WEBVTT - Can We Cuss on Here? With Layshia Clarendon 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.440 Welcome a good game with Sarah Spain, where we can 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.000 only hope to be as good as shit talker as Marta. 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.280 After the Portland Thorns ended Orlando's twenty four game on 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.080 beaten streak on Friday, team social posted quote, unbeaten records 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.880 are made to be broken. Thanks for coming to Orlando 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.040 with a big fat l in Orlando, and Marta popped 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.880 up in the comments saying, quote, best of luck fighting 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.320 for a place in the playoffs smiley face emoji. So good, 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.240 so good. On today's show, we're going to be chatting 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.839 with recently retired WNBA player Leja Clarendon about their eleven 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.400 year career playing for basically half the league, the grief 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:39.200 that comes with retirement, and finding a home in sport. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.240 We're going to give you more news tomorrow, but today 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.240 we're going to get straight to that interview. It's coming 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:50.200 up right after this joining us now. They played eleven 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.239 seasons in the WNBA, were the first openly non binary 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.920 WNBA player and the first active WNBA player to have 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.200 top surgery. Former vice president of the Players Association, she 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.960 uses all the pronouns and as the founder of the 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.840 Laisia Clarendon Foundation. He played for the Indiana Fever, the 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.280 Atlanta Dream, the Connecticut Son, the New York Liberty, the 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:09.920 Minnesota Lynx, and the Los Angeles Sparks, and is one 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.520 of just four players in Sparks franchise history to put 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.560 up a triple double before announcing his retirement at the 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.120 end of this season. She's a proud Berkeley alum. She 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.679 and her badass wife Jessica Clarendon are enjoying the ups 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.840 and downs of parenthood and we've both collected checks from 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.840 the Golden State Warriors despite never suiting up. It's Leasia Clarendon. 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:31.399 What's up, Lasia, what's up? I love the I played 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.200 for half the league. That's like my favorite part I 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:33.800 really have. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.720 I think I'm saddest about your retirement because I wanted 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.280 to see if you could try to hit every team 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.479 and you had to get moving because the expansion teams 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:42.679 were going to make it a little tougher. 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:46.520 Yeah, it last. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.080 Fair, fair, fair fair. Also regarding the Golden State Warriors, 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.480 I met Lasia for the first time in person when 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:55.800 we did a panel for Women's History Month for the 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:57.640 Warriors that they were going to like do all this 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.720 stuff with and it was so great to be flown 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.440 out and spend time with these incredibly brilliant people. And 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.560 that's when I first learned about your brilliant lesia. And 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.440 then of course it never ran because COVID hit and 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:09.560 my husband always thought it was funny though, that I 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.120 had a check from the Warriors. She was like, you 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.600 got to frame that and just say that You've got 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:14.320 a couple of minutes in garbage times. 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.160 Seriously, that was a bummer because it was a really 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:21.040 dope just group of people and it like, yeah, never shared. 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:22.799 I think about that like every now. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.280 And it's such a good conversation there. 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.880 Floating somewhere in someone's you know, desktop storage. 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.600 Let's talk retirement first. Congratulations eleven seasons in the w 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.680 You've only had a few weeks. But how's retirement treating 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:36.160 you so far? 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:36.720 So far? 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:41.480 It's amazing, no regrets, super at peace. I'm enjoying like 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.680 every minute of waking up and like making my schedule. 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:47.320 Whatever the what can we cost on here? We definitely 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.560 can oh hell yeah, okay, whatever the I want it 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:49.880 to be. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.079 I was like, I know it's you, Sarah, so you guys, Ale, Yeah, 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.280 just making my schedule whatever I want it to be 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.400 every day, which is lovely, which is just you know, 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.880 like getting your body back from sports. Oh that's been 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.320 like the most beautiful part about it. It's like I 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:04.720 don't have to train today. I can just go for 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:06.919 a walk, I could ride my bike, I could do nothing. 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:09.920 That's so relatable, Thank you, because I remember talking to 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.799 like Sue Bird and Megan Rapino and they struggled a 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.560 bit more with that because they liked that part of 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.720 it eventually, but at the very beginning, the first few 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:19.919 days and weeks, they were like, wait, no one's telling 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.040 me what to do. What am I supposed to do? 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.519 If no one's telling me what to do and where 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:26.880 to be? And you're already past that, you're like, well, 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.920 on to Like, ooh, how nice. I don't have to 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.320 go for a run unless I want to. I prechoose 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:31.960 what I want to do. 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.640 I'm a Taurus and I love like opulence and luxury 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:38.720 and taking back. I love to cook, so I've been 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.560 cooking time, going to farmers Market every weekend. 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:43.280 Oh what a dream. 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:44.840 Yeah that sounds so nice. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:52.960 The best ever, eating my best life. You said after 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.240 retiring that you didn't want people to ask you what's next. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.520 You wanted to really be in the moment and appreciate 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.920 what you've accomplished as a player. Have you been able 0:03:59.920 --> 0:04:01.160 to do that? I have. 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.760 I was actually talking to my therapist about that, of one, 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.080 how to answer that question of just like figuring out 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.480 that I am really content right now, but the pressure 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.640 from the outside is that, like people keep asking me 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:13.119 what's next? 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:13.800 What do you want to do? 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:16.520 And I'm actually really content right now, not knowing what's 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.720 next and really just being in this reflective mode. Honestly 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.119 being in a deep amount of grief. Today it feels 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.720 light you, thank god I'm on this podcast. But other 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.200 days it's just been heavy and I've just sobbed and cried, 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.080 and I've felt the heartbreak of like losing a part 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.840 of myself, of like grieving like this death of Lesia 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.120 Claren in the Basketball Player. And so I've really been 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.440 honoring myself, honoring my career. That's been something I've done 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.360 over a decade professionally, but also my entire life of 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.839 just being really in that space of like I did 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:54.280 something for a long time and that's really beautiful, right. 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.000 Yeah, Hi, honey, Oh my god, I love that we're 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.000 getting a little bit of momhood right here. 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:00.000 Yeah, I hear a kid. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.160 Know, we're definitely keeping a little bit of that, and 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:08.640 it's it's too cute, little just hear up the stairs, yep, okay. 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.520 I love and hate the amount of introspection that retirement 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.159 from sports requires at a young age, because most people, 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.000 whatever it is that's their identity, they can usually do 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.559 it for a really long time unless something tragically takes 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:25.800 it away. A cook, a musician, even a dancer, they 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.159 can kind of change the way their body moves, but 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.000 there's only certain opportunities to really participate at the highest 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.800 levels in sport, and that timeline is so short. Is 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.360 there a part of you that when you thought about 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.880 this coming down the pike, you had already started to 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.039 think about a change in identity and how you would 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.640 deal with it. Or are you finding that the finality 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.760 of it has has hit you in a way that 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.440 you know now you're having to process like what do 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.080 I want? And who am I? And what's next? 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.400 Oh God, A little bit of bolt, I would say, 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.880 like I in twenty nineteen was one of my first 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.360 major injuries, and I'm really grateful forward I was playing 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.800 for the Connecticut sign I busted my ankle in practice 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:05.880 and I was out for three months, so just relatively 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.520 like short for a major surgery like an injury. But 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:12.640 what that injury did was I was in therapy at 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.120 the time. It helped me start to examine my relationship 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.760 with basketball, and I like couldn't believe basketball did that 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.440 to me. I was like, how could it let me down? 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.200 How could it? I've given it everything in my whole 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.000 life and it's been the way I've coped and like 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.240 it just I felt mad at basketball, and my. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.160 Therapist was like, Oh, let's talk about this more. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:32.760 And so I started to examine the way I'm in 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.599 relationship with basketball, and I never thought about it that way, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:36.080 even though. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:37.760 I've done it my whole life. It's like my longest 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:39.560 relationship with my entire life. 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.640 And so in that way, I I would say the 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.960 last five years have really prepared me for the moment 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.120 to retire now because I've done a lot of work 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.640 around my identity and around sport and like restructuring my 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.800 relationship to the game of basketball, and I've healed quite 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.200 a bit, and I think that's what allowed me to 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.159 be able to walk away and be like, I know 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:00.599 it's time. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:01.080 This year. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.200 In the last couple of years, I had just been 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.039 wrestling with like, all right, bodies moving slower, like I'm healing. 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.800 I could see some of the you know, toxic parts 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.040 of sports a little more than I could before. I'm 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.240 not using it to cope in the same way I was, 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.520 because I feel, you know, worthy and enough, so I'm 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.160 not like doing these million tasks to like prove to 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.440 myself that I'm worthy. Like I was just healing, and 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.760 now I could see the sport a lot differently, and 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.280 I still loved the game with all my heart, but 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.240 I was able to be like, all right, it's time, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.920 and my body knows it's time. My spirit, yeah, all 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.000 of you was just like it's time and that's okay. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.440 You did such a panel at our espnW summit last 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.400 year with er fight Master and Nicky Hilts, talking about 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:45.200 trans participation in sports and gender and sport, and I 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.720 remember very distinctly you speaking to not only the responsibility 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:54.000 I think of people who identify as women in being 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.960 inclusive and in understanding how to embrace non binary and 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.720 trans people as part of the sort of larger effort 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.960 of Women for Equality, But also you spoke to how 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.720 sport played such a massive role in giving you a 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:14.000 space to feel the most yourself, which was wild because 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.000 it's one of the only truly gendered spaces we have. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.680 Can you talk about that, because I wonder if part 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.560 of the reason you didn't need to cope using basketball 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.040 as much is because you had decided I know my identity, 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:27.960 I know who I am, and I don't need to 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:29.960 look for that in sport, the same way as I 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:30.440 used to. 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.040 Oh my god, yes, I forget how good of an 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.360 interview you are. Yes, yes, I think that was part 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:38.800 of it. Like I just have done so much healing 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.080 and I've I don't need it, like you almost answered 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:46.760 the question for me. I all it felt walking away, 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:50.640 It felt like I completed, like I'm doing some handjest 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.160 or such a fancy but like this full circle moment, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.079 or how people say I finished the chapter of a book, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.280 or I think I might even finish that entire book, 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:00.120 and I think my life is going to be multiple book. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.560 And it was just like, wow, I turned the last 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:04.920 page and it's done, and that's okay. And when you 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.760 finish a really good book sometimes like you're sad because 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.040 you love the characters and what it made you feel 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:11.880 and how you belong and how you related to it, 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.320 all the things. But it's okay because you finish the story. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.559 That's very much how my career feels. Is like I 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:21.920 feel the pain and the ache, and I missed the 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.000 I already missed like my teammates and those interactions, but 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.720 I needed it to belong so much, and I loved 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.320 that I belonged, and I loved that sport gave me, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.800 you know, an outlet for my competitive miss for my fierceness. 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.200 It gave me all the coping tools to deal with 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:43.520 family drama. It gave me, you know, tours around the world. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:46.520 It gave me financial stability, and I'm just out of 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:49.880 place now with my family, with my sense of self, 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.040 with my healing. Even with all the work I've done 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:59.320 outside of sport, building my own brand and my own legacy, 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.120 I would say is like that all happened through sport. 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:02.920 But it's okay for. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.160 Me to like lay down the basketball now that the playing. 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:08.199 Part of it right, and you get to be your 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:12.079 full self everywhere instead of just getting to express parts 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.440 of yourself on the court and relying on that space 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.720 to be included. You know, you and I have spoken 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.400 over a number of different years as you've been on 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:25.400 this journey of identification and self discovery, and you began 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.800 publicly identifying as nonsensegender back in twenty fifteen, but it 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.640 wasn't until December of twenty twenty that you posted Instagram 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.120 about your non binary trans identity and you wrote, quote, 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.199 existing outside of the binary for me is freedom. I've 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.320 learned that my gender doesn't just fit into these molds 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.200 that keep trying to hold it down and box it in. 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.520 I know that my gender will keep evolving because we 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.400 change and grow and shape shift and expand I know that, 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.640 as Andrew Gibson says, my pronouns haven't even been invented yet. 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.320 I know that we all have masculinity and femininity inside 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.920 of us, and mind show up equally and holy and fully. 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.280 I'm wondering if you were worried at that moment that 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.880 identifying as trans and using that word would affect your 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:04.520 status as a player in the w. 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.240 I mean, I yeah, I definitely did at times. I 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:14.040 think more so with surgery I was worried, which came 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.439 in the following year, right of like mixing up my 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.920 years of February, but a lot of There were a 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.080 ton of bills going on at that time, So I 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.640 was a little bit worried about always becoming like the 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.040 the poster child of like the rights fight, Like I 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:32.120 didn't want to become like the wedge issue, like my story, 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.640 my body, my person, becoming like this thing that they 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.199 propped up to be like look see this person, like well, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.320 basically what all the Twitter trolls do. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.079 I didn't want that to become. 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.160 Like knocking on my front door and the way that 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.920 would affect me and my family. But I really struggled 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.280 with going through the bubble season where I knew so 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.400 in the bubble season in twenty twenty was when I 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.360 knew I didn't want to have breast anymore. And I 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.560 was starting to reconcile with like, oh, okay, I'm definitely 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.800 like a trans person, like an umbrella term, like what 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.200 does that mean? I'm gender nonconforming, I'm gender fluid, like 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.400 just all of those words that like sometimes help us, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.320 sometimes make it more confusing, but I definitely knew. I 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.040 was like, all right, I'm a trans person. I don't 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.960 want these breasts anymore. And I really struggled with the 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.760 fact like in the bubble that like that wasn't visible 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.840 and I was one of the main leaders that was 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.120 being seen as like a black queer woman, but wasn't 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:26.960 being seen as like a black. 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:28.200 Queer trans person. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.680 And that was a really hard just like mental reckoning 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.679 for myself. And I wasn't quite ready or didn't know 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.520 how to like say it, like hey, you guys, you 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.440 know the person leading this movement is actually like a 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.760 trans person. And that was a weird I don't even 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.160 know how to word it, just invisible visibility that was 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.160 happening for me internally, And so that December post for 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.040 me was like, no, it's time to just say it 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.000 out loud for myself and to just put it out 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.600 into the ether that like, yes, I'm a trans person, 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:57.400 like let's make it clear. Even though I still had 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.640 breast at the time, I was kind of learning you 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:01.880 didn't have to like, you know, like surgery doesn't make 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:02.520 you who you are. 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:03.360 It was me. 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:04.920 Getting to a place where I'm just like, all right, 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:06.440 I need to say this and put a stake in 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:07.400 the ground for myself. 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.600 Well, not long after, it was January of twenty twenty one, 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.319 that you publicly announced that you had the gender affirming 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.120 top surgery. Can you take us back at that time, 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.079 how did your team, which was the Liberty, your teammates, 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.040 the league, did anyone react to the to the surgery 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.920 and your identity in a way that was unexpected or 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:24.920 did you feel supported? 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.080 I felt super supported, and I did a lot of 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:31.839 the like internal advocacy work for myself, which I hope, 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:34.880 I actually know will blaze a trail for other people 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.320 because it won't be the first time let's say player X, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.800 you know, goes to Terry Jackson or to Kathy to say, hey, 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:43.079 I'm going to have the surgery or I'm going to 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.840 come out as trans like they already have done it. 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.080 But I had to do a lot of that labor 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.480 and talking with Terry, and she was great, and she 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.719 had to get educated in a lot of ways, and 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.600 her and I are super close. Terry Jackson the head 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.920 of the union, And then we would get on a 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:02.240 phone call with Kathy Angle, our commissioner, and talk about like, Hey, 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.199 I'm worried about I'm having this surgery. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:07.839 I'm worried about when I announced it. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.000 Because I want to say it publicly that I'm going 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.320 to become like this big issue. So I just named 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.960 it to them, and Kathy was super firming and was like, 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:18.360 you absolutely belong in our league. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.160 This changes nothing, Like I teared up. I'm getting a 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.200 little choked up right now, like thinking back on it. 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.880 Yeah, because I just hearing the commissioner of your league 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.560 like affirm your identity and who you are and also 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.600 say like you still belong here was really important for me. 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.160 And so yeah, it was happening internally. And then I said, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.040 I need you guys to put out a statement the 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.240 same day I post. 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.600 So then when people look right and say, oh, this 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:45.160 is okay. 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.360 This WA player posted about Chance being Chance having comp surgery, 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:49.520 like then they're going to live to the league and 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.000 the Union and the New York Liberty and be like 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.600 what does this mean? And what it means is like 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.200 what Kathy's statement said, what everyone's statement said was like, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:57.240 I don't know. 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:58.640 It was great, it was beautiful. It was like we 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.720 accept Asia, there's a place for them in this league. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:01.920 Blah blah blah blah. 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.960 And it was like that leadership kind of like it 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.320 didn't give room for question for people to turn it 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.840 into a debate because the leadership was leading the way 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:11.760 it should right when a player like me did come. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.880 Yep oh, and the Liberty sent out a statement using 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.320 pronouns for all the players. So that wasn't about reacting, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.720 It was about being proactive to make sure that people 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.040 were dealing with that professionally and respectfully as well. What 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.360 do you think the biggest most common misconception is about 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.960 you competing as a transperson something that you want to debunk. 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:33.680 I mean, I don't go on Twitter anymore, but that 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:37.760 one's usually like there and I'm like, thanks you really, seev. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.320 Yeah, that's very affirming. Thank you exactly. 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:45.760 I like, yeah, I love it, Thanks, appreciate it. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.880 Er fight Master on their podcast Jocular, which I'm obsessed 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.400 with the other day, said they got in a fight 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.360 with a woman like driving that was driving terribly and 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.240 the woman was like, just because you look like a 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.960 dude doesn't mean you could try, and and Er was like, 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.680 thank you. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:03.600 That's so boring. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.280 Uh do you think? I mean? I think, first of all, 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.160 great that you're not on Twitter listening to that garbage, 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:11.560 but also great that you can't think of one that 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.520 people seem to really get it And understand, and I 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.120 think that's part of the W being such a progressive league. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.080 Do you think there are any changes that the league 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.520 could make that would benefit other trans or non binary 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.080 players in the future as the league continues to grow. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.800 Well, I think one the league and internally the un 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.560 has done a good job having educational sessions, so I 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.920 know that there have been players who've had questions, which 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.680 there's no problem with questions or curiosities. 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.280 There was some players at AU when we. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.400 Had the year I played at Athletes Unlimited, we had 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.360 Chris Moser come and do an educational series and questions. 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:45.960 Players there from the W have questions and it was 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:48.080 interesting because I was able to like witness them because 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.280 normally I'm not in the room, and I specifically when 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.600 we did the WNBA trainings, I said like, I shouldn't 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:57.120 be there because one like people should feel safe enough 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.680 to just ask whatever question might feel silly or dumb 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.000 or defensive even but if I'm in the room, I 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:02.600 don't feel. 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:03.560 Like people will ask that, right. 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.960 So like the educational sessions the W's done have been 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.159 really good, and I made sure to be out of 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.119 that space so they could have them and have the 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.679 room to ask all the things and debunk all the 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.640 myths and whatever they need to say. So I think 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.880 they can continue to have the educational sessions because that's 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:22.600 always been what our league has done. 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.200 From a player's perspective, is like educate ourselves. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.560 First and know that it's okay to ask questions and 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.120 not know and be like, hey, I hear these some 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:31.919 these are some of the rumors, or these are things 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.040 I hear about testosterone, or these are things I hear 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.480 about trans people. So I think the second thing the 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:42.080 league can do is continue to market, not continue to 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:47.440 shift the way we market our gender non conforming players. 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.800 So I think, like there's all these marketing dollars going 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.879 towards the league right now, which is so beautiful, Like 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:56.440 the Skims campaign is amazing, Like I love love seeing 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.480 can bring my teammate in and like everyone just looks 0:17:58.520 --> 0:17:59.120 like amazing. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:00.480 I love seeing like these. 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.359 Really nailed it. It's beautiful but not sexualized and that 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:04.480 was necessary. 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:06.960 Yes, Like that is so much growth. So like these 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.400 high end dollars, Like we're at this place in our league. 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.399 We're like I'm walking in with these two rookies on 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.600