Speaker 1: Welcome a good game with Sarah Spain, where we can
Speaker 1: only hope to be as good as shit talker as Marta.
Speaker 1: After the Portland Thorns ended Orlando's twenty four game on
Speaker 1: beaten streak on Friday, team social posted quote, unbeaten records
Speaker 1: are made to be broken. Thanks for coming to Orlando
Speaker 1: with a big fat l in Orlando, and Marta popped
Speaker 1: up in the comments saying, quote, best of luck fighting
Speaker 1: for a place in the playoffs smiley face emoji. So good,
Speaker 1: so good. On today's show, we're going to be chatting
Speaker 1: with recently retired WNBA player Leja Clarendon about their eleven
Speaker 1: year career playing for basically half the league, the grief
Speaker 1: that comes with retirement, and finding a home in sport.
Speaker 1: We're going to give you more news tomorrow, but today
Speaker 1: we're going to get straight to that interview. It's coming
Speaker 1: up right after this joining us now. They played eleven
Speaker 1: seasons in the WNBA, were the first openly non binary
Speaker 1: WNBA player and the first active WNBA player to have
Speaker 1: top surgery. Former vice president of the Players Association, she
Speaker 1: uses all the pronouns and as the founder of the
Speaker 1: Laisia Clarendon Foundation. He played for the Indiana Fever, the
Speaker 1: Atlanta Dream, the Connecticut Son, the New York Liberty, the
Speaker 1: Minnesota Lynx, and the Los Angeles Sparks, and is one
Speaker 1: of just four players in Sparks franchise history to put
Speaker 1: up a triple double before announcing his retirement at the
Speaker 1: end of this season. She's a proud Berkeley alum. She
Speaker 1: and her badass wife Jessica Clarendon are enjoying the ups
Speaker 1: and downs of parenthood and we've both collected checks from
Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors despite never suiting up. It's Leasia Clarendon.
Speaker 2: What's up, Lasia, what's up? I love the I played
Speaker 2: for half the league. That's like my favorite part I
Speaker 2: really have.
Speaker 1: I think I'm saddest about your retirement because I wanted
Speaker 1: to see if you could try to hit every team
Speaker 1: and you had to get moving because the expansion teams
Speaker 1: were going to make it a little tougher.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it last.
Speaker 1: Fair, fair, fair fair. Also regarding the Golden State Warriors,
Speaker 1: I met Lasia for the first time in person when
Speaker 1: we did a panel for Women's History Month for the
Speaker 1: Warriors that they were going to like do all this
Speaker 1: stuff with and it was so great to be flown
Speaker 1: out and spend time with these incredibly brilliant people. And
Speaker 1: that's when I first learned about your brilliant lesia. And
Speaker 1: then of course it never ran because COVID hit and
Speaker 1: my husband always thought it was funny though, that I
Speaker 1: had a check from the Warriors. She was like, you
Speaker 1: got to frame that and just say that You've got
Speaker 1: a couple of minutes in garbage times.
Speaker 2: Seriously, that was a bummer because it was a really
Speaker 2: dope just group of people and it like, yeah, never shared.
Speaker 3: I think about that like every now.
Speaker 1: And it's such a good conversation there.
Speaker 3: Floating somewhere in someone's you know, desktop storage.
Speaker 1: Let's talk retirement first. Congratulations eleven seasons in the w
Speaker 1: You've only had a few weeks. But how's retirement treating
Speaker 1: you so far?
Speaker 3: So far?
Speaker 2: It's amazing, no regrets, super at peace. I'm enjoying like
Speaker 2: every minute of waking up and like making my schedule.
Speaker 3: Whatever the what can we cost on here? We definitely
Speaker 3: can oh hell yeah, okay, whatever the I want it
Speaker 3: to be.
Speaker 2: I was like, I know it's you, Sarah, so you guys, Ale, Yeah,
Speaker 2: just making my schedule whatever I want it to be
Speaker 2: every day, which is lovely, which is just you know,
Speaker 2: like getting your body back from sports. Oh that's been
Speaker 2: like the most beautiful part about it. It's like I
Speaker 2: don't have to train today. I can just go for
Speaker 2: a walk, I could ride my bike, I could do nothing.
Speaker 1: That's so relatable, Thank you, because I remember talking to
Speaker 1: like Sue Bird and Megan Rapino and they struggled a
Speaker 1: bit more with that because they liked that part of
Speaker 1: it eventually, but at the very beginning, the first few
Speaker 1: days and weeks, they were like, wait, no one's telling
Speaker 1: me what to do. What am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1: If no one's telling me what to do and where
Speaker 1: to be? And you're already past that, you're like, well,
Speaker 1: on to Like, ooh, how nice. I don't have to
Speaker 1: go for a run unless I want to. I prechoose
Speaker 1: what I want to do.
Speaker 2: I'm a Taurus and I love like opulence and luxury
Speaker 2: and taking back. I love to cook, so I've been
Speaker 2: cooking time, going to farmers Market every weekend.
Speaker 1: Oh what a dream.
Speaker 3: Yeah that sounds so nice.
Speaker 1: The best ever, eating my best life. You said after
Speaker 1: retiring that you didn't want people to ask you what's next.
Speaker 1: You wanted to really be in the moment and appreciate
Speaker 1: what you've accomplished as a player. Have you been able
Speaker 1: to do that? I have.
Speaker 2: I was actually talking to my therapist about that, of one,
Speaker 2: how to answer that question of just like figuring out
Speaker 2: that I am really content right now, but the pressure
Speaker 2: from the outside is that, like people keep asking me
Speaker 2: what's next?
Speaker 3: What do you want to do?
Speaker 2: And I'm actually really content right now, not knowing what's
Speaker 2: next and really just being in this reflective mode. Honestly
Speaker 2: being in a deep amount of grief. Today it feels
Speaker 2: light you, thank god I'm on this podcast. But other
Speaker 2: days it's just been heavy and I've just sobbed and cried,
Speaker 2: and I've felt the heartbreak of like losing a part
Speaker 2: of myself, of like grieving like this death of Lesia
Speaker 2: Claren in the Basketball Player. And so I've really been
Speaker 2: honoring myself, honoring my career. That's been something I've done
Speaker 2: over a decade professionally, but also my entire life of
Speaker 2: just being really in that space of like I did
Speaker 2: something for a long time and that's really beautiful, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi, honey, Oh my god, I love that we're
Speaker 1: getting a little bit of momhood right here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I hear a kid.
Speaker 1: Know, we're definitely keeping a little bit of that, and
Speaker 1: it's it's too cute, little just hear up the stairs, yep, okay.
Speaker 1: I love and hate the amount of introspection that retirement
Speaker 1: from sports requires at a young age, because most people,
Speaker 1: whatever it is that's their identity, they can usually do
Speaker 1: it for a really long time unless something tragically takes
Speaker 1: it away. A cook, a musician, even a dancer, they
Speaker 1: can kind of change the way their body moves, but
Speaker 1: there's only certain opportunities to really participate at the highest
Speaker 1: levels in sport, and that timeline is so short. Is
Speaker 1: there a part of you that when you thought about
Speaker 1: this coming down the pike, you had already started to
Speaker 1: think about a change in identity and how you would
Speaker 1: deal with it. Or are you finding that the finality
Speaker 1: of it has has hit you in a way that
Speaker 1: you know now you're having to process like what do
Speaker 1: I want? And who am I? And what's next?
Speaker 2: Oh God, A little bit of bolt, I would say,
Speaker 2: like I in twenty nineteen was one of my first
Speaker 2: major injuries, and I'm really grateful forward I was playing
Speaker 2: for the Connecticut sign I busted my ankle in practice
Speaker 2: and I was out for three months, so just relatively
Speaker 2: like short for a major surgery like an injury. But
Speaker 2: what that injury did was I was in therapy at
Speaker 2: the time. It helped me start to examine my relationship
Speaker 2: with basketball, and I like couldn't believe basketball did that
Speaker 2: to me. I was like, how could it let me down?
Speaker 2: How could it? I've given it everything in my whole
Speaker 2: life and it's been the way I've coped and like
Speaker 2: it just I felt mad at basketball, and my.
Speaker 3: Therapist was like, Oh, let's talk about this more.
Speaker 2: And so I started to examine the way I'm in
Speaker 2: relationship with basketball, and I never thought about it that way,
Speaker 2: even though.
Speaker 3: I've done it my whole life. It's like my longest
Speaker 3: relationship with my entire life.
Speaker 2: And so in that way, I I would say the
Speaker 2: last five years have really prepared me for the moment
Speaker 2: to retire now because I've done a lot of work
Speaker 2: around my identity and around sport and like restructuring my
Speaker 2: relationship to the game of basketball, and I've healed quite
Speaker 2: a bit, and I think that's what allowed me to
Speaker 2: be able to walk away and be like, I know
Speaker 2: it's time.
Speaker 3: This year.
Speaker 2: In the last couple of years, I had just been
Speaker 2: wrestling with like, all right, bodies moving slower, like I'm healing.
Speaker 2: I could see some of the you know, toxic parts
Speaker 2: of sports a little more than I could before. I'm
Speaker 2: not using it to cope in the same way I was,
Speaker 2: because I feel, you know, worthy and enough, so I'm
Speaker 2: not like doing these million tasks to like prove to
Speaker 2: myself that I'm worthy. Like I was just healing, and
Speaker 2: now I could see the sport a lot differently, and
Speaker 2: I still loved the game with all my heart, but
Speaker 2: I was able to be like, all right, it's time,
Speaker 2: and my body knows it's time. My spirit, yeah, all
Speaker 2: of you was just like it's time and that's okay.
Speaker 1: You did such a panel at our espnW summit last
Speaker 1: year with er fight Master and Nicky Hilts, talking about
Speaker 1: trans participation in sports and gender and sport, and I
Speaker 1: remember very distinctly you speaking to not only the responsibility
Speaker 1: I think of people who identify as women in being
Speaker 1: inclusive and in understanding how to embrace non binary and
Speaker 1: trans people as part of the sort of larger effort
Speaker 1: of Women for Equality, But also you spoke to how
Speaker 1: sport played such a massive role in giving you a
Speaker 1: space to feel the most yourself, which was wild because
Speaker 1: it's one of the only truly gendered spaces we have.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that, because I wonder if part
Speaker 1: of the reason you didn't need to cope using basketball
Speaker 1: as much is because you had decided I know my identity,
Speaker 1: I know who I am, and I don't need to
Speaker 1: look for that in sport, the same way as I
Speaker 1: used to.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, I forget how good of an
Speaker 2: interview you are. Yes, yes, I think that was part
Speaker 2: of it. Like I just have done so much healing
Speaker 2: and I've I don't need it, like you almost answered
Speaker 2: the question for me. I all it felt walking away,
Speaker 2: It felt like I completed, like I'm doing some handjest
Speaker 2: or such a fancy but like this full circle moment,
Speaker 2: or how people say I finished the chapter of a book,
Speaker 2: or I think I might even finish that entire book,
Speaker 2: and I think my life is going to be multiple book.
Speaker 2: And it was just like, wow, I turned the last
Speaker 2: page and it's done, and that's okay. And when you
Speaker 2: finish a really good book sometimes like you're sad because
Speaker 2: you love the characters and what it made you feel
Speaker 2: and how you belong and how you related to it,
Speaker 2: all the things. But it's okay because you finish the story.
Speaker 2: That's very much how my career feels. Is like I
Speaker 2: feel the pain and the ache, and I missed the
Speaker 2: I already missed like my teammates and those interactions, but
Speaker 2: I needed it to belong so much, and I loved
Speaker 2: that I belonged, and I loved that sport gave me,
Speaker 2: you know, an outlet for my competitive miss for my fierceness.
Speaker 2: It gave me all the coping tools to deal with
Speaker 2: family drama. It gave me, you know, tours around the world.
Speaker 2: It gave me financial stability, and I'm just out of
Speaker 2: place now with my family, with my sense of self,
Speaker 2: with my healing. Even with all the work I've done
Speaker 2: outside of sport, building my own brand and my own legacy,
Speaker 2: I would say is like that all happened through sport.
Speaker 2: But it's okay for.
Speaker 3: Me to like lay down the basketball now that the playing.
Speaker 1: Part of it right, and you get to be your
Speaker 1: full self everywhere instead of just getting to express parts
Speaker 1: of yourself on the court and relying on that space
Speaker 1: to be included. You know, you and I have spoken
Speaker 1: over a number of different years as you've been on
Speaker 1: this journey of identification and self discovery, and you began
Speaker 1: publicly identifying as nonsensegender back in twenty fifteen, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't until December of twenty twenty that you posted Instagram
Speaker 1: about your non binary trans identity and you wrote, quote,
Speaker 1: existing outside of the binary for me is freedom. I've
Speaker 1: learned that my gender doesn't just fit into these molds
Speaker 1: that keep trying to hold it down and box it in.
Speaker 1: I know that my gender will keep evolving because we
Speaker 1: change and grow and shape shift and expand I know that,
Speaker 1: as Andrew Gibson says, my pronouns haven't even been invented yet.
Speaker 1: I know that we all have masculinity and femininity inside
Speaker 1: of us, and mind show up equally and holy and fully.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you were worried at that moment that
Speaker 1: identifying as trans and using that word would affect your
Speaker 1: status as a player in the w.
Speaker 2: I mean, I yeah, I definitely did at times. I
Speaker 2: think more so with surgery I was worried, which came
Speaker 2: in the following year, right of like mixing up my
Speaker 2: years of February, but a lot of There were a
Speaker 2: ton of bills going on at that time, So I
Speaker 2: was a little bit worried about always becoming like the
Speaker 2: the poster child of like the rights fight, Like I
Speaker 2: didn't want to become like the wedge issue, like my story,
Speaker 2: my body, my person, becoming like this thing that they
Speaker 2: propped up to be like look see this person, like well,
Speaker 2: basically what all the Twitter trolls do.
Speaker 3: I didn't want that to become.
Speaker 2: Like knocking on my front door and the way that
Speaker 2: would affect me and my family. But I really struggled
Speaker 2: with going through the bubble season where I knew so
Speaker 2: in the bubble season in twenty twenty was when I
Speaker 2: knew I didn't want to have breast anymore. And I
Speaker 2: was starting to reconcile with like, oh, okay, I'm definitely
Speaker 2: like a trans person, like an umbrella term, like what
Speaker 2: does that mean? I'm gender nonconforming, I'm gender fluid, like
Speaker 2: just all of those words that like sometimes help us,
Speaker 2: sometimes make it more confusing, but I definitely knew. I
Speaker 2: was like, all right, I'm a trans person. I don't
Speaker 2: want these breasts anymore. And I really struggled with the
Speaker 2: fact like in the bubble that like that wasn't visible
Speaker 2: and I was one of the main leaders that was
Speaker 2: being seen as like a black queer woman, but wasn't
Speaker 2: being seen as like a black.
Speaker 3: Queer trans person.
Speaker 2: And that was a really hard just like mental reckoning
Speaker 2: for myself. And I wasn't quite ready or didn't know
Speaker 2: how to like say it, like hey, you guys, you
Speaker 2: know the person leading this movement is actually like a
Speaker 2: trans person. And that was a weird I don't even
Speaker 2: know how to word it, just invisible visibility that was
Speaker 2: happening for me internally, And so that December post for
Speaker 2: me was like, no, it's time to just say it
Speaker 2: out loud for myself and to just put it out
Speaker 2: into the ether that like, yes, I'm a trans person,
Speaker 2: like let's make it clear. Even though I still had
Speaker 2: breast at the time, I was kind of learning you
Speaker 2: didn't have to like, you know, like surgery doesn't make
Speaker 2: you who you are.
Speaker 3: It was me.
Speaker 2: Getting to a place where I'm just like, all right,
Speaker 2: I need to say this and put a stake in
Speaker 2: the ground for myself.
Speaker 1: Well, not long after, it was January of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: that you publicly announced that you had the gender affirming
Speaker 1: top surgery. Can you take us back at that time,
Speaker 1: how did your team, which was the Liberty, your teammates,
Speaker 1: the league, did anyone react to the to the surgery
Speaker 1: and your identity in a way that was unexpected or
Speaker 1: did you feel supported?
Speaker 2: I felt super supported, and I did a lot of
Speaker 2: the like internal advocacy work for myself, which I hope,
Speaker 2: I actually know will blaze a trail for other people
Speaker 2: because it won't be the first time let's say player X,
Speaker 2: you know, goes to Terry Jackson or to Kathy to say, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm going to have the surgery or I'm going to
Speaker 2: come out as trans like they already have done it.
Speaker 2: But I had to do a lot of that labor
Speaker 2: and talking with Terry, and she was great, and she
Speaker 2: had to get educated in a lot of ways, and
Speaker 2: her and I are super close. Terry Jackson the head
Speaker 2: of the union, And then we would get on a
Speaker 2: phone call with Kathy Angle, our commissioner, and talk about like, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm worried about I'm having this surgery.
Speaker 3: I'm worried about when I announced it.
Speaker 2: Because I want to say it publicly that I'm going
Speaker 2: to become like this big issue. So I just named
Speaker 2: it to them, and Kathy was super firming and was like,
Speaker 2: you absolutely belong in our league.
Speaker 3: This changes nothing, Like I teared up. I'm getting a
Speaker 3: little choked up right now, like thinking back on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I just hearing the commissioner of your league
Speaker 2: like affirm your identity and who you are and also
Speaker 2: say like you still belong here was really important for me.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, it was happening internally. And then I said,
Speaker 2: I need you guys to put out a statement the
Speaker 2: same day I post.
Speaker 3: So then when people look right and say, oh, this
Speaker 3: is okay.
Speaker 2: This WA player posted about Chance being Chance having comp surgery,
Speaker 2: like then they're going to live to the league and
Speaker 2: the Union and the New York Liberty and be like
Speaker 2: what does this mean? And what it means is like
Speaker 2: what Kathy's statement said, what everyone's statement said was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It was great, it was beautiful. It was like we
Speaker 3: accept Asia, there's a place for them in this league.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And it was like that leadership kind of like it
Speaker 2: didn't give room for question for people to turn it
Speaker 2: into a debate because the leadership was leading the way
Speaker 2: it should right when a player like me did come.
Speaker 1: Yep oh, and the Liberty sent out a statement using
Speaker 1: pronouns for all the players. So that wasn't about reacting,
Speaker 1: It was about being proactive to make sure that people
Speaker 1: were dealing with that professionally and respectfully as well. What
Speaker 1: do you think the biggest most common misconception is about
Speaker 1: you competing as a transperson something that you want to debunk.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't go on Twitter anymore, but that
Speaker 2: one's usually like there and I'm like, thanks you really, seev.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very affirming. Thank you exactly.
Speaker 3: I like, yeah, I love it, Thanks, appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Er fight Master on their podcast Jocular, which I'm obsessed
Speaker 1: with the other day, said they got in a fight
Speaker 1: with a woman like driving that was driving terribly and
Speaker 1: the woman was like, just because you look like a
Speaker 1: dude doesn't mean you could try, and and Er was like,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 3: That's so boring.
Speaker 1: Uh do you think? I mean? I think, first of all,
Speaker 1: great that you're not on Twitter listening to that garbage,
Speaker 1: but also great that you can't think of one that
Speaker 1: people seem to really get it And understand, and I
Speaker 1: think that's part of the W being such a progressive league.
Speaker 1: Do you think there are any changes that the league
Speaker 1: could make that would benefit other trans or non binary
Speaker 1: players in the future as the league continues to grow.
Speaker 2: Well, I think one the league and internally the un
Speaker 2: has done a good job having educational sessions, so I
Speaker 2: know that there have been players who've had questions, which
Speaker 2: there's no problem with questions or curiosities.
Speaker 3: There was some players at AU when we.
Speaker 2: Had the year I played at Athletes Unlimited, we had
Speaker 2: Chris Moser come and do an educational series and questions.
Speaker 2: Players there from the W have questions and it was
Speaker 2: interesting because I was able to like witness them because
Speaker 2: normally I'm not in the room, and I specifically when
Speaker 2: we did the WNBA trainings, I said like, I shouldn't
Speaker 2: be there because one like people should feel safe enough
Speaker 2: to just ask whatever question might feel silly or dumb
Speaker 2: or defensive even but if I'm in the room, I
Speaker 2: don't feel.
Speaker 3: Like people will ask that, right.
Speaker 2: So like the educational sessions the W's done have been
Speaker 2: really good, and I made sure to be out of
Speaker 2: that space so they could have them and have the
Speaker 2: room to ask all the things and debunk all the
Speaker 2: myths and whatever they need to say. So I think
Speaker 2: they can continue to have the educational sessions because that's
Speaker 2: always been what our league has done.
Speaker 3: From a player's perspective, is like educate ourselves.
Speaker 2: First and know that it's okay to ask questions and
Speaker 2: not know and be like, hey, I hear these some
Speaker 2: these are some of the rumors, or these are things
Speaker 2: I hear about testosterone, or these are things I hear
Speaker 2: about trans people. So I think the second thing the
Speaker 2: league can do is continue to market, not continue to
Speaker 2: shift the way we market our gender non conforming players.
Speaker 2: So I think, like there's all these marketing dollars going
Speaker 2: towards the league right now, which is so beautiful, Like
Speaker 2: the Skims campaign is amazing, Like I love love seeing
Speaker 2: can bring my teammate in and like everyone just looks
Speaker 2: like amazing.
Speaker 3: I love seeing like these.
Speaker 1: Really nailed it. It's beautiful but not sexualized and that
Speaker 1: was necessary.
Speaker 2: Yes, Like that is so much growth. So like these
Speaker 2: high end dollars, Like we're at this place in our league.
Speaker 2: We're like I'm walking in with these two rookies on
Speaker 2: my team and they're wearing like Gucci boots and I'm like,
Speaker 2: where did you guys get these? Like you guys got
Speaker 2: money now, Like this is amazing, Like you got these
Speaker 2: nil deals, You've got multiple pair of these boots, Like
Speaker 2: you know you're not on the same rookie salary I
Speaker 2: was on.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 2: And I still think our league also always struggles with
Speaker 2: not marketing the people who are masculine, and so you
Speaker 2: kind of saw the like Natasha Clouds and Kirsten Bells
Speaker 2: talk about like what about a Walkser campaign, Like are
Speaker 2: we yes market our fem people who are beautiful? But
Speaker 2: like there's such a spectrum of gender expression in our league, right,
Speaker 2: and we know gender expression has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: your sexual orientation or your gender identity.
Speaker 3: It is just literally how you express yourself in your gender.
Speaker 3: And we have people who.
Speaker 2: Express themselves across the board in a beautiful, like amazing,
Speaker 2: gorgeous even secon see like competitive, like eclectic way. We've
Speaker 2: seen the tunnel Fits evolve in such a really really
Speaker 2: cool way. So like are we marketing? I always I
Speaker 2: talked about Simone Augustus on that panel, like marketing the
Speaker 2: Simone Augustus of our era, Like are we learning, is
Speaker 2: the WNBA learning how they missed out on the simone?
Speaker 2: So like is Courtney Williams getting the marketing deals she
Speaker 2: should get? Now?
Speaker 3: Are we thinking of the Natasha cloud?
Speaker 1: And how much is that the league versus the sponsors?
Speaker 1: And how do you get sponsors to step up and
Speaker 1: be in a space and understand that there's this big
Speaker 1: market that's also looking to be like, to be seen,
Speaker 1: to be represented. Yes, we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 1: Plenty more from Lesia Clarendon right after this. For decades
Speaker 1: there were trans folks competing in sports and they abided
Speaker 1: by all the different rules and policies across different levels
Speaker 1: and age groups and states. There were really no issues
Speaker 1: or controversies. And then in recent years trans participation started
Speaker 1: to be politicized and laws were added to exclude trans
Speaker 1: athletes or public shaming, you know, forfeiting matches, lawsuits, all
Speaker 1: this stuff, and this push really it relies on perpetuating
Speaker 1: a lie that trans athletes are dominant and dangerous, that
Speaker 1: it's unfair, that it's threatening to women's sports, which is
Speaker 1: particularly frustrating when it's people saying that who could not
Speaker 1: give a shit about any other aspect of women's sports
Speaker 1: that needs things like resources and safety and everything else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so how do we get people to see past that
Speaker 1: propaganda and fear mongering to the reality of the situation,
Speaker 1: which in some cases is one trans female athlete in
Speaker 1: an entire state that they are making a law around,
Speaker 1: for in Utah, that they are making a law around
Speaker 1: only one of them participating in women's sports. Like, how
Speaker 1: do we how do we You're so smart, how do
Speaker 1: we get people to stop believing this garbage?
Speaker 3: I know?
Speaker 2: I mean I think you have to ask to the
Speaker 2: question of the heart of like where the people are
Speaker 2: coming from? Do they want to be educated on this topic?
Speaker 2: Like education is one I think is really important. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of disinformation out there, which is different from misinformation, right,
Speaker 2: like people are like intentionally maliciously. The right is like
Speaker 2: putting out information to make you feel like trans people
Speaker 2: are taking over the sport and so kind of debunking now,
Speaker 2: which I know there's orgs like the Women's Sports Foundation,
Speaker 2: and there's people like Chris Moser and a lot of
Speaker 2: other trans athletes who do do a ton of like
Speaker 2: educational videos when topics come up. So, I mean, some
Speaker 2: ways I'm at a loss for words because I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's just not frankly true. And then I love the
Speaker 2: story of myself. That's like, I'm five foot nine, I've
Speaker 2: played in the WMA for ten years. I came out
Speaker 2: as trans in twenty one. I've played three more seasons,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, I had a really solid
Speaker 2: career before I came out as trans. I was already
Speaker 2: a All star, Like I didn't start dunking all of
Speaker 2: a sudden.
Speaker 3: That might have been cool.
Speaker 2: You know, it kind of hurts your hands when you do,
Speaker 2: Like it's like, yeah, we don't become superhuman. And so
Speaker 2: I think my question is always at the heart of
Speaker 2: like we know these people exist, and one is like
Speaker 2: starting with our humanity, like do you When I'm in
Speaker 2: a conversation with the person, it's like, do you even
Speaker 2: believe I should exist?
Speaker 3: And it's answers no.
Speaker 2: Then I'm like, Okay, I don't like have a good
Speaker 2: day because I'm not going to debate or talk to
Speaker 2: you about it if you believe and no chance people
Speaker 2: are real and you're just like wait, okay, I keep
Speaker 2: hearing this stuff Like then that's where like we can
Speaker 2: have the conversation when we can talk about more of
Speaker 2: the education and talk about the misinformation and disinformation out there.
Speaker 2: But like, frankly, if you don't believe like trans people
Speaker 2: or people should have a right to abortion or like
Speaker 2: to my body, then I'm like you right, Like we're
Speaker 2: trying to break these people out and like take our
Speaker 2: country back, and that's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to it's hard to get anywhere if
Speaker 1: you can't start with the basic premise of like respect, right, yes,
Speaker 1: respect for who people are. Yeah, PABULATORI did a really
Speaker 1: fantastic interview actually with the one trans female athlete in
Speaker 1: Ohio that they were making laws that we're going to
Speaker 1: affect just her. So I highly recommend people go find
Speaker 1: that episode. But I think giving specifics and giving real
Speaker 1: people behind these stories is one place to start. But yeah,
Speaker 1: if anyone has brilliant ideas on how to get people
Speaker 1: to stop repeating the lies and the fear mongering that's
Speaker 1: behind all this, that would be great. And I'm not
Speaker 1: speaking to the politicians. I think it's quite clear that
Speaker 1: their intent is to put women in their place and
Speaker 1: to try to get back to some sort of Christo
Speaker 1: fascist idea of what people's lives should look like and
Speaker 1: force them into those binaries. But I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: regular people might still be able to be suited into
Speaker 1: understanding the nuances of the situation. Okay, I want to
Speaker 1: talk about your WNB experience because we mentioned that you
Speaker 1: played for half the league, which means you've got a
Speaker 1: lot of perspective to offer. Can you tell like some
Speaker 1: of the biggest differences among the many franchises you played for.
Speaker 1: Is there something that stands out to you about culture,
Speaker 1: or resources, or attitude or or anything that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: You've been to all these places and here's what I
Speaker 1: came away with.
Speaker 2: So I've played for all three ownership models, which is
Speaker 2: really fascinating. So we have the casino ownership model, which
Speaker 2: is like Vegas and Connecticut, so I played for Connecticut.
Speaker 2: We have the independent ownership model with Kelly Loffler in Atlanta,
Speaker 2: and I played for the NBA affiliated Indiana is where
Speaker 2: I was drafted, and also Minnesota, so in New York
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 3: A lot of the I would say.
Speaker 2: NBA and casino were the best resource, which makes sense
Speaker 2: because independent ownership was a lot tougher. I think the
Speaker 2: Seattle Storm have done a good job of that for
Speaker 2: years as independent owned owned teams, but playing in Indiana
Speaker 2: where I was drafted, where we just had a practice
Speaker 2: cord and there was so much equality from the beginning
Speaker 2: of how we were treated. I was at New York
Speaker 2: at the tail end of just when they finished building
Speaker 2: that locker, when I was done playing for that team,
Speaker 2: and just saw like the level of like wealth and
Speaker 2: money and resources that was being poured into like the
Speaker 2: women's side of the game. And so I've also played
Speaker 2: for a decade, so just seeing how from twenty thirteen
Speaker 2: to twenty four or the money's changed and the investment
Speaker 2: has changed, has been really fascinating. The Minnesota Links were
Speaker 2: one of my favorite teams to play for because they
Speaker 2: have a culture of winning and like Cheryl Reeve is
Speaker 2: a coach that like is gonna demand when you step
Speaker 2: on the court that there's a level to which you
Speaker 2: play with And I think you're seeing that in the
Speaker 2: finals right now, Like you and I remember stepping on
Speaker 2: her core and there's like a little bit of fear.
Speaker 2: You're just like, oh shit, like a fight, Like you're
Speaker 2: gonna get your ass handed to you if you step
Speaker 2: on that core. And it's very reminiscent to me of
Speaker 2: Lynn Dunn, and that's who coached me my rookie year,
Speaker 2: and she was so hard on me. And I think
Speaker 2: like Lyndun, Stephanie White, and Cheryl Reeve are like three
Speaker 2: of the best coaches that I've ever played for. And
Speaker 2: it's their attention to detail, their ability to build relationships
Speaker 2: with players, and there are standards that they set across
Speaker 2: the board. They don't care who you are, Like Lyn
Speaker 2: Dunn did not care if itels Tamika Catchings or Leisiah Clarendon.
Speaker 2: Cheryl Reeve does not care if it's an a FISA
Speaker 2: Collier or her rookie Peelee, Like she's gonna hold them
Speaker 2: to the exact same standard of like you when you're
Speaker 2: out here, like you better when you still up between
Speaker 2: these lines, you better show the up or get off
Speaker 2: my court. Like I like when that had said that,
Speaker 2: when there's times where if you messed up my rookie year,
Speaker 2: there was no time to keep going over things, she
Speaker 2: would literally say get off the court next, and then
Speaker 2: I would be like, oh my god, like don't cry,
Speaker 2: don't try, don't cry, stuff off, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: Set the expectation for sure, you mentioned that you were
Speaker 1: leaving the Liberty right when they were building the locker room,
Speaker 1: and obviously the Liberty has changed a ton in recent years.
Speaker 1: But it felt like there was a strange ending for
Speaker 1: you. You had played a lot of minutes, you had been
Speaker 1: a big participant, and then when the Liberty waved you
Speaker 1: you were playing. You know, you'd played like three minutes
Speaker 1: in that first couple of games. It felt like there
Speaker 1: was some either unfinished business or some sadness around that
Speaker 1: that felt like bigger than just the general sadness of
Speaker 1: being waived. Can you speak to that.
Speaker 2: It's something I might write in the book one day.
Speaker 2: It might just be something I like go. But there
Speaker 2: was definitely some internal what's the word I'm looking for,
Speaker 2: like internal issues that I was having with the New
Speaker 2: York Liberty. And it's no shocker that I was waived,
Speaker 2: or it should be a shock when I was on
Speaker 2: a guaranteed contract. I played great for them in the
Speaker 2: bubble season as a leader. I signed it to your deal,
Speaker 2: and then I'm waived that season after clearly being squashed
Speaker 2: to the end of the bench. So I think you
Speaker 2: can put some of the pieces together. I'm not ready
Speaker 2: to talk about it publicly, and it might be something
Speaker 2: I write about one day, but it definitely was like
Speaker 2: it ended with a dirty, nasty taste in my mouth
Speaker 2: and was not treated very well, specifically that by the
Speaker 2: basketball and GM side of it. The front office of
Speaker 2: the New York Liberty is still phenomenal. I think Sandy's
Speaker 2: phenomenal as a coach there. They've cleared out the house there,
Speaker 2: and Kiah Clark's amazing. I still keep in touch with
Speaker 2: quite a few people at the New York Liberty, but
Speaker 2: it was a very specific aspect of it on the
Speaker 2: basketball side.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear that. I know you mentioned how
Speaker 1: important it was for Katy Engeler to affirm you and
Speaker 1: your identity when you announced you had top surgery. That
Speaker 1: feels like a contrast a little bit to what we've
Speaker 1: seen with players discussing receiving the hateful and racist messages
Speaker 1: this season. Kathy sort of dropped the ball when asked
Speaker 1: about that topic on a CNBC show. And I know
Speaker 1: people aren't monolists. Kathy can do a lot of great
Speaker 1: things and also sort of struggle to answer or speak
Speaker 1: to some of these issues that players are talking about. Now,
Speaker 1: Why do you think there was a disconnect on that
Speaker 1: issue though, between what the players were experienced and maybe
Speaker 1: Kathy was either aware of or able to speak to.
Speaker 2: I still think in this moment in time, it's much
Speaker 2: easier now to talk about LGBT inclusion than to.
Speaker 3: Talk about racism, hands down.
Speaker 2: So I think it's Kathy struggling with and our holy
Speaker 2: grappling with like Caitlin Clark's coming into the league, the
Speaker 2: fan base, and how do we talk about this nuanced
Speaker 2: conversation of race and like all of these things, Like
Speaker 2: the podcast could be just on this topic alone, like
Speaker 2: we could.
Speaker 3: Start one just to like get into all of these topics.
Speaker 2: So I think that's just Kathy struggling, frankly as a
Speaker 2: white woman to talk about race, and maybe some fear
Speaker 2: about the backlash of the fan base or Caitlyn's you know,
Speaker 2: fan base from Iowa.
Speaker 3: So I'm not sure there, But I.
Speaker 2: Know I've seen the ways that people will step up
Speaker 2: for queerness but really still struggle with blackness. And that's
Speaker 2: again where someone like me sets up the intersections of
Speaker 2: those identities and it's sucks to see. And I think
Speaker 2: it's just the players definitely expected more from her. But
Speaker 2: I think it's that just not being ready or willing
Speaker 2: or also equipped to talk about racism in a way
Speaker 2: of like I basically major in sociology at CALL, and
Speaker 2: people always like, how are you going to use that?
Speaker 3: And it's like, that's literally what my career has come
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 2: And so like when you're looking at the w and
Speaker 2: covering it, it's like you do almost need like to
Speaker 2: at least take a class on intersectionality because there's so
Speaker 2: many factors happening.
Speaker 3: It's not as easy to just show up and cover it.
Speaker 2: Like a men's hockey league, right, you maybe have some
Speaker 2: international like topics there about, but it's not you're not
Speaker 2: just talking about predominantly mostly a bunch of white guys,
Speaker 2: a bunch of white dis guys, right.
Speaker 3: And you so like when you look at our league
Speaker 3: and you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Race and gender and sexuality, right and at a moment
Speaker 2: in time when an election is coming and a star
Speaker 2: player who is white, who people are saying has basically
Speaker 2: saved our league, which we know is not true, which
Speaker 2: is also coming out of time where the growth of
Speaker 2: our league has been like bursting at the seams. And
Speaker 2: also like the players are so damn excited for our
Speaker 2: young players to come in. Like, once a player comes
Speaker 2: into our league, like there ares, that's what our league does.
Speaker 2: It's like you're a part of us now. So we're
Speaker 2: rallying up everybody to be good, Like it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: who you are, Angel Caitlin, like in all the rookies,
Speaker 2: We're like, you're ours, and now you're a part of
Speaker 2: a legacy that says we speak up for social justice right,
Speaker 2: like we don't just ignore these issues. And so I
Speaker 2: think we're seeing some of that all swirling in the
Speaker 2: players and in the zyguys.
Speaker 3: Absolutely this season. Yeah, And I would have hoped Kathy
Speaker 3: could have done a better job of putting us in
Speaker 3: the ground.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely agree, And I think in the position
Speaker 1: that she's in, it's necessary to do the work to
Speaker 1: be able to do that, you know, in a very
Speaker 1: honest moment, I'll tell you a bunch of years ago,
Speaker 1: I remember I was talking to my buddy Scoop Jackson,
Speaker 1: who's a longtime basketball writer ESPN guy, and I was
Speaker 1: telling him that someone had messaged me and said, how
Speaker 1: come you wear LGBTQ plus ally shirts like love Winds
Speaker 1: and Rainbow stuff and you'll you never wear anything for
Speaker 1: like Black History Month, and I said, I feel like
Speaker 1: I would be like made fun of or accused of appropriating,
Speaker 1: or it doesn't feel comfortable in the same way to
Speaker 1: be an ally to that group. But I don't know
Speaker 1: why I am an ally, but I don't. It doesn't
Speaker 1: feel the same. And I remember talking to Scoop about
Speaker 1: it and saying, why does it feel like allyship for
Speaker 1: LGBTQIA plus comes easily and is embraced, and allyship sometimes
Speaker 1: in terms of race is so much more complicated and fraught.
Speaker 1: And one of the things he said that was sort
Speaker 1: of a wake up for me and for a lot
Speaker 1: of other white women and white people I think, is
Speaker 1: that there's an expectation of a cert amount of work
Speaker 1: having been done that oftentimes isn't so if you come
Speaker 1: to the space and hope that they'll be happy that
Speaker 1: you're an ally, but you don't show that you really
Speaker 1: get it, there's a frustration there of how are we
Speaker 1: still here? And I felt then years later in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: when everything happened with George Floyd, that was writ large right,
Speaker 1: It was yeah, we've been saying this, and yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't get to just read white fragility now and then
Speaker 1: be like, oh, got it. My bad. You should have
Speaker 1: been here, you should have known this, you should have
Speaker 1: asked about this, This should have mattered to you before now.
Speaker 1: And I think for a lot of white people who
Speaker 1: think they're doing their best like that sucks to feel like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I haven't been doing my best. There's a lot more
Speaker 1: I should have done, and that I think doesn't happen
Speaker 1: quite as much in the queer community right. And it's
Speaker 1: not a simple explanation, but I love that you said that,
Speaker 1: and I do think that's maybe why Kathy felt like
Speaker 1: this is easy ze breezy to say you're included and
Speaker 1: we love you, and struggles a little bit to speak
Speaker 1: to the nuance of the race issues that the league
Speaker 1: is dealing with. There is so much intersectionality that that
Speaker 1: has dominated so much of the conversation around the league
Speaker 1: this year, and it's necessary and helpful and it's moving
Speaker 1: us forward, but it also at times has kept us
Speaker 1: from like straight up talking about basketball, which has been amazing. Yes,
Speaker 1: I do want to make sure we talk about the
Speaker 1: WNBA Finals while you're here too, because you have been
Speaker 1: playing in these games against these teams and players as
Speaker 1: recently as just a couple of weeks ago, so you
Speaker 1: are uniquely positioned to talk to us about some of this.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned you played for Cheryl Reeve. Game one
Speaker 1: and two, the Links were playing catchup almost from the jump.
Speaker 1: If you're in the huddle Wednesday, what do you think
Speaker 1: coach Reeve is telling her team before tip off about
Speaker 1: not allowing the Liberty to get off to a hot
Speaker 1: start in game three and start that again.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, one, they've watched a ton of film
Speaker 2: on why they had the bad starts and what they did,
Speaker 2: so they better come out of the cannon like protecting
Speaker 2: home court. So I know she's you know, probably already
Speaker 2: used a lot of the cuss words, but she's also
Speaker 2: will build you new ones. Yeah, mitning new ones is like,
Speaker 2: let's can go like we're not playing around. We're at
Speaker 2: home now, like we need to handle business, you know.
Speaker 2: And the Links usually are a team that gets out
Speaker 2: to good start, so it was a little shocking to
Speaker 2: see how much New York jumped on them. But New
Speaker 2: York's at home, so like that was to be expected,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't expecting the seventeen point lead but she's
Speaker 2: definitely telling them like pick at the up, or you're
Speaker 2: coming out or calling time out, like we can't. We
Speaker 2: can't keep doing that and expect to win a championship,
Speaker 2: right because we're playing a really good team.
Speaker 1: You keep mentioning that the series has shifts that will
Speaker 1: make a big difference. We're going to be in Minneapolis
Speaker 1: at the Target Center for games three and four. What's
Speaker 1: the biggest difference you see with the Links now? Getting
Speaker 1: to play on home court?
Speaker 2: I mean, getting that home court advantage, in the crowd
Speaker 2: behind you, sleeping in your own bed, all the things
Speaker 2: we know about the comforts of being home that offers
Speaker 2: you that the crowd is behind you, do you have
Speaker 2: a little more swag in your step when you're in
Speaker 2: your own space? Like these are two of the best
Speaker 2: fan bases in the league, hands down, Target Center is
Speaker 2: an amazing.
Speaker 3: Place to play, So I think that's a big one.
Speaker 2: It also puts it's the liberty of like when you're
Speaker 2: playing against a home crowd, like silencing them is the
Speaker 2: best feeling ever. So I'm curious to see how I
Speaker 2: think the liberty.
Speaker 3: Are going to come out.
Speaker 2: They've got to be thinking still Game three, right, like
Speaker 2: we have to still one in order to get back
Speaker 2: to Barclays, and so their whole mission is like game
Speaker 2: three is ours. They still the first one at our house.
Speaker 2: We got to still the first one at their house.
Speaker 1: I was listening to a Touch More with Sue Bert
Speaker 1: and Megan Rappino, Great podcasts, and they were talking about
Speaker 1: how lucky we all are to be watching Ifisa Collier
Speaker 1: and Brianna Stewart and Asia Wilson and all these players
Speaker 1: at the same time. They're all sort of peaking around
Speaker 1: the same time, and there hasn't really been that moment
Speaker 1: in w's history before. You had some folks like Maya
Speaker 1: Moore and DT at the same time, but they were
Speaker 1: six or seven years between those two. These are some
Speaker 1: really really spectacular players, all playing at the top of
Speaker 1: their game around the same time. What's been your reaction
Speaker 1: to playing against people like Brianna and Fi and Asia
Speaker 1: and also just watching them from afar Oh.
Speaker 2: My reaction to playing against them is, yeah, it's fun, right,
Speaker 2: Like it's so much fun. Sometimes, Like something happened in
Speaker 2: the game yesterday and I was like, yepes, do we
Speaker 2: did that to me? Like it's like you're trying to
Speaker 2: make an entry pass from the wing and you're like,
Speaker 2: I could totally make this, and Stewie just like jumps
Speaker 2: up and steals it, and you're like, what the fuck,
Speaker 2: Like you're so long, Like how did you do that?
Speaker 2: Like so kind of reminiscing, I'm like, yep, I've been there,
Speaker 2: Like sorry to teach im, he'd even Courtney whoever turned
Speaker 2: it over. Seeing Asia just as like we're growing up
Speaker 2: or we're getting to watch yeah, like the Mayas, the
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan's, Like the level of talent and the way
Speaker 2: what I love is the way everyone knows how good
Speaker 2: these players are and they're scheming to stop them and
Speaker 2: yet they can't stop them. Like that's the greatness we're
Speaker 2: getting to watch. And I didn't know, honestly, Nefisa was
Speaker 2: gonna be that good, Like she was drafted to Minnesota.
Speaker 2: I played with her and Sil for one year, so
Speaker 2: Sil was more the main player. Fee was solid. She
Speaker 2: wasn't putting the ball on the floor quite as well.
Speaker 2: Her three wasn't as consistent. Hadn't yet perfected that turnaround
Speaker 2: off of one foot and so.
Speaker 1: The feet away, the feet away, I call it the
Speaker 1: feet away jumper.
Speaker 2: So watching fee, like just develop into like an MVP
Speaker 2: candidate has made me so proud and so happy for
Speaker 2: her because she's a phenomenal human being and just like, oh,
Speaker 2: you're you're like MVP good, Like I didn't know you
Speaker 2: were going to be that good.
Speaker 3: Like when so left, it was like, oh, Sophia was like, oh,
Speaker 3: y'all didn't know. I'm letting you know.
Speaker 2: And then I played with John Quell at Connecticut and
Speaker 2: just her ability to shoot the three, her ability to
Speaker 2: get inside, her length, and so the thing I've been
Speaker 2: saying when I watched like now that I can just
Speaker 2: be a fan too, is I'm like, it's not fair.
Speaker 2: Like I literally just keep saying it's not fair. Are
Speaker 2: you guys watching this? Like my wife's get tired in there.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Stewie is the five right now. She just
Speaker 3: brought the ball up the court. This is not fair.
Speaker 1: That's all I think about is like when I was
Speaker 1: in high school, I was six feet tall and I
Speaker 1: was a center. Yes, like sometimes I was a power
Speaker 1: forward in AAU, I was a forward, but like I
Speaker 1: would write now I would be a point guard. I
Speaker 1: would have to have insane ball handling skills and shoots they're.
Speaker 3: Like what, no, Yes, like that's the era why you've
Speaker 3: been doing this?
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like the unicorn era of the NBA has
Speaker 1: hit the WNBA full force right now and it's all
Speaker 1: in unicorns.
Speaker 2: Aye Wilson is coming off of Staggers and like, what, No,
Speaker 2: you don't do that, like stay down there so we
Speaker 2: can figure out.
Speaker 3: How to double team you and do something.
Speaker 2: She's like, no, I'm coming out with Staggers and now
Speaker 2: I put the ball on the floor.
Speaker 3: Like these big people are.
Speaker 1: Like less basketball though. That's my favorite. That's that's I
Speaker 1: love watching bigs that can move and shoot and handle
Speaker 1: the ball like, oh my god. It's just it's just
Speaker 1: the series has been so fun because there are so
Speaker 1: many players like that and it's so cool to watch.
Speaker 1: And also I am not at all wanting to be
Speaker 1: a coach in this series. No all how to top
Speaker 1: those unicorns.
Speaker 3: It's fun.
Speaker 2: It's been really interesting on the defensive side, like on
Speaker 2: Minnesota's gone to their really small lineup to counter because
Speaker 2: like Sabrina is just getting threes in transition and it's.
Speaker 3: Like, I played it. I know it's like, okay, guard.
Speaker 2: Your but what do you do when Stewie brings the
Speaker 2: ball down and the point guard goes to stop Stewie
Speaker 2: because that's our job. But then he's a post player,
Speaker 2: gonna get out to Sabrina on the wing in time.
Speaker 2: Like no, So yeah, that's what the link said. So
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's go small so we can at least
Speaker 2: keep a body on a body so fun.
Speaker 1: We're so looking forward to game three. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a blast. I've kept you too long. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming on. I know you said you
Speaker 1: don't want people to ask you what's next, so I won't.
Speaker 1: I'll just say that you are one of the most
Speaker 1: thoughtful and brilliant people I know, so I'm dying to
Speaker 1: see where you're going to direct that brain power and
Speaker 1: that influence and all of that. So let us know
Speaker 1: when you figure it out, I will give us a call.
Speaker 1: We'll have you back. Thank you, thanks again Talisia for
Speaker 1: joining us. We got to pay the bills. When we
Speaker 1: come back. We toast another great speech writer. Welcome back, Slices.
Speaker 1: So yesterday we told you to go back in the
Speaker 1: archives to watch Teresa Weatherspoon's Naysmith Hall of Fame Anduction speech,
Speaker 1: and now we've got another classic. On Sunday, Simone Augustus
Speaker 1: marked her induction with a great speech of her own
Speaker 1: well Slam poem. Actually, yep, that's right. Here's a bit
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 4: Home is where the heart is, and where the heart is,
Speaker 4: it grows. I want to tell you a story about
Speaker 4: a girl from the Bayou who cooked up a good
Speaker 4: pot of gumbo, sprinkle in a little pistol Pete, Doctor
Speaker 4: j Teresa Edwards, Alan Ivison, and many more. They all
Speaker 4: helped me develop the game that you all adored.
Speaker 1: Okay, go watch the rest of Simone's poem. It's only
Speaker 1: three minutes and every word is perfect. We'll link to
Speaker 1: it in our show notes. That's our first good game
Speaker 1: play of the day, because, as you know, we always
Speaker 1: love that you're listening, but we want you to get
Speaker 1: in the game every day. So go watch Simone's induction
Speaker 1: speech and go check out the documentary Will and Harper
Speaker 1: on Netflix. It features Will Ferrell and his close friend
Speaker 1: of thirty years, Harper Steele, who recently came out as
Speaker 1: a trans woman, and the two decide that they are
Speaker 1: going to embark on a cross country road trip to
Speaker 1: process this new stage of their relationship and to let Harper,
Speaker 1: who's always loved solo road trips across America, to feel
Speaker 1: safe going to the dive bars and truck stops and
Speaker 1: restaurants that she always loved. Lesia talked about the importance
Speaker 1: of being able to ask questions, to learn and understand,
Speaker 1: and this documentary does a beautiful job of showing that.
Speaker 1: There's also a really funny and moving bit at the
Speaker 1: end that's definitely worth sticking around for. Will and Harper.
Speaker 1: Go check it out. We always love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Hit us up on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot
Speaker 1: com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two
Speaker 1: two o four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe,
Speaker 1: rate and review. It's easy watch good answers to stupid questions,
Speaker 1: rating a billion t out of five Birds of a
Speaker 1: Feather review. Now. I know we like to say no
Speaker 1: dumb questions around here, but there are stupid ones, like
Speaker 1: when Billie Eilish was asked by an LA Times reporter
Speaker 1: if she feels threatened by Chapel Rohan, Charlie XCX or
Speaker 1: Sabrina Carpenter, what are we doing here? Can you even
Speaker 1: imagine Harry Styles getting asked if he feels threatened by
Speaker 1: I don't know ed Cheran or Bruto Mars or the Weekend.
Speaker 1: Of course not, because we don't do that shit to guys.
Speaker 1: And don't be fooled. This is not just some silly
Speaker 1: girl fights garbage. This is a tool of the patriarchy
Speaker 1: to keep women in their place, to make them think
Speaker 1: there's only room for one, there's only one seat at
Speaker 1: the table. It doesn't just happen in Hollywood. It happens
Speaker 1: all over the place. And the only way to stop
Speaker 1: these stupid ping questions and shout down that ideology is
Speaker 1: to give great baking answers like Billie eilishes, Are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? She responded, I'm so happy for these bitches.
Speaker 1: It's a crazy world. When you get to the level
Speaker 1: they're experiencing right now and they're doing great, fans are
Speaker 1: drawn to them because they're fing awesome. End quote. Yes, Billy,
Speaker 1: lift as you rise, make room at the table, build
Speaker 1: a new skin table, and stop, for the love of God,
Speaker 1: asking those stupid questions. Now it's your turn, rate and review.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, slices, see you tomorrow. Good game, Lesia
Speaker 1: Good Game, simonk you right wing out lets who use
Speaker 1: trans folks to push bullshit agendas. Good Game with Sarah
Speaker 1: Spain is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with
Speaker 1: Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzie
Speaker 1: and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder,
Speaker 1: Britney Martinez, Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell. Production assistant from
Speaker 1: Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain