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Speaker 1: What are we doing here, kids, Nothing, We're recording. We're

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Speaker 1: going on pretty rode so people can We're already getting

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Speaker 1: to the holiday spirit here, Renee.

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Speaker 2: We are Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee Stubsenta's podcast.

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Speaker 2: I had no idea, Caitline is control of the producing

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Speaker 2: side of this.

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Speaker 1: Is any problems we have?

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Speaker 2: Well now you nailed it last week. How happy was

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Speaker 2: everybody last week with us? Not to get interjecting an

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Speaker 2: ad for a music in the middle of a wood.

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Speaker 1: It's because they turned mineral ads off. We're probably going

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Speaker 1: to get an angry note from our our parent company. Well,

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Speaker 1: I would like deserve technology. It doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: Uh, those reads be paying us exactly.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, We're we're we're working on it, folks, We're working

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Speaker 1: on But you know what season conversations, you've given you

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Speaker 1: what you want? Okay, which is us unfiltered on the mic.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say, because we haven't said this

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Speaker 2: and I haven't said this, but.

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Speaker 1: You appreciate me so much.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you so much. Caitlin's to come in here

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Speaker 2: like a whirlybird, but I do appreciate this some random

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Speaker 2: times and walking on the streets in New York, and

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Speaker 2: people do come up and say, hey, love your podcast.

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Speaker 2: So for everybody out there that has come up and

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Speaker 2: said that to me, it is duly noted and is

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Speaker 2: also appreciated.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty funny for me because I am not somebody

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Speaker 1: who's in front of the microphone very often. And I

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Speaker 1: also receive a probably maybe a disportion amount.

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Speaker 2: Of you actually get more email than I do from

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Speaker 2: well listeners.

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Speaker 1: No, because everyone knows you don't check your email. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't well, that's true. Somebody was like, did Renee see

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Speaker 1: my email? I was like, I can't speak Renee, but

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Speaker 1: the answer is no, I do. Like. I also think like,

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Speaker 1: because you're a public figure, everyone sort of knows that

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Speaker 1: they can engage with you, whereas for me, everyone like

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Speaker 1: I get a lot of I get a lot of

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Speaker 1: static on the on the channels. Everyone's like that Renee

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Speaker 1: is amazing, But why is Caitlin. I'm like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to be I can just recede back.

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Speaker 2: Does not need to be here. I just because we

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Speaker 2: live in the same city, I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: Really helps us and I appreciate, but.

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Speaker 1: My desire for being a public figure in front of

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Speaker 1: an audience people is it's not high. It's not I

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Speaker 1: And so when people meet me and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I only know you from the podcast, I'm like, really,

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Speaker 1: here I am.

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Speaker 2: That's sad.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So anyway, what were you going to say? Interrupt you?

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Speaker 2: No, let's get to a little bit of tennis, should we?

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Speaker 2: Shall we? And a little controversy and I want to

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Speaker 2: deep dive on something that is very near and dear

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Speaker 2: to your heart and I haven't even told you about it,

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Speaker 2: which I love throwing through right away. No, let's put

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Speaker 2: it in the middle part. But we have to talk

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Speaker 2: about Davis Cup. Italy wins their third Davis Cup in

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Speaker 2: a row without Janick Cinner And remember I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: and everyone was like upset at him for not playing

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Speaker 2: and all this sort of stuff. I'm like, dude, the

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Speaker 2: guy's just had an incredibly long year. He's just won

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Speaker 2: the last tournament of the year. He's exhausted, he's playing

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Speaker 2: golf horrible.

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Speaker 1: On the gold on their private jet together.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, No, I don't think that's happening, Caitlin.

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Speaker 1: It happened. There was photographic evidence.

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Speaker 2: Oh he was on the plane with him. Yeah, Oh geez.

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Speaker 1: But No, he's in the Maldives.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was playing golf. He was playing golf with

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Speaker 2: Darren k Hill because Darren put it on the on

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Speaker 2: his social media or whatever. And he's trying to get

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Speaker 2: better at golf. But when I initially saw his golf swing,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh okay. And I loved Alex Dimenoor's

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Speaker 2: comment on his Instagram where it said I finally see

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Speaker 2: what I can beat you at. It's always hilarious. But

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Speaker 2: he's having a lot of fun, he's enjoying his team,

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Speaker 2: and clearly he's off to the Maldives. He's got a

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Speaker 2: very attractive new girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: No comment. I don't know. I don't know anything.

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Speaker 2: No comment on that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't I no, because I haven't. I don't know

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Speaker 1: who it is. I haven't seen her. And also I

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Speaker 1: don't think she's your time. Too blonde for you. I just.

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Speaker 2: Don't you love the ship we give you? People come on,

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Speaker 2: gives you this? Does Andy Roddick give you this?

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Speaker 1: No? Probably doesn't, Yeah, probably he was probably so. One

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Speaker 1: thing that that makes me think of is how good

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Speaker 1: a golf game Carlos Alcaraz appears, and how hilarious a

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Speaker 1: golf game rough and at all appears to have it

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Speaker 1: because apparently he's quite good, but he looks like he's

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Speaker 1: playing his style of tennis, which is like sort of

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Speaker 1: agro and punchy.

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Speaker 2: And Carlos is beautiful and free flowing and lovely. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like ash Body is a great golfer, and

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Speaker 2: she plays golf like she played tennis, very free, fluidly,

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Speaker 2: quid and talent and you know, easy. And then you've

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Speaker 2: got Rafa out there like, you know, playing like a bull.

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Speaker 1: Going back to what is a real sport, tennis. It

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Speaker 1: is pretty funny to me that Italy won their third

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Speaker 1: in a row, yes, without Janick Center, and Spain came

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Speaker 1: in second and also did not have Carlos Alkrez. These

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Speaker 1: two countries cannot escape each other.

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Speaker 2: Now they've played isn't against.

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Speaker 1: Each other either in the form of Yanick Center or

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Speaker 1: Carlos Alcaraz in all of the major tournaments, and then

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Speaker 1: of course it comes down to those two in the finals.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, for me, the biggest storyline coming

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Speaker 1: out of I know.

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Speaker 2: What to say. I'm going to guess Berrettini.

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Speaker 1: Bertini, Oh yeah, I knew it. See.

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Speaker 2: It was just nice to see him who has not

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Speaker 2: had a great couple of years with injuries, and he

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Speaker 2: was like he was the guy, right, the man he

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Speaker 2: was the guy five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Defeated like he was. That was really really I was

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Speaker 1: happy for him.

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Speaker 2: Like about okay, and think about what he was doing

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Speaker 2: before Sinner came along. He was making Wimbledon finals. He

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Speaker 2: was like pushing the greats, you know, to five sets

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Speaker 2: to possibly you know, everyone was talking about him, including myself,

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Speaker 2: to possibly win a major title. And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: you know, these injuries just like kept coming one after

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Speaker 2: the other, and he just like went into oblivion. And

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, these other Italian guys are

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Speaker 2: like Caboli and Bolelli and of course Bussetti, they all

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Speaker 2: started coming out of the woodwork.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Barattini has been sort of left in the dust

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. You're probably right.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. So just to see him have that

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Speaker 2: nice contribution to this because he probably not would not

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Speaker 2: have played. Ifani had played, it would have been I

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Speaker 2: would suspect a Kobali or you know, mess said he

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Speaker 2: didn't play because he was injured, but it would have

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Speaker 2: been Kobali and Cinna more than.

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Speaker 1: Likely So to be clear, Kol obviously had like some

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Speaker 1: great moments as well. I mean, he got the moment

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Speaker 1: of like winning the the final match and having everyone

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Speaker 1: mob on the court, But it really was Barret Teeny's weekend,

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Speaker 1: which is why I think, like, after exactly what you're saying, like,

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Speaker 1: I really do love the sort of dramatics of a

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Speaker 1: lot of this where you're like, you know, casual fans

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Speaker 1: of this sport maybe remember this guy's name, and they

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Speaker 1: certainly remember his face. Well, I know the ladies do,

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Speaker 1: I mean, as we all do. I mean, wells is

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Speaker 1: yeah fest with those Varantini eyelashes. I mean, he's really

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Speaker 1: nothing about him, but the fact that he's had, yes,

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Speaker 1: an unfortunate series of events with injury after another and

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Speaker 1: then just really gotten over overshadowed. Yeah, allowing him to

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Speaker 1: have a moment like that's something amazing ab attendance, which

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Speaker 1: is also why I get excited when it's a story

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Speaker 1: that's not about the same two or three names at

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Speaker 1: the top where it's like, oh yeah, remember remember me, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And remember me boss guy, Hugo, boss man.

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Speaker 1: This guy deserves a moment in the sun. So I

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Speaker 1: was really really happy for him. I also thought Spain

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Speaker 1: playing with a very controversial lineup Davide Ferrer, who we

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Speaker 1: all love. By the way, here's another guy who like

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Speaker 1: was pushing the greats, made it deep in a tournament.

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Speaker 1: He was the guy who was sort of destined to

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Speaker 1: lose in the semifinals, and yeah, he made a final.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he made a selection for Davis Cup,

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Speaker 1: preferring to take four players instead of including a fifth

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Speaker 1: in the form of Alejandro da Vidovich Fakina, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people were kind of like, well, what,

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Speaker 1: but whatever he did clearly worked. Although you know, if

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Speaker 1: you come up short in the final or not, questions

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Speaker 1: are going to linger.

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Speaker 2: I suppose yeah, listen, I want to go back to

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Speaker 2: the Semis with Belgium. Though that tiebreak goes down as

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Speaker 2: one of the great tie breaks we've ever been. I mean,

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Speaker 2: twelve match points between the two of them, unreal, what

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Speaker 2: it was like a hour and a half or something,

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Speaker 2: crazy third sad it and that was you know that

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Speaker 2: that was probably the thing that won Italy the Davis Cup,

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Speaker 2: because you know, winning that and then getting to the

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Speaker 2: final and then doing what they did in the final

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Speaker 2: in Spain. Okay, let's not forget about that, but it

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Speaker 2: also to have Spain lose to Italy in Italy, you know,

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Speaker 2: to have the crowd like that's a home and away tie,

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Speaker 2: and that's what Davis Cup should be, yea. It should

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Speaker 2: not be their destination. Everyone goes. We've talked about it

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Speaker 2: at nauseum about how many times we think the Davis

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Speaker 2: Cup should be played. And I think that what we

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Speaker 2: saw on the weekend, just and having those moments for Berrettini,

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Speaker 2: for Koboli, for Yannick in the past, for Novak in

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Speaker 2: the past. I think every two years would be really good.

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Speaker 2: I think they should do a Davis Cup Ryder Cup

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Speaker 2: kind of similarity where it's every couple of years and

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Speaker 2: it becomes super important. And frankly, yes, the best, all

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Speaker 2: the best players in the world should be playing it,

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Speaker 2: but you cannot demand the best players to play it

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Speaker 2: if they're exhausted and it is freaking ye no vem

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Speaker 2: by you guys, and they are getting on a plane

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Speaker 2: to go to Australia in the end of December. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's like there's no turnaround and they need to have

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Speaker 2: the time off.

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Speaker 1: And I don't even know that they should have it

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Speaker 1: once every two years. I would love to have them

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Speaker 1: do it more infrequently and more meaningfully, like the World

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Speaker 1: Cup or the Olympics. And again I know that there's

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Speaker 1: like it seems like we're splitting hairs, but I really

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Speaker 1: do think like, if you're going to keep it in

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Speaker 1: this late stage of the year, which I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: would all love to move it, but the question becomes

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Speaker 1: to war, then you have to make an exception to

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Speaker 1: make it the special thing that happens off season, because otherwise, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you just have.

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Speaker 2: Two years probably maybe if you want it every four years,

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Speaker 2: then two years before the Olympics.

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Speaker 1: Right, sure, you've been off cycle for two years off

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Speaker 1: of the exacts. Again, so either way, like you need

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Speaker 1: to create a momentum, you need to create a story,

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Speaker 1: you need to create steaks. And I think the powers

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Speaker 1: that be in tennis, I hope, based on some conversations

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Speaker 1: I've had with various folks, I think they're starting to

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Speaker 1: understand that, like, oh, in a world where tennis isn't

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Speaker 1: a given for people to want to consume, in a

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Speaker 1: world where it's already hard enough for us from a

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Speaker 1: broadcast perspective to tune into it, and there's really only

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Speaker 1: a few empties that matter. Creating something off calendar or

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Speaker 1: creating something or sustaining something that maybe doesn't have a

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Speaker 1: reason to exist is a real like, that's a real

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Speaker 1: existential question, which is like, why is this thing? And

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Speaker 1: if it is the thing, then what are we going

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Speaker 1: to do to make sure that the stakes are clearly

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Speaker 1: articulated for fans and for players so that they don't

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Speaker 1: have an easy pass to say no, thanks, yeah, or

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Speaker 1: so that fans understand Okay, well, this is why I'm

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Speaker 1: tuning in. This is why it matters. And and I

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Speaker 1: think in the case of the Billaging King Cup and

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Speaker 1: Davis Cup, obviously the history of this really matters. The

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Speaker 1: way that the players represent their country. I think different

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Speaker 1: players understand this differently. The Athletic had a piece over

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Speaker 1: the weekend quoting Pete Sampras, who was very articulate about

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Speaker 1: I love this thing. It was extremely meaningful for me

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Speaker 1: to win it alongside Andre and the Gullicksins and you know,

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Speaker 1: McEnroe and all these guys in the early nineties. But

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Speaker 1: it really should be infrequent, and it should matter matter,

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Speaker 1: and I think those things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, one of the greatest players of all time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, who really love to play Davis Cup? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think the thing that you know and me, look,

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Speaker 2: it was a It was absolutely on my calendar every

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Speaker 2: time whenever I was asked to play Billy Jean King Cup,

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Speaker 2: I was like, where do I got to go?

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I suspect that if I

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Speaker 1: go downstairs to your base, to your bottom level and

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Speaker 1: look at your closet, that for all these clothes you've

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Speaker 1: on used, there's probably an extreme amount, based on past experience,

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Speaker 1: that is labeled Australia either Olympic team. Yeah, Billy Jean Kings,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a matter of taking up in my very

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Speaker 2: small apartment in New York. But I will say that

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Speaker 2: playing for your country is something that you don't get

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Speaker 2: to do a lot, so when you do it, you

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Speaker 2: I would argue that there's not one player playing on

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Speaker 2: tour and if they are, they're just either not patriotic

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Speaker 2: or they're just assholes, because I don't think there's one

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Speaker 2: player that wouldn't that would say I don't want to

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Speaker 2: play for my country. Every single player wants to play

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Speaker 2: Fas Cup or Billy Jean king Cup or the Olympics.

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Speaker 2: Every single one of them wants to do that, but

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Speaker 2: they're not going to also threaten their livelihood like a

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Speaker 2: Janick Sinner or Al Karaz for example, who was injured,

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Speaker 2: who didn't want to play, or they're exhausted or they've

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Speaker 2: had to play too much. And yes, we're going to

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Speaker 2: have these people go yeah, but yeah, we're about Charaz

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Speaker 2: is playing and he's playing an exhibition in a week.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're about to have this conversation.

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Speaker 2: It's the difference. He's going to play that exhibition. And

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Speaker 2: trust me when I tell you, he will not hit

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Speaker 2: one tennis ball from the last tennis ball he hit

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Speaker 2: against Yonick Cinner, the backhand cross court miss, he has

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Speaker 2: not hit a tennis ball. He will not hit a

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Speaker 2: tennis ball before the start of that exhibition that he plays.

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Speaker 2: So he's giving himself full rest, he's getting the leg fixed.

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Speaker 1: And also it doesn't matter, and.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. I know it because last year when

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Speaker 2: he came and played the Garden Cup here in New York,

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Speaker 2: he hadn't hit a ball since the last time he played.

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Speaker 2: So so he went out there and hit a few

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Speaker 2: like hit for a half an hour, and then he

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Speaker 2: went and played and he played great, because great players

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Speaker 2: can pick up a tennis racket after two weeks and

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Speaker 2: play and be fine. They might be a bit rusty,

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Speaker 2: which by the way, he was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think just to sort of double down

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Speaker 1: on this point. And we talked about this actually with Elkresz,

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Speaker 1: specifically when he played at the French Open and lost

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Speaker 1: a very nervy match to Novak Djokovic, because he was

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Speaker 1: so tight that the way his body responded in that

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Speaker 1: match he cramped. And I think when you say, like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, why is it different when they're playing an exhibition.

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Speaker 1: And to be clear, I don't like exhibitions and I

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Speaker 1: don't care about any of the stuff that's about to

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Speaker 1: happen in the next month or so, truly, And I

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Speaker 1: mean just not to say I won't go to it,

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Speaker 1: or like I wouldn't like have a cocktail, but I

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Speaker 1: just think like in a world where there's already too

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Speaker 1: much tennis and there's a struggle for narrative and mind share,

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Speaker 1: the things that we do have should be meaningful and

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Speaker 1: well marketed. That's not to say they all have to count.

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Speaker 1: On the record, I loved more than most people the

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Speaker 1: United Cup. I loved cop Hopman Cup. I loved the mix.

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Speaker 2: Well, Team Tennis was great, World.

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Speaker 1: Team Tennis, like, I really do like this idea that

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Speaker 1: tennis can be and should be played in all sorts

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Speaker 1: of different context and in fact, thinking about these exhibitions

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Speaker 1: and some of the things that mean tennis is experimenting

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Speaker 1: with format. You know, Eric back, the USCA executive who

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Speaker 1: was largely credited with executing I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: thought of it. I yes, you share is credited with

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Speaker 1: the person having created that idea. But regardless of where

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Speaker 1: it started, Eric Buderack was in charge of executing it.

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Speaker 1: He did a great job, and the mixed doubles event

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Speaker 1: in the fan week leading up to the US Open

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Speaker 1: was such a smash hit that it is hard to

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Speaker 1: imagine the other Slams don't take notice and replicate the

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Speaker 1: same thing, as as well as other Masters one thousands,

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Speaker 1: which I would love to see.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not even well, I can tell you Wimbledon

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Speaker 2: will never do it.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe, but Wimbledon they said would never have

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Speaker 1: a tie break and they instituted one in the last.

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Speaker 2: That's a little different. Maybe that's a little.

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Speaker 1: They're making changes around the margin.

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Speaker 2: They also a recent change. Why this is a set

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Speaker 2: tie break?

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Speaker 1: Well, sure it happened at their club.

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Speaker 2: Sixty nine sixty seven or whatever the hell that's seventy

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Speaker 2: sixty eight years set.

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Speaker 1: But I do think, like for the exhaustion question, coming

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Speaker 1: back to this, nobody's going to get nervous in an

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Speaker 1: exo and cramp, no or injured.

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Speaker 2: No one's going to care.

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Speaker 1: No one's going to care. No.

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Speaker 2: And so for me, like the million dollars saying they

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Speaker 2: walk away.

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Speaker 1: The larger idea here, which to me has morphed into

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Speaker 1: a conversation about how do we fix tennis? Fewer events,

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Speaker 1: more meaningful, better stories, better offerings, is all part of

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Speaker 1: the equation. And in a world where the itf exists

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Speaker 1: and sort of administrates the Billaging King and the Davis Cup,

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Speaker 1: they are now also competing for eyeballs, competing for relevance,

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Speaker 1: competing for interest, and to be fair, the players, as

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Speaker 1: they always do, provided the product at a really high level.

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Speaker 1: It's up to everybody else to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: make sure that they stay safe, they stay healthy, and

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Speaker 1: the product itself, meaning that the actual ticket sales and

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Speaker 1: media rights are as valuable as you hope that they

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Speaker 1: would be. Yeah, and that's all often the part that

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Speaker 1: Cup falls down because the tennis itself was excellent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I argue that if it's more meaningful,

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Speaker 2: it's less frequent and it becomes more special. Like I

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Speaker 2: bring it up all the time, ryde A Cup and

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Speaker 2: Solheim Cup. For the women golfers, it's just something they

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Speaker 2: vie for and they are so desperate to get in

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Speaker 2: that team and it means so much to them and

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Speaker 2: to win it means so much to them. And I

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Speaker 2: think that there is a way to monetize it better.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's a way to you know, get it. Okay,

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Speaker 2: Tennis Channel has it on, but I think that a

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Speaker 2: bigger network could have it where you're providing more money

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Speaker 2: for the players. You're selling it a little bit differently,

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Speaker 2: like Dave, like I sit and watch Ryder Cup, in

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Speaker 2: Tolheim Cup all the topic.

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Speaker 1: I love it if a different network added, if it

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Speaker 1: was an NBC, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because it just gives you a bigger audience and therefore

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Speaker 2: you're you know, you're going to generate way more money because.

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Speaker 1: You think yourself, you're putting it in front of a

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Speaker 1: generalist audience, yes, exactly, which maybe doesn't have the tennis

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Speaker 1: IQ and therefore the opportunities for storytelling and let's.

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Speaker 2: Get so open. It's a perfect example. Most people that

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Speaker 2: watch the US Open don't watch tennis at all through

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Speaker 2: the year. It's it's the same in Australia. No one

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Speaker 2: gives a shit about tennis in Australia from February first

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Speaker 2: till January first, and then all of January. The only

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Speaker 2: thing people care about in Australia is the Australian and

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Speaker 2: the tennis. That's all they care about. And they a

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Speaker 2: little bit of cricket, a little bit of you know,

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Speaker 2: that's about it really and then it's just tennis, tennis,

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Speaker 2: tennis sense if you.

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Speaker 1: Go out in Australian football, No, it's.

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Speaker 2: Not it's not national. I don't think it's on that

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Speaker 2: time of the year.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to say that because that's so I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it is and they don't plan to

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Speaker 1: learn uzzie rules.

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Speaker 2: That's how long I've lived out of Australia. It's not

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Speaker 2: going on at that time of the year. It's in

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Speaker 2: the winter. But but the Australian Open is all anyone

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Speaker 2: cares about, and it's on every single TV in a

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Speaker 2: bar in Australia, so it's the same. So I think

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Speaker 2: that there's an opportunity to do something bigger with it,

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Speaker 2: and and for the players it's it would be so

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Speaker 2: much more special for them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well and that's from this topic. Bravo Ragazzi.

401
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,679
Speaker 1: Great job Italy. They now have the Italian title. In

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Speaker 1: the women.

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to win the tour finals and the men.

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00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,200
Speaker 2: I think the men are going to win it again.

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Speaker 2: I mean to imagine the record I think is five

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Speaker 2: with the bullets.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, do if they don't even have Musstian Center

408
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Speaker 1: this time.

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Speaker 2: I want to get to the WTA finals. And you

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Speaker 2: brought up an interesting thing with me in a general

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Speaker 2: discussion the other day about what is the importance of

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Speaker 2: the WTA and ATP finals, particularly the WTA finals, and

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Speaker 2: you're you actually said they shouldn't they just shouldn't have it.

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Speaker 2: And I started thinking about a little bit, and I said,

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Speaker 2: I thought about it from a player's perspective. It's a

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Speaker 2: real it's an honor to get in. It's something that

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Speaker 2: we play for. Or actually players don't really think about

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Speaker 2: the WTA finals. Well, this is my thought anyway, people

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Speaker 2: don't really think about the WTA finals till about August

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Speaker 2: and then they go, oh shit, I'm on the bubble

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Speaker 2: of the WTA finals, right, So if you're a Sabalanca,

422
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Speaker 2: you're probably not thinking about the WTA finals because you

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Speaker 2: just know you're going to make it. And I have

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Speaker 2: to say in the years that, like I dominated in doubles,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about the WTA finals because I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to be in it, because I knew I

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Speaker 2: was going to have the results that would get me

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Speaker 2: in there. Right, And if you're good enough, like an

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Speaker 2: eager Shyon Tech or you know, a Sabalanca or Coco Goth,

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Speaker 2: the likelihood is you're going to get in almost every

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Speaker 2: year that you play because you're that good, right, consistently good.

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Speaker 2: You're making semis and finals of slams which hold the

433
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 2: most points, you're winning smaller tournaments. That's gonna you know

434
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 2: what I mean, it's the bubble people like Andreva or

435
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 2: whatever that are like, am I going to get into

436
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 2: w TA finals? And there any thinking about it in

437
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,719
Speaker 2: like July August, when they have had three major titles

438
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 2: that have been played where they get the most of

439
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 2: the bulk of their points, right, So I'm Mattie Keith,

440
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 2: for example, would have started the year going, oh man,

441
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm maybe probably gonna make the WTAO finals

442
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 2: because I want a major already, which is a lot

443
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:30,719
Speaker 2: of points.

444
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 1: So I just ask.

445
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 2: You, Like I started thinking about it. I was like, yeah,

446
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: it's actually not the dumbest idea.

447
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: And also, wait, what I do to kill it?

448
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,159
Speaker 2: Not having it? But what can we do outside of

449
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 2: that to make it more interesting if we do have it?

450
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: To be clear, I prefer the WTA finals to the

451
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,640
Speaker 1: ATP finals.

452
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, but do you like is it because you okay,

453
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 2: it's for three reasons. Okay, here before you end, because

454
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,720
Speaker 2: I want to get this out. I started thinking about

455
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 2: what you said, and I said, okay, how do we

456
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: make it better? And then I started thinking, yeah, we

457
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 2: got to get it back at a Madison Square Garden,

458
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 2: which is where I played, or you know, at a

459
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 2: Staples Center or a big Ei the O two in

460
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 2: London or somewhere in Paris or somewhere in Italy or

461
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:22,359
Speaker 2: somewhere somewhere where tennis is beloved Canada, right, And I

462
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 2: was thinking, to do we get rid of the round

463
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 2: robin format, So it's okay, so you like that. So

464
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: I was thinking, why don't we just make it a

465
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 2: full tournament, Like, just make it a tournament, knock out

466
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 2: and be done.

467
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 1: I my issues with both tour finals, and I vastly

468
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: prefer the WTA finals for reasons that I'll go into.

469
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: But my issue with both the finals, and I've said

470
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: this before and it's not dissimilar from the conversations we

471
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: were just having about the team competitions is what's the narrative?

472
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 1: What are the steaks? I understand the stakes. And you

473
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,640
Speaker 1: got to this a little bit when you were talking

474
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 1: about why if you're a bubble person, in addition to

475
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,880
Speaker 1: the honor, you would want to get motivated and have

476
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 1: a real fight to the finish, as Rabakina and Mira

477
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: Andrevia did this year, to see who of the two

478
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: of them was going to make it in or the

479
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: drama that surrounded so MESSEETI a felix O j Lasim

480
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 1: and Djokovic who sat on his his desires until it

481
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 1: was you know, revealed that he wasn't going to play

482
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: the whole time. So to me, it's the money. I mean,

483
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: the winner of those.

484
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, of course it's some money massively.

485
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: Rewarded, and I'm not even saying they shouldn't be. The

486
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 1: tours get enriched by this, and I like the idea

487
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: that you know, tennis is productized, and you know there

488
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 1: isn't in some cases a narrative to this, which is

489
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: outside of the slams, who's the best? The fact that

490
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: it's always on the same surface is a little bit

491
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,679
Speaker 1: disingenuous because you're always going to have people who do

492
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: better on that in worlds where.

493
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 2: You have never won an a t P finals, Yeah,

494
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: it was just what correct.

495
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 1: So for me, the idea of having let's get down

496
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: to the brass tacks and have a tournament of only

497
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: the best where people actual care, as opposed to an

498
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: exhibition where you're maybe having a tournament or an event

499
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: of only the best, but they don't care. And the

500
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: people who say like, yeah, but it doesn't matter if

501
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: you actually really closely watch the sport and I don't

502
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: care if you do or don't, that's fine, but you

503
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: can tell that they're not trying as hard. And so

504
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: for me, I actually want to see them. You know what,

505
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: does their trying understand as are the ATP finals. But

506
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm saying people who say that they like to watch

507
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: exhibitions because they get to pay to watch the best

508
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 1: players in the world. It's like you're getting to pay

509
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 1: them make an appearance, You're not getting to watch them

510
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: play their hardest. So there's a difference there. And part

511
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: of it is the fact that it just happens so

512
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: far after that the narrative has been lost and it

513
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 1: doesn't matter anymore. And I think that this is not

514
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: just an issue for the tour finals. It's an issue

515
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: for the entire fall season, which is to say, tennis

516
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: needs to be shortened. So that's setting that aside when

517
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 1: it happens matters greatly because by the time that it happens,

518
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: tennis nobody cares. Is off of the conscientiousness yea. The

519
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: second thing is I actually quite like the round robin

520
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: format because you get to see all these different matchups

521
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: that a tournament would not necessarily provide because of the

522
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: structure of the draw. And the third reason, and I

523
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,879
Speaker 1: actually sort of I take your point. I think the

524
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: crowd is a good one, and I understand that you

525
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: actually mean it. I think, to me, what's actually interesting

526
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: is that it goes to the different parts of the

527
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: world where maybe tennis doesn't have a strong tradition, and

528
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: I get the chance to see how tennis is interpreted

529
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: and marketed and played in different arenas like I would love.

530
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: For sure, I don't mind the locations you suggest, but

531
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: they're overwhelmingly white, they're overwhelmingly English, English speaking, and there

532
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: they've been rewarded with lots and lots of tournaments forever.

533
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 2: I know where this is going. Someone wants a tournament

534
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 2: in South America.

535
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: I definitely want to tournament South America, but I also

536
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: want a tournament maybe that roves and I understand the

537
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: sponsorship challenges of selling something that moves. I mean, I

538
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: think the World Cup has four years to get its

539
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: location in sponsorships and facilities in order. Where we've seen

540
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: this be an issue for people. But like I said,

541
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: I was much more engaged in the WTA finals this

542
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: year as opposed to the ATP, partially the depth, partially

543
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 1: because it was set in Saudi Arabia too. It's a

544
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: bummer that there's no fans, but also there weren't any

545
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: fans when they did it in Asia, and at least

546
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, I get to see them doing cool photoshop

547
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: shoots with hawks and stuff and dune bugging out in

548
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: the dunes. Like the content, the stories were a little

549
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 1: bit more interesting to me. Osterbur was there like cool

550
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: to me. Also, the fact that the women's Tour has

551
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 1: a ton more depth makes it more interesting. And third,

552
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: the results weren't necessarily a foregone conclusion, so the matches mattered. Yea,

553
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: I about stakes, and I think the most important thing

554
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: isn't actually where you put it or the fact that it's,

555
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, the format. I think the most important thing

556
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,239
Speaker 1: is just the schedule is impossible. And I think the

557
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,479
Speaker 1: WTA and the ATP, and I've said this to anybody

558
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: who cares to hear, is not necessarily that they should

559
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: kill it. I just think neither of those entities have

560
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: enough brand equity that they can coast on their own audience.

561
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 1: So nobody knows outside of tennis where the WTA is

562
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: or the ATP. I'm not sure we should teach them,

563
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: but we definitely have to if something's going to be

564
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: branded the WTA Finals, It's like, what is that a

565
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: dental conference in Old Nebraska? Yeah, you know, like that's

566
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: not a brand. I know what Wimbledon is I know

567
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: what maybe? So for me that is all part of

568
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 1: the one year and it was. It would have been

569
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: awesome if it had been an El Paso exactly to

570
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: my point, because that's a border city. You'd get Warrez,

571
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: you get them going on day trips eating delicious food.

572
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: Instead it was in.

573
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 2: So you're all about the marketing, it's all.

574
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: About the story. If I don't care about it, then

575
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: how can I tell other people who are casually interested

576
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: at the best in tennis they care about it too.

577
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 2: I listen, I think in Saudi Arabia they have one

578
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: more year?

579
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: Is that?

580
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,479
Speaker 2: Is that right? It was one more year to and

581
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: then so what's the conversation, What is the conversation? Where

582
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 2: is it going new?

583
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: And I again, I don't want to put this all

584
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: in the feed of the wt A. The ATP Tour

585
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: finals are in a tennis mad country in Australia. I

586
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: love I mean in in Italy. I loved it when

587
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: it was at the O two Arena. Not because I

588
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: think London needs more tennis events. They already have the

589
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: biggest life Labor Cup next year. I can't get it.

590
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't have the energy to debate the Labor Cup.

591
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: But I think for me the I'm not excited about

592
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: Italy and Turin either. I think that's had plenty of

593
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: There's nothing really interesting about that city. I'd rather see

594
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: it on TV where people are skiing down their Italian

595
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: Alps than looking at the indoor of court.

596
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 2: Bill Gates buys it and puts it in Seattle.

597
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be awesome, it'd be great. It would

598
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: be all also most incredible. And this is again an

599
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: opportunity because I like to make sure we're presenting ideas

600
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: alongside criticism. Join them, join them, have a mixed event.

601
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 2: I think Canada would be great as well. I think

602
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 2: it's a tennis mad country and I think that that

603
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: would be a great spot.

604
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: Also, does it have to be indoors? And I realize

605
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: it does if it's in No.

606
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 2: But it's at the end of the year. So where

607
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: do you go, you know, other than South America or Australia.

608
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean not that the way I was thinking about

609
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: this too, because the other way sports deal with US

610
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: is they have an all Star break in the middle

611
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: of the season.

612
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you can't do it in the middle of season.

613
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's good point I'm not saying you can,

614
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: but I don't. I think part of it is the

615
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: fact that this is broken until we fix the season.

616
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, once again, we haven't sold anything.

617
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get to see that they should join

618
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 1: the events. That's actually a pretty good idea.

619
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: Or have the ATP and WTA join.

620
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, just called the tour finyls the mecha of either

621
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: of those brands. Who will find anyway?

622
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: Man, can you imagine how big that would be?

623
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: Exactly? Would be huge, be awesome, and you get to

624
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: watch everyone in one.

625
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 2: Place, yeah, and one place destination, make it nice exactly. Okay.

626
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: So the lawsuit with players that are playing college tennis,

627
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: and recently the Reese who won the NC double as

628
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 2: again in singles has is one of the complaints. One

629
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: of the players, along with Maya joint the Ossie who's

630
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: doing very well on the tour now, is suing the

631
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: NC double A's because they want to retroacle actively go

632
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: back and get the price money that they were given

633
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: basically the US Open or any autonomous that they played.

634
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: And they feel like, and I want your take on

635
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: this because you play college tennis and I did text

636
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: Lisa Raymond on this who was one of the great

637
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 2: She's the collegiate athlete and arguably, outside of maybe Ben

638
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: Shelton now and maybe Danielle Collins and Kathy Jordan like

639
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: long time ago, one of the great college players of

640
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 2: all time. And you know, I'll read to some of

641
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: the text messages that she wrote to me about it.

642
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to know what she hears. But

643
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: let's just make sure we're setting this up so as

644
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: everyone probably knows, the NCAA, which is the National Collegiate

645
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 1: Athletic Association which mandates and sort of facilitates all of

646
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: the college athletics play in all sports, has certain rules

647
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: about what constitutes amateur versus professional, and one of the

648
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: in addition to make sure you can in fact read

649
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: and write when you get to college, which is a

650
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: pretty low standard because I definitely met some athletes at

651
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: Mazoo who were questionable on both of those.

652
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 2: One tennis players. I know, I won't tell you what college,

653
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: and I won't tell you who told me, but you

654
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: could probably wink wink figure it out. The one of

655
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: the is on the tennis teams got a track scholarship

656
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: in a really good tennis player like played pro in

657
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: the end, I no, it wasn't Lisa Raymond, but it

658
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: was just like, what are we doing here?

659
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: That doesn't make any sense?

660
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah to me, got a track scholarship? Did one? Did

661
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: actually run?

662
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: Like nobody was paying attention she played on. I remember

663
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: going to the gym, the college athlete gym, Miszoo, and

664
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: I remember somebody being like, no, no, you can't come in

665
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: this for athletes only. And I was like, oh, yeah,

666
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: I know, I'm on the tennis team. They're like, we

667
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: have a tennis team.

668
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: Well, that's just embarrassing.

669
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,959
Speaker 1: It was embarrassing. But the NCAA to make sure that

670
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: players remain eligible, as they call it, for scholarship, make

671
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: sure that you haven't accepted up to a certain amount

672
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: of money as a professional.

673
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: Thousand dollars is there, and that's basically for reimbursement of

674
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: travel and expenses.

675
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: And that has changed. I think the number has changed

676
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: because I remember being much less. I remember I had

677
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: to give back my seventy five dollars that I want

678
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: as a finalist of the Atlanta Open in nineteen ninety seven,

679
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: I believe it was I lost to Juel Peterson very fast, Wow,

680
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: who was a college standout athlete. I believe, yep, my

681
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: pro earnings added up to less than a dinner out

682
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: in New York City nowadays. But anyway, what do I

683
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: think about this? I think the NC double A has

684
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: made so much money, profoundly, so off of the backs

685
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: of astute and athletes, that it's sort of outrageous that

686
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: there is a limit at all. That said, I much

687
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: like I have questioned, what is the purpose of Nile No,

688
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: what is the purpose of things like the refinals or

689
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: the team competitions. I'm not sure what the purpose of

690
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: college athletics is. I say that having been money. But

691
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: let me let me elucidate a little bit more. What

692
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean college athletics. Getting a tennis scholarship was transformative

693
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: for my life. I would not have been able to

694
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: go where I went, I would not have been able

695
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: to afford it. I would have gone to at best

696
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,719
Speaker 1: a state school. And the opportunities afforded to a lot

697
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: of people, particularly women, because of things like Title nine,

698
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: are generationally impactful. I've talked about this. I hope this

699
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: is not the first time you heard me talk about this.

700
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: Current administration is listening to this, becare is not up

701
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: pulling funding from so many of these they're definitely not

702
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: female oriented anyway, go on, keep going, so we get political,

703
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: yeah don't. But for me, the purpose of college athletics

704
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: was theoretically to create more well rounded human beings coming

705
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: out the other side of college. It wasn't to necessarily

706
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: make money for the school, although that's obviously what it

707
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: is now, and so it makes me wonder, especially in

708
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: the wake of NIL, which is the system that allows

709
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: athletes at the collegiate level to make money off of

710
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: their own likeness and their own You know, if I

711
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: wanted to sell a trading card, for example, with myself,

712
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: which would never happen, But if I were a very

713
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: amazing basketball player, for example at a popular school that

714
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: very reasonable, or have a senator trishoo, or go play

715
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: in the summer league.

716
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: It's keeping a lot of certain athletes in college.

717
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: That's right, instead of going and making the very smart

718
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: and inevitably sort of risky decision to leave so that

719
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: they could make money. I think this whole system needs

720
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: an overhaul. The insight of LA is one of the

721
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: least credible organizations, and I want us to completely rethink

722
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: with the point of having athletic scholarships in America is

723
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: especially when you look at the fact that no other

724
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: nations reciprocate. If I were somebody who was wanting to

725
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: go overseas to play college tennis, now it doesn't exist

726
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: in Astrola, and because of that, the tennis world ends

727
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: up being largely comprised of non American players. I don't

728
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: think that that's a bad thing. I think it's a

729
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: wonderful thing. In fact, most of my collegiate teammates were

730
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: not born in America. I was not, in fact born

731
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: in America. I'm an American citizen, but I grew up

732
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: partially in Canada with a Canadian passport. So I'm not

733
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 1: going to do the sort of typical answer being like

734
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: this is outrageous in NC double A should reconsider. Although, yes,

735
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: this is outrageous, the NC douable a should consider. But

736
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: I actually think it's a much more interesting conversation to

737
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: sort of say, what is the point of college scholarships.

738
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: What's the point of having teams other than enriching the school.

739
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: And when you get to a school like Alabama or

740
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: a lot of these SEC schools that are making profound

741
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: amounts of money, much more so as sports participants than

742
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: they are as educational infrastructural systems. What is the point

743
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: and have we been totally compromised? Like, I think this

744
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: is a much bigger conversation.

745
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I didn't I actually didn't know we were

746
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: going there with that answer, But that's.

747
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know you're gonna bring it up. But my

748
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: main feelings of my feelings of college tennis are more like, ugh,

749
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you think I.

750
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: Mean, Lisa is Lisa basically you know, you know, by

751
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: winning the NC double as, you're basically getting a wild

752
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: card into the US Open, and you know that should

753
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: be enough. But also at the same time, yes, you are,

754
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: but you're not being able to be able to take

755
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: the money for that.

756
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: So I think in a world where none of this

757
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: was monetized and the you know, Herbard Yale game was

758
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: the sort of be all and end all of like

759
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: college athletics, and I'm thinking, like fifty eighty years ago,

760
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: like this was a non entity. This wasn't a big deal.

761
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: And I think the fact that no other nations do

762
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: this is also sort of interesting.

763
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's funny because people, you know, say

764
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 2: to me you know, did you play in college And

765
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: I said no, No, I went pro. I was seventeen eighteen,

766
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: on the road, already playing in Europe and playing in

767
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: the US, and I didn't have an option to go

768
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: to college in the U and Australia. I mean, it's

769
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: university and you go twelve hours a day to university.

770
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: You've made the decision to not pursue athletics if you

771
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: were in university in most places outside of America.

772
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, for everybody else, it's that's

773
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: why you do get a lot of imports from Australia

774
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: from Europe going to college in the US because there

775
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: still able to play the sport they love and get

776
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: an education at the same time. I mean, listen, there's

777
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: an argument to be made for both to have kids

778
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 2: going to school getting in it, like yourself, getting an education,

779
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: as well as being able to still play the sport

780
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: that they love, staying in shape, all of those things.

781
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: You know, you would argue that some people doing certain

782
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: sports in college are not getting the greatest education because

783
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: their professors are like, it's fine, you're the you know,

784
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 2: you're the linebacker of our Alabama team. We about your brow,

785
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: But I do think that there's you know, something to

786
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: be said, and there are some institutions like I would

787
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 2: say a Yukon for example, women's basketball. Gino Arima would

788
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: want his athletes to still be having a good ged

789
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 2: having good you know, schooling and GPA, sorry where they

790
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: come from GPA, and to be able to have the

791
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: opportunity to because not everyone's going to turn pro and

792
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: make money, so make sure you get your education.

793
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: I understand. I mean most college athletes don't play pro.

794
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: And for that reason, when I was more attempted to,

795
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 1: when I attempted to learn at my universe city, I

796
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: was met with a lot of pushback and they're like, oh, well,

797
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: why don't you just like pick an easier major that

798
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: doesn't have so much requirement of your time? And I said, well,

799
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: that's the reason I'm here. Yeah, but I don't think

800
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: that's uncommon.

801
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: No, it's not uncommon, absolutely not. I will say this though.

802
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: The one thing about it is, you know, I think

803
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: that you already have the opportunity. So I don't agree

804
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: on them getting the prize money. I actually don't you.

805
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: Think they should not.

806
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: I don't think they should issue. I think they should

807
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 2: be I think that there's a way to take the

808
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: money and put it into something that might help them,

809
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: whether it be I mean, I'm sort of thinking on

810
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: the fly here, but maybe maybe into a retirement fund

811
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: or something like that. But they don't actually get the

812
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: actual cash, so maybe after college they can get a

813
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: certain installments or whatever. Yeah, after they've finish college. They

814
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 2: don't get it right up front, but I think that

815
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: they I think that they should get it in some way,

816
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 2: But I don't know about the cash handouts. Soon as

817
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: the tournament's over here, it's just seventy thousand dollars. I

818
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: think maybe after college, once they've left, they are able

819
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: to get installments of it in a sort of a

820
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 2: retirement sort of fund, and it grows from that. To me,

821
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: would actually make a lot more sense for them. Some

822
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: people might say, well, they that money will help them

823
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: be able to provide for them to maybe go pro

824
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: or get a coach or all all those things. But

825
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: at the same time, they're getting a free education, which

826
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: hopefully will benefit them for the rest of them.

827
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: They're getting free coaching whether it's good enough.

828
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 2: If they're good enough, they're going to turn pro and

829
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: be good. Daniel Collins comes to mind a Lisa Raymond,

830
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: Emma Navarro, Ben Shelton. Yeah, I forgot about Emma cam Nory.

831
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: It also you look at this situation and go, guys,

832
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: you're getting free education, you're getting a degree, you are

833
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: possibly going to get money. But also you do have

834
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: an opportunity to make money on nil. So you do

835
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to make money at college. You're just

836
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: not doing it well enough.

837
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: I mean doing it from a tennis perspective, Like we

838
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: can't get people to kiss pro tennis, much less college tennis.

839
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: I don't think that's right now, but there's.

840
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 2: Still an opportunity. You can still get a local car dealership,

841
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: or you can get someone who knows that was an

842
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: opportunity which you could not do ten years ago.

843
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: I don't just agree, I think this is a much

844
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: larger conversation though about like when I was a freshman

845
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: and I played against somebody who was twenty five who

846
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: spent some years on the pro tour and had to

847
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: give all the money back, but she was basically a

848
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: pro athlete. I remember thinking, I'm eighteen playing a twenty

849
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 1: five year old from.

850
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: Brazil and she's crushing me.

851
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: Actually, in that case, it was double's I was hanging

852
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: in but it was nuts, like it was, yeah, you

853
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: were two different we had traveled such a different path.

854
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's seven years. So it's sort of like enormous amount.

855
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: Is this person getting an education? Here is this person

856
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: biding time until they can go pro Like? It just

857
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: sort of questioned, like, this is a state school supporting

858
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: this person to get really good at tennis better than

859
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: they were already, and like to what are we doing here?

860
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: To what? Yeah, kind of like to what and you

861
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: know again fair is fair, Like that's she was great,

862
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: but it just sort of raised the.

863
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: Question to make it in the pros she didn't know. Okay,

864
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 2: So Caitlin, let's get into the ways of something else

865
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: which I love to do, especially with you, and we

866
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: will get into this hole like wrapping up of the

867
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: year because Petco's coming back in town and we really

868
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,479
Speaker 2: wanted to get into the whole, you know, just nuts

869
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: and bolts of what happened this year. Tennis Channel have

870
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: a great thing on right now where they're going through

871
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,280
Speaker 2: the entire love. Yeah, it's great. Right, we have Carlos

872
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 2: Aurkairez playing Draper right now in Indian.

873
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: Wells and but so much happened this year, though it's

874
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: nice to have a recap. Yeah, recap, yes, so we

875
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: will get into that. But I also like when there's

876
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: not so much tennis on because we can use the

877
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: officeason to talk about this great stuff like what should

878
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: happen with these big questions around the sport, what should

879
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: different governing bodies do? And yes, we do have an

880
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: interesting sort of turn of events here.

881
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just kind of got on the slide. The

882
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: PTPA has come out and had a bit of a

883
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: win against Tennis Australia. They have agreed. We don't know

884
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: much about what was in the context of the agreement,

885
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: but basically they have agreed to settle with the PTPA.

886
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: You get into the weeds of this stuff, which I love.

887
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts on what Tennis Australia have done

888
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: with this situation?

889
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: Well, I will say I am certainly not qualified to

890
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: talk about like anybody's you know, kinetic chain with you,

891
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: so I all I can do is admire some of

892
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: the players and talk about what I like. But you know,

893
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: with the exception maybe of whose backhand was the prettiest,

894
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I.

895
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 2: Did see Before we get to this Papa, think I

896
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: did see that you sent me an email from a gentleman.

897
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 2: It was, yes, yep, about Justin Enna's backhand.

898
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: Now again, please take don't take the bait. Please, we don't.

899
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: I just want to please.

900
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: I just want to make sure people understand.

901
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: Pike a deep breath.

902
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: Justin Enna had the most aggressive one handed back end

903
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: in the history of women's tennis. She could step in,

904
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: she could crunch a return, she would hit the shit

905
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: out of this thing. It was like unbelievable how hard

906
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 2: she could hit this one handed back end, and especially

907
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: for someone who was Caitlin' size, not very tall. But

908
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 2: there's a difference between an aggressive, beautiful, attacking, one handed

909
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: back end and what I'm talking about, which is a

910
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 2: beautifully constructed shot. Okay, look, that's the difference. And her

911
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: the beauty of her backhand was the power and the

912
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: aggressiveness and how she could hit it. But it's not

913
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: and it was not, and it will never be as

914
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: beautiful as a Carlos Suarez Navarro, as an Emily Moresmo. Ever, well,

915
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 2: I do like just a fact.

916
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: I do like the fact that you've talked about Rambo

917
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: Serla's Navara, who was one of my favorites. Yeah, that

918
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: was And you wonder why I call you, I'm calling

919
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 1: her that. Check out her headband mullet Era really was great.

920
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: It was very uh, I mean, come on, that's great.

921
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful shot.

922
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 2: But that but those were that's a different between you

923
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: know what it is. That's a difference between you know,

924
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: a painting.

925
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: They called this gilding the lily beautiful just and Pollock.

926
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: It's just like Pollock, just throw on playing against the thing.

927
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: This is a little different carry on for that one.

928
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: The ptp A, the Professional Tennis Players Association to RECAP

929
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: launched a couple of years ago, has not had the

930
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: most overt mission strategic plan. They've thrown a lot of

931
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: grenades in a lot of different directions.

932
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 2: They've sort of had I have had a lot of

933
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 2: power behind them though with Novak and with a lot

934
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: of money Phil bill Ackman.

935
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: Has funded them. They've had at times very interesting players

936
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: align themselves with them. You said Novak vast Pospisil was

937
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: one of them on stuburr at one point was involved.

938
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: You know, they're they're not not relevant, but it's been

939
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: hard to kind of ascertain what their strategy has been

940
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: to essentially create a non union players union. I think

941
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 1: a player's union is necessary. Don't know why they haven't

942
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: embraced that, but setting that aside, what they have done

943
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: is file a ton of lawsuits and a lot of

944
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: different directions, some of which the players have signed on to,

945
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: some of them they haven't. And one of them, the

946
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: most recent one I think they launched earlier this year,

947
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: not only against the Tennis Australia but against all of

948
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: the Slam. Some details we know, which is that they

949
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: wanted more transparency, they wanted more pricemary sharing, They wanted

950
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: to understand us some more, say in the scheduling, you

951
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: know things that you look at the players and you

952
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: say that seems fair.

953
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely, But again, the.

954
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: Way that they've gone about it, the way they've sort

955
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: of played the politics of this have been opaque at best.

956
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: So it was pretty surprising to see that the Tennis

957
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: the first.

958
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: First bit about it was when they came out and

959
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: it was just like all.

960
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: Guys, and I was like, guys there about years ago.

961
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: Years ago. You know, that was their first misstep when

962
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: they had just all guys and just like guys. You

963
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: got to have the cults be a part of this.

964
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 2: The women be a part of this as well.

965
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: See taking a picture with only men on the center

966
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: court to launch their organization at the US Open was

967
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,919
Speaker 1: It's the play is a bit of a head scratcher. Again,

968
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: I keep talking about this narrative matters, the stakes matter.

969
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: If you're not communicating what your plan is. You can

970
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: have the best plan with the smartest people involved, but

971
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: it will not get traction. I don't know why it's

972
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: taken the folks in the tennis place to learn this,

973
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: but you know, no time like the present, so anyway,

974
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: they An announcement was made this week saying the PTPA

975
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: in Tennis Australia was close to a deal, to an

976
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: arrangement to settle, and I think, without knowing what that

977
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: settlement looks like, I have to imagine that it includes

978
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 1: at the very least, giving the players some more say

979
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,959
Speaker 1: about how and when they play during the Happy Slam,

980
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: which is coming up very soon, so the next one

981
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: on the calendar in Melbourne late January, and that they

982
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: have more percentage of the profits made, which again we've

983
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot. The Slams make tons of money.

984
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: They pay the players tons of money, but as a percentage,

985
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: they pay the players a ton less money than all

986
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: the other tournaments do with a few exceptions, but they

987
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: are not partaking in a lot of these profits, and

988
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: therefore the players want to make more hay out of

989
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: the fact that the Slams are making hay with their product,

990
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: which is playing. So again, without knowing exactly what the

991
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 1: settlement looks like, the politics of it are really interesting

992
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: to me because I think more than anyone else, it

993
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: seems like tournament director Craig Tyley, who you know and

994
00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: I want you to ask him these questions when you

995
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: se him in Melbourne, has probably one of the closer

996
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: relationships to the players. Would you say that's true.

997
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, you know, it's interesting now, I'd

998
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 2: say Eric Bouderach now being just given the head job

999
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 2: of tournament director at the US Open, I think I

1000
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 2: would argue that he has one of the better relationships

1001
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 2: now with the players as well, So we'll see where

1002
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 2: this goes from his standpoint. But I would say that

1003
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: you know, interestingly to me and I don't know the

1004
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 2: details as well, we are speculating and guessing.

1005
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: No, but respond to what I'm talking about literally just

1006
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 1: Craig Tyler has a good relationship to the players. He does.

1007
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: Therefore, I think that he is aware of they're correct

1008
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 2: in a lot of these things, and I think that

1009
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: he is trying his best to make sure that he's

1010
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: appeasing the players and appeasing the people that are the

1011
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 2: reason why the tournament exists.

1012
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: And I think because of that, the Tennis Australia decision

1013
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: making we've seen is out in front a lot of times.

1014
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 2: I would I would argue that, I think that and

1015
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: again we're speculating, but I think Tennis Australia and Craig

1016
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: Tyler to get ahead of this, and I think that

1017
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: they're trying to get ahead of it knowing that it's

1018
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: probably going to be a problem if they were to

1019
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 2: go to court or if they were to open up

1020
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: their books and they were show everything. They're like, listen,

1021
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: we're going to get ahead of it. We agree that

1022
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 2: we need to profit share a little bit more. We

1023
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 2: understand this. Here's what we're willing to show you, here's

1024
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: what we're willing to give you to you. And also

1025
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: I would argue, and knowing Craig the way I do,

1026
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 2: I would argue that and I don't know anything. I

1027
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 2: haven't spoken to him at all, but I would argue

1028
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 2: that he would sit down and be like, look, this

1029
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: is what we make. And I would argue also that

1030
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: Tennis Australia and the Austraian Open really suffered for a

1031
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 2: number of years with COVID. It was awful for them.

1032
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: They lost a ton of money. They had to They

1033
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 2: were chartering flights for players to do buy and back.

1034
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 2: They played qualifying in the Middle East of the Australian

1035
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: Open during COVID. They were housing every single player in

1036
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 2: hotels and their coaches. They pay for their flights out.

1037
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 2: Tennis Australia and the Australian Open really took a hit

1038
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 2: for a number of years with COVID. It was terrible

1039
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: for them. So I would argue that they probably showed

1040
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: them that, maybe opened their books up and said, look,

1041
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: we're not rolling in the dough like the USDA.

1042
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Or certainly the All England.

1043
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: Certainly the All England Club which alone.

1044
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: Is the most really crtially successful and did need money

1045
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 1: during the COVID because they had the force say having

1046
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 1: pandemic insurance. I mean crazy, but honestly, if any entity

1047
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: of the Slams were the most on the hook for

1048
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: proper sharing, it would probably be Wimbledon for sure. And

1049
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: now and I think where this all goes, which is

1050
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: why the level of analysis is sort of going to

1051
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: be interesting when it becomes apparent what the deal is is.

1052
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: It is hard to imagine now that the other Slams

1053
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: will not either follow suit or face tremendous pressure not

1054
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: to do the same.

1055
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 2: And I would say that Tennis Australia and the Austrain

1056
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 2: Open have been under a bit of extreme pressure from

1057
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 2: the Saudis from what's happening over there with the money

1058
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: that's getting thrown at players, you know, and this is

1059
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: easier too, always these dumb conversations from people saying, well,

1060
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 2: maybe we take this strain open away from that.

1061
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: I'm one of them, we know, That's why I put the.

1062
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 2: Dumb in front of that common But you know, I

1063
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 2: think that they're probably under a bit of stress and

1064
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: a bit of pressure, and they're like, guys, we are

1065
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: truly the Happy Slam because we do want to appease you.

1066
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 2: But at the same time, this is what we are making,

1067
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 2: and this is what we are giving you, and we

1068
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: understand maybe we can give you more, but also understand

1069
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: we're coming from a from a point of view where

1070
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 2: we're trying to make this tournament better every year and

1071
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 2: so for us to do that, we need more finances.

1072
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: They are lucky that they have the help with the

1073
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: Victorian government which really helped them, which understand the importance

1074
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: of the Australian open for finances and financial you know,

1075
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 2: profits of the Victorian government. But in the end, I

1076
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: think Tennis Australia are gettinghead of this and it's going

1077
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,439
Speaker 2: to be interesting to see, as we talked about before

1078
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 2: we even started the pod, where the rest.

1079
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: Will go now. I do want to I do want

1080
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: to say one of the things that I would hope

1081
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: the PTPA does. They haven't listened so far, but what

1082
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: I hope they do is take this victory. I think

1083
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: it's safe to say that it's a victory and be

1084
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: really thoughtful, organized, meticulous and direct about how you then

1085
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: build on it. And I don't know why they haven't

1086
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: created a union. I also would diversify who's funding them.

1087
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: Bill Lackman comes with a lot of baggage and work

1088
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 1: more directly with a broader spectrum of players. They branched

1089
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: out from having only men, at least in front of

1090
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: the camera on their behalf. I think they need to

1091
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: continue doing that to cultivate the next couple generations. And

1092
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: if they don't do that, then the tours need to

1093
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: do it. And in my mind, because the players hold

1094
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: all the power, that's truly this means of production, the

1095
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: labor here, they're providing the product. It goes back to

1096
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: basic economics. Without them, this doesn't work. None of this works.

1097
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: Nobody cares. And so what are we doing to ensure

1098
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: that they're healthy, they're happy, and they don't have a

1099
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: crazy season that's conflicting and making them fly every which

1100
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: way in front of fans who maybe don't know about

1101
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: the sport as much as they should. That's on the

1102
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,720
Speaker 1: governing bodies and the tours and the Slams and everybody

1103
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: else accept the players. They need to just show up

1104
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,439
Speaker 1: and do their job. And so for me, I would

1105
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 1: like to see this create momentum and have more than

1106
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: just sort of you know, the whole ptp of thing

1107
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: has felt a little like, you know, call one nine

1108
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 1: hundred diabetes repair, like ambulance facing a little bit.

1109
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I'll tell you what one thing I

1110
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: do know, and I find this injury. There's a great

1111
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: financial financier guy by the name of Howard Marx, and

1112
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,359
Speaker 2: he has this thing called the Memo which people out

1113
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 2: there that are in finance or in the finance world,

1114
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: are interested in finance. It's one of the great listens

1115
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: for anyone that wants to learn about finance.

1116
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: This is a podcast.

1117
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 2: It's a podcast, and Howard Marks is one of the

1118
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: most incredible. He's probably almost eighty now, but he's like,

1119
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about Warren Buffett's sort of ish

1120
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 2: respect in the finance world. He I had an interesting

1121
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 2: conversation with him because he's a massive tennis fan. But

1122
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: I had a really interesting conversation with One of the

1123
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 2: things is, you know, the role of a you know,

1124
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 2: anyone in finance is to understand what's the next right,

1125
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,959
Speaker 2: what's the next great thing? Like you know, the AI

1126
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 2: bubby or bubble is now getting talked about, but like

1127
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, the companies that were huge were look

1128
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 2: back on who the top companies were twenty years ago,

1129
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 2: what's going to be the next thing in ten years,

1130
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 2: what's going to be the thing after that? In twenty years,

1131
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 2: Like we're talking about people wouldn't have talked about AI,

1132
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 2: you know, twenty years ago.

1133
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: Now it's like sounding like me. I'm always the person

1134
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: who's trying to get you to look at the horizon

1135
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: instead of the way things have been done.

1136
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 2: He's looking at the horizon.

1137
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: Okay, great, anyway, see you all day, you know.

1138
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: But my point is, I think that Craig Tiley is

1139
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: that guy. I think that Craig Tiler's always been that

1140
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 2: guy that's looking ten years from now. He's not looking

1141
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: about what's happening this year. He's thinking about what's going

1142
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 2: to happen in ten years. Now. We see he's going

1143
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: to be at Tennis austray at the Strain Open in

1144
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 2: ten years. I doubt it because my god, I mean,

1145
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,360
Speaker 2: he's been there, he's been there a long time, and

1146
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: he's done some fantastic things, and I would imagine at

1147
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 2: some point he wants to do something else. But he'd

1148
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: be great to run the entire sport.

1149
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Frankly, but if I believed men should hold positions of power,

1150
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: then I would agree with you.

1151
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, Tennis Ausraya has a lot of

1152
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: women that work for him and under him. But my

1153
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 2: point is saying this is that you always have to

1154
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 2: think about the next And I think that Craig, he's

1155
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: playing chess, and others are playing checkers. Sometimes should in

1156
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: this industry. So I think it'll be interesting for me

1157
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: in ten years time, if hopefully you and I are

1158
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 2: still alive and friends. I want to look back in

1159
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,240
Speaker 2: ten years and go, oh my god, remember remember that decision,

1160
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 2: Remember that tournament that we thought would be around forever.

1161
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: You remember that exhibition that now doesn't exist. Oh, tennis

1162
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: is completely Tennis might look like F one. It might

1163
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 2: just be ten, twelve, fourteen major tournaments all around the

1164
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 2: world and we just go boom, boom boom every single week.

1165
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:37,439
Speaker 1: They all matter.

1166
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 2: And then we have a four months off schedule, which

1167
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 2: I think would be frankly great. And then you put

1168
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 2: the Grand Slams and you put five other tournaments or

1169
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:47,800
Speaker 2: ten other tournaments around that, and that's it.

1170
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:48,840
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

1171
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: I think he's playing chess. I think he's getting ahead

1172
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 2: of whatever is coming next. And I think Tennis Australia,

1173
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 2: I don't want to say the weakest, but they are

1174
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: certainly the poorest.

1175
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 1: I think the way to look get them in the

1176
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: context of what you're talking about, which is capitalists. They

1177
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: are the disruptor brand.

1178
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

1179
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: Look, they have to be.

1180
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 2: We had a roof eight, like, come on, we were

1181
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 2: way ahead of it.

1182
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: They have to hustle, and I think because of that

1183
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: they've you know, now what seems to be happening. And

1184
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: this is the through line about everything we're talking about,

1185
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 1: is the folks who've been fat and happy for too

1186
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: long in tennis are realizing. And this was something that

1187
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: I was hoping would happen ever since I started racket

1188
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: a decade ago, which is this sport has so much

1189
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: optimization to go through, so much consolidation to go through,

1190
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: and so much innovation to embrace that it is hard

1191
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 1: not to see this being an inevitability. And I think

1192
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: if you look at it from this angle, none of

1193
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: this stuff is to be feared, and none of these

1194
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: conversations are too difficult to look at. But you really

1195
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: do have to take a holistic approach to say, like, okay,

1196
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: what matters and why? And the only thing to me

1197
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: that matters is the fact that more people are picking

1198
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: up rackets and playing than they or certainly before I

1199
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: started a racket. And you could argue that the eighties heyday,

1200
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: still hasn't been a clipster achieved, which that's that's a

1201
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 1: good goal. And then the second thing is are more

1202
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: people embracing the sport, watching it, traveling to support it

1203
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: and finding it out how amazing it is? And I

1204
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: the answer to those two things isn't. Yes, does this

1205
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: idea serve one or both of those ideas? Then keep

1206
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 1: back to the drawing board, because the mind share that

1207
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: actually tennis is competing against isn't tradition, isn't its own history.

1208
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 1: It's everything else that people are doing with their time.

1209
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you what it is. It's tevid, wrights

1210
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 2: and sponsors, and that's and keeping the fans happy and

1211
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: keeping the play is healthy. So on that note, guys,

1212
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 2: it's been a real because we solved everything. I think

1213
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: we went to Harvard today once again. Well let's go

1214
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 2: to Harvard. Let's go to Penn Princeton zero. What's that

1215
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 2: place out in Malibu?

1216
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: Oh I'll be I'll be at the London School of Economics.

1217
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Yeah, let's get out of the let's get

1218
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 2: out of the US exactly. All right, guys, thanks for

1219
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: joining us again today. We'll see you next week. Oh,

1220
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 2: on everybody, Happy Thanksgiving, and for those that aren't in America,

1221
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 2: happy Thursday, because that's when Thanksgiving is here in the

1222
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 2: US anyway. All right, guys, thanks for joining us today.

1223
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week.

1224
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: Bye bye,