: time elected to the Motion Pictures Directors Association and the 324 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: first mayor of Universal City in California. Uh And in 325 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: Motion Picture Magazine, in an article about her, said quote, 326 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: when the history of the dramatic early development of motion 327 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: pictures is written, Lois Webber will occupy a unique position. Yeah, 328 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: you would think, wouldn't you, well, Unique in the sense 329 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: that we are only just now learning about her, right, 330 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: and film historian Anthony Slide wrote that few men before 331 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: or since have retained such absolute control over the films 332 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: they've directed, and certainly no women directors have achieved the 333 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: all embracing, powerful status once held by Lois Webber. So 334 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: what is the d ol Well's do with Lois Webber? 335 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: Well In she left home to become an opera singer, 336 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: and while touring with the Scene group, she met her 337 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 1: future husband, who was an actor and stage manager, Wendell 338 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: Phillips Smalley, who was also a bit of a feminist 339 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: because he was all like, listen, Lois Webber, I love 340 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: you keep your maiden name. I'm down with that. Let's 341 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: form a partnership and take over the world. That's right. 342 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: And it's worth noting that his feminism didn't come out 343 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: of just nowhere. He's a descendant of the human rights 344 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: pioneer Wendell Phillips, who was a contemporary of Lucy Stone. 345 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: Uh Lucy Stone, famous for keeping her last name indeedly do. 346 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: And so he was very well influenced in his life. 347 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: And so in nineteen o four she married Smalley, and 348 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: it's something that actually really worked in their favor creatively, 349 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: rather than like we see a lot of times when 350 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: a husband and wife come together, the wife is often 351 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: forced to leave the professional world. That only really made 352 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: them stronger. Yeah, I mean, it does seem to echo 353 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: a pattern that we saw with Alice Gee and Herbert Blache. 354 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: And Webber began working at Guman's studios as an actress 355 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: and that's where she met gie Blache. I said before 356 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: the Break mistakenly that it was while Giblache was running 357 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: Solox Company. Was actually earlier than that, during the Guman 358 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: Studios days and under gie Blache's mentorship, Webber expanded her 359 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: skill set to include movie making behind the camera, learning, writing, directing, 360 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: and producing. Yeah, and so she takes these new skills, 361 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 1: these new interests, and she and her husband start making 362 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: shorts and features together under the production billing the Smalley's 363 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: for a whole bunch of production companies, and together in 364 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: they moved to Los Angeles to get in on all 365 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: of that fancy Hollywood action. And in nineteen fourteen she 366 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: makes history she becomes the first American woman to direct 367 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: a full length feature, The Merchant of Venice. And then 368 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen she strikes out on her own with 369 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: Lowest Weber Productions, a move that would make her the 370 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: highest paid Hollywood director at the time because she was 371 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: working for herself. That's right, And that's another theme that 372 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: we see with all three of the women that we're 373 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: going to talk about in this episode, where at some 374 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: point they make the turn and say, you know what, 375 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm going independent, I'm doing. This is no different from 376 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: the women you sided at the top of the podcast 377 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: who have to car still have to carve out their 378 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: own path, their own niche. If they're going to pursue 379 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: this particular path, and her films weren't just easy, breezy 380 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: fluff either. No, they definitely tackled a lot of social issues, 381 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: and despite the threat of censorship for some of them, 382 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: they helped film become recognized as a true art form 383 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: and not just frivolous entertainment. Yeah. So, one of her 384 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: most famous films from nineteen fifteen is Hypocrites, and it 385 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: tackles religion and sexuality in features full nudity. Um. Essentially, 386 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: it's a naked woman on screen, although she's transparent so 387 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: you can't really see all of her nudity in detail. Um, 388 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: but she plays the she sort of symbolizes truth and 389 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: she frolics about. And some people were horrified by Hypocrites 390 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: because of the nudity and also attacking religion in such 391 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: a direct way, but other people praised it. They thought 392 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: that it was, you know, quite an ambitious artistic endeavor 393 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: that paid off. Yeah, And this led to her challenging 394 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,239 Speaker 1: a lot of the censorship efforts that she faced as 395 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: a result, and her very modern response to it was 396 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: that Hypocrites is not a slap at any church or creed. 397 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: It's a slap at hypocrites. And its effectiveness is shown 398 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: by the outcry amongst those it hits hardest to have 399 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: the film stopped. And it's notable too that this ties 400 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: directly into her upbringing because her family was very religious 401 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: and very active in evangelizing, and so she saw film 402 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,959 Speaker 1: as a way to impart moral truths and deal with 403 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: social issues in a novel way, in the same way 404 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: that Alice ski Blache thought of, Hey, let's use film 405 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: a little bit differently than just reflecting day to day 406 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: life or science or motion studies. Interesting, what happens when 407 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: you get people with different perspectives into fields, the fields 408 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: and industries? Yeah, yeah, Well so she also dealt with 409 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: the issue of capital punishment and the people versus John 410 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: Doe from nineteen sixteen, and drug abuse and hop The 411 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: Devil's Brew also from nineteen sixteen. She was not a 412 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: slacker of any kind, and in nineteen sixteen and seventeen 413 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: she tackles contraception with not one but two films, Where 414 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: Are My Children and The Hand That Rocks the Cradle? 415 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: And The Hand that Rocks the Cradle was notable because 416 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: this was happening right after Margaret Sanger was put on 417 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: trial for obscenity, so she was not shy in talking 418 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: about things that were quite hot button issues, I mean 419 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: back then but even today right. Well, and she also 420 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: was and afraid to sort of risk her position because 421 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: you have to keep in mind at the time that 422 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: she's producing he's very controversial film. She's also the highest 423 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: paid director period, not highest paid female director, so she's 424 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: riding pretty high right now. Yeah, and she put herself 425 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: out there, especially in the Hand that Rocks the Cradle, 426 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: because she not only wrote and directed it, she also 427 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: starred in it. Um. We also need to mention Shoes, 428 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: which came out in nineteen sixteen as well, which some 429 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: people think is her best film. It tackled poverty and 430 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: also looking at something that I had never thought of before, 431 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: which was the contemporary plight of shop girls who were 432 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: usually underpaid but also immersed in this new and growing 433 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: consumer culture. Um. Which is something that made me want 434 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: to possibly do a podcast on women in retail in 435 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: the future. Um. And in nineteen sixteen, this very prolific year, apparently, 436 00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: Motion Picture Stories magazine named her the greatest woman director. Yeah. 437 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: And beyond just being a woman, she was routinely cited 438 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: as being one of the best directors period around at 439 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: the time. Unfortunately, she also hit problems like Gee Blache. 440 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: Post divorce, her film career kind of hit the skids, 441 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 1: and she also was largely erased from popular film history. 442 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: And it wasn't really until the nineteen seventies with the 443 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: work of feminist film scholars who sort of rediscovered her, 444 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: that her legacy has been recognized again. And no surprise 445 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: that feminist film scholars would love her because hello, she 446 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: tackles so many issues. Yeah, but it was that pushed 447 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: to uncover um are amazing female predecessors in the film 448 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: industry in the nineteen seventies. That also led to a 449 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: lot of praise for the last woman that we're going 450 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: to talk about today. Yeah, Dorothy Arsner was the first 451 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: female director big wig. Essentially, she was a first member 452 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: of the director's guild. Um. She was the only female 453 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: director in Hollywood during the golden era of the studio system. 454 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: So she is a very big deal. So the Women 455 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: Film Pioneers Project at Columbia University talks about how Arsner's 456 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: career spanned from nineteen nineteen to nineteen forty three, fifteen 457 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: years of which were spent as a director, and she 458 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: remains the most prolific woman studio director in the history 459 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 1: of American cinema. So let's look at how she got 460 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: her start. It was definitely an interesting story because she 461 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: grew up in Hollywood. She wasn't an outsider, but she 462 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: was an outsider in the fact that she studied medicine 463 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: originally at usc and was an ambulance driver for a 464 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: little while in World War One. But then she visited 465 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: a film studio which turned her on to the idea 466 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: of talkies. Not to mention that her parents ran a 467 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: cafe in Hollywood that was frequented by people in the industry. Yeah, 468 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: so she ended up getting a studio job in Paramount 469 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: as a typist, which led to a job as a 470 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: screenwriter and then an editor, which was a common job 471 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: for women back then. And then her big break came 472 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: in with the film Blood and Sand, which he was 473 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: editing because they were worried about going over budget, and 474 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: she decided to use stock footage of a bullfighting scene, 475 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: which ended up saving the studio a ton of money. 476 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: There's that theme again, money And she was so successful 477 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: with us, I mean, she essentially saved this film that 478 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: the director James Cruise took note and brought her on 479 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: to write and edit other films of his. Yeah and 480 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: Ours is pretty savvy when it comes to money. Um, 481 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: I think she would do Chryl Sandberg proud, or Chryl 482 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: Sandberg would do her proud. Um In Arsner negotiated her 483 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: way into a directorial position because she was able to 484 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: leverage an offer from Columbia to direct into a promotion 485 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: and so her first film Fashions for Women, which is 486 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: funny because if you Google image her, which I highly 487 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: recommend you do, if you search for her, she dressed 488 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: exclusively in men's style clothing. Yeah. She wore ties and 489 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: suits and job pers and Oxfords, and her hair was 490 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: cut short, and she was a very handsomely dressed woman. 491 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: And she was always intent on proving her competence because 492 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: it was so widely publicized that she was the only 493 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: woman at that level in Hollywood at the time. And 494 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: it's important to you to remember that this Hollywood that 495 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: she's working in is leaps and bounds beyond the Hollywood 496 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: that say Lois Webber was working in. Yeah, and so 497 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: in ninety nine she directs Paramounts first talkie, which I 498 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: think is pretty interesting The Wild Party, although another source 499 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: does say that paramounts first talkie was Manhattan Cocktail, but 500 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: it almost doesn't matter because both were directed by Arsner 501 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: and that one was and so The Wild Party stars 502 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: film Siren Clara Bow And another significant aspect of this 503 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: is that Arsner essentially invents the boom mic along the way. 504 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: It was a mic on a fishing line. And it's 505 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: pretty cool because when you think about the dawn of 506 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 1: the talkie era, Mike's were stationary, meaning that you had 507 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: previously energetic stars like Douglas Fairbanks or whomever who had 508 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: been able to sort of bound around the screen with 509 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: these large pantomime movements because it was silent, who cares, 510 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: nobody needs to worry about microphones. But these stars then 511 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: had to remain pretty still to kind of hang out 512 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: near the stationary microphones. So Arsner's you know, blowing up 513 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: stuff all over the place, making all sorts of innovations 514 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: boom Mike's boom indeed, and after eleven films with Paramounts, 515 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: she goes independent and in the nineteen thirties she became 516 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: the first female member of the Director's Guild, a labor 517 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: group that today represents more than fifteen thousand directors in 518 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: directorial support staff and counts women directors as their teen 519 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,959 Speaker 1: point seven percent of its membership. And when she went independent, 520 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: she was able to get really lucrative distribution deals because 521 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: of the strong relationship and reputation that she had built 522 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: for herself with Paramount not only as a savvy filmmaker, 523 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: but she also developed a reputation as a star maker. Yeah. 524 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: She made stars out of Katherine Hepburn with the film, 525 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: Christopher Strong, Rosalind Russell with Craig's Wife, and Lucille Ball 526 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: with Dance Girl Dance. And I was telling Kristen that 527 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: I was Google image searching Dance Girl Dance because I 528 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: love seeing these old pictures of Lucille Ball before she 529 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: was I love Lucy. Yeah, and she also had a 530 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: close film relationship with Joan Crawford as well. She directed 531 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: her in a film called The Bride war Red And 532 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: the original trailer for it is fantastic because you know, 533 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: it introduces the film which is about this nightclub singer 534 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: and she wears red and she seduces wealthy men and 535 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: but then of course she falls in love with a 536 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: not so wealthy guy. Whatever. But at the end of 537 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: the trailer, it says a woman's love story directed by 538 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: Hollywood's only woman director, and it cuts to Arsner in 539 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: one of her suits, hanging out on set, which is 540 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I thought it was so interesting that that, 541 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: even back then was a selling point for the films. 542 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: But you do have to wonder from Arsner's perspective if 543 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: she was like, enough, already enough, I'm just a director. 544 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. She looked pretty chill hanging out on 545 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: her and her stup being like, yeah, what I am 546 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: the only one? Pay me make it rain. I'm sure 547 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: she was saying that, yes, definitely make it rain. Definitely. Well. 548 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 1: So in she directs her last feature, first comes courage 549 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: and retires from Hollywood for health reasons and also partly 550 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: because after World War Two, directorial jobs were super hard 551 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: for women to get and things have essentially stayed almost 552 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: the same. It really does seem that way, um But notably, 553 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: she transitioned from making film to teaching film, similar to 554 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: Alice ki Blache, and she inspired filmmakers, including a gentleman 555 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: named Francis Ford Coppola, who would then inspire Sofia Coppola. 556 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: So you can then trace Sofia Coppola all the way 557 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 1: back to Alice ki Blache because she mentored Lois Webber, 558 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:29,760 Speaker 1: which then leads to Arsner Coppola, Coppola loss and translation done, 559 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. Yeah. And scholars have 560 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: looked back at Arsner's career and her path and the 561 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: way that she did things and have talked a lot 562 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: about the way that she was able to do things 563 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: in interpret stories so differently. This is coming from Teresa 564 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: Geller in on the website Senses of Cinema, and Geller 565 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: has done a lot of research into Arsner, and she 566 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: talks about how she often revised original source material to 567 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: really emphasize the complexity of women's lives, to make them 568 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: not only more sympathetic characters, but all such just more 569 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: real human people. And so not only were ours and 570 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: her scriptwriters mostly women, but she also took characters that 571 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: maybe weren't supposed to be so positive and turn them 572 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: into someone who was real. So, so if you take 573 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: the play Craig's Wife, for instance, it's about a domineering 574 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: wife and her put upon husband, and you're totally supposed 575 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: to sympathize with this husband, she reworked it. She made 576 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: the lead character complex, and she made the story basically 577 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: into a critique of the institution of marriage, of the 578 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: limits placed on women, and she focuses on the wife's 579 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: acknowledgement that she went into the marriage to attain security. 580 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: And she even plays the bitter old widow widow next 581 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: door who's played by Billy Burke, who played Glenda the 582 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: good Witch. She plays her as just like a happy 583 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: solo gardener, elderly lady who's just getting along alone, just fine. 584 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 1: And that was a general theme of her films, is 585 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: that only did she portray women who were outside the 586 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: balance of heterosexual relationships with men as happy but almost 587 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: as like the better, healthier choice in life. Yeah, there's 588 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: been a lot of investigation into her exploration of the 589 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: male gays and also flipping that to the female gays 590 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: lesbian undertones in some of her films as well, because 591 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: Arsner had a long term relationship with I believe it 592 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: was one of her choreographers that she worked with um 593 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: And for all of these reasons, feminist film scholars in 594 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,399 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies in particular, really, I mean just we're 595 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: almost magnetically drawn to her body of work because she's 596 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: such a complex person to begin with, especially considering the 597 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: context of the time in Hollywood at the time. Um, 598 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: but also how perhaps her queer identity influences how she 599 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: makes films. So I know that I am now loading 600 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: up my books cue with oars films because I want 601 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,800 Speaker 1: to see this stuff. Yeah, personally, I really want to 602 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: see Craig's wife, in particular because I love Rosalind Russell 603 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: would be so curious to see her in this role. Um. 604 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: And just to quote Geller once more, she said, for 605 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: much of Arsner's work, sexuality stands as a threat to 606 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: women's community. Arsner's film exposes that strain of the heterosexual 607 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: bargain that shackles women. Yeah, she often portrays if there 608 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: are any relationships on screen that are between women, those 609 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: are the safe, healthy, strong relationships that free women up 610 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: to do what they truly want to do. Any time, 611 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: it's almost like any time she depicts marriage or relationships 612 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: or anything between men and women, that that is almost 613 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: cited as the downfall of the female character. But interestingly, though, 614 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 1: in talking about her experience at the time in Hollywood, 615 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: she said, once no one gave me trouble because I 616 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: was a woman, men were more help fall than women. 617 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: And and it seems like, just based on how she 618 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: talks about getting into film and how she develops her career, 619 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: that she possessed so much confidence. I mean, and I 620 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: guess that she had to because she was an outsider 621 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: in multiple ways. Yeah, and she does. She did have 622 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: the quote that women's dramatic sense is invaluable to the 623 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: motion picture industry. So she obviously obviously felt that women 624 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: like her or just women in general belonged there and 625 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: should be in those roles. And it's unfortunate that we 626 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: sort of couldn't keep our promise to her to keep 627 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: more women in those roles. Well, and we're still calling 628 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: for the same thing today. You could. I've seen that 629 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: quote paraphrase from female studio executives, female filmmakers, women directors 630 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: today saying the same thing, urging people to recognize the 631 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: value of women filmmakers. So I really hope that there 632 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: are some filmmakers perhaps listening. Um, what do you think 633 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: about these pioneers? Are there other female director pioneers that 634 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: we didn't talk about that we should acknowledge. Um, if 635 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: you are in the film industry, what kind of barriers 636 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: have you face and have they been related to your gender, 637 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: or ethnicity or orientation. Let us know mom Stuff at 638 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: how stuffworks dot com is our email addressed. And also 639 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,000 Speaker 1: if you have recommendations of films directed by women, let 640 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: us know. You can tweet us a mom Stuff podcast 641 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: or messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple of 642 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: messages to share with you right now. So I have 643 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: a letter here from Katrina about our Gay best Friends episode. 644 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 1: She said that we basically left bisexuals out of the equation, 645 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: even though we talked about the lesbian aspect of this 646 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: whole gay best Friend thing. She says, this is what 647 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: people mean when they talk about bisexual erasure. A perfect 648 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: example to me is in the show Buffy, when Willow 649 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: meets Tara. She isn't considered bisexual. No, she's a lesbian. 650 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: Her valid and loving relationship with Oz is tossed out 651 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 1: the window. Her long crush on Xander is tossed out 652 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 1: the window. She is with a woman now, and she 653 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: is a lesbian. You were both so great at being 654 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: super inclusive in all your podcasts. You recognize your privilege 655 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: and work to check it before you do it. But 656 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: this bothered me. I am bisexual. Some bisexuals have a 657 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: preference for men or women. I've always considered myself pretty 658 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: fifty fifty before my most recent relationship. My most serious 659 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,640 Speaker 1: relationship was with a woman. We were together almost four 660 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,360 Speaker 1: years and we were engaged. I was not a lesbian 661 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: in my time with her. I am not straight now 662 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: because I'm with a man, just like I'm not a 663 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: sexual when I'm single. I just wanted to give you 664 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: my insight on this so you can think about it 665 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: in the future. Visibility is key to making the outliers 666 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 1: feel normal and normalizing them to the world at large. Again, 667 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 1: I really love the podcast and the YouTube channel. Maybe 668 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 1: this could be a future topic. So thank you, Katrina 669 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: appreciate the letter. Well, I've got a letter here from 670 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: l about our Gay Best Friend episode as well, and 671 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: L right, I'm a lesbian. I hate that word, and 672 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: I've been out since i was fourteen. I'm now twenty 673 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: eight and I've been with my wife for three years. 674 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,919 Speaker 1: Most lesbians irritate me. I get along with gay men 675 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: and straight men way more than I do gay women. 676 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: I find them generally more fun to be around, and 677 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,360 Speaker 1: everything isn't our strab all the time, but lesbians I 678 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: do know and hang out with our friends that I've 679 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: had for over eight years, and we've just remained close. 680 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,280 Speaker 1: My best friend from high school is a straight woman. 681 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: She and I are just like sisters, and there's never 682 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: been a moment when we needed to set ground rules. 683 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: I'm closer to her husband now than I am to her, 684 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: and she and my wife are very close. I work 685 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: in web design and I'm around straight people most of 686 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: the time, and I've never had any weird experiences. I 687 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: guess this is just a sign that the world is 688 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: coming along and I'm lucky to be where I am. 689 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: My closest friends are guys. I get along with them 690 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 1: on a different level. The professor you brought up in 691 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: the podcast seems to have her information all wrong. I guess, 692 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: not all over the board, but it seems like she's 693 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: had a bad experience and is lumping all of her 694 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: bad memories onto everyone and if she happens to be 695 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,240 Speaker 1: a lesbian, and that's exactly where we get our bad 696 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: name from. I'm not exactly sure why I wrote in 697 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,280 Speaker 1: with my life story. I just felt like I didn't 698 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: fit anywhere in this podcast, So thanks l and thanks 699 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: Katrina for letting us know that you felt left out, 700 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: because we want to share your stories as well, and 701 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: that goes for the Gave Us Friend podcast or any 702 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: podcast where you think, huh, where am I in this story? 703 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: Because we want to hear your stories and you can 704 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: send them to us at mom stuff at house stetworks 705 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,520 Speaker 1: dot com. And for links to all of our social 706 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, 707 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: including this one with links so that you can learn 708 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: more about Alice ki Blash, Lois Webber, and Dorothy Arsner. 709 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,959 Speaker 1: Head on over to stuff Mom Never Told You dot 710 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 711 00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: Does it have stuff works dot com